Dan & Phil Part 92: japhan 2.0

[alittledizzy]

I think for me, the idea of it is less punishment and more boundaries. If it were the reason, since this is pure speculation, I'd look at it less from the perspective of 'he's doing this to us' and more 'he's doing this for himself.'

I agree with this (and your overall point in your last post), don't get me wrong, but he's not just doing this for himself, he's also doing it to himself. And while Dan and Phil are obviously allowed to set boundaries and don't have to react the way we want them to... that's also true for us. We have boundaries as supporters too and I think a lot of us feel like those have been overstepped recently. And we obviously also don't have to react the way they want us to. So in the end I don't really know where this leaves us and them as viewers/creators but also customers/a business in the long run.

I agree with all of that. I do think some of the issues people are angry about have been addressed (people were upset Dan only showed up to promote merch, so Dan established clearly and communicated directly to us that he wouldn't be doing merch - problem solved, he won't be only appearing to promote things) but I think the anger is lingering even after the situation has been resolved and that colors everything else, which aligns with what you're saying about boundaries crossed. I know there are other issues that they could communicate more on. I just think they're probably aware of how badly their attempts to communicate always go and are wary that anything they say would just add fuel to the fire.

And to be honest? I think it might. Because they're bad at this. In a way that I don't think it's easy to just look at and go 'well we did it wrong last time, lets do it different now' and fix. They try things and somehow always try the wrong thing. Like: I think Phil genuinely thought that because people were asking nonstop about a mukbang that giving an answer was the best move. Most of us could have told him it wasn't a good idea to say that how and when he did. And it wasn't, unless he was prepared to sit down and have a heart to heart on why we weren't getting it, preferably with Dan also there. But I don't think they're ever gonna be comfortable doing that. I think I've just conditioned myself to believe that them communicating things we don't want to hear will only ever upset people and it wouldn't shock me if they felt the same way and that's why Phil tried alone and Dan, after realizing his tumblr post about the merch didn't make anyone less angry, sat it out this time.

[liola]

See I get that, like I read your post and I genuinely think that might actually be right...And it just doesn't change my feelings of anger and mostly frustration. Because to me Dan's post about merch arrived too late and badly timed with the uproar of people upset about it, and I honestly think he would have not said anything about it if it wasn't for people complaining about it. Maybe this is a sad way of seeing it, but the reality is that I've lost trust in him specifically.

And it's true that maybe they've conditioned themselves in thinking whatever they try it'll go wrong so they might as well not do anyrhing but to me that's probably worse because like.. where's the improvement? Where's the care? They CAN learn, it's not a magic talent and either you have it or you don't, it needs a bit of willpower and listening to what people are genuinely suggesting, they don't even have to pay for a focus group, they have that information free and widely spread. Maybe I'm cynic but it just.. it makes them look sloppy is what I'm saying.

I just feel like at this point they're not even trying to soften the hard edges of people's feelings, and I fear that they hope that way people will forget about it and they can start anew without realizing that we're at the point where it just won't happen. And I'd love to tell them that, but i can't. Like I ALMOST understand that fan who wrote to Dan's manager (except it was completely pointless because that kind of manager has no control over Dan's communication but I understand the feeling of wanting your opinion to be heard)

[flarequake]

Well, there isn’t entirely a transparent relationship both ways. There’s a lot of love expressed loudly and also some complaints while they tell us what they want to when they decide and we like it or don’t. Not to be too blunt about it, but in a nutshell I guess

Btw, just missed the last two posts, going to read them now. Edit - all I have to add is I thought there was more understanding and happiness, and less anger, after Dan’s tumblr post. Hmm. Hard to remember properly. I was glad to see it, I know that, and hear where he’s coming from, though I guess I do remember irritation that he’d only posted it because of the backlash.

I think they could learn, listen and try, just seems they don’t whether they don’t want to, don’t think it would matter or don’t even see much of what we say. It’s frustrating not being able to have conversations with them.

[blahblahblah8]

Being gifted an invitation to a huge movie premier is an amazing opportunity, I find it really strange that he hasn't acknowledge that he was there at all. Even if he doesn't want to post a pic, isn't the idea behind gifting "influencers" things that they will post about and thus promote it to their followers? even if they're not obligated to I feel that its an expectation. And I don't believe he only wants to post things when he has merch to sell, because he did share a lot from Japan. But if he's not posting rn bec he doesn't want any reaction about the mukbang, well I guess he'll avoid an immediate reaction but I honestly think it's worse for the long run. People won't forget, there's gonna be lingering feelings of resentment. I'm not even angry with him, maybe he is just looking out for his mental health. But its not the right way to go about this. He said last year that mukbangs and joint traditions would still happen. People wouldn't be mad it him for not having that content if he communicated why. Regardless, I hope he had a good time and enjoyed the movie. Also, I'm glad we actually got a picture of Phil's full look (I wish it wasn't blurry but he still looks good).

[Becky.rigby]

I am a bit confused at the moment what Dans job description is, because I thought it was a youtube entertainer, but is anyone actually feeling entertained at the moment by Dan? I just feel like we are going round in circles all the the time. I am learning to take a step back slightly. I am actually annoyed that Dan didn't post anything about the premier, it was his followers that enabled him to have experiences like that after all, and for what? Why does he deserve to go when he posted 1 video this year? I do understand how much he must of gone through to upload that video, but to not do liveshows anymore, he rarely tweets and posts instagram stories once in a blue moon. I wish i could meet him to ask what he is playing at to be honest.

[flarequake]

Aside from BIG, I wouldn’t call Dan a definite youtuber at the moment, although it seemed like he’d return sooner than this after he posted it, still by now we know he’s working on something else. Entertainment-in-the-works I suppose.

[knq]

It's funny that this discussion is happening in the JAPHAN 2.0 titled thread. We've seen activity from Dan in the phandom when he was (1) on holiday, even though social media is kind of his work, and (2) dropping merch. Those situations are so different I can't formulate a theory behind Dan's presence at all.

I think that's helped most of the upset go over my head, though. Having no idea what to expect has made me feel less things about dnp as influencers, good or bad.

[lefthandedism]

Let the bants continue into the holidays, and let us all get at least one thing we wish for!

Be sure your suggestions are in here as we look forward to soon choosing a name for the next thread.

[autumnhearth]

I am a bit confused at the moment what Dans job description is, because I thought it was a youtube entertainer, but is anyone actually feeling entertained at the moment by Dan? I just feel like we are going round in circles all the the time. I am learning to take a step back slightly. I am actually annoyed that Dan didn't post anything about the premier, it was his followers that enabled him to have experiences like that after all, and for what? Why does he deserve to go when he posted 1 video this year? I do understand how much he must of gone through to upload that video, but to not do liveshows anymore, he rarely tweets and posts instagram stories once in a blue moon. I wish i could meet him to ask what he is playing at to be honest.

Dan mentioned in the muckbang and I think one of the Tumblr answer time posts that he no longer saw himself as a (full-time) YouTuber, but rather as an entertainer.

Nope I’m wrong about the second, he said not to worry, that not much was changing and that he wasn’t going anywhere anytime soon. I swear there was something somewhere. It wouldn’t have been during the II watch along on Twitter would it have?

Re-reading about why they chose the “giving the people what they want” theme is still uncomfortable, but this is very appropriate, about creator audience relationships:

‘should creators be strictly authentic to themselves and just make what they are inspired to make, or should they do what the followers that support them want? should tv show writers listen to the fandoms? should bands not change their sound for the next album in case people don’t like it? when people grow and change with time and want to do new things, how does that change the relationship with their audience that love them for one specific creation or point in time? is there a middle ground? does this question need to have a definitive answer?’

To answer your question Daniel, no you didn’t give me what I wanted, you just left me feeling very ashamed. I’d take a travel show or renovation series over II any day. And yet, I can’t blame him because that creator audience relationship probably felt very fucked up to him over the last decade.

I’m sure there is a middle ground, but this doesn’t feel like a happy one,

[knq]

Dan mentioned in the muckbang and I think one of the Tumblr answer time posts that he no longer saw himself as a (full-time) YouTuber, but rather as an entertainer.

Nope I’m wrong about the second, he said not to worry, that not much was changing and that he wasn’t going anywhere anytime soon. I swear there was something somewhere. It wouldn’t have been during the II watch along on Twitter would it have?

Re-reading about why they chose the “giving the people what they want” theme is still uncomfortable, but this is very appropriate, about creator audience relationships:

‘should creators be strictly authentic to themselves and just make what they are inspired to make, or should they do what the followers that support them want? should tv show writers listen to the fandoms? should bands not change their sound for the next album in case people don’t like it? when people grow and change with time and want to do new things, how does that change the relationship with their audience that love them for one specific creation or point in time? is there a middle ground? does this question need to have a definitive answer?’

To answer your question Daniel, no you didn’t give me what I wanted, you just left me feeling very ashamed. I’d take a travel show or renovation series over II any day. And yet, I can’t blame him because that creator audience relationship probably felt very fucked up to him over the last decade.

I’m sure there is a middle ground, but this doesn’t feel like a happy one,

Oh my god the "giving the people what they want" theme still makes me want to claw my eyes out. Honestly, I will take this era over that one any day. Like, I miss joint content, of course I do. But Phil seems to be happy making what he's making, and from what little we see Dan seems to be happy not making what he's not making. And neither of them is claiming to know what nefarious things "we," the several millions of people following them, all want or think.

I'll take it tbh. I'll take anything just get II away from me--he called it a social experiment he called it a fucking sasdjsaklda

[flarequake]

That’s a good point, did Dan have more thoughts, if not more to say, on how he feels about his audience? The whole ‘giving you what you want’ never sat that well with me. Of course they were never going to please us all at once and their desires and needs don’t always match ours. Some things they did were my favourites, some less so, but I didn’t want them to put themselves out for us, especially not if they then had to take a huge break or make massive changes because it had all got too much and they hadn’t said. I don’t think the show really answered Dan’s questions, though it explored them somewhat, or had any of the layers he talked about. It was a fun show, but anyway we discussed all that at the time and I don’t remember all of it.

It’s a shame they not only cut the bit in the Brighton shows about doing separate things in future, then left it until the end of the year to say it, obviously people would have had feelings about it earlier and it might have overshadowed the tour and all the fun, but anyway we’re still here debating the way they have and haven’t told us things.

I don’t suppose we’re going to hear much more of their thoughts very soon, especially from Dan unless he is planning to when he returns, but we have to wait and see. At this point, though, that’s what I’d like. To know how Dan feels, what he thinks and whether we’re still his audience. Reading that tumblr post with parts like ‘we don’t care about these questions right now, we just want to please you’. Well, now that’s long since finished and you’re in the future where you have all the time to do what you like, Dan. Is it a future with us in it? F- this, it’s sad and exhausting.

[Amiaw]

No dan?

[hello9217]

Obviously dan might have just been somewhere else in the airport but if not then damn are they killing every single expectation I had of them this year.

A little weird that the past two years he has gone to IOM but the one year I think it would be certain he is there is the year he is not. Although the past years he has been in the closet and hated going back home and only went for about three days so maybe he wants to spend more time with his family. And this is all assuming he wasn’t somewhere else

[alittledizzy]

Actually footage!! Omg this person is my HERO.

[rizzo]

tbf it's really early. there's a number of reasons phil could be flying out before dan. or they've changed up their plans/visiting order.

(i'm all for complaining about audience interaction, but not so much personal schedules )

Actually footage!! Omg this person is my HERO.

OMFG BLESSED CONTENT. I feel alive... renewed... refreshed.

[madzilla84]

Finally!! That’s awesome! Nobel peace prize for OP. They look so excited, bless. (And very cool to see the pic that ended up on insta being taken.)

[obsessivelymoody]

Actually footage!! Omg this person is my HERO.

AMAZING AHH I'M HAPPY TO SEE THEM IN VIDEO TOGETHER AT THE PREMIERE!!

Anyone able to decode Dan's shirt?

Also Dan is wearing the shoes Phil shows off in this sleepless night video (which I think makes them the shows he wore to the BONCAS? I can't remember lol), and idk. That pleases me immensely. (also wondering...Phil's feet are like a size bigger than Dan's...did he like, stuff them I don't understand. This is really me wondering how the fuck Phil jammed his feet into Dan's shoes in GTPWTW. I Will Not Rest Until I Know.)

[alittledizzy]

Actually footage!! Omg this person is my HERO.

AMAZING AHH I'M HAPPY TO SEE THEM IN VIDEO TOGETHER AT THE PREMIERE!!

Anyone able to decode Dan's shirt?

Also Dan is wearing the shoes Phil shows off in this sleepless night video (which I think makes them the shows he wore to the BONCAS? I can't remember lol), and idk. That pleases me immensely. (also wondering...Phil's feet are like a size bigger than Dan's...did he like, stuff them I don't understand. This is really me wondering how the fuck Phil jammed his feet into Dan's shoes in GTPWTW. I Will Not Rest Until I Know.)

Okay well now I'm gonna be wondering that, too.

Also I can't stop seeing how tight Dan's pants are since rizzo pointed it out to me. Seriously, they look like leggings, how did he manage that whole movie in those??

[CapriciousCrab]

They're like a glittery version of his skinny jeans lol

[obsessivelymoody]

I...yep I saw a gif and all I could think about now is how Dan's pants are skin tight.

Anyway for anyone curious, someone id'd Dan's shirt. What a dork, I love it.

[poweroftriangles]

That answer reads so differently now. The tone is almost bitter. And there is no "if" this is the last thing Dan and Phil do. It hurts!

I just miss him a lot. I want to hear from him in any way, shape or form at this point. I'm not opposed to a comedy tour/show. I know this desperation is what everyone is dunking on right now but I just miss the inside of his head.

And yay for footage!

[stufflizloves]

Actually footage!! Omg this person is my HERO.

AMAZING AHH I'M HAPPY TO SEE THEM IN VIDEO TOGETHER AT THE PREMIERE!!

Anyone able to decode Dan's shirt?

Also Dan is wearing the shoes Phil shows off in this sleepless night video (which I think makes them the shows he wore to the BONCAS? I can't remember lol), and idk. That pleases me immensely. (also wondering...Phil's feet are like a size bigger than Dan's...did he like, stuff them I don't understand. This is really me wondering how the fuck Phil jammed his feet into Dan's shoes in GTPWTW. I Will Not Rest Until I Know.)

i am now FASCINATED by this shoe theory because if you watch the last bit of dan walking away after taking phil’s picture (the last panel in the gif quartet, if you will), he’s walking a little funny which at first i thought was my mind just being a little crude. but then if you look more closely, are the shoes slipping a little bit?? am i nuts?? it would drive me INSANE to have shoes that didn’t fit flopping & sliding around all night.

and yeah, those pants are PAINTED on. i supposed the shiny fabric also contributes to the tight appearance. but yeah...couldn’t eat many pancakes in those bad boys

[obsessivelymoody]

Actually footage!! Omg this person is my HERO.

AMAZING AHH I'M HAPPY TO SEE THEM IN VIDEO TOGETHER AT THE PREMIERE!!

Anyone able to decode Dan's shirt?

Also Dan is wearing the shoes Phil shows off in this sleepless night video (which I think makes them the shows he wore to the BONCAS? I can't remember lol), and idk. That pleases me immensely. (also wondering...Phil's feet are like a size bigger than Dan's...did he like, stuff them I don't understand. This is really me wondering how the fuck Phil jammed his feet into Dan's shoes in GTPWTW. I Will Not Rest Until I Know.)

i am now FASCINATED by this shoe theory because if you watch the last bit of dan walking away after taking phil’s picture (the last panel in the gif quartet, if you will), he’s walking a little funny which at first i thought was my mind just being a little crude. but then if you look more closely, are the shoes slipping a little bit?? am i nuts?? it would drive me INSANE to have shoes that didn’t fit flopping & sliding around all night.

and yeah, those pants are PAINTED on. i supposed the shiny fabric also contributes to the tight appearance. but yeah...couldn’t eat many pancakes in those bad boys

Okay now you've pointed it out I went back to look at a gif set and it TOTALLY looks like hes walking funny. Kind of like he's kicking the shoes back onto his feet? Idk it's just not how he normally walks imo.

If anyone else is curious, this is the gifset I was looking at.

[Phantasy]

Love the look, but they gotta stop ordering suits online—would love to see them in proper bespoke suits fitted by a tailor.
(Though Dan’s lifelong panache for ill fitting pants is a somewhat endearing part of his personality)

[liola]

Phil's suit is so!! Shiny!! And purple!!! Shiny (?) TIGHT black shirt!! God to have a HD picture of it I was ROBBED

Meanwhile he looks so soft in that airport pic he looks amazing in black but even white/light grey is so good on him.n what a man