Dan & Phil Part 92: japhan 2.0

[flarequake]

I think Phil is just half a shoe size bigger than Dan. Does look a bit awkward there and also they didn’t know they were being filmed until they went over to her, though cameras were everywhere so maybe less awkward. Nice to see them and the full effect of the suits. Excuse me, Daniel, for those trousers are tight and your butt cute. Also them going over and saying hi, good boys.

Idk or care how they schedule or spend Christmas, they have their plans and reasons. Just still a little sad that Dan had nothing from the premiere to show us.

Oh good, top of page with this of all things.

[Birdie]

That’s a good point, did Dan have more thoughts, if not more to say, on how he feels about his audience? The whole ‘giving you what you want’ never sat that well with me.

Agreed. It always felt like "Here, this is what you wanted even though we didn't really want to do it, are you happy now?", especially from Dan. And in hindsight it kind of feels like the beginning of the end. (Although a lot of people already pointed out it was exactly that even while it happened.) It was a good, fun show, even though I only got to watch it on Amazon Prime, not live, but it makes me uncomfortable knowing what it represents so I don't think I would wanna rewatch it.

At this point, though, that’s what I’d like. To know how Dan feels, what he thinks and whether we’re still his audience.

Oh, well said. I think this is the main reason I'm upset really, because Dan keeps withdrawing and making it very clear that he wants to see a lot less of us but he doesn't communicate that clearly. It just becomes so obvious when he's not even sharing pictures from movie premiers anymore, I mean, that's hardly a private, personal setting. It really doesn't help that he comes back whenever he needs to sell us something, it's just a complete mess at this point.

Ideal scenario for me would be a video or a blog post, whatever he's more comfortable with, explaining why this is happening and what he's thinking about us, his career, his plans moving forward etc.. And if that was the last thing he ever shared with us it would be okay because at least we'd all know where we're at and hopefully that he's happy with the decisions he's made. But not knowing what's even going on is just exhausting on so many levels to a point where I wish I could stop caring about them and move on to other fandoms. But that ain't happening, lol.

Loving the shoe theories by the way, there's something very cute about him wearing too big shoes because he liked them too much not to.

[knq]

The shoe theory reminded me of the notes Phil posted once. One of them, I think Dan, was upset because of his shoes. Something like that? I forget. It was cute. Anyone remember?

It’s sweet seeing Dan playing photographer for Phil. And Phil was so bouncy and shiny.

[heartsopenminds]

Agreed. It always felt like "Here, this is what you wanted even though we didn't really want to do it, are you happy now?", especially from Dan. And in hindsight it kind of feels like the beginning of the end. (Although a lot of people already pointed out it was exactly that even while it happened.) It was a good, fun show, even though I only got to watch it on Amazon Prime, not live, but it makes me uncomfortable knowing what it represents so I don't think I would wanna rewatch it.

Hi all, just delurking here to make a couple of points about this. I only came into the phandom after watching BIG, and as is usual for me with these things, ended up falling into a major obsession and watching/reading everything I could find about dnp to try and catch up.

Quite early on I read those tumblr answers and watched GTPWTW, and it seemed to me like there was such an 'end of an era' vibe about what they were putting out at the end of last year, which was then reinforced by DML2....I guess I'm just surprised that people still have had the hope that DAPG would come back or there would be mukbangs or whatever.

Maybe it's because I've never been around during a time of regular joint videos so the thought of having that seems alien to me, idk. I do enjoy them on screen together more than apart so that makes me sad, but I think I had that mourning for the end of their working relationship pretty soon after starting to watch them, and so was watching their joint content with the mindset of it being something that would always be historic rather than current.

[madzilla84]

I wish I’d known II was truly The End Of Dan And Phil at the time; I’d have made more of an effort to see it multiple times etc. Maybe that’s good life advice; assume every time could be the last. I just always thought there’d be more to come, you know? (Since that’s what they said last Xmas.)

@Katka that would be the dream!! I’d love to know what he’s thinking and why he’s been the way he has. Even if I didn’t like the answer, it’d be good to just know. But I don’t think it’s too likely. And I know exactly what you mean about wanting to move on - it’s been making me sad and mad a lot this year and yet I find myself unable to just walk away. Damn them lol

[flarequake]

Looking back on it, it’s easier to read a few things as it being an end of an era, but they didn’t say that, Dan said that it was a last chance to see them on tour which is different from joint videos etc and made sense because touring is a lot and they’d already done one, plus ii being so big wasn’t their first intention.

I don’t really look back on it as if they, particularly Dan, didn’t want to do it. The song line ‘we don’t care if it hurts or not’ sticks out to me as a cute line, but also why? Why electric-shock yourselves? That’s on you plonkers. I mean, I’d hug them better if they asked, but I didn’t love seeing them in pain. So I hope nothing else was so painful yet they couldn’t tell us because while it was their job and had certain commitments, it was a job they were choosing to do and I thought they were happy with. That business every year of ‘do you really deserve the Pinof bloopers?’ really was irritating too. Daniel, just tell us what you want.

I’m not sure I think Dan is definitely trying to get rid of us as his audience. My thoughts on that came from reading people’s thoughts and I’ve had some more since. I think he does want us to be around for his new project and then I don’t know if he realises how this long absence is affecting some of us. I wonder if he’s going along having a break, or a quieter life permanently just with some interaction for projects, and partly putting himself first when he doesn’t seem to acknowledge our feelings much except, for example, in that tumblr post

He seems pretty chilled and happy lately and especially in his interview with Ben, also at Pride, it doesn’t sit with me that him seeming happy there is so different from him being happy to make content until last year. Obviously he’s probably happier now without it cos he’s relaxed, etc, but he’s the same person. Also the same person who said ‘my audience thinks they know me. And they do’.

This is why it would be great to hear from him cos I find that our feelings and frustrations, partly due to some guessing or interpreting of where he’s at and what he thinks and feels, don’t match up with how we then see him where he’s the same old Dan, maybe now happier and more relaxed, but also sometimes still happy to interact. He was happy to share a lot from the Japan holiday, it turned out not to be too personal a thing to share and as he’s said before, when they go outside and do interesting things they’ll share some. But it is still confusing without some insight from him.

[autumnhearth]

I can’t see Dan sharing what he thinks of his audience, especially not in a video. And I’m not assuming it’s all negative, just complicated and varied at times.

Yeah it’s an ill fitted suit, the jacket looks too tight in the shoulders as well, giving him a hunched look. Love Phil’s suit up close and the shirt does seem to be shimmering on the bottom half, maybe it’s a fade/gradient. Those gold and black shoes are so cheap looking, but I suppose it is hard to find gaudy gold loafers on short notice.

I took the ‘we don’t care if it hurts or not’ to mean more than the shocking, but who knows. I like the ‘once upon a time there was a boy named Dan’ part and Phil’s diss track, but not that refrain. Hitting you with my grumpy opinions in the morning.

I hope they both have a lovely holiday.

[flarequake]

That’s a good point, there could be some more personal or complicated feelings there and if anything was very negative then he probably wouldn’t want to say and hurt people. Hearing his thoughts generally could include ‘still appreciate you guys’ or something that gives us a clue, though. Still, if he did have anything that’s bothered him, it would be better for him to tell us rather than be cryptic or ignore it and then us. It’s annoying, though, that in the past he’d say ‘stop spamming ‘soft and neat’ everywhere’ and then people still did with a ‘lol, Dan said not to do this’ so

Yeah, I guess that line could mean more than that bit of physical pain, but it’s hard to read into it without knowing what might have actually bothered them. Only they know details, how much, how they dealt with it or what they’d prefer to see from us, etc. The line ‘thanks for watching and for all of the memes, it’s been terrible for our self-esteem’ sounds lighter and a sweet shared joke, though there’s a hint that of course they do have feelings and maybe not the thickest skins. I generally love that song and the diss track, best part of the show.

Heck, Dan got three videos out of being memed, he did work himself up to dramatic tears once, but it didn’t seem actually terrible. Tumblr tag videos also showed weirdness a bit close to the wire and Phil noped out when it came to the skin fic, but they chose to make these things (also those managed to upset an artist almost every time).

Lol, hard to find gaudy gold shoes. I wonder if it is that hard or he didn’t take much time for it. Shoes can be tricky and having them be uncomfortable is awful. He doesn’t wear loafers often, though, that’s different when you’re used to laces and zips. Mustn’t forget the zips.

[lefthandedism]

We'll be opening the new thread name poll soon, so get your last-minute ideas in now!

[lefthandedism]

Vot for new thread name here!

[alittledizzy]

Based on her ig stories, it looks like Cornelia flew in today.

Wonder if Dan was with her?

[parallel]

I really wish I knew what Dan was thinking. How much of this is on purpose, and how much of this is just poor communication/planning/not thinking things out? And how does he actually feel about his audience? I understand he might not share the answers to those publicly because people would feel hurt, but I'm really curious as to how he feels about this.

It's just not a fun time, honestly. The Phandom is definitely far more tense than I've ever seen it. The joint content drought plus Dan's behaviour is causing fans to fall out with each other and with Deppy.

And, honestly, if Dan and Phil don't want their audience (which would be fine), there are a million better ways to disband their audience than this.

[Phantasy]

Based on her ig stories, it looks like Cornelia flew in today.

Wonder if Dan was with her?

That’s what he did last year, right? Spent a few days before Christmas in IoM, then to Reading for the 25th?

[Birdie]

I can’t see Dan sharing what he thinks of his audience, especially not in a video. And I’m not assuming it’s all negative, just complicated and varied at times.

I don't see it either, I just wish he would. But I also think if he truly doesn't want to then he shouldn't. And I'm pretty sure that's the case. And I'm not gonna lie, the phandom has often not taken his criticism of us very well either and I don't wanna gloss over that. There were times when Dan criticised phandom behaviour because it made him uncomfortable and the general reaction just wasn't good. The times I have seen him called rude for expressing some discontent with how fans behaved towards him... That wasn't cool. And obviously that might also play into all of this in the long run. But we won't know for sure if he doesn't tell us and my gut feeling is he won't tell us.

There's about ten years of fandom history at this point and ten years of Dan and Phil's history together and also of their history with us as a fandom/customers/whatever you want to call it and that's all intertwined, none of it works without the rest of it really. So I totally get why they (Dan especially) want more privacy because I'll be honest with you, if ten years of my history - professional but also private - were on display like his is, I'd be freaking out and maybe I'd also try to close myself off more.

This isn't going anywhere, it's just a thought I had right now that I might want to explore more but I'll stop rambling now.

[autumnhearth]

Phil’s liveshow is up! I hadn’t caught it and am really enjoying his energy.

[itasca00]

Despite the one or two widely unpopular parts, I thought this liveshow was rather enjoyable overall! Here are my highlights:

• [1:01] Phil thinks immortality would be pretty boring because you would eventually run out of new things to do. He equates this with maxing out all of the skills you can in The Sims.
• [2:16] Phil shows us (a very festive) Norman Cam.
• [6:40] NEWS STORY OF THE WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK: A girl sent a CV to her mom about why she should be allowed to get a dog, and she was allowed to get a dog. Phil says he did this when he was younger, except he wrote, “Can I have a dog?” on every line of a thirty page notebook. This tactic did not work for Phil.
• [9:29] Phil is asked why he doesn’t get a dog now. He tells a story about getting his hair cut in his apartment recently and tracking a small bit of hair into a communal area in his apartment complex. One of his neighbors saw it and complained to the landlord that Dan and Phil had a pet in their apartment because apparently the neighbor is highly allergic to dogs. Side note: I find it insane that Dan and Phil get their hair cut in their apartment exactly because their hair will inevitably get everywhere.
• [10:28] Phil gives some hints about what will be in his next video. He says he’s going to be attempting something that he hasn’t attempted before, and it’s going to be a bit festive too. At [26:51], Phil gives another hint saying that his tree with tinsel will be in the video again.
• [12:49] Recently, Phil tweeted (below) about receiving a notification that a package he had ordered had been left with one of his neighbors. Phil resolves the cliffhanger from this tweet saying that he did nothing for a day, and the neighbor ended up leaving the package by his door.
• [14:23] Before this liveshow, Phil attempted to water his Christmas tree. He ended up pouring a bunch of water onto the floor, and he feared electrocution by some illuminated Christmas presents he had under the tree.
• [17:11] When talking about someone mixing up salt and sugar, Phil mentions baking with Dan:

  P: “That sounds like something you and Dan would do when baking.” I know, midnightmocha. I’m surprised we never did that, actually, in all our time that we baked.

• [27:50] For the gaming segment this week, Phil plays The Blockbuster Party Game made by Big Potato Games. At [30:25], he says, “so fetch,” as a reference to the movie Mean Girls.
• [31:40] Phil drops a bomb on the liveshow:

  P: “Okay, but mukbang?” Don’t think I’m gonna do a mukbang. I feel like the mukbang was our attempt at a mukbang. *laughs* I don’t think I want it to be a series. Um, but I did enjoy ordering Dominos, so that was--that was a nice experience.

• [32:00] Phil says that Gremlins is his favorite Christmas movie, but then he backtracks and says that it’s kind of tied with Home Alone.
• [33:33] Phil takes a BuzzFeed quiz to determine what his future career is going to be based on the Christmas he’s planning. The quiz determines that he’s going to be a vet.
• [40:44] Phil says that he ordered some delivery groceries the other day. Included in his (small) order was some mint shower gel, and they ended up delivering mint sauce by mistake. Phil is somewhat incredulous.

[George]

I keep thinking how in the few first II shows they told us things are gonna change and then dropped that part when everyone freaked out. Well, they had tickets to sell... They knew this new era was coming but our reaction was worse than they thought, it doesn't look like they learned from that. I'm not sure what the lesson was thought. I actually hope they'd have kept that part in, at least it was honest communication.

Are they worried we don't buy merch if they give us answers? Well, looks like we don't buy merch because they don't give us answers. A lose-lose situation.

[alittledizzy]

I keep thinking how in the few first II shows they told us things are gonna change and then dropped that part when everyone freaked out. Well, they had tickets to sell... They knew this new era was coming but our reaction was worse than they thought, it doesn't look like they learned from that. I'm not sure what the lesson was thought. I actually hope they'd have kept that part in, at least it was honest communication.

Are they worried we don't buy merch if they give us answers? Well, looks like we don't buy merch because they don't give us answers. A lose-lose situation.

I think they've given us the answers that they know. Phil gave us an answer about the mukbang, Dan gave us an answer about merch - that he's not doing it, which should negate anyone's fear that in the future Dan will only appear to promote merch. We know this was his last merch drop. He told us that.

I don't think they ever think they're lying when they tell us something (that mukbang might be a series, that nothing would change) - I think they just change their mind. Which is frustrating as fuck and yes they do often wait too long to communicate things and don't do it as fully as we'd like, but I can't see malicious intent there. I think they're just figuring their own life out, not trying to manipulate us.

[flarequake]

They do seem to let us hope for ages before answering, it’s hard to know if they just didn’t see questions earlier and couldn’t possibly have told us once they’d changed their minds.

Edit - somehow I didn’t see you’d said that. I did read it all, well, thought I had. I hope there might be less of this going forward, it’s so wearing to not be sure why they do things or don’t get it. Wishful thinking tbh especially if they are honestly just changing half the things they told us. Then again we know about it all now.

[Amiaw]

It seems like 2020 will be the year where dnp really are done with joint ventures and it’s sad but it’s also freeing.

With personal projects I find that I often need Phil to soften Dan’s presence in videos so for dan I’m curious but I’m not invested.

I’ll stick around for Phil because I genuinely like his content and his live shows and I hope there are exciting things to look forward to.

[Amiaw]

I wanted to change the subject for a minute because I saw this tweet yesterday and I’m wondering how that’s going to affect them going forward as it sounds like creators weren’t given much notice

[flarequake]

Wow, good info, I do like Mr TDM, but jfc, youtube. Talk about slow communication using this emoji far too much lately. I’ve got 2 vids up and I’m glad I’ve been so slow cos that’s a bit more work than anyone wants to do on Saturday before Christmas. Thanks for sharing it. Oh, Phil, and Dan, did you know or having to do this now

[knq]

I thought their COPPA emails awhile back were pretty clear on that, if not on what ‘made for kids’ actually was. Maybe they didn’t highlight the deadline enough? Anyway, it’s like 4 clicks to set a global setting for every video on a channel.

[Phanshy]

The COPPA thing was making big news at least 3 months ago, not sure why he's only been informed now, the ruling comes in to affect January, I watch a lot of Doll and Toy videos who are gonna be very negatively affected, It isn't just for content aimed at kids (kid's being defined as under 13) is any content which could be attractive to kids, which is ridiculous my friends son is obsessed with trains and watches videos of trains going through the countryside or videos about driving trains which are not aimed at kids so basically anything could be classified as kid attractive.

That being said I don't think it will affect their own channels at all because they don't have anything that a reasonable person would think kids would be attracted to like animation, toys or collectables and gaming.
The gaming channel is a different matter even though a lot of the videos aren't family friendly because of the language used by Dan it could still fall foul of the rules because kids would be attracted to the thumbnail or title, whether the content is appropriate doesn't matter.
Videos like Minecraft, Fortnite, Sonic(even the .xex horror games) Mario, Pokemon, could be affected lots of others to. There are a lot of great videos explaining it but a lot is still unknown people have just grabbed on to the scary headline about being fined $42,000 per video in violation and have marked their whole channel for kids.

Things could be really bad in the new year a lot of channels will probably lose the ability to have comments on videos and previous comments on old videos deleted, no community tab, no ability to live stream, no targeted adverts, your videos not being recommended and not showing in anyone's feed even if they're subscribed. YouTube are the ones who did the wrong thing by collecting kid's data but have passed the buck to creators it's really troubling especially for small creators.

[flarequake]

If they had an email months ago telling them this deadline then idk why he needed to give them a sudden heads up. He did a good video about it, if it’s not made just for kids then that should be fine, whatever they actually want to watch. Also no kids are registered on YouTube cos they all ticked they’re 13+ (so no one can prove kids watch a channel and YouTubers might not know unless they’ve met their audience), it’s YouTube not implementing kid accounts with checks like kids’ sites do eg Neopets. YouTube got in trouble cos they told people they know younger kids watch.