Dan & Phil Part 93: Fomosexual

Our two favourite full time internet nerds who never go outside!
Locked
User avatar
Catallena
classy cat lady
classy cat lady
Posts: 3192
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:56 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Decided to give Phil some money by buying a Constellation shirt because as a Aquarius/Pisces cusp special snowflake child, it's half correct. :ribena:
Image
Twitter *•.(★).•* Tumblr
User avatar
autumnhearth
senpai
Posts: 1726
Joined: Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:44 am
Pronouns: she/her
Location: OH, USA

rizzo wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:12 pm A few days ago, I wanted to ask if people thought Dan has maybe resolved to not tweet in 2020, but... didn't want to spoil the mood. That question still stands though. I wonder what goals/resolutions he's decided on in 2020. What will his social media use be like? His work? His breaks? Will he run the marathon or any race for that matter (maybe start smaller at a 10k)? My mind races with thoughts for Dan tbh.

Also this paragraph really encompasses my thoughts on the issue of Dan generally right now:
alittledizzy wrote: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:44 pm So here's the Dan empathy: I feel deeply, deeply relieved for him. Because he is someone who has had an unhealthy, manipulative, guilt-drenched, mentally harmful relationship with social media since the age of 18. He never got a chance to develop into an adult without the internet following his every step and constantly checking him, praising him, berating him, arguing with him, making him both a villain and a saint at the same time. I'm glad that now as an adult he's realizing that it's possible and alright for him to do that, not out of avoidance of us for one particular issue, not because he's fully immersed in one work project, but as a general rule of life - no matter how much we hate it. I feel like in the past two years he has grown so much as an independent person that doesn't base every decision in his life on what our reaction will be or out of fear of us. And so has Phil! I enjoy more what he shares now knowing that he's in a better place, that he doesn't feel like his life is in stasis because of all the things he's too scared to admit - than I did when Dan was doing agitated obviously anxious liveshows and regularly lashing out at us. I'm happy for him and proud of him if social media is now something he can comfortable use when he wants to use and close out of when he needs to close out of.
As a shameless Dannie, I struggle almost daily (way to be dramatic, amirite?) with his absence.

But I also understand him. I understand him wanting to step away from social media and get away from reporting on everything he does. And we can claim that this is his job until the cows come home, but whether we like to admit it or not, his job is unique and unhealthy. Nobody should have to report on what they're doing constantly. Everyone should be allowed to walk away and do things for themselves and themselves alone and also to take the time to learn that lesson and what it means. Him telling us he's stepping away from... telling us things... the irony there is almost laughable.

I mean just look at last year, when he vaguely alluded to his marathon with that "montage" insta story? And that didn't work out. Now apply that to everything he does in life. That every time he makes a decision or mentions something, he's haunted by it, reminded of it, bugged about it. That's no way to live. Him saying "hey guys, I'm taking a social media break", means that if he so much as retweets something, he's gonna get at least 50 "0mG I thought you were taking a BREAK!!!111 p0st a VIDEO!" responses.

So anyway. I'm sad and I'll probably post a conflicting thought one day out of anger and frustration, but I get it. I miss the guy and hope that the new year means... some kind of content. But I'm also trying really hard to come to terms with that not being the case, because the disappointment is a hard fall for me.
Boom there it is. Wanted to make sure that got over onto this page as the thread was moving slowly for a week and then went fast in the past 24 hrs. I think that Dan becoming an adult with an over invested audience only amplifies this issue:
which is a tweet that Dan liked yesterday and really made ‘Trying to Live My Truth’ click for me. (Ah, just noticed that it’s a tiny thread!) I’ve shared some thoughts about this on Tumblr, how a created personality ties in with branding, Phil’s tarot reading mentioning Dan shedding his armor, Dan questioning if he even has a personality and the cocoon metaphor in the muckbang, but I would love to hear other’s thoughts.
Megancita75
ar·tic·u·late
Posts: 403
Joined: Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:43 pm
Pronouns: she/her
Location: USA

The author of that tweet Dan liked, about the personas closeted queer people take on, wrote an extended piece on Medium that I found deeply interesting. I'm going to quote a long section of it here:

Coming out of the closet is considered a monumental step in the life of a queer person. It’s lauded as a pivotal juncture where you throw off the shackles of your deceit and step into your true self. But in reality, coming out of the closet is just the first clumsy leap in a formidable, punishing obstacle course. For me, coming out felt like finally admitting that I had lived my entire life pretending to be someone else as a mechanism to survive, and now suddenly confronted with the opportunity to be my actual self, I had my first ever experience of stage fright, the irony ringing mirthlessly in my ears.

In truth, I didn't know who my actual self was. And how could I? The barely out version of me was a collection of fragments, pieces of me which I’d left to atrophy rammed up against pieces I’d contorted into unsightly shapes to protect myself. I’d closed the door of the closet only to be confronted with another door, this time with an elaborate lock, emblazoned “finding yourself”.

This task, of finding ourselves, is a massive, existential and deeply difficult exercise that all queer people share but seldom collectively acknowledge. It’s a task that leads many of us down treacherous paths, chasing other forms of escapism that mirror the closet, drinking or drugging ourselves into other forms of suspended reality where we can pretend again. It’s a task that involves enormous emotional and spiritual upheaval, which many of us are forced to do alone, with scant resources, or little in the form of mentorship. It’s a task that takes time, that demands we be patient and compassionate with ourselves, that presents countless obstacles and potholes. Sometimes the task feels like a burden, the weight of which breeds resentment. Other times it’s a joy, as we untwist ourselves from the contortions we’d previously held and relax into who we are.

Additionally, and frustratingly, it’s a task often not recognised or validated by others in our life. Our family, our friends, are often not aware that life after the closet isn’t the simple relinquishing of our previous self and the effortless taking up of a new-and-improved queer persona, but rather a complex and arduous process of unlearning the often toxic ways in which we have dealt with negative feelings about ourselves and our place in the world. They see the closet door wide open and don't understand how we could still be hurting. Our struggle becomes invisible.

I do feel like there were so many topics in BIG that Dan touched on that really are telling about the complexity of this for him. And for him, the persona of a closeted persona is also compounded by having a public personal to contend with as well. When I've heard him say "I don't know what I'm doing" in regards to his career, etc., I think it is absolute truth, and coming out maybe has led to a sense of being lost that the above excerpt speaks to. Privacy seems absolutely crucial to some of this identify building or self rediscovery. Regardless, I absolutely think it is likely that Dan (and to a different extent, Phil) is still figuring out who the heck he is in this PCOU and that the timeline for that is going to be pretty lengthy. For his sake, I do hope queer peers have reached out to him in DMs to talk about life after coming out.
User avatar
flarequake
not an airport stalker
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:55 pm
Pronouns: She/her
Location: London, UK

I have thoughts on this that I need to gather, brain isn’t quite in yet. Meanwhile, I came upon this again and it’s adorable
User avatar
Birdie
blobfish
Posts: 650
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:22 pm
Pronouns: they/them

I don't want to get into this again, we've been negative for long enough now. I just wanna remind everyone that most of us are unhappy with Dan's lack of communication, not with his absence per se. Knowing the reasons for his absence won't change that.

And while I think this topic is important and I empathise with it a lot, Dan is also not the first/only queer creator on Youtube who had to go through the exact same process. I can't put my finger on it but there's something I don't like about how his queer identity and his coming out process are analysed over and over again while others are not, like his is somehow more important. (And I don't think people should be analysing anyone's queer identity too much, because it's very personal. No one here is doing that though, just something I wanted to add.)

There's a whole lot to be said about how usually queer white men get treated as more important for the lgbtia community than people of colour or queer women and I feel like it's at play here too (looking at how mainstream media reacted to Dan's coming out video) but I don't want to open this can of worms on this forum because I don't think anyone here is doing that. It's just something that popped into my head when I tried to figure out what exactly I think about Dan's coming out story and how it gets analysed over and over.

I literally have no idea what I'm trying to say with this post but I think maybe it's just that Dan obviously wants a break and he's taking it and while I really think he should have told us at this point I'm too tired to care anymore, I'll just let him rest now, he'll be back or he won't, it's his choice. And also I think if he wants to talk to us about his coming out process and what was maybe hard about it, he will eventually and I think people need to stop trying to analyse it without his input.
User avatar
parallel
phabergé
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:23 pm
Pronouns: she/her

Phil updated his YouTube story with some never-have-I-ever stuff! There are some short, nice anecdotes :)
User avatar
CapriciousCrab
sad dimple
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:45 pm
Pronouns: She/her

Are there notifications for the YouTube stories and I'm just too stupid to figure it out? Or do you just have to check at random to see if someones posted one?

Anyway- it's nice to see his face and I'm looking forward to the liveshow tomorrow! Any guesses on what he's going to talk about?
User avatar
Susanisnotafish
flower crown
Posts: 700
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:39 am
Pronouns: She/her
Location: Illinois, USA

CapriciousCrab wrote: Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:29 pm Are there notifications for the YouTube stories and I'm just too stupid to figure it out? Or do you just have to check at random to see if someones posted one?

Anyway- it's nice to see his face and I'm looking forward to the liveshow tomorrow! Any guesses on what he's going to talk about?
For me the Youtube stories appear in my subscriptions, but I don’t get a notification.
"Rub those freckles all over me!" --Daniel Howell
User avatar
madzilla84
eclipse shirt
Posts: 379
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 8:27 pm
Pronouns: she/her

There aren’t notifications - drives me mad! I guess technically he *does* have more followers on there than on insta, but still!!

I hope he’ll talk a bit about Xmas/new year; what he got up to for new year and what Xmas presents he got and gave! And a Norman update, of course. Hopefully he hasn’t been totally swarmed by shrimp lol
blackbirddan.tumblr.com
User avatar
knq
lava lamp
Posts: 956
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:42 pm
Pronouns: she/her
Location: USA

YT stories:
1. I love that Phil doesn’t even admit to neighbor spying, he just goes straight into his most amusing neighbor ‘spying’ anecdote.

2. Phil’s definition of being ‘fired’ is as confusing as his method of cooking pasta.
User avatar
Catallena
classy cat lady
classy cat lady
Posts: 3192
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:56 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Love how Phil dives straight into an anecdote about a neighbor watching adult videos with the windows open as if this exchange doesn't exist.
The lack of notifications for YouTube Stories drives me insane because I often miss them when they're uploaded which sucks for compilation making. Fuck them in general for compilation making actually, they're hard to get the footage for unlike Instastories. Someone gimme a handy Chrome extension for YTStories plz.
Image
Twitter *•.(★).•* Tumblr
User avatar
flarequake
not an airport stalker
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:55 pm
Pronouns: She/her
Location: London, UK

Phil’s so pretty in those photos, that’s my main thought. Also he’s naughty, but wcyd.
User avatar
CapriciousCrab
sad dimple
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:45 pm
Pronouns: She/her

I love how he admits to watching his neighbor watch porn without actually saying the words. How very Phil-like :lol:
User avatar
BrothAndBrine
delia smith
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2020 3:24 am
Pronouns: she/her

:lilheart: I like how he quickly slipped a little "we" in there at the very end of the off-color neighbor YouTube story. These stories are exceptionally nice for Phil if he isn't uploading a certain week. Or month. I mean, who knows. As for Dan...if he uploads, he uploads; it is his choice. He lives his life and his viewers live theirs and no great way to announce a break/retirement/hiatus. Like the song goes, can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself. I bet the revenue/money he gets doesn't help in his decision to sit and talk to the camera or even just make a black screen video, lol.

Might be fun for Phil to do viewer submitted recipes for his hot chocolate and he makes them on camera. It would be relatively easy. Maybe not the most fun video for everyone, but I'm sure every foodie would appreciate it. :mug:
Phantasy
woodland creature
Posts: 553
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2016 7:33 am

So what are the chances Dan is writing a book and his withdrawal from YouTube and dwindling audience engagement is meant to be fodder for a memoir-esque account of his personal journey before and after BIG?

One would think he could muse in depth on living his adult life in (relative) fame and how that has influenced his life and journey as a queer person—part of that account might be contemporary and include how a shift in his relationship with his audience has affected him and allowed him to grow or gain new perspective. Essentially, everything recent may be a sort of audience social experiment meant to provide him room to create, content to opine upon and a shift in status quo to drum up intrigue.

I don’t think it will come as any surprise when Dan emerges and reveals his project (whatever it is) that he will play heavily into the tortured artist trope who poured everything into his grand endeavor. I think if it is a book part of the mystique he will try to leverage is essentially “wanna know why I disappeared and what I’ve been up to then buy my book”—but of course more artfully marketed than that. At least it would explain a lot.
User avatar
flarequake
not an airport stalker
Posts: 2680
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:55 pm
Pronouns: She/her
Location: London, UK

I’d been thinking it might be early days for him to write a retrospective, though it’s possible. I don’t want it to be a case of ‘bye, and buy to hear more’, I thought he had a need for distance beyond that.
User avatar
Birdie
blobfish
Posts: 650
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:22 pm
Pronouns: they/them

Phantasy wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:03 am So what are the chances Dan is writing a book and his withdrawal from YouTube and dwindling audience engagement is meant to be fodder for a memoir-esque account of his personal journey before and after BIG?

One would think he could muse in depth on living his adult life in (relative) fame and how that has influenced his life and journey as a queer person—part of that account might be contemporary and include how a shift in his relationship with his audience has affected him and allowed him to grow or gain new perspective. Essentially, everything recent may be a sort of audience social experiment meant to provide him room to create, content to opine upon and a shift in status quo to drum up intrigue.

I don’t think it will come as any surprise when Dan emerges and reveals his project (whatever it is) that he will play heavily into the tortured artist trope who poured everything into his grand endeavor. I think if it is a book part of the mystique he will try to leverage is essentially “wanna know why I disappeared and what I’ve been up to then buy my book”—but of course more artfully marketed than that. At least it would explain a lot.
If this was the case, I'd be disappointed af. I'm not happy with how things were done (we been knew) but I can accept that he needs some distance for his health right now. But if all of this is some "social experiment" for his project that would actually be horrible, lol. And yes, he will probably play the tortured artist card again and I'm already rolling my eyes thinking about it.

Also bless Phil for those Youtube stories, I loved them.
Amiaw
interactive introvert
Posts: 1247
Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:55 am

It’s Phil day!! And it’s kiss a ginger day!!

I’m excited that the liveshows are back - I’ve missed them so much. I don’t even care if he avoids talking about Christmas and New Years because his shows are so chaotic that I’ll be happy with whatever he does.
If you’re not watching because Phil’s not your thing that’s fair but you’re missing out
Judearaya
sofa crease
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:34 pm

I have so many thoughts. I've been having them (and partly avoiding discourse bc I am trying to sort them and short of an essay I doubt I'd do them justice). Some really interesting things have been said (I really really loved what Mandy said on the other page).

I think that Dan liking that tweet, and then getting to read the piece, which was so kindly excerpted here kind of gave me this bit moment of hope? About the way Dan is sometimes discussed in discourse accross social media? Whenever I think of Dan, the first thing I think of isn't his content, tbh. It's, how is he doing? I know a lot of people are upset because of lack of communication (or even promises of communication and then...none), or the merch drops with nothing else, or any number of things. As far as merch drops, it seems to me these things are planned way ahead of time, which means time and money are invested in them and that things must carry on as they were planned otherwise that time and money is lost. Yes, merch drops with no content sucks. BUT. (Also, way back conversation about how making nail polish could possibly be a thing that had been in the works for ages, but which I kind of took to mean like, he's wearing crop tops and sweater dresses and nail polish and it took him a lot longer to come out than originally planned so maybe that was a part of it?)

This leads to my next thing which has to do with believing him when he says he has no idea what he's going to do next. Despite his promises, a part of me has always felt like gearing himself up to come out plays a huge role in this. Like, planning to come out was in the works for ages. And I don't *know* obviously, because I am not him, but I do know that sometimes planning for, being scared of, getting to, and doing the THING can mean we a) haven't thought past the thing or b) we really have no idea what the fuck our lives will look like after the thing. We might think we do, we might have hopes and fears or dreams but we really can't know?

Which is where that piece from Medium comes in for me. Well and, generally, my attitude of giving people the benefit of the doubt or grace about these things.

Dan has talked about trauma experience in the past, particularly related to his role as a public entertainer. We know he has had PTSD.

Dan spent YEARS contorting himself to be a persona that was not true to his life or lived experience at all. I cannot fathom what it would be like to have an audience relationship and put yourself in liveshow experiences regularly, or on a broadcast radio show, knowing people were analyzing every single thing re: the thing you were trying to hide. I actually get second hand anxiety thinking about this. For him to say in the Mukbang that as he's older he has more anxiety and panics more stood out to me. He was in intense anxiety inducing situations for a decade but is only now starting to experience it? That my friends is your body holding on to emotional stuff. I have *been* there. Once I started addressing my trauma, and then once I really started letting myself be who I had been hiding from being, a whollle lot of shit came out.
Anyway. So, he's having to be himself but not himself for like, a decade.

And suddenly...that's gone?

What if he fully intended to do certain things and then found he just couldn't? Maybe he's terrified of making promises when he can't actually promise things and knows it? Maybe he's scared to address the fact that he's made certain promises and broken them. Maybe he had plans that fell through? Maybe he's just had to work on changing his relationship to social media while also figuring himself out? Maybe he's learning what his new boundaries can/should be while he navigates figuring out who the heck he is? A million maybes. Does it suck? Yeah! But like, is he okay?

And what stands out to me so much is that fan interaction (can't remember which, maybe star wars?) where the fan said she's never. seen. him. look. happier.

A quote from that article that stood out to me:

"Sometimes the task feels like a burden, the weight of which breeds resentment. Other times it’s a joy, as we untwist ourselves from the contortions we’d previously held and relax into who we are."

I really hope it's the second. And sure, it would be nice to be told so. Even like "Hey guys, figuring myself out. Love ya." But ultimately, the maybes stand out. It seems simple bc it's a thing people want, but nothing is simple with them. Nothing. Nothing about their fan interaction seems simple to me, ever?

FInally, and unrelated, I have to say, I'm not sure what is meant by this discourse:
And yes, he will probably play the tortured artist card again and I'm already rolling my eyes thinking about it.
What is a tortured artist? How do we know if someone is "playing that card" or if they...really....suffered? Unless I am misunderstanding the use of the phrase?
User avatar
CapriciousCrab
sad dimple
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:45 pm
Pronouns: She/her

I'm not sure what Dan's project is or if there even is one- i thought he was talking about the weighted blanket that wasn't ready for the void merch drop? Whatever it is, i wish him success and happiness but I'm not terribly interested in it currently, we'll see what comes.

I'm also not interested in trying to analyze his every liked tweet to try and decipher some hidden meaning or secret code he's trying to relay. And I'm not saying that to anyone here and more as a general statement, but how can we as a fandom talk about how awful it must be for him to be so observed all the time and then turn around and treat him like a bug under glass as we try and pick apart his psyche? It just feels hypocritical to me.

I wish him well. I wish him happiness. And I wish we could just let the man do his thing in peace, whatever it is he's doing.
Judearaya
sofa crease
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:34 pm

CapriciousCrab wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:41 pm but how can we as a fandom talk about how awful it must be for him to be so observed all the time and then turn around and treat him like a bug under glass as we try and pick apart his psyche? It just feels hypocritical to me.

I wish him well. I wish him happiness. And I wish we could just let the man do his thing in peace, whatever it is he's doing.
You said what I meant in a much shorter and coherent way! LOL. Thank you ;)
User avatar
Birdie
blobfish
Posts: 650
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:22 pm
Pronouns: they/them

judearaya wrote:What is a tortured artist? How do we know if someone is "playing that card" or if they...really....suffered? Unless I am misunderstanding the use of the phrase?
Tortured Artist trope is that belief that you have to suffer to make good art. As a creative person I absolutely hate it. Like, when people say "Van Gogh only made good art because he suffered from depression". That's not only not true (he made his best art when he was in therapy and getting better), it's also just a very dangerous idea that you'll make your best art when you're suffering or even mentally ill. I can only speak for myself but my anxiety and depression usually stop me from making art at all when I'm in a really bad place. I make good art when I feel good.

In Dan's case, he's prone to be all "I put my everything into this project and it was so hard so now you can't be mad at me anymore", like he was with the merch. And maybe it's true for him but I also find it a bit manipulative to suggest that making art/merch was so hard for you that now no one can criticise you for past mistakes anymore. I hope he won't but I kind of expect him to do it again when the new project finally releases and it's just not good. But maybe he won't, we'll see. I mean, even if he does, whatever. But I'm tired of people pushing this narrative, it's harmful.
CapriciousCrab wrote:I'm also not interested in trying to analyze his every liked tweet to try and decipher some hidden meaning or secret code he's trying to relay. And I'm not saying that to anyone here and more as a general statement, but how can we as a fandom talk about how awful it must be for him to be so observed all the time and then turn around and treat him like a bug under glass as we try and pick apart his psyche? It just feels hypocritical to me.
Yes, I agree with this a lot.
User avatar
liola
rankussy
Posts: 1679
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:09 pm
Pronouns: she/her
Location: Italy

I'm just tired of seeing people justify Dan's absence with his mental health or the struggle of coming out to be honest. I'm not saying either of those things are easy subjects that can be brushed away, but i also find it harmful and almost disrespectful to give him a pass at everything and patiently wait for him to make up his mind because of those things. Because let's be honest, if he can allow himself to take time off and be sure his audience will be patiently waiting wiggling their tails like a good puppy is only because he's also an extremely privileged man who took risks of sharing these absolutely private, scary things when he knew he could, when he had the safety net to fall back into. Which isn't to say that for him it wasn't hard and scary and probably something that consumed him inside, but the privilege of his position allowing him to do so shouldn't be cancelled.

So when people discuss his absence and his lack of engagement with his devoted community and the first discourse that comes out is that maybe he's going through a depressive episode or maybe he's still reeling from the scary coming out.. I find it a bit insulting, for him. Because especially about his mental health He said himself he never wanted to use it as an excuse but so many do (talking in general and not only/particularly about this forum)

Like.. I just want to criticize the guy about his work from what we're seeing without speculating on whether his mental health is good or not or whether he's struggling daily with finding himself in the waking of his coming out, because those things are for him and the people he wants to share them with, not us.

That said, I feel like as always I need to make a disclaimer that I wish him well, I wish him happiness and serenity and clarity if those are all things he's trying to find. I can also be disappointed at the same time though :shrug:
Will probably never be over the BONCAS and the beauty of Phil Lester.

Official Moving Hill Mayor
User avatar
alittledizzy
actual demon phannie
actual demon phannie
Posts: 7100
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:09 pm
Pronouns: she/her

liola wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:17 pm I'm just tired of seeing people justify Dan's absence with his mental health or the struggle of coming out to be honest. I'm not saying either of those things are easy subjects that can be brushed away, but i also find it harmful and almost disrespectful to give him a pass at everything and patiently wait for him to make up his mind because of those things. Because let's be honest, if he can allow himself to take time off and be sure his audience will be patiently waiting wiggling their tails like a good puppy is only because he's also an extremely privileged man who took risks of sharing these absolutely private, scary things when he knew he could, when he had the safety net to fall back into. Which isn't to say that for him it wasn't hard and scary and probably something that consumed him inside, but the privilege of his position allowing him to do so shouldn't be cancelled.

So when people discuss his absence and his lack of engagement with his devoted community and the first discourse that comes out is that maybe he's going through a depressive episode or maybe he's still reeling from the scary coming out.. I find it a bit insulting, for him. Because especially about his mental health He said himself he never wanted to use it as an excuse but so many do (talking in general and not only/particularly about this forum)

Like.. I just want to criticize the guy about his work from what we're seeing without speculating on whether his mental health is good or not or whether he's struggling daily with finding himself in the waking of his coming out, because those things are for him and the people he wants to share them with, not us.

That said, I feel like as always I need to make a disclaimer that I wish him well, I wish him happiness and serenity and clarity if those are all things he's trying to find. I can also be disappointed at the same time though :shrug:
I strongly believe that’s impossible given that the work he’s doing is related to himself as a person. The content he’s put out over the past three years, including II, including Instagram stories, including videos, are insights into himself. You can divorce the art from the artist for some people based on the content they make, but not Dan. The most you could really do is critique that he’s not making less personality based content which I don’t actually think anyone wants based on how people feel about merch and whatever his upcoming project is.
User avatar
liola
rankussy
Posts: 1679
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:09 pm
Pronouns: she/her
Location: Italy

alittledizzy wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:33 pm
liola wrote: Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:17 pm I'm just tired of seeing people justify Dan's absence with his mental health or the struggle of coming out to be honest. I'm not saying either of those things are easy subjects that can be brushed away, but i also find it harmful and almost disrespectful to give him a pass at everything and patiently wait for him to make up his mind because of those things. Because let's be honest, if he can allow himself to take time off and be sure his audience will be patiently waiting wiggling their tails like a good puppy is only because he's also an extremely privileged man who took risks of sharing these absolutely private, scary things when he knew he could, when he had the safety net to fall back into. Which isn't to say that for him it wasn't hard and scary and probably something that consumed him inside, but the privilege of his position allowing him to do so shouldn't be cancelled.

So when people discuss his absence and his lack of engagement with his devoted community and the first discourse that comes out is that maybe he's going through a depressive episode or maybe he's still reeling from the scary coming out.. I find it a bit insulting, for him. Because especially about his mental health He said himself he never wanted to use it as an excuse but so many do (talking in general and not only/particularly about this forum)

Like.. I just want to criticize the guy about his work from what we're seeing without speculating on whether his mental health is good or not or whether he's struggling daily with finding himself in the waking of his coming out, because those things are for him and the people he wants to share them with, not us.

That said, I feel like as always I need to make a disclaimer that I wish him well, I wish him happiness and serenity and clarity if those are all things he's trying to find. I can also be disappointed at the same time though :shrug:
I strongly believe that’s impossible given that the work he’s doing is related to himself as a person. The content he’s put out over the past three years, including II, including Instagram stories, including videos, are insights into himself. You can divorce the art from the artist for some people based on the content they make, but not Dan. The most you could really do is critique that he’s not making less personality based content which I don’t actually think anyone wants based on how people feel about merch and whatever his upcoming project is.
I personally disagree, because I don't mean criticizing the quality of his content which would mean criticize him as a person. But when it comes to criticizing things that are beyond the content itself and that come with this particular line of job, which is interacting with the audience, that shouldn't have anything to do with his mental health or again the struggle of coming out. Or rather, yes it can, but i strongly believe there is a limit that should be placed in that. Meaning, I don't think Dan is spending 24/7 of the past year thinking about his mental health or his coming out, and during that time I'm sure he's cultivating interests, relaxing, enjoying some free time and possibly working on things. I believe i can criticize that during this year he could've had time to interact with us and share a bit of whatever, not really content or not really personal reasons but rather things that would make us understand why he suddenly stopped interacting. He's chosen not to, which is his right, and I'm choosing to criticize him for stopping a part of his job that is arguabily what brought him the level of success that allows him to be in this position today. And that has nothing to do with him as a person and I believe it has nothing to do with his mental health or his coming out because I think Dan is a well rounded person and those two things do not define him and shouldn't be the only thing we talk about whenever someone dares complaining about his lack of interaction

Like.. the marathon of last year, for example. I'm sure he was busy, I'm sure he was working out and I'm sure he was also struggling with writing BIG and coming out to his family, but i still think completely shutting out an audience for 6 months and then sharing one video and merch expecting them to buy it (because otherwise you wouldn't do it) is not that great. And that's a critique on him as a business man, not him as a person which I personally distinguish
Will probably never be over the BONCAS and the beauty of Phil Lester.

Official Moving Hill Mayor
Locked