Dan & Phil Part 93: Fomosexual

[flarequake]

Lauren set up her own business a while ago, maybe it’s taken off, or she’s just having a change.

[Amiaw]

I wonder what Phil’s working on that’s going to take a year to release? This is the first time he’s really mentioned a time frame so does that mean it’s already in the works?

[noodlebum]

Exciting stuff go on Phil

[alittledizzy]

Alright, lets get deep here. Yesterday rizzo and I were chatting about this topic and I've been mentally stuck on it since then.

I think it's clear from everything Phil has said that he wanted his coming out to be lowkey. I think that speaks volumes to how settled into his identity he is, and that's not a bad thing. But the differences in Dan and Phil's approaches are still fascinating to me. Dan is someone who struggled with knowing who he is and that means now that he's figured it out he's been radiating happiness and in a total phase of celebrating it, owning it, claiming it. His whole video is a testament to that. His gay cake. His tweets about being gay. Throwing himself fully into Pride. His twitter likes, his everything.

Phil's always known who he is - but he found out when he was twelve. Then he spent a decade, give or take, with what sounds like (from his video) no one else knowing who he is the way he did. He didn't tell his school friends, they found out when he was outed. He didn't tell his parents until around the time Dan was in his life. University was his first fresh start to own himself, and even then we know he started out trying to hide it. Dan's conflict burned hot on and off and, based on what he says in BIG, he had labels put on him even before he was sure what they meant. Phil's was a quiet quiet burn that lasted through his formative years. He wasn't bullied for being gay but he also doesn't seem to have had the periods Dan had of finding people similar to him (Dan at 15 with his emo friends, Dan at 18 with whoever he fooled around with before Phil, then Phil at 19). Phil was most likely in his twenties before even his friends that knew him his whole life knew he was gay, much less his family. Being bullied for being gay is fucking traumatic. Having to hide who you are because you're afraid you won't be accepted by anyone you love is also traumatic, in a different and sometimes more insidious way.

I know a lot of the differences in them come down to personality and I'm not ignoring that. But I also wonder if Phil ever got to experience what Dan is experiencing now, or if by the time he came out 'keeping it lowkey' was so embedded into who he is that loudly celebrating it was just a phase of acceptance he kind of missed out on.

[noodlebum]

I know a lot of the differences in them come down to personality and I'm not ignoring that. But I also wonder if Phil ever got to experience what Dan is experiencing now, or if by the time he came out 'keeping it lowkey' was so embedded into who he is that loudly celebrating it was just a phase of acceptance he kind of missed out on.

This is pretty interesting! I'd say a lot about Phil's personality and personal life is low-key compared to Dan

[rizzo]

Alright, lets get deep here. Yesterday rizzo and I were chatting about this topic and I've been mentally stuck on it since then.

I think it's clear from everything Phil has said that he wanted his coming out to be lowkey. I think that speaks volumes to how settled into his identity he is, and that's not a bad thing. But the differences in Dan and Phil's approaches are still fascinating to me. Dan is someone who struggled with knowing who he is and that means now that he's figured it out he's been radiating happiness and in a total phase of celebrating it, owning it, claiming it. His whole video is a testament to that. His gay cake. His tweets about being gay. Throwing himself fully into Pride. His twitter likes, his everything.

Phil's always known who he is - but he found out when he was twelve. Then he spent a decade, give or take, with what sounds like (from his video) no one else knowing who he is the way he did. He didn't tell his school friends, they found out when he was outed. He didn't tell his parents until around the time Dan was in his life. University was his first fresh start to own himself, and even then we know he started out trying to hide it. Dan's conflict burned hot on and off and, based on what he says in BIG, he had labels put on him even before he was sure what they meant. Phil's was a quiet quiet burn that lasted through his formative years. He wasn't bullied for being gay but he also doesn't seem to have had the periods Dan had of finding people similar to him (Dan at 15 with his emo friends, Dan at 18 with whoever he fooled around with before Phil, then Phil at 19). Phil was most likely in his twenties before even his friends that knew him his whole life knew he was gay, much less his family. Being bullied for being gay is fucking traumatic. Having to hide who you are because you're afraid you won't be accepted by anyone you love is also traumatic, in a different and sometimes more insidious way.

I know a lot of the differences in them come down to personality and I'm not ignoring that. But I also wonder if Phil ever got to experience what Dan is experiencing now, or if by the time he came out 'keeping it lowkey' was so embedded into who he is that loudly celebrating it was just a phase of acceptance he kind of missed out on.

My line of thinking on this always comes from the way Phil reacts to live-chat commentary. For example, last Sunday's LS at 31:40, when someone said "Gay mouse!" in response to his rainbow mouse, he was very.... apathetic about it and moved on quickly. Not that I expect Phil to react by throwing confetti or something, but sometimes it feels to me that he's uninterested in having Gay be a topic. Not in a negative way, mind you. But in a "let's not make it that important" kind of way that I don't think we'd ever necessarily get from Dan.

To Phil, it feels like being gay is about as much a generic part of him as his eyes being blue, his home being in London, and him being a YouTuber. He's so settled into his sexuality, that people suddenly making it A Thing maybe throws him off and makes him want to move on?

Again, I'm not saying his POV on it is negative or that he doesn't celebrate it on occasion (cake out of the oven joke, anyone?), but that he's not interested in it being something he has to constantly address. He was very comfy not doing so for a very long time.

He's been who he is amongst friends and family for a solid 10 years now. It's old news. (As opposed to Dan who came out to more than just his audience). And now it's suddenly being brought up on the regular for Phil. And as much as it's maybe only 50% of the reason, he probably posted his video because... Dan did.

And IDK where exactly I'm going with this, but I feel like I have to say again that I don't think Phil is by ANY means mad at it. I think he's happy to have done it, to be out-out. To be an inspiration to thousands. But I also get the feeling that a lot of him wants the world at large to be much like his small bubble: accepting it as just another part of him and no big deal. What's inspiring? He's just... got a boyfriend.

[alittledizzy]

Alright, lets get deep here. Yesterday rizzo and I were chatting about this topic and I've been mentally stuck on it since then.

I think it's clear from everything Phil has said that he wanted his coming out to be lowkey. I think that speaks volumes to how settled into his identity he is, and that's not a bad thing. But the differences in Dan and Phil's approaches are still fascinating to me. Dan is someone who struggled with knowing who he is and that means now that he's figured it out he's been radiating happiness and in a total phase of celebrating it, owning it, claiming it. His whole video is a testament to that. His gay cake. His tweets about being gay. Throwing himself fully into Pride. His twitter likes, his everything.

Phil's always known who he is - but he found out when he was twelve. Then he spent a decade, give or take, with what sounds like (from his video) no one else knowing who he is the way he did. He didn't tell his school friends, they found out when he was outed. He didn't tell his parents until around the time Dan was in his life. University was his first fresh start to own himself, and even then we know he started out trying to hide it. Dan's conflict burned hot on and off and, based on what he says in BIG, he had labels put on him even before he was sure what they meant. Phil's was a quiet quiet burn that lasted through his formative years. He wasn't bullied for being gay but he also doesn't seem to have had the periods Dan had of finding people similar to him (Dan at 15 with his emo friends, Dan at 18 with whoever he fooled around with before Phil, then Phil at 19). Phil was most likely in his twenties before even his friends that knew him his whole life knew he was gay, much less his family. Being bullied for being gay is fucking traumatic. Having to hide who you are because you're afraid you won't be accepted by anyone you love is also traumatic, in a different and sometimes more insidious way.

I know a lot of the differences in them come down to personality and I'm not ignoring that. But I also wonder if Phil ever got to experience what Dan is experiencing now, or if by the time he came out 'keeping it lowkey' was so embedded into who he is that loudly celebrating it was just a phase of acceptance he kind of missed out on.

My line of thinking on this always comes from the way Phil reacts to live-chat commentary. For example, last Sunday's LS at 31:40, when someone said "Gay mouse!" in response to his rainbow mouse, he was very.... apathetic about it and moved on quickly. Not that I expect Phil to react by throwing confetti or something, but sometimes it feels to me that he's uninterested in having Gay be a topic. Not in a negative way, mind you. But in a "let's not make it that important" kind of way that I don't think we'd ever necessarily get from Dan.

To Phil, it feels like being gay is about as much a generic part of him as his eyes being blue, his home being in London, and him being a YouTuber. He's so settled into his sexuality, that people suddenly making it A Thing maybe throws him off and makes him want to move on?

Again, I'm not saying his POV on it is negative or that he doesn't celebrate it on occasion (cake out of the oven joke, anyone?), but that he's not interested in it being something he has to constantly address. He was very comfy not doing so for a very long time.

He's been who he is amongst friends and family for a solid 10 years now. It's old news. (As opposed to Dan who came out to more than just his audience). And now it's suddenly being brought up on the regular for Phil. And as much as it's maybe only 50% of the reason, he probably posted his video because... Dan did.

And IDK where exactly I'm going with this, but I feel like I have to say again that I don't think Phil is by ANY means mad at it. I think he's happy to have done it, to be out-out. To be an inspiration to thousands. But I also get the feeling that a lot of him wants the world at large to be much like his small bubble: accepting it as just another part of him and no big deal. What's inspiring? He's just... got a boyfriend.

I definitely agree with all of this. But I do still think that some of it may stem from having spent that formative teenage period denying who he is. I think that the line between comfortable with being quiet and uncomfortable with being loud can be strange and pervasive. Granted I am saying that with the personal experience as being a queer person who stayed closeted everywhere except online for most of my life, and for the most part (with regard to family) still am. Less of a conscious discomfort and more like a vague sense of anxiety when it's put on display in a way that's large and outside of your control (like people in chat making a big deal out of a gay mouse).

[liola]

I think - and I'm probably projecting a lot of my identity issues here and a bunch of headcanons - a lot of it can also go back to the different Kind of anxiety they have. Phil to me has always seemed like someone whose anxiety and fears come from the desired to not be seen - he's anxious when it comes to social interactions, he doesn't want people to see a sight of him that might be disappointing. That's why he keeps everything low-key and light, why he wants what he puts out to be seen a positive bubble with few openings in between. While Dan always seems to me like the opposite, he wants to be seen for who he is, for who he feels and wants to be, and he wants to claim that desire even in this case. I feel like I always think of them as Dan as a performer and Phil as a creative behind the scene, and to me the way their coming outs and really the way they've acted in the past year can be very much tied back to that. Dan seems to find joy in performing who he is and the truth that's he's struggled with. Phil probably had more fear in letting his truth be seen than what he let on. It's incredible to me how they managed to complement their own ways and find the middle ground in how they handled their coming outs

[alittledizzy]

[CapriciousCrab]

He needs to be bubble wrapped for his own protection.

[Amiaw]

Wow Seth Everman and Garrett Watts both interacting with Phil today?

[alittledizzy]

Wow Seth Everman and Garrett Watts both interacting with Phil today?

Amazing.

[flarequake]

He needs to be bubble wrapped for his own protection.

I marvel that he hasn’t done an Orlando Bloom all his life and broken every possible bone. Some people have that kind of accident-proneness and it’s just incredible.

[glitterintheair]

As a fan of Mac, I love this

[hello9217]

I guess my perceptive may be skewed since I don’t watch the liveshows and so maybe his interactions on there vary but I find phil to be very open about his sexuality. Like in almost every single one of his videos since coming out he has referenced being gay. For example: gay cake, the heterosexuality question in never have i ever, the gay barn, comparing himself to captain holt, etc. Like to me it seems that phil mentions many times that he’s gay.

Also garret and phil interaction is everything

[Amiaw]

Phil completed the mutual with Garrett. Now we just need a video

[alittledizzy]

I guess my perceptive may be skewed since I don’t watch the liveshows and so maybe his interactions on there vary but I find phil to be very open about his sexuality. Like in almost every single one of his videos since coming out he has referenced being gay. For example: gay cake, the heterosexuality question in never have i ever, the gay barn, comparing himself to captain holt, etc. Like to me it seems that phil mentions many times that he’s gay.

I get what riz is saying, though. I think you would have to watch the liveshows to see it. Moments when the chat is flooded with gay comments (he has a rainbow mouse; the entire chat said gay mouse) he acknowledges it but then tries to move on fast whereas the chat keeps on spamming and spamming. That's kind of what I meant before in the difference in Phil's comfort level with bringing it up himself or in a calm indirect environment like a video he's filming that he'll get to edit, and in a liveshow where the chat is just gonna full force slam into him with it.

(That's not to say he even minds the jokes in chat - I just think I agree with what I think riz was saying, which is that Phil doesn't want to follow the chat's lead and turn every liveshow into nonstop gay joke hour.)

[Susanisnotafish]

Phil is a good egg to continue to do live shows and read out the chat as much as he does after having read out such classics as “anal tampon” and “you and Dan are so married”. Phil has his moments of sass with the chat though, like “I don’t like having glasses on my face and I’ll do what I want” (loosely quoted).

[Phanshy]

I guess my perceptive may be skewed since I don’t watch the liveshows and so maybe his interactions on there vary but I find phil to be very open about his sexuality. Like in almost every single one of his videos since coming out he has referenced being gay. For example: gay cake, the heterosexuality question in never have i ever, the gay barn, comparing himself to captain holt, etc. Like to me it seems that phil mentions many times that he’s gay.

I really agree I think he's just really chill about it and it's hard to compare it with Dan because Dan hasn't done a live show since coming out, I do think Phil is a little wary in the live shows because of people's usernames being traps for him to say cringe thing's, you can see it makes him uncomfortable especially when they have Dan in their username, I find it embarrassing how the chat freaks out about any tiny mention of the word gay I think in part it's due to how long we hoped for the day when they would come out but Phil doesn't have to be like I'm gay, I'm gay did I tell you that I'm gay, this is gay, that's gay to some how prove he's comfortable especially when it's something silly like a rainbow mouse that doesn't have a sexuality and he'd already joked about the gaming PC being gay or having a gay agenda in a previous live show which he referenced this show.

He often casually mentions gay things in live shows like wondering if Norman was gay then deciding it wouldn't be a good idea because of how territorial they are. Mentioning his gaming husband Gibraltar. I think the phandom hasn't gotten out of the mentality of trying to find proof they're gay and freaking out about it, even though they've come out. Being gay isn't his personality it's just who he is and he hasn't changed because he was more comfortable and open with his sexuality in his private life so once he came out to us he's just back to being himself with a few extra gay mentions although that was a pretty normal thing in the year or two before coming out anyway.

[flarequake]

A channel called YNR+ has Phil’s last 2 liveshows, this is the one that failed to record for him on 26th January, in 2 parts -

[Birdie]

I know a lot of the differences in them come down to personality and I'm not ignoring that. But I also wonder if Phil ever got to experience what Dan is experiencing now, or if by the time he came out 'keeping it lowkey' was so embedded into who he is that loudly celebrating it was just a phase of acceptance he kind of missed out on.

I think it's really important to add that not every queer person needs or wants that kind of celebration of being gay. I think Phil is very comfortable with his gay identity, he isn't hiding it at all anymore (and hasn't done so for ages irl) and I don't even find him lowkey in the way he presents it on camera. But: Even if he never loudly celebrated it, maybe he never wanted to and I think we should totally consider that a valid option. Dan's approach is and was great but it's not for everyone by a long shot.

I might be projecting but I guess I'm low-key too. I never even felt the need to come out to certain people and I still don't. I told the people that matter and that's enough. I don't need to be loud about it, in fact I would feel uncomfortable, that's not who I am. (And yet I'd always fight for other queer people's right to be as loud as they want.) All I'm saying is, maybe Phil is more low-key because that's just who he is and that's how he's most comfortable expressing his sexuality. And that's fine, it doesn't mean he missed or misses out on anything.

To Phil, it feels like being gay is about as much a generic part of him as his eyes being blue, his home being in London, and him being a YouTuber. He's so settled into his sexuality, that people suddenly making it A Thing maybe throws him off and makes him want to move on?

I agree with this. Obviously we don't know what he thinks but I can see this. I do think Phil is the kind of gay person who just wants to normalise it, who doesn't want it to be a big deal. Making a throwaway "the cake is gay" joke but being a bit weird about his entire fanbase obsessing over the gay mouse like it was a big deal kind of fits that too.

[alittledizzy]

I know a lot of the differences in them come down to personality and I'm not ignoring that. But I also wonder if Phil ever got to experience what Dan is experiencing now, or if by the time he came out 'keeping it lowkey' was so embedded into who he is that loudly celebrating it was just a phase of acceptance he kind of missed out on.

I think it's really important to add that not every queer person needs or wants that kind of celebration of being gay. I think Phil is very comfortable with his gay identity, he isn't hiding it at all anymore (and hasn't done so for ages irl) and I don't even find him lowkey in the way he presents it on camera. But: Even if he never loudly celebrated it, maybe he never wanted to and I think we should totally consider that a valid option. Dan's approach is and was great but it's not for everyone by a long shot.

I might be projecting but I guess I'm low-key too. I never even felt the need to come out to certain people and I still don't. I told the people that matter and that's enough. I don't need to be loud about it, in fact I would feel uncomfortable, that's not who I am. (And yet I'd always fight for other queer people's right to be as loud as they want.) All I'm saying is, maybe Phil is more low-key because that's just who he is and that's how he's most comfortable expressing his sexuality. And that's fine, it doesn't mean he missed or misses out on anything.

Yeah this was just meant to be speculation/a conversation starter, not me declaring how Phil feels. I tried to say multiple times that I know personality plays into it. I'm just interested in formative years influencing how someone handles their sexuality. It's not a right or wrong and I didn't mean to imply that so I'm sorry if that's how it came across. At the heart of it I was just hoping to spark a discussion on the differences in Phil as someone who stayed distant from the label 'gay' until his twenties (and arguably until his 30s in terms of public presentation) and Dan who battled with the label 'gay' for most of his life and was traumatized by it.

I just miss the essays back and forth on IDB that aren't full of anger and was hoping to start some conversation around something that people could get analytical and chew on.

[Birdie]

No, don't worry, I understood how you meant it. I just felt like having that option written down as well would be a good thing because it was the first thing that popped into my mind when I read your and rizzo's posts. I think their different approaches to living their gay identities after coming out to their audience are super interesting and I loved reading all the posts your initial post sparked. I just wanted to add something, I didn't mean to contradict you at all.

(Today is one of those days where I feel like I can't speak English at all so I'm sorry if this post and my last post are a bit jumbled and not clear enough, )

[liola]

FAMILY OUTING!!! Cultured family! Dan is a Lester!! First family picture!!

[Amiaw]

That dart story has the whole families avatars on the screen. Phil’s stories are so wholesome today