Dan & Phil Part 95: ASS (Aquarium Staff Seminar)

[alittledizzy]

Dan vyou answers: 5 March 2011 (p2)

What do you think about illuminati?
Answer: Um well I don’t think that Lady Gaga is some secret illuminati witch that’s out there to brainwash the universe. I think that her music videos have symbols and themes and they’re creative, I don’t think that literally Jay-Z and Lady Gaga are evil [hand gestures] illuminati goat worshipping demons. You know, I’m not knocking the idea that certain governments and banks and music companies are shaping today’s society to influence us into the way that we do things. But I think that there is a fine line between what is true with serious rich powerful people, and… you know. Beyonce worshipping a goat, which is just daft.

What do you study at uni?
Answer: I study law at university. Straight law. I study law. Serious business.

the game
Answer: DAMN YOU.

Internet cult leader
Answer: Yes, my name is Dan, and I am indeed an internet cult leader. And if you’re wondering what I mean by that, I have a large following of young teenage girls that I am slowly brain washing for when my evil master plan is ready to take shape.

how/why did you start youtube?
Answer: This one is an interesting question. Um, some of you may or may not know that I haven’t in fact only joined youtube about a year ago when I started making videos. If you go on my channel you’ll see that I have in fact had this channel for about… almost and a half years now, and I’ve been on youtube longer than that because I watched videos before I had a channel, then I had a channel before I made danisnotonfire. But yeah I’ve pretty much been on youtube since the start of the website. You know, subscribing to people and commenting and watching videos and being a part of the community. And I always did want to make videos because, you know, I looked up to the people that made videos and I, you know, I thought I’d really enjoy doing that but then I thought you know, I’m just a fifteen year old, what am I going to make videos about? No one’s gonna care. It’s never gonna achieve anything. So, you know, I never made them. And then about four years later when I became friends with Phil, um, I told him and he just basically convinced me that even if it was never gonna go anywhere that I should give it a shot. So… I took a blind leap of faith and I started making videos like I’d always wanted to.

How tall are you exactly?
Answer: I am six foot fall. And before you think that that’s absolutely ginormous, it’s not. That’s the height of a normal guy. I am not twelve, remember. I have grown up. So yeah I’m not some giant bean sprout of a person, I am just an averagely heighted male.

How is Pokemon White so far?
Answer: It’s awesome. Seriously, if you have a DS and you’re a Pokemon fan then you have to get the game. It’s really good. I’m at like… the third gym and you know, it’s just a brand new Pokemon adventure, improved gameplay, looks better, is cooler, and you have to get it. Yes. It’s good.

How did you meet Phil?
Answer: This is something that I bet a million people want the answer to. Well, um, pretty much I just met him as AmazingPhil… which inspires all of you out there to just stalk your youtube subscriptions until they become your best friend. But yeah, pretty much, I just used to @ reply him on twitter like - you saw that film, hey dude I like that film. You’ve got Muse’s new album, hey I like Muse’s new album. And then he was like, we seem to have things in common, wanna chat on Skype? And then a couple months later it was like, hey dude, wanna hang out in town some time? And… it sort of went on from there. So yes. Just… stalk people until they become your friend.

Don’t you wish your girlfriend was hot, like me
Answer: No, because you’re probably a fifty year old p********.

Do you read every single letter you get?
Answer: Yes, of course I do! If somebody sends me a letter then of course I will take the time to read it and I have an entire wall of fanart there to prove it. But uh, you know, I try to even put every single letter and video I get shown in my Danmail videos. As in literally every single letter I get sent is in those videos, which is why they’re like four and a half hours long. I can’t say that I will physically respond to every single letter because I get loads but I will never ever not read or show a letter because if someone takes the time and effort to make something nice for me then I will look at it.

do you answer all questions you get here or do you chose them
Answer: No i will not answer every single question that I get, because some of them are questions that have been asked before, some of them are questions that I don’t want asked, some of them are just really boring questions… and then you know, some of them are just like… I want the questions that are viewable by everybody to be good questions that lots of people will want to see. So I will go through and look at every single question that I get asked but I will not answer every single one ever.

Can you yodel?
Answer: *yodels* And every cat in a mile’s radius exploded.

Aww are you left handed?
Answer: Yes, yes I am. In other words I am crippled and disadvantaged at life. But I am biologically more creative than you, so. You know. It’s okay.

[kavat]

Internet cult leader
Answer: Yes, my name is Dan, and I am indeed an internet cult leader. And if you’re wondering what I mean by that, I have a large following of young teenage girls that I am slowly brain washing for when my evil master plan is ready to take shape.

Was the master plan to make them all queer because I think that's what happened. The Gay Agenda.

How did you meet Phil?
Answer: This is something that I bet a million people want the answer to. Well, um, pretty much I just met him as AmazingPhil… which inspires all of you out there to just stalk your youtube subscriptions until they become your best friend. But yeah, pretty much, I just used to @ reply him on twitter like - you saw that film, hey dude I like that film. You’ve got Muse’s new album, hey I like Muse’s new album. And then he was like, we seem to have things in common, wanna chat on Skype? And then a couple months later it was like, hey dude, wanna hang out in town some time? And… it sort of went on from there. So yes. Just… stalk people until they become your friend.

Stalk him untill he loves you, amiright?

Don’t you wish your girlfriend was hot, like me
Answer: No, because you’re probably a fifty year old p********.

I thought they were all thirteen year old girls, make up your mind

[alittledizzy]

Given Jenna and Shane's videos, a lot of people on twitter are calling for Dan to apologize for a plethora of things now.

I don't want to give an opinion that speaks over the people who are upset over things that don't specifically pertain to a group that I'm included in, I'd rather let people impacted by that speak on those topics themselves.

But I saw a lot of people upset about lesbian slurs/sexualization of lesbians from his old videos and it surprised me. I think it's making me realize that personally I value actions over words. I - a lesbian - look at what action he took in the decade since he made those comments/videos (change the video thumbnail, delete the old social media) and his behavior now and an apology seems null to me. Calling for an apology for those things - again, I'm specifically and only talking about for the dyke/lesbian comments - almost seems like performative demands from fans for performative words from their fave just to feel included in a movement.

[Becky.rigby]

Right, I’m sorry if this offends anyone but people are wanting an apology from dan for something around 10 years ago!! He has proved himself and has said he was struggling with his sexuality at the time. And some of these people need to look at themselves, they sexualised Dan and Phil!! Asking them to kiss on live shows, constantly asking them if they are gay, invading their privacy and many other things we may not even be aware of. Dan hasn’t even been on YouTube for a year so the likelihood they are going to get a video apology is unlikely.

I am all for not defending negative actions, even from your favs, but people have purposely gone out of their way to find old tweets and FORMSPRINGS!! And it wasn’t a problem before but now all of a sudden it is :S

[Amiaw]

All I’ll say about this is if you’re digging to find things to be offended about when you know the person has clearly changed then it seems like you’re just trying to find a reason to be upset. Words don’t mean anything if actions don’t back them up and in this case I don’t think anyone could say dan still holds those views or would even say those things to be edgy.

[obsessivelymoody]

Given Jenna and Shane's videos, a lot of people on twitter are calling for Dan to apologize for a plethora of things now.

I don't want to give an opinion that speaks over the people who are upset over things that don't specifically pertain to a group that I'm included in, I'd rather let people impacted by that speak on those topics themselves.

But I saw a lot of people upset about lesbian slurs/sexualization of lesbians from his old videos and it surprised me. I think it's making me realize that personally I value actions over words. I - a lesbian - look at what action he took in the decade since he made those comments/videos (change the video thumbnail, delete the old social media) and his behavior now and an apology seems null to me. Calling for an apology for those things - again, I'm specifically and only talking about for the dyke/lesbian comments - almost seems like performative demands from fans for performative words from their fave just to feel included in a movement.

Agreed, especially as a lesbian too. I just. If you want to criticize Dan and Phil, there are other things you can bring up (like the pewdiepie bullshit etc). Not to mention...iirc Dan did talk about how he knows he did/said shitty things in the past and in past videos and he's grown from that and that's why he's decided to unlist/private stuff. Pretty sure he said that in a liveshow and he wrote it in the description of a/some videos he unlisted/privated. And I guess on the same topic - were these folks not around for the great pillaging of his channel circa 2018??

[alittledizzy]

Interesting how wrong he is on every level?

[Susanisnotafish]

I have so many questions.

[alittledizzy]

Oh he threw a bone to the Americans, too...

[blahblahblah8]

Omg I’ve never known someone besides me who chooses reeses pieces over other candy! And takis are a good choice too but I can’t imagine Phil eating them for some reason lol

[rizzo]

The biggest disappointment here is the Mountain Dew. Above all other sodas?!

Pains my heart. Makes me question my decision to stan.

[Phantasy]

The biggest disappointment here is the Mountain Dew. Above all other sodas?!

Pains my heart. Makes me question my decision to stan.

[noodlebum]

I mean, obviously it should be pickled onion monster munch and cherry coke zero? Daim is a nice choice though, bit outside-the-box

[madzilla84]

I was surprised he picked flamin hot over pickled onion too, but I guess he’s just into spicy stuff as the US crisps are as well. Vanilla Coke’s pretty good and Daim is god-tier.

The Mountain Dew is obviously because he’s an epic gamer.

[madzilla84]

(Sorry for the double post, but I didn't think I should add this to my post about snacks. )

I wanted to post about this because I genuinely want opinions and thoughts on it, not because I want to Start Anything; I’ll also add these aren’t my opinions but some posts I read that just made me curious as to other peoples’ thoughts. (Also, if the OPs are on here or see this, I’m not having a go or calling out; I genuinely thought it was an interesting discussion point.)

It was mentioned upthread that after Jenna’s video, there were some mutterings on twitter about folks wanting Dan (and Phil, but mostly Dan) to apologise similarly for old stuff etc - this isn’t about that specifically, but came off the back of it. We’ve touched on the idea before that, especially in the earlier days, Dan was perhaps contemptuous about the fact that his main audience was mostly young girls/women - opinions I’ve seen on the subject range from he’s embraced it now, understands our diversity and doesn’t mind any more, through to the idea that he still kinda hates it and is actively trying to shirk his old audience (through neglect?) so he can acquire a (mostly) new one.

The discussions I saw delve into misogyny etc, so fair warning if you want to read. I’ll quote under the spoiler, and link to the OPs. Again, not saying I agree - I don’t even follow either of the OPs, I saw the posts on Twitter - just wanting to know what people think as I’m still trying to iron out my own thoughts about it, and would appreciate additional perspectives.

Here are some quotes from the posts I read:


Excerpt from post 1. Full post

when people talk about dan being misogynistic in the past, they are almost always specifically referring to the time around 2012-13 where he would make fun of shipping and fandoms and fan culture, knowing that his fanbase itself was largely made up of young girls who participated in those things. you can say that he was lashing out as a defense mechanism due to some fans’ inappropriate behavior and you can say that that his opinions and attitudes were damaging to his young female supporters at the time and you’d be right about both things. you can also acknowledge that his entire branding about his life being a joke emerged amidst him realizing that his fanbase wasn’t going to change and become more male, that everyone now saw him as a teen girl idol and there was really no way to reverse that, and that he’s never truly addressed any of these things.

misogyny isn’t always a man saying “i hate women they’re stupid and bad.” a lot of times it’s microaggressions that women often don’t even pick up on, because all genders growing up are so, so heavily indoctrinated with with the idea that things with a mostly male fanbase are serious and smart, while things with a mostly female fanbase are silly and not to be taken seriously.

Excerpt from post 2. Full post

because of the assumption made by other youtubers that dnp’s base is solely hysterical younger women, dan has taken on that assumption too and sees us as lesser than because of it even if he doesn’t mean to. you can see this in the way he interacts with fans online and specifically in live shows where he makes clear distinctions between Serious topics such as Serious Music or Serious Films or Serious Whatever The Fuck versus what his fans enjoy regularly. he talks down to his fans and sees us as people that don’t have the capacity to mark content as good or bad in a ~cultural~ context. which is hilarious considering so much of his fanbase actually creates our current culture through our consumption.

i don’t think dan actively hates women or the vague idea that his supporters are largely women - i think he suffers from the societal conditions that teach him women are not to be taken seriously. for years it seems like dan believes his fandom is completely separate from his regular viewers and i don’t think that’s the case.
…
i find his tone is often more mansplaining than anything. and obviously take my words with a grain of salt. this is just my perception of dan and i actually do love him a lot for what he has done for me. i just find he doesn’t really want to examine his relationship to his fans and that severely stunts his communication with us. sometimes i wonder if he respected us more he would have given us a more solid goodbye from his youtube channel or at least an explanation for his absence.

So, yes. I’m not going to post my own thoughts just yet as I’m still having a good think myself, and honestly without further insight from Dan it might be impossible to come to a conclusion anyway, but what are y’all’s thoughts, if you’d like to share?

[Amiaw]

I don’t mean to derail from any conversations but I haven’t seen any talk about COTY and with the anniversary being tomorrow are there are watch parties planned?

[madzilla84]

Might be worth checking with smartinis on Twitter, he held one for BIG.

[Phanshy]

I find myself agreeing with a lot of the OPs points, Dan did seem to resent his audience at various times over the years, I'm not sure how much of that is down being pigeonholed because of having a larger female audience vs the nature of the most vocal part of the audience being involved in shipping him and Phil which he obviously wasn't comfortable with, some being incredibly intrusive in to their lives and some of the behaviour that has got the Phandom a bad reputation the most recent example being the YouTube charity live, where there was a lot of the comments were about Dan and Phil, don't get me wrong I was watching thinking who are these people, this is cringe, please just put Dan and Phil on so I can stop watching but I wasn't typing it in to chat for the other creators to see . I think if you look at some of the youtubers Dan has mentioned being a fan of/influenced by at the beginning of his time on YouTube they were people who had a more mixed or leaning towards a more male fan base (from my outsider perspective because I wasn't fans of them myself). I do however think Dan is in general quite condescending to everyone even Phil, at least on camera anyway.
I do personally think he wants to move on from his audience to what he perceives to be a more serious grown up audience, that is interested in what he creates and not about his personal life.

[glitterintheair]

I’ve always felt like Dan resented having a mainly female audience and I also think he craves approval from a male audience because he thinks Men Appreciate Quality More or that their opinion is more important because they care about the Content (implying that women who follow him don’t. Also odd thing to wish for since your job revolves around your personality and people connecting to you, but whatever). It reminds me of a tweet I read some time ago that was like “when a show has a mainly female audience, it gets dismissed because the audience is seen as a bunch of crazy fangirls, but when a show has mostly a male audience, it’s taken seriously”.
I don’t resent him for the things he did and said in the past because I too value actions over words, but yeah I have to admit that I’d really like for him to talk about his feelings on having a predominant female audience.

[blahblahblah8]

I could be totally wrong but in my opinion, those times where dan kinda lashed out at the audience had to do with many factors and I don’t think the gender of his audience was one. I think dan has mostly showed kindness and respect to his predominately female audience. Maybe not 100% of the time but while I wish I could be kind and respectful to the people I care about 100% of the time, I occasion say and do hurtful things. But I think that’s just human. I don’t think dan is trying to get rid of his audience. His lack of communication isn’t a good way to keep an audience but I see that as more of him trying to live his life for him without stressing to appease his audience rather than trying to change the demographic or something. I also find it strange that people are okay with the idea that dan was profiting off of an audience he resented for years. Maybe I’m dramatic but I think that’s vile and I really don’t think he would do that. But everyone else’s thoughts are valid too, this is just my perspective.

[Megancita75]

I've read some of the posts on misogyny and to me they are conflating two different things.

I do think it's very plausible that early in his YouTube career Dan had some misogyny toward female fans -- either because of ingrained social biases or because he wanted to have more interaction with guys in general because he's a guy. Certainly female-centric fandoms have generally been labeled as less valid or significant for a long time (I'm thinking of Beatles mania for example, and all the images of fainting girls). I also think YouTube was still relatively new then and most YouTube creators were trying to wrap their minds around what it meant to have fans and why certain types of fans would be interested in them. I absolutely think Dan has a complicated relationship with being the object of fandom interest, as I think any creator would, but I do think the Dan of more recent years has a much more evolved understanding of the value of fan spaces and of fans in general. I can't see any scenario is which someone who has spent years looking at fan art or other fan-created content, who has interacted online with fans, and who has met thousands of fans, would walk away from that experience dismissing all those people as not serious or creative or somehow lesser than just because the majority of those fans are women.

The part of the argument that I have trouble with, though, is then making the leap from "Dan has some misogynistic baggage" to "Dan hates female fans and this is why he's stopped interacting with us and left YouTube." To my mind this is a very illogical leap to make. There are so many other reasons for that behavior and I have a very hard time believing misogyny is in the top 10 reasons for that. From where I sit, Dan has shown over and over that he appreciates fans. What I see is that -- like many people who have done the same job for 10 years -- that he wants to try something else out professionally. Why people conflate that with a complete disavowal or dislike of his fans is honestly baffling to me. I think of my own professional life, for example, where I spent 6+ years deeply engaged in housing social policy and then just lost interest in that topic. I think back with fondness at that time in my life, and I miss some of that career and the people in it, but just because I left it doesn't mean that I don't see the value it had in my life.

So while I do think the conversation about misogyny is interesting and relevant in terms of discussing Dan's early career, I find that applying it to present-day Dan is more about grasping at straws to try and read his mind or extrapolate meaning from very thin evidence.

(I am interested, however, in why people seem to think that Dan has a larger or predominately male audience specifically on YouTube, as opposed to twitter or tumblr -- is there any actual data to back that up?)

[Megancita75]

Here's some of my favorite art so far:

[Amiaw]

There is so much good art today. Sad that the forum is dead for COTY but I hope Phil sees the art
and knows his coming out was as important as dan’s for the phandom

[alittledizzy]

There is so much good art today. Sad that the forum is dead for COTY but I hope Phil sees the art
and knows his coming out was as important as dan’s for the phandom

I think it was almost more important to me.

Dan's video was a journey, you know? But it was his journey. It was important to Dan that Dan tell his story... to us, but also to the world, and I think to himself.

Phil's video was... Phil actively choosing to let us, the audience, in on this thing in his life. Because he was ready for US to know and to open that door after multiple years of comfortable glass closet. And he did it in such a perfect Phil way, you know? I just love it. I love Phil. That's all, the end.

[blahblahblah8]

All the art looks beautiful! I appreciate phandom artists and Phil so much! Can’t wait to rewatch COTY tonight!