Dan & Phil Part 95: ASS (Aquarium Staff Seminar)

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Oh dear, this squeaked in at the end of the old post so people might miss it, sorry for the repeat:

Slightly off topic, sorry - I saw folks talking about a merch email but I didn’t get anything. Did anyone else get it? What did it say?
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lefthandedism
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From previous thread:
liola wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 2:53 pm
plinthofmylife wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 2:42 pm So....Rumors going around.

Dan's Good read profile has a book recently attached called "You Will Get Through This Night" with expected publication of May 18, 2021.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/533 ... this-night

Possibility that it was a clerical error but it sounds a LOT like a Dan title, and it's quite often for publishers to manage the upload work for authors, and it does sometimes happen ahead of publicity.
I gotta be honest, I know nothing about goodreads but I thought that it was a community based website? like with people uploading stuff and not publishers?

That's interesting though, it does sound like a Dan title but it seems a bit too early to post about it, more than a year in advance with no talk from him? I so wish it to be true, I've wanted a book from Dan for years, I think that is my number 1 wish project to come from him, wether it was biography or novel like (maybe not poetry, but that's my own preference) so i'm crossing everything i have that it's true and that he'll tell us soon :stan: :stan:

EDIT to say, didn't something similar happened like 2017 where one of them was credited a book but it was someone with the same title? am i hallucinating the memory? twitter is talking about wasps but i have no recollection of that actually
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From what I could tell on Twitter a few people had asked irl about the ‘have the courage to exist’ shirts, maybe others too, idk, and irl found some in the warehouse, but maybe only replied to them instead of a whole email. I’m not sure, I just don’t see anyone saying they got an email, only people saying they didn’t.

Book sounds interesting. Could be the same Dan Howell that wrote ‘Lost Country’, or another one again, they’re both common enough names. It’s a shame for him to have it leaked if it is, though.

Edit - yeah, there’s ‘The Vulgar Wasp’ by another Phil Lester. Someone pointed out that the way Twitter cropped the cover when they posted it (jokes along with the stalking/leaking discourse) it read ‘The Story of a Ruthless Invader and Ingenious Predator - Phil Lester’ which is hilarious.
Last edited by flarequake on Tue May 05, 2020 3:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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liola wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 2:53 pm

I gotta be honest, I know nothing about goodreads but I thought that it was a community based website? like with people uploading stuff and not publishers?

That's interesting though, it does sound like a Dan title but it seems a bit too early to post about it, more than a year in advance with no talk from him? I so wish it to be true, I've wanted a book from Dan for years, I think that is my number 1 wish project to come from him, wether it was biography or novel like (maybe not poetry, but that's my own preference) so i'm crossing everything i have that it's true and that he'll tell us soon :stan: :stan:

EDIT to say, didn't something similar happened like 2017 where one of them was credited a book but it was someone with the same title? am i hallucinating the memory? twitter is talking about wasps but i have no recollection of that actually

So, publishers definitely do put things on GR. Author's can as well if they are indie, but there's a team of Goodreads Librarians who do their best to manage things to make sure that mix ups or false things don't happen (that was phrased oddly). If this is fake, it'll get taken down. It's on Dan's GR profile that is obviously old -- TABINOF has a TON of ratings and he's still referred to as danisnotonfire in it. If you follow an author, this is highly visible.

To be honest, my books have often come up on GR before anything is announced. There are technical things involved on that end I don't know about honestly, but the upcoming anthology I have a story in for June showed up on GR months before announcement, AGES before publication (which hasn't even happened yet). I don't know that this is a leak so much as how business goes, especially with an imprint of a large publishing house (Harper Collins)
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Oh that is really interesting, thank you, I had no idea! Never used the website so I honestly never thought it was like... proper. TIL indeed.

I will keep hoping it's true then, because really, Dan has a way with words and i'm still amazed at The Urge, it shows he has actual writing experience, so maybe we won't have the full on vampire Phil story we deserve, but i'm excited nevertheless.
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flarequake wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 3:16 pm From what I could tell on Twitter a few people had asked irl about the ‘have the courage to exist’ shirts, maybe others too, idk, and irl found some in the warehouse, but maybe only replied to them instead of a whole email. I’m not sure, I just don’t see anyone saying they got an email, only people saying they didn’t.
Yeah, makes sense, I just saw screenshots of order pages and was very confused since they weren’t on the site. Maybe they sent links to private listings, idk. Bummer, I wanted the blanket as I missed out at xmas - hopefully they’ll do a proper restock one day, but I won’t hold my breath!
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I could absolutely see Dan releasing a book. Shutting himself away for over a year? That's very book-writing-Dan of him tbh. We also saw a leak like this except on Amazon for dapgo, didn't we? Granted that's Amazon and this is goodreads.

I'm leaning into the rumor being true, mostly because (a) I like being excited for something more definitive, (b) I'm hoping it's like... a memoir or something similar. That would be such an interesting read! And (c) it would also mean that for the next year he'd have to start marketing himself a bit more and maybe... oh, idk... exist online. Could be nice.
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just going to leave this here in honour of the new thread name also: dan book!? can't wait to read it, if it really is him and not some other author with the same name.
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liola wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 3:32 pm Oh that is really interesting, thank you, I had no idea! Never used the website so I honestly never thought it was like... proper. TIL indeed.

I will keep hoping it's true then, because really, Dan has a way with words and i'm still amazed at The Urge, it shows he has actual writing experience, so maybe we won't have the full on vampire Phil story we deserve, but i'm excited nevertheless.
for real. I think one of the spiciest takes I ever took was saying I much preferred Dan's story to Phil's. He has a way with words! I am excited if this all turns out to be true.
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Interesting! The book says it will be published by "Dey Street Books" and when I visit their website it says they are home to a Dan Harris, among others.

Back to Goodreads, Dan Harris wrote some similar sounding books: "10% Happier: How I Tamed the Voice in My Head..." and "Meditation for Fidgety Skeptics" which sound on theme with the title of the 2021 book under Dan's name. I wonder if that is the mixup? Same first name and initials.
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Judearaya wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 4:12 pm
liola wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 3:32 pm Oh that is really interesting, thank you, I had no idea! Never used the website so I honestly never thought it was like... proper. TIL indeed.

I will keep hoping it's true then, because really, Dan has a way with words and i'm still amazed at The Urge, it shows he has actual writing experience, so maybe we won't have the full on vampire Phil story we deserve, but i'm excited nevertheless.
for real. I think one of the spiciest takes I ever took was saying I much preferred Dan's story to Phil's. He has a way with words! I am excited if this all turns out to be true.
The Urge kind of makes me comfortable with how he'd write his relationship with Phil into a book now, too? Because like... god he was so delicate with it, respectful to the privacy they both wanted, while the entire premise of the book is how special his relationship with Phil was to him and his mourning and grief over losing it?? Also - talk about the ultimate "companions through life" lmao his story ended with he and Phil becoming immortal together.

Basically I think he's really capable of including Phil in a non-fiction book in a prominent way that doesn't downplay Phil's role in his life or his mental health journey, or whatever, without being using explicit relationship terms if he doesn't want to.
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A year out from publication for a big name release (which he would qualify as) is 100% where the publication schedule would be, but promotion won't start for another 9 months or so, usually it's done about 3 months in advance of publication but the announcement could happen now.

Very intrigued to see what will happen.
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alittledizzy wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 4:15 pm
Judearaya wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 4:12 pm
liola wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 3:32 pm Oh that is really interesting, thank you, I had no idea! Never used the website so I honestly never thought it was like... proper. TIL indeed.

I will keep hoping it's true then, because really, Dan has a way with words and i'm still amazed at The Urge, it shows he has actual writing experience, so maybe we won't have the full on vampire Phil story we deserve, but i'm excited nevertheless.
for real. I think one of the spiciest takes I ever took was saying I much preferred Dan's story to Phil's. He has a way with words! I am excited if this all turns out to be true.
The Urge kind of makes me comfortable with how he'd write his relationship with Phil into a book now, too? Because like... god he was so delicate with it, respectful to the privacy they both wanted, while the entire premise of the book is how special his relationship with Phil was to him and his mourning and grief over losing it?? Also - talk about the ultimate "companions through life" lmao his story ended with he and Phil becoming immortal together.

Basically I think he's really capable of including Phil in a non-fiction book in a prominent way that doesn't downplay Phil's role in his life or his mental health journey, or whatever, without being using explicit relationship terms if he doesn't want to.
I agree, I think he would be absolutely able to, I wonder if he would do it at all - I know lots of people are debating it because of how he talked about privacy in BIG, but I couldn't even imagine a book where he talked about his life or his experiences without including Phil, not because they have to be together absolutely, but because the way his life and his accomplishments have been they're 100% tied.

The Urge still makes me emotional when I think about it! :rainbowtears: Meanwhile Phil's story was just... chaotic energy in writing form. I think they took opposite approach on that and it showed haha
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So this book thing is pure speculation, but I am curious now about writing and publication processes in general -- so if anyone has direct experience with that, chime in.

For a publication date that far out, would that indicate the writing process is still happening? Like, I've been watching Hank Green talk about his process for his next novel, which is going to be published in a few months, and he's just recently finished the final edits to the book. So for something with a May 2021 publish date, that to me would indicate that the writing of the actual product is still in progress or in the very beginning stages (maybe like pitch drafts?). And if so, I just get anxiety thinking about that -- like on the one hand, I personally find that a deadline is always a good motivation to actually get work done but on the other hand, it has to get done!
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the title sounds like a dodie lyric.

i've always wanted dan to write a book...well not always but in the last few years. i hope this is true but it being a year out doesn't sit well with me, but that has nothing to do with dan ofc, just with the state of the world. it's very hard to think more than two weeks into the future right now.

yay
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Worth noting the writers' retreat Dan went on too. Lines up, folks. It lines up.
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Megancita75 wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 4:32 pm So this book thing is pure speculation, but I am curious now about writing and publication processes in general -- so if anyone has direct experience with that, chime in.

For a publication date that far out, would that indicate the writing process is still happening? Like, I've been watching Hank Green talk about his process for his next novel, which is going to be published in a few months, and he's just recently finished the final edits to the book. So for something with a May 2021 publish date, that to me would indicate that the writing of the actual product is still in progress or in the very beginning stages (maybe like pitch drafts?). And if so, I just get anxiety thinking about that -- like on the one hand, I personally find that a deadline is always a good motivation to actually get work done but on the other hand, it has to get done!
yeah i think i answered this on tumblr but have no idea how to make links but what I said was:

"So, my two cents. I could be wrong bc obviously I am in no way a comprable author (no one knows who I am lol). But. This book is probably in the editing stages. Generally you need months of lead time for reviews from places like Publishers Weekly. The review copies that go out aren’t perfect, we call them ARCs because they haven’t gone through the final line by line proofread for typos. But a publisher wants those out there generating excitement for the publication, and also, driving pre-sale."

That is pure speculation! I only have experience with two presses, and only know of the experiences of other authors through conversation etc. I don't know anything specific about how Harper Collins or their imprints work. So just me throwing things out there.
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I thought the BBC writers retreat was more about comedy for TV, but who knows.
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Someone posted a fake listing on GoodReads, I guess to prove it could be fan edited, so we'll see if that one gets removed and the other one stays? Not a fan of the technique they're using since the fake book they listed is kind of a fuck you to fans, but - it'll be a useful experiment either way.

Related: I'll never understand why people think it's stalking to view something on a website that literally exists for the public to be able to view those things. It's not like someone hacked the Harper Collins email system, you know?
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I do nonfiction, not fiction, and the process is very different depending on the genres and publishers, as is the timelines. I have slightly more insight into the process even though I'm small time because my agent is a very Big Deal in kids lit and has done a lot of massive kids books. Here's what I know:

The book would be in editing stage most likely now. Nonfiction needs more lead time than fiction or creative, usually, because there are more fact-checkers and layout involved in the process - TABINOF, for example, required a ton of layout due to the chaotic scrapbook nature of it.

Nonfiction books are usually not written before a pitch is accepted, whereas fiction books are usually written before a pitch is accepted (unless the author has previous successes or notoriety that would cause the book to be a likely commercial success regardless of quality lol.) Fiction pitches are a sample chapter and generally go through an agent. Nonfiction pitches will be a deck about the authors qualifications and notoriety, the market for the book and competitors, and the actual proposal for the book.

Your agent then reaches out to contacts at publishing houses or imprints that make sense for the book and that opens the conversation. Sometimes publishers will be an immediate obvious fit and will take the book. For my agent, it's about editor and author fit - she says it's important to go with the editor who will treat the book right. For someone like dan, she'd also want fit between the vision of the publisher as far as promotion and what dan is willing to do (i.e. would not want a publisher who wants to be like DAN WAS SECRETLY GAY ON THE INTERNET WITH HIS LOVER FOR 10 YEARS as a method of promotion for a book about mental health).

If multiple publishers want the book, there will be an auction - either open or closed, and they will be asked to submit offers based on what they are willing to pay. Sometimes there will be back and forth, and sometimes there will be "submit your best offer". This will not just include the $$ amount in advance and royalties, author digital and licensing rights, but also details about their plans for how many books to print, their promotion rough timelines, and the editor.

Usually you sign a deal 12-18 months out from publication date. Signing a deal begins the editing process, or the writing process in the case of something that isn't written yet. When ARCs go out ~1-3 months before pub date, they are still in the copyediting/formatting phase but there will usually not be changes to the content, just grammatical edits.

Is that helpful?
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alittledizzy wrote: Tue May 05, 2020 5:37 pm Related: I'll never understand why people think it's stalking to view something on a website that literally exists for the public to be able to view those things. It's not like someone hacked the Harper Collins email system, you know?
As someone who has like...actually been stalked and doxxed by people based on my internet presence. I just ??? at calling this stalking - this is not like doxxing someone or even spoiling content. This is barely even 1st level internet sleuthing. This is speculation based on a public consumer-facing database. If someone had found the release date for the new sherlock series published on IMDB ahead of a trailer being released, is that "stalking" and "spoiling" Benedict Cumberbatch's project? No. It's called fans being fans.

(It's also possibly not true at all, which is fine, but for the phandom's sake I'd really like if dan gave a few more hints about ~~project~~ because...well...ugh.)
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I really have been expecting Dan to come up with a book. BIG was so prosy, and with so many stories that could be further unpacked, I imagine the idea was presented to him right away to expand to a book. TABINOF was a bestseller, so his agent has probably been waiting all this time for the follow up. And yet it did seem like Dan’s first priority might have been something for performance (hence the BBC retreat, and the hinting at an NDA, and the Hollywood meetings). It’s fun to speculate about what the original plan was — something for TV? When Louise attended an event about YouTube/BBC crossover, there was a video of Dan on the wall ( in her Instastory), which made me think. Maybe that “postponed indefinitely” project has now been rejiggered to be a book. Or maybe the book was in the plans all along. I enjoy these speculations — not to be invasive, but just because the process of making a creative career is so interesting to me. There are so many paths to choose from at every stage.
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For anyone following that minor drama earlier.
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It’s also possible - perhaps likely - that Dan has more than one project in the works, simultaneously, rather than just one big thing, in much the same way TABINOF and TATINOF were cooking at the same time... I hope the book news is true because I’d love that, especially if it were - well, anything but poetry really (I’d read it, I might enjoy it, but it’s just - not what I’d want to see most from Dan’s mind, y’know), but there could just as easily be a series/show/whatever as well, hence the LA stuff etc.
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