Dan & Phil Part 96: AmazingPhil (and his cameraman)

[alittledizzy]

I'd love to talk a bit about Phil, since I find myself still thinking about his quiz show. I wonder how many ideas they've been throwing out there to see if they stick, and I'd love to know how many irons Phil has in the fire. In general, I'm fascinated with what it must be like to live in such a creative household, where I imagine the answer to most ideas is "yes, let's see what happens" rather than "no." Now that they are moving is separate career directions I also worry (project my anxieties, let's be real) if there is more potential for professional jealousy.

All of this is to say (1) is Glitch still a project? and (2) I am amped for Phil one day to announce a secret project because I find it so exciting to see what the heck he is up to. I'm surprised every time by what they both do and I like it.

The professional jealousy question intrigues me. It must be at a low for them, right? I think it probably makes a big difference that as similar as they are personality wise, they don't actually want the same kind of attention. I think Dan is all about wanting to be respected by peers and professionals and to really put things into the world that are intended on making the world, or at least the lives of some people, better. He wants to feel like there is truth in everything.

And Phil just wants to make some videos and make people laugh, you know? Which is also a form of trying to put good into the world but it's a more surface level feeling. I can't imagine Phil being jealous of Dan writing a soul-bearing mental health novel because I can't imagine Phil being comfortable facing an audience knowing they've had that good a look inside him. Their energies just seem to go different places; Phil can sustain shallower but longer connections that benefit what he's doing (social media regularly, videos regularly, engaging with fans on twitter regularly) and Dan has deeper but also more tumultuous connections (see... 2019-2020) that also, I would imagine to him creatively, benefit what he's doing.

Basically this is all tl;dr for: I don't think Phil would want to make whatever Dan is making, and I don't think Dan would want to make whatever Phil is making. So I think that probably lends to them feeling like they're cheering on a teammate they also happen to sexylove more than competing with a peer.

[Judearaya]

So, I've been thinking about stuff here and also other discourse about the content and the self-help aspect. And my own experiences with both CBT and DBT therapy. Now I cannot know or claim that Dan is utilizing or coming from either perspective bc I have no idea what kind of therapy he does etc. (part of this is inspired by the fact that people aren't terrifically happy with the promises offered in the blurb marketing stuff)

DISCLAIMER: just talking about my experiences. I'm not a professional.

BUT I will say, CBT therapy wasn't necessarily that helpful to me, but DBT therapy saved my life. And a HUGE part of that is because the structure of DBT with learning modules and actual worksheets to help you figure out things like how to communicate with people you love when there is conflict, how to asses what is most important for your well being in communication, learning to identify what your cycles of emotion look like in various circumstances in order to assess or understand the relationship between triggers and your behaviors, and really importantly, mindfulness and distress tolerance. Again, I'm not arguing Dan is using DBT or CBT or whatever.

So anyway, the reason this is relevant is because I find that people offering tools that have helped them can be really really helpful.

I've been lucky enough to a) stumble accross DBT in the middle of a mental breakdown,, b) go TO DBT therapy sessions an HOUR away from my home TWICE a WEEK because I had the means of transportation and health insurance that fully covers therapy and c) had tremendous family and friend support networks who helped me take care of my kids etc so I could do this.

A lot of people don't have part of or even any of that. They, if they're lucky, might find advice or helpful tools elsewhere. Fuck I've given people a shit ton of advice from things I've learned. I've even shared some of the communication and distress tolerance information or worksheets with people (I'm not claiming people are lucky to have me or anything. I'm just pointing out that often people who have learned tools for coping or managing or anything share what they've learned. That doesn't mean anothe person has to take that advice or anything).


Now, I'm not saying that all tools are for everyone. They aren't. But someone saying, *hey these things worked for me* doesn't mean they have to work for you or that I shouldn't be allowed to offer advice and share my experiences. Now I realize this is a book on a much larger scale with a much larger audience, AND that there's a lot of speculation about what will actually be included etc, but I just wanted to say that I don't feel like lines are being crossed or that people without degrees cannot offer advice. Especially if it's annectodal and offering stuff that has helped them. I guess maybe I don't understand necessarily what's going on with the he shouldn't argument -- are people afraid the book will cause harm? (geniune question). Is this like a "stay in your lane" thing? I also am newer to phandom so I missed how people might have reacted to Daniel and Depression, because I took a lot from that and also felt like Dan really balanced a message "of this is my experience, some things helped me, but I am not a professional" etc.

Sometimes, someone who has been a light in another persons life, or given them hope, or whose work/presence has meant a LOT to them can make a huge difference. I've heard a lot of stories from people who have said that Dan has helped them tremendously with his stories/work. Hopefully this is helpful too. And maybe there are people out there who don't know Dan or vaguely know him but who will find his humor and willingness to share and vulnerability helpful and who might walk away with some tools in their toolbox that can help (that btw was just a thing we called the skills we learned in our DBT group. Because the understanding is clearly that not everything will work for everyone, but it never hurts to have extra tools in your toolbox in case you need them one day).

I could probably have stated all of that more clearly or like, maybe it doesn't make sense, but I'm tired AF bc my kiddo was up last night feeling unwell and then having an anxiety spiral.

As for the blurb...I think this argument could go in circles (if he had a say). I mean Dan is a celebrity but I don't necessarily think that having 6 million followers means you get whatever you want when negotiating deals or books or whatever. I mean he clearly said in a tweet he is hoping to convince them to do the cover a particular way (embossed maybe?), which indicates negotiation etc. Regardless, I think that it's important to remember that his intended audience isn't ONLY his fans. Look at the categories he got to #1 in on amazon. People looking for that kind of book based on interest who aren't in fandom would have/will see that book on a suggested reading list and might buy it. I'll tell you for sure that if a book doesn't seem to match a category and it seems as though it was only included in it in order to get that orange banner in a disingenuous way (ok what is spelling?), people get really pissed. And a publisher is going to be strategic about these things because you want to recoup the cost of publishing a book, which is a huge investment on the part of those involved.

If he *didn't* get a say in the blurb, or even if he didn't have 100% control and was upset, at this point, he's also not going to complain about it on social media. That's self-sabotage. Sometimes you have to promo a thing as is. And I think his tweets went a long way toward clarifying and/or expanding on stuff in the blurb. I certainly felt like I understood better?

Anyway, really, at the end of the day, this book won't be for everyone and that's obviously fine. Self-help or annectodal type memoir stuff or a mix of it might definitely not be for you, and that's super valid. But I guess I struggle a bit with the argument that he doesn't have a right to or shouldn't write this sort of thing when I think it's pretty clear that he's done his due dilligence by having a professional help him out, we know Dan is thoughtful and does research, and also, I think he has every right to tell his story and say, these things helped me, maybe they'll help you? Or to even say, I have a story to tell and I learned these things and I want to share them because I hope they will help people *because I care*.

[snoopysadie]

i'm really not trying to be overly negative! i mostly trust dan. i'm really positive about phil's content later and am liking dan's return to the spotlight. but as someone who study, works with and researches about mental health, it bugs me

it's just bothers me a lot when people who don't study mental health write books about mental health (again, one thing is to write a book about their personal experience, another is to give advice).

people live in houses, but you don't see them writing books about civil construction just bc of it. people have lamps, but don't write books about electric engineering. for some reason, people think they can talk about mental health and give advice about it as it's not something people are studying a lot to understand and be able to talk about.

it's a lot like coaching or self help books. they do more damage than good bc a lot of people don't understand mental health is a science and should be treated as such.

you can't give "advice" on how to change thoughts and behaviors bc that's not how it works.

(this is not me saying you said this stuff snoopysadie! i'm just using your post to vent lmao)

Don't worry, I never thought that's what you were doing
I just wanted to let you know something positive so you wouldn't be so frustrated with the situation. I understand that this is clearly a topic you've dealt with before and it's alright to be skeptical, especially if it's a conversation you've had in the past.

You are totally in your right to be guarded, especially since this is a pattern you've seen before with other self-help books and ignorant people who preach incorrect information. I get it! If only you saw how I react when I see one of those ads that "debunks" teaching languages in the traditional way, and I look at the camera like I'm in the office because I haven't spent the last two years reading texts on first and second language acquisition in newborns for some fucktard on the internet to tell the general public that that is not how it works.

It's nice with the really bad JKR book announcement today (she's publishing an 800-page transphobic book) to have a positive book announcement.

I just read this and I am trying so hard not to let it weigh this heavy on my chest for the rest of the day. ugh. why. must she. keep trying to correct herself. she thinks people are going to give her more money? pfff.

All of this is to say (1) is Glitch still a project? and (2) I am amped for Phil one day to announce a secret project because I find it so exciting to see what the heck he is up to. I'm surprised every time by what they both do and I like it.

is it too annoying if i ask someone to explain about the Glitch project since I have 0 idea of what we're talking about?


(To close my opinion on the book, I just hope I can get it in my hands because rn it seems impossible to have a book published in the UK to get to my country :c)

[liola]

All I'm saying is that if someone has physical pains or some kind of physical illness, the advice would be to go to a doctor. And yes, I realize healthcare is a privilege for a lot of people and not everyone has the means or the support to look for professional mental health help - believe me, I know, I now can afford therapy but I spent years not being able to, since I couldn't go through NHS services. And I don't have family support because it's a stigma. So please do not think that just because someone is not into this book it's because they never had a problem with access to mental healthcare.

Advice can be helpful, but it can also not be. Me and my 2 bestfriends all have mental illness that look similar, but one advice that is helpful to me can be devastating and harmful for them - and i'm talking about advice given by a therapist. And viceversa.

There is, again, also a difference between a self-help book written by a professional compared to one written by someone that experiences mental health problems. No one is saying Dan can't share his experience, actually, most people are thrilled by that idea. It's the all "this might change your life" that doesn't sit right with some people, because.. how do you know? How can you make a promise like that? It's too much of a broad statement for such a delicate subject.

is it too annoying if i ask someone to explain about the Glitch project since I have 0 idea of what we're talking about?

We're talking about this . It was presented as "the Glitch hoodie is FINALLY here" but no one was expecting it. Plus the "to be continued" on the hoodie and the fact it was a collaboration with an artist, the first case for Phil's merch, and it is such a random piece that is standalone and seemingly out of character for the rest of Phil's merch, it all seemed like it was a hint to an incoming project.

[alittledizzy]

I'm not at all a Dan fan and have about 0 personal excitement for the book. But I find the whole conversation about how the only mental health advice should be "go to therapy and psychiatrist" incredibly, incredibly privileged, and honestly disrespectful. And that's coming from someone who worked with those specialists for years.

Sorry, not all of us can afford therapy. Some are young and need parental consent and financial support which may not be available. Some are adults but guess what, literally too poor to afford therapy. Some work in professions where your employment is T O A S T if you're found to have seeked mental health assistance. Some are in countries where mental health assistance are still in its infancy

In those circumstances, even a corny self help book or song can help

Basically, wtf

I appreciate this point. I don't have depression, I have anxiety, but I am in that category of people that can't afford therapy. Through my insurance I can still get anxiety medication but in terms of actual therapy that's more than a 15 minute call every six months to make sure the medication isn't fucking me up and it still works okay, I have no real options. So yeah - I'm exactly the type of person that has found some use out of resources written by people that have been where I am that doesn't have the price tag of a therapist. I've picked up coping mechanisms from them. Sometimes they work alright. Sometimes they don't work at all. Sometimes they work conditionally. In most cases I just try things out and if it doesn't work I know that wasn't for me.

Anyway, that's bordering on too personal I guess, but I just wanted to bring this point to the new page because somehow even though that's basically my situation I hadn't quite put that thought together and I appreciate the insight.

[Judearaya]

Advice can be helpful, but it can also not be. Me and my 2 bestfriends all have mental illness that look similar, but one advice that is helpful to me can be devastating and harmful for them - and i'm talking about advice given by a therapist. And viceversa.

I totally agree with this -- I also have a mental illness that looks a lot like others and the wrong treatment can be incredibly dangerous. That said, we have no idea what advice will be given, but I have a hard time thinking that this is the sort of advice that will be offered here, particularly with the help of a trained professional. But at the end of the day we're all sort of speculating, so really we'll all see when the book comes out.

There is, again, also a difference between a self-help book written by a professional compared to one written by someone that experiences mental health problems. No one is saying Dan can't share his experience, actually, most people are thrilled by that idea. It's the all "this might change your life" that doesn't sit right with some people, because.. how do you know? How can you make a promise like that? It's too much of a broad statement for such a delicate subject.

I mean...no one knows, there are no promises, but it might? And someone has to market this book and that includes talking it up. I mean I also took that statement with a grain of salt like, okay the whole life changing thing feels a bit much but I guess I just am not having a super strong negative reaction to it, which is definitely a personal thing and to each their own.

[glitterintheair]

Honestly the thing that still puzzles me is how Dan said in Daniel and Depression “I’m not a professional, don’t listen to me, listen to an expert, this is just what I’ve done” and then writes a self help book “very informative and that might change your life” which kind of contradicts the previous statement, because he’s basically saying “this book will help you. Listen to me”. And while I appreciate that he’s working with a psychologist, I don’t still quite understand what’s actually her role here; if we take what Dan said on twitter as nothing but truth, then she doesn’t actively collaborate in the writing, she’s just there to give her approval on what Dan writes, meaning that HE’s the one giving advice and teaching, not the expert. I don’t know, I guess I am curious to know what was his thought process behind this.

[alittledizzy]

[Megancita75]

Honestly, all the different interpretations of the few nuggets of info we have to go on is so fascinating to me. My interpretation of the blurb that says he will be working "in conjunction with a psychologist" and some of his twitter replies is that he's going to be talking about his own journey but will be using those examples to illustrate certain approved/widely accepted techniques to deal with depression/anxiety and that this psychologist will be making sure that he's representing those tools accurately from a clinical perspective. Like, "here is my personal experience with anxiety and how I learned to reframe negative self-talk or catastrophizing and here are some of the science-based reasons this coping tool might be helpful to some people" and the psychologist will make certain that's an accurate representation of why that might be a proven modality. To me that seems like a reasonable approach and honestly a step above and beyond what other personal stories I've seen marketed as self-help go. I don't see Dan positioning himself as any kind of expert at all, and I don't think it's uncommon for people to write books that are marketed as self-help that are basically some flavor of "this is what helped me, I am not an expert, your mileage may vary, but I am really enthusiastic about this approach and it might help you too or even change your life." There might even be footnotes and citations!

We've got 9 months to wait, so I think right now I'm more interested in what might roll about between now and then.

(Edited to add: John Green has a book coming out the same month as Dan's, and he said in a recent video that he's putting a pause on producing his monthly podcast to concentrate on writing the book, so that makes me wonder how much bandwith Dan will have to work on other stuff.)

[Judearaya]

you said that so much better than i could think it!!

[casualsun]

Honestly, all the different interpretations of the few nuggets of info we have to go on is so fascinating to me. My interpretation of the blurb that says he will be working "in conjunction with a psychologist" and some of his twitter replies is that he's going to be talking about his own journey but will be using those examples to illustrate certain approved/widely accepted techniques to deal with depression/anxiety and that this psychologist will be making sure that he's representing those tools accurately from a clinical perspective. Like, "here is my personal experience with anxiety and how I learned to reframe negative self-talk or catastrophizing and here are some of the science-based reasons this coping tool might be helpful to some people" and the psychologist will make certain that's an accurate representation of why that might be a proven modality. To me that seems like a reasonable approach and honestly a step above and beyond what other personal stories I've seen marketed as self-help go. I don't see Dan positioning himself as any kind of expert at all, and I don't think it's uncommon for people to write books that are marketed as self-help that are basically some flavor of "this is what helped me, I am not an expert, your mileage may vary, but I am really enthusiastic about this approach and it might help you too or even change your life." There might even be footnotes and citations!

We've got 9 months to wait, so I think right now I'm more interested in what might roll about between now and then.

(Edited to add: John Green has a book coming out the same month as Dan's, and he said in a recent video that he's putting a pause on producing his monthly podcast to concentrate on writing the book, so that makes me wonder how much bandwith Dan will have to work on other stuff.)

Strongly agree with all of this!

Also wanted to add that Dan is saying the book could change your life, not that it will definitely change your life. Imo that’s a clear difference, and I think it’s fair to think that somebody’s life could be changed by it. We still know so little about mechanisms of behavior change through therapy; most therapeutic techniques are not empirically supported, and even ones that are, like CBT, do not work for everyone. If someone isn’t having success through usual avenues I think it’s fine to look to a book for support.

When I was a teenager, I was sent to a therapist by my parents, and since I didn’t want to be there I ignored everything the therapist said. I might have listened to someone I looked up to, though. I’m sure many teenagers who look up to Dan may listen to his advice but not the advice of a professional — Dan can get through to them when others perhaps cannot. I also agree with earlier posters that it’s important to remember that many people do not have access to therapy for numerous reasons. Therefore, I think it’s okay to say that the book could be impactful and helpful to people, even though Dan isn’t a professional. Of course, it’s a long time until the book comes out so we can’t know anything for certain.

[Kurapika]

(if i'm getting too off-topic for the main thread, pls warn me and i'll move this to somewhere else!)

I'm not at all a Dan fan and have about 0 personal excitement for the book. But I find the whole conversation about how the only mental health advice should be "go to therapy and psychiatrist" incredibly, incredibly privileged, and honestly disrespectful. And that's coming from someone who worked with those specialists for years.

Sorry, not all of us can afford therapy. Some are young and need parental consent and financial support which may not be available. Some are adults but guess what, literally too poor to afford therapy. Some work in professions where your employment is T O A S T if you're found to have seeked mental health assistance. Some are in countries where mental health assistance are still in its infancy

In those circumstances, even a corny self help book or song can help

Basically, wtf

I appreciate this point. I don't have depression, I have anxiety, but I am in that category of people that can't afford therapy. Through my insurance I can still get anxiety medication but in terms of actual therapy that's more than a 15 minute call every six months to make sure the medication isn't fucking me up and it still works okay, I have no real options. So yeah - I'm exactly the type of person that has found some use out of resources written by people that have been where I am that doesn't have the price tag of a therapist. I've picked up coping mechanisms from them. Sometimes they work alright. Sometimes they don't work at all. Sometimes they work conditionally. In most cases I just try things out and if it doesn't work I know that wasn't for me.

Anyway, that's bordering on too personal I guess, but I just wanted to bring this point to the new page because somehow even though that's basically my situation I hadn't quite put that thought together and I appreciate the insight.

i 100% understand and agree with you guys. most psychotherapies are expensive and a lot of the population can't afford it in most capitalist countries. this is actually a topic i discuss a lot in my study groups and that deeply touches me, as i find very hard to make myself charge high prices for therapy when other professionals don't get to do that. it's elitist. i agree.

that being said, the solution, even short-term, isn't to have people who don't study it (doing therapy isn't studying psychology) try to teach other people about it. it's dangerous.

it's a lot like doing a suicide awareness month/week, and people saying "if you feel like this, come and talk to me!". no. giving "advice" to vulnerable people is dangerous and irresponsible if it's not your line of work (tbh, even if it is! don't trust psychologists who give "advice" via instagram direct).

am i saying every self help book is shit? not exactly? am i saying talking about mental health in general is bad? not at all. we should talk about it. we should raise awareness of topics related to it. but we need to be very careful of how we do it and where we go to search for it.

then again, maybe dan's book is nothing like this. we don't know yet. still, i think it's a valid discussion to have either way.

we don't have regular people who don't study medicine do surgeries on poor people bc they can't afford a doctor. we don't have regular people who don't study chemistry or pharmacy mixing in products to create pills for people who can't afford buying them. we can talk about those topics. we shouldtalk about those topics. but we shouldn't act like they're a replacement for the actual thing.

[Templeofshame]

No one is saying Dan can't share his experience, actually, most people are thrilled by that idea. It's the all "this might change your life" that doesn't sit right with some people, because.. how do you know? How can you make a promise like that? It's too much of a broad statement for such a delicate subject.

This is my concern with the repeated use of generalities, "everyone," etc. in all of the info we have so far. We don't all have the same problems and we don't all need or have access to the same solutions (and great posts have been made about how general "mental health" is and the issue of trying to help people in crisis with the same book as people who are just interested). I understand that he and his publisher want a broad audience and to sell a book to as many people as possible, but personally, I would be a lot more comfortable if the same content were being presented as potentially helpful for specific problems, specific levels of severity, or just... presented as something that could help some people rather than for Everyone Because Everyone Has Mental Health. One size just doesn't fit all, y'know?

(I have a lot of the same concerns about other folks about the risks of giving mental health advice to vulnerable people you don't know even if the advice-giver is the psychologist. I'm sure the professional involved is well aware of those risks and I hope that they produce something together that helps some people and doesn't harm others. It's interesting that her professional focus seems to be on workplace mental health; I'm not sure how it works in the UK but I hope it's a whole lot better than my experience with EAP therapy programs in the US. Now I'm getting off-topic but also curious about workplace mental health in the UK.)

[snoopysadie]

No one is saying Dan can't share his experience, actually, most people are thrilled by that idea. It's the all "this might change your life" that doesn't sit right with some people, because.. how do you know? How can you make a promise like that? It's too much of a broad statement for such a delicate subject.

This is my concern with the repeated use of generalities, "everyone," etc. in all of the info we have so far. We don't all have the same problems and we don't all need or have access to the same solutions (and great posts have been made about how general "mental health" is and the issue of trying to help people in crisis with the same book as people who are just interested). I understand that he and his publisher want a broad audience and to sell a book to as many people as possible, but personally, I would be a lot more comfortable if the same content were being presented as potentially helpful for specific problems, specific levels of severity, or just... presented as something that could help some people rather than for Everyone Because Everyone Has Mental Health. One size just doesn't fit all, y'know?

(I have a lot of the same concerns about other folks about the risks of giving mental health advice to vulnerable people you don't know even if the advice-giver is the psychologist. I'm sure the professional involved is well aware of those risks and I hope that they produce something together that helps some people and doesn't harm others. It's interesting that her professional focus seems to be on workplace mental health; I'm not sure how it works in the UK but I hope it's a whole lot better than my experience with EAP therapy programs in the US. Now I'm getting off-topic but also curious about workplace mental health in the UK.)

Personally, I think that without enough information I can't really say anything about the book.

But maybe if the problem is the words being used to promote the book being potentially harmful and misleading and you think it's important that Dan clarifies the general public what his book will actually do and needs a disclaimer, you should tweet to him?
Hopefully he hasn't closed all social media again so maybe if people approach the matter respectfully (as in not insulting him, which I'm not saying you would but we all have seen people do) he will see the problem and clarify.

Still, if I had to guess how the book starts I would think he is going to include a disclaimer.

[alittledizzy]

Apparently Phil followed a photographer this morning that, according to varying reports I've read, is a wedding photographer but also posts abs? He already unfollowed so I'm guessing it was a finger slip.

[alittledizzy]

we don't have regular people who don't study medicine do surgeries on poor people bc they can't afford a doctor. we don't have regular people who don't study chemistry or pharmacy mixing in products to create pills for people who can't afford buying them. we can talk about those topics. we shouldtalk about those topics. but we shouldn't act like they're a replacement for the actual thing.

I do get your point. I definitely do. But I feel like... I mean, we don't have regular people do surgeries, but people who have gone through a specific surgery do talk about it and advise other people on if it really helped them or not, what was useful prep for it, what the recovery was like. People who don't study chemistry or pharmacy don't create pills, but the first thing I do when I'm going to take something new is look up what people who aren't my doctor say about it, people who have taken the pill and can give me first hand perspective on how it works. I guess to me that's exactly what Dan's book will be doing? It'll be taking his experiences and relaying them to people that may be looking for exactly that, advice from someone who has been through the journey himself. The fact that he does have a qualified doctor reading and signing off on it feels like exactly the due diligence that I'd expect (and would actually question him using his platform for a book on this without). Nothing in this makes me think Dan is going to say "I am exactly as qualified as a therapist and you need absolutely nothing beyond this book." which is how I feel some people are interpreting it.

[Amiaw]

Apparently Phil followed a photographer this morning that, according to varying reports I've read, is a wedding photographer but also posts abs? He already unfollowed so I'm guessing it was a finger slip.

He did and it’s really ironic that he unfollowed right after people started talking about the account on Twitter.
Poor guy always accidentally liking tweets about engagement or following wedding photographers. I’m going to believe it was accidental because the other alternative is that Phil sees everything and after him showing us the David Boreanaz picture in this last video I’m already a little suspicious

[gnostic]

too many people posted on this so i don't want to quote everyone since points are more or less the same

the difference is, when people are in some sort of physical ailment, in most countries (shout out to America) they can get a form of free healthcare, even if it's not perfect. Mental healthcare is not this way in most countries.

NHS is my BOI but we tried to get free mental health resources for an actively suicidal BPD friend of mine. yeah. we got zero. So we, friends, had to drag said friend through weeks of suicidal state. My disorder is very similar to BPD, so I shared advice. My friends shared useful podcasts since he responded to them. And this is not some isolated personal anecdotes. Like it or not, there are loads of people who DO NOT have access to mental healthcare. So they may at least try to get other forms of advice, be it even from someone sharing a similar experience and illustrating their point (which is what i think dan's book is going to be). So it's either try what you CAN try or just sit on your ass and do nothing.

In this situation, an idol like Dan sending out a supportive message that things WILL get better can mean the world. I know it. I've been there (not with Dan).

[inanerat]

I have to say, while I have personal issues with criticism and negativity that can cause me to feel down, I really, really appreciate all this discussion and think there's so many different and important points that have been made by everyone.

I agree that listening to experts and seeking professional advice is an important thing to mention and encourage, however I'm also totally in agreement that having access to that, especially as an LGBTQ+ person is a privilege and not something everyone can do. And, even among professionals, experiences are a mixed bag. While I have had great therapists, etc. in my life that have helped save my life, the words of a mental health professional highly revered in my area as well as my experience being taken to the hospital for depression have been some of the most harmful and traumatizing experiences of my life.

How to give advice and try to help people in this area is a murky grey zone to navigate, and I definitely think there are ways to go about it that would easily cross lines. Dan knows he has an audience that he is very influential to and that go through a lot of different things, it is clear that he is actively aware of the challenges of what he is doing. Personally, I don't think my feelings on this will ever be entirely one way or the other, I absolutely anticipate having my gripes with certain things while enjoying and really appreciating others.

As I said a while ago I think the tone of how the book actually goes about it will make a lot of difference. And regardless of how much input or not Dan had over the blurb, I regard anything related to trying to market something with many grains of salt. Also, I think the 'might' in 'might change your life' is key. There's a difference between providing suggestions and explanations of what have been personally helpful to oneself and others that you could try to see if they are helpful to you versus telling someone to do something and that it absolutely will help them or is the right thing for them. With as little as we know, I feel like both are on the table and again it comes to waiting and seeing on how the tone turns out.

Personally, I'm not expecting to get tons from the skills/tools/advice/whatever you want to call it part of the book. After being in many different kinds of therapy over the last 7 (?? really that many, jesus) years including CBT, 2 types of DBT, one-on-one and group therapy there's not many basic skills/tools/ideas I haven't come across. I do always appreciate new perspectives though, and as I relate very closely to some of the aspects of mental health that Dan has talked about in regards to himself, I am looking forward to read more of his thoughts and experiences.

Nice on Dan from a career perspective that the amazon pre-order has done so well and he's high up or topping ( ) in several categories. I was thankful to have the option to order through Dan's shop site mostly because I hate amazon with a burning passion for many reasons and avoid spending money through them whenever possible, but I also understand that, without being signed, and probably being available through prime, going through amazon makes it cheaper enough that it can be a bit more accessible to more people. While the signature is more of a bonus to me since I would spend the extra money to spitefully avoid amazon anyway, I do low-key look forward to adding it to my small collection of signed books from queer and trans authors that mean a lot to me. I may be a little thing, but it's something that's very precious and personal to me. While I love the cover design of the book, I think I will probably end up recycling the bookmark 'cause it's pretty bland and I won't ever use it.

Re: Phil, I am also curious and excited for what he has in store, as I'm sure there are things! Just like Dan hinted at this not being the only thing he has in the works right now, I think we should know better than to think either of them are ever not working on anything. They've always both had ideas brewing and different projects at different levels going on. While stressful, and I'm sure somewhat complicated to manage, it serves them well and has also been a way for them to not 'put all their eggs in one basket' project wise, which when you have a creative career, is important imo. Theme of the week, but I guess we'll have to wait and see. I do anticipate we will get a Dan book shoutout of some kind in Phil's next video though, king of spon is usually also happy to spon his life companion.

Oh, and on professional jealousy, I completely agree with Dizzy, with their careers being way more similar, and also comparable through numbers, before than now I can't really see them harboring much jealousy. If they ever had issues with that it's something they would've had to have worked through a long time ago to get to where they are now. While they've seemed to get jealous sometimes over other people being more attentive/flirty to one of them when they're in the same video, I've never gotten anything but supportive vibes from them towards eachother, especially around projects.

What Dan said about being a thicc block of text kind of guy? I'm feeling very called out by that right now, jeez.

[Kurapika]

we don't have regular people who don't study medicine do surgeries on poor people bc they can't afford a doctor. we don't have regular people who don't study chemistry or pharmacy mixing in products to create pills for people who can't afford buying them. we can talk about those topics. we shouldtalk about those topics. but we shouldn't act like they're a replacement for the actual thing.

I do get your point. I definitely do. But I feel like... I mean, we don't have regular people do surgeries, but people who have gone through a specific surgery do talk about it and advise other people on if it really helped them or not, what was useful prep for it, what the recovery was like. People who don't study chemistry or pharmacy don't create pills, but the first thing I do when I'm going to take something new is look up what people who aren't my doctor say about it, people who have taken the pill and can give me first hand perspective on how it works. I guess to me that's exactly what Dan's book will be doing? It'll be taking his experiences and relaying them to people that may be looking for exactly that, advice from someone who has been through the journey himself. The fact that he does have a qualified doctor reading and signing off on it feels like exactly the due diligence that I'd expect (and would actually question him using his platform for a book on this without). Nothing in this makes me think Dan is going to say "I am exactly as qualified as a therapist and you need absolutely nothing beyond this book." which is how I feel some people are interpreting it.

absolutely! like i said, it's important that everyone talks about mental health, shares experiences about treatments, about how they deal with illnesses, about their struggles and all that. i think that's super important and should always happen!

also, i'd like to point that i don't know how dan's book's gonna be like. this is not me speaking specifically about it, but talking about the topic about mental health books in general. i mostly trust dan. he usually has a good judgment about how to talk about things. his video about depression is a good example. but, as we're talking about this topic and it's something i feel strongly about, i'm sharing my thoughts.

and yes, the fact there's a psychologist helping him is awesome and i'm very curious about how it'll play off.

what i am saying though, as someone who lives and breathes psychology most days (last months of college plus so many side projects i'm hating myself for spending time on idb instead of studying like i should be lol), is that sharing advice about mental health, talking about changing behavior and thoughts, when the only experience you have is your own, can be extremely dangerous.

NHS is my BOI but we tried to get free mental health resources for an actively suicidal BPD friend of mine. yeah. we got zero. So we, friends, had to drag said friend through weeks of suicidal state. My disorder is very similar to BPD, so I shared advice. My friends shared useful podcasts since he responded to them. And this is not some isolated personal anecdotes. Like it or not, there are loads of people who DO NOT have access to mental healthcare. So they may at least try to get other forms of advice, be it even from someone sharing a similar experience and illustrating their point (which is what i think dan's book is going to be). So it's either try what you CAN try or just sit on your ass and do nothing.

there are plenty of professionals sharing thoughts on platforms like podcasts, blog posts and videos. it's great! i listen and read to a lot of this content as well. mental health shouldn't be something we only talk about in a private clinic.

i know countries like the usa have a harder time with health care (fuck capitalism tbh), and finding a good and affordable psychotherapist can be hard and next to impossible in some areas.

in spite of that, i stand by the fact that this is not an excuse for people who don't study psychology/psychiatry/neurology to give "advice" about mental health that goes beyond their personal experience with it. talk about it? sure! ask questions? absolutely! get tons of money from selling books and courses teaching things you don't even know yourself? no.

(again, i'm not saying this is what dan is doing. i don't know what the book is about yet. i'm talking about the topic in general)

[plinthofmylife]

I'd love to talk a bit about Phil, since I find myself still thinking about his quiz show. I wonder how many ideas they've been throwing out there to see if they stick, and I'd love to know how many irons Phil has in the fire. In general, I'm fascinated with what it must be like to live in such a creative household, where I imagine the answer to most ideas is "yes, let's see what happens" rather than "no." Now that they are moving is separate career directions I also worry (project my anxieties, let's be real) if there is more potential for professional jealousy.

I might be mildly qualified to answer this question as someone who both me and my SO are self-employed creators - though we rarely collaborate together in a public way so we never had the decoupling that DNP are going through. We're in very different niches but we both make our living from internet content.

We're both constantly trying out projects + business ideas, and regularly having projects kinda peter out or fail. What is helpful is we both understand the business, and can help one another. For example, we have totally different agents given we're in different industries, but we can look at one another's book deals. I often act at the negotiator for my SO's brand deals because I'm better at that. But they put a lot of unpaid labor into doing server administration for my online community. We also get to share equipment, which means we can have nicer stuff like mics and cameras and rigs. I launched a tea line, and my SO did the packaging design. Etc.

Sometimes I DO get professional jealousy. I have a much bigger audience but am in a much lower-paying niche (lower CPMs and more of my content is focused on radio/audio instead of video which pays less) and it can be hard to sometimes remember that I am very proud of my SO when they create something, or get a big media deal, or have a six-figure year. The most frustrating thing can be when I've tried out a product/strategy and put a lot of energy into it, but have less financial success than my SO does with a similar product. But I also recognize that we're in different niches and want different things - like alittledizzy said. Like, my SO would NOT be excited about writing the book proposal my agent is shopping around, and I would be incapable of doing the series they're filming. So it's just reminding myself of that.

Anyway, that being said, I am ALSO eager to know how many irons in the fire Phil has.

[Megancita75]

plinthofmylife, I love it every time you post business/creator insights. I just am so interested in people whose life's work involves so much expected failure. I was watching the Brie Larson YouTube channel and she said something in a recent video about how being an actor is experiencing 99% failure and I just have to hand it to anyone who has the mental and emotional fortitude to withstand that, though I suppose for a lot of creatives it's the process that matters maybe sometimes more than the end result?

[rizzo]

dan being dan:

also ig stories:

[flarequake]

I’d love to know what workplace mental health support is. So far for me it was lip service and lol, bye. DBT does sound interesting but the talking therapy service is basic, I don’t know where psychologists in the NHS are now, in early 2000s they were there, but now very little. When I had the money my NLP life coach was amazing.

[inanerat]

dan being dan:

also ig stories:

Conspiracy theory: Dan's lacy instagram picture was actually a secret spon with This Night the premiere adult dating website.