If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

[ultraviolet]

^ I agree with a lot of what you've said in this thread, though I suppose I'm more of a phanagnostic, with my pendulum swaying between yes, definitely a couple, and no, they aren't a couple/were in the past, but not anymore, at any given time. (Also, I don't like the term "shipping" relating to real people for *me* personally, as I could never read fanfic/fanart between real people, but I like conspiracy theories about people's private relationships, so... Again, no shade on people who like fanfic/fanart, and call themselves shippers, I just don't think the terms fit me.)

Don't get me wrong, I'm very suspicious of the 2009ish stuff. And I haven't watched the V-day video, but I read a transcript and seen screenshots... and while some people think it's not sincere enough, it seems OVERLY sincere to me to be a prank. I feel like if Dan & Phil wanted to do a prank video, they'd make it more on the ridiculous side to make it obvious it was a prank? I know their "excuses" were that it felt too harsh, and if that's truly the case, I agree due to the sincerity, but still, I feel like Dan & Phil would have organically chosen a different approach if they chose to go a "tease the shippers" route. Idk, tl;dr I can't shake that the video couldn't have been a prank.

On the other hand, 2012 Dan's aggressive denials still stick to the back of my mind. Some of things he said were really quite harsh, and even if it was a lie to cover up the relationship, I would personally be really hurt if someone chose to cover up our relationship that way. Like, didn't he say we had no idea how people in their private life think it's funny and such a joke? It's one thing to say "we're not dating" and another thing to call it a joke and also imply sucking Phil off would be like giving your grandmother oral. It wasn't a slam on Phil, but I also just can't imagine why you'd say something like that about your partner even in reply to a trolly question? (I have a tiny theory that Dan reacted this way because perhaps Phil privately wasn't dealing with the fallout from the V-day video well, and it was his way to lash out at people "nagging" them?)

And frankly, a lot of stuff people give as non-platonic evidence (ex. living together, going on trips together, little touches, some things said in 2009) is stuff I personally do with my platonic best friend! I've done a lot of things with my BFF that I hold dear to my heart, and will forever, have spoken very sentimentally of them, have spoken very excitedly about getting to visit them... but I do not wish to be in any sort of romantic of sexual relationship with them... ever, lol. Sometimes I find people denying these behaviors as strictly platonic quite offensive, because you CAN love someone deeply and not want to be a romantic partner to them, or that a deep platonic friendship CAN'T be the most meaningful relationship someone has in their lifetime.

But ultimately, the biggest reason I have to not "ship" Dan & Phil... is how utterly TIRING it would be to hide these things. That's not to say it's not possible to hide it at all; I think back to the comedian Todd Glass who, for more years than Dan & Phil, insisted his partner was his roommate and nothing more, even with his close friends. And Dan & Phil are arguably more in the public eye than Todd Glass, where every movement they make is analyzed. Glass had slipped up sometimes (I think he admitted some instances in some podcasts, been a while tho and I could be misremembering), but Dan & Phil seemingly have not.

It's very hard to believe that after 7ish years, no one has seen Dan & Phil hold hands or even touch each other in an undeniably affectionate way. (Not small shoulder brushes or pushing through a crowd.) If they feel they have to hide their affections, platonic or romantic, that is truly sad, but I can't shake the feeling that they have nothing TO hide because nothing was there in the first place. It kind of goes with my point about platonic friendship as well; even if they did share affectionate gestures, it doesn't mean it's romantic. Coupled with them and the people close to them in their lives denying they are a couple (I know people can lie, but actions are louder than words), it just adds together that maybe they are just best friends.

Now, don't count me as a strictly non-"shipper"... I have a lot of counterpoints to my own points lol, and would like to hear any from others. (:

[mysterylovescompany]

I feel like if Dan & Phil wanted to do a prank video, they'd make it more on the ridiculous side to make it obvious it was a prank?

Just saying ...

I mean ... you could argue that voldy made D&P who they are today and changed their view of prank videos, but I totally agree. It isn't their style at all. There weren't even any phan shippers to speak of at that point. I've seen the v-day vid and my impression was that it was way too sincere and heartfelt to not be real. I felt as though I were watching a private love letter from Phil to Dan, and made me a bit guilty for intruding. It also turned around my view of phan
(I was originally for platonicphan, at that time I was phanagnostic and now I am phan ).

[ultraviolet]

I feel like if Dan & Phil wanted to do a prank video, they'd make it more on the ridiculous side to make it obvious it was a prank?

Just saying ...

I mean ... you could argue that voldy made D&P who they are today and changed their view of prank videos, but I totally agree. It isn't their style at all. There weren't even any phan shippers to speak of at that point. I've seen the v-day vid and my impression was that it was way too sincere and heartfelt to not be real. I felt as though I were watching a private love letter from Phil to Dan, and made me a bit guilty for intruding. It also turned around my view of phan
(I was originally for platonicphan, at that time I was phanagnostic and now I am phan ).

Exactly! It's all so nuanced, and confirmation bias is totally a thing as brought up before, but there are some things where it just doesn't add it all together for me, the V-day vid being the big factor. It just feels so..... not a video they'd make for a prank, even at that time imo.

There's too many things where I just can't be strictly one or the other, tho I will say I am >50% more so than not, lol.

[corn flakes]

Also, this is a question I have for all the anti/agnostics: why is the fact they say they are not a couple a strong argument? I'm genuinely curious to know why you believe it's unlikely that they'd lie to us. I see this over and over in blogs like phanantiproof, and it makes no sense to me. They lied about having met through a mutual friend, for example. I don't see why some people think they wouldn't lie to us about their relationship status, when we are just their audience. It's such a weak argument to me. To my mind there are much stronger ones, for example the difficulty in keeping the relationship a secret for so long.

Like already said now I'm much more phan-indifferent, like danisnotonphil said they could be a couple or not, I don't think they deceived people, so I don't care till they announce a partner or that they are a couple.
For me the fact that they said they are not a couple while not a strong proof is not something that I'll dismiss only because they lied in the past. Who I am to doubt it? Every single thing pro or anti phan could be easily read how you want it, your own bias, at the end I'm not into them because of a possible love story but because I like their relationship and sense of humor.
The strongest evidence should be voldy but I watched it by casuality on yt, didn't even search for it, and expected to change my opinion to probs phan is real, instead I found it fake. This togheter with time made me care less about the issue, the fact that they don't repeat now that they are not a couple doesn't mean anything to me as after a while you get tired of shouting and decide ignoring some issues is better, let people talk.The fact that no one saw them holding hands&co with each other or someone is not proof in any direction.
For me they are soulmates, did they have something at first?maybe? do they now? who cares, as long as they don't reveal that their whole friendship is fake.

Edit:now I didn't read all the stuff of 2012 but some of the harsh responses would be justified with his desire to wanted to believed. His comments regarding Phil 1)if phan is/was true: phil is not a kid and probs they decided togheter how to act, why I would be hurt if I know it's not true? 2)if phan never/is not: again Phil was ok with it, only that his attitude is more to ignore the issue and strike the video.

[Sakura Selfie]

Hi,while I agree with some of the things you said and I'm much more phan-indifferent, how do you explain voldy? I don't exclude that something may have happened but certainly that didn't change my position on the topic, as phanagnostic.
Also I don't think the majority of us is losing sleep over the issue but we are simply curious and in a deppy forum

I don't have to explain voldy, but since you ask, i'll try. I do agree with one of the arguments on this thread, sorry i don't remember who posted it and can't check rn, but i can imagine them going "hey it's valentine's soon, there's this shipping thing, let's make a video and joke about it" but then deciding maybe it looked too convincing and people on the internet are dense af and many would think it was real, so uploading on April's Fool became an option; then they decided it would make for a bad joke anyway, discarded the idea and forgot about it until YT unprivated some videos. Personally i've never seen the video, only read about it accidentally; decided to never watch it because i respect dnp's wishes about it. I do think however one of the reasons why i'm inclined to believe it was indeed a joke is that from what i know Phil mentions things that are easily traceable back to their public online interactions on twitter and such; if i were making a legit romantic video for my bf i'd talk about much more personal/private shared moments the internet would have no idea about. Coincidentally, if i wanted to stage a convincing joke, i'd make detailed stuff up too to make it seem more "real", presenting "new" information that can't be confirmed, leaving a lingering impression of doubt. The voldy can't be explained, after all. Only dnp know what that was all about, and speculation can only go so far, specially with confirmation bias.

"losing sleep" is here a figure of speech, but you probably already knew that

Also, this is a question I have for all the anti/agnostics: why is the fact they say they are not a couple a strong argument? I'm genuinely curious to know why you believe it's unlikely that they'd lie to us. I see this over and over in blogs like phanantiproof, and it makes no sense to me. They lied about having met through a mutual friend, for example. I don't see why some people think they wouldn't lie to us about their relationship status, when we are just their audience. It's such a weak argument to me. To my mind there are much stronger ones, for example the difficulty in keeping the relationship a secret for so long.

I think, at least in my case and some of my friends, it's got to do with entitlement. So many shippers are so young and think supporting your fave means an all access pass to their lives in all aspects including outside of whatever platform they work in. When it comes to dnp i simply don't feel that way. They don't owe me the truth and details of their personal, off-camera life. They actually don't owe me anything, it's the other way around. So, if they say phan ain't real, i'll just take it. Why wouldn't i? Is something that concerns them, so who better than them to listen to about it? I'd take dnp's words over the phandom's any day. Their videos helped me get through some shitty moments, the least i could do is take them seriously on this instead of going straight to "oh they lying".

The shipping aspect of dnp never moved me, that is not what got me into them, i'm not interested in solving this big old mystery. They can lie all they want, but in light of what phan is all about -from the phandom's perspective- if they lie about their relationship status a) i understand why they would, b) ain't even mad about it. I actually find it sad they have to lie to protect their privacy, that speaks more of the phandom than of them IMO. I'm worried already if they're not secretely gay with each other how will the phandom treat their partners if they ever go public about dating/being in a relationship? If they lie, then it's for self-preservation and not a choice but something the hardcore phandom has forced them to do.
I don't see dnp and their friends and family denying phan as an argument at all, it's sort of an official statement by now and not somehing up for debate, for me it's not up for discussion simply because it's not my business to discuss, you see? I've been shipped irl with one of my friends before, it becomes hell to keep insisting nothing's going on between you too to people who have already decided they just won't listen because they prioritize their fantasy of you and your friend's imaginary relationship over your own words and feelings on the matter. It's like talking to a rude wall. Eventually all you can do is ignore it and not give a fuck, wich i think is what happened after Dan calmed down a bit. They can't win, so they stopped trying. Even if you consider it a "weak argument" won't you say it actually adds up with the others? As you mention, the difficulty of keeping a relationship hidden for so long when they're so easily recognisable in public, added up to friends, family and themselves saying they're not together and implying that they're single, it actually enforces the possibility that hey, they might not be lying about phan not being real after all.
Even if they're lying, they can drag friends, family and acquaintances in on the lie but what about the rest of the world? Taxi drivers, waiters, store clerks, their neighbours, bystanders on the street, everything really, am i seriously expected to believe in the last 7 years no one has ever seen these two at least holding hands once im public?? (bad photoshop edits don't count). Young people have no idea how the presure of keeping everything a secret can wear down and even destroy a relationship, specially for so long.
So tl;dr, if dnp say they're not together i have more reasons to believe them than to not.

In regards to the last two paragraphs I'd I'magine if they were a couple that their close friends and family do know and are happy not talking about it, do you often talk about your families relationships with strangers? For the last paragraph, I'd say that for people who aren't into public displays of affection that'd be quite easy, you don't have to hold hands when you walk down the street it's not compulsory when you're in a relationship. Also, whilst d&p are famous it's quite a niche fame, I watched YouTube for another youtuber (who d&p will never collab with) and only really discovered d&p a few months ago, before that they were just a thread name I occasionally saw on the list at GG and wouldn't have recognised them if I fell over them, so all the taxi drivers and shop clerks that may have saw cute bits of domesticity may have thought "aw cute" and thought nothing of it.i know they were on radio one but tbh I don't listen to it and have no idea what most of the djs look like. You're right that keeping a relationship secret would put pressure on it, however if you're out to those who count and are able to be free in private then it's probably a bit of breathing space. Just my opinion though, tbh I do think they're a couple purely because the first few videos I watched of them I just assumed they were because of their closeness.

[danisnotonphil]

So, holding hands/pda aren't compulsory for couples ( true, my bad there, I apologize, is just shippers make such a big deal of any physical contact and even mere eye contact...) but you assumed they were together because of their closeness in some videos? There's a bit of a contradiction there. Not to mention your first paragraphs there are confirmation bias, literally took something that can just as easily be interpreted as them not being a couple and switched it around to match phan.
Regarding their niche fame is true but you forget a store clerk might be in the phandom, a waiter could be a casual viewer or have seen them on the Brits, and a taxi driver could be a phannie dad who took his kid to a tabinof signing. Any of such people could mention on social media "saw those guys from the Internet with the hair, they seemed to be on a date" or anything really. Phan shippers are constantly on the lookout for any proof. No matter how much they tried, hiding a relationship for so long you are bound to accidentally let something slip through at least once in SEVEN YEARS. We have none of that so far. Fact.

Because of this confirmation bias we can discuss this for all eternity and never reach anything. I rather not bother speculating on this aspect of dnp, beyond what I've already said for myself.

[Lain]

I'm worried already if they're not secretely gay with each other how will the phandom treat their partners if they ever go public about dating/being in a relationship?

Do you believe they've been single for 7 years? Or that they've had other relationships that they've managed to keep hidden?

[backin09]

Regarding their niche fame is true but you forget a store clerk might be in the phandom, a waiter could be a casual viewer or have seen them on the Brits, and a taxi driver could be a phannie dad who took his kid to a tabinof signing. Any of such people could mention on social media "saw those guys from the Internet with the hair, they seemed to be on a date" or anything really. Phan shippers are constantly on the lookout for any proof. No matter how much they tried, hiding a relationship for so long you are bound to accidentally let something slip through at least once in SEVEN YEARS. We have none of that so far. Fact.

But if this is true, wouldn't they also see them going on dates with other people? Or do you think they've been single for 7 years?

[danisnotonphil]

Wow, the idea that one can like dnp and simultaneously not wonder about their relationship status 24/7 for years really is a wild one uh? Why do you keep asking me what I "believe" about their relationship status when I've already said is none of my business? Is not a matter of belief, this is not a religion. Let me be rude clear about it : IDGAF about whether they're together or have dated other people in the past 7 years. IT IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS. How is that so difficult to understand and accept? Objectively speaking though, just as pda is not compulsory for couples, being in a relationship itself isn't or rather should not be compulsory either. People can and have stayed single for even longer, sometimes it's a choice, sometimes they haven't found someone to commit to yet, sometimes other things are prioritized like oh idk, a career. Dan has said in the past that he was "married to his career " and not interested in dating. That was some years ago but he was and still is young and has been pretty busy. For all we know they've had fwb, one night stands, flings which if you think about it would be much easier to keep secret than a long term ongoing relationship of several years. May I add, due to phan shippers heavy confirmation bias, "proof" that they dated other people at some point in these years would have been conveniently swept under the rug, lbr.

I'm not interested in questioning such a private aspect of their lives nor in going out of my way to look for evidence of anything happening in it or not. I was in a relationship for 9 years, but before that I was single for just as many. Being in a relationship is not mandatory in order to have a good life and enjoy it, some people have no hurry to settle down.

My concern re: them getting other s/o btw is not about their relationship status per se but about the phandom's nasty side that would stalk, harass and bully them for having gotten in the way of phan. How did that flew over the radar there? Smh

I don't ship phan, never did, not interested in starting any time soon, will only believe it if the boys say is real themselves. Fan speculation is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned, because of confirmation bias, because it's some people's fantasy, because the fetishization of gay relationships is sadly a reality in the phandom too. I don't ship real people, period. If others want to that's their business, but I won't keep repeating myself on this anymore, tbh idk how more clear i can write my opinion on this. What I may think or "believe" about dnp's love life or lack thereof is irrelevant.

[pearshaped34]

Danisnotonphil did you read the thread title? People in this thread are going to ask about shipping. If discussing that is not your game there are plenty of other threads here and you can make your own about topics that suit you. And of course you are welcome to post in this one about the reasons don't care about their relationship status but don't be rude to people for staying on topic.

[annetamiau]

Wow, the idea that one can like dnp and simultaneously not wonder about their relationship status 24/7 for years really is a wild one uh? Why do you keep asking me what I "believe" about their relationship status when I've already said is none of my business? Is not a matter of belief, this is not a religion. Let me be rude clear about it : IDGAF about whether they're together or have dated other people in the past 7 years. IT IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS. How is that so difficult to understand and accept? Objectively speaking though, just as pda is not compulsory for couples, being in a relationship itself isn't or rather should not be compulsory either. People can and have stayed single for even longer, sometimes it's a choice, sometimes they haven't found someone to commit to yet, sometimes other things are prioritized like oh idk, a career. Dan has said in the past that he was "married to his career " and not interested in dating. That was some years ago but he was and still is young and has been pretty busy. For all we know they've had fwb, one night stands, flings which if you think about it would be much easier to keep secret than a long term ongoing relationship of several years. May I add, due to phan shippers heavy confirmation bias, "proof" that they dated other people at some point in these years would have been conveniently swept under the rug, lbr.

I don't think so, tbh. As much as there are shippers, there are 'anti'-shippers with the same 'heavy confirmation bias' you talk about, and I'm sure if something pointed towards them being in a relationship with other people or having one night stands there would be at least rumors. It's true that the way they look at each other and stuff like that is completely irrelevant to their relationship status (and I don't think anyone here believes they are a couple because of that, by the way) but so is people saying they do exactly the same things dan and phil do with their best friends.

[Lain]

Let me be rude clear about it : IDGAF about whether they're together or have dated other people in the past 7 years. IT IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS.

[danisnotonphil]

Danisnotonphil did you read the thread title? People in this thread are going to ask about shipping. If discussing that is not your game there are plenty of other threads here and you can make your own about topics that suit you. And of course you are welcome to post in this one about the reasons don't care about their relationship status but don't be rude to people for staying on topic.

Yeah, it's "if you DON'T ship phan
..why not?". It's about why not shipping it. Why /not/. Is not called "tell us why you don't ship phan so we can insist on all the reaaons why you should"..had that been the tile I wouldn't have bothered. I already exposed my stand on why I don't ship phan and all I'm getting is "ok but what about..? " and questions on what i believe about their relationship status when I've already stated idk and idc! And honestly neither should you. It's just getting dense and pointless.

@annetamiau anti's bias exist but we're more about respecting their privacy, so I kid you not when we come across some info we go "if only phannies knew lol" and keep it in the gcs also our bias is more in the sense that we're more inclined towards thinking phan aint real, we don't invest it in looking out for proof of rumours, if things find us we might consider them but that's about it. The anti arguments exist actually as counterarguments to the sometimes ridiculous shippers ones. If there's an anti agenda is to get ppl to understand and respect their privacy, not to convince anyone that we're right, chill shippers are ok, demons are the problematic ones. AFAIK antis didn't dedicate a thread to discuss tour bus sex, which I've seen here, discussed like it was fact and yall just needed a photo to confirm it. (the "we were joking" argument only gets so far btw)

@Lain watch out we got a comedian here too..except, yknow, if you think staying away from other ppls business qualifies someone as a special snowflake you're not really funny, is actually kinda worrying :/

Clearly I've seriously misread this thread title and have been doing this all wrong so this is my last post on this topic. See ya on the main

[pearshaped34]

I don't think so, tbh. As much as there are shippers, there are 'anti'-shippers with the same 'heavy confirmation bias' you talk about, and I'm sure if something pointed towards them being in a relationship with other people or having one night stands there would be at least rumors. It's true that the way they look at each other and stuff like that is completely irrelevant to their relationship status (and I don't think anyone here believes they are a couple because of that, by the way) but so is people saying they do exactly the same things dan and phil do with their best friends.

Yeah I agree with this it's really not a case of there being the shippers and the indifferent there are really hardcore anti-phans too.
I'm personally on the fence about Phan and I have looked at both sides of the argument and there are a number of anti-Phan blogs out there who analyze and discuss the anti stuff to the exact same level as the shippers do with the romantic stuff. And despite what some of them may like to think they are no more respectful of D&Ps privacy then the Phans. If you go on tumblr and look for anti-phan stuff you'll find that they are discussing Voldy and all the stuff deleted off the internet just like the shippers do only they are coming from the angle that is was all a joke.
So yeah if there was existing evidence out there of Dan and Phil having romantic partners they would be shouting it from the rooftops not allowing it to be swept under the rug. Of course this doesn't mean they don't just if they have they have managed to successfully hide it from the fans.

Yeah, it's "if you DON'T ship phan
..why not?". It's about why not shipping it. Why /not/. Is not called "tell us why you don't ship phan so we can insist on all the reaaons why you should"..had that been the tile I wouldn't have bothered. I already exposed my stand on why I don't ship phan and all I'm getting is "ok but what about..? " and questions on what i believe about their relationship status when I've already stated idk and idc! And honestly neither should you. It's just getting dense and pointless.

This is a discussion board. The way things work here is people start threads with titled topics and then the other posters who are interested in that topic can come in and discuss it. The people discussing it can and will have varying opinions on the subject.
You came in and gave your opinions on this topic and then people tried to engage you in discussion on said topic (this is going to happen if you post on here). If that was all you had to say you didn't have to reply to the people trying to chat with you or you could have just told them that was all you wanted to say on the subject. You didn't have to berate them for trying to discuss the topic at hand as though they were doing something wrong.
And this is all I have to say on this matter.

[fancybum]

@annetamiau anti's bias exist but we're more about respecting their privacy, so I kid you not when we come across some info we go "if only phannies knew lol" and keep it in the gcs also our bias is more in the sense that we're more inclined towards thinking phan aint real, we don't invest it in looking out for proof of rumours, if things find us we might consider them but that's about it. The anti arguments exist actually as counterarguments to the sometimes ridiculous shippers ones. If there's an anti agenda is to get ppl to understand and respect their privacy, not to convince anyone that we're right, chill shippers are ok, demons are the problematic ones.

So there's a bunch of people in special gc's who have information that could blow this whole thing wide open, but choose not to because 'lol phannies'? You could shut down those annoying 'demons' and crazy shippers with this fabled info only antis who respect their privacy have managed to 'come across' in their privacy-respecting-travels? Wow.

Kind of contradictory behaviour to be so pressed about the dedication of those problematic demons when you're off in a corner laughing about what they don't know. Tell them! "If only phannies knew"... then what? They'd stop being phannies? Then tell them and let them know, they can go off and ship some emo band instead or else just enjoy some more spare time. Oh, you respect D&P's privacy too much to leak this ship-shattering info though. Congrats on your commendable moral character when it comes to respecting D&P. Shame about the self-righteousness towards people who disagree with your take on things. Can't blame them really, when they don't have the full picture like you do.

[confusedpanda]

@annetamiau anti's bias exist but we're more about respecting their privacy, so I kid you not when we come across some info we go "if only phannies knew lol" and keep it in the gcs also our bias is more in the sense that we're more inclined towards thinking phan aint real, we don't invest it in looking out for proof of rumours, if things find us we might consider them but that's about it. The anti arguments exist actually as counterarguments to the sometimes ridiculous shippers ones. If there's an anti agenda is to get ppl to understand and respect their privacy, not to convince anyone that we're right, chill shippers are ok, demons are the problematic ones. AFAIK antis didn't dedicate a thread to discuss tour bus sex, which I've seen here, discussed like it was fact and yall just needed a photo to confirm it. (the "we were joking" argument only gets so far btw)

What's bolded is actually really hypocritical to "respecting their privacy", specially if you're seeking it out or asking for it. And if you guys know something, why not just say it? Don't just laugh at them, even if they won't believe you, say it. I'd actually like to see more things that could be taken as anti proof. Where there's a pro, there going to be a con. It's good to see both sides. But the problem is, you guys don't fact check the rumors. Like you said, You'll just take people's anonymous word and say "oh maybe". With the amount of people who lie, no one can trust anything anon people say anymore. Evidence to back up a claim is key to even consider it.

[Sakura Selfie]

So, holding hands/pda aren't compulsory for couples ( true, my bad there, I apologize, is just shippers make such a big deal of any physical contact and even mere eye contact...) but you assumed they were together because of their closeness in some videos? There's a bit of a contradiction there. Not to mention your first paragraphs there are confirmation bias, literally took something that can just as easily be interpreted as them not being a couple and switched it around to match phan.
Regarding their niche fame is true but you forget a store clerk might be in the phandom, a waiter could be a casual viewer or have seen them on the Brits, and a taxi driver could be a phannie dad who took his kid to a tabinof signing. Any of such people could mention on social media "saw those guys from the Internet with the hair, they seemed to be on a date" or anything really. Phan shippers are constantly on the lookout for any proof. No matter how much they tried, hiding a relationship for so long you are bound to accidentally let something slip through at least once in SEVEN YEARS. We have none of that so far. Fact.

Because of this confirmation bias we can discuss this for all eternity and never reach anything. I rather not bother speculating on this aspect of dnp, beyond what I've already said for myself.

I meant their emotional closeness not physical closeness, they have a clear chemistry (whether it's platonic or not) and I automatically defaulted to assuming they're a couple. As you acknowledge, confirmation bias exists and most people will make assumptions based on their lives and experiences and I associated their closeness and bond with that of a couple in a relationship. Then I discovered bits and bobs handily explained to me by the person who pointed me in the direction of here from the GG threads, and I now think they are (or at least have been at one point) based on the info I've seen. In regards to the waiters/taxi drivers etc can you really see them jumping on social media to gossip about people they may not know the names of? And even if they went home and told their daughters and they then went on social media would you believe it without photographs?

[missemma]

Let me be rude clear about it : IDGAF about whether they're together or have dated other people in the past 7 years. IT IS NONE OF MY BUSINESS.

Count me in as a special snowflake then because im with danisnotonphil, I honestly don't care whether they're together or not. I have no opinion on their relationship as its none of my business and it's not the reason why I enjoy their content. Yes I agree that they would be very cute together but until they specifically tell us that they're in a relationship together then I have no opinion on it. I'm not an antiphan I'm a idgafphan

[human]

Count me in as a special snowflake then because im with danisnotonphil, I honestly don't care whether they're together or not. I have no opinion on their relationship as its none of my business and it's not the reason why I enjoy their content. Yes I agree that they would be very cute together but until they specifically tell us that they're in a relationship together then I have no opinion on it. I'm not an antiphan I'm a idgafphan

First time I've ever missed having the like button; agree that not shipping isn't necessarily about being anti but rather being idgaf... idgafphan lol brilliant.

[anathema]

This thread is really entertaining honestly Personally, my reason for not shipping them is simple: I think shipping real people is kinda weird.

But, even though I don't ship them, I honestly think the most likely thing is that they're together. There's obviously a chance one of them/both of them are single, (and an even smaller chance one of them has a S/O,) but I think that it would make so much sense if they were dating each other. I feel like I'm kind of in a weird no-man's land, where I don't ship them (but not because of D&P in particular, I don't ship any real people anymore), but I also think it's really likely they're lovers in the nighttime. I suppose you could say I'm an "anti", but I'm just anti-shipping, not anti-Dan and Phil are dating I wish I could look at Dan saying "Hey, we're not dating!" and I could say "I'm going to take his word for it and think they're just friends." But, after I spent a year digging up "proof" they were together and reading phan theories, I'm going to view them as a couple until one of them marries someone else.

[NarrysCanary]

Count me in as a special snowflake then because im with danisnotonphil, I honestly don't care whether they're together or not. I have no opinion on their relationship as its none of my business and it's not the reason why I enjoy their content. Yes I agree that they would be very cute together but until they specifically tell us that they're in a relationship together then I have no opinion on it. I'm not an antiphan I'm a idgafphan

First time I've ever missed having the like button; agree that not shipping isn't necessarily about being anti but rather being idgaf... idgafphan lol brilliant.

I'm an idgafphan too, let's celebrate

[Amiaw]

I'm not a true shipper but like most people I do love their chemistry together. When I first started watching their videos I thought they were just best friends and then when I saw the pinof's I started questioning that...which led me down the rabbit hole of all of the "phan" evidence.

At this point I've flip flopped so many times on what they are but (even though I think they are involved more than platonically) I actually would prefer it if they weren't. I love watching the 2 of them together and if they are/have always been just friends then even if other partners come into the picture their bromance can live on- even if they move out and stop being so "Dan and Phil" about everything. Who knows though- they may be the type to stay friends after a breakup but if they are/do end up in a relationship with someone else I'd really hate to be the partner that has to live with all shippers/third wheeling, etc.

[spaceguitar]

I don't really ship phan that much ( though sometimes I'm like wow they are adorable). I am curious about whether they are together though. Caring about relationship status and shipping are not unrelated- I think shipping motivates caring about relationship status to an extent. Though obvs some antiphans care about their relationship statuses.
I don't mind the idea of them not being together. What I can't get over though is their relationship in the early days if they were never together. Things like all of the times that they shared clothes (and underwear). It just seems kinda bizarre to me.

[melon lord]

I've been thinking about this for a while and I just like to theorise anyway because I have no life.

TL;DR I think Dan had a huge crush on Phil that wasn't reciprocated.

1) To explain, I think Dan had a huge fanboy/senpai moment with Phil and got really attached to him. He mentioned in one of his tumblrs that he was not the best example of a human being and was prone to lying a lot back then. I mean, he was phil trash no1. Same tastes, similar style, I think he had an infatuation with him and tried as hard as he could to get his attention. I think he really, really tried to be everything Phil would want. I think his infatuation sprung up curiosity over his sexuality and whether he is for real or not is another story, I feel that maybe it was just a phase he went through due to Phil. Not that he "wasn't" bisexual at the time and lied, just... got carried away.

2) In ISG 3 there was a question @2:35 about unrequited love from a friend.



He says "A tough situation that actually happens to quite a lot of people. The fact is if you don't feel the same way about her, that is just something that she will have to get over. It is awkward, and it will probably give her emotional heart cramps for a very long time, but if your friendship is special, there is no reason for it to end"

The last bit struck me as interesting. Now sure, it's very reasonable advice any way you look at it, from any person. But people usually go down the "cool it off and let them heal on their own" route, the whole "friendship is special and we don't want it to go away" is less chosen because let's be real, heartbreak sucks balls. The fact that he's that type of person says a lot about where he prioritises the people he cares about. "if the friendship is special", eh Dan?

3) His meltdown on tumblr. I think his huge rant over phan which is basically an outright denial of it, maybe hit a few nerves. I mean yeah it's annoying as fuck to be in Dan's position but his rant sounded like a lot of suppressed emotions let out at once. Like "it's p-l-a-t-o-n-i-c" means "it's not anything because I wanted it to be but Phil didn't and I have to deal with the what ifs all the time due to fans". I think by now he'll have moved on and probably cooled down a bit, maybe even settled more on how he feels about sexuality or other people. But I can't say why that time was so intense for him.

4) Dan is a precious cupcake (pistachio cupcake amirite ) and it seems like Phil, despite his childish persona, seems a lot more independent and roamy than Dan. Like genuinely, almost everyone he calls a friend is through Phil. There is the "jealous dan returns" video and he just seems miffed honestly, while Phil is saying about all the new roomates they could have. Like Phil just seems more like the guy who could survive just by being more outgoing and sociable and Dan is the shy wallflower that clings to his friend (no shaming I'm the same ngl). Phil is so often going to his family for visits, while Dan is left alone. How often is Phil alone while Dan is out? I know he tries to front that he's actually got a life but I think to an extent his internet branding is on point.

I had more points but I'm brainfarting right now so will add when remembered

[spider]

melon lord your post has the best explanation I have seen from a non shipper. Have not seen anyone mention the ISG answer before.

How do you explain Voldy? Do you think it was a prank like Deppy said? Wouldn't it be cruel to Dan because of his feelings for Phil? It was only a couple months after they met so wouldn't Dan not have enough time to move on from his feelings? Especially if he was still hurt about it in 2012.