If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Our two favourite full time internet nerds who never go outside!
Post Reply
phannielogic
banned
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:53 am

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by phannielogic » Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:58 am

I don't see them being together. every bit of 'evidence' can either be easily debunked or left for ONLY speculation. the latter obviously gets taken in as proof that theyre dating/married/fucking. I'd rather believe what dan and phil say, and they (well dan at least) have said that they are not together and they never have been. and i'm aware he said that a long ass time ago so if things are different now, i'd happily support them, but i'll only take it from them.

they also remind me of me and my best friend and it just baffles me how some people in the phandom cant find friendship to be just as fulfilling and satisfying as a romantic relationship.

and finally, dan and phil are excellent at subtly playing up Phan™ for the views/money/promo :D
-your favorite kitten ;p



dansaidphanisntreal
banned
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:20 am

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by dansaidphanisntreal » Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:40 am

all phan proof tends to be shit like "heart eyes", whereas all antiphan proof is pretty much nondebunkable (unless you've got phannie goggles on)

melon lord
morning quiff
Posts: 473
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:47 pm
Pronouns: she/her
Location: post-baking universe

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by melon lord » Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:40 pm

I know they've been banned but whatever it's a free forum and I'll just talk alone if I have to. :lol:

So I've rediscovered the archive and perused some really old bants from the days and it's like... I made that theory that Dan had unrequited feelings and somewhere in me I still feel that something hurt Dan more than it hurt Phil but during the start it seemed they were both really in puppy love/maybe even real love. An extremely intense honeymoon phase.

Keep in mind I am but a damaged trashcan that keeps it green and recycles my contents Their relationship doesn't affect me and this is just speculation and I won't claim to have it right 100%

There's a lot of stuff back then from both of them. Overexcited at finding someone they got so close to? New territory for both of them and it's scary and exciting at the same time? Destiny? Nobody knows But I think at first there was something, whatever that was.

What happened to that something? I don't honestly know, but I'm not sure if it's still there now. Obviously it's been years and they may be so used to each other's presence that they don't have to act like they did in 2009, which is normal and okay. Being single? Eh... It doesn't mean much, although one does naturally wonder, especially them being such cuties.

It's just... like even if you read all the archive back to back despite both of them having a huge connection and strong expressions on the internet, Dan still seemed overwhelmingly more fanboi/heart eyes howell than Phil did to Dan. Phil has always seemed more out there and open and even though he's still with Dan I lowkey feel in my gut that Phil would be the one to break it off, per se. To find another place, to branch out, to "move on".

Image

googlebisexuality
banned
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:46 pm
Pronouns: she/her

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by googlebisexuality » Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:55 pm

I agreed with phannielogic, i dont wanna hear possibilities from their fans, who essentially are strangers to the boys, i'd rather hear it from the guys themselves ygm?? i take what they do now on their channels with a grain of salt, whenever they do play up phan it feels like its for views or that there's a catch. not that theres anything wrong with what they do for their jobs/how they make their money.
~someone told me 'stay away from things that arent yours'~

anathema
moon room
Posts: 448
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:10 pm
Pronouns: she/her
Location: hell

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by anathema » Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:58 pm

melon lord wrote:
I know they've been banned but whatever it's a free forum and I'll just talk alone if I have to. :lol:

So I've rediscovered the archive and perused some really old bants from the days and it's like... I made that theory that Dan had unrequited feelings and somewhere in me I still feel that something hurt Dan more than it hurt Phil but during the start it seemed they were both really in puppy love/maybe even real love. An extremely intense honeymoon phase.

Keep in mind I am but a damaged trashcan that keeps it green and recycles my contents Their relationship doesn't affect me and this is just speculation and I won't claim to have it right 100%

There's a lot of stuff back then from both of them. Overexcited at finding someone they got so close to? New territory for both of them and it's scary and exciting at the same time? Destiny? Nobody knows But I think at first there was something, whatever that was.

What happened to that something? I don't honestly know, but I'm not sure if it's still there now. Obviously it's been years and they may be so used to each other's presence that they don't have to act like they did in 2009, which is normal and okay. Being single? Eh... It doesn't mean much, although one does naturally wonder, especially them being such cuties.
It's just... like even if you read all the archive back to back despite both of them having a huge connection and strong expressions on the internet, Dan still seemed overwhelmingly more fanboi/heart eyes howell than Phil did to Dan. Phil has always seemed more out there and open and even though he's still with Dan I lowkey feel in my gut that Phil would be the one to break it off, per se. To find another place, to branch out, to "move on".
I agree with this. But if you think about it, they did meet because Dan was a fan of Phil, so I don't necessarily know if that means anything. But it is interesting to think about their dynamic (that's not the right word to use but I can't think of the right one, sorry) when they first met, and how that would have affected their relationship. Like, because Dan was a fan, do you think that affected how Phil went about Dan (seemingly) wanting a relationship? Sorry if this makes no sense.
"The saltiness reminds me of my tears."

melon lord
morning quiff
Posts: 473
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:47 pm
Pronouns: she/her
Location: post-baking universe

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by melon lord » Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:23 pm

anathema wrote: I agree with this. But if you think about it, they did meet because Dan was a fan of Phil, so I don't necessarily know if that means anything. But it is interesting to think about their dynamic (that's not the right word to use but I can't think of the right one, sorry) when they first met, and how that would have affected their relationship. Like, because Dan was a fan, do you think that affected how Phil went about Dan (seemingly) wanting a relationship? Sorry if this makes no sense.
I'm not sure about that (not that I'm doubting you, just genuinely unsure), I just see that there was SO MUCH admiration of Phil from Dan's side, like the senpai levels were through the roof. From its very nature that's so imbalanced because that's a pedestal to put someone on that they won't always earn.

Which is ironic since now it's Dan that's "the cynical, smart one" and Phil is the "clumsy, childish pupper". I think in DD he did mention that he was kind of jealous of other youtubers and Phil as well, but not in a bad way. I wonder if he had to deal with that and how it affected him back then. Like if his persona of grumpy guy who always tells Phil off is partly because of that?

Image

wowza
banned
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by wowza » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:07 am

Because Dan said it wasn't real, and I believe him.

wowza
banned
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:26 pm

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by wowza » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:32 am

By the way, I don't think these threads should be called "if you don't ship phan... why not?" and vice versa, there's a big difference between shipping it and if you think it's real or not. Most of the people here are saying why they don't think it's real. I'd be happy if it was real, I just think realistically (no offense to people who think it's real, I'm just a very skeptical person who needs more than "heart eyes" and brief physical contact as proof) and choose to believe what D&P say about it. Also, I think shipping real people is kind of creepy, so I'm very chill about it.

Isn't there a post from Dan's old blog saying he would appreciate it if we "defend his honor" from shippers/people spreading lies about phan "politely"? Brb, lemme find it.

Image

Because of this, I feel like we have a right to call people out for over shipping phan and spreading rumors about it/generally acting like it's real. People who ship it will get mad at us for doing that, but didn't Dan give us permission to do it whilst asking the people who are shipping it to stop spreading lies? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

User avatar
000dia000
lava lamp
Posts: 993
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:17 pm
Location: Ireland

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by 000dia000 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:47 am

wowza wrote:Because Dan said it wasn't real, and I believe him.
tbh Dan also stated he met Phil through a mutual friend. He owned up to lying about that. He stated that he "lied about himself on formspring", eg bisexuality. Recently he seemed not to state that he is but that he doesn't like labels, precisely. He could very much be telling the truth about phan not being real but I don't get how you can be so selective about what you want to believe. They're constantly lying. I don't believe anything for a second. Who knows if their real names are even Dan and Phil, I certainly don't trust them enough to believe them 100 percent.

Why do you think he is telling the truth in 2012 and not in 2009? Why don't you believe him now with his recent developments? I'm personally skeptical about phan but I take information with a grain of salt and context
wowza wrote:
By the way, I don't think these threads should be called "if you don't ship phan... why not?" and vice versa, there's a big difference between shipping it and if you think it's real or not. Most of the people here are saying why they don't think it's real. I'd be happy if it was real, I just think realistically (no offense to people who think it's real, I'm just a very skeptical person who needs more than "heart eyes" and brief physical contact as proof) and choose to believe what D&P say about it. Also, I think shipping real people is kind of creepy, so I'm very chill about it.

Isn't there a post from Dan's old blog saying he would appreciate it if we "defend his honor" from shippers/people spreading lies about phan "politely"? Brb, lemme find it.

Image

Because of this, I feel like we have a right to call people out for over shipping phan and spreading rumors about it/generally acting like it's real. People who ship it will get mad at us for doing that, but didn't Dan give us permission to do it whilst asking the people who are shipping it to stop spreading lies? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
it's 2016 please don't start Phan policing again
:cactus:

cecilia
smol bean
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:34 am

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by cecilia » Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:46 am

Yes Dan lied and lies about things as every human does regularly for a variety of reasons. But to me there is a difference between small lies and the Phan denial. Lying about Phan is not a small lie, it means lying about something that is a very big topic for the fans and a big part of the whole "fandom culture" which is why I think he would have been more reluctant with his Phan denials if he only did it to cover up the relationship. He did not just deny Phan once or twice, he denied it a lot of times - in live streams, on his customer service blog, on tumblr. He was absolutely clear about it and seemed genuinely pretty distressed and frustrated about people not wanting to accept what he said. I can't imagine him lying in such a strong, direct way only to cover up the relationship because it's clear that a lot of fans would feel pretty betrayed if ever came out that he was lying. Same goes for the emotional aspect: why would he have such a strong emotional reaction if Phan was actually real aka the fans were right, it seems unnatural to me. If the fans' behaviour (spreading lies by constantly trying to prove Phan) was not the actual reason for his anger and it was just a personal issue, I don't think he would have been so aggressive towards them.
He has never said that the things he said in 2012 are not true, whereas he said multiple times that he lied in formspring answers and was an attention seeker in 2009. He also explicitly said that him and Phil were just joking around in 2009 ("people always ask me why me and phil don't joke around like chris and pj or other people do when we’re shipped together and the answer is we used to until people started taking it too far"). So it makes more sense to me to doubt what he said/did in 2009 than what he said in 2012.

User avatar
oqua
nose pervert
nose pervert
Posts: 1073
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:05 pm
Pronouns: she/her
Location: California, USA

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by oqua » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:29 pm

Moderator Action :
The mods would like to make it clear that the banned users who made posts in this thread were not banned due to the opinions they expressed in this thread. They were banned for trolling elsewhere on the site and for the creation of multiple accounts. Being "anti-phan," providing "anti-phan" proof, or posting on this thread are by no means grounds for banning. We welcome all opinions on IDB, provided that discussion remains civil and respectful.
busy being happy~

melon lord
morning quiff
Posts: 473
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:47 pm
Pronouns: she/her
Location: post-baking universe

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by melon lord » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:49 pm

Okay maybe someone put more salt in my chips than usual and it's made me salty but like.. what is up with all of you?

All you posters who have one or two posts and come out of the woodwork to accuse or point at other forum members or this thread for "shipping or not shipping?" At the end of the day, who gives a shit?

are not our property. Nor do we know them personally (or do we ), but they are public figures and we're in our own space, our own forum, discussing two youtubers. With information that's been public like tweets or liveshows or videos. What we bant about or conspire about really has no effect on our lives and we don't take it seriously enough for it to do so. :thumb:

Dan has a history of lying. He's admitted that himself. That makes a lot of what he says = ambiguous. You can't say for sure when he lied and when he told the truth. For all you know he lied in 2009 for attention and was truthful in 2012. Or he was truthful in 2009 when he didn't have to hide and was making big tall stories in 2012 to cover his tracks. Can you really, REALLY 100% claim to know when the "truth" was spoken? All you people who come in with your pretentious know-it-all attitude to show us delusional tinfoil hat members how it really is?

Even if we're wrong, guess what? It doesn't matter. It's just fun and pointless chatter about two dudes. Last time I checked we didn't hack accounts or stalk anyone or do bad things. What we think or say or theorise has no importance to their career or how we enjoy their content.

By all means come in and chat with us, provide another perspective, have some cheeky ribena Just be respectful to us and be respectful of the fact that this is just a sort of hobby or past-time and doesn't reflect on our intelligence or beliefs.

That being said, here's another bit of thought process from yours truly:
Let's assume that in this reality Dan is straight (or bicurious at most but definitely actively straight) and he just had intense fanboi feels for Phil and nothing more. I wonder if his ambiguous behaviour and expressive sexuality... choices wasn't just a product of the internet era but also a way to validate his existence? Like when he started becoming more involved with Phil as a friend and Phil would #spon his channel, or even prior to that, he just wanted to be an edgy bi kid on the internet that the ladies liked. That people liked. It was cool, it was alternative, it was just dark enough but also not Requiem for a Dream level of edge :lol:

I wonder if he felt like being the "cool nerdy bi guy" was a persona he noticed was popular? He saw that it was liked by people (fans, girls, whatever) and it brought him views, compliments, people asking for him. Suddenly he went from soft-spoken articulate effeminate loser kid at school that played games to a hot alt rock bi nerd on the internet that was 3edge5me and also had a popular cool guy like Phil to back him up. People went bananas over his interactions with Phil and it was exciting. How far could you push this? How much can you cross the line and play with the idea of being bi and popular and in a 'ship with AmazingPhil (not *just* Phil Lester). Maybe he even flirts with the idea of a relationship but it's not for him or it's not for Phil.

Then he starts getting his own following that's not necessarily tied to Phil. People even seem to... prefer him? He always felt so envious of Phil and other Youtubers and now he's getting his own spot online. He notices that cynicism or #relatibility works. People like laughing at his stories and people find comfort in his crises. He becomes a grumpy relatable kid on the internet and wants to shake off the Phan because he doesn't want to be "that guy" anymore. He wants to be Dan, not the -an in Phan. He doesn't want his internet place to be defined by him and Phil anymore. He lashes out at everyone and even lies about stuff hoping that people forget the cringe.

Maybe his manager or the #brand era is him accepting that past of himself. Maybe he realised Phan is a surefire winner no matter what happens. Maybe he sees he can still be Dan alone and also play with Phan like he used to, because now he can?
Anyway soz for the long babble :geek:

Edit: thanks to the mods for taking care of this while I wrote my rant

Image

anathema
moon room
Posts: 448
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:10 pm
Pronouns: she/her
Location: hell

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by anathema » Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:23 pm

melon lord wrote: Dan has a history of lying. He's admitted that himself. That makes a lot of what he says = ambiguous. You can't say for sure when he lied and when he told the truth. For all you know he lied in 2009 for attention and was truthful in 2012. Or he was truthful in 2009 when he didn't have to hide and was making big tall stories in 2012 to cover his tracks. Can you really, REALLY 100% claim to know when the "truth" was spoken? All you people who come in with your pretentious know-it-all attitude to show us delusional tinfoil hat members how it really is?
YES! The thing is, no matter if you believe phan is real or not, you believe Dan (and maybe Phil, by extension,) was lying at some point. You either believe he was lying in 2009 or 2012. So I hate when people say "well obviously 2009 is when he lied" because no one has any way of knowing 100%, all we have is judgement and speculation.
melon lord wrote:
Let's assume that in this reality Dan is straight (or bicurious at most but definitely actively straight) and he just had intense fanboi feels for Phil and nothing more. I wonder if his ambiguous behaviour and expressive sexuality... choices wasn't just a product of the internet era but also a way to validate his existence? Like when he started becoming more involved with Phil as a friend and Phil would #spon his channel, or even prior to that, he just wanted to be an edgy bi kid on the internet that the ladies liked. That people liked. It was cool, it was alternative, it was just dark enough but also not Requiem for a Dream level of edge :lol:

I wonder if he felt like being the "cool nerdy bi guy" was a persona he noticed was popular? He saw that it was liked by people (fans, girls, whatever) and it brought him views, compliments, people asking for him. Suddenly he went from soft-spoken articulate effeminate loser kid at school that played games to a hot alt rock bi nerd on the internet that was 3edge5me and also had a popular cool guy like Phil to back him up. People went bananas over his interactions with Phil and it was exciting. How far could you push this? How much can you cross the line and play with the idea of being bi and popular and in a 'ship with AmazingPhil (not *just* Phil Lester). Maybe he even flirts with the idea of a relationship but it's not for him or it's not for Phil.

Then he starts getting his own following that's not necessarily tied to Phil. People even seem to... prefer him? He always felt so envious of Phil and other Youtubers and now he's getting his own spot online. He notices that cynicism or #relatibility works. People like laughing at his stories and people find comfort in his crises. He becomes a grumpy relatable kid on the internet and wants to shake off the Phan because he doesn't want to be "that guy" anymore. He wants to be Dan, not the -an in Phan. He doesn't want his internet place to be defined by him and Phil anymore. He lashes out at everyone and even lies about stuff hoping that people forget the cringe.

Maybe his manager or the #brand era is him accepting that past of himself. Maybe he realised Phan is a surefire winner no matter what happens. Maybe he sees he can still be Dan alone and also play with Phan like he used to, because now he can?
I find this theory really interesting, and I've actually seen people who really do believe it, but they explain it in such a condescending and this-is-the-truth-and-everything-else-is-dumb way I have a hard time actually appreciating it as a theory :? I've also seen people explain Dan claiming he's bi as him being part of the "scene phase". But I don't really believe that, because to me if he's straight parts of 2012 don't make any sense. Like, instead of saying "I'm not gay" over and over and ambiguously implying he's straight, why not just come right out and say "I'm not bisexual, that's what I lied about on formspring"?
"The saltiness reminds me of my tears."

melon lord
morning quiff
Posts: 473
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 6:47 pm
Pronouns: she/her
Location: post-baking universe

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by melon lord » Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:56 pm

I've seen the "not gay" compilation and yeah you're right, denial of being gay =/= denial of bisexuality. He does imply he's straight (when he commented about anne hathaway cementing his sexuality) but if I assume he's telling the truth (there we go again, we're already lost :lol: ) then lying about bisexuality + denying homosexuality = straight? He can deny that he's gay pretty readily, since it's a sincere answer. His bisexuality though, that's a more complicated question. Maybe sometimes he doesn't know either.

I can see why claiming to be bi/"baiting" can be seen as more different or unique, a lot of youth have had cringy parts of their past on the internet. As I stand now in my late 20's/almost 30's, it sounds comical and embarrassing, but I can remember how much these things mattered to me back when I was young and I wanted to impress people.

I remember at some point in the unmentionable place someone mentioned how he'd liked a photo of an attractive guy (don't remember if it was a celeb or not sorry) on tumblr, and liking photos is more personal than reblogging but still not entirely secret. This was around 2012-2013 when he was still lying about stuff. So do I really, personally believe he's straight? not particularly. But he doesn't so far seem interested in making it part of his #brand any time soon. Making vague funny comments in videos doesn't really count cause you can't tell when he's being #relatable, talking off a script or genuine. If he really wanted to keep it to himself he just wouldn't mention it. But he's not outright about it either, so you can't tell when hes being himself or he's trying to be funny because he knows his predominantly female viewership just inhale the "full homo" moments.

Image

YourMother
smol bean
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:41 am

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by YourMother » Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:28 am

I don't ship fan because:
- I don't like shipping real people. Not judging. It's just something I'm not into.
- The boys clearly don't ship it. That being said, they obviously don't MIND it, or they'd ask people to stop.
- They're best friends, and I think that's more important.
- As someone who is close enough with their best friend that people accuse us of being married, the ship simply reminds me of times when people used to shout "dykes!" at us throughout secondary school.

hmm
drama llama
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:36 am
Pronouns: she/her

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by hmm » Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:10 am

im extremely undecided, right now am thinking:
-Phil is gay and wasnt being honest when using female pronouns to refer to relationship stuff (in younows ect)
-Dan is bi, but primarily dates girls (if phan is real, phil is probably the only guy he's dated)
melon lord wrote: It's just... like even if you read all the archive back to back despite both of them having a huge connection and strong expressions on the internet, Dan still seemed overwhelmingly more fanboi/heart eyes howell than Phil did to Dan. Phil has always seemed more out there and open and even though he's still with Dan I lowkey feel in my gut that Phil would be the one to break it off, per se. To find another place, to branch out, to "move on".
i agree dan seems way more enthusiastic- I think 2009-11 dan and phil were genuine, not because they were in a relationship, but it was dans way of platonically exploring his attraction to guys (I have friends of both genders who initially joked around with the only other bi/gay person they knew in a very sexual way- just as a way of both figuring out what it meant to be gay and also as a way of testing others reactions) and phil was happy to go along- I also think their friendship was very new and exciting, hence all the physicality)
-2012 dan saw the shipping and got freaked out
-2013-2016 they shipbait/deliberately act like their in a relationship as part of their branding- if you look at their gaming videos, i think like 30-60% of their relationshipy/queer interactions are genuine, but then it seems like other interactions are deliberately put on (suggestive comments then reacting to them with a 'jim' from the office style glance at the camera)

anathema
moon room
Posts: 448
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:10 pm
Pronouns: she/her
Location: hell

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by anathema » Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:02 am

hmm wrote: -Phil is gay and wasnt being honest when using female pronouns to refer to relationship stuff (in younows ect)
What makes you think this? (And what do you think would have led him to lie in 2009/10/whenever-it-was about being bi?)
hmm wrote:-Dan is bi, but primarily dates girls (if phan is real, phil is probably the only guy he's dated)
I think this is probably true, too.
"The saltiness reminds me of my tears."

hmm
drama llama
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:36 am
Pronouns: she/her

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by hmm » Mon Oct 17, 2016 5:32 am

anathema wrote:
hmm wrote: -Phil is gay and wasnt being honest when using female pronouns to refer to relationship stuff (in younows ect)
What makes you think this? (And what do you think would have led him to lie in 2009/10/whenever-it-was about being bi?)
hmm wrote:-Dan is bi, but primarily dates girls (if phan is real, phil is probably the only guy he's dated)
I think this is probably true, too.
yeah good point about phil- old formsprings/plenty of younow comments do refer to females, he could be bi not gay
only referring to your own gender on youtube is almost tantamount to coming out, so perhaps talking about women = phil not thinking it was necessary for him to come out
it seems that phil doesn't like labelling himself/wants to be free to make sexual comments without people thinking it is actually how he feels about something (i.e. he makes sexual jokes about both genders, its just part of his persona), not to cover up his sexuality but just because he feels it isn't relevant

User avatar
papierklemmen
flower crown
Posts: 730
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:04 am

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by papierklemmen » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:40 am

i'm going to be honest, their ambiguity is what makes my interest in them alive - i'm not one of the "i don't care" people. :lol: i am a big sucker for conspiracy theories and unresolved mysteries and this one topped any mystery of the 20-21 centuries in my book, lol. but as with other unresolved mysteries i think the answer is always the most mundane one, no matter how convincing the extreme explanations are.

i looked through a lot of stuff that could convince me that they are together, because i'd be extremely happy to stan for a "possibly-out-soon" couple, especially if they are bi and are in a long-term relationship (goals tbh!!). but unfortunately, nothing does. :cry:

i found that their timeline most of the time gets reduced to "2009-2011 happy times; 2012-mid2013 no homo; mid 2013-present happy times". but... when looking objectively, it's not really like that? they really started no homo-ing in 2010 and to this day it's still ongoing.

a wall of text
2009 - i think it's the only year that could count as "proof" as they had a homoerotic tweetfest, but even then they had shipbaity stuff like that sex tape bit in the christmas video or dan asnwering if he would kiss phil with "for xx £ i would rape him on video".

2010 - the homoerotism was over, the way they interacted became friendly and bro-ish, except for the february 14 stuff which, if we assume that the vday video is a prank (which i think it is, no matter how much i wanted to believe it wasn't i just couldn't buy phil's acting), was just a part of a cruel joke. nothing they did would point to them being a couple and then they had vids like truth or dare 2 with that baity "phil is touching dan's leg" thumbnail, dan being jokingly horrified that bieber was not a girl when he found "her" attractive, dan being jokingly disgusted by phil touching his leg; and then amazingdan 2 where phil says that he wouldn't want to "interrobang" with dan - all of that long before the voldy leak.

2011 - just bros being bros, dan said he was single in one of the videos (or was it 2010?), bait-y thumbnail of "would you rather", and then voldy leaked for the first time...

2012-2013 - no need to even to remind of this clusterfuck of a period in their lives. everyone and their mum denied "phan", even people who had no business doing that (like teoh/mrtinoforever, or that bryarly girl), bryony said she feels bad for them because they can't do anything without it being misinterpreted, dan's brother said dan has a gf, dan was aggressive af "blowing holes in the ship, everybody cries" with unfairly forgotten passive-aggressive and heteronormative phil in the background who never gets dragged for his actions while dan takes all the blame (he denied being gay too, talked about da ladiez all the time, mocked shippers during ls). as much as i want to dismiss this year as "the no homo" period, dan did say he didn't have a problem with shipping - it's people spreading rumors that they are really dating as if it's a fact based on "contextless tweets" and "connected dots" he had a problem with.

mid 2013-present - they stopped aggressively denying stuff (read: gave up) and became comfortable with acknowledging that they're being shipped, but they adopted a very hammy way of doing that, they emphasize being FRIENDS now more than ever, dan deleted "boyfriend does my makeup" comments on the blindfolded makeup challenge video, he mentioned that he's shipped with his friend in his roast video (which might not mean anything but considering he was honest about other stuff like his veganism or deleted embarrassing stuff from the past...), everything tatinof related is one giant WE.ARE.FRIENDS announcement and phil never slipped up in his heteronormativity.

while dan has been really open with his male celebrity attractions and shushed his female ones lately and phil mostly doesn't bother with either, i can't help but think of a possibility that it could just be a sign of them both having female s/o's, although i would still vote for dan being non-straight
tldr; while all the lies they try to pull don't add up and there's definitely a strong bond, all i see when i look at them is two guys trapped in the hell of their own making. i also think about crabstickz saying that they have a friendship that most people will never experience - maybe it really is just all there is.

but oh how i want to be proven wrong

spaceguitar
eclipse shirt
Posts: 386
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:22 pm
Pronouns: she/her

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by spaceguitar » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:45 am

papierklemmen I don't think I would describe them as being bro-ish, ever, but I agree that nothing makes me certain they are together. People go on about how they 'ship-bait', or act like they are in a relationship, but I don't agree. I think they're kinda flirty. I think that when Dan says things like 'good job Phil!' or 'that was incredible' this doesn't allude to a relationship, but instead just a dynamic that they have where Dan (condescendingly) compliments Phil.

User avatar
papierklemmen
flower crown
Posts: 730
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:04 am

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by papierklemmen » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:54 am

spaceguitar wrote:papierklemmen I don't think I would describe them as being bro-ish, ever, but I agree that nothing makes me certain they are together. People go on about how they 'ship-bait', or act like they are in a relationship, but I don't agree. I think they're kinda flirty. I think that when Dan says things like 'good job Phil!' or 'that was incredible' this doesn't allude to a relationship, but instead just a dynamic that they have where Dan (condescendingly) compliments Phil.
i would say that "your mom" jokes and dan beating the crap out of phil in their early gaming videos seemed bro-ish to me. 'good job Phil!' or 'that was incredible' don't even sound like something you would say exclusively to your s/o, what lol.

User avatar
psychicmoth
living flop
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:41 am
Pronouns: she/her

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by psychicmoth » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:51 pm

papierklemmen wrote:i'm going to be honest, their ambiguity is what makes my interest in them alive - i'm not one of the "i don't care" people. :lol: i am a big sucker for conspiracy theories and unresolved mysteries and this one topped any mystery of the 20-21 centuries in my book, lol. but as with other unresolved mysteries i think the answer is always the most mundane one, no matter how convincing the extreme explanations are.

i looked through a lot of stuff that could convince me that they are together, because i'd be extremely happy to stan for a "possibly-out-soon" couple, especially if they are bi and are in a long-term relationship (goals tbh!!). but unfortunately, nothing does. :cry:

i found that their timeline most of the time gets reduced to "2009-2011 happy times; 2012-mid2013 no homo; mid 2013-present happy times". but... when looking objectively, it's not really like that? they really started no homo-ing in 2010 and to this day it's still ongoing.

a wall of text
2009 - i think it's the only year that could count as "proof" as they had a homoerotic tweetfest, but even then they had shipbaity stuff like that sex tape bit in the christmas video or dan asnwering if he would kiss phil with "for xx £ i would rape him on video".

2010 - the homoerotism was over, the way they interacted became friendly and bro-ish, except for the february 14 stuff which, if we assume that the vday video is a prank (which i think it is, no matter how much i wanted to believe it wasn't i just couldn't buy phil's acting), was just a part of a cruel joke. nothing they did would point to them being a couple and then they had vids like truth or dare 2 with that baity "phil is touching dan's leg" thumbnail, dan being jokingly horrified that bieber was not a girl when he found "her" attractive, dan being jokingly disgusted by phil touching his leg; and then amazingdan 2 where phil says that he wouldn't want to "interrobang" with dan - all of that long before the voldy leak.

2011 - just bros being bros, dan said he was single in one of the videos (or was it 2010?), bait-y thumbnail of "would you rather", and then voldy leaked for the first time...

2012-2013 - no need to even to remind of this clusterfuck of a period in their lives. everyone and their mum denied "phan", even people who had no business doing that (like teoh/mrtinoforever, or that bryarly girl), bryony said she feels bad for them because they can't do anything without it being misinterpreted, dan's brother said dan has a gf, dan was aggressive af "blowing holes in the ship, everybody cries" with unfairly forgotten passive-aggressive and heteronormative phil in the background who never gets dragged for his actions while dan takes all the blame (he denied being gay too, talked about da ladiez all the time, mocked shippers during ls). as much as i want to dismiss this year as "the no homo" period, dan did say he didn't have a problem with shipping - it's people spreading rumors that they are really dating as if it's a fact based on "contextless tweets" and "connected dots" he had a problem with.

mid 2013-present - they stopped aggressively denying stuff (read: gave up) and became comfortable with acknowledging that they're being shipped, but they adopted a very hammy way of doing that, they emphasize being FRIENDS now more than ever, dan deleted "boyfriend does my makeup" comments on the blindfolded makeup challenge video, he mentioned that he's shipped with his friend in his roast video (which might not mean anything but considering he was honest about other stuff like his veganism or deleted embarrassing stuff from the past...), everything tatinof related is one giant WE.ARE.FRIENDS announcement and phil never slipped up in his heteronormativity.

while dan has been really open with his male celebrity attractions and shushed his female ones lately and phil mostly doesn't bother with either, i can't help but think of a possibility that it could just be a sign of them both having female s/o's, although i would still vote for dan being non-straight
tldr; while all the lies they try to pull don't add up and there's definitely a strong bond, all i see when i look at them is two guys trapped in the hell of their own making. i also think about crabstickz saying that they have a friendship that most people will never experience - maybe it really is just all there is.

but oh how i want to be proven wrong
You have interesting points. It's quite difficult to admit, but it looks like that they are just friends with a special friendship and no more. Life is weird and maybe they have an important reason to keep the mistery alive. Money, brand and recognition? Who knows, life is so strange, they could have crazy and unbelievable reasons to do it. Or just regular reasons, like they don't want to lose their jobs :’) Guys, life is hard.

But the ambiguity it's quite weird too. Why insist on it? I know, "brand", but sometimes it doesn't feel as part of a brand at all but that’s just my perspective anyways. Phan is going to be alive with or without the ambiguous jokes, and shippers will never give up. If they are not a couple, they are going to end up being an emotional mess tbh. Or maybe they are just silly and don't know how to measure their jokes.

By the way, I don't think they have a significant other now, and I don't see how they could have one in the near future. It must be really hard being in a relationship with one of them at this context. Not to mention the crazy shitstorm if people find it out. I know, celebrities go through this all the time, but I don't think the guys could expose someone they love to a situation like that.

My heart wants to believe, but my brain betrays me.
(used to be Maya)
:sparkle: :crystalball: :sparkle:

User avatar
papierklemmen
flower crown
Posts: 730
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:04 am

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by papierklemmen » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:20 pm

Maya wrote:
papierklemmen wrote:i'm going to be honest, their ambiguity is what makes my interest in them alive - i'm not one of the "i don't care" people. :lol: i am a big sucker for conspiracy theories and unresolved mysteries and this one topped any mystery of the 20-21 centuries in my book, lol. but as with other unresolved mysteries i think the answer is always the most mundane one, no matter how convincing the extreme explanations are.

i looked through a lot of stuff that could convince me that they are together, because i'd be extremely happy to stan for a "possibly-out-soon" couple, especially if they are bi and are in a long-term relationship (goals tbh!!). but unfortunately, nothing does. :cry:

i found that their timeline most of the time gets reduced to "2009-2011 happy times; 2012-mid2013 no homo; mid 2013-present happy times". but... when looking objectively, it's not really like that? they really started no homo-ing in 2010 and to this day it's still ongoing.

a wall of text
2009 - i think it's the only year that could count as "proof" as they had a homoerotic tweetfest, but even then they had shipbaity stuff like that sex tape bit in the christmas video or dan asnwering if he would kiss phil with "for xx £ i would rape him on video".

2010 - the homoerotism was over, the way they interacted became friendly and bro-ish, except for the february 14 stuff which, if we assume that the vday video is a prank (which i think it is, no matter how much i wanted to believe it wasn't i just couldn't buy phil's acting), was just a part of a cruel joke. nothing they did would point to them being a couple and then they had vids like truth or dare 2 with that baity "phil is touching dan's leg" thumbnail, dan being jokingly horrified that bieber was not a girl when he found "her" attractive, dan being jokingly disgusted by phil touching his leg; and then amazingdan 2 where phil says that he wouldn't want to "interrobang" with dan - all of that long before the voldy leak.

2011 - just bros being bros, dan said he was single in one of the videos (or was it 2010?), bait-y thumbnail of "would you rather", and then voldy leaked for the first time...

2012-2013 - no need to even to remind of this clusterfuck of a period in their lives. everyone and their mum denied "phan", even people who had no business doing that (like teoh/mrtinoforever, or that bryarly girl), bryony said she feels bad for them because they can't do anything without it being misinterpreted, dan's brother said dan has a gf, dan was aggressive af "blowing holes in the ship, everybody cries" with unfairly forgotten passive-aggressive and heteronormative phil in the background who never gets dragged for his actions while dan takes all the blame (he denied being gay too, talked about da ladiez all the time, mocked shippers during ls). as much as i want to dismiss this year as "the no homo" period, dan did say he didn't have a problem with shipping - it's people spreading rumors that they are really dating as if it's a fact based on "contextless tweets" and "connected dots" he had a problem with.

mid 2013-present - they stopped aggressively denying stuff (read: gave up) and became comfortable with acknowledging that they're being shipped, but they adopted a very hammy way of doing that, they emphasize being FRIENDS now more than ever, dan deleted "boyfriend does my makeup" comments on the blindfolded makeup challenge video, he mentioned that he's shipped with his friend in his roast video (which might not mean anything but considering he was honest about other stuff like his veganism or deleted embarrassing stuff from the past...), everything tatinof related is one giant WE.ARE.FRIENDS announcement and phil never slipped up in his heteronormativity.

while dan has been really open with his male celebrity attractions and shushed his female ones lately and phil mostly doesn't bother with either, i can't help but think of a possibility that it could just be a sign of them both having female s/o's, although i would still vote for dan being non-straight
tldr; while all the lies they try to pull don't add up and there's definitely a strong bond, all i see when i look at them is two guys trapped in the hell of their own making. i also think about crabstickz saying that they have a friendship that most people will never experience - maybe it really is just all there is.

but oh how i want to be proven wrong
You have interesting points. It's quite difficult to admit, but it looks like that they are just friends with a special friendship and no more. Life is weird and maybe they have an important reason to keep the mistery alive. Money, brand and recognition? Who knows, life is so strange, they could have crazy and unbelievable reasons to do it. Or just regular reasons, like they don't want to lose their jobs :’) Guys, life is hard.

But the ambiguity it's quite weird too. Why insist on it? I know, "brand", but sometimes it doesn't feel as part of a brand at all but that’s just my perspective anyways. Phan is going to be alive with or without the ambiguous jokes, and shippers will never give up. If they are not a couple, they are going to end up being an emotional mess tbh. Or maybe they are just silly and don't know how to measure their jokes.

By the way, I don't think they have a significant other now, and I don't see how they could have one in the near future. It must be really hard being in a relationship with one of them at this context. Not to mention the crazy shitstorm if people find it out. I know, celebrities go through this all the time, but I don't think the guys could expose someone they love to a situation like that.

My heart wants to believe, but my brain betrays me.
contrary to everyone's belief, it's possible to keep relationships hidden or have relationships in their kind of situation. they might not have long term partners now since they've been busy for a while, but they might have had on and off relationships with people that never went anywhere after a few months and that's why they never went public (youtubers would usually announce they're dating someone after at least 6 months, i think? depends on the youtuber i guess). as a cynical person who can't keep a date for more than a few months because of my own issues, i would believe in short meaningless relationships more than eternal soulmate romanticized love that phan are supposed to have with each other. i'm sure the other parties wouldn't just walk around spreading that they dated phil or dan unless they were creepy stalkers, they would probably date within their circle - other youtubers, radio, someone from the crew, designers, artists etc. and no one needs negative attention. there were times when they, especially dan, would express genuine sadness over being too busy to have a relationship or that relationships are hard.
they certainly know their brand benefits from the ambiguity, otherwise they would haru all the fanservicy bits in their videos. and as i mentioned before, they might be afraid that half of their fanbase are larries and we all know what happened there - death threats to family members and girlfriends, creepy conspiracy theories about the management hiring beards for the boys, wishing death upon the child, denying the existence of the said child wtf... NO one would want to expose their loved ones to that.

also lol i know it's no use to bring up personal experiences, but
my friend is a lowkey youtuber in my country, working for a gaming site, and she dated her "co-worker" (bigger youtuber from the same site) for about 3 months. no one knew and the guy moved on to another girl, as she thinks but can't confirm. the guy's friends and their mutual youtuber coworkers all think that he hasn't had a gf for 10 years, just because he never goes public and the girls never "out" him, although he's a public figure. so... everything is possible.

annetamiau
lady door
Posts: 184
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 1:52 pm

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by annetamiau » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:23 pm

papierklemmen wrote:
spaceguitar wrote:papierklemmen I don't think I would describe them as being bro-ish, ever, but I agree that nothing makes me certain they are together. People go on about how they 'ship-bait', or act like they are in a relationship, but I don't agree. I think they're kinda flirty. I think that when Dan says things like 'good job Phil!' or 'that was incredible' this doesn't allude to a relationship, but instead just a dynamic that they have where Dan (condescendingly) compliments Phil.
i would say that "your mom" jokes and dan beating the crap out of phil in their early gaming videos seemed bro-ish to me. 'good job Phil!' or 'that was incredible' don't even sound like something you would say exclusively to your s/o, what lol.
Sometimes I wonder if we watch the same youtubers. They are the less bro-ish friends of all times. It's kinda funny.

Dan and Phil being bros in 2009: 'it's hard being away from the one' 'yup'. Hashtag distancesucks.
Dan and Phil being bros in 2016: platonically living together/watching anime together/going on holiday together/ playing video games together/ having breakfast together. Did I say together yet?

But yeah, they probably have secret SO that they keep under the carpet till the creepy shippers look the other way.
Behind every great person, there is a great cat

User avatar
papierklemmen
flower crown
Posts: 730
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:04 am

Re: If you DON'T ship Phan…why not?

Post by papierklemmen » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:30 pm

annetamiau wrote:
papierklemmen wrote:
spaceguitar wrote:papierklemmen I don't think I would describe them as being bro-ish, ever, but I agree that nothing makes me certain they are together. People go on about how they 'ship-bait', or act like they are in a relationship, but I don't agree. I think they're kinda flirty. I think that when Dan says things like 'good job Phil!' or 'that was incredible' this doesn't allude to a relationship, but instead just a dynamic that they have where Dan (condescendingly) compliments Phil.
i would say that "your mom" jokes and dan beating the crap out of phil in their early gaming videos seemed bro-ish to me. 'good job Phil!' or 'that was incredible' don't even sound like something you would say exclusively to your s/o, what lol.
Sometimes I wonder if we watch the same youtubers. They are the less bro-ish friends of all times. It's kinda funny.

Dan and Phil being bros in 2009: 'it's hard being away from the one' 'yup'. Hashtag distancesucks.
Dan and Phil being bros in 2016: platonically living together/watching anime together/going on holiday together/ playing video games together/ having breakfast together. Did I say together yet?

But yeah, they probably have secret SO that they keep under the carpet till the creepy shippers look the other way.
well, we all have different perspectives, it's true! we may be watching the same youtubers but we might perceive them differently, nothing wrong with that. like with voldy - are we allowed to talk about it here? some people think phil is very raw and genuine in it, some people think that he's very tense and having a bad acting moment. or like people see "heart eyes howell" and "love eyes lester" when i can't even see any fondness on actual couples' faces.
i did mention that 2009 was the year when they were flirty and i didnt' say they are being bros in 2016 (cause they grew up and matured and stopped that kinda humour). they were bro-ish around 2010-2013.

whatevs.

Post Reply