Dan & Phil Part 99: OnlyPhans

[alittledizzy]

Hey guys! I'm a long-time lurker and I just made an account to let you guys know that a few Canadian book retailers have extensive previews of Dan's book! The first 20ish pages are available to read now. The psychologist who he worked with is also named which I'm happy to see

Chapters Canada link (click the Free Preview button under the cover) of the index and extended introduction chapter: https://www.chapters.indigo.ca/en-ca/bo ... 59f76723d1

Harper Collins Canada link to the "How To Use This Book" chapter: https://preview.aer.io/You_Will_Get_Thr ... rcollinsca

Omg thank you for this!!!

I'm definitely of the mindset that this preview even further reassured me that Dan has absolutely done his due diligence with ensuring that he's not out there giving bad advice. I really like the emphasis how he's not preaching just one type of therapy/mindset/etc when it comes to mental health - and yeah, that won't go over well for people who have already tried and know what doesn't work for them, but for someone just getting started trying to figure out what might help most? It's going to be ideal.

I definitely agree that this isn't written for phandom. If it were, why would his intro be laying out who he is? We are the built in audience that ensures the book will be a financial success but we aren't the end goal here. I'm very sure Dan wrote something that he wants to be read and utilized by people who have never heard of him before, I hope for his sake that happens. There may even be a whole demographic of people that haven't watched him in years but do pick it up because they're trying to break through their own mental health and his is the name and face they recognize.

[Marika]

Thank you so much for the previews! I finally wanted to preorder the book, but I‘m a bit confused.
I want to buy the UK version, but the two versions are listed with a rather big page count gap.
UK: 252
US: 320

I‘m sorry if this has been explained before, but does anyone know why there’s such a difference? Is it just formatting/font size? Are the number just wrong? Or is there actually additional content? (I doubt that’s the case but now I‘m scared of ordering the wrong book and missing out...)

[rizzo]

I'm awake. I'm bright-eyed..... not quite bushy-tailed and I still have feelings.

I don't think the phandom necessarily is the target audience though. Obviously both Dan and the publishers are relying on us supporting any project he takes on to sell a good number of the books but from the way Dan has been interacting with us in the last couple of years (excluding the Stereo content blitz), this was always meant to be a personal passion project that was intended to reach wider audiences than just us.

What we have so far is just the introduction (personal intro to him and his story set out for non-phans mostly with a bit of new info mixed in) and the 'How To Use This Book' chapter which sets out the basics of mental health and background knowledge you need for the rest of the book. Yes, it's very technical but it kind of needs to be. He could hardly jump straight in assuming that everyone is on the same level knowledge-wise with this kind of thing, especially when he's made a point when talking about the book so far of hoping to reach people who don't necessarily think about their mental health in much depth like the Phil's of the world.

I'm fairly sure the actual chapters of the book will be in the middle of these two chapters tone-wise. Practical info interspersed with personal stories more in line with the intro than the short one-liners used in the HTUTB chapter which were clearly only there to try and maintain interest in the parts people might find dry as they didn't add anything. Tbh as someone who has done a lot of therapy and did a bunch of psych subjects in uni, he's already mentioned one psychotherapy I've not heard of so I don't know that I'd go so far as to say it's going to be all that simple. He's definitely going to be introducing me to some new concepts along the way.

Call me pretentious too but this boy has clearly done his research and I'm so down to read his passion project on mental health he wrote in close collaboration with a non-Youtuber clinical psychologist. But again, this is totally my jam. He clearly didn't write this for a quick buck and there will definitely be a lot of people who won't enjoy this type of book but for those who are into it, this is a really promising preview imo.

I couldn't agree with this whole post more. I was gonna highlight some bits to respond to, but I love the whole thing!!

Frankly, with the topics this book intends to cover - peppered with Dan's light humor - I almost wish the book had a more... eye-catching title? Like. I fully agree this isn't intended exclusively for the Phandom. Dan clearly wants to reach out to people like himself who've felt lost. I mean, just look at his dedication:

Dedication
I’ve written this book for myself, the younger Dan
that I wish could have read these pages. I hope this
book can do the same for anyone who needs it.

Thank you to the friends and followers in my life
that have given me patience and kindness.
I am here because of you.

As a result, I sort of wish the book had slightly less of a fanciful title? I'm not sure what that could be, but my brain always wanders back to like "10% Happier" or "Everything is Figure Outable" or "Maybe You Should Talk to Someone": all of these suggest the topic a bit better to me than "You Will Get Through This Night", but perhaps that's just a personal perspective from someone who really wants this book to succeed in the way Dan wants it to succeed.

It’s just the introduction so I wanna wait before giving a full opinion on the whole book, but for now the only thing I can say is that I found it very boring to the point I skimmed through it very fast because I just.. didn’t care. Sorry but I am not a fan of self help books in general and that introduction felt too technical. Again, I wanna wait before saying anything definitive, but atm it’s definitely not my cup of tea.

Personally, same!

If we the phandom are the target of this book, then I feel most of us know the basics of mental health he's touching on (having all grown up in Internet era), so reading it sounds a bit boring and, coming from dan, it also gives me vibe of someone who's taking himself too seriously while trying to pretend he doesn't with the joke here and there (he mentions his career in a detailed manner while it could have been left to the little bio in the book ).

I would argue this point a bit. You can't really generalize the phandom and assume everyone here knows the basics of mental health. In fact, a lot of the audience Dan cultivated for many years was one that, intentionally or not, was going through very similar struggles as Dan. It's why we related and felt connected to him. And those same people might not have the resources to pay for a few different therapists and doctors and to get medicine and/or the help they personally need. So, in fact, even for Phandom, this could be a fantastic read.

I said it in my initial post, but it's worth repeating that while this is just the intro, I'm incredibly impressed. He put in the work and he put the research and he put in the collaboration and I'm excited to read the book!

I think someone also pointed out that the book feels a bit dry? But... idk I think that's important for the topic. He did his best to lighten it, but... it's a mental health guide at the end of the day. And honestly, when has Dan not taken things like this intensely seriously? Like, he certainly cracks his own jokes every once in a while, but this is a man who has a quality threshold. Any light-hearted long-form content from him has often been balanced out by Phil's comic relief. Point is... I never really expected Dan to publish a comedic, happy-go-lucky romp through mental health, ya know?

I should also say that I'm a huge fan of non-fiction books - they make up a good half of what I read in any given year - and self-help is a big part of that. Dan's book leans more fact-based than story-telling (it seems so far) and tbh I really value that.

Anyway. I have more thoughts but they're all meshing together and end up with me blurting out an excited squeak. So I'll stop here.

[Megancita75]

I read one of the previews (not sure if there is different info in the other one) and my first reaction is that it's fine. Like, it's about what I expected he was going for -- a very basic introduction to some widely accepted and general mental health concepts. To me Dan is coming at this from a place I recognize from my own experiences -- which is the feeling of radical discovery I had after my very first (and most serious) depressive episode in my early 20s. Once I came out of it, I did feel very much like I'd learned things I didn't know before (because I hadn't had to) about why I became depressed in the first place, about how to identify my thoughts and emotions and the physical sensations in my body in a way that was more helpful to me, about how to self-soothe, and about how to learn to understand myself and my behaviors in a kinder way. And I remember that time in life felt ground-breaking, like "how did no one tell me these things before?", and I very much wanted to shout to everyone about what I'd learned as if I was the first person to ever learn it, because that's truly what it felt like to me.

My only quibbles with the intro is that I do hope somewhere the book makes a distinction between general mental health issues (like depression and anxiety) and other mental health issues like mood cycling or hallucinations that require other techniques/interventions that are beyond the scope of this more general book. I also knew that I'd have to grit my teeth at his comma splices, and that premonition has come to pass in this preview chapter

I know this book will be divisive among hard-core fans; but as others have noted, we aren't the only (or even the main) audience. This preview chapter is telling readers what to expect, which I always think is a wise move. Since this is my first fandom, this will be my first reading experience where I care about the author or know much about them as a person -- that's quite different from every other reading experience I've had of fiction or non-fiction, where at most I might know some general biographical details about the writer but otherwise I'm just interacting to and responding with the words on the page, and not really with a conception of the author as a person.

I'm very curious how my "knowing" Dan will impact how I read this, and I know I won't be able to read it with the same lens I read everything else in my life. I recently bought Kelsey Darragh's book about panic/anxiety -- and while she's someone I casually followed on Buzzfeed when she was there and now casually follow on Instagram -- I don't have the same feeling of "knowing" her that I do with Dan, and I'll be curious when I read her book if I will approach it with the same heightened feelings I know I will have reading Dan's book and how that difference will affect my reception of her book.

I'm glad this preview chapter was released -- I think it's a good way to set expectations for the tenor and content of the book. (I still will probably dip out the week it's published, as even this minor level of critique unleashed by the preview release is kinda overwhelming -- so there's some self-care in action!)

[alittledizzy]

I read one of the previews (not sure if there is different info in the other one) and my first reaction is that it's fine. Like, it's about what I expected he was going for -- a very basic introduction to some widely accepted and general mental health concepts.

They're very different! One is the introduction to Dan as a person, the other is about mental health concepts.

[liola]

Hmmm. I read both previews because while I'm biased in that I don't like this kind of book, I wanted to see if there was something sparking interest within me. I didn't have any intention to buy the book before, and both previews just cemented that decision for me.

Personally speaking I just found it.. bland? I found myself going "yeah okay? and? what's the point here?" Some of the titles made me roll my eyes - DON'T PANIC, sure, right, will do that right away oh how could I not think about that before?! lmao I know it was a more technical introduction but it felt a bit like a potpourri of notions, which I guess was what they were aiming for.

I'd be interested to know in just what extent the professional really collaborated, from what it was written it seemed more like an overview and editing, but maybe some of the technicalities were shared by the professional. I wouldn't be able to tell, since it was all written from Dan's POV.

All in all, it left me uninterested but even more confused as to what the goal of the book should be. I guess this is a personal opinion, but mental health is something that is deeply personal and can vary a lot from person to person. It's the same distrust that I have when someone gives nutrition or exercise advice to better your physical health, because they do not take into consideration any of the hundreds or thousands small differences than can affect even the most simple of advice like "you should walk tot minutes every day". It doesn't want to be an academic book, it doesn't want to be a substitute to a professional if someone has serious issues... so what is the difference between this and all the other books out there? This is still not clear to me, but I'm not personally interested in finding out.

The writing made me chuckle, mostly because it feels like a style I also use and it's making me wonder if it's just the kind of writing style people on the internet that have read tons of fanfiction use as a default

[Megancita75]

Ok, I've read the other, more personal preview, and I like it! It's more insight into where's he been at emotionally at different stages in his life (did he mask the name of his hometown, though?).

And I think he's been pretty clear in what I've read that this isn't meant to be a one-size-fits-all book. I also feel like (in America, at least) this genre of book is incredibly common. The "this is something I've gone through in my life and what I learned from it and maybe it will help you" type of non-fiction memoir-lite book. I tend to read these kinds of books not because I'm looking for a step-by-step solution but because I'm interested in people's lives and what has worked for them (Right now I'm thinking of the book "The Fuck It Diet" which I read b/c I'm interested in intuitive eating; but I also read it because I like reading about people's personal relationship to food (which the author uses as a lens to talk about the themes in her book) and about the dieting industry/beauty industry in general; I came away from the book taking from it what I wanted, but not feeling like everything she talked about or recommended would work for me.)

[lefthandedism]

I think something that's a bit on the "dry", "bland", "skimmable" side is to be expected in introductory chapters. (Introductory chapters are literally designed to be skippable if you want to get to the main part of the book.) I have to imagine that the main book will contain many anecdotes--not only because that 's one of Dan's great strengths, but because that's how books like this are structured, in order to draw people in.

Speaking of anecdotes, have we heard this one before?

"personally, my brain is more occupied randomly resurfacing the cringe-inducing memory of when I tripped into a teacher’s boob when I was 13"

I remember the one about him accidentally untying a girl's bathing suit top, but not this one.

[alittledizzy]

All in all, it left me uninterested but even more confused as to what the goal of the book should be. I guess this is a personal opinion, but mental health is something that is deeply personal and can vary a lot from person to person. It's the same distrust that I have when someone gives nutrition or exercise advice to better your physical health, because they do not take into consideration any of the hundreds or thousands small differences than can affect even the most simple of advice like "you should walk tot minutes every day". It doesn't want to be an academic book, it doesn't want to be a substitute to a professional if someone has serious issues... so what is the difference between this and all the other books out there? This is still not clear to me, but I'm not personally interested in finding out.

First: I do recognize that you said you aren't interested in finding out the answer, and I respect that. But I still kinda wanna answer from my pov since you put it out there.

I actually feel like the introduction does state the goal pretty clearly, which is what an introduction should be. The answers/tools aren't going to be contained within the first few pages (for example, "don't panic") but it's just giving you a hint of the questions/concepts it wants to address (panicking!) and what's to come in the book (ways to help you not panic). It's not specific advice that is meant to apply to everyone at once, but it's something that will give you a basis of understanding of many different approaches - I have to be honest, some of which even in his introduction I had never heard of before. Like Compassion-Focused Therapy? Literally the first time I've ever seen that. I get the impression that his goal is to say 'here's a thing, this is the science behind the thing, this is what the thing could do to help you, here's a story that gives you a personal relation between me and the thing' and then move on to the next thing. Maybe there are a hundred books out there just like that, but if every genre was only allowed to have one or two books about it then bookstores would be awfully boring, perspective-less places.

(Also do totally think the writing style is an internet-era thing, I noticed that too!)

[Levitating]

As a result, I sort of wish the book had slightly less of a fanciful title? I'm not sure what that could be, but my brain always wanders back to like "10% Happier" or "Everything is Figure Outable" or "Maybe You Should Talk to Someone": all of these suggest the topic a bit better to me than "You Will Get Through This Night", but perhaps that's just a personal perspective from someone who really wants this book to succeed in the way Dan wants it to succeed.

I completely agree with this! The fact is their marketing strategy is catered towards the phandom, as shared pages ago, but Dan clearly wants to go reach a wider audiences and this is what creates the (for me) unpleasant clash. It feels he is ignoring us and talking to that wider, new audience - an audience who, if young, I doubt needs/wants this book (internet and social media share much more); if older, is not well cared for in the book (boomers reading this?)

I would argue this point a bit. You can't really generalize the phandom and assume everyone here knows the basics of mental health. In fact, a lot of the audience Dan cultivated for many years was one that, intentionally or not, was going through very similar struggles as Dan. It's why we related and felt connected to him. And those same people might not have the resources to pay for a few different therapists and doctors and to get medicine and/or the help they personally need. So, in fact, even for Phandom, this could be a fantastic read.

The fact is that because he cannot possibly personalise the content, the content will be... basic, thus content that that NHS/mental health charities/social media will publish online for general help. It is a book that I would gift to someone who does not care about mental health, which is not the current/our generation, not the phandom.

And yeah, you're right, he always takes himself very seriously. Sometimes and here especially, it just feels like it is about taking himself "too" seriously, because he is personally trying to reach a wider audience while his marketing team is working for the phandom/young generation.

[liola]

All in all, it left me uninterested but even more confused as to what the goal of the book should be. I guess this is a personal opinion, but mental health is something that is deeply personal and can vary a lot from person to person. It's the same distrust that I have when someone gives nutrition or exercise advice to better your physical health, because they do not take into consideration any of the hundreds or thousands small differences than can affect even the most simple of advice like "you should walk tot minutes every day". It doesn't want to be an academic book, it doesn't want to be a substitute to a professional if someone has serious issues... so what is the difference between this and all the other books out there? This is still not clear to me, but I'm not personally interested in finding out.

First: I do recognize that you said you aren't interested in finding out the answer, and I respect that. But I still kinda wanna answer from my pov since you put it out there.

I actually feel like the introduction does state the goal pretty clearly, which is what an introduction should be. The answers/tools aren't going to be contained within the first few pages (for example, "don't panic") but it's just giving you a hint of the questions/concepts it wants to address (panicking!) and what's to come in the book (ways to help you not panic). It's not specific advice that is meant to apply to everyone at once, but it's something that will give you a basis of understanding of many different approaches - I have to be honest, some of which even in his introduction I had never heard of before. Like Compassion-Focused Therapy? Literally the first time I've ever seen that. I get the impression that his goal is to say 'here's a thing, this is the science behind the thing, this is what the thing could do to help you, here's a story that gives you a personal relation between me and the thing' and then move on to the next thing. Maybe there are a hundred books out there just like that, but if every genre was only allowed to have one or two books about it then bookstores would be awfully boring, perspective-less places.

(Also do totally think the writing style is an internet-era thing, I noticed that too!)

Again, this is my personal opinions on it and if anyone will find this book helpful I'm only gonna be glad but.. what is the point of knowing the difference between CBT and CFT? Me, a reader, a person who might or might not experience mental health issues, what benefit could I get from knowing the difference? No one will give therapy to themselves, it isn't possible to apply the methods, you will always need a professional (if you're able to because that is also a privilege in many cases) and that professional will decide what kind of approach to use based on who you are, what you experienced, their own experience and knowledge in the field and so on. You might have experience with a specific approach and figure out if you liked it or not, but would someone really go to a professional and say "yes I know of this let's do this"? Like, I wouldn't, but maybe that's me.

I just.. I don't see what someone would get out of this book I guess, but again this is coming from someone who had no intention to buy it to begin with, and someone who don't think we'll get any tidbit about him that would interest me, so take this with a grain of salt I guess. It's my own questioning about the book, and I'm very glad to understand other perspectives!

[alittledizzy]

All in all, it left me uninterested but even more confused as to what the goal of the book should be. I guess this is a personal opinion, but mental health is something that is deeply personal and can vary a lot from person to person. It's the same distrust that I have when someone gives nutrition or exercise advice to better your physical health, because they do not take into consideration any of the hundreds or thousands small differences than can affect even the most simple of advice like "you should walk tot minutes every day". It doesn't want to be an academic book, it doesn't want to be a substitute to a professional if someone has serious issues... so what is the difference between this and all the other books out there? This is still not clear to me, but I'm not personally interested in finding out.

First: I do recognize that you said you aren't interested in finding out the answer, and I respect that. But I still kinda wanna answer from my pov since you put it out there.

I actually feel like the introduction does state the goal pretty clearly, which is what an introduction should be. The answers/tools aren't going to be contained within the first few pages (for example, "don't panic") but it's just giving you a hint of the questions/concepts it wants to address (panicking!) and what's to come in the book (ways to help you not panic). It's not specific advice that is meant to apply to everyone at once, but it's something that will give you a basis of understanding of many different approaches - I have to be honest, some of which even in his introduction I had never heard of before. Like Compassion-Focused Therapy? Literally the first time I've ever seen that. I get the impression that his goal is to say 'here's a thing, this is the science behind the thing, this is what the thing could do to help you, here's a story that gives you a personal relation between me and the thing' and then move on to the next thing. Maybe there are a hundred books out there just like that, but if every genre was only allowed to have one or two books about it then bookstores would be awfully boring, perspective-less places.

(Also do totally think the writing style is an internet-era thing, I noticed that too!)

Again, this is my personal opinions on it and if anyone will find this book helpful I'm only gonna be glad but.. what is the point of knowing the difference between CBT and CFT? Me, a reader, a person who might or might not experience mental health issues, what benefit could I get from knowing the difference? No one will give therapy to themselves, it isn't possible to apply the methods, you will always need a professional (if you're able to because that is also a privilege in many cases) and that professional will decide what kind of approach to use based on who you are, what you experienced, their own experience and knowledge in the field and so on. You might have experience with a specific approach and figure out if you liked it or not, but would someone really go to a professional and say "yes I know of this let's do this"? Like, I wouldn't, but maybe that's me.

I just.. I don't see what someone would get out of this book I guess, but again this is coming from someone who had no intention to buy it to begin with, and someone who don't think we'll get any tidbit about him that would interest me, so take this with a grain of salt I guess. It's my own questioning about the book, and I'm very glad to understand other perspectives!

I'm kind of sitting here like 'huh' because I hadn't considered that perspective before. That last part where you said you wouldn't? Is totally me.

I'm just like... the kind of person that always approaches a doctor wanting to be able to meet them in the middle with whatever I'm seeing them about. When I saw my doctor I showed up with two pages of notes of what I've tried before, what didn't work, and what I was interested in. Therapy for me is the same thing. Yeah, the doctor knows more than me and I need their input with technical application - but I still want to know something before I walk in. I don't trust doctors enough just to blindly take their word. I want to know what I think will work and what won't beforehand, and I will consider their input, but they know what works from a technical point while I know what works for me as a person.

Maybe this is even just the American in me jumping out but I don't trust a doctor to give me all the options? Even before I went on anxiety meds I approached it like 'This is what I think is going on with me, previous doctors said/tried this, these are the options I'm not interested in, this is what I am open to, this is what isn't even relevant to me.' and with therapy I imagine I'd be the exact same way. So for me a book like this sounds pretty damn ideal in wanting to try and understand myself/my options and cut to the chase with a therapist without wasting either of our time or my money.

[liola]

Again, this is my personal opinions on it and if anyone will find this book helpful I'm only gonna be glad but.. what is the point of knowing the difference between CBT and CFT? Me, a reader, a person who might or might not experience mental health issues, what benefit could I get from knowing the difference? No one will give therapy to themselves, it isn't possible to apply the methods, you will always need a professional (if you're able to because that is also a privilege in many cases) and that professional will decide what kind of approach to use based on who you are, what you experienced, their own experience and knowledge in the field and so on. You might have experience with a specific approach and figure out if you liked it or not, but would someone really go to a professional and say "yes I know of this let's do this"? Like, I wouldn't, but maybe that's me.

I just.. I don't see what someone would get out of this book I guess, but again this is coming from someone who had no intention to buy it to begin with, and someone who don't think we'll get any tidbit about him that would interest me, so take this with a grain of salt I guess. It's my own questioning about the book, and I'm very glad to understand other perspectives!

I'm kind of sitting here like 'huh' because I hadn't considered that perspective before. That last part where you said you wouldn't? Is totally me.

I'm just like... the kind of person that always approaches a doctor wanting to be able to meet them in the middle with whatever I'm seeing them about. When I saw my doctor I showed up with two pages of notes of what I've tried before, what didn't work, and what I was interested in. Therapy for me is the same thing. Yeah, the doctor knows more than me and I need their input with technical application - but I still want to know something before I walk in. I don't trust doctors enough just to blindly take their word. I want to know what I think will work and what won't beforehand, and I will consider their input, but they know what works from a technical point while I know what works for me as a person.

Maybe this is even just the American in me jumping out but I don't trust a doctor to give me all the options? Even before I went on anxiety meds I approached it like 'This is what I think is going on with me, previous doctors said/tried this, these are the options I'm not interested in, this is what I am open to, this is what isn't even relevant to me.' and with therapy I imagine I'd be the exact same way. So for me a book like this sounds pretty damn ideal in wanting to try and understand myself/my options and cut to the chase with a therapist without wasting either of our time or my money.

Ah. Well, that's... uh completely different than what I'm used to and I wouldn't wanna speak for an entire country but I don't know many other people here who wouldn't also think the same as me. You don't just...go to a doctor and propose something to them? If you've tried something already and it didn't work then by all means make it known (although they usually have your file so most things are written there) but they just.. look at what has been done already, the problem at hand, talk to you, ask you questions then give the advice and receipt to go book whatever visit they suggested/buy whatever medication. And like... sure, you can refuse, I guess, nothing Is ever forced upon you but there isn't really a.. bargain about it?

I don't know I'm honestly very baffled by this lmao Granted, my dad is a doctor working at our NHS, most of the people in my family are nurses or work in hospital environments, trusting a doctor is just.. normal. It's their job, they studied years for it, how can anyone I say compare to that kind of knowledge? I wouldn't suggest a builder on how to build a house so I personally wouldn't suggest a doctor how to advise in their care for me. So yeah, to me something that has the idea to describe different approaches has no value because I wouldn't be like "ah, cool, I'm gonna choose which one sounds more likely to work on me and see if they offer it" because how would I know? My experience in therapy and physical health personally has been here's who I am, here's my most pressing issues, let's figure out what works best.

I guess I now see how someone could have a different view than me

[Megancita75]

Oh yeah, I’ve definitely walked into a therapist’s office and said something along the lines of “I am not interested in CBT but I would be open to ACT and might want to find out your opinions on DBT.” I am sure some therapists hate clients like that who have already read a bunch of stuff on modalities and have opinions on what will or won’t work for them, but on the other hand it means the client is self-motivated to seek out help which has got to be a good sign in some respects too.

[lefthandedism]

Maybe this is even just the American in me jumping out but I don't trust a doctor to give me all the options? Even before I went on anxiety meds I approached it like 'This is what I think is going on with me, previous doctors said/tried this, these are the options I'm not interested in, this is what I am open to, this is what isn't even relevant to me.' and with therapy I imagine I'd be the exact same way. So for me a book like this sounds pretty damn ideal in wanting to try and understand myself/my options and cut to the chase with a therapist without wasting either of our time or my money.

I just set up a deep tissue massage appointment for the first time in more than a year, and I was explaining to the scheduler (at a place I haven't been) that I'm very experienced in having deep tissue work, that I know what I want and don't want, that I want a therapist open to discussing with me, and that ultimately I want to be able to turn myself over to the therapist's expertise. I guess I'm American too.

In any event, learning about stuff is one of the reasons I read books. It might be something I'm researching, it might be a casual interest, or it might be totally random, but I guess I'm always fine with a book explaining stuff to me. If I'm bored I'll skim, but I'm unlikely to throw a book down for having information.

[glitterintheair]

Yeah I agree with opheliola, because here that mindset doesn’t really work. In my personal experience, I’ve always trusted doctors because they studied for their job, they exist for a reason, so I think they know better than I ever would. Like, I tell them what’s wrong with me, what I have tried before and then we work together to find a solution. But it’s the doctor the one suggesting me what might work, not the opposite. Especially ‘cause.. how would I know? I could read Dan’s book and want to take his advice but that doesn’t mean it’d be the good thing to do because we are all different people with different problems and a general advice can’t be effective on everyone. This is very subjective but I’d rather follow a qualified doctor’s advice than anyone else when it comes to my health.

[alittledizzy]

Yeah I agree with opheliola, because here that mindset doesn’t really work. In my personal experience, I’ve always trusted doctors because they studied for their job, they exist for a reason, so I think they know better than I ever would. Like, I tell them what’s wrong with me, what I have tried before and then we work together to find a solution. But it’s the doctor the one suggesting me what might work, not the opposite. Especially ‘cause.. how would I know? I could read Dan’s book and want to take his advice but that doesn’t mean it’d be the good thing to do because we are all different people with different problems and a general advice can’t be effective on everyone. This is very subjective but I’d rather follow a qualified doctor’s advice than anyone else when it comes to my health.

I don't want to assume that no one in the US has a good experience with doctors, it depends a lot on what kind of insurance you have and what kind of care you can afford. But what I've always experienced is that if you don't go in advocating for yourself and what you want then you're just in and out in five minutes with the most basic of treatments. I saw a specialist doctor last week and I started out by saying, "I'm looking for non-medication options because of an ulcer." and it ended with the doctor telling me, as he walked out the door, to go home and take some over the counter naproxen. The entire thing was under fifteen minutes and I paid over $300 out of pocket for it which just reaffirmed for me that I have to know what will work for me and what I want out of an appointment, because most doctors here are just trying to fit the most appointments they can into a day for billing purposes.

I also can't say a therapist would for sure be the same because that's not covered in my insurance plan and I definitely can't afford to see one but this is just the mindset I work with and why a book like Dan's with an overview approach is appealing to me. If I did want to see one and had the money to pay for it, I would want to be able to pick a therapist with experience in the kind of techniques I am already interested in otherwise I'd be spending a small fortune therapist shopping.

[inanerat]

I hadn't considered it but it might very well be somewhat of a cultural mindset thing. I'm from the US too and I definitely like to go into an appointment with some ideas, as well as being open to doctor's input.

For example, I met with a doc I trust and really like, we've worked together for a few years and I wanted to check in on some things and discuss options and I very clearly went into the appointment with like.
-a descriptive (symptom) type list of things that were going on for me that I didn't like/wanted to talk about
-some ideas of potentially what might be underlying causes, as well as asks for her input and interpretations
-some ideas of things we might decide to do, from things we had talked about before as well as some outside info
-an explicit and clear question of 'what are other options, and what are pro/cons?'
I definitely feel from experience that here in the US you get a much better experience with doctors when you are assertive but are also open to their expertise. It's a balance. (although keep in mind this also comes from a trans person so I'm more used to dealing with doctors/mental health professionals that aren't always super educated on things that are very relevant to my situation)

In terms of knowing different types of therapy and their acronyms, etc. I think it can be helpful just to have a understanding of what's out there, but also depending on how you go about finding a therapist (depending on country/insurance situations) you may want to start out seeking someone who specializes in a certain type of therapy if it is one you are interested in or think might be more helpful for you. Obviously it's also important when meeting with them that they also agree that something is a good fit for you and that what they can offer is a good fit for you. Depends I guess, but having more information is rarely a bad thing, although it may not be relevant to you

[starsandshards]

I'm in the UK and I trained as a nurse for some time. You are all mentioning things which relate to what is called your "health belief system" edit: health belief model, sorry, it's been some years since I studied it. It's heavily influenced by society, geography, religion/spirituality, past experiences with healthcare and so much more. I always find it a bit fascinating. Usually we see older people with the health belief system that the doctor is always right and that they do not have a say or opinion in their own healthcare plan. Younger people usually the opposite. It's interesting to me to see this all written out by you guys. Personally I feel like while doctors have had a lot of training and are technically experts, they don't know it all. Therefore I try to be an active participant in my healthcare and do not merely accept the first suggestion offered. It takes a lot of courage to challenge someone in a position of authority and there are so many factors working against certain groups so it's understandable that some people have a certain health belief system.

Anyway. I cannot seem to access the Harper Collins preview and I wanna see it

[LadyLackless]

Ok, I've read the other, more personal preview, and I like it! It's more insight into where's he been at emotionally at different stages in his life (did he mask the name of his hometown, though?).

Nope! Winnersh is a real, grim suburb, close to Wokingham, that is exactly as depressing as he describes it. I drive through it (and past his old school) every time I go to my sister-in-law’s house!

[LAshleigh]

I don't want to assume that no one in the US has a good experience with doctors, it depends a lot on what kind of insurance you have and what kind of care you can afford. But what I've always experienced is that if you don't go in advocating for yourself and what you want then you're just in and out in five minutes with the most basic of treatments. I saw a specialist doctor last week and I started out by saying, "I'm looking for non-medication options because of an ulcer." and it ended with the doctor telling me, as he walked out the door, to go home and take some over the counter naproxen. The entire thing was under fifteen minutes and I paid over $300 out of pocket for it which just reaffirmed for me that I have to know what will work for me and what I want out of an appointment, because most doctors here are just trying to fit the most appointments they can into a day for billing purposes.

As an American with some health issues who has a fiancée with multiple chronic health issues, this is 100% our experience. Last time I went to my Primary Care Physician, he was literally walking out the door as I tried to tell him about pain I had started experiencing. Last time I went to the gynocologist, I paid $125 (with insurance) to talk to her for maybe 15 minutes. If I didn't have ideas ahead of time, we would have gotten nowhere! Most of the time, my fiancée and I have to do the research ourselves, present the doctor with an idea and see if they will run the test/prescribe the meds/etc.

When I started therapy, things were much more relaxed, but my therapist still threw out a bunch of acronyms and said "which type of therapy would you like to try"? I knew about mayyybe one of them, so it could have been helpful to read a book ahead of time to get a good idea of what I wanted (again, because therapy without insurance coverage is $125/session, and at that price I am not going to waste a single moment).

[kavat]

Reading those two chapters made me very excited for the book. If it's all old news to you then I guess it's maybe not that interesting, but we have to remember that the majority of people don't have chronic mental health issues and maybe hasn't had a reason to actively look up these things (because it's still not talked about at any wide capacity outside of certain communities). Most people will go through periods of worse health though (as said in the book) and it's a good thing to be prepared if that happens.

I think this book would have helped me a lot a couple of years ago when I experienced proper anxiety for the first time and I had no clue what was happening to me. The website for our NHS didn't give any actual advice, googling just lead to clickbaity listlicles about drinking water and having a sleep schedule (thanks, I couldn't sleep, that was the problem) or other very unreliable recourses. Thankfully for me it was just a period that passed, but I would definitely have valued having a book like this to actually give both advice and explanations to what was happening (I think I even looked for books on anxiety in my language and didn't find any that spoke to me at all).

All in all, I think it's great that Dan is using his platform to spread knowledge that isn't as widespread as it should be. I also trust him to be perfectionist enough about it to be as well written as it possibly can be from a layman.

[Megancita75]

I think the other part of the excerpts that jumped out at me was the profound sense of isolation and alienation he hints at -- like, self-hatred is such a powerful thing, and then not having a feeling of meaningful connection with the people around you on top of that can compound it (and I know he had Phil, but I'm just gonna say that one person sometimes isn't enough). You know, I always thought the whole "British stiff upper lip" was sort of a cultural joke, but can the Brits on this board chime in -- do you think talking about feelings is really discouraged culturally, still, in the UK? I'm an American, and while I'll say it of course varies from family to family, culturally (at least in my lifetime), I feel like having feelings and talking about them is more encouraged than discouraged. For me, that plays out in having difficulty talking to my family about emotional stuff because it's not something my family knows how to do, really, but among my friends and even casual acquaintances, talking about our inner emotional lives is pretty common. (edited to add: my friends are mostly women, which might also be a factor in play here too)

[alittledizzy]

Our weekly Dan tweet!

and obligatory 'we get it, you're married' in the replies

[Levitating]

You & @AmazingPhil are the only ambient noise I need! lol!

Honestly, so true!

I think the other part of the excerpts that jumped out at me was the profound sense of isolation and alienation he hints at -- like, self-hatred is such a powerful thing, and then not having a feeling of meaningful connection with the people around you on top of that can compound it (and I know he had Phil, but I'm just gonna say that one person sometimes isn't enough).

I found this interesting and wonder how much he goes into this further down in the book. Will he mention Phil/couple dynamics (even as friends) when dealing w mental health problems?

One thing that struck me during the LGBT student thing is that Dan mentioned calling up friends in the middle of the night just to have someone to talk to. I wonder how this relates to Phil