Dan & Phil Part 102: crisis twinks

[LAshleigh]

Am I allowed to have a headcannon that the miniseries PJ is hoping to direct (see today's video) is Dan's and we will get adorable content of them all together?

Like, 95% sure it isn't true, but...

[nøx]

Okay, I think there's some confusion about what exactly Daniel said that I believe is out of touch.

Of course I understand that mental illness isn't affected by things like money, status etc. Of course youtubers can struggle. That's totally fine and valid.

I think it's immensely out of touch for Daniel to act like being a Youtuber in general is terrible. He mentioned the money once, but he was so caught up in how horrible everything was - the phandom, the algorithm, censorship for ads, how mainstream media viewed him, etc etc - that he seemed to have zero grasp on how fortunate he is.

Yeah, beause the fortunate aspects weren't the focus of this specific video. Admittedly, I would say that Dan has never been super verbose about "saying thank you" and tends to keep it a bit more along the lines of "wow, apparently all of you want to see a mediocre dude being self-deprecating" (I get it lol, I too am awkward with the spotlight and positive attention.) But I think it's really unfair to say that he seems to have zero grasp on how fortunate and lucky he is because he made a video focused on the parts that he has struggled with because I don't think that that notion of his luck has ever - generally - been missing. But maybe we just disagree already on that part.

This is what I mean by I feel "his therapist is validating him too much" - sure, maybe that's in poor taste, but someone needs to tell him that he has mental illness - his issues aren't all caused by being a Youtuber.

Firstly, external circumstances can very well be the cause of mental illness. Secondly, he never claims that all of "his issues" are caused by being a youtuber. If anything, he seems to trace most of it back to years of physical abuse to the point of (reading only slightly between the lines) fearing for his life - and to his dad and childhood homelife, summarised more or less in BIG with "issues of economic class, violence and addiction."
He knows he has a mental illness (depression.) He has never claimed it's caused by being a youtuber. He has mentioned developing an enxiety disorder from how YTO's treatment of him & the pressure of the spotlight intersected which is... totally possible

Most therapists will encourage their clients to see reality for what it is, after a strong relationship has been formed. I think this is missing in Daniel. Totally could not be the fault of his therapist. But he's acting like therapy has helped him when he doesn't seem to have improved his attitude at all.

I'm gonna be blunt, it sounds mostly like you want him to express your own specific idea of his reality & express more humbleness/gratitude. Yeah it's nice to see people really acknowledge and express gratitude for things they have that others don't but they're allowed to discuss the things that aren't working - especially when fans have been quite vocal about wanting to know why he "isn't working" and demanding this exact explanation.
Now, I'm not a youtuber so I don't actually know what it's like to be one, and especially not with that amount of attention/eternal spotlight that Dan has. Nobody has ever given me grief for not, say, showing (cough monetizing) my creative process. Maybe it's naive of me to take a bunch of youtubers' (or Bo Burnham's) word for it that it can be grueling and difficult in ways that it maybe doesn't need to be (and that they would like to change, starting with transparency and initiating discussions) but I'm gonna do it cause they're certainly more qualified to talk about it than I am

Edit: if your biggest problems are that mainstream celebrities don't think you're valid when you're standing next to them and the algorithm doesn't push your content to as many hundreds of thousands or millions of viewers, you're gonna fall over when I tell you about food insecurity.

Now, this is just bad faith, cherry picking smaller issues and acting like he presented those as the biggest tragedies of his life.

[anna_begins]

I think it's immensely out of touch for Daniel to act like being a Youtuber in general is terrible.

I'm curious, did you ever get around to watching the second half of the video? Because his conclusion is that despite the issues he has with it, he loves the platform and loves being a youtuber, and lists all the reasons why he thinks it's great and the steps he's taking to make it so he doesn't get overwhelmed with the things he dislikes.

[...] he seemed to have zero grasp on how fortunate he is.

At 1:19:43 he says "Now I know I'm a privileged fuck and I made it as a big youtuber, so again, I'm not asking for sympathy. I don't think I need a shred of sympathy compared to anyone else's problems."

I'm sorry if this offends anyone but I really find these opinions of Daniel's extreme and I'm kind of shocked that opinion isn't shared more here

It's his lived experience though?
Hank Green said in his response to Dan's video that "the first half of it is one of the most eloquent, thoughtful, and, in my opinion, one of the most accurate takes on the history of youtube and the many bad parts of being a youtuber. It's very good I agree with everything in it."

[shan]

Am I allowed to have a headcannon that the miniseries PJ is hoping to direct (see today's video) is Dan's and we will get adorable content of them all together?

Like, 95% sure it isn't true, but...

I love this idea! PJ and Dan's content styles might not really match but I could totally see PJ and Phil collaborating on a series or bigger budget project together! I think I might need the universe to make this happen now.

I had a thought earlier today as well. Since dnp are so known for delaying information, I wonder if Dan's show does already have another production company interested in it? I was surprised when he gave us a synopsis in the video because you usually don't hear that information until it's a bit further along. At least in my non-expert experience of seeing other youtubers getting TV shows etc. Maybe it's nothing and he's still back at square one... But also, maybe not?

[Grey]

i keep wondering if they got kitchener and kingston mixed up lmao

i can make either kitchener or Montreal work, but doing both would be hard logistically unless i caught a ride on the tour bus lol. i'm assuming they are driving straight through to montreal after the kitchener show. (for those that don't know, kitchener->montreal is like a 7 hour drive (non-stop))

Hahah omg Kingston would make a lot more sense.

I still can’t believe they made a route that requires them to drive through the hell that is Toronto 401 traffic multiple times. Mistakes were made

[Megancita75]

I finally had time to watch the video yesterday. I thought I had a good idea of it from all the summaries and other reactions I’d read, but I still found it quite an overwhelming watch. I finished watching it and have been thinking about it ever since. I expected to have conflicted feelings about it, because this is the general reaction Dan provokes in me, and I was correct! So here are a random collection of thoughts about it.

The good thoughts:
The production was strong — the animation, graphics, and editing were all really well-done. Dan is a thinker and a writer; I really like listening to him and the way he presents information. He’s got good comic timing and I think he’s got good control of narrative tone and structure. I haven’t been watching YouTube from the beginning, so I very much enjoyed hearing his thoughts about early YouTube and how the introduction of the algorithm and income-earning potential changed the early feeling of pure creativity and community. i feel a great deal of empathy for the process he described of pitching and rejection; i’m sure he wasn’t naive about the success rate of projects, but it truly does seem like he stepped into this perfect storm of adverse circumstances: Covid, businesses pivots, mixed message, non-communication from YouTube, and his own stubborn loyalty to seeing his dream realized in a certain way. While this part was painful to listen to, I feel like he’s doing a real service to other people — especially creators — who watch this and will either feel validated for their own experiences or prepared for future ones. Honestly, it feels like Dan went from burning out from trying to please his audience and the algorithm to trying to please a corporation, and that sucks to have gone from one people-pleasing trauma to another.

The conflicted thoughts:
The whole premise of this video really, really challenged my own internal cultural orientation that says this sort of thing Is Not Done. What Dan is doing here is culturally taboo for me; as in, one does not speak at length about oneself, one does not indulge in excessive analysis of all the ways life has done you wrong, and one definitely does not air dirty laundry, particularly workplace dirty laundry. Like, I come from a family where there is some degree of talking about hard times, but mostly it’s Buck Up, and Shut Up! So I definitely found myself having that reaction at times to Dan’s story about his experiences with YTO. I have always had a difficult time with Dan’s self-deprecation and to all his references to being dead inside and hating himself. I keep hoping that side of him will fade with time. It does seem like a real struggle, so I suppose I appreciate the vulnerability of it even as I want to tell him he doesn’t have to continue to excoriate himself publicly for our entertainment. Along these lines, my experience of Dan is this sort of “go away, come back” vibe. You deeply crave connection but then push it away at the same time — it’s an anxious-avoidant attachment style. When I see him in my mind’s eye it’s with spikes and a sword and shield. Lay it all down sometimes, Danny boy; it will be alright. At the end of the video I left feeling a bit puzzled about his motivations. Why this and why now? It has this whole “burn it down” energy to me; like, expose the motherfuckers because I can and I want to. I don’t know if this is a criticism, more just trying to understand his thought process.

Other thoughts:

• BIG and now this video have inspired a mini-crisis about my own parasocial relationships with creators. I love other people and wondering about their lives — it’s a deeply human urge — and I’m so mad at how twisted and unhealthy and harmful some of that gets via celebrity culture. Part of me wants to yell to Dan and Phil to just run far far away from public life forever and recalibrate their nervous systems. And yet, here I sit, thinking for hours about strangers and typing up paragraphs about them!

• As others have said, the real estate timeline Dan alludes to here confuses me. I do think maybe UK property/mortgage process might be quite different from the American one, though, both in terms of the length of the process and the legal conveyances of ownership. The only way I can square what Dan said in the vid about delaying the property purchase in 2020 with what they said earlier about buying during the II era would be if the legal/financial process of ownership is something that can happen in the UK well after one starts work on a house project (almost like a rent-to-own scheme, maybe).

• I wondered at the end credits if the crew that produced this vid might also be the same crew he mentioned a few times who were developing the series pilot. I love the idea of him forming some working relationships with other folks.

• Part of me wants Phil to come out with a more personal video now — tell us about your social anxiety! how is project sphere going! do a health update! did you survive not drinking coffee? — and another part of me what’s him to produce a deeply stupid superficial video as a palate cleaner from this really intense Dan video. Also hope the next Dan content we get won’t be so Dan-focused! Please Dan, give me some aquascaping or video game thoughts.

• It also feel like this vid is even a stronger separation of the DnP brand.

• I am meh about the Dan is Not OK concept, but I would kill for the marathon series. I love a good sports-adjacent documentary-style vid. Release the footage!

Final thoughts:
If I watch the vid a second time or read a transcript, I’m sure I’ll have totally different thoughts. It really was a lot to take in; raw and vulnerable and certainly a storytelling achievement. I’m most likely going to see his touring show and I am betting very heavily on the idea that we’ll get some percentage of wholesome, hopeful Dan out of. I like Dan; he’s an interesting dude. I’m hopeful that we might get one or two more Dan vids prior to the tour to gauge what his style/tone might be. With that said, perfectionism/procrastination are a powerful enemy, so I’m just gonna look forward to my Phil videos and be pleasantly surprised by any Dan content we might get.

My biggest wish for Dan after BIG and now after this is that he find a way to break out of this painful, paralyzing isolation he’s been in, along with the "unbalance" he referenced in the video — I really understand what he means about Phil; one person is not enough, no matter how great they are — and find ways to interact with peers, smart people, creative people, kind people, funny people, people who can mentor him, inspire him, connect with him, fill up his thirsty brain, and help him find a sense of expanded belonging in the world, life balance, and self-love within himself.

[eevee]

Yeah, beause the fortunate aspects weren't the focus of this specific video. Admittedly, I would say that Dan has never been super verbose about "saying thank you" and tends to keep it a bit more along the lines of "wow, apparently all of you want to see a mediocre dude being self-deprecating" (I get it lol, I too am awkward with the spotlight and positive attention.) But I think it's really unfair to say that he seems to have zero grasp on how fortunate and lucky he is because he made a video focused on the parts that he has struggled with because I don't think that that notion of his luck has ever - generally - been missing. But maybe we just disagree already on that part.

I completely agree that Daniel has never really been vocally grateful to his audience or for his circumstances. Perhaps I'm just removed from it because he's been gone for years, but it's very disappointing to me that this video about his reflection on his youtube career was still so negative. I get that he gave some qualifiers to make it seem slightly less negative, but I did not at all get the sense that these grudges he holds have gone away. I would hope that he would grow and move on from that - something like "Yeah, it was really hard for me at the time because xyz, but of course I did some great things and accomplished a lot in life." He said he "didn't enjoy any of it" except for BBC Radio 1.

I think we also have different feelings about making a video focused on the negatives of being a youtuber. That concept in and of itself I find to be out of touch. In the insta stories from someone posted earlier in this thread, someone said something like "this was a workplace video he posted online for some reason" - except his workplace is fame and fortune, so even worse.

Firstly, external circumstances can very well be the cause of mental illness. Secondly, he never claims that all of "his issues" are caused by being a youtuber. If anything, he seems to trace most of it back to years of physical abuse to the point of (reading only slightly between the lines) fearing for his life - and to his dad and childhood homelife, summarised more or less in BIG with "issues of economic class, violence and addiction."
He knows he has a mental illness (depression.) He has never claimed it's caused by being a youtuber. He has mentioned developing an enxiety disorder from how YTO's treatment of him & the pressure of the spotlight intersected which is... totally possible

Sure, that's all possible. But the solution in my opinion isn't to complain, victimize yourself further, and refuse to see the good in your circumstances.

I'm gonna be blunt, it sounds mostly like you want him to express your own specific idea of his reality & express more humbleness/gratitude. Yeah it's nice to see people really acknowledge and express gratitude for things they have that others don't but they're allowed to discuss the things that aren't working - especially when fans have been quite vocal about wanting to know why he "isn't working" and demanding this exact explanation.
Now, I'm not a youtuber so I don't actually know what it's like to be one, and especially not with that amount of attention/eternal spotlight that Dan has. Nobody has ever given me grief for not, say, showing (cough monetizing) my creative process. Maybe it's naive of me to take a bunch of youtubers' (or Bo Burnham's) word for it that it can be grueling and difficult in ways that it maybe doesn't need to be (and that they would like to change, starting with transparency and initiating discussions) but I'm gonna do it cause they're certainly more qualified to talk about it than I am

My own specific idea of his reality? He's a famous internet celebrity with countless accomplishments. That is objective reality.

Now, this is just bad faith, cherry picking smaller issues and acting like he presented those as the biggest tragedies of his life.

In this specific video, he did present those as his biggest problems.

I'm curious, did you ever get around to watching the second half of the video? Because his conclusion is that despite the issues he has with it, he loves the platform and loves being a youtuber, and lists all the reasons why he thinks it's great and the steps he's taking to make it so he doesn't get overwhelmed with the things he dislikes.

I did not, but I definitely plan to eventually. I'm trying to cool down because that first half really made me angry. I'm glad to hear that that is his conclusion!

At 1:19:43 he says "Now I know I'm a privileged fuck and I made it as a big youtuber, so again, I'm not asking for sympathy. I don't think I need a shred of sympathy compared to anyone else's problems."

Similarly to how I feel about his after the fact qualifier of his stance on the phandom, this felt more like an after the fact "dont get mad at me" qualifier than a genuine sentiment.

It's his lived experience though?
Hank Green said in his response to Dan's video that "the first half of it is one of the most eloquent, thoughtful, and, in my opinion, one of the most accurate takes on the history of youtube and the many bad parts of being a youtuber. It's very good I agree with everything in it."

yeah, I'm not saying that he didn't live through or experience any of this. I think making a video complaining about how horrible your very privileged life is to your almost 100% not-celebrity audience is rude, honestly. Boo hoo, you're a millionaire.

Of course other youtubers are going to agree. They're not in the same position I am of being a regular working class person.

Also, no matter what youtuber says things like this, I always find it to be in poor taste. There are many mainstream celebrities who refrain from publicly complaining about their lifestyle and act grateful toward their fanbase. Not sure why youtubers can't do this.



I genuinely didn't realize that me saying all this would be so controversial. To me, it was blatantly insulting and out of touch. It's hard for me to understand how all of you are so sympathetic when Daniel came off as so ungrateful. I don't have an issue with the content of his video in general, I have an issue with his (in my opinion) failure to recognize how fortunate he is, despite all these issues. If he had approached the topic in a way that indicated that more fully, I would be less upset.

Not only that, he complained about our behavior in the peak of his celebrity. I realize a lot of you feel he redeemed himself with his "but people want to have fun!" statement, but I would personally have hoped that in all this reflection, he could have grown more and said more things that had a genuinely grateful sentiment. I personally have spent hundreds of dollars on Daniel between merch, tour tickets, vidcon tickets and flights, etc - never mind the hours and hours of his content I've watched to fund his ad revenue. And this is the thanks I get? Even years later, when you're trying to tell me you've grown and gone to therapy? Insulting. People like me are a huge reason why Daniel's life has been so privileged, but he thinks we're a destructive internet army trying to out him for "lols." And he expects me to buy MORE tour tickets after that?

This is why I'm so upset. If you want your audience to continue to fund your lifestyle, you should at least keep your negativity about them behind closed doors.

[alittledizzy]

This is why I'm so upset. If you want your audience to continue to fund your lifestyle, you should at least keep your negativity about them behind closed doors.

I think part of it might be just that you want different things from Dan than a lot of us did, and you also see him as having completely disappeared when I don't think most of us do. Dan has not posted a regular youtube video since 2018, but we have gotten videos with Phil, we had months of Dan podcast/Stereos, we had dozens of podcasts about the book last year that he was on, we had those specials he talks about doing for Youtube (Gay and Not Proud, the DAVOS speech), we had the John Green interview... so what I think most of us wanted was honesty from Dan about where he was and what he was going to do in the future.

And I think for most of us (obviously not all, fandom is not a hive mind, but at least a majority of opinions I've encountered) we weren't angry with Dan. We were sad and confused and frustrated, but ultimately still liked him and wanted to root for him. So I think for people with that mindset, this video satisfied that desire to be let in on what the hold up was, to get an honest truth from him. Telling the entire story of his evolution on youtube, in line with the evolution of the site itself, was that honest answer, warts and all.

[kavat]

As people we love stories, and we love redemption arches and stories with a happy ending. From we are kids we are met with stories of protagonist - faces hardships - triumphs over them - learns a lesson - rewarded for their strength - happy ending. And we often want to see those stories reflected in real life as well. But real life isn't linear, things happen backwards, they don't get the rewards, they don't learn their lessons or they don't publicly acknowledge all the steps. That's real life.

Anyway I hope he knows that the creator of Heartstopper is a fan

[Catallena]

Instagram Story Fairy is back

and will fight Dan for hating on the color pink.

[queerofcups]

Well! I'm thrilled Dan is back and hope the people that fucked him, and probably countless others, over at YTO feel bad about it. The reaction here and around the internet has been really interesting to watch in terms of people's understanding of work, obligation, privilege and parasocial relationships (both negative and positive) for sure.

That said, I'm really wondering what the return means in terms of his actual content on YouTube. Like, the times when both Dan and Phil were on tour were sort of funky in terms of videos we got (even if they were subsidized by instastories etc) and while I don't mind the tour (I'm planning to buy a ticket), it feels a little confusing to say that Dan that he's back! on! YouTube! as lead up to announcing months of work that's very much not on YouTube lol. Particularly in conjunction with his commitment to working with a team now. I kind of wonder if it means we can now expect TtLMT, BIG and now WIQYT to be the new norm for Dan -- long periods of silence punctuated with longer form videos with much higher production quality.

I personally don't mind that (espescially if he moves beyond these sort of introspective videos that feel like they're trying to tell us everything and hold us at armslength at the same time), and think it might really benefit Dan in the end if he's looking to transition his audience to like...people who grew up watching him and are excited to be able to continue watching him but want something a little bit more polished (maybe even more mature?). If that's the case, I think we'll see a shrinking of the more casual audience, people who are still waiting for the return of danisnotonfire style videos, but maybe also a deepening of appreciation from the people who stick around. Or maybe he won't post another video until its time to promo the tour and that'll be a whole other really interesting reaction to watch.

[Grey]

I would personally have hoped that in all this reflection, he could have grown more and said more things that had a genuinely grateful sentiment. I personally have spent hundreds of dollars on Daniel between merch, tour tickets, vidcon tickets and flights, etc - never mind the hours and hours of his content I've watched to fund his ad revenue. And this is the thanks I get? Even years later, when you're trying to tell me you've grown and gone to therapy? Insulting. People like me are a huge reason why Daniel's life has been so privileged, but he thinks we're a destructive internet army trying to out him for "lols." And he expects me to buy MORE tour tickets after that?

This is why I'm so upset. If you want your audience to continue to fund your lifestyle, you should at least keep your negativity about them behind closed doors.

It’s interesting because one thing that I’ve felt has been lacking for a while is some degree of honesty or transparency I guess. So I liked the video BECAUSE it felt honest. I don’t enjoy watching someone who is secretly seething with rage and resentment. I would prefer to hear the negativity said out loud, especially in this case where the takeaway ends up actually being quite positive - but in a way that felt genuine to me (whether it was or not obviously I don’t know for sure).

The takeaway I got from the video (based on the whole thing in its entirety) is two things are true: the internet has at times been a stressful place for Dan AND he is grateful that it’s his career. That seems reasonable to me. I’m not trying to convince you to agree. But I will say, I don’t think I would have taken the same message away from the video if I hadn’t watched the whole thing.

To me, him going on tour IS doing something for me. Of course I know he hopes to profit financially from it but I don’t mind that because I have enjoyed his previous tours and I think I will enjoy another one so I’m excited. It also means he’s putting effort into making content that he thinks is good, which to me indicates a level of respect to his audience. Realistically, there are way lower effort ways that he could make money as a YouTuber than doing a tour. I’m pretty sure there’s a reason that few YouTubers have done tours like Dan and Phil… and I’m pretty sure that reason is because it’s a pain in the ass to pull off. If he just wanted to make money and exploit his stupid audience who he hates, i don’t think this is the pattern of behavior we’d have from him.

Sometimes his behavior in the past 2 years felt cold towards his audience to me. I felt sad and hurt. This video didn’t to me, because it explained the situation and had a positive outlook for the future.

I don’t buy things from him to be appreciated for funding his lifestyle. I buy things I like from him because I want them. Therefore, I don’t really feel like he owes me anything. I’ve always received what I paid for. Personally I’ve never bought his clothing merch or meet and greets because I don’t want those things and therefore they are not worth the price to me. Some people do though and that’s okay.

[anna_begins]

As people we love stories, and we love redemption arches and stories with a happy ending. From we are kids we are met with stories of protagonist - faces hardships - triumphs over them - learns a lesson - rewarded for their strength - happy ending. And we often want to see those stories reflected in real life as well. But real life isn't linear, things happen backwards, they don't get the rewards, they don't learn their lessons or they don't publicly acknowledge all the steps. That's real life.

Anyway I hope he knows that the creator of Heartstopper is a fan

Aww Alice liked his tweet. They also answered an ask about it on tumblr.

[Morganaa]

Yeah, beause the fortunate aspects weren't the focus of this specific video. Admittedly, I would say that Dan has never been super verbose about "saying thank you" and tends to keep it a bit more along the lines of "wow, apparently all of you want to see a mediocre dude being self-deprecating" (I get it lol, I too am awkward with the spotlight and positive attention.) But I think it's really unfair to say that he seems to have zero grasp on how fortunate and lucky he is because he made a video focused on the parts that he has struggled with because I don't think that that notion of his luck has ever - generally - been missing. But maybe we just disagree already on that part.

I completely agree that Daniel has never really been vocally grateful to his audience or for his circumstances. Perhaps I'm just removed from it because he's been gone for years, but it's very disappointing to me that this video about his reflection on his youtube career was still so negative. I get that he gave some qualifiers to make it seem slightly less negative, but I did not at all get the sense that these grudges he holds have gone away. I would hope that he would grow and move on from that - something like "Yeah, it was really hard for me at the time because xyz, but of course I did some great things and accomplished a lot in life." He said he "didn't enjoy any of it" except for BBC Radio 1.

I think we also have different feelings about making a video focused on the negatives of being a youtuber. That concept in and of itself I find to be out of touch. In the insta stories from someone posted earlier in this thread, someone said something like "this was a workplace video he posted online for some reason" - except his workplace is fame and fortune, so even worse.

Firstly, external circumstances can very well be the cause of mental illness. Secondly, he never claims that all of "his issues" are caused by being a youtuber. If anything, he seems to trace most of it back to years of physical abuse to the point of (reading only slightly between the lines) fearing for his life - and to his dad and childhood homelife, summarised more or less in BIG with "issues of economic class, violence and addiction."
He knows he has a mental illness (depression.) He has never claimed it's caused by being a youtuber. He has mentioned developing an enxiety disorder from how YTO's treatment of him & the pressure of the spotlight intersected which is... totally possible

Sure, that's all possible. But the solution in my opinion isn't to complain, victimize yourself further, and refuse to see the good in your circumstances.

I'm gonna be blunt, it sounds mostly like you want him to express your own specific idea of his reality & express more humbleness/gratitude. Yeah it's nice to see people really acknowledge and express gratitude for things they have that others don't but they're allowed to discuss the things that aren't working - especially when fans have been quite vocal about wanting to know why he "isn't working" and demanding this exact explanation.
Now, I'm not a youtuber so I don't actually know what it's like to be one, and especially not with that amount of attention/eternal spotlight that Dan has. Nobody has ever given me grief for not, say, showing (cough monetizing) my creative process. Maybe it's naive of me to take a bunch of youtubers' (or Bo Burnham's) word for it that it can be grueling and difficult in ways that it maybe doesn't need to be (and that they would like to change, starting with transparency and initiating discussions) but I'm gonna do it cause they're certainly more qualified to talk about it than I am

My own specific idea of his reality? He's a famous internet celebrity with countless accomplishments. That is objective reality.

Now, this is just bad faith, cherry picking smaller issues and acting like he presented those as the biggest tragedies of his life.

In this specific video, he did present those as his biggest problems.

I'm curious, did you ever get around to watching the second half of the video? Because his conclusion is that despite the issues he has with it, he loves the platform and loves being a youtuber, and lists all the reasons why he thinks it's great and the steps he's taking to make it so he doesn't get overwhelmed with the things he dislikes.

I did not, but I definitely plan to eventually. I'm trying to cool down because that first half really made me angry. I'm glad to hear that that is his conclusion!

At 1:19:43 he says "Now I know I'm a privileged fuck and I made it as a big youtuber, so again, I'm not asking for sympathy. I don't think I need a shred of sympathy compared to anyone else's problems."

Similarly to how I feel about his after the fact qualifier of his stance on the phandom, this felt more like an after the fact "dont get mad at me" qualifier than a genuine sentiment.

It's his lived experience though?
Hank Green said in his response to Dan's video that "the first half of it is one of the most eloquent, thoughtful, and, in my opinion, one of the most accurate takes on the history of youtube and the many bad parts of being a youtuber. It's very good I agree with everything in it."

yeah, I'm not saying that he didn't live through or experience any of this. I think making a video complaining about how horrible your very privileged life is to your almost 100% not-celebrity audience is rude, honestly. Boo hoo, you're a millionaire.

Of course other youtubers are going to agree. They're not in the same position I am of being a regular working class person.

Also, no matter what youtuber says things like this, I always find it to be in poor taste. There are many mainstream celebrities who refrain from publicly complaining about their lifestyle and act grateful toward their fanbase. Not sure why youtubers can't do this.



I genuinely didn't realize that me saying all this would be so controversial. To me, it was blatantly insulting and out of touch. It's hard for me to understand how all of you are so sympathetic when Daniel came off as so ungrateful. I don't have an issue with the content of his video in general, I have an issue with his (in my opinion) failure to recognize how fortunate he is, despite all these issues. If he had approached the topic in a way that indicated that more fully, I would be less upset.

Not only that, he complained about our behavior in the peak of his celebrity. I realize a lot of you feel he redeemed himself with his "but people want to have fun!" statement, but I would personally have hoped that in all this reflection, he could have grown more and said more things that had a genuinely grateful sentiment. I personally have spent hundreds of dollars on Daniel between merch, tour tickets, vidcon tickets and flights, etc - never mind the hours and hours of his content I've watched to fund his ad revenue. And this is the thanks I get? Even years later, when you're trying to tell me you've grown and gone to therapy? Insulting. People like me are a huge reason why Daniel's life has been so privileged, but he thinks we're a destructive internet army trying to out him for "lols." And he expects me to buy MORE tour tickets after that?

This is why I'm so upset. If you want your audience to continue to fund your lifestyle, you should at least keep your negativity about them behind closed doors.

welcome to my club my friend! have an opinion different that "oooohh, he's depressed, what a poor lil thing", and deal with the controversy.
while I don't agree he's a "famous A list celebrity and multimillionaire(because I already said that "fame" and "popularity" are a difference to me. and no YouTubers and no influencers fall into the category of "famous". popular, yes, but not famous. I also chuckle when people think he got sooo much $$$ he's drowning in them - sorry to burst your bubble, but I've seen this world from an inside. the majority ain't as rich as they want everyone to believe they are.
I'm thoroughly surprised that people believe in EVRY SINGLE WORD from them, after bein deceived and lied lied to for more than a decade, just because they feel he's honest, because he acts like he is. but, what do I know, we're both just a controversial internet troll, cause I ain't interested in his "humor" that I've always found extremely annoyin and cringy, but was balanced out a little with their joint videos, that's why I came to this forum, after casually watchin some old videos. but when he's alone, it becomes... well.... thrice as annoyin. especially now, when he has to remind everyone he's gay every few minutes whenever he makes a video or tweets, because he's struggled with internal homophobia, so now gotta make up for it.
I already said that - when I've been thoroughly depressed, suicidal and deep into addiction, no one gave a shit because "I've always been spoiled, had what I wanted and had opportunities others could dream of, like goin for a student exchange for example and havin a car everyone was staring at". nobody even though of tryin to help me, just made rude comments, and yet here everyone he's sympathetic, because he had depression which he resolved with a therapist, and didnt like some aspects of his job - even though he's treated his audience like shit.

please, don't reply to this, anyone. I'm done with bein called out because my opinion don't match with everyone elses. you should probably give yourself a break too, to be frank. it's just gonna make you feel more down, because everyone will see you as "troll". no need to spent energy(and in my case, mental health) on that. I just repeated my opinion. if somebody else can repeat over and over again that they're gay and make a huge deal outta of that like it was their biggest accomplish in life, then I also feel I can say the same thing for a fourth time. I just don't want posts putting me down because no one's gonna ever agrees.
this is a real controversy, not any youTubers' shit(not talkin about him, but in general, when somebody calls themselves "controversial" cause they can say a word fuck. yeah, right, controversial as shit...)

[phancon]

i was just watching "something we want to tell you!" from january last year and it's so interesting and very sad now listening to dan briefly mention the projects he wants to talk about but can't - he even says he's trying to pitch something to youtube right now and that that's basically the reason he's on a billboard as one of youtube's featured creators. he's saying things like "persevere!" and "follow your dreams!" and it's just so... sad, knowing how that'll go for him in 2021.

they also bring up the things phil's pitched and been rejected for and mention "a gameshow" and now i'm wondering if it's the truthbombs game show dan mentioned or something else entirely. phil also talks about an "interactive concept" he pitched, which sounds like the bandersnatch-like/yt anotations interactive thing dan brought up too. mourning deeply for these lost projects tbh.

[alittledizzy]

i was just watching "something we want to tell you!" from january last year and it's so interesting and very sad now listening to dan briefly mention the projects he wants to talk about but can't - he even says he's trying to pitch something to youtube right now and that that's basically the reason he's on a billboard as one of youtube's featured creators. he's saying things like "persevere!" and "follow your dreams!" and it's just so... sad, knowing how that'll go for him in 2021.

they also bring up the things phil's pitched and been rejected for and mention "a gameshow" and now i'm wondering if it's the truthbombs game show dan mentioned or something else entirely. phil also talks about an "interactive concept" he pitched, which sounds like the bandersnatch-like/yt anotations interactive thing dan brought up too. mourning deeply for these lost projects tbh.

I would love to know if those were Phil-fronted projects that Dan was also going to be involved in, and Phil decided he didn't want to put his energy into them after the rejections, or if those really were going to be Dan and Phil projects and for some reason Dan didn't want to be associated with them?

I really am eager to hear from Phil now. Not specifically about the video but I do think he has the other half of the story here, and his perspective would be interesting.

[BlueSnoko]

It's good that Dan had a parent and a grandparent that accepted him, but he has been very explicit about the fact that his father made him feel like he didn't have a safe place to come out as a teenager.

Popping into say that while a certain family member may be supportive on some level, constantly hearing microaggressions from them can be very stressful emotionally. I have a family member who said they supported me in dating anyone I choose, they didn't care about my sexuality, but if a character on tv was bisexual they would make disgusted noises and say things like "Why did they have to make things weird and have a bisexual character. Let me tell you the opinion I hear louder was not the one said to my face. Also, Dizzy correct me if you've seen evidence to the contrary, but it seems Dan's dad is a lot more supportive nowadays.

Depression is a hard thing to deal with, I've been dealing with it. I can imagine a lot of ways in which Dan would have felt bad. All your projects failing when your partner is sick - I would feel like a failure for not being successful so that they didn't have to worry and could just focus on their health. I would feel terrible, and ashamed having fought for something so long, and trusted on people to meet their end of a bargain, only to get epically let down, all while having people all over the internet wonder why I'm not doing anything with my life. And I can imagine how hard it must have been being unable to pull yourself out of depression when you literally wrote a book on how to do it. Dan's truly had a rough year. And don't mistake anything I've written as my saying he actually is a failure - he's dealt with so much hardship this year , and honestly being a person at the end of that is a feat . He went beyond that and was able to speak about it intelligently and compassionately to a giant public audience. But I empathize on struggling with depression. I've experienced similar things in a way this year - guilt that I needed financial support from my family, guilt about not being able to sort my life. Torn between not ignoring people and being unable to interact in anyway that's not depressing + stressful. Depression is hard. And self compassion is harder. It's also possibly the most important thing one can do, be compassionate to yourself. I'm glad it looks like Dan is trying to do that. I hope everyone struggling can find their way to doing that.

Whoever came up with "Crisis Twinks" chose a better thread name than they could have possibly imagined. Did Dan miss a golden opportunity not dying his hair this year? Should he dye it now?
-

[BlueSnoko]

his constant insistence that a life of internet fame and wealth is horrible really made me lose respect for him. Absolutely insulting. Was his "youtuber is a slur" thing a joke? Because he really seemed serious.

He wasn't saying being a YouTuber is a bad thing - he was saying that no matter how valid your work or art as a YouTuber is, your profession does not get viewed with respect. Even if you spend hours writing creative thought provoking scripts, people treat you like a discount Paris Hilton. He isn't dissing being a YouTuber. He is dissing the wider public's opinion of being a YouTuber.

[phancon]

i was just watching "something we want to tell you!" from january last year and it's so interesting and very sad now listening to dan briefly mention the projects he wants to talk about but can't - he even says he's trying to pitch something to youtube right now and that that's basically the reason he's on a billboard as one of youtube's featured creators. he's saying things like "persevere!" and "follow your dreams!" and it's just so... sad, knowing how that'll go for him in 2021.

they also bring up the things phil's pitched and been rejected for and mention "a gameshow" and now i'm wondering if it's the truthbombs game show dan mentioned or something else entirely. phil also talks about an "interactive concept" he pitched, which sounds like the bandersnatch-like/yt anotations interactive thing dan brought up too. mourning deeply for these lost projects tbh.

I would love to know if those were Phil-fronted projects that Dan was also going to be involved in, and Phil decided he didn't want to put his energy into them after the rejections, or if those really were going to be Dan and Phil projects and for some reason Dan didn't want to be associated with them?

I really am eager to hear from Phil now. Not specifically about the video but I do think he has the other half of the story here, and his perspective would be interesting.

dan talked about the gameshow and interactive thing as though they were things being pitched to youtube red while they were still deep in the "dan and phil" branded era, 2016 to 2018ish, so i wonder if phil took the concepts afterward and tried to market them again solo (and failed because streaming platforms are clueless about what will sell for some reason)

i don't think phill would ever be as thorough as dan in his explanations, but i too would love a similar breakdown on what he's pitched and where. draw my life 3 perhaps?

[starsandshards]

his constant insistence that a life of internet fame and wealth is horrible really made me lose respect for him. Absolutely insulting. Was his "youtuber is a slur" thing a joke? Because he really seemed serious.

He wasn't saying being a YouTuber is a bad thing - he was saying that no matter how valid your work or art as a YouTuber is, your profession does not get viewed with respect. Even if you spend hours writing creative thought provoking scripts, people treat you like a discount Paris Hilton. He isn't dissing being a YouTuber. He is dissing the wider public's opinion of being a YouTuber.

Tenuously related, but Paris Hilton is actually great.

[Morganaa]

WARNING: ANOTHER CONTROVERSIAL
SHIT COMIN' RIGHT AT YOU!!!!!

I can't stop laughin when people call YouTube creators "famous, notable, VIPS, millionaires( even billionaires xd), or even celebrities".
famous for what? makin idiots outta themselves on the internet by doin condom challenges or forcing themselves to make unfunny jokes(I'm talkin about ytbers in general - about 98‰ of the popular ones make COMPLETELY unvaluable content and then call themselves "entertainers" and "comedians"...
they are not famous. financial stable, but a lot less rich and wealthy than people think. and somebody said that YouTubers get treated like "a discounted Paris Hilton" - where? because all I see is people here beamin about oh how much of a big, super privileged(well, privileged is practically anyone who works a more profitable job, or was born to a wealthier family, or by bein very good at something, had opportunities that most don't) stars they are.
but in reality, this is exactly what they are - a dollar store Paris Hilton. just people popular thorough their audience. nothin else.

Again, I just wanted it to be here: please do not reply - I already know no one agrees, and if somebody does, they're gonna get eaten up by a mass with no experience, but believes in every word they see on a low-profile media articles(that are worth as much as a made up stories, in many cases, but people grew up with them shaping their opinions and the way of seeing the world) and believe EVERY. SINGLE. WORD. that comes outta the mouths of their favorite stars/celebrities/or, like in this case, internet people. it's like the mass thinks somebody could just go up there and straight up say ”oh, well, i ain't give a fuck about any of you, everythin I do, I do for a livin', not to help anyone or make them happy . I fucked up countless times, and I gotta say it's all the bad companies that screwed me, but I ain't gonna admit it obviously, imma make up a sad story so you gonna feel bad for me and stroke my ego with all the sugary-sweety posts. I quit all communication coz I don't give a fuck, now I'm "back" coz I get my "tour" bein able to happen, so all I want is you to sponsor me and give me your money".
I'm kinda like "seriously"?
but, like I said, I'm the dumb one with controversial opinions. that's why I ask you not to reply - it's a forum, sure, but there's no sense to do this. I've seen too much already, you won't be able to get me to agree with you. not that Im so stubborn and never gonna change my mind, no - I will, but like I said, in this department i've already seen a lot.
plus, I'm actually not a fan of him, nor anyone(well, except of Eminem, and a few other people who are in the league A LOT higher up the scale than just some people doin videos on yt) - like I already said before and gonna repeat, I'm a casual viewer who got here mildly attracted by their joint dynamic.

again, this is MY point of view and nobody else's, literally(especially in a place full of big fans, who will always find a way to justify their social media person's every action.) nobody is a failure, nobody in the world - but everybody fails and everybody fucks up, sometimes less, sometimes more... and I don't think bein somebody's attorney, tryin to validate every single one of those fuck ups is a healthy position to be in, but obviously what I think is always wrong.

done. over and out.

[starsandshards]

Posting in a public(ish) forum and then saying no one is allowed to reply is nagl.

Edited to clarify my point: a forum is a discussion board for conversation, not for changing anyone's opinions. We all share our own opinions and it's fine, if people disagree that's just how humanity is.

[LtrllySusan]

If Dan become a Heartstopper reaction channel, I'd be fine with that.

[nicky1388]

why are people on a forum dedicated specifically to people if they dislike them so much? I have never understood the logic behind that choice.

Also, did i just overdraw my bank account to secure a Dan meet and greet? Yes, yes i did. But i identify with him so strongly in some aspects that i just really need the chance to say thank you to him for giving me a space where i feel seen and unalone.

If anyone is going to Tysons, I will see you there on my dead grandfather's birthday.

[Catallena]

Anyway.

WHO GOT TICKETS?

I'm going to the Amsterdam show (obviously) on February 25th which I now realize is still like aaaaaaaaages away. I was gonna try to hop over to London in September, but I can't justify the cost of travel on such a relatively short notice.