Dan and Phil Part 103: we're all doomed!

[Grey]

I loved this video!

One thing I am struggling with is: are they still lying to their social circle?
How can you hide a relationship while living in the real world?

And if they're not hiding (because it's impossible, unless they straight forward lie), then... someone is going to out them.

Unless they live a very reclusive life, or very separated from a youtube/influencer circle.

I’m sure their social circle knows things we don’t. But I also feel like we know quite a lot? Like we know they were at one point “more than friends” (per dans BIG video), we know they’ve spent an enormous amount of time working and living together for over a decade, we know they just recently bought and designed a super expensive house together, and I think we can pretty safely assume they care about each other*. I could totally see there being people in their social circle who basically just know that same stuff as us. I imagine there are people who know more about their relationship too but I’d also imagine those are highly trusted people. Also I think their relationship has been outed before for the internet (ages ago) in probably an upsetting way and that experience may be why this is something they are not letting go of now.

I guess I can believe it too because personally I’m not in the public eye at all but there are people in my social circle who don’t know a damn thing about my love life. There is no deep reason for that. I’m a private person and I just don’t tell everyone everything.

*now if all of those truths I just listed are actually lies, THAT is something I think somebody would have spilled the tea on by now.

[nicky1388]

i honestly also think they don't have a very big circle of youtuber/influencer friends. aside from maybe PJ.

[Levitating]

I can understand that, but the more famous - again - they become with the tour and videos, the easier will be for a casual viewer to recognise them in real life (I imagine booking the same room in a hotel, unless they keep losing money to keep the 2-rooms story even when privately enjoying a holiday)

Or (most likely) for a casual acquaintance to become aware of their Youtube fame. And it'd be extremely socially awkward (as awkward as lying) to also point out 'yes, but do no tell anyone'.

It's such a schematic way of living that I am not sure how much they can keep it up.

Unless they're not famous enough? Joana Ceddia has logged off the internet and no one has been able to spot her (and yet, she did not have a fandom as talkative as the phandom is)

[alienfreakbingo]

I can understand that, but the more famous - again - they become with the tour and videos, the easier will be for a casual viewer to recognise them in real life (I imagine booking the same room in a hotel, unless they keep losing money to keep the 2-rooms story even when privately enjoying a holiday)

Or (most likely) for a casual acquaintance to become aware of their Youtube fame. And it'd be extremely socially awkward (as awkward as lying) to also point out 'yes, but do no tell anyone'.

It's such a schematic way of living that I am not sure how much they can keep it up.

Unless they're not famous enough? Joana Ceddia has logged off the internet and no one has been able to spot her (and yet, she did not have a fandom as talkative as the phandom is)

I think, ultimately, we'll never know and it's not our business how they conduct their business. I just think of my own experience with family, for example. Some older family members helped raise me, we were all incredibly close - practically like best friends as well as flesh n blood! As I got older and I came out to my parents, we all decided it was best not to come out to those older relatives. I had multiple relationships without them knowing, despite how close we were. It's not the same as being ~famous however it is, I assume, also similar. Celebrities keep aspects of their private life private all the time, through PR managers, NDAs etc and they are way more widely recognised than D&P. PR and publicly known 'storylines' are heavily curated! Phil was out before he really rose to Youtube fame as we know it today and the people in his life he trusted have obviously remained trustworthy. The same way irl some family members can be trusted with knowledge of sexuality and some can't, some friends get told and they also get told that X family member doesn't know so please keep it on the DL in their presence.

[greenergrass]

I can understand that, but the more famous - again - they become with the tour and videos, the easier will be for a casual viewer to recognise them in real life (I imagine booking the same room in a hotel, unless they keep losing money to keep the 2-rooms story even when privately enjoying a holiday)

Or (most likely) for a casual acquaintance to become aware of their Youtube fame. And it'd be extremely socially awkward (as awkward as lying) to also point out 'yes, but do no tell anyone'.

It's such a schematic way of living that I am not sure how much they can keep it up.

Unless they're not famous enough? Joana Ceddia has logged off the internet and no one has been able to spot her (and yet, she did not have a fandom as talkative as the phandom is)

I mean I get what you're saying but I just really don't think anything would truly "out" them as a couple unless they said it themselves now. Phil was out to his friends and such throughout university and he still managed to remain publicly closeted for many years on the internet. I don't remember any of those university people ever saying anything but I could be wrong. Dan was also out as bi in school and I can't remember anything really getting much traction about that. Like obviously people saw his myspace, I think I remember one guy from school casually outing him on twitter years ago (?), etc but it never "proved" anything in a lot of people's minds.

I think my point is, there's been a million instances over the years that could have outed them (vday video, formspring answers, people in their real lives knowing about their relationship/sexuality, the list goes on and on) and at this point I think they've (rightfully) created a solid bubble around their relationship in which everybody "knows" to an extent but at the end of the day there's not much that could fully 100% out them as a couple to the general public unless they themselves said it. They can pretty much always keep that plausible deniability if they want to.

[Grey]

I can understand that, but the more famous - again - they become with the tour and videos, the easier will be for a casual viewer to recognise them in real life (I imagine booking the same room in a hotel, unless they keep losing money to keep the 2-rooms story even when privately enjoying a holiday)

Or (most likely) for a casual acquaintance to become aware of their Youtube fame. And it'd be extremely socially awkward (as awkward as lying) to also point out 'yes, but do no tell anyone'.

It's such a schematic way of living that I am not sure how much they can keep it up.

Unless they're not famous enough? Joana Ceddia has logged off the internet and no one has been able to spot her (and yet, she did not have a fandom as talkative as the phandom is)

Well we already know they live together. If they live together, which they’ve told us they do, why would they need to pretend they can’t share a hotel room? In fact, they HAVE shown us a presumably shared hotel room before, on several occasions I can think of.

I do recall some drama back in the day - I think it was during Tatinof - where they said the hotel gave them rooms on different floors. People were freaking out about how weird it was that they would book 2 different rooms. It was theorized that this could be because someone else was booking the hotels and they didn’t want to admit to that person about them sharing a room. Considering this was 2016-17, that seems more likely to me back then than it would be now. Even at the time though, I felt like maybe they legitimately wanted space from each other too since they had been on tour together for months and months. Maybe they actually wanted 2 rooms. Or maybe they didn’t but things are very different for them now than they were in 2016-17. I feel like they’ve moved past that kind of panic over this.

I guess what I’m trying to say is I don’t think their options are either LIE or TELL OTHER PEOPLE TO LIE. There’s other stuff in between, especially considering all that we do know about them (such as that they live together). Eg, here they are in a hotel room with only 1 bed visible and they’re not over-explaining it or anything- it just is what it is. And this was 4 years ago (omg how was this 4 years ago )

https://youtube.com/watch?v=CS3PbPhpu0w

[alittledizzy]

The vegan leather jacket Dan mentioned looks pretty awesome. I don't live in a climate where it's worth it for me to pay that much for any kind of jacket, but for the item the price also seems pretty fair.

Also for anyone wondering how the q&a is done...

I'm going to the q&a at the London show in a couple weeks and haven't settled on a question to ask yet, so if anyone has any good ones throw them at me.

[Grey]

Also for anyone wondering how the q&a is done...

I'm going to the q&a at the London show in a couple weeks and haven't settled on a question to ask yet, so if anyone has any good ones throw them at me.

Ooh that’s an old school way to do it haha! I’ve never been to a meet and greet so this might be a dumb question. Is this a small enough group that he could feasibly answer one question from everyone (assuming they’re reasonable questions)?

Hope you have a great time! Going to a London show sounds pretty awesome.

(Also sorry I’m commenting on here so much, I just have the day off and I guess I’m feeling chatty )

[alienfreakbingo]

The vegan leather jacket Dan mentioned looks pretty awesome. I don't live in a climate where it's worth it for me to pay that much for any kind of jacket, but for the item the price also seems pretty fair.

Also for anyone wondering how the q&a is done...

I'm going to the q&a at the London show in a couple weeks and haven't settled on a question to ask yet, so if anyone has any good ones throw them at me.

Love the Q&A idea. Reminds me of how Rose and Rosie did it when they did their live show and it was very effective. I think a nice question might be: What small things in life bring you joy, day to day?

[gnostic]

I can understand that, but the more famous - again - they become with the tour and videos, the easier will be for a casual viewer to recognise them in real life (I imagine booking the same room in a hotel, unless they keep losing money to keep the 2-rooms story even when privately enjoying a holiday)

Or (most likely) for a casual acquaintance to become aware of their Youtube fame. And it'd be extremely socially awkward (as awkward as lying) to also point out 'yes, but do no tell anyone'.

It's such a schematic way of living that I am not sure how much they can keep it up.

Unless they're not famous enough? Joana Ceddia has logged off the internet and no one has been able to spot her (and yet, she did not have a fandom as talkative as the phandom is)

This is always such a hilarious point for me (sorry, not intended to be shady towards you specifically). Actual A-list celebrities managed to hide being queer / their queer partner for decades, Danny boy and Philly L can evade an outright confirmation just fine

(although for what it's worth, at the time where i struggled with a lot of internal issues, I sighed and accepted Dan and Phil as a [likely, presumptive] couple when someone leaked their vacation airbnb)

[fruitcriminals]

This is always such a hilarious point for me (sorry, not intended to be shady towards you specifically). Actual A-list celebrities managed to hide being queer / their queer partner for decades, Danny boy and Philly L can evade an outright confirmation just fine

(although for what it's worth, at the time where i struggled with a lot of internal issues, I sighed and accepted Dan and Phil as a [likely, presumptive] couple when someone leaked their vacation airbnb)

This really made me lol because my mum was absolutely gobsmacked when George Michael became publicly known as gay, she had absolutely zero clue at all even me as a child was like...erm what mum??

[flarequake]

I love that sign ‘we’ll know cos your handwriting, is2g’

£100 is less than I expected for the jacket, I guessed £120 and that they’d go maximum £150 cos no one’ll buy it otherwise. I love the cassette tape, especially since his merch team recorded it, that’s just so cool.

[interruptfireworks]

i heard that those videos dan asked to be submitted that were supposed to make him happier were used at the end of his show and i don't know how to feel about that? dan's video asking for these videos was quite unprofessional (not meaning that in the bad sense, but as in he wasn't made up with professional lighting and quality like a usual youtube video, plus his voice sounded quite sad) and lots of people really were worried for him, i even saw old fans find out about the video and tweet their own worries.

it's totally possible, and likely, he did need those videos for emotional support or what not but i feel like these people should've been informed that their videos would then be used for his show in the end as being lost in a sea of comments and maybe being seen by your fav youtuber is different to having it be shown to thousands on a worldwide tour and if for some reason he didn't need these clips for emotional support and wasn't going through a mental health crisis but rather twisted it so that they'd be used for his show, then framing it that way is emotionally manipulative at worst and doesn't leave a good taste in my mouth. he could've said "hey guys, i want you to send in clips of your happiest moments so we can all be reminded to appreciate the little things in our lives and i'll pick some to play during my show" or something to that effect and it would've been totally fine so maybe he changed his mind later to add them to the show after he received the videos (which still doesn't really justify not contacting the original senders) but i kind of don't think that was the case as there was a jump cut edited in, but then again dan is quite the perfectionist so maybe he really would've edited that in for something that essentially comes across as a cry for help. i don't know, my mind is scrambled AHHHHHHH.

i don't know if i'm overthinking it but uhh... yeah.

[shan]

I think there’s still a chance it was genuine and, I’ll be honest, I’m really holding on to that theory because I will lose a lot of respect for him if that video was an acted bit just to get content for the tour. As an ambassador for a mental health charity and the guy who literally wrote a book on the subject, I’d be pretty horrified if he put that on and used the kind of language he did, knowing how alarming and potentially triggering that could be to a decent chunk of his audience. I know it really upset me and reminded me of times I was in a similar headspace. I think there’s a possibility he genuinely was in a bad place and had this idea for the end of the show, but hard agree that regardless it feels kind of uncomfy that the videos are being used for the tour when Dan's video said it was going to be for personal use. I heard it was an emotional moment in the show for Dan which also leans me towards thinking the original video was genuine, but still not the context people thought they were submitting videos for.

There were lots of very personal moments posted under the tweet and it really doesn’t look like permission was asked to include them in the montage. I’ve seen at least one person on twitter told by an audience member that their video was included and it was a surprise to them. They seemed happy about it but I don’t know that everybody would be.

I don’t mean to detract from anyone’s excitement about the first show, I’ve absolutely loved seeing everyone’s photos and stories, but the saga of this tweet just makes me feel weird.

[Levitating]

I guess what I’m trying to say is I don’t think their options are either LIE or TELL OTHER PEOPLE TO LIE. There’s other stuff in between, especially considering all that we do know about them (such as that they live together). Eg, here they are in a hotel room with only 1 bed visible and they’re not over-explaining it or anything- it just is what it is. And this was 4 years ago (omg how was this 4 years ago )

https://youtube.com/watch?v=CS3PbPhpu0w

Thank you for sharing this video! I ended up re-watching it and it was hilarious
Although, did they say somewhere that they were simply filming in one of their rooms?

This is always such a hilarious point for me (sorry, not intended to be shady towards you specifically). Actual A-list celebrities managed to hide being queer / their queer partner for decades, Danny boy and Philly L can evade an outright confirmation just fine

(although for what it's worth, at the time where i struggled with a lot of internal issues, I sighed and accepted Dan and Phil as a [likely, presumptive] couple when someone leaked their vacation airbnb)

No shade at all!! What I love about this place is that actually conversation can happen without becoming personal

This really made me lol because my mum was absolutely gobsmacked when George Michael became publicly known as gay, she had absolutely zero clue at all even me as a child was like...erm what mum??

But yeah!


The main difference I see between these and DnP is... exactly this forum - and Tumblr, and Twitter, platforms where fans get so invested in them that there are accounts analysing their clothes to get the price; places where people got to actually analyse plan foor/behaviour and who knows what else that got them into understanding that the apartment was a fake one.

And of course, that is nothing compared to the more toxic investigation on their house number, brother and family details, or the recovery of old springforms at a time where Dan clearly wanted to be seen as straight.

The phandom has clearly changed and it is generally less invasive, it looks, but not sure how people would react if someone spotted them kissing in the lift and shared it online for clout

And I am sure your mom was not following every's George Micheal's move with the same level of insight and speed of this internet era and with the same involvement the phandom has with DnP.



On a completely different note, this last video is doing amazingly! 1M views now.
In the podcast Dan talks a lot about being commanded by the numbers (Youtube analysis of performance). I wonder how does it feel to know that it is join content the one that gets him the most views. I hope his next video will get equal number of views or more because to me it would feel like a lot of pressure, this objectively generated number saying this is what will get you views and sponsors and help sustains your channel.

[Amiaw]

I think there’s still a chance it was genuine and, I’ll be honest, I’m really holding on to that theory because I will lose a lot of respect for him if that video was an acted bit just to get content for the tour. As an ambassador for a mental health charity and the guy who literally wrote a book on the subject, I’d be pretty horrified if he put that on and used the kind of language he did, knowing how alarming and potentially triggering that could be to a decent chunk of his audience. I know it really upset me and reminded me of times I was in a similar headspace. I think there’s a possibility he genuinely was in a bad place and had this idea for the end of the show, but hard agree that regardless it feels kind of uncomfy that the videos are being used for the tour when Dan's video said it was going to be for personal use. I heard it was an emotional moment in the show for Dan which also leans me towards thinking the original video was genuine, but still not the context people thought they were submitting videos for.

There were lots of very personal moments posted under the tweet and it really doesn’t look like permission was asked to include them in the montage. I’ve seen at least one person on twitter told by an audience member that their video was included and it was a surprise to them. They seemed happy about it but I don’t know that everybody would be.

I don’t mean to detract from anyone’s excitement about the first show, I’ve absolutely loved seeing everyone’s photos and stories, but the saga of this tweet just makes me feel weird.

Even IF it was genuinely moving I don’t think the way this was handled was right at all. People were tweeting Dan asking if he was okay and he didn’t reply and then he had the chance to say something at the pop up shop and the in the liveshow but he never clarified that he was using those videos in his show. I was always of the opinion that the video was staged so I’m not shocked but I am surprised at how some people in the phandom were sure he would never do this and said anyone that thought different would know he would never use people for his show and now they’re changing their tune and saying it’s okay. I can’t really blame the fans even if I don’t understand excusing something this manipulative but Dan has really changed and it’s not for the better

[Grey]

I think there’s still a chance it was genuine and, I’ll be honest, I’m really holding on to that theory because I will lose a lot of respect for him if that video was an acted bit just to get content for the tour. As an ambassador for a mental health charity and the guy who literally wrote a book on the subject, I’d be pretty horrified if he put that on and used the kind of language he did, knowing how alarming and potentially triggering that could be to a decent chunk of his audience. I know it really upset me and reminded me of times I was in a similar headspace. I think there’s a possibility he genuinely was in a bad place and had this idea for the end of the show, but hard agree that regardless it feels kind of uncomfy that the videos are being used for the tour when Dan's video said it was going to be for personal use. I heard it was an emotional moment in the show for Dan which also leans me towards thinking the original video was genuine, but still not the context people thought they were submitting videos for.

There were lots of very personal moments posted under the tweet and it really doesn’t look like permission was asked to include them in the montage. I’ve seen at least one person on twitter told by an audience member that their video was included and it was a surprise to them. They seemed happy about it but I don’t know that everybody would be.

I don’t mean to detract from anyone’s excitement about the first show, I’ve absolutely loved seeing everyone’s photos and stories, but the saga of this tweet just makes me feel weird.

Even IF it was genuinely moving I don’t think the way this was handled was right at all. People were tweeting Dan asking if he was okay and he didn’t reply and then he had the chance to say something at the pop up shop and the in the liveshow but he never clarified that he was using those videos in his show. I was always of the opinion that the video was staged so I’m not shocked but I am surprised at how some people in the phandom were sure he would never do this and said anyone that thought different would know he would never use people for his show and now they’re changing their tune and saying it’s okay. I can’t really blame the fans even if I don’t understand excusing something this manipulative but Dan has really changed and it’s not for the better

Yeah I’m pretty horrified by how manipulative that comes across
I keep hoping there’s an explanation that isn’t as icky as it seems. I can’t believe that nobody on the production team or even Phil told him it was gross. What a bummer

[Megancita75]

My take on the whole tweet/video issue is that some of the tour material was likely being hammered out at the last minute and that adding the fan videos is actually very sweet; I do agree not asking permission first isn't great, but I guess I'm not that bothered by it as some of the other posters here, and think that the way this played out is just reflective of poor time/organization management and not calculated manipulation.

I'll be curious to hear reports from people who have attending the first few shows about that section. In general, I'm reading some very positive reviews, saying that it was a lot of fun and is very funny, leavened with some more emotional bits.

[Levitating]

Are we sure whether he did not ask for permission? Seems so strange in terms of moral rights in the UK. They could literally be sued

Unless all content shared on Twitter is automatically share as in public domain?

[starsandshards]

i heard that those videos dan asked to be submitted that were supposed to make him happier were used at the end of his show and i don't know how to feel about that? dan's video asking for these videos was quite unprofessional (not meaning that in the bad sense, but as in he wasn't made up with professional lighting and quality like a usual youtube video, plus his voice sounded quite sad) and lots of people really were worried for him, i even saw old fans find out about the video and tweet their own worries.

it's totally possible, and likely, he did need those videos for emotional support or what not but i feel like these people should've been informed that their videos would then be used for his show in the end as being lost in a sea of comments and maybe being seen by your fav youtuber is different to having it be shown to thousands on a worldwide tour and if for some reason he didn't need these clips for emotional support and wasn't going through a mental health crisis but rather twisted it so that they'd be used for his show, then framing it that way is emotionally manipulative at worst and doesn't leave a good taste in my mouth. he could've said "hey guys, i want you to send in clips of your happiest moments so we can all be reminded to appreciate the little things in our lives and i'll pick some to play during my show" or something to that effect and it would've been totally fine so maybe he changed his mind later to add them to the show after he received the videos (which still doesn't really justify not contacting the original senders) but i kind of don't think that was the case as there was a jump cut edited in, but then again dan is quite the perfectionist so maybe he really would've edited that in for something that essentially comes across as a cry for help. i don't know, my mind is scrambled AHHHHHHH.

i don't know if i'm overthinking it but uhh... yeah.

Ew, no, this is not OK. Dan wtf.

[shan]

I was thinking earlier about the special guests mentioned on the tickets for one of Dan’s tour dates and realised it was the show in Cambridge. I’m really interested now if that was just for Cambridge, who the guests were, and if they’ll still be making an appearance at the rescheduled show.

[genderfuck]

hello! first post here. not a long time lurker because that doesn’t quite capture it: it’s more like… former phannie in 2015-2016, sporadically watched their “big” content like the coming out videos when i caught wind of them, and only recently started following them again proper. (i’m a hardened warrior from the days where pointing out they shared the master bedroom in the TATINOF tour bus got you ratioed on twitter!)

i’m a bit OOTL on the whole dan asking for videos thing because i don’t have a twitter. could someone shed some light on this?

[Artdefines06]

I'm not at all surprised those clips were used in the show, though I am surprised that he didn't tell us no matter how late in the day he chose to do it. . They have made these mistakes in the past, and they learn eventually and apologize and do better next time - our faves are sometimes problematic. They use tweets and comments all the time in videos so I'm sure they are covered in some way to do that, but it still feels icky.

These are just ideas, not accusations. I of course have no idea what anyone is thinking (we never do, always remember that)

Maybe Dan's new brand is about blurring the line between creator and human and the power they have over their fans?

I remember when Onion was stressing fans out and there was this great liveshow where Dan explained about clickbait and emotional manipulation. Maybe this era is Dan experimenting with those lines and what he feels comfortable with?

I know I have lots of moments of depression where I get really mad that other people get to be terrible people and get away with it, so why can't I do it too? Maybe he had a moment where he just wanted to be bad?

(on an unrelated note, when I joined this forum my siggy begged for a tell all book and by gum I do think we will get it someday, although he clearly still has more adventures to go on and it wont be till long after he is done. Maybe in his 50's? I still look forward to it.)

[Afunnyworld]

i’m a bit OOTL on the whole dan asking for videos thing because i don’t have a twitter. could someone shed some light on this?

I'm also a bit ootl, Does anyone know if the video where he requested the responses is available somewhere?

[kavat]

i’m a bit OOTL on the whole dan asking for videos thing because i don’t have a twitter. could someone shed some light on this?

I'm also a bit ootl, Does anyone know if the video where he requested the responses is available somewhere?

This is the video, you should be able to see it without a Twitter account.