Dan & Phil Part 19: Banging on the breakfast bar

Our two favourite full time internet nerds who never go outside!
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alittledizzy
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Catallena wrote:
alittledizzy wrote:
Catallena wrote:About feminization of a person in gay ships, it's incredibly common among shippers especially ones who grew up in homophobic environments. They like a gay ship and are probably even pro-LGBT (not always tho how fucked up is that), but to make themselves feel less guilty about going aginst what they were taught they begin feminizing one character in their ship. Sometimes is goes into full imagines of the character being a cis girl while the other character remains a cis boy. It's super creepy and problematic but it happens a lot, so it's not surprising that this would happen in the phandom too.
What you're describing is definitely problematic behavior, but to me completely different from discussing a man wearing or liking genderless or typically feminine items when the man himself actually has/does. Does Dan wear nailpoilsh? No. Does Dan express disgust or seem put off by the questions fans are asking him? No. Is anyone twisting Dan's arm absolutely making him? Of course not.

I feel like going from nail polish to 'shipper fangirls making him a girl bc HOMOPHOBIA' is skipping like a whole wide gray area there. There is plenty of potential for people to be falling into both camps (which again, yes, the situation you stated is problematic) but there's also a lot of other viewpoints to consider here, both from Dan himself and from other fans. Phandom is not a hive mind nor does it have hive values or hive mentalities or hive... formative experiences leading to homophobic behavior, lol.
Nothing in the part you just quoted was about nail polish, it was about feminization being pushed onto gay ships and why that happens because it was a topic that came up with the nail polish stuff. I just shared what I and many others have observed in various fandoms that also deal with this. Nowhere did I say that all people who want Dan to wear nail polish are feminizing him, some even because they have lowkey homophobic opinions.

In fact, I carefully stated that it's SOME people and only PART of the phandom who don't get the hint or just blatantly ignore Dan's discomfort and then said that the common reasons for why feminization of one person/character in a gay ship runs rampant in many fandoms can also be found in the phandom. How much clearer do I have to make it that I do not consider the phandom a hivemind?? Certain groups within any fandoms can have a hivemind though (because people with the same opinions will automatically be drawn towards each other) and those often cause problems depending on what those opinions are. Example: Phan. Most Phan shippers are generally pretty chill and keep their theories and fangirling to themselves or their cirlcles. But there's also a group who decides to be problematic and obnoxious about it. It's the same with nail polish for me.

And nobody might be actually twisting Dan's arm, but imo the pressuring still happens just in a more subtle and sneaky way. And that's still wrong.
I was responding to the part where you said "it's incredibly common among shippers" which gives the impression you think it's a pervasive thing or that most shippers have this 'incredibly common' mindset. If not, then cool, gotcha.

I guess maybe another difference in us is that I haven't read any discomfort in Dan? In the 2012 response sure but Dan was uncomfortable with a lot of things in 2012 that he's embracing of now. He's not saying he's going to do it but his responses don't seem uncomfortable, they're in the same line as his fans asking him to talk about a band he's not into or watch an anime he doesn't like. Hell, he gives a stronger and more decisive no on those, actually.
idk
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[offtopic]Offtopic and kinda irrelevant but i was trying to make a list of things we defo know deppy are currently working on/have worked on that aren't released, and all i can think of is

-tatinof aus tour
-tatinof europe tour
-2nd book
-tatinof doco + making of tatinof doco
-becoming yt 2
-mysterious voice acting episode

is there anything else that we know of?[/offtopic]
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bluewho
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alittledizzy wrote: Personally in this instance I don't think fans need to take offense where Dan (and Phil) don't. If they can handle two thousand people shouting at them to kiss while they're live on stage or without flinching, I don't think they're losing sleep over a few questions on a livestream or a couple fans a meet and greet "pushing" something on them. And if they're taking issue with what they get in twitter replies and in the tumblr tag then surely there are things that would bother them way worse than nail polish.
I completely agree with alittledizzy on this. I think the fangirls asking to wear nail polish are doing it simply because they think it will look cute on . I don't think though that these fangirls are motivated by any malicious wish to impose heterosexual gender roles onto the ship - I don't think there is bad intent. The fangirls who asked most recently are probably young and unaware that Dan has answered before that he doesn't want to do it personally.

As to whether there is some subconscious motivation to attempt to impose heterosexual gender roles onto the ship - yes there probably is. We're all trained to think in a certain way about relationships which indoctrinates us into thinking that in relationships one partner is feminine and passive and one partner masculine and dominant - it's not surprising when we see that this is projected into fanfiction.

However, what's interesting to me is that while fangirls may be imposing heterosexual gender roles to some extent the effect is not total. They are still recognizing for example that even though they imagine Phil to be gay, they also imagine him as masculine - so subverting the stereotype of the gay man as effeminate. While they may be imagining Dan to have traditionally 'feminine' characteristics they are still viewing him as a man - and so revealing that one can still be a man and have characteristics that are traditionally 'feminine'. Presumably, in the case of fanfiction, they will find one or both of these figures to be desirable or something positive (revealed by their descriptions of it as adorable, cute, 'pheelings' etc). To me then this has the potential to challenge traditional ideas about gender, and to destabilize traditional ideas - to be creative about how we think about gender. It's like what Judith Butler wrote about men who 'perform' gender by dressing up in drag. They are both reinforcing it by acting out stereotypical ideas of femininity, but in the same breath challenging ideas about gender because they themselves, and their audience, is aware that they are men 'being' women. To me feminisation of male characters in gay shipping may not necessarily always be an expression of homophobia/stereotypical ideas, it can actually be an expression of thinking creatively about gender - as what we are essentially talking about is feminised men who are by their nature subversive symbolic figures. It can stem from a wish to escape the 'boys are this and girls are that' binary and to create new ideas about what relationships might be like if gender characteristics could be adopted by anyone no matter their biological sex. (Spoiler: they can :shock: )

I'm not sure I'm articulating myself well. I suppose what I mean to say is I don't really see it as that problematic that people fantasize about Dan or Phil in nail polish and are interested in what it would be like to see that. Because if they did see it it'd probably further work to challenge their ideas about gender.

However people should seriously stop asking them to wear nail polish because they clearly don't want to. Also it's none of the fandom's business what wear. should wear whatever they want to wear and should not have to put up with harrassment/judgements/suggestions on this topic from anyone else. They have no obligation to break gender norms with their fashion choices, they should just wear what they want. Idc whether wears nail polish or not I think they are both cute whatever they wear.

On that point, here is photographic evidence that Dan looks good in bin bag :
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itsonlybeth
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idk wrote:[offtopic]Offtopic and kinda irrelevant but i was trying to make a list of things we defo know deppy are currently working on/have worked on that aren't released, and all i can think of is

-tatinof aus tour
-tatinof europe tour
-2nd book
-tatinof doco + making of tatinof doco
-becoming yt 2
-mysterious voice acting episode

is there anything else that we know of?[/offtopic]
uhh..do we definitely know that there will be a second book? I feel that TABINOF is a pretty great stand-alone and I'm not sure they would have much to say outside of that. I'm probably wrong but that's my current opinion. And Europe tour hasn't properly been hinted to I feel, or maybe it has. I've seen every recent liveshow and I'm not sure that anything has been said to really allude to a Europe tour.
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idk
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itsonlybeth wrote:
idk wrote:[offtopic]Offtopic and kinda irrelevant but i was trying to make a list of things we defo know deppy are currently working on/have worked on that aren't released, and all i can think of is

-tatinof aus tour
-tatinof europe tour
-2nd book
-tatinof doco + making of tatinof doco
-becoming yt 2
-mysterious voice acting episode

is there anything else that we know of?[/offtopic]
uhh..do we definitely know that there will be a second book? I feel that TABINOF is a pretty great stand-alone and I'm not sure they would have much to say outside of that. I'm probably wrong but that's my current opinion. And Europe tour hasn't properly been hinted to I feel, or maybe it has. I've seen every recent liveshow and I'm not sure that anything has been said to really allude to a Europe tour.
nothing confirmed re:book but i'm 99.99% sure a tour book is to be expected given it has an isbn + all the evidence of photos etc they've taken/all the things they've been doing + other things we've discussed

and re:europe tour in dan's 12th of July live show he said “I have a feeling that [Australia] won’t be the last tatinof announcement”, they've also definitely confirmed they're working on it/definitely trying - i'm assuming it's a matter of logistics, so also not confirmed but definitely/heavily alluded to
itsonlybeth
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idk wrote:
itsonlybeth wrote:
idk wrote:[offtopic]Offtopic and kinda irrelevant but i was trying to make a list of things we defo know deppy are currently working on/have worked on that aren't released, and all i can think of is

-tatinof aus tour
-tatinof europe tour
-2nd book
-tatinof doco + making of tatinof doco
-becoming yt 2
-mysterious voice acting episode

is there anything else that we know of?[/offtopic]
uhh..do we definitely know that there will be a second book? I feel that TABINOF is a pretty great stand-alone and I'm not sure they would have much to say outside of that. I'm probably wrong but that's my current opinion. And Europe tour hasn't properly been hinted to I feel, or maybe it has. I've seen every recent liveshow and I'm not sure that anything has been said to really allude to a Europe tour.
nothing confirmed re:book but i'm 99.99% sure a tour book is to be expected given it has an isbn + all the evidence of photos etc they've taken/all the things they've been doing + other things we've discussed

and re:europe tour in dan's 12th of July live show he said “I have a feeling that [Australia] won’t be the last tatinof announcement”, they've also definitely confirmed they're working on it/definitely trying - i'm assuming it's a matter of logistics, so also not confirmed but definitely/heavily alluded to
gosh I hope they tour again in the UK for a bit, I wasn't a big enough stan to bother last time and I'm kicking myself now. I must be really out of the loop, there's evidence for a second book?
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trashqueen
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itsonlybeth wrote:
idk wrote:[offtopic]Offtopic and kinda irrelevant but i was trying to make a list of things we defo know deppy are currently working on/have worked on that aren't released, and all i can think of is

-tatinof aus tour
-tatinof europe tour
-2nd book
-tatinof doco + making of tatinof doco
-becoming yt 2
-mysterious voice acting episode

is there anything else that we know of?[/offtopic]
uhh..do we definitely know that there will be a second book? I feel that TABINOF is a pretty great stand-alone and I'm not sure they would have much to say outside of that. I'm probably wrong but that's my current opinion. And Europe tour hasn't properly been hinted to I feel, or maybe it has. I've seen every recent liveshow and I'm not sure that anything has been said to really allude to a Europe tour.
i have bad news for you then, the second book is definitely happening, it's already listed on amazon, can't be bothered to look for it but we talked about it somewhere in this thread

re: nail polish, i'm in the dizzy/mermaid boat, i don't really understand why it enrages so many people that part of the phandom 'pressures' them into it, when honestly i don't see them as being bothered by it, dan's recent responses read just as uninterested to me, pretty sure (if they know about it) they are way more bothered by my (and other people here, hi 5 busgate crew) fixation with their living arrangements during the us tour than they are by the kids giving them nail polish, and no one has been bashing me for my interest in that (bc y'all are interested too to some degree ;)), so i don't think it's fair to make such a big deal out of it

that being said, i definitely agree that there might be some subconscious problematic thoughts behind why it's so popular, but i don't think that goes for everyone, pretty sure a lot of people just think boys look cute with nail polish
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Catallena
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alittledizzy wrote:
Catallena wrote:
alittledizzy wrote:
Catallena wrote:About feminization of a person in gay ships, it's incredibly common among shippers especially ones who grew up in homophobic environments. They like a gay ship and are probably even pro-LGBT (not always tho how fucked up is that), but to make themselves feel less guilty about going aginst what they were taught they begin feminizing one character in their ship. Sometimes is goes into full imagines of the character being a cis girl while the other character remains a cis boy. It's super creepy and problematic but it happens a lot, so it's not surprising that this would happen in the phandom too.
What you're describing is definitely problematic behavior, but to me completely different from discussing a man wearing or liking genderless or typically feminine items when the man himself actually has/does. Does Dan wear nailpoilsh? No. Does Dan express disgust or seem put off by the questions fans are asking him? No. Is anyone twisting Dan's arm absolutely making him? Of course not.

I feel like going from nail polish to 'shipper fangirls making him a girl bc HOMOPHOBIA' is skipping like a whole wide gray area there. There is plenty of potential for people to be falling into both camps (which again, yes, the situation you stated is problematic) but there's also a lot of other viewpoints to consider here, both from Dan himself and from other fans. Phandom is not a hive mind nor does it have hive values or hive mentalities or hive... formative experiences leading to homophobic behavior, lol.
Nothing in the part you just quoted was about nail polish, it was about feminization being pushed onto gay ships and why that happens because it was a topic that came up with the nail polish stuff. I just shared what I and many others have observed in various fandoms that also deal with this. Nowhere did I say that all people who want Dan to wear nail polish are feminizing him, some even because they have lowkey homophobic opinions.

In fact, I carefully stated that it's SOME people and only PART of the phandom who don't get the hint or just blatantly ignore Dan's discomfort and then said that the common reasons for why feminization of one person/character in a gay ship runs rampant in many fandoms can also be found in the phandom. How much clearer do I have to make it that I do not consider the phandom a hivemind?? Certain groups within any fandoms can have a hivemind though (because people with the same opinions will automatically be drawn towards each other) and those often cause problems depending on what those opinions are. Example: Phan. Most Phan shippers are generally pretty chill and keep their theories and fangirling to themselves or their cirlcles. But there's also a group who decides to be problematic and obnoxious about it. It's the same with nail polish for me.

And nobody might be actually twisting Dan's arm, but imo the pressuring still happens just in a more subtle and sneaky way. And that's still wrong.
I was responding to the part where you said "it's incredibly common among shippers" which gives the impression you think it's a pervasive thing or that most shippers have this 'incredibly common' mindset. If not, then cool, gotcha.

I guess maybe another difference in us is that I haven't read any discomfort in Dan? In the 2012 response sure but Dan was uncomfortable with a lot of things in 2012 that he's embracing of now. He's not saying he's going to do it but his responses don't seem uncomfortable, they're in the same line as his fans asking him to talk about a band he's not into or watch an anime he doesn't like. Hell, he gives a stronger and more decisive no on those, actually.
That's indeed not what I meant at all, it was more of a 'more common than people think' type of thing. It's more common than people think that people who ship a gay ship are actually homophobic and then start to feminize one person/character or assign weird male/female roles in a same sex relationship. It happens in most fandoms with popular gay ships. To me that makes it common, but not in a 'all shippers are like this' way.

In interpreted his responses as him not being fully at ease with the question and subject, though others can think differently of course. But to me, having to say 'no' twice (not counting the 2012 response) is one time too much. And not being listened to when saying 'no' will make someone uncomfortable. He said it once, people didn't listen and someone even gave him nail polish at a tour stop (subtle pressure, because people do expect them to appreciate their gifts by using them), then he has to say no a second time. And I fear it won't be the last time he has to address it. I feel like people think that because he doesn't directly say 'No' that it's okay for them to continue. Yet if he were to say it in a direct way, people could take it in the wrong way and think that he doesn't support the cause or something. Dan being a bit of a dick about Phan in 2012 resulted in a few people accusing him of homophobia. Of course he's able to give stronger opinions on movies and anime, because those aren't related to a social issues and are thus safe subjects.
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chloek88
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idk wrote:[offtopic]Offtopic and kinda irrelevant but i was trying to make a list of things we defo know deppy are currently working on/have worked on that aren't released, and all i can think of is

-tatinof aus tour
-tatinof europe tour
-2nd book
-tatinof doco + making of tatinof doco
-becoming yt 2
-mysterious voice acting episode

is there anything else that we know of?[/offtopic]
This is just a lil thing but Dan recorded some stuff with guild wars 2 people when he was in Seattle, presumably for a guildchat, which has not yet been released
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chloek88 wrote:
idk wrote:[offtopic]Offtopic and kinda irrelevant but i was trying to make a list of things we defo know deppy are currently working on/have worked on that aren't released, and all i can think of is

-tatinof aus tour
-tatinof europe tour
-2nd book
-tatinof doco + making of tatinof doco
-becoming yt 2
-mysterious voice acting episode

is there anything else that we know of?[/offtopic]
This is just a lil thing but Dan recorded some stuff with guild wars 2 people when he was in Seattle, presumably for a guildchat, which has not yet been released
I think I'm most curious about the voice acting, we haven't heard anything about since, right?
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eevee wrote:
fancybum wrote:But none of the three of them are closeted. It's one thing if he had just said 'speculating about peoples' private lives/relationships' and left it there, but he whipped out the C-word to take his point a little further. I suppose it could be somewhat about himself, but if anything he would be in the Questioning category (which again, he's been open about), not Closeted. Hmm, who knows. Regardless of who (if anybody) he specifically had in mind, the post is still painfully relevant to D&P and their viewers, so.
It seems suspiciously relevant to to me

Also, hey guys, I have some bad news for some of you:

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Eevee gave us info on the 2nd book several pages back on this thread
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LurkingTrash wrote:
chloek88 wrote:
idk wrote:[offtopic]Offtopic and kinda irrelevant but i was trying to make a list of things we defo know deppy are currently working on/have worked on that aren't released, and all i can think of is

-tatinof aus tour
-tatinof europe tour
-2nd book
-tatinof doco + making of tatinof doco
-becoming yt 2
-mysterious voice acting episode

is there anything else that we know of?[/offtopic]
This is just a lil thing but Dan recorded some stuff with guild wars 2 people when he was in Seattle, presumably for a guildchat, which has not yet been released
I think I'm most curious about the voice acting, we haven't heard anything about since, right?
Yeah and they said it's something we might not know so i'm guessing it's not popular/mainstream right? I'm really curious about this
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alittledizzy
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Since it's slow tonight, I'm gonna express some mookentooken love. He was cracking me up earlier with his "protip" debacle.
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I'm finding this discussion on nail polish/association topics very interesting. I'm probably on Catallena's side. Although I do think it's a lot to do with some fans projecting themselves onto Dan and Phil. In a way I have no problem with fans asking if they would ever wear nail polish etc but its the constant badgering that I really despise. I don't think you can justify the fact that Dan has changed his opinions on things in past as an excuse for why people should continue to constantly ask him about it.
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I agree with a lot of what has been said, my original comment on the feminization thing was more about the fact it's kind of problematic to push heteronormativity on same sex relationships. I don't think it's bad for men to like things typically seen as feminine, but like someone stated earlier it's a whole different ballpark to push femininity in the way some people do. Same sex relationships don't work like that, there's not a 'girl' and a 'guy'. I could go on about it more but I think you guys have said most of what I could say. xD

On another note I had no idea they were working on another book! It'll be interesting to see what they put in it. I like the title. Very Dan and Phil.

I've been super curious about that mysterious voice acting thing for so long. I hope whatever it is it comes out soon. I'm wondering if it's for a show that's not out yet at all or just an episode that hasn't come out yet.

EDIT: Pfft, I hadn't seen those tweets of Martyn's. As much as I'm tired of seeing #ProTip in comments on youtube that did get a chuckle out of me. I suppose it's besed used in moderation. xD
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This has been a very interesting read, I particularly love the post by bluewho

Martyn's tweets, he is great, seems such a chill guy and with some similar/Phil-like quirkiness to how he thinks.
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About the 2nd book: Many websites (incl some amazon pages and book depository) have removed the book, so there's an error when you visit the german amazon page for example. The japanese, french, indian and UK amazon say the book is "untitled" (it used to say "go outside").
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Ticia
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Even though it's a silly thing, friendly reminder that Phil is losing against Saccone Jolys:

http://www.radiotimes.com/onlinechampion
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Diyes_Celine
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Ticia wrote:Even though it's a silly thing, friendly reminder that Phil is losing against Saccone Jolys:

http://www.radiotimes.com/onlinechampion
Yes, please. I tried but Saccone Jolys was able to surpass Phil in 10 minutes. I'm like WTF. I know it's pathetic and shit. I will usually wouldn't care. But I refuse to lose against a guy who exploits his children just like Shaytards.

Note: Dan definitely has that voting shiz in the bag. He's possible opponents are Louise, Carrie, Saccone Jolys or Phil.

Y am I invested on this??!! Ugh.
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Ticia
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Diyes_Celine wrote:
Ticia wrote:Even though it's a silly thing, friendly reminder that Phil is losing against Saccone Jolys:

http://www.radiotimes.com/onlinechampion
Yes, please. I tried but Saccone Jolys was able to surpass Phil in 10 minutes. I'm like WTF. I know it's pathetic and shit. I will usually wouldn't care. But I refuse to lose against a guy who exploits his children just like Shaytards.

Note: Dan definitely has that voting shiz in the bag. He's possible opponents are Louise, Carrie, Saccone Jolys or Phil.

Y am I invested on this??!! Ugh.
I don't know, but I'm invested on it too Apparently, the SJ are offering a camera to their voters, talk about fair game.
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Ticia wrote:Even though it's a silly thing, friendly reminder that Phil is losing against Saccone Jolys:

http://www.radiotimes.com/onlinechampion
Just went to vote Phil and every time the page refreshed after me clicking Phil I noticed Saccone Jolys number had went up by like 50+ in those few seconds. That may be a lost cause.


Edit- I know it's a click as much as you like vote so the numbers aren't real but the number of "votes" cast in the Phil and Saccone Joly's race is ridiculously high in comparison to the other votes, Dan and Tomska have like 20000 votes cast between them and Hazel/Carrie and Louse/Tanya around 15000 between them. Phil and Saccone Joly have 160000. I suspect some people have lost feeling in their fingers getting the numbers that high.
Diyes_Celine
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pearshaped34 wrote:
Ticia wrote:Even though it's a silly thing, friendly reminder that Phil is losing against Saccone Jolys:

http://www.radiotimes.com/onlinechampion
Just went to vote Phil and every time the page refreshed after me clicking Phil I noticed Saccone Jolys number had went up by like 50+ in those few seconds. That may be a lost cause.


Edit- I know it's a click as much as you like vote so the numbers aren't real but the number of "votes" cast in the Phil and Saccone Joly's race is ridiculously high in comparison to the other votes, Dan and Tomska have like 20000 votes cast between them and Hazel/Carrie and Louse/Tanya around 15000 between them. Phil and Saccone Joly have 160000. I suspect some people have lost feeling in their fingers getting the numbers that high.
The number the of votes were really big compared to the other groups. It seems to be a lost cause especially that the US fans are still sleeping. But I'll keep on voting. I am already using my personal phone, work phone and laptop. I am stubborn.

Well good luck winning against Dan. Dangirls, crush SacconeJolys. Hahaha.
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backin2009 wrote:About the 2nd book: Many websites (incl some amazon pages and book depository) have removed the book, so there's an error when you visit the german amazon page for example. The japanese, french, indian and UK amazon say the book is "untitled" (it used to say "go outside").
Maybe Phil send them angry DM :rage: for leaking the book
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itsonlybeth
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Diyes_Celine wrote:
pearshaped34 wrote:
Ticia wrote:Even though it's a silly thing, friendly reminder that Phil is losing against Saccone Jolys:

http://www.radiotimes.com/onlinechampion
Just went to vote Phil and every time the page refreshed after me clicking Phil I noticed Saccone Jolys number had went up by like 50+ in those few seconds. That may be a lost cause.


Edit- I know it's a click as much as you like vote so the numbers aren't real but the number of "votes" cast in the Phil and Saccone Joly's race is ridiculously high in comparison to the other votes, Dan and Tomska have like 20000 votes cast between them and Hazel/Carrie and Louse/Tanya around 15000 between them. Phil and Saccone Joly have 160000. I suspect some people have lost feeling in their fingers getting the numbers that high.
The number the of votes were really big compared to the other groups. It seems to be a lost cause especially that the US fans are still sleeping. But I'll keep on voting. I am already using my personal phone, work phone and laptop. I am stubborn.

Well good luck winning against Dan. Dangirls, crush SacconeJolys. Hahaha.
I hadn't even heard of SacconeJolys, but if they're anything like Shaytards I want out. Shay Carl gets on my nerves big time, and I really tried to get into that channel. I feel like it might not even be worth trying to vote for Phil if the difference between votes is that high. If he won it last year, and I'm not sure he's that bothered about it anyway, does it matter in the end? I like that we're pushing for Phil votes instead of Dan though, I don't love it when some fans put Dan ahead of Phil when they're a team.

And searching for 'go outside' pulls up an 'untitled' result, but a result nonetheless. I can't say I'm pleased there's another book as I don't think they could top TABINOF and is there any point in it anyway...but I'm sure whatever they're doing will be great. I wasn't this deep into the phandom this time last year, before TABINOF was announced did everyone know it was going on?
~ fight me you ceramic bitch ~
pearshaped34
morning quiff
Posts: 458
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2016 10:42 am

Diyes_Celine wrote:
pearshaped34 wrote:
Ticia wrote:Even though it's a silly thing, friendly reminder that Phil is losing against Saccone Jolys:

http://www.radiotimes.com/onlinechampion
Just went to vote Phil and every time the page refreshed after me clicking Phil I noticed Saccone Jolys number had went up by like 50+ in those few seconds. That may be a lost cause.


Edit- I know it's a click as much as you like vote so the numbers aren't real but the number of "votes" cast in the Phil and Saccone Joly's race is ridiculously high in comparison to the other votes, Dan and Tomska have like 20000 votes cast between them and Hazel/Carrie and Louse/Tanya around 15000 between them. Phil and Saccone Joly have 160000. I suspect some people have lost feeling in their fingers getting the numbers that high.
The number the of votes were really big compared to the other groups. It seems to be a lost cause especially that the US fans are still sleeping. But I'll keep on voting. I am already using my personal phone, work phone and laptop. I am stubborn.

Well good luck winning against Dan. Dangirls, crush SacconeJolys. Hahaha.
Saccone Jolys have went up about 30000 votes since I made my first post and I'd never heard of them before today! (Admittedly I avoid family bloggers like the plague though).
Do they have some kind of crazy dedicated fandom or something? Because for their number of votes to be jumping that fast they either have a small army of people clicking away for them or bots on their side.

I'm not even sure Dangirls will be able to beat those kind of numbers in the next round. (Sorry Phil but with 40000 votes between you guys now I'm conceding you won't be Dan's next challenger.)
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