Dan & Phil Part 23: Let's just retract the fist.

Our two favourite full time internet nerds who never go outside!
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flarequake
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l8er_sk8er wrote:
majitzu wrote:I laugh a lot at the dirty bitches comment

I totally forgot about this, when Dan show us the translated Tabinof book he said the guy that translated that even translated his dream journal to russian... HOW? We try that and no one understood anything, are we lacking? I'm so confused. I need some russian to buy the book and tell me what type of translation was that. Because for the most part it was only some words that didn't form a sentence. I'm like
I looked through the book today at a book store and whole book seems to be translated really well but on the dream journal pages she was struggling and some words was just question marks. Unfortunately nobody have superpower to decrypt Dan's handwriting.
Thanks for checking it and confirming Gotta remember this is the dream journal he wrote in when he was 9 years old and half-asleep.

Kinda random tangent, but while we're on the dream journal, here's my contribution to the Phandom-is-everywhere creepiness The journal itself wasn't Suzy the Funky Turtle as he says in the audio book, but he was on the right lines. It's Mad Cow from http://withitworld.com/withit/ sold at WHSmith at the time (I have some stickers with brand name and date 2004, I didn't expect to find anything online still, but they're still going strong. 2004's too late for him to have been 9, but on their About page they say the range was launched in 2002 so Dan might have misremembered his age by a year or two).

You can see on the picture of the notebooks they sell now http://withitworld.com/withit/products/ ... ry/?sc=746 the cog-shaped symbol (6 udder-nipples in a circle? nice) that matches the design on the inside cover of the journal on the top left of the page in Tabinof. Also that page starts with Profile: Mad, and also has Food: Milkshakes and Character: Mad.
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Philena
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flarequake wrote:
l8er_sk8er wrote:
majitzu wrote:I laugh a lot at the dirty bitches comment

I totally forgot about this, when Dan show us the translated Tabinof book he said the guy that translated that even translated his dream journal to russian... HOW? We try that and no one understood anything, are we lacking? I'm so confused. I need some russian to buy the book and tell me what type of translation was that. Because for the most part it was only some words that didn't form a sentence. I'm like
I looked through the book today at a book store and whole book seems to be translated really well but on the dream journal pages she was struggling and some words was just question marks. Unfortunately nobody have superpower to decrypt Dan's handwriting.
Thanks for checking it and confirming Gotta remember this is the dream journal he wrote in when he was 9 years old and half-asleep.

Kinda random tangent, but while we're on the dream journal, here's my contribution to the Phandom-is-everywhere creepiness The journal itself wasn't Suzy the Funky Turtle as he says in the audio book, but he was on the right lines. It's Mad Cow from http://withitworld.com/withit/ sold at WHSmith at the time (I have some stickers with brand name and date 2004, I didn't expect to find anything online still, but they're still going strong. 2004's too late for him to have been 9, but on their About page they say the range was launched in 2002 so Dan might have misremembered his age by a year or two).

You can see on the picture of the notebooks they sell now http://withitworld.com/withit/products/ ... ry/?sc=746 the cog-shaped symbol (6 udder-nipples in a circle? nice) that matches the design on the inside cover of the journal on the top left of the page in Tabinof. Also that page starts with Profile: Mad, and also has Food: Milkshakes and Character: Mad.
That is my favorite kind of sleuthing right there! This is what I signed up for
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DryCereal
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Other possibility is that he started journal-ing when he was 9, and this is just one volume...

I had stationery from that range too!
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mez29
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Mad Cow! That takes me back. Nice detective work flarequake, this is the kind of thing I live for.

(given that I have been halfheartedly trying to teach myself Russian for the past year, it wouldn't be unacceptable to order the Russian tabinof, right? if I can find somewhere that delivers to the UK …)
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[offtopic]Goodness the word mad cow triggered a thorn on my side, the fact that I was in UK during the height of the mad cow disease had barred me from donating blood.[/offtopic]
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akui
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IckleMissMayhem wrote:
000dia000 wrote:I agree with the whole "dirty bitches" thing being blown up a little out of proportion, I found it quite in tune with British humour and to an extent tumblr humour, while Dan's quite sassy and a little blunt attitude in his recent liveshow made him seem a little aggressive towards his audience, I found this comment just a cut of sass he threw to be relatable.
"a little"?!



T'wouldn't be the internet if people weren't going out of their way to get offended! ;)
I don't think calling your mostly teenage female fanbase "dirty bitches" the best choice of words in the world, Daniel? No matter what he's intention was or whatever reason he had, it was anything but appropriate. And i think it's completely reasonable for people to complain about it.

But, is he a horrible person for saying that? Of course not, none of us is perfect, and we misspoke, it's very normal, calling him out for inappropriate behavior doesn't equal to blaming him or want to make him look bad.

I understand why people would think it's his tumblr humor/brit humor/sassy humor and whatever catagory of comedian he is, i get it, but being a comedian doesn't make him free of criticism, big comedians get call out for inappropriate jokes all the time, Dan's not the only one.

That aside, i find the whole liveshow incredibly chill and nonchill at the same time? The chill part is that he was being kind honest and open with his viewers and he were commenting on things that he would normally ignore, like shipping and airport stalking. And the nonchillness was he actually said something passive aggressive or thrown some shades. I find it strangely amazing and truly truly entertaining.

About Phil's ls (sorry i had two exams this week i ain't got no time to be a trash), was also strangely amazing to me. He actually talked about things and he talked about them in a way that adults talk. He seemed very happy and chatty and he talked like he was talking to his girlfriends. (female friends, not girlfriend) I enjoyed it very much, probably my fav ls of him.
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bluewho
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akui wrote:
IckleMissMayhem wrote:
000dia000 wrote:I agree with the whole "dirty bitches" thing being blown up a little out of proportion, I found it quite in tune with British humour and to an extent tumblr humour, while Dan's quite sassy and a little blunt attitude in his recent liveshow made him seem a little aggressive towards his audience, I found this comment just a cut of sass he threw to be relatable.
"a little"?!



T'wouldn't be the internet if people weren't going out of their way to get offended! ;)
I don't think calling your mostly teenage female fanbase "dirty bitches" the best choice of words in the world, Daniel? No matter what he's intention was or whatever reason he had, it was anything but appropriate. And i think it's completely reasonable for people to complain about it.

But, is he a horrible person for saying that? Of course not, none of us is perfect, and we misspoke, it's very normal, calling him out for inappropriate behavior doesn't equal to blaming him or want to make him look bad.

I understand why people would think it's his tumblr humor/brit humor/sassy humor and whatever catagory of comedian he is, i get it, but being a comedian doesn't make him free of criticism, big comedians get call out for inappropriate jokes all the time, Dan's not the only one.

That aside, i find the whole liveshow incredibly chill and nonchill at the same time? The chill part is that he was being kind honest and open with his viewers and he were commenting on things that he would normally ignore, like shipping and airport stalking. And the nonchillness was he actually said something passive aggressive or thrown some shades. I find it strangely amazing and truly truly entertaining.
this is what I was trying to say. Chill & non-chill and passive aggressive.

I will say I thoroughly enjoyed the liveshow, will probably rewatch it several times, and stan him harder than ever afterwards. I actually did find the dirty bitch joke hilarious - but that doesn't mean I wasn't also worried about him using those terms in front of so many young girls
wtfamidoinghere
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I don't mind swearing and if Dan had said "Bye assholes!" i wouldnt care at all, but i really wish he would drop the misogynistic slurs. The thought that he's teaching his tween audience that it's ok for a man to call them bitches is very uncomfortable to me.

And i don't think it's ok to tell women who don't want to be called bitch/whore/slut by a man that they are overreacting imo.

EDIT: And if it was coming from anger, i still think that everybody should be able to voice their frustration without using slurs, it's not that hard.
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I don't know at what point we started holding Dan accountable as a role model for his young female audience?

He isn't Phil. He isn't PG. And whilst he's socially aware, he also isn't and never had been free of language which could be considered offensive. 'Bitches' is really quite light (well, it is in England, maybe its one of those funny ones which is worse in America).

At the same time, I somewhat agree with this:
wtfamidoinghere wrote:The thought that he's teaching his tween audience that it's ok for a man to call them bitches is very uncomfortable to me.
Strangely I think sexuality comes into play here. Would it be off for a straight adult male to call his young female audience bitches? Sure. Would anyone bat an eyelid at Tyler Oakley saying the same thing? Absolutely not. I think that may have something to do with how the adult male in question is considered to perceive females, and the context of the word not only to the conversation but also their lives as a whole.

Dan falls somewhere in the middle, which might explain the mixed reaction here.

NB: if anyone tried to come for me and take my post out of context to suggest I'm simply saying its ok for gay guys to be misogynistic, I will fight you.
I wonder how biology can explain the physical pain you feel in your chest when all you want to do is talk shit on IDB
melon lord
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I'm British so idk, British humour is very rough around the edges compared to other countries. I was caught off guard because I didn't expect it but also didn't think anything of it. I thought it was deliberately last minute to throw people off like "huh??" just as he cut the stream.

I kind of agree with him not being a role model for young fans, though. I mean, apart from when he has good and genuine opinions about stuff, he's definitely never marketed himself as onii-san Dan. He's not Louise/sprinkleofglitter who made a conscious effort to be PG and fluffy, and he's not John Green who is an "older father figure" of sorts.

Lbr, young fangirls watch him either bc 1) as a pair, 2) he's edgy and #relatable and 3) very good looking damn his fine existence They watch him because he's like the cheeky thing your parents don't want you to watch. Phil is the guy your parents would approve of. :lol:

But hey I'm an adult and nobody can tell me who to stan so I'll stan bad boy Dan

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kuensukki
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I just caught up and in surprised many are so passionate about the onion thing. Everyone is subjected to their own opinion but honestly what he's found isn't different to what fans do on a daily basis. Have you read the comments under his tweets that are spammed or read the Dan imagines. He has always been sexualized and honestly what onions doing isn't different in my eyes. Hell at times in the past Dan used to encourage being sexualized by posting pictures online, making racy comments, even doing the "sexy end screen dance". Dans also guilty of sexual ozone men and making comments that then get spammed to said guys insta and twitter.

People use Dan all the time because he's popular and being a very loud and protective following with him. Following protective fandom= shitstorm even though this is just onion being onion.

I understand that onion has a following and reaches a larger audience then dans sexual twitter comments but to me it seems like a overreaction that people were spamming it and that he then addressed how people could like them and him. Onion to me is gross because he was accused of rape and other charges not because he decided to make fanart that sexualized Dan. Maybe because I think it's how he's always been so I don't see any difference in his behavior except that now it involves Dan That's something so many people already do yet everyone is suddenly so sensitive towards it!? So yea I don't really consider this is something that should be given so much attention to but sadly that's exactly what's happened!

Again this is a personal OPINION please don't come after me with a pitchfork
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flarequake
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Thanks, guys, glad my sleuthing skills can be of use All it took was a search of the brand name on the stickers and their site is right there. Goodness knows how just the character profile, without the name or the character itself, sparked my memory.

On his ls parting shot of "dirty bitches", I agree with nearly everything people have already said. It stuck out as the final thing he said and he didn't change his expression as he said it, while he checked himself earlier on when he roasted the person who asked him to and overstepped with "twat", so it did seem incongruous. Especially as he'd just given a lovely calming Dan's-end-of-ls-speech and things like that are role-modelly.

Also people applaud them both for being such icons of being yourself so on the one hand he has ended up a role-model, but part of him is that he's always been sweary and asks us not to take things too seriously. "Bitch" is also quite a loaded and sexist word, though. As with this great point:
wtfamidoinghere wrote:The thought that he's teaching his tween audience that it's ok for a man to call them bitches is very uncomfortable to me.
It reminds me of the bit in Mean Girls when Tina Fey's character says "You've all got to stop calling yourselves bitches and whores, it just makes it okay for guys to call you bitches and whores".
Lurktacularr wrote:Strangely I think sexuality comes into play here. Would it be off for a straight adult male to call his young female audience bitches? Sure. Would anyone bat an eyelid at Tyler Oakley saying the same thing? Absolutely not. I think that may have something to do with how the adult male in question is considered to perceive females, and the context of the word not only to the conversation but also their lives as a whole.

Dan falls somewhere in the middle, which might explain the mixed reaction here.
Great point too so yeah, depends how it's used, how it lands/is perceived and with 20k mostly-kids watching, how much should he be himself vs keeping some things in check?

What with the opinions he expressed or held back, the constant chat spam, how he seemed tired and still congested, he seemed fed up, maybe frustrated that he can't just ask people not to do something without offending or sparking an argument, maybe he'd had enough of being diplomatic? Or maybe it was the opposite and he was being jokingly familiar? I often hesitate to be sure with things he's said which is annoying and I don't like second-guessing myself, it feels wishy-washy, but I try not to read too much into him as he reminds me so much of myself and I worry I'm projecting (also makes him all the more fascinating).
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flarequake wrote:What with the opinions he expressed or held back, the constant chat spam, how he seemed tired and still congested, he seemed fed up, maybe frustrated that he can't just ask people not to do something without offending or sparking an argument, maybe he'd had enough of being diplomatic? Or maybe it was the opposite and he was being jokingly familiar? I often hesitate to be sure with things he's said which is annoying and I don't like second-guessing myself, it feels wishy-washy, but I try not to read too much into him as he reminds me so much of myself and I worry I'm projecting (also makes him all the more fascinating).
I agree so much with all of this. You just summed up perfectly my takeaway from this liveshow and how he was feeling in regard to a lot of the things he chose to mention.
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000dia000
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To conclude my two cents on the topic of #dirtybitches I think we should all unanimously agree on "No, Dan, don't use that language, it is inappropriate, for the love of sweet holy jesus, stop"

I digress, Daniel yesterday stated the fact that the phandom spam youtube videos (u dont say?) particularly music related things, such as "Can you imagine Dan playing this for Phil?" and low and behold on RadioHead's "True Love Waits":
Image
While the comments were made in good humor, they make a good point in that the phandom often acts under The Streisand Effect, "the phenomenon whereby an attempt to hide, remove, or censor a piece of information has the unintended consequence of publicizing the information more widely, usually facilitated by the Internet."
A recent widespread example of this was the memeificiation of our Lord and saviour Harambe (RIP) with the "dicks out for Harambe" expression plastered all over the internet, much to the horror of the Cincinnati Zoo who asked for respect Harambe after he was murdered died.
A recent example is a Tumblr video that Pewdiepie did where he said he would drink every time he saw Dan or Phil in his tag. To make a long story short, the Phandom made a PSA and:
yeah
This is kind of a good and bad thing. In a way it is humorous and all in good fun. However, nothing ever stays sacred in the phandom it is also the way voldy has become so widespread. Whoever leaked the voldy video after its initial leak is due to this very reason.
:cactus:
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kuensukki wrote:I just caught up and in surprised many are so passionate about the onion thing. Everyone is subjected to their own opinion but honestly what he's found isn't different to what fans do on a daily basis. Have you read the comments under his tweets that are spammed or read the Dan imagines. He has always been sexualized and honestly what onions doing isn't different in my eyes. Hell at times in the past Dan used to encourage being sexualized by posting pictures online, making racy comments, even doing the "sexy end screen dance". Dans also guilty of sexual ozone men and making comments that then get spammed to said guys insta and twitter.

People use Dan all the time because he's popular and being a very loud and protective following with him. Following protective fandom= shitstorm even though this is just onion being onion.

I understand that onion has a following and reaches a larger audience then dans sexual twitter comments but to me it seems like a overreaction that people were spamming it and that he then addressed how people could like them and him. Onion to me is gross because he was accused of rape and other charges not because he decided to make fanart that sexualized Dan. Maybe because I think it's how he's always been so I don't see any difference in his behavior except that now it involves Dan That's something so many people already do yet everyone is suddenly so sensitive towards it!? So yea I don't really consider this is something that should be given so much attention to but sadly that's exactly what's happened!

Again this is a personal OPINION please don't come after me with a pitchfork
I'm not gonna bring a pitchfork, maybe just a thermos with tea, is that okay? :platonic:

That being said I disagree on a spectrum (does that make sense? like I disagree but not 100%). The situation is kind of like... an underwear model posing for a brand in her bra and pants and thousands of people see it, and then the same model being photographed in her personal underwear by a creep lurking near a bush. Or being seen in a bikini and being okay but being embarrassed if someone walks in on you while you're changing. It's the same body and exposure. The difference is that you consent to one situation and don't consent to another.


In the end of the day, fanart is fanart. Who, what or how can vary in creepiness of course, but in general it's just smutty art. The difference is that (up to a reasonable limit) Dan has been okay with the idea of phanart of or he just finds it funny and moves on with his life. Because he realises he made a brand of this and his behaviour in his videos. To my knowledge he's not spoken out against phanart specifically- even though I'm sure they could cross some lines there too.

But it's different when you have no association with onion, you don't even want to have one. You live your life and he lives his. Then he pulls off this action and suddenly people are taking your body and life and initiating these images that you never wanted to be a part of. It's an emotional violation. People aren't caring about what you think or want. Fans aren't thinking that maybe Dan doesn't want this. They think this is hilarious and are going to disgusting measures to spread the word and even just calling it a "joke" on twitter and such.



I'm kind of meh on sexy fan art, personally speaking. It doesn't do it for me to be shown to public. Draw your own shiz and explore yourself, you do you. But when it involves real life people it gets really weird for me because deppy aren't fictional characters. I just don't get it, tbh. But that's why I don't draw it in the first place, I do me

Sorry for the waffle, have glitch!Dan

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bluntedclaws
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I'm actually starting to wonder if Dan even knew about Onion's request during his ls. Obviously, he dislikes onion and wanted us to know that he was frustrated at people in the chat for spamming but it's entirely possible that he was unaware of the context for the spam.
He honestly has never seemed to have any problem with fans sexualizing him. From what I've seen of him he usually finds it hilarious. Remember "penises and Dan"? I know onion is technically a peer rather than a fan but I can't imagine dan would care that much.
Last edited by bluntedclaws on Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SquishPhan
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000dia000 wrote:To conclude my two cents on the topic of #dirtybitches I think we should all unanimously agree on "No, Dan, don't use that language, it is inappropriate, for the love of sweet holy jesus, stop"

000dia000 wrote:I digress, Daniel yesterday stated the fact that the phandom spam youtube videos (u dont say?) particularly music related things, such as "Can you imagine Dan playing this for Phil?" and low and behold on RadioHead's "True Love Waits":
Image
While the comments were made in good humor, they make a good point in that the phandom often acts under The Streisand Effect, "the phenomenon whereby an attempt to hide, remove, or censor a piece of information has the unintended consequence of publicizing the information more widely, usually facilitated by the Internet."
A recent widespread example of this was the memeificiation of our Lord and saviour Harambe (RIP) with the "dicks out for Harambe" expression plastered all over the internet, much to the horror of the Cincinnati Zoo who asked for respect Harambe after he was murdered died.
A recent example is a Tumblr video that Pewdiepie did where he said he would drink every time he saw Dan or Phil in his tag. To make a long story short, the Phandom made a PSA and:
yeah
This is kind of a good and bad thing. In a way it is humorous and all in good fun. However, nothing ever stays sacred in the phandom it is also the way voldy has become so widespread. Whoever leaked the voldy video after its initial leak is due to this very reason.
Yeah agreed.
I also don't really see people stop spamming anytime soon. Just have to accept it and move on.
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bluntedclaws wrote:
(By the way, if you've not seen penisesanddan on tumblr and you're amused by mild sexual deviance you should check it out. It's truly bizarre)
I'd like to mention that the orginial tumblr account has been deleted and I wouldn't reccomend going to it as the owner of the URL now is a spam porn poster! I just found that out the hard way. :?
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confusedpanda wrote:
bluntedclaws wrote:
(By the way, if you've not seen penisesanddan on tumblr and you're amused by mild sexual deviance you should check it out. It's truly bizarre)
I'd like to mention that the orginial tumblr account has been deleted and I wouldn't reccomend going to it as the owner of the URL now is a spam porn poster! I just found that out the hard way. :?
Oops LOL!
Aww. It's a shame it's gone now. It was hilarious.
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swofro wrote:This "article" is amusing

http://www.andpop.com/2016/09/08/dan-phil/
That's some cutting edge journalism right there.
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bluntedclaws wrote:
swofro wrote:This "article" is amusing

http://www.andpop.com/2016/09/08/dan-phil/
That's some cutting edge journalism right there.
:facepalm: is about as far as I can compute this stuff tbh.
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bluntedclaws wrote:
swofro wrote:This "article" is amusing

http://www.andpop.com/2016/09/08/dan-phil/
That's some cutting edge journalism right there.
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Although I mostly agree with you all, my two cents on the "bye bitches" conversation are going to be...his fans are not pre-schoolers nor sweet girls studying in a catholic boarding school. His fans write smut of him fucking a hamster and draw him being fucked by some tentacles. No need for the Internet here to gasp and clutch its pearl necklace.
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bluntedclaws wrote:
swofro wrote:This "article" is amusing

http://www.andpop.com/2016/09/08/dan-phil/
That's some cutting edge journalism right there.
Yup.
The friendship that started when they subscribed to one another
I mean really?
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I genuinely don't give a rats ass whether a man, straight or not, jokingly calls me a bitch. IRL I would like it to be someone who I at least know a little better, but that's all. I don't consider bitch a slur either so yeah. idc. If you do, that's fine and your feelings are valid and should be expressed of course. Yadda yadda different people find things offensive yadda yadda being offended doesn't equal being right and not being offended doesn't either yadda yadda does any of this really matter the answer is probably no.
kuensukki wrote:I just caught up and in surprised many are so passionate about the onion thing. Everyone is subjected to their own opinion but honestly what he's found isn't different to what fans do on a daily basis. Have you read the comments under his tweets that are spammed or read the Dan imagines. He has always been sexualized and honestly what onions doing isn't different in my eyes. Hell at times in the past Dan used to encourage being sexualized by posting pictures online, making racy comments, even doing the "sexy end screen dance". Dans also guilty of sexual ozone men and making comments that then get spammed to said guys insta and twitter.

People use Dan all the time because he's popular and being a very loud and protective following with him. Following protective fandom= shitstorm even though this is just onion being onion.

I understand that onion has a following and reaches a larger audience then dans sexual twitter comments but to me it seems like a overreaction that people were spamming it and that he then addressed how people could like them and him. Onion to me is gross because he was accused of rape and other charges not because he decided to make fanart that sexualized Dan. Maybe because I think it's how he's always been so I don't see any difference in his behavior except that now it involves Dan That's something so many people already do yet everyone is suddenly so sensitive towards it!? So yea I don't really consider this is something that should be given so much attention to but sadly that's exactly what's happened!

Again this is a personal OPINION please don't come after me with a pitchfork
I kinda agree yeah. I hate Onion and his comments towards Dan because I know what kind of person he is. But his comments itself aren't that strange compared to stuff Dan gets in his Twitter replies. Now Onion is not an actual fan and just a troll who wants attention so it's different than a 14 year old girl who doesn't know what half the shit she types even is... but I do think it's reason why there's also positivity coming from the phandom towards Onion. Extreme sexual comments towards celebrities are currently normal among Stan Twitter, so they kinda see him as one of them because they don't know how fucked up he really is. They genuinely think he wants Dan's attention because he likes him. Honestly it's those kids who need to be protected, not Dan. I really don't think he's losing sleep over that scumbag.
swofro wrote:This "article" is amusing

http://www.andpop.com/2016/09/08/dan-phil/
What kind of BuzzFeed ripoff is this :')
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