[offtopic]I always miss there liveshows now, when i was at school i would try to wake up at 2am but i could only catch catch a glimpse of it as phil reads out names to say goodbye, dans liveshows was easier 4am he was funny but seemed vunerable at the same time. What i would do to just talk to him, but when i try to ask a question i feel like im just another leaf in an autumn ground as he passes through knocking some over into the air as the rest of us rots. but now that i could see them only on replays i feel worst i could see the disconect clearly the illusion is broken i often try to compensate by tweeting them some anime recommendations that i think that they have not seen before and is also good as penance and also as a gift as its the only thing i can give them but in the end i know that again its pointless. And so again i will wait to see the replays pretending that it was live a mad man pretending he has freinds.[/offtopic]
How happy is the blameless vestal's lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each pray'r accepted, and each wish resign'd.
melon lord wrote:
I actually wonder where Dan gets most criticism from. I mean, where does he source it? We know he's a stalker but most of tumblr either hates you or loves you, nothing in between. Is it the Youtube comments? Cause the comments... yeah Most of them are unfunny overdone "jokes" or screaming in caps lock about a thing they all like or "SAME"
I've been wondering about the same thing. Tumblr hypes everythign they do and youtube comments are just a big mess. (I didn't know for years that there were actually reasonable people discussing and critizising them before I found this place)
So, how deep does the lurking go, Mr Howell?
sinnamonrollphil wrote:So here's the thing. I get why dan's frustrated to an extent but at the same time I feel like it's a slight problem with taking criticism? Like we've had NINE dinof videos this entire year, and six tatinof ones. and like, that's fine, im proud of him and everything, but i think it's valid to say 'you promised us you'd be back to being a youtuber and making content after tour was over, and tour has been over for months?'
also, i dont mind all the #promo for tatinof and im proud of them and everything but i get the feeling they forget they have side channels? like that VR footage should have been on the side channel. the cake scene should go there as well. its not really promo and its not really a dinof video, its something extra that should go up on the side channel imo (granted im not sure if part of it is b/c youtube red has control over that stuff, they very well could)
idk i just feel like dan was really sassy tonight and usually he walks a fine line between being funny/serious and asshole/serious and tonight felt like he was walking that line very very close to the edge
Good points! I agree that though it's understandable why Dan is frustrated (I would be too), he also needs to take into account why people are annoyed with all the tatinof spon. But I do think one thing people tend to forget is that when you watch a YouTuber like Dan or Phil, their content tends the reflect the major things that go on in their lives. And because tatinof has consumed so much of their lives lately, we tend to get stuck with just seeing that for a long period of time. And also maybe YouTube is making them do more promo's for the movies than they normally would like to do? But all that being said I do think Dan should try and be a little more understanding as to why people are annoyed. (Also I swear when he said he might not upload the cake scene because people were complaining, like Dan don't even joke about that, I need that scene in my life, and your saltiness can't take it away from me)
nephilimcat wrote:I think both sides need to understand each other.
People should think before they complain because let's be real, they complain about literally everything. When Dan makes a regular video, it's too much on brand. When he makes tatinof videos, it's too much #spon content. When he makes no videos, it's not enough. When he tries something new, it's not on brand enough. Maybe thinking before complaining would be helpful. But oh well, we are humans, we love to complain.
I think Dan took it way too personal because tatinof means a lot to him. But he should've expected that not everyone would be thrilled. Hell, I loved tatinof but I'd still like to have a normal video from him or Phil. I'm so glad they have the gaming channel, what would I do without it?
So yeah, can we all just be a bit more understanding? Stupid question, as if that will happen.
i hope you guys don't think i was trying to complain about dan, cause im not trying to complain. i honestly dont mind the #promo stuff, i just think it's a little hard for me to be 100% on dan's side when i get why some people are saying stuff like that, i think the criticism is valid but it's his prerogative to do whatever he wants.
and i think that's the thing. dan needs to just do whatever he wants? like people are going to be mad no matter what he does. more tatinof? people are mad. isg? people are mad. new style not stereotypical dinof? people are mad. There are so many people watching that someone is always gonna be mad about something, so it's not really helpful to get upset about it and make it a 'thing' and instead just do whatever you want?
like obvioulsy im not trying to be 'that guy' who takes everything literally, i understand that most of the time dan is joking even if what he's joking about he actually means seriously behind the joke, i just feel like tonight felt like he was towing past it being a joke and more like (dare i say it) 2012 dan when he was genuinely pissed off at fans and just kind of writing everything off as stupid, and i think that's a dangerous line for him to be on in 2016
Dan seemed to be in an odd mood. He should really stop reading yotube comments and tumblr. He's VERY SENSITIVE. I understand that he is upset coz they worked hard for those videos and his viewers weren't interested. But he can't blame his audience because it's been almost 2yrs since TABINOF/TATINOF. Can we all please move on?
I just realized that his liveshows annoy me most of the time not only coz I am not a big fan of his personality but also because of the comments. (Kids, get a life.) He responds to what people are saying especially the negative remarks. Tsk. It's like watching 2012-2013 ls. He's been with Phil for 7yrs but he's still not good at masking his emotions.
TATINOF: Y U need to mention places that you can't go? I appreciate the effort but we were not expecting anything. Now I feel sad. I really want to see Phi irl before my country crash and burn. I cannot help with the huge concert halls but I know people who run theaters. Should I contact them?? (Jk. I really want the rebranding asap.)
sinnamonrollphil wrote:
i hope you guys don't think i was trying to complain about dan, cause im not trying to complain. i honestly dont mind the #promo stuff, i just think it's a little hard for me to be 100% on dan's side when i get why some people are saying stuff like that, i think the criticism is valid but it's his prerogative to do whatever he wants.
and i think that's the thing. dan needs to just do whatever he wants? like people are going to be mad no matter what he does. more tatinof? people are mad. isg? people are mad. new style not stereotypical dinof? people are mad. There are so many people watching that someone is always gonna be mad about something, so it's not really helpful to get upset about it and make it a 'thing' and instead just do whatever you want?
like obvioulsy im not trying to be 'that guy' who takes everything literally, i understand that most of the time dan is joking even if what he's joking about he actually means seriously behind the joke, i just feel like tonight felt like he was towing past it being a joke and more like (dare i say it) 2012 dan when he was genuinely pissed off at fans and just kind of writing everything off as stupid, and i think that's a dangerous line for him to be on in 2016
No don't worry I totally get what you meant! And I really agree with the parts I bolded
violet-writer wrote:He was a bit pissy today especially when calling the chat losers. I know that is just his personality.. but its still rude and annoying.
Oh god I lived for the sass today lol. I especially loved when he was talking about the people commenting about his Tatinof content. I thought that was really rude of his "fans" to be critical of his hard work like that so I was all about it ahahaha.
I critique everything (which obviously, it's my opinion and therefor totally arbitrary but valid) Deppy deserve criticism! Because constructive criticism helps facilitate perfection.
They clearly worked hard on TATINOF, but that doesn't mean it was a good production. I personally thought it was good. I praised it because it was their first live show. And many aspects deserved praise (engaging the audience, understanding the audience, fit well with their brand). Parts of the show weren't as well received because they weren't.. good. LOL. But anyways, discussion shouldn't be considered hate, esp. because it was clearly directive (upload more DINOF) and valid (he hasn't in a long while). Creators should respect the fans* right to, well, complain.
fans= I appreciate him saying he doesn't want to call his followers fans, because as the creator it does remove the pedestal a bit, and the idolization (which weirds me out), but personally the word doesn't offend me.
(note: this seems v intense/negative, just wanted to be clear n coherent!)
when you first saw her-beauty, the dream- the human vortex of your life- or him - did you stop, and stand in the crisp air, breathing like a tree? did you change your life?
I think equating a sassy liveshow to genuinely angry comments/time period from four years ago is a little much. I'm not really seeing much difference between this show and ones from previous weeks (and months). Expressing frustration at people complaining at him about his content (that means a lot to him at least) isn't being mean to fans? Sure, Dan's sensitive. But clearly so are a lot of the people watching him. He probably should avoid comments if every single thing he ever says is so picked apart, but then he'll get criticized for avoiding criticism (as if he isn't already).. The internet's so fun.
violet-writer wrote:Creators should respect the fans* right to, well, complain.
fancybum wrote:I think equating a sassy liveshow to genuinely angry comments/time period from four years ago is a little much. I'm not really seeing much difference between this show and ones from previous weeks (and months). Expressing frustration at people complaining at him about his content (that means a lot to him at least) isn't being mean to fans? Sure, Dan's sensitive. But clearly so are a lot of the people watching him. He probably should avoid comments if every single thing he ever says is so picked apart, but then he'll get criticized for avoiding criticism (as if he isn't already).. The internet's so fun.
violet-writer wrote:Creators should respect the fans* right to, well, complain.
As we should respect his.
We should, but I don't think these things negate each-other. And I don't think the fan-creator relationship is so equal, in that.. well, he is the one people idolize. There is one Dan Howell and millions of fans (or wtv.), it will never be an easy back and forth conversation, but if majority of the people are complaining (I dont like this word! but i don't know the right word.. only in my other language) then he should listen. And Dan considers himself a very high-brow art appreciator, so you'd think he would understand where we're coming from. (He spends so much of his liveshow talking about media, which is interesting! but shows he likes a certain.. quality of work, which to me makes him more vulnerable to criticism)
when you first saw her-beauty, the dream- the human vortex of your life- or him - did you stop, and stand in the crisp air, breathing like a tree? did you change your life?
JoeAverage wrote:
-Also there should be a special bingo for the "random phil mentions" (like phils opinion on this, phil losing or winning on sth, phil liking or hating sth, phil making him watch sth, a phil joke, phil weird occurrence) because him talking about phil's sth is already 50/60 % of his ls lately.
cute!! (also really enjoying reading your posts haha )
Aww thanks violet-writer you rock!!!
Artdefines06 wrote:
I'm thinking I want to ask Phil if he is still interested in film making, and if we can ever hope to see short horror/sci-fi films from him again. The last one I can think of was the james bond/muse music video, and that was a long time ago (and not really serious the way tape 6 was) I want a scary movie from Phil!
Pls please Plsssss do!!! I need phil to know that we appreciate and miss his old creepy syle so much, and I bet him being the major Stephen King fan that he is, he probs miss it too. Maybe he could collaboration with pj in a scary story with youtube red or just in a normal chanel, idk, I just know I want phil to know his creativity is very much appreciated! !!
Bassoonage wrote:
2. Every time Dan says he's shook I think of this edit I found.
omg thank u
-on the topic of Dans content in Dinof I think he should do what ever the f he wants, it's HIS channel afterall, also idc. (But Pls learn how to either ignore bad comments or take creative criticism cos it's mostly affecting you)
violet-writer wrote:He was a bit pissy today especially when calling the chat losers. I know that is just his personality.. but its still rude and annoying.
Oh god I lived for the sass today lol. I especially loved when he was talking about the people commenting about his Tatinof content. I thought that was really rude of his "fans" to be critical of his hard work like that so I was all about it ahahaha.
I critique everything (which obviously, it's my opinion and therefor totally arbitrary but valid Deppy deserve criticism! Because constructive criticism helps facilitate perfection.
They clearly worked hard on TATINOF, but that doesn't mean it was a good production. I personally thought it was good. I praised it because it was their first live show. And many aspects deserved praise (engaging the audience, understanding the audience, fit well with their brand). Parts of the show weren't as well received because they weren't.. good. LOL. But anyways, discussion shouldn't be considered hate, esp. because it was clearly directive (upload more DINOF) and valid (he hasn't in a long while). Creators should respect the fans* right to, well, complain.
fans= I appreciate him saying he doesn't want to call his followers fans, because as the creator it does remove the pedestal a bit, and the idolization (which weirds me out), but personally the word doesn't offend me.
(note: this seems v intense/negative, just wanted to be clear n coherent!)
I don't have much to add, but I really agree with the bolded parts! I get why it might be hard to hear, but it's good to think critically about even really good things. (Edited because I screwed up the formatting on mobile lol)
melon lord wrote:
I actually wonder where Dan gets most criticism from. I mean, where does he source it? We know he's a stalker but most of tumblr either hates you or loves you, nothing in between. Is it the Youtube comments? Cause the comments... yeah Most of them are unfunny overdone "jokes" or screaming in caps lock about a thing they all like or "SAME"
I've been wondering about the same thing. Tumblr hypes everythign they do and youtube comments are just a big mess. (I didn't know for years that there were actually reasonable people discussing and critizising them before I found this place)
So, how deep does the lurking go, Mr Howell?
not saying he stalks this forum but let's be real
violet-writer wrote:
fans= I appreciate him saying he doesn't want to call his followers fans, because as the creator it does remove the pedestal a bit, and the idolization (which weirds me out), but personally the word doesn't offend me.
so i've had this (controversial?) opinion for a while, but i really feel like its gotten to the point where it's hard to say dan doesn't have 'fans'. like by all definitions of the word, he has what anyone would call 'fans', and that's not necessarily a negative thing, but it's the truth. maybe he doesn't want to admit to it because he sees it as negative? maybe he doesnt want to call it that because he doesn't want to encourage 'fan culture'? but im finding it hard to believe dan (or phil) dont view us as 'fans' when they can barely leave their house without people stopping them on the street for selfies.
at the end of the day, the 'dan and phil' brand encourages screaming and emotional responses and people obsessing, it encourages 'fans' and 'fan culture'. even if dan doesn't want to call it that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. idk just thoughts. like dan can call it whatever he wants but at the end of the day, we are 'fans' regardless of whether we personally view it as a positive or negative, and i guess he's smart to hedge his bets and be neutral there and distance himself from the 'fan' verbiage
i am team fucking done with tatinof and if that gets on dan's nerves idgaf, he can and will do whatever the fuck he wants, i'm gonna be as annoyed and bored of it as i want,what a shock people can have conflicting opinions and the world didn't end, i'm surprised this is a conversation that is happening
it also rubs me the wrong way when people generalize the audience, of course the audience complains about everything, because the audience are millions of people with different opinions??? i??? what???
re dan liveshow: he was in his classic weird/done mood, loved it, those are my favorite liveshows, although i wanted to play his own 'get over it' clip to him every time he brought up people being tired of tatinof
Dan Howell wrote:'[someone] just sent me a message saying 'Phil'..... same'
Dan's ls. I came in late so I had to go back and watch the beginning but now that I've seen it:
- Many people have already mentioned him being pissy/sassy/etc. He was giving off crabstickz-level idgaf vibes, that's for sure. Honestly, he just seems a bit stressed, probably because spooky week means shooting and editing five videos on top of whatever else they're doing this week to get ready for DAPGO, and then they're rolling into a pretty intensive schedule until December. They're facing a lot of demands over the next several weeks but they certainly know how to keep each other's head in the game by now.
- The cirque AU, love that he was so game. Might have to check out the resulting story!
- Just shifting topics and talking about Dr. Strange, he didn’t even do his generic male name thing, just threw it out there like the no fucks Daniel that he is today.
- His gesture and facial expression when he was like “Dan and Phil gig”
- Between the slip ups during the PSL part, the “don’t have time for you losers” rant, the arm-stretchy thing when announcing Euro TATINOF, and the chocolate ball confusion are we sure this is not Phil in a Dan suit? It is spooky week after all (imagine, though, if in some alternate universe where it was entirely possible they took each other’s places to let off steam and let parts of their personality that they usually hide shine).
- OK, who are these “people” on his channel he keeps ribbing? Whoever it is, they prompted him to do multiple callouts in one ls, so they must’ve struck a nerve. I hope whatever was said it wasn’t disrespectful to them and the work they put into TATINOF. Update: OK, I went to look at the comments on the 360 video and there’s one thread talking about his old videos. The conversation itself isn’t particularly rude, poor forum choice posting it on his video instead of on another site (such as here ) perhaps. That being said, if this is how he reacts to that one thread, there’s no way in heck he makes a habit out of lurking or every ls would be a sixty nine minute reactive rant. Perhaps in a moment of weakness he peeked and then gave no fucks about responding. I'd reeeeally hate to go there but the whole "well fine then you're not getting the cake scene" kinda reminded me of the first part of this (I mean...he even got all up in the camera):
Ooooohhh, I can't wait to watch the ls later tonight after I get home. [Tuesday is movie night: $6 admission, $5 supersize-popcorn, and stadium seating! Too awesome of a deal to pass up.] Sassy & asshole Dan, a 2fer! I really do love the guy, ngl.
Congrats to the lucky Europeans who will get to see the show in person - it is a lot of fun, not really (too) cringey*. Don't miss it if you have a way to attend, you won't regret it. Don't worry if you have unenlightened friends - you can go alone (just pretend/tell everyone that you are a, a parent; b, an older sibling sent to keep an eye on your sis or bro; or c, you don't want to sit with your tragically unhip parent or older sib.
* I am trying to expunge the c-word from my vocabulary, but I thought its usage here was appropriate this one.last.time.
starlight-still wrote:Dan's ls. I came in late so I had to go back and watch the beginning but now that I've seen it:
- Many people have already mentioned him being pissy/sassy/etc. He was giving off crabstickz-level idgaf vibes, that's for sure. Honestly, he just seems a bit stressed, probably because spooky week means shooting and editing five videos on top of whatever else they're doing this week to get ready for DAPGO, and then they're rolling into a pretty intensive schedule until December. They're facing a lot of demands over the next several weeks but they certainly know how to keep each other's head in the game by now.
- The cirque AU, love that he was so game. Might have to check out the resulting story!
- Just shifting topics and talking about Dr. Strange, he didn’t even do his generic male name thing, just threw it out there like the no fucks Daniel that he is today.
- His gesture and facial expression when he was like “Dan and Phil gig”
- Between the slip ups during the PSL part, the “don’t have time for you losers” rant, the arm-stretchy thing when announcing Euro TATINOF, and the chocolate ball confusion are we sure this is not Phil in a Dan suit? It is spooky week after all (imagine, though, if in some alternate universe where it was entirely possible they took each other’s places to let off steam and let parts of their personality that they usually hide shine).
- OK, who are these “people” on his channel he keeps ribbing? Whoever it is, they prompted him to do multiple callouts in one ls, so they must’ve struck a nerve. I hope whatever was said it wasn’t disrespectful to them and the work they put into TATINOF. Update: OK, I went to look at the comments on the 360 video and there’s one thread talking about his old videos. The conversation itself isn’t particularly rude, poor forum choice posting it on his video instead of on another site (such as here ) perhaps. That being said, if this is how he reacts to that one thread, there’s no way in heck he makes a habit out of lurking or every ls would be a sixty nine minute reactive rant. Perhaps in a moment of weakness he peeked and then gave no fucks about responding. I'd reeeeally hate to go there but the whole "well fine then you're not getting the cake scene" kinda reminded me of the first part of this (I mean...he even got all up in the camera):
THAT VIDEO I AM CRYING why is everything about it actually dan amazing
Most of them are unfunny overdone "jokes" or screaming in caps lock about a thing they all like or "SAME"
) perhaps. That being said, if this is how he reacts to that one thread, there’s no way in heck he makes a habit out of lurking or every ls would be a sixty nine minute reactive rant. Perhaps in a moment of weakness he peeked and then gave no fucks about responding. I'd reeeeally hate to go there but the whole "well fine then you're not getting the cake scene" kinda reminded me of the first part of this (I mean...he even got all up in the camera): 
