Dan & Phil Part 30: I want your ass

[Birdie]

Also i am sorry but even without knowing exactly what it is, i am shocked they couldn't figure out it was a 1st Nations or Native monument. It is not like it is completely obscure either, it was the visual for the Vancouver olympics etc. Tbh so much for Dan's "cultured" self but just as Phil's video with Hazel or Dan's geography problems, it shows they are quite ignorant on certain topics.

I'm not trying to defend the guys in any way with this post. I agree that kind of ignorance is hurtful and they should've done some research. The fact that no one checked on this kind of irks me a lot. I mean, it's not just the guys, it's also everyone involved with making the book. Where were the people at the publishing house who usually supervise a book? Correctors, editors etc. The fact that apparently no one thought of double checking what this is makes me quite angry since it showcases a bigger ignorance than only on Dan and Phil's part. Anyways, I agree with everyone pointing out how this is hurtful and just shouldn't have happened.

Anyways, what I wanted to point out though was that assuming they should have just known this was a First Nations monument kinda doesn't cut it. That's just a bit America centric and I don't think it's that easy. We don't have native peoples comparable to Native Americans in big parts of Europe, certainly not in Britain (there are some in Scandinavia and Russia and other countries but that feels very far away when you're living on an island). So knowledge about First Nations cultures isn't really far spread here and I personally think that's okay (since I'm pretty sure most Americans didn't know about the Norwegian Sami people before "Frozen" came out either and that's okay too, you just can't know about all cultures world wide). When I first saw the picture in DAPGO my mind also went straight to Stonehenge and to the dolmen graves and tors around the countryside here. Not because I'm ignorant of other cultures but because it's something I recognise from my own culture so my mind went straight to that.

So I wouldn't say not knowing it was a First Nations monument is ignorant and makes Dan and Phil uncultured. What's ignorant is the fact they didn't even double check it. What's ignorant is how no one, neither the guys nor anyone at the publisher's decided to check the "weird, creepy" stone thing out before putting the book out like this. I mean, wouldn't you have done that, even if just out of interest? I would have. That strikes me as weird here, no one even bothering to find out what the monument was and it leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth to be quite honest. If you go to another country and include landmarks and stuff in your book, at least double check what it is if you don't know. That's a matter of respect in my opinion. I mean, if an American put out a book calling Stonehenge a weird, creepy stone thing people around here would be rolling their eyes so hard, they'd fall out. It's just kinda incomprehensible to me that literally no one thought it was a good idea to check what the monument actually was.

Anyways, I think it's important to discuss this and also maybe bring it to Dan and Phil's attention but maybe whilst keeping in mind that they have no common grounds with the history of American native peoples since they are in fact not American. As I said, we don't have much contact with American history and the history of the First Nations here in Europe (just like Americans might not have much contact with the history of the native peoples of Europe) but the book was also published in the US and Canada and at that point at the very least someone should have checked this. It's just another example of a native peoples' culture being ignored and called weird and creepy and that's not okay at all.

PS: This is my first post on here, oh dear. I've been lurking for weeks now. I promise my next post will be less... like this one.

[mermaid blood]

basically repeating great contributions already but you know i can't resist a controversial topic. i'm on vacation in Canada as I type this, and I also balked for a second at that page.

it isn't Dan and Phil's responsibility to identify and be sensitive to everything they pass in a foreign country (what tourist can possibly achieve that?).
but it is their responsibility to type 'public art, stack of rocks in vague shape of human, Toronto area' into google search bar (which i did last week! but about the English Bay one in Vancouver. it took me...3 seconds?). and then alter the caption to:

Dan: we thought this was slightly creepy in person, turns out it has important indigenous significance! pretty cool.
Phil: kind of like Stonehenge but modern.

when they failed to do that, it's the responsibility of the Canadian publisher arm who looks over the book to snag it. like they managed to do with every alcohol mention in the US version. I'm sorry, but some cocktails and a fucking liquor bottle birthday present in the context of men in their twenties is not as important as white Canadian teenagers being like, 'haha yeah it is fkn creepy! d&p agree with me!"'.... FAIL.

but they're human; I do indeed blame the many many people sinking money into this more than i blame them. if i were them i'd be shitty at their publishers and i'd address it quickly in a liveshow or tweet down the road. easy!

Ok so I just finished DAPGO and this is going to be... a lot. These are just some gross thoughts I've been having for a while now that basically exploded after getting through the book.

Dan and Phil. They're. So. Happy. And they love tabinof so much, they loved tatinof so much, proud af, time of their lives, yada yada. And IMO (nonbelievers run away now, shoo), one gigantic part of why they loved it all so much is that it gave them an 'excuse' if you will to be glued to each other at all times and not feel any need to hide it. No need to explain it. Joining together to work on something that involves them both and that for two years would basically take over their lives is self-explanatory for joint travel, constant collaboration, etc. Living in each other's pockets to an extent we had never before seen, only because, leading up to that point, they felt the need to downplay it even though it has always been the case. Or attempt to downplay it. All that time spent insisting they're not a double act, they're not joined at the hip. But IMO that unease with being lumped together came not only from the (perfectly understandable at that time/any time) desire to establish their own individual identities on their separate channels (for Dan especially to feel like he earned his stripes on his own, not just because Phil gave him a headstart on YT), but ALSO from the desire to keep genuine scrutiny away from their irl relationship (however defined). So in the past we have all the stilted, awkward interactions, anvilicious comments intended to shut down perceptions they didn't want people to have... just clumsiness and plain old defensiveness.

But then came the gaming channel, leading to... the book! The tour! Reasons, airtight professional reasons to be together all the time, no need to qualify anything with 'this is my flatmate and he's here because X or Y'. Instead, 'this is my co-host on this channel, this is my co-author of this thing I love, we're doing a stage show to build on our existing joint work together'. Nice and clear reasons to explain, without really having to explain, why they're together 24/7. And there had to have been relief in that, it was an excuse to talk more openly about doing E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G. together, bc work. We didn't even have that much of an idea before this year just how involved they are in each other's videos (meaning non-joint-spon, non-gaming, just their individual videos. They're all up in there at all times), the surprises of 'oh he helped film? oh he suggested that? etc' because they started opening up more about those details. Because whatever, it's work. And they could finally talk about it and finally give less fucks because they wrote a damn book together, they're doing a stage show together, who cares if they're editing the other's YT videos on top of everything else? They went next level and the book/tour allowed them to do that. They're disgustingly happy together and the book/tour allowed them to show it in all its hideous beauty. They're having fun with work!

They could feel free to post cute pics under the cover of book/tour hype/promo. Things they maybe could have been doing all along if they weren't so protective of their private lives and so worried about people taking little fun moments and linking them to 'phan', getting too real, crossing lines, all of that. Now OBV people still make those links, they literally cannot be stopped, but at least from an outside and more objective view, they're just 2 dudes promoting their joint content, nothing to see here, keep walking. And that there's the thing, that's why people just tossing around 'fanservice' (and in most cases not even as criticism, I know) gets to me so often; because from my perspective (and only mine yeah I need to chill out sometimes when other people differ I KNOW) it's a service to themselves (lol).

So TO ME it feels shitty to see two people being more comfortable with themselves and with each other, being more open, less guarded, less careful at all times, less afraid even, and just reduce it to 'playing up to what the viewers want'. Especially looking back at everything leading up to this point in 2016- their early defensiveness (mostly Dan's) and pushing back at just giving into viewer demands and all the resentment there and then. Being happy and playful and sure, domestic, with each other now as fanservice, and not because that's what comes naturally to them and they don't care to hide it anymore, doesn't really work for me.

Fanservice is Dan "giving in" to viewer demand and playing Undertale on the gaming channel. And he's complained about it, and made guilt-mongering remarks about it: he wanted to play it on his own to properly appreciate the story, but you damn viewers wouldn't shut up, so fine, he's playing it and selling his integrity blah blah blah. 'Fanservice Dan' is a whiny brat (still love him but. come. on.). How he acts with Phil is not a surrender to demanding viewers; they didn't get worn down over the years to the point of giving in. They've just eased into being more public with what they already were and are in private: a unit. The fact that fans like it isn't why they're doing it (which is not to say they're not aware that fans like it, they're not idiots), they're doing it because they like it. They show each other off and talk each other up, sometimes so much it's like they're making up for lost time.

There's still that one area that seems mostly off-limits though: physical intimacy. Man, was I looking for a hug in DAPGO like it was a drop of water in the desert. Anything. We got Phil's fingers in Dan's mouth, sure. Them sitting on top of each other all over the world because they don't understand the concept of personal space. But no hugs, not even a lazy arm resting over a shoulder. If irl they give each other those sad and limp M&G hugs, it would be the ultimate cosmic joke. We just really don't know.

Public Touching (yes, there's an L in there pervs): that's still a bridge too far for them 97% of the time. So the rare instances stand out, like the joyful attack in Impossible Quiz 2. Noted, adored by all. Then it pops up in the preview screen for their next gaming video and from the darkness comes the unholy shrieking of "Fanservice!11". I imagine Dan and Phil shrugging at each other, "I just thought it was cute," in response. What kind of shit like that have they just gotten used to cutting out of videos, how practiced have they become over the years in physically restraining themselves and backing off what their instincts are itching for them to do? Always overly aware of the eyes on the other side of the camera and never fully at ease with them:


Now they let the odd one slip by, happily. They're each other's biggest fans and it's never been more apparent than this last year. Ummm which I guess brings me to the end of this rant review.

tldr: I loved DAPGO. Did you read this whole thing? Sort your life out.

thank fucking god someone had the energy to break it down; as someone actually in the closet myself it is EXHAUSTING to have all the intricacies of their behaviour explained to me by (usually) straight (or out, and bitter) posters year after year. it's a complex subject with a lot of shades of grey, but if someone has that niggling feeling of fanservice i wish they would take 2 seconds to attempt to put themselves in someone else's shoes before preparing a rebuttle of all the ways Dan and Phil's behaviour doesn't match their own (and why would it?!)

[SquishPhan]

It’s not that I don’t care about the plight that indigenous people face every day, because I do. How can I not having spend 10 weeks living among them? I just think that people are making a very big deal out of something that isn’t. Feels like you can’t say anything these days without people getting mad about something, and I find it tiring. Glad I’m not a public figure.

I don’t think that by talking about this on a forum about them is actually helping to educate them, but that is just me.

I do also hope all those so outraged by this, are actively helping native people in some way. Such as by donating money, time or stuff to help them out with the protest at Standing Rock or something else.

[DryCereal]

It’s not that I don’t care about the plight that indigenous people face every day, because I do. How can I not having spend 10 weeks living among them? I just think that people are making a very big deal out of something that isn’t. Feels like you can’t say anything these days without people getting mad about something, and I find it tiring. Glad I’m not a public figure.

[Catallena]

My fat holier than thou ass isn't gonna bother anymore but is just gonna point out for a quick sec that Dan is in the red with subs for today.



It doesn't mean much, like Phil was randomly in the red earlier this week an he hasn't even posted in 2 weeks. But considering #DAPGOOSE was uploaded yesterday, these numbers are very telling in that some people are fed up with the amount content for books and tours.

I wonder if Phil has pre-filmed anything or is gonna film something in Florida because his last three videos were literally just documentary related things, the one before that was for DAPGO and now there's been nothing for more than two weeks... At least Dan had the baking video this week.

[Birdie]

It might not educate Dan and Phil personally but it does educate some people who read here. Not just members of the forum but also the many, many lurkers who might not have known about it. I think educating someone is also a form of support of ethnic minorities. People using their platforms to spread the word and get rid of misconceptions about different cultures, that's a way of supporting people too, especially when you don't have a lot of money yourself. That's what's so dissapointing to many people I think. That Dan and Phil could have used DAPGO's massive platform and just researched the monument and put it's name in the book and spread some knowledge instead of more of the same ignorance.

when they failed to do that, it's the responsibility of the Canadian publisher arm who looks over the book to snag it. like they managed to do with every alcohol mention in the US version. I'm sorry, but some cocktails and a fucking liquor bottle birthday present in the context of men in their twenties is not as important as white Canadian teenagers being like, 'haha yeah it is fkn creepy! d&p agree with me!"'.... FAIL.

I think this sums it up perfectly. They managed to pull every mention of alcohol from the book but they didn't care enough to notice or do something about (unintentional, of course) cultural erasure. That in itself says something about the publisher's priorities.

PS: I just think this is a very sensitive topic and there's no need to fight over it. People have a right to be dissapointed, sad or otherwise affected by something like this, especially those belonging to ethnical minorities themselves. It's not always as silly or unimportant as it might look. This has nothing to do with being "holier" than anyone else or "being offended". But I think we should move on maybe? I do care about stuff like this a lot but I joined the forum for other stuff originally.

It doesn't mean much, like Phil was randomly in the red earlier this week an he hasn't even posted in 2 weeks. But considering #DAPGOOSE was uploaded yesterday, these numbers are very telling in that some people are fed up with the amount content for books and tours.

As someone who doesn't really care for the books and tour I can confirm that all the content about it does get tiring. I get that they have to advertise the books and tour somehow but it starts to feel like being cheated out of "real" content from them. There was spooky week and the baking vid but I feel like these only happened because it's an annual tradition and then more books and tour stuff. I hope this makes sense.

[Reizam]

Figured I'd throw my hat into the ring as I am a Metis person living in Canada.

I'm actually pretty disappointed and a little upset with the boys. Not angry, but just... really disappointed idk this left me feeling gross. It's so rare Aboriginal culture and issues get addressed in a positive light or even addressed at all, ESPECIALLY on a world stage and to have Deppy put an aspect of it in their travel book only to make fun of it?? (no matter if they meant no offense, this is one instance I'd say I don't care if they thought saying "creepy AF" was somehow not a negative comment. It comes across as one regardless. They should have known better. Someone editing should have caught that.) They really shouldn't have bothered adding it at all. Why add a part of our culture just to make a comment like that? A culture that right here right now are facing so many issues in being heard, seen and respected? I don't get it, I really don't.

The point was brought up that it's a book aimed at kids, but I really don't see how that helps anything. Especially since these are kids around the world who don't even get the limited education on Aboriginal issues we do here in Canada- the last thing I want are kids in Europe or Asia or anywhere else around the world seeing an inukshuk and thinking "haha dan and phil called that creepy af" and then moving on. Thats not the association I want it known by. I'm sorry it's just gross. This made them look so ignorant, and it has a wider impact on the kids who will be reading the book.

Sorry this isn't a very coherent post, I have to go to work soon and I'm a little emotional lmao, personally this just rubbed me the wrong way. I'm certain, absolutely certain they didn't do this meaning to be offensive- but god did it make them look ignorant. Just put the picture if you have to have it and say it looks like the Canadian Stonehenge, you don't need to call it creepy. For boys with a largely young audience that look up to them, no need to model ignorant behaviour around a culture they know nothing about.

Thanks for your comment! As someone who actually has a horse in this race, I'm more inclined to listen to you than anyone else's opinion on whether its offensive or not. I think if people had some context of the situation in Canada, they wouldn't be so easy to dismiss it. To those out there who aren't very aware, I encourage you to look into it (though you may get an upset stomach reading about it).

I think we can all agree that it wasn't malicious intent by deppy, just ignorant? Like, maybe they should think twice and do some research next time? That's just constructive criticism imo.

[Reizam]

On a more deppy-related note, was I just seeing things or was Dan getting a bit teary while answering that last question during DAPGOOSE?

[mermaid blood]

lmfao! if anyone is bored of reading only 2.5 pages of thoughtful criticism on an important political topic and jumps straight to '"no one can do anything anymore! we just shouldn't even speak!" you need to check your empathy levels and your privilege.

it is possible to care about things that affect people whilst also respecting the people who made the small mistake and loving their content (and talking about it at the same time).

for example:
i fucking loved dapgo, and dapgoose, i thought Phil in particular at the event was very candid and delightful. it sounded a bit like excited nervousness at times, his voice changed, and even Dan looked at him fondly for it.

Catallena oh good observation - I never look at stats. that's really interesting, i would've thought he'd have a spike instead.

[alittledizzy]

I wonder if Phil has pre-filmed anything or is gonna film something in Florida because his last three videos were literally just documentary related things, the one before that was for DAPGO and now there's been nothing for more than two weeks... At least Dan had the baking video this week.

In his last livestream Dan indicated they'd filmed something for Phil's main channel that had a corresponding Dan side channel video - my guess is something anime related, which I am not mad about at all, bring on that crunchyroll spon. I loved both of their last anime vids, and Dan's last anime side channel one. They're perfect examples to me of how #spon can be done well.

[rizzo]

[offtopic][/offtopic]

I found this gif of Dan putting his laptop on Phil's back/ass (?) http://phanofafan.tumblr.com/post/76259 ... astest-ive and apparently it's from the BBC Radio 1 reboot show in 2013. A quick YT search shows that in that episode, Phil apparently danced to Beyonce and Fifth Harmony and supposedly also did yoga and some pyramid thing. Deppy also twerked and danced somemore I've been looking everywhere for the full show - anyone knows where to get it? Maybe we could discuss it too (Phil's dancing is so cute) even though it's kind of outdated oops. Thanks!

It was an entire DAY. There's CRAPLOADS of videos/snippets/edits of it all over the place, but you can see a fair bit HERE . GO! ENJOY!

Oh, this made me nostalgic. I really want them to get a radio show back. Is that asking for too much?

I wonder if Phil has pre-filmed anything or is gonna film something in Florida because his last three videos were literally just documentary related things, the one before that was for DAPGO and now there's been nothing for more than two weeks... At least Dan had the baking video this week.

In his last livestream Dan indicated they'd filmed something for Phil's main channel that had a corresponding Dan side channel video - my guess is something anime related, which I am not mad about at all, bring on that crunchyroll spon. I loved both of their last anime vids, and Dan's last anime side channel one. They're perfect examples to me of how #spon can be done well.

I'm pretty pumped for a Phil video that isn't DAPGO or TATINOF, though am wondering as a whole why his channel got less #spon videos - especially recently.

Related videos were:
Dan: TATINOF Prologue
Dan: TATINOF Trailer
Phil: Doc Trailer
Dan: TATINOF Chat
Phil: Doc Chat
Dan: TATINOF
Phil: Doc
Dan: The Internet is Here
Dan: 360 Backstage
Phil: Bus Tour
Dan: #DAPGOOSE

7 vs 4 - It just seems like a weird split and then to top it off Dan got the baking video. It goes without saying that they work on each other's videos - I think Dan even once noted that they have a general Dan, then Phil, then Gaming video loop (don't quote me on this order). Obviously, all of the promo throws it off, but I wonder why the decision was made to put the majority on Dan's channel. More eyes on the project? Dan wanted it there? Phil didn't want it all clogging his channel? Hmmmm.

Either way, Dan noted in the DAPGOOSE description:
"This is the last big 'event/project' thing we're doing for a while so thank you to everyone who watches it and likes it and look forward to more traditional danisnotonfire style videos!"
So obviously, they're pretty ready to move on. Bring on the crunchyroll!

[nephilimcat]

I don't really know where the line is. I often get told that I'm too sensitive about topics by my parents. Yet in this case I didn't see the problem (at first) and now I'm not sure anymore. When are you too sensitive? Can you even be too sensitive? Does it really matter that two British guys called a monument creepy and compared it to Stonehenge in a photobook? Shouldn't we focus on actual problems instead? But then doesn't it start with the little things?

As you can see, I'm a bit lost. I can't blame Deppy at all because I didn't even see why anyone would find it problematic. But thinking about it, I do understand where you are coming from. Though I'm not sure if it is Deppy's responsibility. However, I would say that it definitely is the responsibility of the publisher. They should know if some topics are a bit too sensitive to address. With those topics, you are better off taking the safe road and making sure it won't come across as offensive. Even though I also agree that today it seems impossible not to offend anyone.
I think it might be because we are only slowly becoming aware that some things we did in the past were very wrong and are in the middle of trying to be better people and still being used to the old behavioural pattern. And those who had to suffer in the past/still have to suffer, are used to being oppressed and therefore might react sensitively to things that don't seem offensive at all.
I'd say normally nobody should be offended by someone who calls their monument creepy, but given the circumstances, it's very understandable and should be respected.

I hope this made any sense. I'm just trying to draw a conclusion that I feel comfortable with and this is the best I've got

[blueapple_x]

[SquishPhan]

Can't wait for Phil's new video, even if it is #spon.

I'm with Dan on this one.

[koalaselfie]

Too weak of a stomach to watch it, but re: the penguin video that I've literally only just discovered exists, lol...
Interesting that Dan liked this tweet? Or nah? #reaching #massivelydigressingfromimportantdiscussions

Also, Thomas Sanders walking with the guy voicing Winnie the Pooh and then linking the video to Dan seems super cute

(Sorry for off-topic)

edit: I was slightly too late, darn! haha

[Catallena]

I wonder if Phil has pre-filmed anything or is gonna film something in Florida because his last three videos were literally just documentary related things, the one before that was for DAPGO and now there's been nothing for more than two weeks... At least Dan had the baking video this week.

In his last livestream Dan indicated they'd filmed something for Phil's main channel that had a corresponding Dan side channel video - my guess is something anime related, which I am not mad about at all, bring on that crunchyroll spon. I loved both of their last anime vids, and Dan's last anime side channel one. They're perfect examples to me of how #spon can be done well.

Ah thanks I didn't really read any notes on his liveshow so that slipped by me.

Their basic taste in anime aside, I did like Dan's Crunchyroll video but while Phil's had a cool concept in the title it ultimately fell a bit flat to me. I didn't mind it though, Crunchyroll is definitely the best one out of their recent spons. I wonder what happens after that though, will PINOF be immediately after or will Phil make one more normal solo video before that? I kinda hope for the latter.

[karma_yeah]

tldr [offtopic]Kind of a random thought, but I find it curious that they take so many pictures of each other sleeping. And that they've included them in DAPGO.

When my children were younger I took pictures of them sleeping because they were my babies and I was in awe of them in the way that a parent adores their child (especially asleep ). But I've never taken a photo of a friend or SO while they were sleeping.

I suppose I might if there was something unusual going on, or I found them particularly adorable in the moment, but then I don't think it would be sharing it with other people.

It seems like a very intimate moment, to me anyway. Any thoughts?[/offtopic]

[Skeletorsrighthand]

tldr [offtopic]Kind of a random thought, but I find it curious that they take so many pictures of each other sleeping. And that they've included them in DAPGO.

When my children were younger I took pictures of them sleeping because they were my babies and I was in awe of them in the way that a parent adores their child (especially asleep ). But I've never taken a photo of a friend or SO while they were sleeping.

I suppose I might if there was something unusual going on, or I found them particularly adorable in the moment, but then I don't think it would be sharing it with other people.

It seems like a very intimate moment, to me anyway. Any thoughts?[/offtopic]

Its boys being boys really, playing pranks on each. other my friends and i do it all the time when someone falls asleep and has a very derpy face it seems like the instant thought is to show it to them after they wake up and teasing them about.

[daphenaxa]

Also i am sorry but even without knowing exactly what it is, i am shocked they couldn't figure out it was a 1st Nations or Native monument. It is not like it is completely obscure either, it was the visual for the Vancouver olympics etc. Tbh so much for Dan's "cultured" self but just as Phil's video with Hazel or Dan's geography problems, it shows they are quite ignorant on certain topics.

I'm not trying to defend the guys in any way with this post. I agree that kind of ignorance is hurtful and they should've done some research. The fact that no one checked on this kind of irks me a lot. I mean, it's not just the guys, it's also everyone involved with making the book. Where were the people at the publishing house who usually supervise a book? Correctors, editors etc. The fact that apparently no one thought of double checking what this is makes me quite angry since it showcases a bigger ignorance than only on Dan and Phil's part. Anyways, I agree with everyone pointing out how this is hurtful and just shouldn't have happened.

Anyways, what I wanted to point out though was that assuming they should have just known this was a First Nations monument kinda doesn't cut it. That's just a bit America centric and I don't think it's that easy. We don't have native peoples comparable to Native Americans in big parts of Europe, certainly not in Britain (there are some in Scandinavia and Russia and other countries but that feels very far away when you're living on an island). So knowledge about First Nations cultures isn't really far spread here and I personally think that's okay (since I'm pretty sure most Americans didn't know about the Norwegian Sami people before "Frozen" came out either and that's okay too, you just can't know about all cultures world wide). When I first saw the picture in DAPGO my mind also went straight to Stonehenge and to the dolmen graves and tors around the countryside here. Not because I'm ignorant of other cultures but because it's something I recognise from my own culture so my mind went straight to that.

So I wouldn't say not knowing it was a First Nations monument is ignorant and makes Dan and Phil uncultured. What's ignorant is the fact they didn't even double check it. What's ignorant is how no one, neither the guys nor anyone at the publisher's decided to check the "weird, creepy" stone thing out before putting the book out like this. I mean, wouldn't you have done that, even if just out of interest? I would have. That strikes me as weird here, no one even bothering to find out what the monument was and it leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth to be quite honest. If you go to another country and include landmarks and stuff in your book, at least double check what it is if you don't know. That's a matter of respect in my opinion. I mean, if an American put out a book calling Stonehenge a weird, creepy stone thing people around here would be rolling their eyes so hard, they'd fall out. It's just kinda incomprehensible to me that literally no one thought it was a good idea to check what the monument actually was.

Anyways, I think it's important to discuss this and also maybe bring it to Dan and Phil's attention but maybe whilst keeping in mind that they have no common grounds with the history of American native peoples since they are in fact not American. As I said, we don't have much contact with American history and the history of the First Nations here in Europe (just like Americans might not have much contact with the history of the native peoples of Europe) but the book was also published in the US and Canada and at that point at the very least someone should have checked this. It's just another example of a native peoples' culture being ignored and called weird and creepy and that's not okay at all.

PS: This is my first post on here, oh dear. I've been lurking for weeks now. I promise my next post will be less... like this one.

idk I just don't get that since they thought it looked like Stonehenge, they didn't make the link that it is probably a Native monument. (i am also surprised that as tourists they saw something like that and didn't ask anyone or researched what it was)
I don't think it is America centric to know there are Native people in USA and Canada. I am from Europe too and i am certainly not an expert about Native people but even if they know nothing at all of their history and struggles it is basic knowledge to know they are there.
Also they read BBC news don't they? Not learning something at school is one thing but I think it is untrue that Native Americans and Canadians are not talked about in the media in Europe at least on the internet.
anyways I guess you are right that it is more not looking it up that's ignorant than not knowing it in the 1st place.

[Birdie]

I suppose I might if there was something unusual going on, or I found them particularly adorable in the moment, but then I don't think it would be sharing it with other people.

It seems like a very intimate moment, to me anyway. Any thoughts?[/offtopic]

I used to do this at sleepovers for the fun of it when I was younger. Like, try to take a sneak picture of someone before they could pull the covers over their face or just taking a picture of them sleeping and sending it to them. For some reason we thought this was super fun. I think a lot of people do this but we're not famous so we don't share them of course. If my friend and I were famous, maybe we would share them as some kind of candids. It's pretty intimate, yes, but I think that's exactly why shared them. It makes the relationship between them and us seem more private and I think they're aiming for that.

idk I just don't get that since they thought it looked like Stonehenge, they didn't make the link that it is probably a Native monument. (i am also surprised that as tourists they saw something like that and didn't ask anyone or researched what it was)
I don't think it is America centric to know there are Native people in USA and Canada. I am from Europe too and i am certainly not an expert about Native people but even if they know nothing at all of their history and struggles it is basic knowledge to know they are there.
Also they read BBC news don't they? Not learning something at school is one thing but I think it is untrue that Native Americans and Canadians are not talked about in the media in Europe at least on the internet.
anyways I guess you are right that it is more not looking it up that's ignorant than not knowing it in the 1st place.

Nah, I get what you mean. Makes you wonder if maybe they did know what it was and kept the "joke" about it in for laughs or just really didn't care and didn't even google it. I don't know which I would dislike more to be honest. It's not America centric to know there are Native people in the US and Canada of course, I meant more like... not everyone knows what the monuments they built / build look like and it might not cross an European's mind that this is what's in front of them even though they know about Native Americans. I mean... they might just not make that connection. This is probably because all of the stupid stereotypes about Native Americans a lot of Europeans have. Rock monuments aren't exactly what most people think of when they think "Native American" and neither are the Canadian Inuit and their culture. There's a lot of misinformation and lack of information sadly. I don't think most Europeans really realise that the Inuit still exist at all and they certainly don't know a lot about their culture, it's all just stories to a lot of people here. We didn't learn anything about this at school at all even though we did a segment on American History and Native Americans. But the people from the arctic regions weren't mentioned once.

Also I'd just like to point out that all the posts on this were super informative and I learnt a lot today, thanks guys!

[azara]

With all of this talk of whether or not the comments about the structure were offensive - why don't you just ask someone who's actually a First Nations member? It looks like everyone here is busy deciding what is and isn't offensive to other people. Why would you spend so much of your energy being offended on behalf of someone else? You'll find the world a lot less 'problematic' if you see it that way...

[uglyamerican]

Right.

So I just got around to watching #DAPGOOSE. Well done guys, nice semi-scripted effort. Dan did an excellent job moderating /presenting /hosting (and looked pleasant while doing it .) Dig the black shirt vs. Mothra.

My favorite photo of Phil is on page 53 [US edition.] If you have seen "Young Frankenstein," you'll get it. I haven't decided which photo of Dan I like best.

So other than what the US editors apparently "manipulated" (like overt mentions of alcoholic ingredients,) obvious alcoholic beverages are displayed on several pages in the US edition. [Side note: the ACLU has a good definition of censorship: https://www.aclu.org/other/what-censorship .]

[mermaid blood]

With all of this talk of whether or not the comments about the structure were offensive - why don't you just ask someone who's actually a First Nations member? It looks like everyone here is busy deciding what is and isn't offensive to other people. Why would you spend so much of your energy being offended on behalf of someone else? You'll find the world a lot less 'problematic' if you see it that way...

...this is horrifying and literally the reason i am a misanthrope


awww I want Tom and Dan to be friends! like proper friend-friends. please.
Yes i am curious for Phil's upload and Dan's side channel vid. my bet is also Crunchyroll-related. also when do we get the voice-acting thing they did that they spoke about aaaages ago?

[mio]

With all of this talk of whether or not the comments about the structure were offensive - why don't you just ask someone who's actually a First Nations member? It looks like everyone here is busy deciding what is and isn't offensive to other people. Why would you spend so much of your energy being offended on behalf of someone else? You'll find the world a lot less 'problematic' if you see it that way...

See adonais post on the last page

Figured I'd throw my hat into the ring as I am a Metis person living in Canada.

I'm actually pretty disappointed and a little upset with the boys. Not angry, but just... really disappointed idk this left me feeling gross. It's so rare Aboriginal culture and issues get addressed in a positive light or even addressed at all, ESPECIALLY on a world stage and to have Deppy put an aspect of it in their travel book only to make fun of it?? (no matter if they meant no offense, this is one instance I'd say I don't care if they thought saying "creepy AF" was somehow not a negative comment. It comes across as one regardless. They should have known better. Someone editing should have caught that.) They really shouldn't have bothered adding it at all. Why add a part of our culture just to make a comment like that? A culture that right here right now are facing so many issues in being heard, seen and respected? I don't get it, I really don't.

The point was brought up that it's a book aimed at kids, but I really don't see how that helps anything. Especially since these are kids around the world who don't even get the limited education on Aboriginal issues we do here in Canada- the last thing I want are kids in Europe or Asia or anywhere else around the world seeing an inukshuk and thinking "haha dan and phil called that creepy af" and then moving on. Thats not the association I want it known by. I'm sorry it's just gross. This made them look so ignorant, and it has a wider impact on the kids who will be reading the book.

Sorry this isn't a very coherent post, I have to go to work soon and I'm a little emotional lmao, personally this just rubbed me the wrong way. I'm certain, absolutely certain they didn't do this meaning to be offensive- but god did it make them look ignorant. Just put the picture if you have to have it and say it looks like the Canadian Stonehenge, you don't need to call it creepy. For boys with a largely young audience that look up to them, no need to model ignorant behaviour around a culture they know nothing about.

I feel tired arguing this topic I just want to add that this isn't about exposing people (deppy in this case) or about being over-sensitive, but instead about addressing important social issues so everybody can learn and overthink the way they act. How else are we going to make the world a better place if we don't allow discussions and criticism
I for me know that I used to say and do things that I now see critically after I got educated on them. I am proud of that personal development and glad that it's a general tendency in (big parts of) our generation.

[adonais]

With all of this talk of whether or not the comments about the structure were offensive - why don't you just ask someone who's actually a First Nations member? It looks like everyone here is busy deciding what is and isn't offensive to other people. Why would you spend so much of your energy being offended on behalf of someone else? You'll find the world a lot less 'problematic' if you see it that way...

I'm First Nations and I did make a post talking about how I find it disappointing and ignorant if not outright offensive. It's a page or two back.

It's really heartwarming to read all these thoughtful posts, this is the exact sort of thing that needs to happen. If no one who wasn't First Nations spoke up about stuff like this, our voice would be so small and nothing would ever change. We need people to speak up and be "offended on behalf of someone else", otherwise people remain bystanders and let small issues like this AND bigger issues slip by. That leaves the members of the groups being targeted feeling alone, and makes the people saying offensive things think it's ok. Ignoring problematic things just bc you can doesn't make them go away, it just leaves the people affected alone. Discussion like what we have here is what makes change!

Edit: Thank you Mio!