Wow... As expected of IDB
Right now, I honestly think that Deppy won't come out, like... making a "coming out" video because... that doesn't seem to be their style. If anything, I think that Gamingmas is their way to ease their audience in what 2017 might bring. For all we know, DINI and LAP won't be as dead anymore because they'll just keep uploading domestic nonsense in it. Also, if they do move in next year and buy a dog... that's really telling.
Bit OT:
...What if they made TABINOF and TATINOF to end an era? Like... it's a look back on all the things that they did and thanking all of their fans for the support that they give after all these years. And now, it's like... they want to start something new, but not that entirely new, and they're doing it so subtly. Err... you know where I'm getting?
...Or maybe they're on an End-of-Tour-High and feeling the spirit of the Holidays, that's why they're so giddy-giddy this year.
Who requested the full in-depth analysis of Phan-are they or aren't they? for Christmas because this place has clearly delivered.
I have three videos to catch-up on. I legitimately never thought they'd be a time D&P would be putting out so much content I'd have multiple videos to catch up on! Thank you boys.
Ablissa wrote:[offtopic]Two, how come both of their main channels are grade B and DAPG is grade A-? What is it based on?[/offtopic]
Socialblade grades aren't set in stone they change to reflect how the channel is doing currently and statistically it's been a much better month for DAPG than it has for either of their main channels because they've been active on it. AP and DINOF haven't had a single upload this month whereas DAPG has had 24 new videos. 24 new videos means higher views and subs for DAPG then either of their inactive main channels pulled in this month.
Once they start being active on their main channels and less active on DAPGs the grades will likely change to reflect this.
Hope everyone enjoyed their Christmas.
Last edited by pearshaped34 on Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
I see those "I just don't see it" type of anti-phan arguments having just as much merit as the "heart eyes howell" discussions. My thinking that they're together isn't based on how they look at each other at all. I mean, I think they're really close, but just by watching them, I can't tell if they're really close bffs, or romantically/sexually involved?
My thinking they're together is based on the bigger picture, as alittledizzy said. There's many things that people have highlighted here, and that explanation makes more sense to me than them not being together. And, honestly, it may also be personal, because it'll be much easier for me to forgive them for being in the closet, than queerbaiting us, and trying to make us think they're together. And, honestly, Dan and Phil just don't seem like the kind of people who'd do the latter.
Phantasy wrote:For what it's worth here's my take and thoughts on the nature of D&P's relationship...
I think first you need to rewind the clock to 2009 and establish their mental states and drives at the time. In 2009 Dan was wrapping up with his secondary education, had a small group of friends and girlfriend, but was otherwise still pining for someone or something he could really connect with—you get the sense that he kept to himself a lot and was going through that age of "ugh, nobody gets me" and was particularly indifferent towards his family. With his theatre experiences behind him now, his primary escapism outlet was YouTube—he references in TABINOF that at one point he had viewed nearly 40k videos, YouTube wasn't just his idle entertainment, it was his obsession. Dan idolized youtubers, and given how relatively small the platform was at the time, he started developing connections with these creators and would message and leave comments like any other fanboy, and some of them even responded back. Enter Phil.
Phil was wrapping up his university studies and had been making videos for a few years already by 2009, while not huge, he had a steadily growing audience, which included Dan. Phil was still presumably still in an emotionally low point after the death of his flat mate of 3 years and when Dan reached out to Phil and expressed their common interests, they started to naturally click. Phil had already started to explore his bisexuality by this point, and here was this cute younger guy showing interest in all the same things who was clearly looking to connect with someone on more than just a surface level, and so the flirtations began.
In the beginning I think there were clear romantic overtones to their relationship, which included intimacy and sex. At the core Dan was enamored with Phil (maybe even in a slightly opportunistic sense) and after they finally meet, distance was hardly a limiting factor and it served as a nice escape from Dan's home life which he longed to get far away from. Dan of course eventually moved to Manchester to attend university and after a year moved in with Phil (though they practically spent most of their time together anyway).
Here's where conjecture begins... At some point during this time, maybe even as a condition of moving in together, I think they decided, likely at Dan's insistence, that they put their romantic relationship aside in order for living together and working together to truly work. I think Dan was having trouble understanding his sexuality and chalked up their earlier romantic engagement to experimentation and that they'd be better off as just friends, hence the anti-gay, anti-phan overtones of 2012 and after. I suspect too that part of the heavy denials were aimed towards his family, and while Dan's parents aren't too computer savvy, Dan's brother would have found evidence of shipping and rumors (and maybe even voldy) all too easily—even if Dan was accepting of his sexuality, he certainly wasn't ready to make it known to his growing audience (and family), and with shipping coming to a feverish pitch around this time, he probably felt cornered and lashed out.
Here is what I think is fundamentally at the core of their relationship: Dan is loyal and co-dependent and Phil has a deep (and potentially unrequited) romantic love for him. Dan owes Phil everything for taking an interest in him and giving him the motivation and encouragement to start making videos, so he has this deep unbreakable sense of appreciation and loyalty for Phil. Meanwhile Phil is hopelessly and romantically in love with Dan, and has sacrificed his own feelings when/if Dan put limits on the terms of their relationship.
What's clear is that they are inseparable. I think they have eased into a mutually beneficial status where they both get the fulfillment and support they need from each other—certainly there is a level of intimacy there, but whether it has returned to anything of a sexual nature is impossible to tell.
I think 2017 will be revealing in many different ways. I think this past year was their way of validating their existence in a purely creative sense without the "gimmick" of labels—you get the impression from Dan especially that he doesn't want to be known as the bi/gay youtuber, or as a YouTube couple, he wants to stand purely on the creativity. I think they've proved everything they've needed to prove and now 2017 will have a glass closet type of transparency. No more denials or affirmations, just living their lives and people can interprets it any way they wish. Phil is turning 30, they've made a ludicrous amount of money in 2016, and I'm sure they'll move, likely to Brighton to be closer with their friends and have more space while they transition to the next phase of their lives, which will of course include a corgi (fight me team shib). I wouldn't be surprised too if they started setting up more non-dan/phil branded types of ventures to set up income streams for the future. By all accounts 2017 should be a quieter year, but may in fact prove more revealing than any other.
What a great analysis! I agree with almost everything in this post - very well put, and it seems like a realistic conclusion to come to concerning their relationship.
However! There are two things which I disagree with (or would like clarification on)
1. What made you come to the conclusion that Phil is hopelessly in love with Dan? Honestly, his emotions are completely unreadable to me and I'd love to see your reasoning behind this.
2. #teamshibe all the way m8. I'll fite u
I agree with much of Phantasy's post, though not the breaking up part. Especially, I've always thought that Phil has been deeply in love and committed from the beginning.
Exhibit 1: voldy
Exhibit 2: pinof. In their original video, you can see Phil all over Dan, while Dan is reserved and even pushes Phil back (well, that's what I see!).
Exhibit 3: Watch all Phil's 2009 videos in order. It's not too hard to see a narrative of someone trying to figure out his life including looking for love. And then Dan is there all the time, seemingly the answer. (2009 Phil is my favorite Phil. I'm happy to see 2016 Phil, who seems more like the same person than a lot of the intervening years.)
Another thing to think about is how traumatizing the voldy leak likely was. Not hard to imagine someone never wanting to show affection after having the world gawk at your pouring out your heart.
Been lurking here a very long time (I think I was just too lazy to make an account tbh) and the recent are they/aren't they together discussion has surprised me because of the amount of people who think they're not together. I guess I just presumed everyone here thought they were?
Like a couple of other were saying, I think it's their history that makes the most compelling argument to me. I feel it's either they've always been platonic or they've always been together and given 2009/2010 and voldy, I find that impossible to be see as platonic. So ya I'm definitely on the they've always been together view
MoonPride wrote:To me it always looks like Dan is hopelessly in love with Phil, not the other way around. Phil doesn't give anything away in that sense.
i've always thought that. Phil hardly gives anything away at all, it's quite interesting really how well he can keep a straight face/keep things hidden. Dan seems to be much more expressive even if he doesn't realise? also, i always thought ''heart eyes howell'' was a dead give away when i started watching them but i think i read somewhere that he likes giving eye contact with people when theyre talking? still, he does look at Phil like he adores him which is cute.
tbh, it would be really nice if they were together in the end, regardless though they obviously have a very strong friendship and have stayed around each other since 2009. im so envious of their friendship/relationship/whatever it is, it always makes me want that with someone, im just glad theyve both got each other cus at the end of the day they seem very happy (especially recently) and it's lovely to see
MoonPride wrote:To me it always looks like Dan is hopelessly in love with Phil, not the other way around. Phil doesn't give anything away in that sense.
i've always thought that. Phil hardly gives anything away at all, it's quite interesting really how well he can keep a straight face/keep things hidden. Dan seems to be much more expressive even if he doesn't realise? also, i always thought ''heart eyes howell'' was a dead give away when i started watching them but i think i read somewhere that he likes giving eye contact with people when theyre talking? still, he does look at Phil like he adores him which is cute.
tbh, it would be really nice if they were together in the end, regardless though they obviously have a very strong friendship and have stayed around each other since 2009. im so envious of their friendship/relationship/whatever it is, it always makes me want that with someone, im just glad theyve both got each other cus at the end of the day they seem very happy (especially recently) and it's lovely to see
When I watch Dan interacting with other people, he doesn't look with such fondness that he looks at Phil with.
Phantasy wrote:For what it's worth here's my take and thoughts on the nature of D&P's relationship...
I think first you need to rewind the clock to 2009 and establish their mental states and drives at the time. In 2009 Dan was wrapping up with his secondary education, had a small group of friends and girlfriend, but was otherwise still pining for someone or something he could really connect with—you get the sense that he kept to himself a lot and was going through that age of "ugh, nobody gets me" and was particularly indifferent towards his family. With his theatre experiences behind him now, his primary escapism outlet was YouTube—he references in TABINOF that at one point he had viewed nearly 40k videos, YouTube wasn't just his idle entertainment, it was his obsession. Dan idolized youtubers, and given how relatively small the platform was at the time, he started developing connections with these creators and would message and leave comments like any other fanboy, and some of them even responded back. Enter Phil.
Phil was wrapping up his university studies and had been making videos for a few years already by 2009, while not huge, he had a steadily growing audience, which included Dan. Phil was still presumably still in an emotionally low point after the death of his flat mate of 3 years and when Dan reached out to Phil and expressed their common interests, they started to naturally click. Phil had already started to explore his bisexuality by this point, and here was this cute younger guy showing interest in all the same things who was clearly looking to connect with someone on more than just a surface level, and so the flirtations began.
In the beginning I think there were clear romantic overtones to their relationship, which included intimacy and sex. At the core Dan was enamored with Phil (maybe even in a slightly opportunistic sense) and after they finally meet, distance was hardly a limiting factor and it served as a nice escape from Dan's home life which he longed to get far away from. Dan of course eventually moved to Manchester to attend university and after a year moved in with Phil (though they practically spent most of their time together anyway).
Here's where conjecture begins... At some point during this time, maybe even as a condition of moving in together, I think they decided, likely at Dan's insistence, that they put their romantic relationship aside in order for living together and working together to truly work. I think Dan was having trouble understanding his sexuality and chalked up their earlier romantic engagement to experimentation and that they'd be better off as just friends, hence the anti-gay, anti-phan overtones of 2012 and after. I suspect too that part of the heavy denials were aimed towards his family, and while Dan's parents aren't too computer savvy, Dan's brother would have found evidence of shipping and rumors (and maybe even voldy) all too easily—even if Dan was accepting of his sexuality, he certainly wasn't ready to make it known to his growing audience (and family), and with shipping coming to a feverish pitch around this time, he probably felt cornered and lashed out.
Here is what I think is fundamentally at the core of their relationship: Dan is loyal and co-dependent and Phil has a deep (and potentially unrequited) romantic love for him. Dan owes Phil everything for taking an interest in him and giving him the motivation and encouragement to start making videos, so he has this deep unbreakable sense of appreciation and loyalty for Phil. Meanwhile Phil is hopelessly and romantically in love with Dan, and has sacrificed his own feelings when/if Dan put limits on the terms of their relationship.
What's clear is that they are inseparable. I think they have eased into a mutually beneficial status where they both get the fulfillment and support they need from each other—certainly there is a level of intimacy there, but whether it has returned to anything of a sexual nature is impossible to tell.
I think 2017 will be revealing in many different ways. I think this past year was their way of validating their existence in a purely creative sense without the "gimmick" of labels—you get the impression from Dan especially that he doesn't want to be known as the bi/gay youtuber, or as a YouTube couple, he wants to stand purely on the creativity. I think they've proved everything they've needed to prove and now 2017 will have a glass closet type of transparency. No more denials or affirmations, just living their lives and people can interprets it any way they wish. Phil is turning 30, they've made a ludicrous amount of money in 2016, and I'm sure they'll move, likely to Brighton to be closer with their friends and have more space while they transition to the next phase of their lives, which will of course include a corgi (fight me team shib). I wouldn't be surprised too if they started setting up more non-dan/phil branded types of ventures to set up income streams for the future. By all accounts 2017 should be a quieter year, but may in fact prove more revealing than any other.
What a great analysis! I agree with almost everything in this post - very well put, and it seems like a realistic conclusion to come to concerning their relationship.
However! There are two things which I disagree with (or would like clarification on)
1. What made you come to the conclusion that Phil is hopelessly in love with Dan? Honestly, his emotions are completely unreadable to me and I'd love to see your reasoning behind this.
2. #teamshibe all the way m8. I'll fite u
I agree with much of Phantasy's post, though not the breaking up part. Especially, I've always thought that Phil has been deeply in love and committed from the beginning.
Exhibit 1: voldy
Exhibit 2: pinof. In their original video, you can see Phil all over Dan, while Dan is reserved and even pushes Phil back (well, that's what I see!).
Exhibit 3: Watch all Phil's 2009 videos in order. It's not too hard to see a narrative of someone trying to figure out his life including looking for love. And then Dan is there all the time, seemingly the answer. (2009 Phil is my favorite Phil. I'm happy to see 2016 Phil, who seems more like the same person than a lot of the intervening years.)
Another thing to think about is how traumatizing the voldy leak likely was. Not hard to imagine someone never wanting to show affection after having the world gawk at your pouring out your heart.
Lol luckily enough I just finished a giant rewatch of all of Dan and Phil's videos in chronological order!
In regards to the voldy vid - that is honestly the rawest and most genuine display of emotion I've seen from Phil to this day - you got me.However other than that he seems much more in control of his emotions, like it's still really hard to see Phil being the one having to bend to Dan's rules if that makes sense? Nevertheless, I'll retract my statement, and replace it with "I don't think Phil is the only one who's been committed since Day 1", since the statement I originally disagreed with mostly was "Phil was the -only- one hopelessly and romantically in love"
In PINOF, I think the reason that Phil was "all over Dan" is because generally, he's a more touchy person OR he enjoys getting a reaction out of Dan/pushing the boundaries. Examples of this are:
- poking his hair and touching his face a lot
- leaning in quite close
- stroking Dan (lol)
- saying things just to annoy Dan/get a reaction (thicc) (the entire confession roulette video)
AND in 2009, like in Phantasy's post, I agree that Phil was at an emotionally low point and just wanted to figure his life out. However, I also do think he helped Dan a lot. Like - a lot a lot. This is made quite clear in his formspring answers and his twitter posts (I'll put screenshots if you want but I'm still tryna figure this forum thing out!)
- in response to "has anyone saved you? (emotionally/physically) Dan answers "Phil?"
- in response to "who are some people you can't live without" Dan also answers "Phil"
- "what's the nicest thing someone's ever done for you?" "what phil's done for me"
- all his cheesy tweets about love ("the greatest thing you'll ever learn is love and be loved in return")
- the implication that he liked to go to Phil's to "escape"
So on and so forth. If you want definite proof I'll post screenshots but i don't know how yet
And yes! I love love love 2009/2016 Phil! The rebranding is In Motion omg
Also I cannot even imagine what Phil must have felt when the voldy vid leaked. He handled it so well online though like I would have lashed out like Dan did.
SquishPhan wrote:Yeah the theory that they were together in 2009, but broke up sometime along the way, yet remained so close just doesn't make any sense to me.
I tend to lean towards this theory and it doesn't make any sense to me either lol. Like I would be sold on this idea 100% if it was still 2012 and they were vehemently denying phan, but that was like 5 years ago and they're still ridiculously close. I find it hard to believe that exes could be that close. Friends sure, but best friends who work, live, and travel together is a little harder to believe. And yet my brain always comes back to it. It's probably just my way of reconciling what they say (that they're are not together) with what I believe is true (they were together in the beginning at least) as I can't think of any concrete reasons why I think that way sometimes. Sorry this probably didn't help at all
CallMeAyana wrote:Wow... As expected of IDB
Right now, I honestly think that Deppy won't come out, like... making a "coming out" video because... that doesn't seem to be their style. If anything, I think that Gamingmas is their way to ease their audience in what 2017 might bring. For all we know, DINI and LAP won't be as dead anymore because they'll just keep uploading domestic nonsense in it. Also, if they do move in next year and buy a dog... that's really telling.
Bit OT:
...What if they made TABINOF and TATINOF to end an era? Like... it's a look back on all the things that they did and thanking all of their fans for the support that they give after all these years. And now, it's like... they want to start something new, but not that entirely new, and they're doing it so subtly. Err... you know where I'm getting?
...Or maybe they're on an End-of-Tour-High and feeling the spirit of the Holidays, that's why they're so giddy-giddy this year.
Thats always been exactly what I've been thinking.
I think one of the reasons we (or at least lots of us) have seen such a drastic change since october is simply because tatinof was more or less over at that point and I feel very much like they wanted to use it as both an end of their over clichéd personas and the image they had so firmly in place.
Now that they have paid hommage to that enough, they are free to move on and change. (also they are definitely on an end of tour high too)
It's about time I dipped my toe into the main thread...got more to say when I get organised (just got home after a few days away) but first of all, that Instagram of Phil...wow, those eyes!!
But who the fuck am I kidding? I'm mostly just the rotting banana peel at the bottom of the phan trash can who genuinely gets excited over the thought of them snuggling in bed. Idgaf let a bitch live
- Manged
anathema wrote:
Let me start out by saying that not only do I think there's a good chance they're together, I'm also 100% on team "they won't ever do a proper coming out but if they want to come out they will make it obvious they're together in a subtle way". However, I really don't agree with this, especially the part in bold. Don't get me wrong, I think that the whole "straight until proven otherwise" attitude is super disrespectful. But I don't think this is a case of that. Yes, D&P have been acting differently. They've been acting much more comfortable and natural, especially around each other. But, nothing about it has proved they're dating. A "subliminal" coming out would be Dan saying that Phil is "the worst boyfriend in the world". It would be "our bedroom". It would be Phil kissing Dan on the cheek and not editing it out. It would be them adopting a dog together (because, let's be real, what 100% platonic pair of friends would do that?). I just don't see how you can call their new behavior "coming out", because none of it is strictly romantic. Besides that, Dan and Phil are Mr. and Mr. "we don't talk about our personal private lives because it's personal and private." I don't see them coming out (subliminally or otherwise) until they have to (have to = getting a dog, child, etc. together).
On another note: I'm super glad they finished undertale, I really liked the episode. I loved festive Dil and I ESPECIALLY loved the pinof bloopers
I don't think some of these are subliminal though? Like, calling each other boyfriends it straight up coming out (unless it worded intentionally vaguely to imply Dan was referring to someone else suffering the future horror of dating Phil). If Dan did say boyfriend instead of blerson in that famous liveshow ( still over that drama), few people would've needed the cuteness of gamingmas to trust and believe in phan.
I think you're slightly misreading what I said here (which I will say is mainly my fault, I probably should have used a different wording). I don't think subliminal was the right word for me to use here, I think "subtly" would have worked better. Anyway, my point wasn't that they'll never come out. My point was that they wouldn't do a proper (youtube) coming out (which, in my mind, is sitting down and making a 12 minute video explaining everything). But when/if they were to come out, it wouldn't be a "big deal". If Dan offhandedly called Phil a boyfriend in a liveshow, it wouldn't be a "proper coming out", but, like you said, few people would have needed more to believe in phan. I was trying to make that my original point, sorry if it didn't come across correctly
Phantasy wrote:Here's where conjecture begins... At some point during this time, maybe even as a condition of moving in together, I think they decided, likely at Dan's insistence, that they put their romantic relationship aside in order for living together and working together to truly work. I think Dan was having trouble understanding his sexuality and chalked up their earlier romantic engagement to experimentation and that they'd be better off as just friends, hence the anti-gay, anti-phan overtones of 2012 and after. I suspect too that part of the heavy denials were aimed towards his family, and while Dan's parents aren't too computer savvy, Dan's brother would have found evidence of shipping and rumors (and maybe even voldy) all too easily—even if Dan was accepting of his sexuality, he certainly wasn't ready to make it known to his growing audience (and family), and with shipping coming to a feverish pitch around this time, he probably felt cornered and lashed out.
Why do you think his family had anything to do with 2012??
