Dan & Phil Part 34: It's a post-baking universe

[papierklemmen]

well damn!!! what a beautiful selfie angle!

[gnostic]

Phil is either very good at beautification filter or has straight up best skin on the planet

I mean, based on the picture it's likely filter, but it's more fascinating than anything

[Sakura Selfie]

That photo is just gorgeous

Also, just rewatched PINOF bloopers and I can't stop laughing at "Dan, does your dimple have a capital city?" I love phils mind so much

[Phantasy]

Here's where conjecture begins... At some point during this time, maybe even as a condition of moving in together, I think they decided, likely at Dan's insistence, that they put their romantic relationship aside in order for living together and working together to truly work. I think Dan was having trouble understanding his sexuality and chalked up their earlier romantic engagement to experimentation and that they'd be better off as just friends, hence the anti-gay, anti-phan overtones of 2012 and after. I suspect too that part of the heavy denials were aimed towards his family, and while Dan's parents aren't too computer savvy, Dan's brother would have found evidence of shipping and rumors (and maybe even voldy) all too easily—even if Dan was accepting of his sexuality, he certainly wasn't ready to make it known to his growing audience (and family), and with shipping coming to a feverish pitch around this time, he probably felt cornered and lashed out.

Why do you think his family had anything to do with 2012??

Just thinking logically, that if the internet rumors and shipping were inescapable, especially with voldy floating around, if he wasn't ready to come out to his family (or the rest of the world), he would have had to create some form of deniability—and that message would have been just as much for his family as their audience.

[karma_yeah]

Phil: WOW. Just WOW.

I was going to add Dan's "You could go swimming in those eyes" screenshot, but someone already beat me to it. (and soz, but that's not the kind of comment a platonic bro friend makes)

TLDR, I don't personally think they'll ever come out in a video on purpose. I believe voldy was real, and accidentally outed them in 2011. They've done a great job of /damage control with that, and do to this day.

They've been so hyper-vigilant in avoiding that kind of thing that It doesn't seem like their style (but they are welcome to prove me wrong )

I also don't see any evidence that they have any interest in being a poster LGBTQ Youtuber power couple, or even seen as being representatives of any kind of couple. They have such a hard time expressing their personal opinions regarding anything controversial, so that just seems unlikely to me.

I hope they'll just move on with their lives: buy a house, get a dog, a child, whatever. They are international entertainers, and there are places where it is literally life-endangering to be seen as anything but heterosexual, so I don't blame them. There are some people who will NEVER believe they are together, even if they take out a full-page ad in the New York Times kissing next to a copy of their marriage certificate. And there are others, like me, who won't believe they aren't together unless one/both of them finds another partner. Even then, that won't mean they haven't been together. The divorce rate in England is around 42%.

I just appreciate their relaxed attitudes, and willingness to show both same-gender attraction and to be touchy with each other. For me that actually enhances the comedic effect because it doesn't contradict the greater context of the last 7 years.

[daichii]

@missemma thank u, sorry didnt reply before. It is always on mobile but clicking on the log me automatically lets me in so that's fine now

Now that photo. OMG. Can Phil just move out to IoM if these are the photos he'll be posting whenever he's there

[fancybum]

Phil is either very good at beautification filter or has straight up best skin on the planet

I mean, based on the picture it's likely filter, but it's more fascinating than anything

I mean the lighting definitely helps, but filter or not, he definitely has some gorgeous skin irl. The bastard.

Did Dan say his next show was Jan 3rd and not today? Because he was spotted yesterday in the vicinity of his flat... And Phil's not back yet. Sooo come on Dan. I think gamingmas ruined me, I can't go back to nothing for days/weeks at a time after a month of daily content. rip me.

[MoonPride]

Phil is either very good at beautification filter or has straight up best skin on the planet

I mean, based on the picture it's likely filter, but it's more fascinating than anything

I mean the lighting definitely helps, but filter or not, he definitely has some gorgeous skin irl. The bastard.

Did Dan say his next show was Jan 3rd and not today? Because he was spotted yesterday in the vicinity of his flat... And Phil's not back yet. Sooo come on Dan. I think gamingmas ruined me, I can't go back to nothing for days/weeks at a time after a month of daily content. rip me.

He literally spent less than 2 days at home with his family then left? I think that says quite a lot if it's true.

[SquishPhan]

That pic of Phil.

me.

[confusedpanda]

Phil is either very good at beautification filter or has straight up best skin on the planet

I mean, based on the picture it's likely filter, but it's more fascinating than anything

I mean the lighting definitely helps, but filter or not, he definitely has some gorgeous skin irl. The bastard.

Did Dan say his next show was Jan 3rd and not today? Because he was spotted yesterday in the vicinity of his flat... And Phil's not back yet. Sooo come on Dan. I think gamingmas ruined me, I can't go back to nothing for days/weeks at a time after a month of daily content. rip me.

Are you talking about the photo updatedphan shared yesterday? If so, that wasn't from yesterday, it was from the 24th according to the ig link on the photo. And dan said his next live show is January 10th, Phil's will be the 7th. So 10 more days till any new things. I feel your pain with not having daily content now.

[lishachi]

sorry

totally platonic right?

fuck he looks hot.

[melon lord]

Whether they are together or not, one of the things I hate with the ambiguity is less their own "performance" (I use the term loosely), but more how it affects us as a fanbase/community. Especially in this age-old debate, the implications and lowkey shading just flies from all sides of the argument.

Like, if you don't ship them/believe they are together (since you can ship them regardless of how you think they are), you instantly have an image in your mind of the person: "heteronormative, demanding, blind to an obvious LGBT loving relationship, stubborn to 'piling evidence', probably daydreams about being with one of them, stick in the mud, shit flinger at the shippers"

and if you do ship them, I've seen the shippers be treated like "desperate to see anything that fits their narrative, overexcited for even a millisecond of eye contact or physical contact, will violently go down with this ship, shit flinger at the non shippers, judgemental pricks to anyone who disagrees or doesn't see what they see" etc etc

like I've seen people be on both sides and I've seen that judgemental attitude from both ends and it pisses me off. I've followed some people on twitter and the way they talk about non shippers (even if it's in a jokey sense) is just really uncomfortable for me, but I also don't like how some non shippers talk about the shippers, because I consider you all my friends and a lot of you ship them unironically and you are definitely not delusional or whatever.

Yes we do all enjoy them for the bants and the entertainment but when it comes to this, there is such a divide and rift that only "the truth" would settle, for either side. I feel somehow that if things were clearer (and I mean 100% from the horse's mouth clear, not ambiguous heart eyes or poking), then the community would be more peaceful in general

[Phantasy]

For what it's worth here's my take and thoughts on the nature of D&P's relationship...

I think first you need to rewind the clock to 2009 and establish their mental states and drives at the time. In 2009 Dan was wrapping up with his secondary education, had a small group of friends and girlfriend, but was otherwise still pining for someone or something he could really connect with—you get the sense that he kept to himself a lot and was going through that age of "ugh, nobody gets me" and was particularly indifferent towards his family. With his theatre experiences behind him now, his primary escapism outlet was YouTube—he references in TABINOF that at one point he had viewed nearly 40k videos, YouTube wasn't just his idle entertainment, it was his obsession. Dan idolized youtubers, and given how relatively small the platform was at the time, he started developing connections with these creators and would message and leave comments like any other fanboy, and some of them even responded back. Enter Phil.

Phil was wrapping up his university studies and had been making videos for a few years already by 2009, while not huge, he had a steadily growing audience, which included Dan. Phil was still presumably still in an emotionally low point after the death of his flat mate of 3 years and when Dan reached out to Phil and expressed their common interests, they started to naturally click. Phil had already started to explore his bisexuality by this point, and here was this cute younger guy showing interest in all the same things who was clearly looking to connect with someone on more than just a surface level, and so the flirtations began.

In the beginning I think there were clear romantic overtones to their relationship, which included intimacy and sex. At the core Dan was enamored with Phil (maybe even in a slightly opportunistic sense) and after they finally meet, distance was hardly a limiting factor and it served as a nice escape from Dan's home life which he longed to get far away from. Dan of course eventually moved to Manchester to attend university and after a year moved in with Phil (though they practically spent most of their time together anyway).

Here's where conjecture begins... At some point during this time, maybe even as a condition of moving in together, I think they decided, likely at Dan's insistence, that they put their romantic relationship aside in order for living together and working together to truly work. I think Dan was having trouble understanding his sexuality and chalked up their earlier romantic engagement to experimentation and that they'd be better off as just friends, hence the anti-gay, anti-phan overtones of 2012 and after. I suspect too that part of the heavy denials were aimed towards his family, and while Dan's parents aren't too computer savvy, Dan's brother would have found evidence of shipping and rumors (and maybe even voldy) all too easily—even if Dan was accepting of his sexuality, he certainly wasn't ready to make it known to his growing audience (and family), and with shipping coming to a feverish pitch around this time, he probably felt cornered and lashed out.

Here is what I think is fundamentally at the core of their relationship: Dan is loyal and co-dependent and Phil has a deep (and potentially unrequited) romantic love for him. Dan owes Phil everything for taking an interest in him and giving him the motivation and encouragement to start making videos, so he has this deep unbreakable sense of appreciation and loyalty for Phil. Meanwhile Phil is hopelessly and romantically in love with Dan, and has sacrificed his own feelings when/if Dan put limits on the terms of their relationship.

What's clear is that they are inseparable. I think they have eased into a mutually beneficial status where they both get the fulfillment and support they need from each other—certainly there is a level of intimacy there, but whether it has returned to anything of a sexual nature is impossible to tell.

I think 2017 will be revealing in many different ways. I think this past year was their way of validating their existence in a purely creative sense without the "gimmick" of labels—you get the impression from Dan especially that he doesn't want to be known as the bi/gay youtuber, or as a YouTube couple, he wants to stand purely on the creativity. I think they've proved everything they've needed to prove and now 2017 will have a glass closet type of transparency. No more denials or affirmations, just living their lives and people can interprets it any way they wish. Phil is turning 30, they've made a ludicrous amount of money in 2016, and I'm sure they'll move, likely to Brighton to be closer with their friends and have more space while they transition to the next phase of their lives, which will of course include a corgi (fight me team shib). I wouldn't be surprised too if they started setting up more non-dan/phil branded types of ventures to set up income streams for the future. By all accounts 2017 should be a quieter year, but may in fact prove more revealing than any other.

What a great analysis! I agree with almost everything in this post - very well put, and it seems like a realistic conclusion to come to concerning their relationship.

However! There are two things which I disagree with (or would like clarification on)
1. What made you come to the conclusion that Phil is hopelessly in love with Dan? Honestly, his emotions are completely unreadable to me and I'd love to see your reasoning behind this.
2. #teamshibe all the way m8. I'll fite u

I agree with much of Phantasy's post, though not the breaking up part. Especially, I've always thought that Phil has been deeply in love and committed from the beginning.

Exhibit 1: voldy

Exhibit 2: pinof. In their original video, you can see Phil all over Dan, while Dan is reserved and even pushes Phil back (well, that's what I see!).

Exhibit 3: Watch all Phil's 2009 videos in order. It's not too hard to see a narrative of someone trying to figure out his life including looking for love. And then Dan is there all the time, seemingly the answer. (2009 Phil is my favorite Phil. I'm happy to see 2016 Phil, who seems more like the same person than a lot of the intervening years.)

Another thing to think about is how traumatizing the voldy leak likely was. Not hard to imagine someone never wanting to show affection after having the world gawk at your pouring out your heart.

I agree, these examples illustrate the point. Going on another limb to say, I think Dan's personality is the type that is more grating as time goes on (opinionated, prone to constant self-reflection, dark, almost morbid humor, socially detached, etc.), and to me there must be something more than being friends and business partners that keep them together for so long—it's hard for me to envision Dan living alone or with anyone else who's not in love with him, he needs an audience of one to help fulfill his self-actualization, I think he needs constant reminders that the sun will come out tomorrow and that he is valid as a person—again along the lines of co-dependency, which can all be draining for a friend to fulfill that role. But, since love blinds, I think that along with the other evidence is what keeps Phil tethered. YouTube duos and best friends move in together all the time, but after a while in order to grow as individuals, you need move out—what's clear with deppy after 5+ years is that there's more than just mutual convenience that keeps them together.

[fancybum]

Are you talking about the photo updatedphan shared yesterday? If so, that wasn't from yesterday, it was from the 24th according to the ig link on the photo.

Oops yup that was what I was thinking of, reading comprehension fail on my part.

He literally spent less than 2 days at home with his family then left? I think that says quite a lot if it's true.

lol that's what I was thinking, but never mind! Maybe he's having a great time still there. Also: Colin. How bad could it possibly be with Colin around.

And dan said his next live show is January 10th, Phil's will be the 7th. So 10 more days till any new things. I feel your pain with not having daily content now.

Noooooooo. I bet we'll get an AP vid before then though. OR ELSE.

Whether they are together or not, one of the things I hate with the ambiguity is less their own "performance" (I use the term loosely), but more how it affects us as a fanbase/community. Especially in this age-old debate, the implications and lowkey shading just flies from all sides of the argument.

Like, if you don't ship them/believe they are together (since you can ship them regardless of how you think they are), you instantly have an image in your mind of the person: "heteronormative, demanding, blind to an obvious LGBT loving relationship, stubborn to 'piling evidence', probably daydreams about being with one of them, stick in the mud, shit flinger at the shippers"

and if you do ship them, I've seen the shippers be treated like "desperate to see anything that fits their narrative, overexcited for even a millisecond of eye contact or physical contact, will violently go down with this ship, shit flinger at the non shippers, judgemental pricks to anyone who disagrees or doesn't see what they see" etc etc

like I've seen people be on both sides and I've seen that judgemental attitude from both ends and it pisses me off. I've followed some people on twitter and the way they talk about non shippers (even if it's in a jokey sense) is just really uncomfortable for me, but I also don't like how some non shippers talk about the shippers, because I consider you all my friends and a lot of you ship them unironically and you are definitely not delusional or whatever.

Yes we do all enjoy them for the bants and the entertainment but when it comes to this, there is such a divide and rift that only "the truth" would settle, for either side. I feel somehow that if things were clearer (and I mean 100% from the horse's mouth clear, not ambiguous heart eyes or poking), then the community would be more peaceful in general

All good points. I don't consider myself a 'shipper' as I'm not shipping, I just think they're a couple, period. If people don't 'ship it' I don't give a shit as long as they're not being assholes/heteronormative/etc. Same with people who do 'ship it' like calm the hell down sometimes, you know? Like relax, if everybody would just relax it would be a more peaceful (maybe even boring) community. But that's not really up to D&P, and honestly if any kind of unambiguous truth was given, there would still be a divide of annoying people going 'told you so' and the antis doubling down on 'respecting their privacy' whether they were wrong or not. Like assholes are going to be assholes no matter what, they don't need a reason.

[The_Blonde]

Just here to comment on that photo of Phil - everyone already said what I wanted to say so I'll just do a string of instead. And also change my phone background.

(I also scrolled very slowly over these past two pages to look at it again. And again )

[mandyrockt]

sorry

totally platonic right?

fuck he looks hot.

I've always been a 'Dan-Girl' but I have to admit that picture is gorgeous! I changed my phone lock screen from Dan to Phil

[itsonlybeth]

Oh dear lord, I can honestly say I've only ever been attracted to the 2009 version of Phil but that photo..that angle, those eyes..and red is such a good colour on him. I was scrolling through Twitter when he posted it, and I faintly recall actually saying 'swoon' under my breath.

Never really been attracted to Phil, but this photo. Damn.

[nephilimcat]

Phil, why do you have to keep reminding me that I'm not simply gay? (jk... For the most part)
He's just... Wow I'm dead now, farewell fellow trashcans.

Nothing to add to the shipping discussion. A lot of people already mentioned what I was going to say. We have to wait and see what the future will bring

[Amiaw]

Phil's selfie

He has such an interesting face that sometimes he looks ordinary and then you see a different angle and he is stunning

Nothing else to add - just had to fangirl

[pilotlight]

That ladybug shirt though. He looks so good in red.

[Truth_or_cliche]

Oh my god Phiiiiillll

[flarequake]

Phil's still an angel, then, that's two ridiculously beautiful photos in a row

[teamug]

Whether they are together or not, one of the things I hate with the ambiguity is less their own "performance" (I use the term loosely), but more how it affects us as a fanbase/community. Especially in this age-old debate, the implications and lowkey shading just flies from all sides of the argument.
Yes we do all enjoy them for the bants and the entertainment but when it comes to this, there is such a divide and rift that only "the truth" would settle, for either side. I feel somehow that if things were clearer (and I mean 100% from the horse's mouth clear, not ambiguous heart eyes or poking), then the community would be more peaceful in general

I don't think Dan and Phil need to clear their relationship in order for people to behave themselves on the internet. Are they responsible for how their audience takes on the age-old debate and divides themselves? If it wasn't a case of are they/aren't they in a romantic relationship, there would be some other issue for their fans to debate and attack eachother over. This is a peeve I have of the world nowadays in general, not just within the phandom, but, the utter inability of people to take responsibility for their own words and actions annoys me.

No one should need to explain their personal lives to strangers to ensure said strangers good behaviour. (This is me imagining the world is a much better place than it actually is. eh.)

Sorry, melonlord, I've failed at trying to get my sentiment across without sounding harsh, in no way am I having a go at you.

[sentinel]

Someone punch me in the fucking face oh my god

Phil is literally aging like a fine wine, he had a period where he was kinda eh but now coming into 30................ I just..........

[uglyamerican]

He literally spent less than 2 days at home with his family then left? I think that says quite a lot if it's true.

IDK, I spend "only" part of Christmas Eve and Christmas Day with my family, and I live an hour away from home, so....