Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

[fancybum]

2. Voldy-people bitching about how Dan suffered/behaved, as if Phil didn't literally have a private video of himself released online? Yet made one public mention of it, then ghosted the whole thing. Then people treating Dan as the center of attention, as if he suffered from it. Maybe not acknowledging that his actions were to protect Phil more than himself? Who knows what Phil internalized from this incident, how he felt, yet we make fun of him and annoy him to be more open about his sexuality and personal life as if a person could ever really recover from something so soul destroying?

And your second point is one want to slam a thank button down on. Anyone who thinks Dan was more upset by Phil than the vday video has some serious Dan-goggles on. They're different people who express emotions in different ways; if something is big/scary/upsetting to Phil, he's not the person who is going to broadcast it online. That doesn't negate the emotional impact something like that would have had on him though. Dan's behavior was probably a result of many things, but it's weird to see people not even consider that protecting Phil or trying to take the heat off Phil might have been a part of it.

Maybe I'm not paying enough attention to other phandom areas outside of this one, but I thought that was basically the accepted narrative here/gg (that Dan was 'taking the hit' and protecting Phil), and that's the reason it doesn't really get talked about much. Because it was just taken as fact. And I'm not sure why it, in either direction, has to be about protecting one person 'more'. Dan took the active and vocal role where the vid is concerned, but he was protecting himself as much as Phil with anything he was doing. Because he was protecting their joint privacy. I don't doubt for one second it was one of the most horrible things that has ever happened in Phil's life, and that it's affected to this day how he portrays himself online and what he chooses to share.

But what's the use in debating who was affected 'worse' by it? Dan's angry rants and questionable word choice in reaction (even tangentially) to the existence of the video still follow him now, they're the reason people have something to cling to when clamping down on their own heteronormativity to project onto Dan. There's only so much I can assume about how Phil felt about it (or even feels about it these days) because he is a brick wall with certain things, and the obvious assumption is yes, he was mortified/exposed. If that happened to me, I'd be resentful of the internet for the rest of my life, yet he's remarkably un-bitter as far as we see. Like literally though who's making fun of Phil over it, where are you reading this, because I'll fight.

A classics game that is fun but intense? Maybe Donkey Kong again?

He said it was something they hadn't played before, and that it was fun but stressful. I have no idea what's been heavily requested outside of like Life is Strange and other full 'Let's Play' type of games. I don't get the sense they really want to commit to another series, so hmm. Hopefully console though, get back on the couch and stay there.
(wait did he even specify if it was that or the Sims we're getting today? It might just be Sims)

edit: wildly off topic but: British people, what the fuck is a polar bear cake? I assumed it was some UK thing and just googled it, and all I'm seeing are.. cakes... shaped like polar bears. Did they literally just buy a full cake each. what.

[palpable]

Oy peeps, just found this and it mentions deppy. An article about the meitu app that suddenly blew up in the western hemisphere

https://wishcrys.com/2017/01/19/meituxi ... =hootsuite

[mez29]

[Dan] was the "brave" one so Phil didn't have to be.

…
Stop.

[MoonPride]

I think it's a polar bear cupcake because if they actually ended up with two huge polar bear cakes I will laugh.

[peekatyou]

What happened at Vidcon?

Hi, you weren't asking me, but just type into google "can Phil express an opinion", and you'll see. It's basically Dan shutting everyone else on the panel up to let Phil talk. He was trying to answer a question with people blatantly talking over/ignoring him, and if it wasn't for Dan, his answer probably would never have been heard.

[secretagentphan]

[Dan] was the "brave" one so Phil didn't have to be.

…
Stop.

:wtf:

[corn flakes]

This is based on Phil's "deer in the headlights" comment:

What does this mean? How does it compare to Dan's recent comment of Phil shaking in the corner? Maybe Phil actually has the social anxiety that people diagnose Dan with. Maybe they both have anxiety but two people with anxiety don't suit the idea of one personal in a relationship being the "rock" maybe they're both an anxious mess. Maybe they have different difficulties, different coping mechanisms-maybe they look to each other in vastly different, or maybe very similar situations where they need each other for help? People always remark how they kind of drift together in social situations, gravitate together for protection and balance, understanding of each other's discomfort or unease. So, Phil helps Dan's social anxiety? No, they both struggle. They literally say how they both stay in the corner at parties.

Maybe I'm alone in finding this annoying, but I find it kind of insulting that Dan is kind of this childish figure who is some ball of sadness and has sweet sunshine Phil come and save the day from his poor, dark thoughts? (Fanfiction flashbacks of people writing existential crisis with no idea what it actually is, instead some watered down moodiness that's treated like chronic depression). I mean, not to focus on Phil here, but that's kind of the reason seeing as Dan's kind of got himself a following of "mental health experts" diagnosing him with anxiety,with the flimsiest of off-comments that while neurotic could still be from a sustained person. Yet, Phil makes these "off-comments" too, but Phil's a rock to some people as if there's no such thing as TWO people in a relationship/friendship/symbiosis that could POSSIBLY still both to be awkward in their own skin, be insecure, dependent on each other, self-doubting. They always need to paint one as some sort of rock and the other person as something fragile and unbreakable.

I always found annoying how people tend to assume dan is the "weak" one that NEEDS sunshine/strong phil to survive. I hate the need of the phandom to potray whatever bond they have as a sick codependent one, where especially if dan was left one everything will go bad.
They are two imperfect (like everyone) people, some things are easier for them, some not, it's normal that if they stick togheter is because they work well togheter, one can help the other in life and make it more fun. Phil has his own doubts/insecurities only he tends to be a lless open about that, it's who he is. It's both insulting to dan and to phil.

[AmazingOCD]

[Dan] was the "brave" one so Phil didn't have to be.

THE PHEELS!!!!

I agree with all the points made about Deppy's reaction against the vday vid. With neither making any comments about it until Dan forcefully retaliating on tumblr (2012 stuff ) and Phil staying shtum about it, it must have hurt them both so so much....

(if they are together that is)

Keep in mind that I have not seen said video and am not willing to watch it. Though I have read a transcript and I do think it is true..... especially the way they have been behaving in recent vids. I am of the belief that they are building up to something (but the again that could be the phan-goggles taking over

LIVESHOW: It was really nice to see Phil chatting in his ls in the way he was (a lot more relaxed). I had a wtf reaction to when he said he needed to loosen his belt (Phil?!?!?! Really?!?!?!). Maybe some of Dan's recent ls vibes/influence is rubbing off on him? #postbakinguniverse

[lurker]

A classics game that is fun but intense? Maybe Donkey Kong again?

He said it was something they hadn't played before, and that it was fun but stressful. I have no idea what's been heavily requested outside of like Life is Strange and other full 'Let's Play' type of games. I don't get the sense they really want to commit to another series, so hmm. Hopefully console though, get back on the couch and stay there.
(wait did he even specify if it was that or the Sims we're getting today? It might just be Sims)

i was kind of hoping for life is strange (mostly because i honestly can't imagine how that would go but i think it would be interesting), but dan talking about not liking time-travel stories has made that a lot less likely i suppose. i actually thought they might do it eventually since it's been so heavily requested (it seems to be under every gaming video together with mystic messenger), but well.

edit: wildly off topic but: British people, what the fuck is a polar bear cake? I assumed it was some UK thing and just googled it, and all I'm seeing are.. cakes... shaped like polar bears. Did they literally just buy a full cake each. what.

i'm not british but i suppose they might have been something like these or maybe this?

[simmehchan]

What happened at Vidcon?

Hi, you weren't asking me, but just type into google "can Phil express an opinion", and you'll see. It's basically Dan shutting everyone else on the panel up to let Phil talk. He was trying to answer a question with people blatantly talking over/ignoring him, and if it wasn't for Dan, his answer probably would never have been heard.

Ohhh that! Thanks! and now i realise that happened in 2014 and i feel really old

I think the polar bear cakes are probably something like this:https://realfood.tesco.com/recipes/pola ... cakes.html

[flarequake]

The new game might be Chocobo Racing, only because the artist whose meme-last-supper header got chosen the other day asked for both repeatedly and they clearly noticed the header so maybe noticed the game too. Or maybe a Final Fantasy.

[swofro]

[Dan] was the "brave" one so Phil didn't have to be.

…
Stop.

:wtf:

I want to be there so you don't have to be brave

[alittledizzy]

Maybe I'm not paying enough attention to other phandom areas outside of this one, but I thought that was basically the accepted narrative here/gg (that Dan was 'taking the hit' and protecting Phil), and that's the reason it doesn't really get talked about much. Because it was just taken as fact. And I'm not sure why it, in either direction, has to be about protecting one person 'more'. Dan took the active and vocal role where the vid is concerned, but he was protecting himself as much as Phil with anything he was doing. Because he was protecting their joint privacy. I don't doubt for one second it was one of the most horrible things that has ever happened in Phil's life, and that it's affected to this day how he portrays himself online and what he chooses to share.

But what's the use in debating who was affected 'worse' by it? Dan's angry rants and questionable word choice in reaction (even tangentially) to the existence of the video still follow him now, they're the reason people have something to cling to when clamping down on their own heteronormativity to project onto Dan. There's only so much I can assume about how Phil felt about it (or even feels about it these days) because he is a brick wall with certain things, and the obvious assumption is yes, he was mortified/exposed. If that happened to me, I'd be resentful of the internet for the rest of my life, yet he's remarkably un-bitter as far as we see. Like literally though who's making fun of Phil over it, where are you reading this, because I'll fight.

Yeah, rereading what I wrote last night, I could have worded myself better. It is useless to debate who was effected worse. It is impossible to know motives behind behavior definitively either way.

(There are plenty of people in other social media corners of the phandom that assume that because we didn't see a reaction from Phil that he didn't have one, though. Probably the same people who think that Dan cares more about Phil than vice versa, or that Phil seems like "the straight one" based on body language - people who take surface observations and base their opinions on those without looking any deeper.)

[uglyamerican]

Oy peeps, just found this and it mentions deppy. An article about the meitu app that suddenly blew up in the western hemisphere

https://wishcrys.com/2017/01/19/meituxi ... =hootsuite

I'm not sure I liked the tone of the linked article, but it moving on from that, there seems to be some rather serious security issues with the app, so be aware:

http://arstechnica.com/security/2017/01 ... acy-holes/

[Waggle9007]

Oy peeps, just found this and it mentions deppy. An article about the meitu app that suddenly blew up in the western hemisphere

https://wishcrys.com/2017/01/19/meituxi ... =hootsuite

I'm not sure I liked the tone of the linked article, but it moving on from that, there seems to be some rather serious security issues with the app, so be aware:

http://arstechnica.com/security/2017/01 ... acy-holes/

Haha, I was just coming here to post the same thing

[kuensukki]

Did anyone understand the point dia was making?? I'm kinda confused that I woke up and saw the conversation trying to discuss phils feelings about the vday video (and other things) since we didn't ever discuss literally become a discussion about dan and his protection of phil??? What?? That was exactly the point she was arguing against in the beginning. I'm sorry but I'm kinda done with the excuse that Phil is "hard to read" and quiet because he gives away more then people choose to see, people just choose to wither a)ignore it b)pretend it doesn't exist.

[Catallena]

Did anyone understand the point dia was making?? I'm kinda confused that I woke up and saw the conversation trying to discuss phils feelings about the vday video (and other things) since we didn't ever discuss literally become a discussion about dan and his protection of phil??? What?? That was exactly the point she was arguing against in the beginning. I'm sorry but I'm kinda done with the excuse that Phil is "hard to read" and quiet because he gives away more then people choose to see, people just choose to wither a)ignore it b)pretend it doesn't exist.

mte people are missing the point :')

[fancybum]

Did anyone understand the point dia was making?? I'm kinda confused that I woke up and saw the conversation trying to discuss phils feelings about the vday video (and other things) since we didn't ever discuss literally become a discussion about dan and his protection of phil??? What?? That was exactly the point she was arguing against in the beginning. I'm sorry but I'm kinda done with the excuse that Phil is "hard to read" and quiet because he gives away more then people choose to see, people just choose to wither a)ignore it b)pretend it doesn't exist.

Sorry, I guess I am missing the point. I said he was a brick wall with certain things, not everything, I'm not trying to ignore the things he does give away. But like what conversation do you want to happen here exactly that you're annoyed isn't happening. I think Phil does have a degree of social anxiety (or anxiousness if the first word gets too close to diagnosing anything) that he deals with; I think in Brits interviews and those kinds of situations his discomfort is pretty apparent in his body language (stiff demeanor, 'the hand thing') and the fact he opted out of doing the Hunger Games thing and left it to Dan could be another indicator even though he said he just wasn't interested at the time. I'm leaning toward they (sorry for including both here) actually aren't too interested in continuing with presenting jobs and don't really care about the radio show ending because they didn't enjoy it as much by the end. So Phil being full of creative ideas currently is very exciting to me, because he's hopefully going to try something new on his own terms and maybe get out of his comfort zone a bit (if these 'ideas' are for something potentially narrative or filmic, maybe something with animation who knows) and I'd like to hear him expand on what those ideas are when they start to take form, as he said last week he doesn't yet know where they'll lead. I love Phil, but honestly I'm sometimes at a loss of how to talk about him and even with Dan I don't really care to psychoanalyze all that much. So like what do you want to talk about with Phil. I think (from my own dumb perspective) something about Phil is more definitive than Dan. Phil says something, and that's basically the end of the conversation. Dan says something and it's the beginning, because he tends to discuss things that are still ongoing convesations for himself. I don't know, tell me how to discuss Phil satisfactorily please.

[000dia000]

Did anyone understand the point dia was making?? I'm kinda confused that I woke up and saw the conversation trying to discuss phils feelings about the vday video (and other things) since we didn't ever discuss literally become a discussion about dan and his protection of phil??? What?? That was exactly the point she was arguing against in the beginning. I'm sorry but I'm kinda done with the excuse that Phil is "hard to read" and quiet because he gives away more then people choose to see, people just choose to wither a)ignore it b)pretend it doesn't exist.

While the tangent conversation of Dan protecting Phil was great and I'm happy it prompted some sort of discussion but it definitely proved the point

[lefthandedism]

Did anyone understand the point dia was making?? I'm kinda confused that I woke up and saw the conversation trying to discuss phils feelings about the vday video (and other things) since we didn't ever discuss literally become a discussion about dan and his protection of phil??? What?? That was exactly the point she was arguing against in the beginning. I'm sorry but I'm kinda done with the excuse that Phil is "hard to read" and quiet because he gives away more then people choose to see, people just choose to wither a)ignore it b)pretend it doesn't exist.

mte people are missing the point :')

I love reading/talking about Phil! Even though my eyes are always drawn to Dan (see my avatar), I find Phil fascinating. And as someone who has been told to my face more than once that I obviously don't have feelings because I'm not very expressive, I can relate to the frustration of someone's feelings being glossed over. (Though of course it's possible Phil would prefer we glossed over his feelings.)

Anyway, I always encourage people to watch Phil's early videos--tell me that boy isn't expressing all sorts of things.

Slightly more substantively, I liked dia's suggestion that maybe Dan helped Phil soften up his perception/expression of gender roles--feeling comfortable in rejecting the "manly [power drill]" thing. I guess that goes along with the idea, brought up here before, that Dan has helped Phil more recently be expressive about things like male attraction.

Uh oh! See how that happens--the conversation turns to Dan again. I suppose the healthy (tm) way to discuss Dan & Phil is to be able to talk about both of them from a variety of perspectives.

Oh, god, in seconds Obama will no longer be president.

[alittledizzy]

Someone figured out what the new pics on their bookshelf are:

Cuuuuuuuuuute.

[oqua]

Did anyone understand the point dia was making?? I'm kinda confused that I woke up and saw the conversation trying to discuss phils feelings about the vday video (and other things) since we didn't ever discuss literally become a discussion about dan and his protection of phil??? What?? That was exactly the point she was arguing against in the beginning. I'm sorry but I'm kinda done with the excuse that Phil is "hard to read" and quiet because he gives away more then people choose to see, people just choose to wither a)ignore it b)pretend it doesn't exist.

While the tangent conversation of Dan protecting Phil was great and I'm happy it prompted some sort of discussion but it definitely proved the point

I thought the point you were arguing against was the idea that Phil always protects Dan? I fail to see how discussion of an instance of Dan protecting Phil was a tangent or went against what you said?

You said:

Then people treating Dan as the center of attention, as if he suffered from it. Maybe not acknowledging that his actions were to protect Phil more than himself?

Weren't you pointing out that the Phandom always portrays Phil as the rock and Dan as the weak one, Phil "saved" Dan, etc, but in reality, Phil has plenty of his own insecurities and anxieties and struggles?

And then you and others talked about how the Phandom never discusses Phil's feelings about the Voldy leak, just Dan's.

I wasn't trying to, like, refocus the discussion on Dan's feelings or something. I was trying to talk about Phil's. It's just hard to talk about Phil's feelings about Voldy without talking about Dan's actions, because Phil didn't really do anything publicly. So all we can really do is infer how Phil felt, and I guess I was just trying to say that he was probably a bit of a wreck after the leak.

Edit: And to clarify, I don't think one of them always has to be "weak" while the other is "strong." In fact, I despise that idea. And I don't like simplifying someone's response to something as "he was weak." But I do think that Dan and Phil have different ways of handing stress, sadness, etc., and that these differences often complement each other. And I also think that at times when they are both uncomfortable, scared, etc., they probably mutually draw strength/confidence from each other. But I don't see any problem with pointing out that Dan sort of publicly "took the hit" when it came to Voldy, even though (and probably partly because) Phil was probably way more deeply emotionally affected by the leak.

[flurry]

Oy peeps, just found this and it mentions deppy. An article about the meitu app that suddenly blew up in the western hemisphere

https://wishcrys.com/2017/01/19/meituxi ... =hootsuite

Um yes I wondered what the hype was about because people in my country (aka all my friends) have been using it for what feels like ages! Did Phil say he's the first xxx number of people to use it and that it's Korean? Ah well that felt sort of funny to me! Hello Phil if you're reading this - it's Mandarin (:

[kuensukki]

Did anyone understand the point dia was making?? I'm kinda confused that I woke up and saw the conversation trying to discuss phils feelings about the vday video (and other things) since we didn't ever discuss literally become a discussion about dan and his protection of phil??? What?? That was exactly the point she was arguing against in the beginning. I'm sorry but I'm kinda done with the excuse that Phil is "hard to read" and quiet because he gives away more then people choose to see, people just choose to wither a)ignore it b)pretend it doesn't exist.

Sorry, I guess I am missing the point. I said he was a brick wall with certain things, not everything, I'm not trying to ignore the things he does give away. But like what conversation do you want to happen here exactly that you're annoyed isn't happening. I think Phil does have a degree of social anxiety (or anxiousness if the first word gets too close to diagnosing anything) that he deals with; I think in Brits interviews and those kinds of situations his discomfort is pretty apparent in his body language (stiff demeanor, 'the hand thing') and the fact he opted out of doing the Hunger Games thing and left it to Dan could be another indicator even though he said he just wasn't interested at the time. I'm leaning toward they (sorry for including both here) actually aren't too interested in continuing with presenting jobs and don't really care about the radio show ending because they didn't enjoy it as much by the end. So Phil being full of creative ideas currently is very exciting to me, because he's hopefully going to try something new on his own terms and maybe get out of his comfort zone a bit (if these 'ideas' are for something potentially narrative or filmic, maybe something with animation who knows) and I'd like to hear him expand on what those ideas are when they start to take form, as he said last week he doesn't yet know where they'll lead. I love Phil, but honestly I'm sometimes at a loss of how to talk about him and even with Dan I don't really care to psychoanalyze all that much. So like what do you want to talk about with Phil. I think (from my own dumb perspective) something about Phil is more definitive than Dan. Phil says something, and that's basically the end of the conversation. Dan says something and it's the beginning, because he tends to discuss things that are still ongoing convesations for himself. I don't know, tell me how to discuss Phil satisfactorily please.

bruh youre taking it as if I was talking about you. Im not nitpicking people same with you oqua but that wasn't really the point of the post. It wasn't something that dia was getting at, and although I enjoy the effort you put in to that one line oqua dia's main point was how people didn't focus on phil for the whole time. Even when he reappeared after the silence and had to deal with the repercussions of getting released. We never really theorized or discussed his fear? Was he scared, hurt, betrayed? What did he do and how did he cope with his feelings and vulnerability being exposes to the world and shared by everyone? It isn't about Dan although he reacted more openly about it, it wasn't his video or his feelings. Also I see people on tumblr using the vday as an excuse for dans 2012 homophobic remarks and Im sitting here shaking my head because again it isn't about him.

Anyway it's not my place to make sure people read a whole post and you guys are free to respond as you please. But it's not only the vday video, it's everything Phil does that inadvertently is viewed in the lens of Dan, even when its not about him. It always viewed in a how is dan related to phil, not how phil responds or reacts to anything and thats the point dia was trying to make. He is an individual person, not an extension to dan and I really want that to be recognized. He has his own feelings, experiences, anxieties, insecurities that no one cares to bring attention to. And when they do its immediately turned into a discussion about dan being protective of him, so you can kinda see why im frustrated.

Anyway for what its worth I really enjoyed the rest of your post fancybum and really liked what you said about his anxiety and how he responds to it. I think mermaidblood also made a really fascinating post about this. Like swofro said he's more likely to always appear calm on the outside although he internally freaks out. There is a hilarious picture of him putting his arms up in a defensive post in front of BBC headquarters when they saw fans (it was on my old computer). Also again with the dad situation and him literally standing there and remaining unsure as if he wants to approach but doesn't. He tends to appreciate keeping seemingly calm like that liveshow where we see him overcompensating for Dan by consistently berating him when he thinks he's being rude. Other examples being the recent girl in theater who sat next to them and (from dms) it was described that Phil was very aware fot he fan sitting next to him and dan and jumped up during break to quickly take the fan picture. This awareness and diplomacy he has to appear as nice as he can even when he's uncomfortable is interesting to me.

[kuensukki]

Anyway this isnt me wanting EQUALITY!! between the boys or equal discussion because I dont expect that to happen. Its just me pointing out that if we are a forum that can psychoanalyze one person we should also give the same treatment to another because Im sure many enjoy reading other peoples perspectives on both guys.

Heres two points that I brought up that are more related to current topic that I'd wish to hear more opinions on!

Another internalization of upbringing I noticed is him berating himself for going high-pitched when got excited by saying he shouldn't speak like that and instead, speak in a deeper tone. To me it seemed like something someone may have teased him on and that he then was more conscious/embarrassed of??

Also the whole selfie thing spoke volumes for me because I felt like an asshole for teasing him about his selfie face when it's the one he's more comfortable in. Actually watching that whole scene of him trying to take a selfie in front of us and getting insecure and immediately giggling/blushing and looking through the comments for validation was also super interesting to see. And him saying he's not that comfortable taking serious faced selfies because they looked silly therefore he always reacts to the camera with an expression may be that he's not entirely comfortable being seen through a serious lens (too bad Phil!)