Dan & Phil Part 36: Wholesome Howell and AmazingPhlegm

[malday]

Other examples being the recent girl in theater who sat next to them and (from dms) it was described that Phil was very aware fot he fan sitting next to him and dan and jumped up during break to quickly take the fan picture. This awareness and diplomacy he has to appear as nice as he can even when he's uncomfortable is interesting to me.

Did the girl post her experience anywhere, or did she only dm on twitter? can someone share the whole story, please?

[MoonPride]

Other examples being the recent girl in theater who sat next to them and (from dms) it was described that Phil was very aware fot he fan sitting next to him and dan and jumped up during break to quickly take the fan picture. This awareness and diplomacy he has to appear as nice as he can even when he's uncomfortable is interesting to me.

Did the girl post her experience anywhere, or did she only dm on twitter? can someone share the whole story, please?

She did a group chat on Twitter about it. Phil fed Dan sweets and they giggled about it, they looked at dog vidoes on Twitter and Dan made sure in the second half he swapped seats with Phil.

[malday]

Other examples being the recent girl in theater who sat next to them and (from dms) it was described that Phil was very aware fot he fan sitting next to him and dan and jumped up during break to quickly take the fan picture. This awareness and diplomacy he has to appear as nice as he can even when he's uncomfortable is interesting to me.

Did the girl post her experience anywhere, or did she only dm on twitter? can someone share the whole story, please?

She did a group chat on Twitter about it. Phil fed Dan sweets and they giggled about it, they looked at dog vidoes on Twitter and Dan made sure in the second half he swapped seats with Phil.

cute

[missemma]

and Dan made sure in the second half he swapped seats with Phil.

... because he knew he was sitting next to a fan who was going to blab to the rest of the world about their night out and who would be more interested in what they were doing rather than watching the show

[edit] also I am loving the discussion on here right now, some really good points made so to you all

[MoonPride]

and Dan made sure in the second half he swapped seats with Phil.

... because he knew he was sitting next to a fan who was going to blab to the rest of the world about their night out and who would be more interested in what they were doing rather than watching the show

That too and how she wanted to kiss Dan's dimple

[zvezdochka]

I think being nice is Phil's go-to response to stressful social situations, which is a sign of empathy. "If I feel bad, can you imagine, how people around me might feel? I shall help them". This little appeasing others task becomes prevalent in one's mind, not leaving much room for anxiety.

As for his selfie face, the weird part is not that he has one, but that he chose that particular one. Btw, here's Tom doing Phil (and Dan) at 17:17

It's not just the silliness, it's the widened eyes, Phil commented on it himself in his LS. Maybe subconsciously he goes for an image of someone non-threatening (always surprised, not blinking because always slightly scared)?

[missemma]

That too and how she wanted to kiss Dan's dimple

I actually felt sorry for Dan and Phil because whilst I'm sure they'd be polite enough to entertain a fan, they weren't working and were out to enjoy themselves, to see something that Dan has previously mentioned he would love to see. I saw some of the things this girl was saying and in my opinion she was being quite rude by watching their every move and looking at their phones to see what they were doing. Would she have done that if there has been a couple she didn't know next to her? Of course not, so why did she think it was okay to basically (imo) violate their privacy and then tell loads of people about it afterwards.

[MoonPride]

That too and how she wanted to kiss Dan's dimple

I actually felt sorry for Dan and Phil because whilst I'm sure they'd be polite enough to entertain a fan, they weren't working and were out to enjoy themselves, to see something that Dan has previously mentioned he would love to see. I saw some of the things this girl was saying and in my opinion she was being quite rude by watching their every move and looking at their phones to see what they were doing. Would she have done that if there has been a couple she didn't know next to her? Of course not, so why did she think it was okay to basically (imo) violate their privacy and then tell loads of people about it afterwards.

Yeah! I mean post your photo and say you met them by all means but to share their private night out with a bunch of 20 group chats on Twitter is just disrespectful to them.

[shoe]

This is based on Phil's "deer in the headlights" comment:

What does this mean? How does it compare to Dan's recent comment of Phil shaking in the corner? Maybe Phil actually has the social anxiety that people diagnose Dan with. Maybe they both have anxiety but two people with anxiety don't suit the idea of one personal in a relationship being the "rock" maybe they're both an anxious mess. Maybe they have different difficulties, different coping mechanisms-maybe they look to each other in vastly different, or maybe very similar situations where they need each other for help? People always remark how they kind of drift together in social situations, gravitate together for protection and balance, understanding of each other's discomfort or unease. So, Phil helps Dan's social anxiety? No, they both struggle. They literally say how they both stay in the corner at parties.

Maybe I'm alone in finding this annoying, but I find it kind of insulting that Dan is kind of this childish figure who is some ball of sadness and has sweet sunshine Phil come and save the day from his poor, dark thoughts? (Fanfiction flashbacks of people writing existential crisis with no idea what it actually is, instead some watered down moodiness that's treated like chronic depression). I mean, not to focus on Phil here, but that's kind of the reason seeing as Dan's kind of got himself a following of "mental health experts" diagnosing him with anxiety,with the flimsiest of off-comments that while neurotic could still be from a sustained person. Yet, Phil makes these "off-comments" too, but Phil's a rock to some people as if there's no such thing as TWO people in a relationship/friendship/symbiosis that could POSSIBLY still both to be awkward in their own skin, be insecure, dependent on each other, self-doubting. They always need to paint one as some sort of rock and the other person as something fragile and unbreakable.

Instances I see this:

1. Phil influencing (or God-forbid in some instances, "saving" Dan from his depression of his teens and university). I always find that people say that Phil influenced Dan or helped Dan by becoming his "best friend" and being a mature, wise companion. What about Phil? How has Dan affected his positively? Well, (my opinion) but I noticed that Phil, after meeting Dan, has slowly become more "childish" as some people like to put it. (or I would put it, full of life and not pretending to dead inside for edginess). I noticed Phil became a lot more confidant in himself and in his videos, his character a lot softer, a lot more feminine. Dan's no fear of being himself and not aspiring to typical "masculine" behavior-them both laughing over Phil's "manly" present of a drill.
2. Voldy-people bitching about how Dan suffered/behaved, as if Phil didn't literally have a private video of himself released online? Yet made one public mention of it, then ghosted the whole thing. Then people treating Dan as the center of attention, as if he suffered from it. Maybe not acknowledging that his actions were to protect Phil more than himself? Who knows what Phil internalized from this incident, how he felt, yet we make fun of him and annoy him to be more open about his sexuality and personal life as if a person could ever really recover from something so soul destroying?
So, I went full demon here, but let's be honest about the discussion, being mainly Dan, and even my post discussing that. Don't worry, things will go back to Dan soon, and brief Phil discussion about how Dan is affected by him There. Done.

I come here to read about what everyone thought of Phil's lovely liveshow and stumble upon this gem. God bless.

I share the same opinion with you about everything, especially about voldy. I'm glad you brought this up because the reason why I fall in love with their relationship (assuming they're together obviously) is because of the way they supports and completed each other. They protect each other, back to back, the two of them against the rest of the world (yes, I am quoting sherlock. Shut up).

Phil is the kind of person who doesn't know what to do when he is abruptly faced with a problem (example: chilli burning, angry dad at tabinof, bird entering their kitchen in early hours in the morning), so I always look at Dan's action as protecting Phil. Because Phil is too nice (example: not speaking up when he actually want to say something in that vidcon(?) panel, buying polar bear cakes) to speak up and face a conflict head on.

Agree that they're each others rock, each other's shield and each other's knight. I have more things to say about this but I feel like I can't convey how I feel because of language barrier. So I will leave it to that.

I don't actually understand what it has to do with deer in the headlights. I thought he was talking about his selfie face :confuse:

Also, fancibum, I really like your tally count.

"Deer in headlights" refers to the way that a wild deer responds when caught in the middle of a country road with an approaching car. The deer is fast. If it continued running across the road as it had been, it would probably get out the of the road in time not to be hit by the car. But as soon as it hears the car, the deer stops moving, and turns to stare at the car. Frozen.

A deer, caught in headlights.

The freeze response is a stress response displayed by a lot of prey animals which rely heavily on camouflage. It doesn't work with cars, but it makes sense as a response to a predator. The deer has good camouflage for a reason. Predators are fast, but usually have vision which is best at seeing movement. If a predator approaches, the deer's best chance is to stay as still as possible, because that way predator might not see it. That's a much better chance than making a lot of noise and drawing attention to itself by trying to run away, and being caught anyway. So the deer waits, and watches, tensed up and ready to move if it is sure it's already been seen.

This makes sense in relation to Phil because (in addition to widening his eyes in selfies) his immediate response to stress seems to be neither fight nor flight, but to freeze. The deer isn't using a consciously considered strategy, and possibly neither is Phil. The stress response is instinctive and pretty uncontrollable. You're too scared to do anything but stand and stare. Have you heard the word "petrified"? That also means frozen in fear in the same way.

(I don't want to say that that's definitely how Phil feels and responds to all or any situations of extreme stress. These are just the connotations that the phrase "deer in headlights" has for me, in my understanding of it, as a biologist.)

dia Thank you for your post. Personally I find the idea of two people who have similar difficulties which manifest differently being able to both understand and support each other through situations in which they would both otherwise struggle, far more comfortable than one person being the other's "rock" in every situation.

Edit: fixing formatting

[jesuisunèléve]

Did anyone understand the point dia was making?? I'm kinda confused that I woke up and saw the conversation trying to discuss phils feelings about the vday video (and other things) since we didn't ever discuss literally become a discussion about dan and his protection of phil??? What?? That was exactly the point she was arguing against in the beginning. I'm sorry but I'm kinda done with the excuse that Phil is "hard to read" and quiet because he gives away more then people choose to see, people just choose to wither a)ignore it b)pretend it doesn't exist.

While the tangent conversation of Dan protecting Phil was great and I'm happy it prompted some sort of discussion but it definitely proved the point

I thought the point you were arguing against was the idea that Phil always protects Dan? I fail to see how discussion of an instance of Dan protecting Phil was a tangent or went against what you said?

You said:

Then people treating Dan as the center of attention, as if he suffered from it. Maybe not acknowledging that his actions were to protect Phil more than himself?

Weren't you pointing out that the Phandom always portrays Phil as the rock and Dan as the weak one, Phil "saved" Dan, etc, but in reality, Phil has plenty of his own insecurities and anxieties and struggles?

And then you and others talked about how the Phandom never discusses Phil's feelings about the Voldy leak, just Dan's.

I wasn't trying to, like, refocus the discussion on Dan's feelings or something. I was trying to talk about Phil's. It's just hard to talk about Phil's feelings about Voldy without talking about Dan's actions, because Phil didn't really do anything publicly. So all we can really do is infer how Phil felt, and I guess I was just trying to say that he was probably a bit of a wreck after the leak.

Edit: And to clarify, I don't think one of them always has to be "weak" while the other is "strong." In fact, I despise that idea. And I don't like simplifying someone's response to something as "he was weak." But I do think that Dan and Phil have different ways of handing stress, sadness, etc., and that these differences often complement each other. And I also think that at times when they are both uncomfortable, scared, etc., they probably mutually draw strength/confidence from each other. But I don't see any problem with pointing out that Dan sort of publicly "took the hit" when it came to Voldy, even though (and probably partly because) Phil was probably way more deeply emotionally affected by the leak.

We really don't know Dan Howell and Phil Lester. All we see 99% of the time is DINOF and AP. There are few glimpses into who they really are, so it's difficult to make a solid opinion.

As to who is "weaker" than the other? IMHO they are both emotional train wrecks who compensate for the other in situations where the other cannot deal. Phil has said he isn't into confrontation, but Dan will be up in anyone's face if need be.

Dan wears his heart on his sleeve; Phil keeps his emotions under wrap the majority of the time (sometimes he completely and miserably fails) so it is very difficult to formulate an option to his reactions/non-reactions.

Speculation is fun, though.

Bottom line (IMHO): where one is weak the other is strong. Whatever relationship they have (no shame, I ship them like FedEx) they are very protective of it.

Phil can be a total mom, though.

[Truth_or_cliche]

I'm so here for a Phil discussion. He is fascinating to me and I would love to get to know him better (that sounds kind of creepy. I just mean through folks analyzing him not some weird stalker type of thing.)

On him internalizing his upbringing, someone gave a cool history lesson on the North a bit ago and how it's a more conservative part of England so I wonder just how conservative his actual family is and how much they influence him. He's still extremely close with them, so I would expect that they are still a big influence on him. Also, he has an older brother, which I think kind of matters too. I don't know anything about the psychology behind sibling relationships, but speaking from personal experience older brothers tend to try to toughen their younger brothers up and teach them "how to be a man". They tend to tease their younger brothers in this way as well. "You sound like a girl" or something of that sort. I know fuck all about Phil's family and they seem like lovely people honestly, but who knows maybe they're super traditional and this has influenced Phil.

I'm also curious about how him being bullied as a kid has influenced the way he handles conflict today (to freeze up and/or ignore the problem until it goes away). I don't think he's gone into much detail about it, though. Was there something in particular he was teased about? Was there physical abuse? Verbal abuse? How did he handle it? I think he's said/implied that he just endured it, but did he ever try to do something about it or did he learn pretty quickly to endure it until it was over? I wonder if this is where he developed this deer-in-headlights coping mechanism. I can see how something like that can make you insecure/nervous/anxious around other people even way after it's over. It's amazing to me that even after encountering some really shitty people at such a young age he still just wants to make people happy. It's quite admirable, he could have easily come out of an experience like that and been angry/bitter/hateful, but he doesn't appear to be at all.

Also, I finally watched Phil's live show and you guys were not joking about him being super happy in it. He was just a big ol giggly ball of happiness and excitement. Makes me super excited to see what he's got planned for this year. I guess d&p being back home, where they're most comfortable, with no real plans for the foreseeable future has been really good for them

[alittledizzy]

Okay getting these on here before I go watch the new gaming video - timestamps from Phil's liveshow yesterday.

:30 - Phil saying "Think of it like a podcast." is interesting. I kinda like that perspective on it.
1:13 - Checking to make sure he's not in his 'real' facebook.
2:55 - They're watching the Danish version of The Killing.
3:29 - The chili story is... hilarious. I love the domestic insinuation there, that Phil was making dinner for them while he/they got Netflix ready.
4:52 - Callback to him posting a pic of Dan with his finger in a glass of water. Phil did not bring attention to the opportunity for revenge from Dan.
5:59 - his biggest rebellion in school was leaning back in his chair
6:25 - Phil loosening his belt. This felt strangely open for him, not something I'd normally expect him to do.
7:30 - "What's life about if you can't eat food?"
8:04 - Phil wants to cuddle the dog. "My voice has quite a high range when talking about dogs."
10:54 - Mentions lessamazingphil having a million subscribers.
11:59 - "I should eat it and regurgitate it into your mouth."
12:54 - Reflection of professional lighting setup in front of him. No wonder he got toasty in the Adidas jacket.
13:20 - He refers to the office as "the gaming room" now.
14:30 - Tiny bit of Phil singing, as he leads into swapping December and January.
15:40 - Red velvet cake. He wants one for his birthday.
16:13 - Dan/bakery story, they are fails. "I don't know how it's possible for us to be such fails." They were both too awkward to say they didn't want all the other stuff. I am just imagining them walking out of the bakery and laughing at each other.
17:12 - Finger snapping thing.
17:26 - Belated Christmas present, cacti set.
17:50 - Phil Lester becoming the actual Cutest Person Alive when he realizes the cacti pots are magnetic.
18:11 - Deep Sleep Night Time Spray, because he's been having trouble sleeping lately. Immediately clarifies not insomnia but it takes him a while to fall asleep because his brain is creatively wired at the moment and he has too many ideas. I could actually not be more intrigued at what it is he's planning. He and Dan are both reacting very well to the fact that the next year is free of major dominating commitments.
19:37 - Pretending to be asleep. No, Phil, we know you look like asleep. We also know what Dan looks like playing with your hair.
20:00 - "Do I snore? I don't know. Um. Probably. I feel like I would snore." I think Dan would be the person to actually answer that.
20:55 - Moisturized wenii.
21:45 - Homeland opinions. "Interesting, but mildly boring."
22:17 - Death was imminent when he got his blister. His finger is ready to eat.
23:13 - Bashful over everyone laughing at his smile. He seemed to assume that before he really even checked the chat.
25:27 - Hamilton tickets. He says they didn't get them, Dan gave a more neutral response that indicated they might have.
26:17 - Fairytale of New York candle
27:16 - Won't change his youtube icon because it's classic, and he's never had another one besides that. Phil's attachment to things that he relates to beginning youtube makes me warm and fuzzy. (Like Lion, who remains steadfastly in the background of AmazingPhil videos.)
27:50 - Talks about having a selfie face/go-to photo pose face.
28:08 - "deer in the headlights" represents how he feels internally
28:20 - Adidas jacket. He will be sporty Phil all the time now.
29:31 - The jacket reminds Phil of Dan's Wildcats shirt.
29:40 - "Phil has risen." Phil doesn't understand what that means. (I also do not understand what that means.)
29:45 - Didn't love Sherlock, didn't hate it.
30:40 - "It was like something I didn't know I missed." Phil genuinely liked TCC, I'm surprised.
31:07 - Phil being excited about seeing the trick they used in tatinof. Extra cute.
32:10 - Phil loved Scorpius. Did they discuss who they would take as fictional boyfriends? Dan gets Albus, Phil gets Scorpius?
32:45 - Bork.
33:02 - Reads "scorbus" very loudly, evades shipping talk.
33:20 - Phil has not read all the Harry Potter books. Come on, voracious reader Phil. Get on it. Age is no excuse.
34:15 - Went to see La La Land after the last liveshow. No one is believing you that it was spontanious, Phil. Soz.
34:41 - Tidied his room listening to the soundtrack.
35:00 - Attack on Titan series 2.
36:28 - Watching The Story of Tatinof the other day out of nostalgia.
36:43 - "I did hear Dan's terrarium smash, and it was the saddest smash I've ever heard. He was so into making it and then for all of his dreams to be destroyed."
37:40 - Admonishing dad!Phil over the person watching his liveshow at Disney.
38:00 - Phil coming in hard with anti-artisan popcorn opinions. No tiddly little flavored bags of popcorn for Phil. He would like mountains of the stuff.
39:48 - In 2017, Phil will learn not to kill houseplants.
40:03 - "I'll just set fire to the house." Look I know you're trying to figure out how to explain moving to your audience, but lets not go that far.
40:15 - Phil's method of trying to calm someone's surgery anxiety is to tell them that the person doing the surgery has done it a lot, that they are not the only person going through this. Interesting.
41:46 - Endless show and tell.
41:18 - "Ow, I just stabbed myself on the cactus. It'd be funny if it was a joke."
42:00 - Phil talking about the artist he likes that draws funny little cartoons. 1) Has Phil ever talked about enjoying art or artists, besides Wirrow? 2) He says he saw an exhibition - google tells me that exhibition started in January so they must have seen it recently.
43:53 - [reading from chat] 'The way you were holding that, Phil. I don't know.' "Lets not think about it." So he actually acknowledged the suggestiveness of it, just didn't linger.
44;21 - "I'll just build an entire house and put it on a plinth." Yes this is acceptable moving hintage.
47:35 - University advice.
49:05 - Rainbow happy socks. He sees that he's wearing rainbow socks and then clarifies he got them "free, ages ago." but apparently only recently opened them?
49:40 - Netflix. Just finished Danish crime now, going to watch The OA
51:09 - Steven Universe
52:40 - Promos Dan's video like a good boyfriend. "I didn't watch it before he finished editing it, either." This really surprised me - I think they generally do show each other their videos before posting but if Dan genuinely felt so intense about having to go through all those memes and embarrassing moments, it sort of makes sense to me that he wouldn't want Phil with him for it in that capacity. (But that's speculation. I'd love to hear Dan's reasoning why he took this one on all by himself though.)

[shoe]

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