Dan & Phil Part 39: There's no integrity here

Our two favourite full time internet nerds who never go outside!
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alittledizzy
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000dia000 wrote:This topic name is literally "There's no Integrity Here" after all, the name reflects the content.
lmao I think that says it all, actually.

I understand the urge to find the group of phandom you feel like you fit most in; for most of us on this forum, I'm guessing the stereotype of screaming fangirl or edgy twitter user or obsessive tumblr gif reblogger doesn't feel entirely comfortable. This is our niche, to a lot of us, overly wordy rambling, analysis, and debate. This is definitely where I feel like I belong most in the phandom. But the point that we're all fans of Dan and Phil and that one sect of the fandom cult isn't somehow morally superior to another based on how they act is a pretty important one to make.
mez29
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thephandommenace wrote:Depends on what you define as the "phandom" - I mean, even saying it aloud, I feel shame, and I picture the loud embarrassing vocal entity rather than funny, creative individuals with interests in common. I feel it'd be hypocritical to think I'm "different" from or "better" than them. I've read fanfiction about two real guys, gone on YT odysseys, read timelines, replied to them on Twitter, gone swimming in Phil's eyes...
I've never been a screamer/crier/obsessed with famous people before, yet when I watched the vlog of the TATINOF M&G by the girl who sang "thank you Dan and Phil" I felt a bit overcome when I saw them come out on camera. I felt like I would scream as part of the crowd and maybe get choked up if I met them. (Might have been bc I was watching a vlog by a group of young teenagers, though.) So yeah, I guess that makes me a Phan.

Interesting you say that. They're the first YTers I've ever felt compelled to sit through a ls for. I find everyone else so boring and I usually hate listening to other people being productive while I just sit and watch, makes me feel 100x lazier. But I actually care about them now so I'm happy to listen to them babble for an hour. :D
Just to add to this discussion, I know what you mean about the phandom—this time last year I felt very ashamed about association with them and considered them a screaming mass of teenage girls, but since then I've mellowed and wouldn't mind calling myself part of the phandom: IDB has definitely helped with that. I think I (naïvely) thought that because the most visible/vocal part of the phandom is the screamy teenage part, others like me weren't around, or at least had no spaces like this one. (still wouldn't wear my D&P shirts in public though sigh) I've never been a screamer/crier either and when I went to tatinof in November I thought maybe I would be for the first time ever, but I didn't even join in with the song haha. Too Inhibited™

Agree about finding other YouTubers boring too.
queerofcups
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I have a question, since we're talking about the phandom and things. I've seen a couple dismissive/negative comments about Deppy fic as if it's the most extreme form of tinhatting, or like, reading fic is *the* most embarrassing you can do as a fan of DnP. This is super interesting to me as someone who's been in tons of RPF fandoms where fic was one of the main fan works (it seems like phandom is more about the visual works) and I'm still trying to get the lay of the land in fandom.

Would y'all say that fanfiction is seen as a more embarassing or uncomfortably extreme side of the phandom? Or was that just a few people's opinions?

(full disclosure: I am a fic writer, but don't worry, you're not gonna hurt my feelings if you say yes, I'mma still write fic :p)
Amiaw
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queerofcups wrote:I have a question, since we're talking about the phandom and things. I've seen a couple dismissive/negative comments about Deppy fic as if it's the most extreme form of tinhatting, or like, reading fic is *the* most embarrassing you can do as a fan of DnP. This is super interesting to me as someone who's been in tons of RPF fandoms where fic was one of the main fan works (it seems like phandom is more about the visual works) and I'm still trying to get the lay of the land in fandom.

Would y'all say that fanfiction is seen as a more embarassing or uncomfortably extreme side of the phandom? Or was that just a few people's opinions?

(full disclosure: I am a fic writer, but don't worry, you're not gonna hurt my feelings if you say yes, I'mma still write fic :p)
I'm jumping in too since this is an interesting conversation. When I find something that I really like I dive into it - I spend money, I watch most of the content, and I find out as much information as I can without veering into the creepy, intrusive part of the fandom. I've done this with multiple things before deppy, and will do it after deppy as well.

Now with saying that- I don't advertise the fandoms that I participate in unless I know that I'm not going to be judged for it. So irl only a couple of my close friends know I like to watch YouTube videos and I'm okay with that. However, if someone else wants to shout it from the rooftop that they are fans then that's okay- as long as they are respectful.

Now to answer you question about fanfic: I try not to read it but I have read Dan and Phil fanfic and as long as it's not too ooc or disgusting than I'm okay with it. I don't really feel like I'm reading about Dan and Phil as real people because I don't know who Dan and Phil are- I only know who I think they are.
SexyTrashCan
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The screaming phangirls the Phandom has sadly been associated with do definitely exist though. A few of my friends like Dan and Phil and most are pretty reserved and not screaming messes, but I do have one who is very... intense and occasionally makes me cringe at the fact I am a fan, or "Phan" of Deppy. It's not the majority, but sadly the minority stick out and lead to many negative beliefs about the phandom.
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mamaphan
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Hello you lovely little beans

I am proud to be part of this Phandom I have never felt so connected to a group of people before and also this is the first fandom I have ever been in. I never really cared that much about other groups or youtubers. I found dan and Phil at a time in my life that I needed escapism and somthing to make me laugh and as a super huge bonus I met some amazing people on the internet that liked as much as me. To find friends that I looked forward to hearing about their thought and views on these two guys that I stan 100%. I felt so lucky when I found gg I found these people that I enjoyed so much, I consider some of them now my real friends. And now having IDB that was created by my friends I am so proud of them we have a space that is so amazing. We don't only talk about Dan and Phil anymore. I care about my them in all aspects of their lives. Don't get me wrong Dan and Phil are still a big topic to talk about I am one of the oldest Phans and I am ok with that. I might not be as vocal as the younger phans but I don't mind the way they are. Who knows how I would of been at their age.
So welcome to all the new people and hello to all the older people. Thank you for being part of this Phandom wether you consider yourself part of it or not. We are all part of a huge group and I feel so lucky to be a part of it

I might not draw cat wishers on my face but remember
The cat whiskers they come from within
Last edited by mamaphan on Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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parallel
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queerofcups wrote:I have a question, since we're talking about the phandom and things. I've seen a couple dismissive/negative comments about Deppy fic as if it's the most extreme form of tinhatting, or like, reading fic is *the* most embarrassing you can do as a fan of DnP. This is super interesting to me as someone who's been in tons of RPF fandoms where fic was one of the main fan works (it seems like phandom is more about the visual works) and I'm still trying to get the lay of the land in fandom.

Would y'all say that fanfiction is seen as a more embarassing or uncomfortably extreme side of the phandom? Or was that just a few people's opinions?

(full disclosure: I am a fic writer, but don't worry, you're not gonna hurt my feelings if you say yes, I'mma still write fic :p)
with all of the large fandoms i've been in, fic has been central! i don't see any kind of taboo on deppy fic as far as i know. there are some infamous fics about them (the hat fic, cherry fic, chair fic, yadda yadda) but those are jokes and the vast, vast majority of fic isn't like that! personally, i read and write fic for all fandoms i'm in unabashedly, and have never received criticism for doing so, phan or not :)
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alittledizzy
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SexyTrashCan wrote:The screaming phangirls the Phandom has sadly been associated with do definitely exist though. A few of my friends like Dan and Phil and most are pretty reserved and not screaming messes, but I do have one who is very... intense and occasionally makes me cringe at the fact I am a fan, or "Phan" of Deppy. It's not the majority, but sadly the minority stick out and lead to many negative beliefs about the phandom.
I think the point people are making is more that being the screaming stereotype of a fangirl is actually not a bad thing. There's nothing inherently better about being a fan who is more reserved - it's just a matter of different preferences for different people.

As for the fanfic question: I'm obviously pretty biased in favor of it, but I'm curious to see what people say. Fic is definitely valued far under visual fan creations, and lot of that has to do with Dan and Phil themselves, I think. You see them liking platonic fanart all the time but fic by its nature is more likely to be ship based and you don't really get Dan and Phil casually promoting gen fic to normalize it - and since there are so many people in phandom that take their cues as to what is okay or not okay based heavily on what Dan and Phil themselves say and do, you get this weird culture where fanfic is kind of the dirty little secret while fanart is heavily celebrated.

And finally, mama_phan:
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I guess I might be in the minority here on this, but I genuinely don't understand just what is so bad about all the 'screaming crying fangirls' at all. Do I cringe when I see them on twitter or on the younow chat? Sure, sometimes. But I'm a 25 years old woman who used to collect newspapers and magazines to cut out photos of the people I was a fan of and made collage books of them 10-12 years ago. Almost everyone has a point in their life where they are perhaps a tad too enthusiastic and passionate about certain things and to me there is no shame in that.

Also, I don't give a half damn about what other people might think of the 'phandom'. So they (whoever they are) believe we're an obsessive,screaming,crying,unreasonable crowd, and? Why should I care? Why should anyone?
thephandommenace
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Mama_Phan wrote:Hello you lovely little beans

I am proud to be part of this Phandom I have never felt so connected to a group of people before and also this is the first fandom I have ever been in. I never really cared that much about other groups or youtubers. I found dan and Phil at a time in my life that I needed escapism and somthing to make me laugh and as a super huge bonus I met some amazing people on the internet that liked as much as me. To find friends that I looked forward to hearing about their thought and views on these two guys that I stan 100%. I felt so lucky when I found gg I found these people that I enjoyed so much, I consider some of them now my real friends. And now having IDB that was created by my friends I am so proud of them we have a space that is so amazing. We don't only talk about Dan and Phil anymore. I care about my them in all aspects of their lives. Don't get me wrong Dan and Phil are still a big topic to talk about I am one of the oldest Phans and I am ok with that. I might not be as vocal as the younger phans but I don't mind the way they are. Who knows how I would of been at their age.
So welcome to all the new people and hello to all the older people. Thank you for being part of this Phandom wether you consider yourself part of it or not. We are all part of a huge group and I feel so lucky to be a part of it

I might not draw cat wishers on my face but remember
The cat whiskers they come from within
This is beautiful, and also explains why I wanted to join as well. I was really impressed to hear people did actually meet really good friends through a mutual love of which is pretty amazing. And reading all the comments on GG and IDB and nodding along with several comments has prompted me to come out of hiding and say hello!
alittledizzy wrote:
000dia000 wrote:This topic name is literally "There's no Integrity Here" after all, the name reflects the content.
lmao I think that says it all, actually.

I understand the urge to find the group of phandom you feel like you fit most in; for most of us on this forum, I'm guessing the stereotype of screaming fangirl or edgy twitter user or obsessive tumblr gif reblogger doesn't feel entirely comfortable. This is our niche, to a lot of us, overly wordy rambling, analysis, and debate. This is definitely where I feel like I belong most in the phandom. But the point that we're all fans of Dan and Phil and that one sect of the fandom cult isn't somehow morally superior to another based on how they act is a pretty important one to make.
I agree 100% :)
queerofcups wrote:I have a question, since we're talking about the phandom and things. I've seen a couple dismissive/negative comments about Deppy fic as if it's the most extreme form of tinhatting, or like, reading fic is *the* most embarrassing you can do as a fan of DnP. This is super interesting to me as someone who's been in tons of RPF fandoms where fic was one of the main fan works (it seems like phandom is more about the visual works) and I'm still trying to get the lay of the land in fandom.

Would y'all say that fanfiction is seen as a more embarassing or uncomfortably extreme side of the phandom? Or was that just a few people's opinions?

(full disclosure: I am a fic writer, but don't worry, you're not gonna hurt my feelings if you say yes, I'mma still write fic :p)
I'm also a fic writer but I haven't yet mustered the courage to write a Deppy fic. I have 20+ fic ideas on my phone notepad and even wrote 1000 words of one before losing my nerve.

It's not that I find fanfiction shameful in general. I loooooove fanfiction. I think it's just that it's RPF I'm still getting used to. I've only dabbled in one other RPF fandom before, where the couple in question were also marketed as a comedy duo of platonic bros but with high chemistry and many moments that could be interpreted as potentially romantic. (FYI - Ryan and Colin from Whose Line. Man I loved that show.) The shame is a combination of many things. One, feeling disrespectful, by manipulating real people's actions, thoughts and feelings into my own personal fantasy. I feel bad, like I'm violating them. (Obviously it's not that dramatic and I'm in no way trying to discredit talented RPF writers.) Two, I feel uncomfortable reading really OOC fiction where it feels like the writer's projecting too much and it feels like they haven't done their research. When I write about real people I worry I might be completely off the mark. Third, the feeling of being unable to distinguish between fantasy and reality. I worry that if I ever met them one day I don't know if I'd be able to look them in the eye, because in the back of my mind I'd be thinking "I've spent hours reading angsty/fluffy/erotic fiction about you" or something along those lines. If it's crack fiction or meant to be funny/exaggerated then I feel less ashamed.

But hey, I've joined a gossip forum for the in-depth analysis and bants (so it's an aptly named forum) and I guess they must assume by now that many of the fans they meet have most likely drawn pictures of them naked and may project their daddy kink on to them. Hahaha. Oh God. I've just realised how chill they are about all this and I'm even more impressed with them. I don't know how I'd handle it if it were me.
Last edited by thephandommenace on Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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pilotlight
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I went out and got a couple of very unoriginal tattoos when I was a teenager because I was just in looovve with certain bands and songs and possibly a handsome lead singer, so I am reallllly not someone who has a right to be super critical of someone else's level of screaming/crying/obsession. Which is something I need to remind myself of more often, honestly.
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ngl i only skimmed through the discussion so sorry if i'm repeating someone:

the thing is, pre teen screaming fangirls are cringe, they are gonna find themselves cringe when they grow up, trust me i was 12 once. but that's not because they are girls, it's because they are children, and their behavior is completely normal. have you ever seen a group of 12 year old boys? my heart almost can't handle the amount of second hand embarrassment i get from their edge lord attitude. but still, a male, even teenage audience, like say pewdiepie, is treated as better than a female one, and that IS bullshit.
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Dan Howell wrote:'[someone] just sent me a message saying 'Phil'..... same'
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Veering off the main topic to start a stalker-y discussion *finger guns*
So there’s a bit of a thing going ‘round, that that drink picture Phil posted a few days ago was taken in one of the "top romantic restaurants in London": Duck & Waffle (thanks oqua for assuring me this is ok to do ), the specific moss drink is how people found it.
I saw a couple posters here at the time joke that the friends-who-cancelled-because-they-were-ill was an elaborate coverup for a date, you could very well be right. Ballsy, I think, of them to post proof of their being in a restaurant like that, especially the day after Valentine's. Even if they used friends as a coverup.
To anyone here who knows the area well enough, I'd love to know if it's actually locally known as a romantic place, outside of listicles and reviews.
Here's some comparisons to Phil's drink picture:
Imagefrom a blogspot review of the place, prasing it as "the perfect date night destination" Imagethis one looks a bit more... haggard, and it's made with hay instead, but it's the same drink in the same bowl. from a wordpress review.
I believe it's a damp/woodland negroni, which can be found on the Duck & Waffle's website menu
However, two things that makes me healthily skeptical, a) I don't know much about drinks, but I assume they could serve the same drink at different places, and b) I can't find pictures of the restaurant that match up to the 'wood table against a window with a concrete? cup holder? on the side' pictured in Phil's tweet. Hopefully they'll spill a little more in their next livestreams.
... let's talk about house plants.
SexyTrashCan
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dannonfill wrote:Veering off the main topic to start a stalker-y discussion *finger guns*
So there’s a bit of a thing going ‘round, that that drink picture Phil posted a few days ago was taken in one of the "top romantic restaurants in London": Duck & Waffle (thanks oqua for assuring me this is ok to do ), the specific moss drink is how people found it.
I saw a couple posters here at the time joke that the friends-who-cancelled-because-they-were-ill was an elaborate coverup for a date, you could very well be right. Ballsy, I think, of them to post proof of their being in a restaurant like that, especially the day after Valentine's. Even if they used friends as a coverup.
To anyone here who knows the area well enough, I'd love to know if it's actually locally known as a romantic place, outside of listicles and reviews.
Here's some comparisons to Phil's drink picture:
Imagefrom a blogspot review of the place, prasing it as "the perfect date night destination" Imagethis one looks a bit more... haggard, and it's made with hay instead, but it's the same drink in the same bowl. from a wordpress review.
I believe it's a damp/woodland negroni, which can be found on the Duck & Waffle's website menu
However, two things that makes me healthily skeptical, a) I don't know much about drinks, but I assume they could serve the same drink at different places, and b) I can't find pictures of the restaurant that match up to the 'wood table against a window with a concrete? cup holder? on the side' pictured in Phil's tweet. Hopefully they'll spill a little more in their next livestreams.
This is really intriguing!
Done some basic snooping. The Duck and Waffle seems to be the only restaurant mentioned that serves a woodland negroni. Just putting that out there.
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SexyTrashCan
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Also found that it is listed on a list of the" 22 of the world’s most romantic restaurants with ridiculously sexy views" (The Duck and Waffle is the highest up restaurant in the UK)
Pretty highly praised for being romantic.
I feel almost dirty reading so deeply into this.
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SexyTrashCan
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Also if you google "romantic restaurants in London with a view" Duck and Waffle is pretty near the top
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SexyTrashCan wrote:
dannonfill wrote:Veering off the main topic to start a stalker-y discussion *finger guns*
So there’s a bit of a thing going ‘round, that that drink picture Phil posted a few days ago was taken in one of the "top romantic restaurants in London": Duck & Waffle (thanks oqua for assuring me this is ok to do ), the specific moss drink is how people found it.
I saw a couple posters here at the time joke that the friends-who-cancelled-because-they-were-ill was an elaborate coverup for a date, you could very well be right. Ballsy, I think, of them to post proof of their being in a restaurant like that, especially the day after Valentine's. Even if they used friends as a coverup.
To anyone here who knows the area well enough, I'd love to know if it's actually locally known as a romantic place, outside of listicles and reviews.
Here's some comparisons to Phil's drink picture:
Imagefrom a blogspot review of the place, prasing it as "the perfect date night destination" Imagethis one looks a bit more... haggard, and it's made with hay instead, but it's the same drink in the same bowl. from a wordpress review.
I believe it's a damp/woodland negroni, which can be found on the Duck & Waffle's website menu
However, two things that makes me healthily skeptical, a) I don't know much about drinks, but I assume they could serve the same drink at different places, and b) I can't find pictures of the restaurant that match up to the 'wood table against a window with a concrete? cup holder? on the side' pictured in Phil's tweet. Hopefully they'll spill a little more in their next livestreams.
This is really intriguing!
Done some basic snooping. The Duck and Waffle seems to be the only restaurant mentioned that serves a woodland negroni. Just putting that out there.
And it's basically a sky bar, being 40 floors up and all....
SexyTrashCan
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Definitely known for being romantic ^.^.
Comes up in all sort of lists for romantic restaurants in London.
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alittledizzy
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Not to pop the 'romantic date' bubble but Dan and Phil do have a history of taking other people to Duck and Waffle - in fact, they went with Cat in 2015.

Also I saw someone point out that the two-person tables in that restaurant are marble ones, the wooden tables like shown in Phil's picture are typically bigger tables meant for parties of more than two people. (Have not verified that myself though.)
SexyTrashCan
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Interesting. Will have to look at the interior
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SexyTrashCan
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As alittledizzy said the larger tables all seem to be wood.
Haven't seen pictures of tables for two yet so will look for them or if anyone else finds some before me
Also like to point out though the surface Phil's drink was resting on seemingly had a less tarnished finish than these tables do if that changes anything.
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SexyTrashCan
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Yeah it does seem tables with two seats are made of marble.
Like to point out that the area that Phil took a picture at doesn't match up any picture I have seen (any other super sleuths around?)
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hello.

on the whole cringe phandom discussion thing, i was about.. 14 or 15 when i first got into them. i immediately was head over heels with them, went on districtlines not soon after i found out about them and begged my mom to get me the llama hat and the dan shirt with him riding the llama. i wore it everywhere and constantly wore my llama hat whenever i could. i still have the llama hat and wear it on occasion. i was sort of cringe. i would talk about them a /lot/ in school with the few friends i had i think and would always reference them, but i don't think i screamed about them or anything. i have written phanfiction about them, two to be exact. i wrote them in school when i didn't have too many friends. i actually got my best friend into them. she loved phil and i loved dan and.. we both constantly talked about them. that was back in 2012/2013 tho.

flash forward to a few years later, i got back into them when i was 18. i had many obsessions before this time, of course. i'm back into them now, more mature about it and stuff i think even though i post about them constantly on facebook and tumblr (which makes me feel bad bc i feel like a 'cringe' phandom member bc you say the tumblr ones are kind of cringe) but..eh. idk.

i'm bad at talking and explaining stuff sorry
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:transheart:
SexyTrashCan
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Random Dan tweet
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SexyTrashCan wrote: Random Dan tweet
I can totally see this happen.
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