captainspacecoat wrote:All teenagers are embarrassing to an extent, but I think it's entirely unfair to compare the two and, to go further, excuse sexism among young boys as 'oh, that's just what they do all the time'.
I never did, I was being sarcastic. Sorry, if it didn't come through. I agree with you on "young girls deserve better", but I'll also stand by straight edgy male (I love me some George Carlin).
cherrybomb3 wrote:i think its a bit of a false equivalence to compare edgy teen boys to teen girls in terms of problematic behavior. the former group constructs their entire identity around being edgy and anti-liberal, which makes them a lot worse than teen girls who occasionally act weirdly.
I just don't see how is that bothersome. Even if you demonize edgy boys to be an epitome of all things anti-liberal, they do not have any impact on the current state of the world whatsoever. Do you think these teenage groups and fandoms are breeding grounds for alt-rights? The world was fucked up long before that.
You're absolutely right the world has always been shitty, but there're reasons for that continuing or even regressing and to some extent, this idea that 'problematic'=cool, edgy, funny, etc. is to blame. Internet trolls and 'performance artists' are usually all for this behaviour and it becomes kinda disturbing when the 'performance becomes reality', paraphrasing from this article: http://www.vox.com/2016/11/23/13659634/ ... t-trolling
malday, thanks for great post!
There definitely was a war between 4chan and tumblr a couple of years ago, idk what's happening now, but here's a video explaining gamergate, and the main sources of conflict between these two platforms/groups of people. (or at least what's happened in the past and it still kinda affects the present)
I wish I could like your post malday
Dan seems to struggle a bit at the moment, and seeking validation from an 'outside' perspective could be a part of that, and the 'edgy straight male' crowd is pretty much the one that doesn't already support him.
Last edited by alittledizzy on Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:fixed youtube embed tag
captainspacecoat wrote:All teenagers are embarrassing to an extent, but I think it's entirely unfair to compare the two and, to go further, excuse sexism among young boys as 'oh, that's just what they do all the time'.
I never did, I was being sarcastic. Sorry, if it didn't come through. I agree with you on "young girls deserve better", but I'll also stand by straight edgy male (I love me some George Carlin).
cherrybomb3 wrote:i think its a bit of a false equivalence to compare edgy teen boys to teen girls in terms of problematic behavior. the former group constructs their entire identity around being edgy and anti-liberal, which makes them a lot worse than teen girls who occasionally act weirdly.
I just don't see how is that bothersome. Even if you demonize edgy boys to be an epitome of all things anti-liberal, they do not have any impact on the current state of the world whatsoever. Do you think these teenage groups and fandoms are breeding grounds for alt-rights? The world was fucked up long before that.
You're absolutely right the world has always been shitty, but there're reasons for that continuing or even regressing and to some extent, this idea that 'problematic'=cool, edgy, funny, etc. is to blame. Internet trolls and 'performance artists' are usually all for this behaviour and it becomes kinda disturbing when the 'performance becomes reality', paraphrasing from this article: http://www.vox.com/2016/11/23/13659634/ ... t-trolling
malday, thanks for great post!
There definitely was a war between 4chan and tumblr a couple of years ago, idk what's happening now, but here's a video explaining gamergate, and the main sources of conflict between these two platforms/groups of people. (or at least what's happened in the past and it still kinda affects the present)
Dan seems to struggle a bit at the moment, and seeking validation from an 'outside' perspective could be a part of that, and the 'edgy straight male' crowd is pretty much the one that doesn't already support him.
This video here explains the situation of "war" between 4chan and Tumblr. Note: this is satiricall, and even though the creator probably attempts objectivity, they are a 4chan sympathizer and their main audience are that demographic. Still kind of funny video, bad situation.
[YouTube]http://youtube/SvjwXhCNZcU[/YouTube]
Also, I'm not sure that Dan's reference to certain YouTubers necessarily means that he wishes to do content like them. If that was the case, because Dan won't stop talking about Amazing-Something guy, you think he would change his video style into a bubbly vlogging series? The whole issue though is hard to rationalize though, at least for me. I find that in one way, Dan wants recognition and likeability from the "ddude-bro"audience, due to probably feelings of alienation from the phandom and shipping culture (that's a whole OTHER story in itself) I don't think this necessarily means that Dan will suddenly turn into a "4chan autist." Like people said, Dan is practically a SJW himself, is mindful and supporting of issues that edgy-bros like to make fun of for their own amusement.
I don't think other people here will appreciate me saying this, but I don't think it's fair to lump a male audience together, just as it's not fair to lump a female audience all together. Dan probably just wants to make content that caters towards a broader audience, rather than just attract people for his looks or Tumblr style "relatability". The kind of content Dan makes now, won't change, but I agree that what will change is that Dan will make content that might attract a new audience, but it won't be an edgy-bro kind of extremists.
I think this is the kind of thing, however, that Dan would deny if asked outright. I think he would be a little indenial if he was asked if he resents aspects of his phandom, his branding or his channel. The kind of content YouTubers valued in 2006-2009 was blogging, and now Dan is trapped in that era and probably wishes he could just delete his channel and his history and just start all over again. He's probably trapped by preconceived notions-about himself, his sexuality, his relationship with Phil, an " outsiders" view of the phandom, the phandom's behaviour itself, and how "bloggers" are seen as the scum of YouTube by edgy websites like reddit and 4chan, where the usual creators are circle-jerked to death. If Dan has started YouTube when he was older, more life-experienced and not trapped by the "box" he is in, I feel as if he would be much happier.
Would he be as successful? I doubt. The phandom, while it has it's quirks, it's pain, and it's confining nature, it is indubitably loyal and devoted to Dan. And that's something that can't be guaranteed.
Last edited by 000dia000 on Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Amiaw wrote:I don't know if it's just me but Dan and Phil's behavior over the last few months, combined with their slightly different behavior these last two weeks and Dans obvious stress is making me nervous. Not necessarily In a bad way but I feel like they are on the edge of a big personal change. I hope it's a positive change (and the kind of positive change depends on who you ask I guess) but it seems like they are gearing up for something
Hi, another lurker here coming out of lurkdom. But there's something that caught my eye in Phil's live show about presents which could do with this? At the beginning when he gets asked to try on the burger socks... he says "I'm not going to put my stinky feet in my...." pauses, laughs and then changes it to "in the present for my friend" it's about 3 mins in.
I could be reading waaaay into it! But if he was just going to say friend, why did he pause and change what he said?
presents for his secret partner
no, i'm pretty sure he just didn't knew how to finish that sentence
apparently this friend he was talking about is wirrow as his birthday was coincidentally on march 11th (saturday, and this mysterious friend had their birthday celebration on saturday) I think it's safe to assume those presents were for him.
this may sound snappy, sorry if it does, but has dan ever said anything that genuinely seems like alt right edgelord pandering? it seems like this idea of content changing or brand transformations to suit an admittedly toxic audience is a bit hyperbolic and is not really reflective of the content hes been producing recently
oh also, zvezdochka, as someone who frequents reddit i can tell you that there is 100% a deeply ingrained androcentric anti-'sjw' mainstream culture that exists there. and to claim that they have no effect when /r/the_donald is one of the most popular subs is pretty short-sighted. even reddit!liberals consider anyone to the left of theresa may to be a raving lunatic sjw, and that belief is replicated by the common reaction to trans, black, or muslim-orientated posts on the front page.
000dia000 wrote:
Also, I'm not sure that Dan's reference to certain YouTubers necessarily means that he wishes to do content like them. If that was the case, because Dan won't stop talking about Amazing-Something guy, you think he would change his video style into a bubbly vlogging series? The whole issue though is hard to rationalize though, at least for me. I find that in one way, Dan wants recognition and likeability from the "ddude-bro"audience, due to probably feelings of alienation from the phandom and shipping culture (that's a whole OTHER story in itself) I don't think this necessarily means that Dan will suddenly turn into a "4chan autist." Like people said, Dan is practically a SJW himself, is mindful and supporting of issues that edgy-bros like to make fun of for their own amusement.
I don't think other people here will appreciate me saying this, but I don't think it's fair to lump a male audience together, just as it's not fair to lump a female audience all together. Dan probably just wants to make content that caters towards a broader audience, rather than just attract people for his looks or Tumblr style "relatability". The kind of content Dan makes now, won't change, but I agree that what will change is that Dan will make content that might attract a new audience, but it won't be an edgy-bro kind of extremists.
I think this is the kind of thing, however, that Dan would deny if asked outright. I think he would be a little indenial if he was asked if he resents aspects of his phandom, his branding or his channel. The kind of content YouTubers valued in 2006-2009 was blogging, and now Dan is trapped in that era and probably wishes he could just delete his channel and his history and just start all over again. He's probably trapped by preconceived notions-about himself, his sexuality, his relationship with Phil, an " outsiders" view of the phandom, the phandom's behaviour itself, and how "bloggers" are seen as the scum of YouTube by edgy websites like reddit and 4chan, where the usual creators are circle-jerked to death. If Dan has started YouTube when he was older, more life-experienced and not trapped by the "box" he is in, I feel as if he would be much happier.
Would he be as successful? I doubt. The phandom, while it has it's quirks, it's pain, and it's confining nature, it is indubitably loyal and devoted to Dan. And that's something that can't be guaranteed.
The bolded part is what I also find hard to express but was my point earlier: there is a clear cut between the content he makes and the kind of people he would like to be friends with on twitter or so. Maybe that's the problem: there is the stuff he does for a living and then there is his dicking around on the internet (like we all do) for his own entertainment and interests. Since he's such a public figure and all his social media is tied to his brand, it's impossible to seperate the two.
I also highly doubt that Dan would ever go down the edgy non-pc road, and also agree that we shouldn't lump all of straight-male creators together. I just have the feeling that Dan is more interested in his cultural preferences sometimes than acknowleding something is problematic. And to that I can relate to very much - if you're a fan of something and then find out about it's problematic nature and maybe even have to let it go because of that - that's really a harsh thing.
Oh, there you have it Dan, new #relatable video idea. You could even talk about Kanye finally lol
Also thanks to ocelot for posting that Folding Ideas video! It's probably one of the best in explaining the situation and why this fight keeps happening.
That channel is also one of my favorites and, I just realized, a supreme example of a (I assume) straight white guy talking about pretentious shit like cultural influences on media, cinematography of cult movies and such, while also firmly being on the sj side of things. There is a role model right there
mio wrote:if you're a fan of something and then find out about it's problematic nature and maybe even have to let it go because of that - that's really a harsh thing.
Oh, there you have it Dan, new #relatable video idea. You could even talk about Kanye finally lol
Savannah Brown’s made a video on this (kinda), it’s called “Is art separate from the artist?”, and that was such a good video and I thought the topic was amazing, really thought-provoking. I’d absolutely love for Dan to make something like this, it’d be gorgeous, right? I imagine for him the answer would be “yes, obviously. It depends though.” – and then he just sits there for like 10 minutes elaborating on that... Let me dream, okay.
In other news, I‘ve been listening to Dan’s fave number one (and it's surprisingly not Kanye) Frank Ocean quite a lot lately, and there’s this amazing song called “Wiseman” – it’s about compassion, the lyrics are incredible and it literally brought tears to my eyes. And there’s more songs like that by Frank (by the way, he's kind of a slow worker, is very careful about the stuff he creates and had been on a hiatus for like 4 years - truly Dan’s inspiration.) So what I wanted to say is that if Dan listens to and enjoys the things like what Frank makes, it actually says a lot about him as a person. He’ll be an edgelord maybe in the next life.. I’m joking.
cherrybomb3 wrote:oh also, zvezdochka, as someone who frequents reddit i can tell you that there is 100% a deeply ingrained androcentric anti-'sjw' mainstream culture that exists there. and to claim that they have no effect when /r/the_donald is one of the most popular subs is pretty short-sighted. even reddit!liberals consider anyone to the left of theresa may to be a raving lunatic sjw, and that belief is replicated by the common reaction to trans, black, or muslim-orientated posts on the front page.
[offtopic]I don't think it's fair to define reddit as a hive mind whole considering the wide range of its problems. It does have its problems, but what you describe is much less prevalent once you leave the defaults. Hell, I would take /r/ainbow over entirety of tumblr
That said, ironic as it sounds, pretty much absolute most of reddit hates the_dorito and the allied variety of altright subreddits[/offtopic]
I'm oddly bothered by this assumption that these so-called "meme edgelords" Dan supposedly loves and seeks approval from are all alt-right assholes. You can be a straight white guy who loves The Meme™ and who goes on reddit without being alt-right??? Or an asshole??? Or any of these descriptors we've given this generic image of Dan's preferred audience. Dan can also choose to make edgier videos without them attacking a subset of people. (Though he's not likely to.) And where did this all stem from? Because admittedly I don't watch a ton of his videos, but Anthony Fantano rates music. From what I know - and please correct me if I'm wrong - there's nothing alt-right or particularly edgy about him.
Sure, I don't love the way the guy addressed Dan's fans or that Dan is obviously never going to say anything to oppose that, but it's far from being an offensive 4Chan troll.
Dan also happens to like things that aren't wholesome. He likes "problematic" shit, but I'm sure we'll all agree it doesn't make him a problematic person. IDK. This whole discussion's just a bit off-putting to me and idk how to express my 2 cents.
cherrybomb3 wrote:oh also, zvezdochka, as someone who frequents reddit i can tell you that there is 100% a deeply ingrained androcentric anti-'sjw' mainstream culture that exists there. and to claim that they have no effect when /r/the_donald is one of the most popular subs is pretty short-sighted. even reddit!liberals consider anyone to the left of theresa may to be a raving lunatic sjw, and that belief is replicated by the common reaction to trans, black, or muslim-orientated posts on the front page.
[offtopic]I don't think it's fair to define reddit as a hive mind whole considering the wide range of its problems. It does have its problems, but what you describe is much less prevalent once you leave the defaults. Hell, I would take /r/ainbow over entirety of tumblr
That said, ironic as it sounds, pretty much absolute most of reddit hates the_dorito and the allied variety of altright subreddits[/offtopic]
see this is this thing. the problem goes far deeper than clear, surface level idiots like the misogynistic, deliberately edgy rightist frat boys on subs like the_fuhrer and /r/tia. the reality is theres a far more insidious and unspoken form of conservatism that permeates mainstream reddit. go on /r/jokes and youll undoubtedly find edgy 'jokes' about blm and feminism. same with /r/pics - whenever a social issue is touched upon, out come the closeted conservatives. the undercurrent of anti-sjw (i hate using that term, mainly because it credits an archetype that doesnt fucking exist outside of the internets imagination) thought is dominant in almost every mainstream, featured sub. it manifests itself in various ways (one of the worst being 'im a liberal (poc/lgbtq+ individual/muslim/women) ... but those bloody sjws amirite'. just because its not overt doesnt mean its not there, even if they are trashing the_reich, the underlying dumb androcentrism is still there
also i agree with you that there are a lot of subs that arent like the rest in the slightest - /r/negareddit and /r/lsc being some of my faves - but they are in the minority
cherrybomb3 wrote:oh also, zvezdochka, as someone who frequents reddit i can tell you that there is 100% a deeply ingrained androcentric anti-'sjw' mainstream culture that exists there. and to claim that they have no effect when /r/the_donald is one of the most popular subs is pretty short-sighted. even reddit!liberals consider anyone to the left of theresa may to be a raving lunatic sjw, and that belief is replicated by the common reaction to trans, black, or muslim-orientated posts on the front page.
[offtopic]I don't think it's fair to define reddit as a hive mind whole considering the wide range of its problems. It does have its problems, but what you describe is much less prevalent once you leave the defaults. Hell, I would take /r/ainbow over entirety of tumblr
That said, ironic as it sounds, pretty much absolute most of reddit hates the_dorito and the allied variety of altright subreddits[/offtopic]
see this is this thing. the problem goes far deeper than clear, surface level idiots like the misogynistic, deliberately edgy rightist frat boys on subs like the_fuhrer and /r/tia. the reality is theres a far more insidious and unspoken form of conservatism that permeates mainstream reddit. go on /r/jokes and youll undoubtedly find edgy 'jokes' about blm and feminism. same with /r/pics - whenever a social issue is touched upon, out come the closeted conservatives. the undercurrent of anti-sjw (i hate using that term, mainly because it credits an archetype that doesnt fucking exist outside of the internets imagination) thought is dominant in almost every mainstream, featured sub. it manifests itself in various ways (one of the worst being 'im a liberal (poc/lgbtq+ individual/muslim/women) ... but those bloody sjws amirite'. just because its not overt doesnt mean its not there, even if they are trashing the_reich, the underlying dumb androcentrism is still there
also i agree with you that there are a lot of subs that arent like the rest in the slightest - /r/negareddit and /r/lsc being some of my faves - but they are in the minority
Here is your problem. You are talking about default subs. Many many subs are not dedicated to shitting on reddit in general but still maintain a healthy,if less curated than tumblr, culture. There is a reason going default is referred to as death of a subreddit
cherrybomb3 wrote:oh also, zvezdochka, as someone who frequents reddit i can tell you that there is 100% a deeply ingrained androcentric anti-'sjw' mainstream culture that exists there. and to claim that they have no effect when /r/the_donald is one of the most popular subs is pretty short-sighted. even reddit!liberals consider anyone to the left of theresa may to be a raving lunatic sjw, and that belief is replicated by the common reaction to trans, black, or muslim-orientated posts on the front page.
[offtopic]I don't think it's fair to define reddit as a hive mind whole considering the wide range of its problems. It does have its problems, but what you describe is much less prevalent once you leave the defaults. Hell, I would take /r/ainbow over entirety of tumblr
That said, ironic as it sounds, pretty much absolute most of reddit hates the_dorito and the allied variety of altright subreddits[/offtopic]
see this is this thing. the problem goes far deeper than clear, surface level idiots like the misogynistic, deliberately edgy rightist frat boys on subs like the_fuhrer and /r/tia. the reality is theres a far more insidious and unspoken form of conservatism that permeates mainstream reddit. go on /r/jokes and youll undoubtedly find edgy 'jokes' about blm and feminism. same with /r/pics - whenever a social issue is touched upon, out come the closeted conservatives. the undercurrent of anti-sjw (i hate using that term, mainly because it credits an archetype that doesnt fucking exist outside of the internets imagination) thought is dominant in almost every mainstream, featured sub. it manifests itself in various ways (one of the worst being 'im a liberal (poc/lgbtq+ individual/muslim/women) ... but those bloody sjws amirite'. just because its not overt doesnt mean its not there, even if they are trashing the_reich, the underlying dumb androcentrism is still there
also i agree with you that there are a lot of subs that arent like the rest in the slightest - /r/negareddit and /r/lsc being some of my faves - but they are in the minority
Here is your problem. You are talking about default subs. Many many subs are not dedicated to shitting on reddit in general but still maintain a healthy,if less curated than tumblr, culture. There is a reason going default is referred to as death of a subreddit
rizzo praise be upon your post
yes, because its the mainstream subs that are the largest parts of the site. i could point at a right wing blog on tumblr and say "see, all of tumblr isnt left leaning!" like yeah, true, but that doesnt mean that centre left thought isnt dominant on tumblr. the same principle applies to reddit; there are lots of brilliant, less known subs, but the mainstream culture there is very much androcentric
for instance, /r/ainbow has ~43,700 subscribers. by comparison, /r/pics has ~15,800,000, and on a thread about a homeless man criticising a decision to put bloody spikes in a place where homeless people stay comments like
"Wtf, if i owned a business or any other property that had a problem with homeless people sleeping on it i might get spikes too. Imagine showing up to work and having to fear the dirty homeless guy who might be mentally ill sleeping buy the door. Then you have to shoo him off which might just provoke his anger. There's a perfectly good public park somewhere go sleep there. Them being homeless sounds like their problem. Feeling safe on my own property or while at work sounds like my or my employer's priority"
and
"All of these sjw like to stand up for homeless people but I've lived near a homeless shelter and it's horrible. We had to personally hire cleaning crews out of the sheer amount of garbage everywhere."
are sitting at 737 and 394 upvotes respectively
i love reddit, but to act as if it doesnt have a clearly conservative mainstream culture would be ignoring the reality of the site
They look so adorable and cozy and squishyyyyy!
Was about to get a t-shirt and the plushies, then recounted how much it would be in my currency and decided to nah... are those normal british prices on these things?
PolarFox wrote: Was about to get a t-shirt and the plushies, then recounted how much it would be in my currency and decided to nah... are those normal british prices on these things?
The plushies are about £10 each, which is quite normal for a stuffed toy and they look quite big so I'd even say it's cheap for a nice quality plushie. My only experience buying plushies is getting some at the Disney shop though and those were really expensive so maybe these just seem cheap to me in relation. The shirts are a bit expensive though. 20 quid for a T-Shirt is a lot but then again not that much more than I usually pay for a nice jumper at H&M for example and it's not any normal old T-Shirt so I think the prices are okay.
Apart from wanting to pinch Dan's cheeks, I'm so mesmerized by Phil's dilated pupils. THEY ARE HUGE. (it's fascinating to me as a very dark-eyed person surrounded by many very dark-eyed people everyday)
Also Dan's reply on his Facebook comment about them putting up with each other: "we are honestly each other's punishment" kinky
The shirts are a bit expensive though. 20 quid for a T-Shirt is a lot but then again not that much more than I usually pay for a nice jumper at H&M for example and it's not any normal old T-Shirt so I think the prices are okay.