Daniel & Phil Part 44: This isn't a forever home

Our two favourite full time internet nerds who never go outside!
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xaephan
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SexyTrashCan wrote:Not trying to go off on yo guys but really this makes my blood boil. Any person I've met who is from a different culture (China. Japan, etc) LOVES sharing their culture with people who are white like myself. The only people I see mad about this bs is white people. What exactly are you trying to achieve, I live in Wales and I see people who are English wearing the Welsh flag or using Welsh phrases or calling Welsh a beautiful language, should I yell at them for cultural appropriation and turn them bitter?
All this is is two guys who happen to be white. Sorry, can't fucking help that, who love Japanese culture and I know Japanese people themselves love people loving their culture. You achieve nothing by doing this as an in a way ignorant white person but cause drama. You are not exactly single handedly preserving the culture of Japan.
I don't really want to get into the whole cultural appropriation or reverse racism thing, but I just want to express my view on this particular argument. For context, I'm a Chinese-born Canadian.

It's true that lots of people are happy to be sharing their culture, but that's very different than people who aren't of that culture profiting from said culture, especially in a way that can have bad connotations. For myself, I love to talk to people who are interested in Chinese traditions and the country itself. My workplace has a mini-celebration every Chinese New Year, and a lot of us will bring in snacks for everyone or dress up a bit and show off our traditional garb.

If someone who isn't Chinese is interested, I'd gladly show or tell them all about our cities or sights or political atmosphere. If someone tells me they find China really fascinating or they'd love to visit one day, then that's wonderful! However, if that someone decides to make and sell badly-done knock-off qipao or something, I'd be a bit miffed. Just because "Japanese people themselves love people loving their culture", it doesn't mean that it's automatically not possible for cultural appropriation to exist.

Of course, it's a hard line to draw in the sand, because just having a flag or some writing isn't offensive in and of itself (btw, the writing on the dnp stuff is mostly katakana, not kanji). In this case, as jaej said, there's a prevalent weeaboo thing that makes the usage especially iffy.

Personally, if they used Chinese (just for giggles, here's a translation of 'Dan and Phil' that phonically sounds right but means something strange: 蛋和肥鹿. Katakana doesn't really assign meaning to the sounds, but Chinese does--that thing there means 'egg and fat deer') on their shirts and used a background of the Great Wall or something, I wouldn't get up in arms about it, but I wouldn't like it much either.

As I said though, it's a hard line in the sand to draw and I don't really want to get into it, I just find this particular argument very grating.
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onetruetrash
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iero wrote:new vid was so fun and had me laughing out loud

SexyTrashCan wrote:
iero wrote:gona share my 2 cents. i personally wouldn't feel comfortable buying the japan merch. i would if it was a japanese brand/somebody japanese made it but d&p don't even know japanese and they used it purely for aesthetic purposes like using a language as a costume. just doesn't sit right with me sorry
I really don't want t pick fights but that's how it ended up but like I said people love sharing their culture and they have no issue with this, so what exactly is the issue?
SexyTrashCan wrote: Exactly! But honestly raising this point is pointless because some people don't listen to logic
ok.....but this is just my opinion and how i personally feel about the matter. your opinion is also an opinion and not 'logic'. i'm not saying my opinion is right or wrong because i'm white so i'm not speaking on behalf of people who are japanese. i just personally don't want to wear a language i don't understand that was put on clothing for aesthetic purposes. some people love 'sharing' (it's not d&ps to share) their culture but there's also people that don't.
Agreed. SexyTrashCan, you have the right to your opinion and I honestly understand both sides of the argument, but you're being unnecessarily rude. Saying that they aren't at all logical and that you hope they're trolling is really condescending. I used to say and do things like that too, but now when I see those things, it just seems really immature. No one is telling you that you're dumb for having your opinion, so there's no need to say that to others.
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myllakka wrote: Personally, if they used Chinese (just for giggles, here's a translation of 'Dan and Phil' that phonically sounds right but means something strange: 蛋和肥鹿. Katakana doesn't really assign meaning to the sounds, but Chinese does--that thing there means 'egg and fat deer') on their shirts and used a background of the Great Wall or something, I wouldn't get up in arms about it, but I wouldn't like it much either.
the rest of what you've said makes sense and feels true, but i just really want to say that this made me laugh so hard and it made my day almost as much as the dapg vid did. 'egg and fat deer' indeed, tysm

edit: to be clear, this is funny bc i was picturing them doing this and then ppl making fun of them for it and calling them 'egg' and 'fat deer'. not bc they should or anything, just the idea that they would and then ppl dragging them for it.
Last edited by VengefulBlue on Sat Apr 29, 2017 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SquishPhan
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Just want to point out that we have a thread to talk about Sociopolitical Issues.
http://indepthbants.com/topic170-150.html
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SquishPhan wrote:Just want to point out that we have a thread to talk about Sociopolitical Issues.
http://indepthbants.com/topic170-150.html
For the moment I'm fine with it being in the main thread, as long as it relates to Dan and Phil.

If people want to talk about in a broader sense, please do take it to the sociopolitical thread or make a new thread in the general section. I, for one, do appreciate the discussion that's happening, as long as it stays civil.
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malday
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So, depps played board games with wirrony
Last edited by malday on Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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xaephan
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VengefulBlue wrote:
myllakka wrote: Personally, if they used Chinese (just for giggles, here's a translation of 'Dan and Phil' that phonically sounds right but means something strange: 蛋和肥鹿. Katakana doesn't really assign meaning to the sounds, but Chinese does--that thing there means 'egg and fat deer') on their shirts and used a background of the Great Wall or something, I wouldn't get up in arms about it, but I wouldn't like it much either.
the rest of what you've said makes sense and feels true, but i just really want to say that this made me laugh so hard and it made my day almost as much as the dapg vid did. 'egg and fat deer' indeed, tysm

edit: to be clear, this is funny bc i was picturing them doing this and then ppl making fun of them for it and calling them 'egg' and 'fat deer'. not bc they should or anything, just the idea that they would and then ppl dragging them for it.
Ahaha, I'm glad you found it funny! Translation is really more of an art than a science when it comes to names and places, so there's always lots of ways to make it interesting. They both have very common names though, so if they ever try to translate into Mandarin, they're covered. I do love that mental image though
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/fɪl lɛstɚ/ wrote:
saffarinda wrote:an argument over them using a different language on their merch... really guys? i'm all up for calling out cultural appropriation but this is just??

also, reverse racism does exist - i have a white polish friend who could prove that to you (try not to forget about white minorities as well!)
Agreed. I just think that language is not the same as culture. To me, language isn't something that belongs to anyone because we all have the capacity to learn different language, change language, have individual differences in dialects and usage, etc. etc. etc. Cultural appropriation is real but I don't think that Dan and Phil putting some Japanese graphemes on a shirt is something that anyone should be too concerned about.
There are much worse things to be upset over in this world.
Your entire post is just thank you
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malday wrote:So, depps played board games with wirrony
still waiting for that board game on the gaming channel
25/04/2017 - #blessed
SexyTrashCan
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onetruetrash wrote:
iero wrote:new vid was so fun and had me laughing out loud

SexyTrashCan wrote:
iero wrote:gona share my 2 cents. i personally wouldn't feel comfortable buying the japan merch. i would if it was a japanese brand/somebody japanese made it but d&p don't even know japanese and they used it purely for aesthetic purposes like using a language as a costume. just doesn't sit right with me sorry
I really don't want t pick fights but that's how it ended up but like I said people love sharing their culture and they have no issue with this, so what exactly is the issue?
SexyTrashCan wrote: Exactly! But honestly raising this point is pointless because some people don't listen to logic
ok.....but this is just my opinion and how i personally feel about the matter. your opinion is also an opinion and not 'logic'. i'm not saying my opinion is right or wrong because i'm white so i'm not speaking on behalf of people who are japanese. i just personally don't want to wear a language i don't understand that was put on clothing for aesthetic purposes. some people love 'sharing' (it's not d&ps to share) their culture but there's also people that don't.
Agreed. SexyTrashCan, you have the right to your opinion and I honestly understand both sides of the argument, but you're being unnecessarily rude. Saying that they aren't at all logical and that you hope they're trolling is really condescending. I used to say and do things like that too, but now when I see those things, it just seems really immature. No one is telling you that you're dumb for having your opinion, so there's no need to say that to others.
I was not talking about Iero in this case at all. I was talking about allsaints because they were talking in cryptoid speak (,,, etc).
Honestly I got very annoyed because I've seen shit like this before but more extreme on Tumblr where people think it's ok to be racist to white people etc and then white people themselves getting defensive over other cultures and there was that one case I recall where a white person said a Japanese person should be offended and was annoyed that they weren't. I apologise for maybe stepping over the line. Cooled off a bit now.
On another note reverse racism does exist. But it shouldn't even be called reverse racism it should just be called racism. Simple.
As others have said before, there is a line between appropriating culture and loving a culture and I think that Deppy are firmly in the culture lover group.
Gonna sleep this off .
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xaephan
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malday wrote:So, depps played board games with wirrony
Ooh, I wonder if this dnp's new place? The white table and gray table runner would fit in with what we've seen of the upstairs lounge's couch and carpet. Is their entire private areas all moon-themed? Dan sure went hard for that aesthetic.
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000dia000 wrote:
allsaintshowell wrote:reverse racism doesn't exist and your white faves are problematic goodbye i'm not discussing this matter anymore like,,, the fact still stands that this isn't okay and i'm not gonna deal with white people bitching at me for calling my faves out #done
This may be a mindset for an American, but I'd just like to say that there other places in the world where inequality still exists, for all different types of people, and erasing people's struggles is doing the opposite of good. "Reverse racism" may not exist for you, but that doesn't mean there are groups and communities of white people being discriminated against.

I can see your point of how their use of the Japanese language may be ignorant for some, but there's nothing malicious about the use. Where exactly does the line of cultural appropriation draw the line? Where's the point where people can have a genuine appreciation and draw inspiration from other cultures?
white people are not discriminated against and oppressed on the worldwide and systematic scale that people of color are, so "racism" isn't the proper term to use when talking about any discrimination white people may face. people of color saying white people shouldn't profit off of a non-western language is not one.

culture and language when you're a person of color are so closely related. it's unheard of for an arab person, for instance, to call their father anything other than "baba" regardless of where they live because it's so ingrained in our culture and it's weird to call your father "dad". the reason why i'm so about deppy selling merch in a non-western language is because wearing that language is so politicized for poc. i have a hoodie that i love that has "zayn" written on it in arabic; when i was in england over the summer and brexit happened, my white, american mother called me and told me not to wear the hoodie out because things were so tense. white people profit off of the culture of people of color while we get racially profiled and sometimes even abused because of it. deppy making merch with a non-western language is a form of cultural appropriation because it takes something from a culture of color and monetizes it for the white #aesthetic. they've even marketed the caps saying "rep us in a nondescript way in this language that no one understands!" and it's incredibly insensitive.

i don't believe deppy meant any harm by it and i'm not trying to come for them. i'm just expressing my displeasure in their insensitivity and ranting about it. if anyone wants to talk about why this is bad more in-depth, feel free to pm me. i don't understand why me saying "they fucked up" is so bad.

#donewiththis i've also been binge-watching "dear white people" today and am Very fired up about social justice and all this stuff. not in the mood to get into the topic of "reverse racism". thank god for the "foe" button y'all thoughts on the gaming office anyone? i like the red cupboard.
Last edited by allsaintshowell on Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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autumnhearth
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saffarinda wrote:
malday wrote:So, depps played board games with wirrony
still waiting for that board game on the gaming channel
Same. I would love board games on DAPG, but I imagine they would be much more difficult to film and edit and keep interesting and within a time frame. But there is a place for longer, more relaxing games. (I still need to watch beyond the first episode of Undertale). Kinda related, I love that Dan said he enjoys watching their golf videos to relax.
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allsaintshowell wrote:
000dia000 wrote:
allsaintshowell wrote:reverse racism doesn't exist and your white faves are problematic goodbye i'm not discussing this matter anymore like,,, the fact still stands that this isn't okay and i'm not gonna deal with white people bitching at me for calling my faves out #done
This may be a mindset for an American, but I'd just like to say that there other places in the world where inequality still exists, for all different types of people, and erasing people's struggles is doing the opposite of good. "Reverse racism" may not exist for you, but that doesn't mean there are groups and communities of white people being discriminated against.

I can see your point of how their use of the Japanese language may be ignorant for some, but there's nothing malicious about the use. Where exactly does the line of cultural appropriation draw the line? Where's the point where people can have a genuine appreciation and draw inspiration from other cultures?
white people are not discriminated against and oppressed on the worldwide and systematic scale that people of color are, so "racism" isn't the proper term to use when talking about any discrimination white people may face. people of color saying white people shouldn't profit off of a non-western language is not one.
I said I would sleep it off I know but one last thing
"prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior."
It's not a goddamn oppression race. Doesn't matter how oppressed a race is, if you discriminate against them, that's racism
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Even outside the problematic issue re: the "new" merch, I expected better. I was kind of expecting more galaxy stuff but pastel-ized. Which could easily have turned out kind of hideous but also maybe not? Maybe it could have been super nice and maybe in theory I really wanted it? But it's just a re-release of old merch in new colours. Mehhhh. And I'm not about hats, so it's a pass across the board from me (they're devastated I'm sure).

Can we start a petition for them to play Outlast 2 in the new gaming room to really break it in? Can the phandom do the spammy thing it does best, but for a worthy cause? That'd be swell thx.

edit: I'm on my phone so can't photoshop but in spirit I would like to submit an image of Helen Lovejoy wailing "won't somebody please think of the white people?!" in earnest. Thanks.
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autumnhearth wrote:
saffarinda wrote:
malday wrote:So, depps played board games with wirrony
still waiting for that board game on the gaming channel
Same. I would love board games on DAPG, but I imagine they would be much more difficult to film and edit and keep interesting and within a time frame. But there is a place for longer, more relaxing games. (I still need to watch beyond the first episode of Undertale). Kinda related, I love that Dan said he enjoys watching their golf videos to relax.
me too!!! i really like the longer more lowkey golf videos, and if anything seemed to run long they could just edit some bits out. i also just love board games myself, i think it's cause i never played them much as a child haha.
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man, i feel like i've seen endless iterations of the "is reverse racism real" argument on the internet because people were working off different definitions of the word racism and i feel like that's what's happening here. discrimination =/= racism. racism has an element of inherent power imbalance and the oppressed party shifts depending on the context of the culture you're applying it to. so the phrase "reverse racism" would pretty much be an oxymoron and better described as discrimination instead.

personally think that it's tactless for d&p to use japanese on their merch as they are neither japanese nor are they selling to a japanese audience (especially with that dubious comment about ~repping in a hidden way~) i think it's cool for them to appreciate japanese culture and media but the moment they start making cold hard $$$ from it is the moment they've overstepped. all of that said, i don't think they were being malicious or scheming about it, i'm assuming they just had a moment of dumb or earnest ignorance. no idea if they're getting hit with commentary about the issue elsewhere but i hope they're learning from it.
for context: i'm an east asian in america
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on the one hand, such an interesting and necessary discussion to be having. on the other, opinions are scary and id rather not disrupt anyones life


that being said
fancybum wrote:
edit: I'm on my phone so can't photoshop but in spirit I would like to submit an image of Helen Lovejoy wailing "won't somebody please think of the white people?!" in earnest. Thanks.

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august wrote:man, i feel like i've seen endless iterations of the "is reverse racism real" argument on the internet because people were working off different definitions of the word racism and i feel like that's what's happening here. discrimination =/= racism. racism has an element of inherent power imbalance and the oppressed party shifts depending on the context of the culture you're applying it to. so the phrase "reverse racism" would pretty much be an oxymoron and better described as discrimination instead.

personally think that it's tactless for d&p to use japanese on their merch as they are neither japanese nor are they selling to a japanese audience (especially with that dubious comment about ~repping in a hidden way~) i think it's cool for them to appreciate japanese culture and media but the moment they start making cold hard $$$ from it is the moment they've overstepped. all of that said, i don't think they were being malicious or scheming about it, i'm assuming they just had a moment of dumb or earnest ignorance. no idea if they're getting hit with commentary about the issue elsewhere but i hope they're learning from it.
for context: i'm an east asian in america
Wrote a long-ass post that went round and round in circles trying to explain this but you summed up what I tried to say in a whole paragraph in one sentence, thank you. Agree with the rest of the post, too.
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Loved the video!

smh @ Dan not fully appreciating Phil's ladybug selfie tho
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Yikes @ some people here but I dabbled into this conversation months ago when the Inuit DAPGO controversy happened so I'm gonna sit this one out mostly because other people have said far more sensible things than I ever could. Though when I saw how this was gonna do down a few hours ago I wondered if jaej would come back for this discussion and holy shit you did

Anyway, video stuff~~~

I was gonna bitch about the subject of the new 'gaming' video because that's what I do best (and seriously when are people gonna get tired of putting 'funny' filters on their faces already?) but then there was the new gaming room. It looks good, I hope they decorate it nicely. Posters or some shelves with nerdy game stuff on them like plushies, figurines etc.

Commentary:
- They actually took apart furniture that didn't belong to them for that fucking scoreboard :')
- Their lighting remains tragic. Just because the wall is grey now so I can't say that y'all blend into the wall anymore doesn't make this pale ass vampire lighting any more flattering. :sideeye:
- Fucking Phil and his goddamn apps.
- Here we go with the screaming again. Dan is already pissing off the new neighbors.
- Dan making a joke about Phil's age that fairly similar to one that he made in the radio show ages ago. Interestingly, that's also the only time I can remember Dan ever poking fun at Phil's age until now.
- Fem!Phil does not tickle Dan's pickle.
- Dan is really passionate about Phil's hair today. Does he hate is as much as I do?
- Manly Phil looks average according to Dan and I have questions about what that says about the type of people Dan is attracted to.
- 'I wanna be friends with him instead of you' #phandivorce #saygoodbyetoallyourforeverhomedreams
- 'Old Danny slice' ???
- Fem!Dan does tickle Phil's pickle.
- Holy shit that is Louise. :o
- Wattpad is shit, execution by hanging for anyone who posts their fics on there tbh.
- Dan the makeup critic.. maybe you two first need to learn how to match your foundation to you skintone and then we'll talk.
- Dan would do his manly self appaz?
- Yeah that profile pic needs to go like yesterday.
- Dan called my favorite Phil selfie ever cringe and I think this is the end of my subscription to dannyfire.
- lmao at pirate!Dan and his teeth.
- Merch plug. 'Secretly rep Dan and Phil without anyone knowing..' Except, ya know, Japanese people. Or people who know the language in general. Wild, I know.
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Ilovethemohyesido
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Did anyone notice the jump cut after Phil's northern accent moment? Dan's hair looks all messed up right after.
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first things first WELCOME BACK jaej :welcome:

secondly: PHIL AS A FEMALE IS THE MOST BEAUTIFUL ETHEREAL WOMEN IN THE WORLD AND IM DYING

the flirty little exchange they had when phil leaned into dan and said its atleast 7 months took 3 years off my life

Also dans reaction to ladybug phil and female phil are hilarious and i need to rewatch the shock/admiration/unwarrented attraction that flashes before his eyes (same)

I didnt see any Louise in the femlae dan

Also Cornelia is gorgeous and deserves everything great for being who she is
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Catallena wrote: - Dan called my favorite Phil selfie ever cringe and I think this is the end of my subscription to dannyfire.
How dare he, though. :gg:

Insensitive to the many ovaries that particular selfie destroyed.
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Holy poo, I leave for a few hours and the thread goes from squee-ing over Cornelia’s future modeling career to a debate re: reverse racism and cultural appropriation. I deal with racism every single day and, while I’m not complaining it’s always great to talk about these things, I'm still low-key miss the squee-ing.
I’ve never actually said this outloud anonymity apparently makes me brave, but I must be a terrible person because sometimes I just get so tired of things always becoming a debate over moral superiority? Like it’s great and wonderful and usually I’m right beside ya fighting for respect and equality, but then sometimes I see a debate like this I suddenly feel like taking a nap. I see where y’all coming from, I really do, but it’s telling, how the people who give a shit about things like the language on t-shirt that's featuring a picture taken in that country are (not specifically here! in general!) usually white folk and (not a call out) rich, privileged minorities. Great that people debate this, but what’s never talked about are the ones (especially first gen) living in western countries who can’t even speak their language in public because society demands assimilation. How is what Deppy doing detrimental to a culture? It's nothing like identity tourism, how is this t-shirt an issue when there’s actual real issues no one gives a shit about?

It’s like how white people always get so righteous about how it’s ‘cultural appropriation’ when whities (try and fail) to twerk or get their hair all ratty pretending to wear locs. Like, sure, idgf go ahead “appropriate” that shit it’s pretty funny to watch. I prob would care more about white people caring less about what white people do and care more about the culture they’re so righteously fighting for. You want to talk about locs? Well then fight until I’m allowed to wear natural hair at work, locs and all. Hell, why people giving shits about twerking when they don’t do shit to end the cycle of poverty. Hell, I’m probably the first person to go to college in my childhood zipcode, that’s no thanks to white people.

No one there gives two shits about what white people do—maybe we’ll start to care once we stop seeing candles and flowers and a picture of a young boy who’ll never get older, but right now we worry about the white people who shoot us 100 times more than we care about the white people pretending to got their eyebrows on fleek. Dammit I made this about my cuture, this should totally go in the social whatever tag shouldn’t it? shoot.

Tdlr, there’s 99 reasons to care about minorities and a t-shirt using the language from a country featuring a picture taken in said country aint one.
Also, my opinions on reverse racism is summed up perfectly by this video.




They totally reused the merch because they needed to put out something new but have been really busy with “”life things”” and with getting the IRL studio/shop thing up and running. I don’t care I just want to look at those cuties posing.

off to watch their vid now
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