Dan & Phil Part 46: Some kind of a gay backstory

[alittledizzy]

I have a question. When Dan and Phil met, was Phil still in university?

When they first met in person (October 2009), Phil has finished his Master's degree and moved back home. He actually moved back home (to his parents' house), in late August/early September, I believe, so when Dan and Phil first connected online, Phil was still at uni.

Yep, all true.

A lot of people don't realize that Phil was still at uni. He actually had a housemate named Dan at that point, and there's a long series of tweets where that Dan tweeted from a computer that Phil left his twitter account signed into. Since it involved tweets like "I love Dan" and "Phil kissed a boy and he liked it" it tends to get incorrectly attributed to our Dan a lot. (Though, really, it just makes me wanna know why his friend was teasing him about kissing a boy and liking it...)

Oh my God.

I read your post about five times, I thought you were being sarcastic
I'm intrigued that Phil had apparent two Dan's in his life. I'm surprised there isn't a crack theory that Phil got with our Dan to replace his heartache for old Dan. (I'm just kidding). But thanks for pointing this out

Omg, the lost potential for angsty rebound relationship-turned-true love fic there.

This is the tweet that is left off of the cap I posted above, indicating that the person hacking Phil's account was physically there.

And here's another random tweet from around the same time where Phil tweeted about housemate-Dan.

Also, go leave some thread name suggestions!

[captainspacecoat]

Thanks for the answer.
What about the other way around, when they met qas Dan in his sabbatical year? Starting uni? Fonishing school?

Dan graduated high school mid-2009, so he would have been in his gap year when they met

i thought he finished his masters in 2010? i could have my mental timeline mixed up, i'll have to go re-check that

Yeah I was a bit confused too, but given that he was in uni by March 2006 (according to his first video), I'd guess he started his BA in 2005. BAs are typically three years so he would have graduated in 2008. Masters are usually only 1 year so if he went straight into his masters post-BA then he would have graduated in 2009. Plus, judging by his youtube channel Phil was back home in Manchester post Septemberish 2009 which would suggest he wasn't at uni anymore.

[lost686girl]

was dan one of the reasons phil moved to manchester, or is that just the city closest to his parents house? (or both lol)

[xaephan]

was dan one of the reasons phil moved to manchester, or is that just the city closest to his parents house? (or both lol)

Phil's family is in Manchester iirc, so he moved home after finishing school and then stayed close when he moved out. I don't know if Dan's acceptance (and decision to go to University of Manchester) and Phil sticking around had much to do with each other, but...maybe a little bit at least.

I'm not sure how accurate this is, but this is the most complete timeline I've found for dnp.

[onetruetrash]

was dan one of the reasons phil moved to manchester, or is that just the city closest to his parents house? (or both lol)

Phil's family is in Manchester iirc, so he moved home after finishing school and then stayed close when he moved out. I don't know if Dan's acceptance (and decision to go to University of Manchester) and Phil sticking around had much to do with each other, but...maybe a little bit at least.

I'm not sure how accurate this is, but this is the most complete timeline I've found for dnp.

I read the timeline and saw something that sparked my interest.

"8/7/09 - Phil tweeted “someone close to my family has died. I’ll be gone for a few days. people our age should not die. it isn’t fair.” (Was this his friend from university?)"

That definitely wasn't the friend who died since the friend died in 2007 (people were able find the friend, but I won't say who for obvious reasons). Still quite a sad thing. I'm surprised I never heard about it.

[capybantsa]

Theory: Phil is actually dansexual and can only be attracted to people named Dan

To be quite honest I can’t really understand that “centrist” stuff. I’m not saying it’s wrong or that you can’t do it of course, I just don’t really understand why someone would want to listen to people who are against more lgbtq rights or women’s rights or something. The definition of “anti-SJW” I know is someone who opposes social justice activists because they don’t understand what they’re advocating for. Anti-SJWs usually come from a place of massive privilege. They’re the ones going “But you’re already equal, what do you even want!”, aren’t they? Maybe there are other definitions of the term but that’s what I know them as and I won’t waste my time listening to their side of things.

I do not believe in having to hear both sides anyway. A few days ago there was a religious event in Germany and they decided to let someone from the AfD (an ultra right party, basically Nazis) speak there. There was a lot of outrage and they justified their decision by saying they wanted to give both sides a chance to speak. The woman from the AfD then used her slot at the event (that’s meant to promote world piece or something) to spout racist garbage. So what they did was give a literal Nazi the chance to spread her ideology. And that’s where “But we have to listen to both sides!” ends for me.

If someone’s “opinion” is that feminism isn’t needed anymore or that gay marriage should be banned or whatever I will not my waste my time listening to them, no matter how interesting they are as a person or what their arguments are. Someone whose “opinion” literally limits the rights of others or shames them for wanting equal rights doesn’t deserve to be listened to. That’s dangerous, folks. That’s how Trump getting elected happened. That’s why the Nazis are on the rise again in Europe, because we’re giving them a platform to spread their ideologies in the name of “letting both sides tell their story”.

Tl;dr: If someone’s arguments, opinions or political ideologies include harming others or limiting their rights, I don’t think they deserve to be listened to. If you want to listen to both sides and understand why they believe gay marriage should be banned or whatever, you do you. But the answer is usually hatred of the other or bigotry and I don’t have to listen to these people to know that. They literally want more privilege for themselves and less rights for others. There’s no reason or argument they could come up with, no matter how compelling, that makes that okay. There’s nothing to understand there. Just hatred.

What exactly does "feminism" mean? I thought it meant "advocating for increasing women's rights to equal of men's", but people are still saying feminism is necessary in countries where those have already been achieved, countries where public interest in that is already very high, and countries where women have more rights than men do, so it must mean something else?

As for why you should listen to and try to understand people who oppose what you believe in, there is a good quote about this: "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle."

[captainspacecoat]

Theory: Phil is actually dansexual and can only be attracted to people named Dan

What exactly does "feminism" mean? I thought it meant "advocating for increasing women's rights to equal of men's", but people are still saying feminism is necessary in countries where those have already been achieved, countries where public interest in that is already very high, and countries where women have more rights than men do, so it must mean something else?

As for why you should listen to and try to understand people who oppose what you believe in, there is a good quote about this: "If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle."

I'm supposed to be writing an essay rn and I know I shouldn't engage alas I'm a stubborn fool who can never shut up: I can't name a single country where equal rights between all genders has been achieved. Certainly, women in some countries have more rights than women in other countries, that can not be denied. Feminism is always going to look different in different contexts - it's not useful to assume that the strategies that work for one community of women will apply to all women. But in no country do women have equal or more power with/than men. That goes especially so for marginalised women - white, able-bodied, cis, straight, wealthy etc women are in a greater position of power than non-white, disabled, trans, non-straight, poor etc women.

(Also, if you can point me to any specific rights women have over men that weren't created by patriarchy - e.g. child custody rights that are the result of patriarchy assuming women are inherently maternal and that childrearing is the duty of women - I would genuinely love to hear them).

[VengefulBlue]

What exactly does "feminism" mean? I thought it meant "advocating for increasing women's rights to equal of men's", but people are still saying feminism is necessary in countries where those have already been achieved, countries where public interest in that is already very high, and countries where women have more rights than men do, so it must mean something else?

many places which seem to have fairly equal treatment of men and women are still disparate in important ways. i know one source for data on this is the world bank website:
http://datatopics.worldbank.org/gender/indicators
although the analysis might be very eurocentric sometimes, the raw data still shows that many countries treat women and men differently in an unfair way (like parental leave, pay, etc).

feminism is exactly what you've said, so even if there's high public interest or women are privileged in certain ways (eg american men aren't guaranteed paternity leave, but women are guaranteed maternity leave), we still need to work towards equality.

[flarequake]

That last tweet after the hacked ones is great, "i didn't love you anyway", who needs people who'll unfollow if you/a cheeky friend mention kissing a boy (I hadn't realised those were hack-tweets by a friend also called Dan, funny, though).

[Afunnyworld]

I don't know if this has been posted yet,
but I was on the creators tab of the Vidcon website and

it looks as though either Dan's rebrand has actually failed or whoever put it there was trolling

Edit: Senpai...Thank god, crusty is even worst than moist

[saffarinda]

I don't know if this has been posted yet,
but I was on the creators tab of the Vidcon website and

it looks as though either Dan's rebrand has actually failed or whoever put it there was trolling

Edit: Senpai...Thank god, crusty is even worst than moist

If it's still the same as it was a few days ago, what's even more hilarious is that there's no "AmazingPhil" under "Phil Lester", got a bit confused as to who was rebranding?

I never knew those tweets were from Phil's housemate Dan! I'd always assumed it was Dan pranking Phil tbh (also I've seen that "Phil kissed a boy and he liked it" used so many times without context lmaoo).

[kalli]

To be honest I'm not a fan of most people Deppy interact with and I actually dislike quite a few of them, but Nathan is one of my faves. I check his twitter daily and I'm always hyped for his videos. Forever waiting on that Dathan collab.

A lack of content can definitely make a person lose interest, but with particular people, such as both Dan and Nathan, I find it only makes uploads more exciting. I always feel as though I can count on their videos being good and since I'm almost never let down, the wait doesn't bother me. I certainly prefer less frequent but thoughtful content over frequent but less thoughtful content.

[offtopic]Just to talk about Nathan's video for a second, I'm glad he was inspired by Dan and decided to rename/rebrand as well. Hopefully it helps him feel more inspired and satisfied with his videos And that Starboy video remake I love it partially because it was well done and an appropriate reference, and partially because I saw The Weeknd on Saturday and I'm still shook to put it simply so this came at a good time for me.[/offtopic]

I've definitely found myself less invested in Deppy than usual these past few weeks, and as other people have brought up, having no live shows is likely one of the main cause. I wasn't home for Phil's on Sunday and for whatever reason I only like watching them live, so I'm excited to watch Dan's today. I'm sure it'll quickly reel me back in and I'll be back to posting regularly again

Re: Phil's grad year -
I was pretty surprised to find out undergrad programs in most of the UK are only 3 years, since where I'm from it's 4 (or 5). Then his Master's was only 1 year, whereas most are 2 here. I think that's likely where some of the confusion arises, since education systems vary from place to place and graduating with a Master's after only 4 years is probably atypical for many people here.

Re: Other Dan -
Every time I think I know all there is to know about these guys, something comes forth that surprises me. I honestly had no idea Phil had another friend named Dan, and since I've never seen those tweets with specific dates on them, I never thought twice about it. Interesting...

[capybantsa]

I'm supposed to be writing an essay rn and I know I shouldn't engage alas I'm a stubborn fool who can never shut up: I can't name a single country where equal rights between all genders has been achieved. Certainly, women in some countries have more rights than women in other countries, that can not be denied. Feminism is always going to look different in different contexts - it's not useful to assume that the strategies that work for one community of women will apply to all women. But in no country do women have equal or more power with/than men. That goes especially so for marginalised women - white, able-bodied, cis, straight, wealthy etc women are in a greater position of power than non-white, disabled, trans, non-straight, poor etc women.

(Also, if you can point me to any specific rights women have over men that weren't created by patriarchy - e.g. child custody rights that are the result of patriarchy assuming women are inherently maternal and that childrearing is the duty of women - I would genuinely love to hear them).

Oh my god the browser refreshed and deleted the comment that took me 20 minutes to type. Satan take me now

I see, so feminism is cultural too, not just legal?

Regardless, I think a lot of what is getting attributed to feminism is actually just human nature, or the natural progression of a technologically advanced society. I say this because we don't really have feminism in Japan (or anywhere in this region of the world), and the trend is still gender equality. Most laws that are unequal are slowly being pushed against, and the Japanese constitution even mandates egalitarian marriage (equality of consent to marriage and rights within marriage for both genders).

We must also consider the wants of the people as whole. We have far more rights and protections exclusive to women than we do exclusive to men in Japan, and you're right that this does come from leftover patriarchal values, but most people don't have that much of a problem with it, and the majority of those that do are men. If you ask a Japanese woman "would you give up your legal and cultural protections to have more respect in the workplace and such (aka true equality on every level)", most would say no. If you asked the opposite to men, some would say no (mostly older men), but many would say yes. In Japan (and actually Korea, and probably most if not all of the region), patriarchal values are more heavily favored by women than men.

Oh, and speaking about patriarchy, I don't think the view that women are maternal is patriarchal, I think it's inherent. Back when Japan was much more patriarchal both culturally and legally, men almost always got custody of children. Now that things are much more egalitarian, women get it 6x more often than men. To me, this seems quite clear that given the opportunity, women will automatically fight harder for custody than men. It seems to be natural.

So, I'm not putting feminism down, but I think its value is being overestimated. Women are doing quite well here without it

[snokoplasmic]

Re: Phil's grad year -
I was pretty surprised to find out undergrad programs in most of the UK are only 3 years, since where I'm from it's 4 (or 5). Then his Master's was only 1 year, whereas most are 2 here. I think that's likely where some of the confusion arises, since education systems vary from place to place and graduating with a Master's after only 4 years is probably atypical for many people here.

i think this is where my confusion came from, too, an actual difference in time it takes to complete that much schooling

[teamug]

I see, so feminism is cultural too, not just legal?
Regardless, I think a lot of what is getting attributed to feminism is actually just human nature, or the natural progression of a technologically advanced society.
So, I'm not putting feminism down, but I think its value is being overestimated. Women are doing quite well here without it [/spoiler]

I see feminism as pushing for a change in culture, a change in the habitual behaviour that greatly disfavours women and so very many other groups depending on the region/country. Sometimes a legal change comes around quicker than society (the dominant part of it atleast), and it takes time for people to catch up, other times the law is slow to follow the will of the people.
I am glad for women in Japan. I don't quite understand how "advancements in technology" have attributed to equality when you say that old laws ensure womens' rights? Though, a follow-up question, how do ratios of women and men in positions of upper management appear? Politicians? Prime minsters? Judges? How fares the Bechdel test in domestic tv/ movies? Commercials, how many men appear in cleaning ones? I know I sound overbearing, sorry, I am actually curious.
And one more question on women gaining from techological advancement, are women treated equal to men in the technological sector? Very recently I read an article on women in Silicon Valley, how few angel investors they get access to, and how much less money they recieve.

Have to say, this discussion left me very confused esp since the US doesn't have a political party named the central party. Woundn't a centrist in the US be someone who has no opinions on anything political (or have a single opinion on anything?) Across the Atlantic, in the unholy mess of countries known as Europe, there are actual political parties named 'the Central Party' usually created some time in that countrys' history when the dominant altRight or altLeft Party were no longer where the people wanted to be/ to go, so, a more moderate 'central' party was created. When these moderates continued to succeed, previously alt parties become more moderate to gain favor, and the Central party had to move from their central position, to pick a side on issues, and today a Central Party is never in the center of anything and everything. Can't speak of all of Europe, but atleast this is the case in quite a few.

I have yet to watch the nanalew collab, I truly want to, and to be honest, her gay marriage views aren't the reason why. I have real-life friends who have the stance, but these are relationships built on stuff other than religion, and I understand the many reasons others are upset, I do, but online it is easier to avoid people than irl. It was her comment on "Never Hillary" and sorta yeah Trump that has pissed me off like a wasp thats being swatted.

[captainspacecoat]

Oh my god the browser refreshed and deleted the comment that took me 20 minutes to type. Satan take me now

I see, so feminism is cultural too, not just legal?

Regardless, I think a lot of what is getting attributed to feminism is actually just human nature, or the natural progression of a technologically advanced society. I say this because we don't really have feminism in Japan (or anywhere in this region of the world), and the trend is still gender equality. Most laws that are unequal are slowly being pushed against, and the Japanese constitution even mandates egalitarian marriage (equality of consent to marriage and rights within marriage for both genders).

We must also consider the wants of the people as whole. We have far more rights and protections exclusive to women than we do exclusive to men in Japan, and you're right that this does come from leftover patriarchal values, but most people don't have that much of a problem with it, and the majority of those that do are men. If you ask a Japanese woman "would you give up your legal and cultural protections to have more respect in the workplace and such (aka true equality on every level)", most would say no. If you asked the opposite to men, some would say no (mostly older men), but many would say yes. In Japan (and actually Korea, and probably most if not all of the region), patriarchal values are more heavily favored by women than men.

Oh, and speaking about patriarchy, I don't think the view that women are maternal is patriarchal, I think it's inherent. Back when Japan was much more patriarchal both culturally and legally, men almost always got custody of children. Now that things are much more egalitarian, women get it 6x more often than men. To me, this seems quite clear that given the opportunity, women will automatically fight harder for custody than men. It seems to be natural.

So, I'm not putting feminism down, but I think its value is being overestimated. Women are doing quite well here without it

Fair point! I'm coming at it from a western perspective, so thanks for explaining your perspective. I agree with you actually, in so far that it's really dangerous and sinister of western feminists to assume they understand the cultural context of other countries and apply their own concepts re: gender and equality to contexts they have no real understanding of. Comes across as condescending and is completely ineffective - definitely something I'm constantly trying to be wary of! I do agree with teamug though that inequality is complex, and that technological advancements + laws that mandate equality in marriage do not necessarily = equality in practice, but I think I'm gonna leave it there

In other news: I'm excited for Dan's liveshow later! I still haven't found time to watch Phil's, but from reading recaps it wasn't that interesting so I'll maybe leave it for when I'm feeling anxious and need something to take my mind off things - I find Phil's live shows are generally good for that. I do think I usually get more out of Dan's live shows though, in that he's more likely to talk about things beyond a surface level. They stress me out a bit sometimes, but I'm usually more psyched to watch them than I am Phil's (which I still enjoy, and can be so pleasant and calming sometimes).

And kalli, that's really interesting, I didn't know American/Canadian uni degrees were longer! In Australia it's the same as the UK I think - three years for undergrad (unless you choose to do honours, then it's an extra year) and one year for a Masters degree (I feel like there are probably exceptions, but that's the way it works at my uni I'm pretty sure). Also, I think Phil got his actual Masters degree in January 2010 according to that timeline someone posted earlier, so while he probably finished studying in 2009 (hence his return to Manchester) it wasn't technically over until 2010.

Also teamug I think somebody with centrist beliefs in a US context is just someone who doesn't strongly identify with the ideology of the left or the right. They sit somewhere in the middle, believing both the left and right to be too extreme in their views. In my experience, many people with centrist beliefs feel that those on the left are too progressive (e.g. fighting for unnecessary causes, too impractical etc) and see the right as being maybe too conservative, too religious, or too all over the place. They consider themselves 'moderate', i.e. 'reasonable', i.e. 'non-threatening' I guess. It's not something I can personally relate to, being someone who leans very far to the left, but

[teamug]

[offtopic]

Also teamug

Yeah I get that. I lived in Chicago mid 00's, before recrossing the atlantic, and political leanings then where democrat, or moderate dem, same with republicans and the rest were idgaf. Didn't even know libs or greens were about. Independents, sure, but they seemed to be sucked into dem or reps.[/offtopic]
[offtopic]Capybantsa, as rightfully pointed out by captainspacecoat I am very much coming from a (in my case) northerly western pov on feminism, northern europe is often touted as egalitarian, and studies and reports can show how far we have come, but in practice, there is a lot of 'hidden' patriarchy and attitudes that disadvantage women. I end up sounding condescending even when I am sincere, and my post most definitely is both, though I meant to aim for sincere and curious about women in Japan.[/offtopic]

Umm, on topic....new gaming vid please. yeah.

[Aurdie]

And kalli, that's really interesting, I didn't know American/Canadian uni degrees were longer! In Australia it's the same as the UK I think - three years for undergrad (unless you choose to do honours, then it's an extra year) and one year for a Masters degree (I feel like there are probably exceptions, but that's the way it works at my uni I'm pretty sure).

yeah, and also, here in the States, it takes 7 years of school to get a law degree (4 years uni + 3 years law school), so I always kinda wondered when Dan refers to his "law school" experience, since he attended university for such a relatively short amount of time. I'm assuming a law degree is accomplished within the shorter amount of time than in the US, too ? Is it done outside of the 3 years of uni?

[alittledizzy]

Vote for the next thread name here!

[Moonbeamsonthepath]

yeah, and also, here in the States, it takes 7 years of school to get a law degree (4 years uni + 3 years law school), so I always kinda wondered when Dan refers to his "law school" experience, since he attended university for such a relatively short amount of time. I'm assuming a law degree is accomplished within the shorter amount of time than in the US, too ? Is it done outside of the 3 years of uni?

In England, you can do an LLB in law straight after high school, and it only takes three years (or maybe 4 at some unis I think).

(or you can also do another degree and then do a conversion course afterwards)

[Birdie]

The Sims: I did notice how Dan ordered Dil to sleep on the log but I don't really mind it since they have to make the Sims videos interesting somehow. Sometimes you play the Sims for hours and nothing out of the ordinary happens which is cool when you're playing on your own but it would be boring to watch on Youtube. What I'm a bit annoyed about is how they didn't even bother to edit it out though. Of course they're manipulating the Sims videos a bit to make them more interesting but I wish they'd at least do it a bit more carefully. (I really need to know if Dil is pregnant with an alien baby though and if he is, how they'll react to that.)

Those tweets: Thanks for clearing up those tweets! I've seen them used as phanproof so often so it was really enlightening to finally find out the real context. Looks like it was just banter between uni friends after all!

What exactly does "feminism" mean? I thought it meant "advocating for increasing women's rights to equal of men's", but people are still saying feminism is necessary in countries where those have already been achieved, countries where public interest in that is already very high, and countries where women have more rights than men do, so it must mean something else?

My perspective on the whole feminism stuff is Central European and I guess British too from living there. I agree that it’s never wise to apply Western cultural concepts to other countries and societies! Where I’m from feminism is heavily frowned upon, typically feminine activities are mocked and seen as worth less than typically male activities, there’s a serious lack of representation in the media and in politics and there’s a huge pay gap. From the outside it might look like women and men were equal because by law everyone has the same rights, but when you look closer you’ll see all the little inequalities that add up. I think it’s a bit of a reach to say in most countries men and women are completely equal or that women even have more rights. It might look like that from the outside but living that reality, it’s not true.

I also don’t think gender equality happened because of natural progress in the West at all. Early feminists fought hard for basic human rights just a hundred years ago. It’s not like all the progress just happened. Women had to actively fight inequality in order to gain the same rights as men (and were heavily opposed, it wasn’t an easy fight) not that long ago and the fight still goes on, especially for non-white and non-straight women and women belonging to other minority groups. So of course feminism is what you described: Advocating gender equality. My original point wasn't about feminism though. It was about how "But we have to listen to both sides!" gives literal Nazis a platform to spread their ideologies and how it helps the alt-right rise in the West right now. I only brought up anti-feminism as one subject anti-SJWs are very hung up on.

[autumnhearth]

Re: the hack Tweets. Ohhh that makes so much more sense. I didn't think that Dan remotely hacking Phil's Twitter account before they met IRL would have been that endearing to Phil, so I figured it was someone like Charlie, teasing about the relationship. Good to know.

was dan one of the reasons phil moved to manchester, or is that just the city closest to his parents house? (or both lol)

Phil was raised in a town just 17 miles north of Manchester. So when Dan came to visit during his gap year, Phil would take a bus into the city and meet Dan at the train station. They would hang out in the city, then go back to Phil's home

I think that Phil was a major reason for Dan considering Manchester. However, Dan did apply to several schools including York (fun fact in mid March 2010 Dan went up to Manchester for their "uni open day", then Phil followed Dan back home during which Dan had an interview at University of York [aww Google has a pic of Phil as one of their notable almuni]. So I would like to imagine Phil showing Dan around his alma mater. I do wonder if Dan had chosen York or another university if that is where Phil would have got his first apartment). However as fate would have it the University of Manchester accepted Dan unconditionally (as he didn't have the required AAA) and that's where he went.

I think it was a good decision for both of them and like to imagine the discussions that led to it. One of my favorite deleted danisnotinteresting videos is from August 8, 2010. When Dan talks about being excited for Phil's new apartment. It starts at about 3 mins in.

Let's take a moment to appreciate what he says (after some fab hair flips):

"I guess the next interesting thing that's happening in my life... is that-- (scrunched up face) Well, it's not really to do with me, but uh, Phil's moving out. I don't know if you know- you should- but um, Phil is moving out of his home [ ] with his parents, to his own flat in Manchester, which is on the fourteenth floor of a building, and it's really cool, and uh, I'm looking forward to shooting videos, not looking at this, because... Are you guys fed up with it? Or do you like it? Do you like looking at this in the background of my videos? ['it's very brown'] I don't know, what do you think?" (never change Dan) "But no yeah, that's very exciting, so I can't wait to dump all my shit in his house and um... just stay there all the time and eat his food. It's going to be great. And making videos, which is my next point..."

Oh baby Dan... Yes, it is going to be great staying at your boyfriend's Phil's apartment (more than at your dorm. It's okay, I did the exact same thing. That is until you start defensively denying it in VYous and claim it's just convient to hang out/live with a fellow YouTuber and that you're only there when shooting videos and you have other friends, thanks for assuming. All while wearing a handmade Philion shirt. *screams*)

I wish we could have kept this honesty (kinda) and optimism. But it's all good here in 2017, they've got their third official place together, just came back from Lester family vacation. It's fine, I'm fine, we're all fine. Take a deep breath and look forward to today's liveshow.

[saffarinda]

Re: the hack Tweets. Ohhh that makes so much more sense. I didn't think that Dan remotely hacking Phil's Twitter account before they met IRL would have been that endearing to Phil, so I figured it was someone like Charlie, teasing about the relationship. Good to know.

was dan one of the reasons phil moved to manchester, or is that just the city closest to his parents house? (or both lol)

Phil was raised in a town just 17 miles north of Manchester. So when Dan came to visit during his gap year, Phil would take a bus into the city and meet Dan at the train station. They would hang out in the city, then go back to Phil's home

I think that Phil was a major reason for Dan considering Manchester. However, Dan did apply to several schools including York (fun fact in mid March 2010 Dan went up to Manchester for their "uni open day", then Phil followed Dan back home during which Dan had an interview at University of York [aww Google has a pic of Phil as one of their notable almuni]. So I would like to imagine Phil showing Dan around his alma mater. I do wonder if Dan had chosen York or another university if that is where Phil would have got his first apartment). However as fate would have it the University of Manchester accepted Dan unconditionally (as he didn't have the required AAA) and that's where he went.

I think it was a good decision for both of them and like to imagine the discussions that led to it. One of my favorite deleted danisnotinteresting videos is from August 8, 2010. When Dan talks about being excited for Phil's new apartment. It starts at about 3 mins in.

Let's take a moment to appreciate what he says.

"I guess the next interesting thing that's happening in my life... is that-- (scrunched up face) well it's not really to do with me, but uh, Phil's moving out. I don't know if you know- you should- but um, Phil is moving out of his home [ ] with his parents, to his own flat in Manchester, which is on the fourteenth floor of a building, and it's really cool, and uh, I'm looking forward to shooting videos, not looking at this, because... Are you guys fed up with it, or do you like it? Do you like looking at this in the background of my videos? ['it's very brown'] I don't know, what do you think?" (never change Dan) "But no yeah, that's very exciting, so I can't wait to dump all my shit in his house and um... just stay there all the time and eat his food. It's going to be great. And making videos, which is my next point..."

Oh baby Dan... Yes it is going to be great staying at your boyfriend's Phil's apartment (more than at your dorm. It's okay, I did the exact same thing. That is until you start defensively denying it in VYous and claim it's just convient to hang out/live with a fellow YouTuber. I wish we could have kept this honesty (kinda) and optimism. But it's all good here in 2017, they've got their third official place together, just came back from Lester family vacation. It's fine, I'm fine, we're all fine. Take a deep breath and look forward to today's liveshow.

videos like that make me so fond of old dan, honestly back in 2009/2010 they both seemed so adorable on social media (the amount of times they visited one another DAMN i dread to think of the cost of train tickets). stuff like phil sneaking dan mcdonalds when he was sick in hospital is also v cute - back before the denials. i'm finding their content so interesting now, i'm really excited to see what they have ready for the future, i can sense projects.

also, i decided to rewatch some old liveshows and wow i'll never be more pleased to never have to here that "click to become a fan" ever again.

liveshow today is exciting, dan always tends to overshare when he's on his own so it may be revealing.

i was wondering if anyone had any theories with regards to what dan said in his last liveshow about february and march?

February: "me and phil were doing a thing that you might see, or like maybe not, who knows"

March: "um-umm difficult for reasons that i might tell you"

i've heard a lot of people wondering about march but nothing about feb, wondered if y'all could decode everything again

[LtrllySusan]

i was wondering if anyone had any theories with regards to what dan said in his last liveshow about february and march?

February: "me and phil were doing a thing that you might see, or like maybe not, who knows"

March: "um-umm difficult for reasons that i might tell you"

i've heard a lot of people wondering about march but nothing about feb, wondered if y'all could decode everything again

On top of that, Phil gave the impression in his last LS that he was quite busy which is why he couldn't settle for a permanent LS day. I wonder if they are working on a secret project or if he just has some more movie dates nights planned.

[capybantsa]

Yay, I'm actually around to vote this time!!

Regarding February and March, if anybody is interested I can do a tarot reading about it

I see feminism as pushing for a change in culture, a change in the habitual behaviour that greatly disfavours women and so very many other groups depending on the region/country. Sometimes a legal change comes around quicker than society (the dominant part of it atleast), and it takes time for people to catch up, other times the law is slow to follow the will of the people.
I am glad for women in Japan. I don't quite understand how "advancements in technology" have attributed to equality when you say that old laws ensure womens' rights? Though, a follow-up question, how do ratios of women and men in positions of upper management appear? Politicians? Prime minsters? Judges? How fares the Bechdel test in domestic tv/ movies? Commercials, how many men appear in cleaning ones? I know I sound overbearing, sorry, I am actually curious.
And one more question on women gaining from techological advancement, are women treated equal to men in the technological sector? Very recently I read an article on women in Silicon Valley, how few angel investors they get access to, and how much less money they recieve.

Have to say, this discussion left me very confused esp since the US doesn't have a political party named the central party. Woundn't a centrist in the US be someone who has no opinions on anything political (or have a single opinion on anything?) Across the Atlantic, in the unholy mess of countries known as Europe, there are actual political parties named 'the Central Party' usually created some time in that countrys' history when the dominant altRight or altLeft Party were no longer where the people wanted to be/ to go, so, a more moderate 'central' party was created. When these moderates continued to succeed, previously alt parties become more moderate to gain favor, and the Central party had to move from their central position, to pick a side on issues, and today a Central Party is never in the center of anything and everything. Can't speak of all of Europe, but atleast this is the case in quite a few.

Pushing hard for change is very un-Japanese, so if that's what feminism is then I think it's incompatible with Japanese core values.


Advancements in technology allow people to have more freedom of choice in their lives because it makes both jobs outside the home and housework much easier. Jobs that used to destroy men's health are now easy and safe enough that women can do them without society having a collective heart attack about it, and housework is quick and easy enough that you don't have to spend all day everyday doing it, so now men and women both are freer to make choices about our lives. Choices that laws alone couldn't give us because of life's responsibilities.


One of the biggest issues women have in Japan is the lack of respect in business, but this is slowly changing. Once the current generation of upper management finally releases their death grip on their companies and retire, I think we'll see more women in those positions. I don't think it will ever be an equal outcome even with equal opportunity though, because women here just aren't as interested in such positions. Being a housewife is still a popular choice among women even despite the freedom to work.

Likewise, most Japanese people think it would be good if there were more women in politics, but even despite that general attitude and government efforts to get more women in politics it's just not happening, so I think probably women aren't interested in that as much either. People certainly aren't avoiding voting for them.


I had to look up the Bechdel test. It seems arbitrary and weird to me, but I'm pretty sure most popular Japanese anime and dramas would pass. Not sure about movies since I don't watch movies much. I don't think anybody in Japan would care about such a metric, and would instead focus on the characters as individuals and how they fit into the story.


Housewives are much more common than househusbands, so most daytime TV and commercials are more targeted to women over their 30s, which includes cleaning commercials, but it's somewhat mixed. I found a compilation of Japanese commercials https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sshKiBsS-k it's the first video I clicked on and in the first 2 minutes there's a dad making a bento and taking his kid to the park. There are male and female versions of this particular commercial campaign

I think a lot more people are centrist than you would imagine, even if they don't self-identify that way. I found this interesting thing comparing self-identification with actual political views in America http://www.gotoquiz.com/politics/poli-c ... rties.html that shows... quite a lot of variety within party lines. I think I now understand why American politics are so dramatic lol

And now I must go to sleep