Dan & Phil Part 49: Don't curl, quiff

[ultraviolet]

(I've been lurking around again after I got too busy to be up to date with Dan & Phil til recently... I guess it takes Yuri on Ice to bring me back lmao.)

A lot of my points with why Dan's opinions on YoI are a bit misguided/uninformed have already been covered (the YoI creators did the best they could with the pressure they had to leave it out completely.) Side note of a thing I didn't see mentioned: Japan is definitely conservative, but in YoI's case, the conservatism was less about the fact it was two men kissing and more that it was two men kissing in a sports anime. Japan does have gay media, but they push to keep it under that label and that label only. That's why YoI was so groundbreaking, because it was representing a gay relationship outside the confines of being labeled as BL series, and that's why it was fought against so hard. Since Dan kept going on about other anime boobs and other salacious things, that's probably why he wasn't convinced by the chat telling him it was censorship. It's a complicated matter.

What shows me the real reason of his misguided opinion is the fact he said they should have made the kiss more obvious... It's already obvious. With the emphasis on Victor and Yuri's lips, the way their faces are shown going towards each other and on Victor's eye closing in slow motion, it's a very heavy suggestion that they are going to kiss. This is very common framing in film. Go watch some movies with some kisses in it, and watch how the scene is composed. I'm sure you'll find the framing is similar in nature.
My point being, I don't think Dan thinks of media (anime at least) in a very critical manner. Even though he has watched a ton of it (def more than me), he comes off as a casual viewer with how he talks about it. He doesn't seem to get very invested in characters or stories with how he has talked about them... I think he takes anime as just entertainment and doesn't think too hard about it, so it was very easy for him to see the kiss (with his Westernized viewpoint) and not really pick up on what they were trying to accomplish.

I would take what he said with a grain of salt, I don't think for one second he realizes what connotations his words had. To him, he was just chatting about an anime he watched once, lol.

[chiccola]

I'm still a bit irked he decided to criticise YOI for queerbaiting instead of Free! or that volleyball anime (I can't find what it's called, sorry) when those two are without a doubt very queerbaity and we know he likes those a lot too.

[offtopic]Coming back from my hermit hole just to defend the "volleyball anime" (Haikyuu!!), because it often gets listed as one of the examples of queerbaiting, when that isn't the case.

I can see why people call Free! (or even Kuroko no Basket) queerbaiting, because the interactions between certain characters and the way they are animated are definitely meant to be suggestive and make the viewer question "wait, could they be...?"

Meanwhile in Haikyuu!!, there is never such a doubt, we don't actually know much (or anything) at all about the characters' personal/romantic lives. The confusion probably comes from the fandom, there's a lot of shipping going on and so many Haikyuu!! pairings became really mainstream and you can see fanarts/photo manips of them everywhere, so i guess this is where the confusion outside the fandom comes from.[/offtopic]

It's just weird to me why he would choose YOI for this when YOI is actual representation, albeit not as clear as Western fans might have wanted it to be. Maybe we're overthinking what he said (lol, of course we are) but the whole thing is a bit weird and bothers me slightly. YOI is quite progressive when it comes to anime (non-yaoi queer characters, interacial romance etc.) and I wish he wouldn't have chosen it for his queerbaiting comment when we know he watches other ones that are far worse.

Indeed, him choosing YOI is what confused me too, because there's so many more better examples to go off at *cough*. And iirc he mentions something about there being "many gay anime out there"? (I'd have to rewatch I'm not 100% positive), but really Dan? Where? Because I personally wouldn't count yaoi/shounen ai as good examples of gay anime. They're full of consent issues and unrealistic m/m relationships, like others have already pointed out. YOI was the first mainstream anime that spelled out the nature of their relationship so clearly, while not focusing primarly on the fact that they're gay, so I think it deserves praise for that. If more non-straight relationships get a fair treatment like Vctuuri, I think we'll be on a good way to positive queer representation in japanese anime. It's a stepping stone for sure, if you ask me.

[alittledizzy]

The reason I quoted this is because I agree with the similarities between the Victuuri and Phan storyline, and that is why it's odd to me that Dan seems to feel so strongly about this. If I assume for this argument that Phan is real, shouldn't YOI be an empowering voice for couples similar to them? Aka that it is completely ok to not disclose every single fact about your (possibly romantic) relationship, about your sexuality and so on, and that it shouldn't be expected just because someone might be homosexual. I feel like DnP have been taking this stance for a long time and basically taken a similar story-telling approach as YOI (see quote above), so I am very confused as to why Dan is so critical about it.

Other real life couples, sure; fictional media being written by someone? There is no correlation, imo, because the YOI characters aren't real people with privacy to protect or consider. The motivations for the lack of disclosure aren't the same, it isn't a choice the YOI characters are making because they are fictional and can't make their own choices. There is nothing new or particularly empowering about fictional characters coded gay but writers not being allowed to/refusing to specifically label it, that's been happening for decades.

[lurker]

yo i want to suggest we move the queerbaiting discussion into a separate thread. i've been here for less then a year and i still already feel like while it comes up periodically, the same arguments and viewpoints are revisited each time. i didn't want to go ahead and just open a new thread as i'm obvs no moderator and i don't want to give the impression that i want to "ban" the topic from the main thread. however i want to suggest it as i feel like it would be beneficial for everyone as people who don't want to engage in the topic could easily avoid it whereas there would be a designated place for the people who do want to discuss it, and the discussion wouldn't be repetitive anymore. i feel like atm the posts are lost in the main threads as the topic moves on so we don't refer to them anymore when the topic surfaces once more, whereas if everything were posted into one thread, it'd be easy to view older posts and the discussion wouldn't go round in circles. people who have already made posts covering their stance on it could even copy them in there so that everything is in one place. it's also a "timeless" topic, as in in my impression it's not directly related to the "latest deppy proceedings", so it might be additionally beneficial to discuss it in a separate place.

[alittledizzy]

yo i want to suggest we move the queerbaiting discussion into a separate thread. i've been here for less then a year and i still already feel like while it comes up periodically, the same arguments and viewpoints are revisited each time. i didn't want to go ahead and just open a new thread as i'm obvs no moderator and i don't want to give the impression that i want to "ban" the topic from the main thread. however i want to suggest it as i feel like it would be beneficial for everyone as people who don't want to engage in the topic could easily avoid it whereas there would be a designated place for the people who do want to discuss it, and the discussion wouldn't be repetitive anymore. i feel like atm the posts are lost in the main threads as the topic moves on so we don't refer to them anymore when the topic surfaces once more, whereas if everything were posted into one thread, it'd be easy to view older posts and the discussion wouldn't go round in circles. people who have already made posts covering their stance on it could even copy them in there so that everything is in one place. it's also a "timeless" topic, as in in my impression it's not directly related to the "latest deppy proceedings", so it might be additionally beneficial to discuss it in a separate place.

You are welcome to make a thread for it, but as this conversation is very topical and relates directly to something that Dan said in his livestream yesterday it is also relevant to the main thread.

[LtrllySusan]

The reason I quoted this is because I agree with the similarities between the Victuuri and Phan storyline, and that is why it's odd to me that Dan seems to feel so strongly about this. If I assume for this argument that Phan is real, shouldn't YOI be an empowering voice for couples similar to them? Aka that it is completely ok to not disclose every single fact about your (possibly romantic) relationship, about your sexuality and so on, and that it shouldn't be expected just because someone might be homosexual. I feel like DnP have been taking this stance for a long time and basically taken a similar story-telling approach as YOI (see quote above), so I am very confused as to why Dan is so critical about it.

Other real life couples, sure; fictional media being written by someone? There is no correlation, imo, because the YOI characters aren't real people with privacy to protect or consider. The motivations for the lack of disclosure aren't the same, it isn't a choice the YOI characters are making because they are fictional and can't make their own choices. There is nothing new or particularly empowering about fictional characters coded gay but writers not being allowed to/refusing to specifically label it, that's been happening for decades.

I didn't mean that YOI characters would function as a rolemodel to actual people in similar situations, but rather that they are (moral) influencers. I believe that fiction can shape our way of thinking, and what I meant with my statement was that if a viewer learns via YOI that not knowing everything is ok, that should indirectly benefit people like DnP.
I typed some more but I am not sure if it makes sense so I'll just leave it at this

[argo]

I want to know what the avocado recipe was that Dan wanted to try out I make a mean guacamole

[moaninglisa]

[Birdie]

chiccola: I agree so much with what you said and I’m sorry I judged Haikyuu!! too harshly. That happens when you don’t watch a show and listen to what people on tumblr say about it.

Other real life couples, sure; fictional media being written by someone? There is no correlation, imo, because the YOI characters aren't real people with privacy to protect or consider. The motivations for the lack of disclosure aren't the same, it isn't a choice the YOI characters are making because they are fictional and can't make their own choices. There is nothing new or particularly empowering about fictional characters coded gay but writers not being allowed to/refusing to specifically label it, that's been happening for decades.

I’m gonna repeat a lot of what’s been said over the course of the last few pages but it’s kind of important to me that people on here understand that YoI is not queercoded nor is it queerbaiting. It’s in fact, like chiccola has said, very important for queer representation in Japan and yeah, it’s empowering in the way that it’s the first of its kind.

Japanese TV works a lot different than Western TV. There is gay/queer media in Japan but it’s a niche and conservative Japanese TV wants it to stay in that niche. In order to create YoI, a queer love story for a mainstream audience, the creators had to work with what mainstream TV let them do. That’s why the kiss is censored for example. YoI’s creators took a story with strong queer themes out of the niche and put in on mainstream TV the best they could and that’s amazing because this does not usually happen on Japanese TV. It doesn’t look like much for Western viewers because we’re used to more clear cut representation by now (thank God) but in the context of Japanese TV and anime history, YoI is groundbreaking.

It also features an interracial relationship and quite a bit of subtext hinting at homophobia in Japan and in ice skating in general. In one scene Victor wears a costume heavily inspired by a costume gay ice skater Johnny Weir, who was the victim of a lot of homophobic attacks after his coming out, wore in a real ice skating competition. Yuuri and Victor are also both from pretty homophobic countries, Japan and Russia, and that’s no mistake either. So YoI is literally a mainstream anime about two ice skaters from very homophobic countries in a very homophobic industry falling in love with each other and getting to be happy together. Man. Gay marriage isn’t legal in Japan or in Russia so the fact that they’re getting engaged is another big fuck you to homophobia, as is their couple skating in the last episode: There is no same-sex couple skating in real ice skating competitions. It’s just not done but they let Yuuri and Victor do it anyway.

YoI isn’t that explicit because it was not allowed to be explicit but its subtext is pretty strong and a lot of the stuff on the show – getting engaged, Yuuri’s confession of love, sleeping in the same bed, the couple skating, even the kiss – is pretty clear. This isn’t queercoding or queerbaiting, this is a Japanese anime trying to get good lgbtq representation out of its niche and into mainstream TV. I understand that a lot of Western viewers, including Dan, will not know this and it’s easy to judge YoI for being "just another queercoded anime" but please don’t. It’s so important for lgbtq viewers, especially in Japan, it doesn’t deserve to be slammed out of ignorance. Criticise Japanese TV for making censoring necessary instead but let's not take YoI's importance away from lgbtq viewers who finally got a decent queer sports anime that isn't in fact yaoi.

Lol, can you tell I'm passionate about this. But I've waited for decent lgbtq rep in anime for so long, I'm just happy it finally happened.

[alittledizzy]

chiccola: I agree so much with what you said and I’m sorry I judged Haikyuu!! too harshly. That happens when you don’t watch a show and listen to what people on tumblr say about it.

Other real life couples, sure; fictional media being written by someone? There is no correlation, imo, because the YOI characters aren't real people with privacy to protect or consider. The motivations for the lack of disclosure aren't the same, it isn't a choice the YOI characters are making because they are fictional and can't make their own choices. There is nothing new or particularly empowering about fictional characters coded gay but writers not being allowed to/refusing to specifically label it, that's been happening for decades.

I’m gonna repeat a lot of what’s been said over the course of the last few pages but it’s kind of important to me that people on here understand that YoI is not queercoded nor is it queerbaiting. It’s in fact, like chiccola has said, very important for queer representation in Japan and yeah, it’s empowering in the way that it’s the first of its kind.

Japanese TV works a lot different than Western TV. There is gay/queer media in Japan but it’s a niche and conservative Japanese TV wants it to stay in that niche. In order to create YoI, a queer love story for a mainstream audience, the creators had to work with what mainstream TV let them do. That’s why the kiss is censored for example. YoI’s creators took a story with strong queer themes out of the niche and put in on mainstream TV the best they could and that’s amazing because this does not usually happen on Japanese TV. It doesn’t look like much for Western viewers because we’re used to more clear cut representation by now (thank God) but in the context of Japanese TV and anime history, YoI is groundbreaking.

It also features an interracial relationship and quite a bit of subtext hinting at homophobia in Japan and in ice skating in general. In one scene Victor wears a costume heavily inspired by a costume gay ice skater Johnny Weir, who was the victim of a lot of homophobic attacks after his coming out, wore in a real ice skating competition. Yuuri and Victor are also both from pretty homophobic countries, Japan and Russia, and that’s no mistake either. So YoI is literally a mainstream anime about two ice skaters from very homophobic countries in a very homophobic industry falling in love with each other and getting to be happy together. Man. Gay marriage isn’t legal in Japan or in Russia so the fact that they’re getting engaged is another big fuck you to homophobia, as is their couple skating in the last episode: There is no same-sex couple skating in real ice skating competitions. It’s just not done but they let Yuuri and Victor do it anyway.

YoI isn’t that explicit because it was not allowed to be explicit but its subtext is pretty strong and a lot of the stuff on the show – getting engaged, Yuuri’s confession of love, sleeping in the same bed, the couple skating, even the kiss – is pretty clear. This isn’t queercoding or queerbaiting, this is a Japanese anime trying to get good lgbtq representation out of its niche and into mainstream TV. I understand that a lot of Western viewers, including Dan, will not know this and it’s easy to judge YoI for being "just another queercoded anime" but please don’t. It’s so important for lgbtq viewers, especially in Japan, it doesn’t deserve to be slammed out of ignorance. Criticise Japanese TV for making censoring necessary instead but let's not take YoI's importance away from lgbtq viewers who finally got a decent queer sports anime that isn't in fact yaoi.

Lol, can you tell I'm passionate about this. But I've waited for decent lgbtq rep in anime for so long, I'm just happy it finally happened.

I'm definitely not disagreeing with any of that! But I still don't think it's accurate to say that Dan would find empowerment from LGBTQ characters who, for reasons not relating to the character themselves, aren't explicitly saying they are queer. I have no argument against how pivotal YOI is, because I agree: it is. I should have picked my words more carefully because my point was less about queercoding and more about the difference in motivation and context behind how the situations are handled.

[awkwardly]

most has been already said, I just want to say I'm really happy Dan is finally watching Code Geass and likes it

I cried so much at the end

and yes that's CLAMP specific style there (maybe he could watch xxxHolic afterwards, it's not only CLAMP art but their writing as well, and it get's somewhat deep and philosophical on meaning of life in between the comedy so he might like it)

although I do believe he might rather enjoy something like Kino no Tabi

And I just really wish that Phil would watch Petshop of Horrors, I really really do

[chiccola]

I don't have anything to say except that I agree with Katka's post!

Also, that was my 30th post which officially promoted me into the status of a senpai

(And sorry for clogging up the thread to people who are not interested/comfortable with the queerbaiting discussion, I'm sure it'll die out soon and we'll be back to regular posting again :p)

[onetruetrash]

[offtopic]Does anyone know when the results of the Phandom survey will be posted?[/offtopic]

[autumnhearth]

I only got to watch the whole ls this morning, though I did catch the beginning live as I was getting ready to head out to a family gathering. I noticed that Dan changed the flight story to not blame or even mention Phil booking the car an hour late. (Also how is 3 am a day flight? Who would be doing shots during those eleven hours? And the math certainly does not add up with landing two hours before their performance, even *before* factoring in the time change. But whatever. )

Even though I love me some YOI, I'm wary of weighing in on the queerbaiting discussion. I will second, third, sixth, whatever that you can't compare fictional media representation to real life private personal relationships *and* that the cultural and media restraints are very complicated in Japan and the creators did do the best they could with their mainstream sports anime category. But Dan just wants to see the anime guys kissing and Phil wants more hot springs action. Very understandable. (I'm joking, kind of).

One thing that did stick with me from the comments is what it might feel like to be accused of queerbaiting by your peer/former idol. (But honestly f*** Shane.)

Overall I enjoyed the ls very much. I am very excited about all of Dan's ideas (seriously he mentioned so much, even at random chat queries: 'is that a video?') for DINOF, DINI and DAPGs. Yes please to unironic candle hauls, things that ground me "tour" and gaming streaming! Plus Anthony collab(s) (he said videos plural) and whatever the frick they have going on in August/September that is preventing them to commit to other opportunities. I'm dying to know. More convention structure rambles

[queerofcups]

Speaking of other queer shit! Dan's latest reblogs have left me with a question. Where's the tipping point, in the posts he reblogs or the jokes or references about his own attraction that he makes--when are we like ok, yeah, that's a queer dude. Or at least a not-straight dude. Because the shit he's just reblogged would look right at home on my own queer af tumblr, and feel much like in-community jokes to me. But I'm biased.

So is there anything he can do short of being like "I, Daniel Howell am [insert non-straight identity here]" that would confirm that he's not, in fact, straight?

[fondsmiles]

Speaking of other queer shit! Dan's latest reblogs have left me with a question. Where's the tipping point, in the posts he reblogs or the jokes or references about his own attraction that he makes--when are we like ok, yeah, that's a queer dude. Or at least a not-straight dude. Because the shit he's just reblogged would look right at home on my own queer af tumblr, and feel much like in-community jokes to me. But I'm biased.

So is there anything he can do short of being like "I, Daniel Howell am [insert non-straight identity here]" that would confirm that he's not, in fact, straight?

I think there doesn't have to be a tipping point. because like, sexuality is not actually in categories like we often make it seem to be. so, Dan has referenced female attraction before, and he has referenced male attraction. he has also referenced the lgbtq+ community quite a bit. my conclusion: he has experienced both attraction at least once in his life probably and also knows quite a lot about community. i don't need to have any confirmation, you know? it's basically already there. in my eyes, dan's out as attracted to males (at least partly). that's all I need.

I actually came here to share the reblog you probably talked about, since it made me smile:
[tumblr] <div class="tumblr-post" data-href="https://embed.tumblr.com/embed/post/WzV ... 2634662099" data-did="da39a3ee5e6b4b0d3255bfef95601890afd80709">[/tumblr]


edit: very unrelated, but i just saw dan's last tweet again and, um. i didn't get the g note joke. can someone enlighten me? was it just meant to be a g spot joke? urbandictionary was no help either.

[fancybum]

Speaking of other queer shit! Dan's latest reblogs have left me with a question. Where's the tipping point, in the posts he reblogs or the jokes or references about his own attraction that he makes--when are we like ok, yeah, that's a queer dude. Or at least a not-straight dude. Because the shit he's just reblogged would look right at home on my own queer af tumblr, and feel much like in-community jokes to me. But I'm biased.

So is there anything he can do short of being like "I, Daniel Howell am [insert non-straight identity here]" that would confirm that he's not, in fact, straight?

Even if he said that, what if he was just joking tho

[sparkle]

Speaking of other queer shit! Dan's latest reblogs have left me with a question. Where's the tipping point, in the posts he reblogs or the jokes or references about his own attraction that he makes--when are we like ok, yeah, that's a queer dude. Or at least a not-straight dude. Because the shit he's just reblogged would look right at home on my own queer af tumblr, and feel much like in-community jokes to me. But I'm biased.

So is there anything he can do short of being like "I, Daniel Howell am [insert non-straight identity here]" that would confirm that he's not, in fact, straight?

I agree with all of this so much. I honestly think unless he was VERY, VERY explicit some people are still going to read him as straight.

I'm bisexual, I've had boyfriends in the past, I have a MASSIVE thing for Phil at the moment. But because I have a girlfriend, everyone reads me as a lesbian. I've flat out said I'm bisexual/queer (I identify as queer because it helps me deal with my issues on gender easier) so many times but I'm always. a. fucking. lesbian. (theres nothing wrong with being a lesbian obviously, it's just not me). Even me trying to mention males I'm attracted to is laughed off.

I don't know if I'm projecting onto Dan (which I do a lot because I find him very relatable, especially at the moment when I'm quite sad) but I really feel like he is going to be read as straight because it is still the easiest conclusion to make with him. And bisexuality isn't often considered by non-biseuxal people.

There is no way I can read Dan as straight. I just can't.

[autumnhearth]

Speaking of other queer shit! Dan's latest reblogs have left me with a question. Where's the tipping point, in the posts he reblogs or the jokes or references about his own attraction that he makes--when are we like ok, yeah, that's a queer dude. Or at least a not-straight dude. Because the shit he's just reblogged would look right at home on my own queer af tumblr, and feel much like in-community jokes to me. But I'm biased.

So is there anything he can do short of being like "I, Daniel Howell am [insert non-straight identity here]" that would confirm that he's not, in fact, straight?

I mean, I'm sold... but to the casual or unconvinced fan? Without actually saying it or drawing more attention than he wishes? I dunno. Earlier today the idea of end notes with "danisnotstraight" popped into my head. Except that has a very limited audience and is usually topical to the video. (Can anyone come up with a good amazingphil one to go with it? Just for fun of course.)

Yeah, fonsmiles it seems like that's enough for him and I'm cool with that. I don't think queerofcups is actually suggesting he do more, just a general observation of how willfully blind do people have to be to not see it. But correct me if I'm wrong.

Also lol to the LGBT boneless pizza post, when he got fooled during the ls (not that I had any idea it was a meme, though boneless watermelon came to mind.)

[argo]

edit: very unrelated, but i just saw dan's last tweet again and, um. i didn't get the g note joke. can someone enlighten me? was it just meant to be a g spot joke? urbandictionary was no help either.

I think the g note is the first note of welcome to the black parade by my chemical romance

[Birdie]

Yeah, I assume he's not straight from the way he talks about who he's attracted to. It's clearly not jokes at this point so he's basically out as not straight and since he has literally said he does not like labels, I guess that's that. There doesn't need to be a confirmation here, I think, or more like there has been a confirmation since Dan talks about liking guys the same way he talks about liking women. Isn't that a confirmation? Straight guys usually don't do that.

I mean, joking about liking guys for months would be downright malicious. Dan is educated enough on these things that he knows how harmful that would be so I can't quite understand how people can seriously think he's "just joking, lol". He's not that kind of person at all.

[sparkle]

edit: very unrelated, but i just saw dan's last tweet again and, um. i didn't get the g note joke. can someone enlighten me? was it just meant to be a g spot joke? urbandictionary was no help either.

I think the g note is the first note of welcome to the black parade by my chemical romance

Yep it is.

Now can he please play at least the intro on camera because that would make my year.

[pilotlight]

Speaking of other queer shit! Dan's latest reblogs have left me with a question. Where's the tipping point, in the posts he reblogs or the jokes or references about his own attraction that he makes--when are we like ok, yeah, that's a queer dude. Or at least a not-straight dude. Because the shit he's just reblogged would look right at home on my own queer af tumblr, and feel much like in-community jokes to me. But I'm biased.

So is there anything he can do short of being like "I, Daniel Howell am [insert non-straight identity here]" that would confirm that he's not, in fact, straight?

He could literally marry a dude and some people would be like "It's tOtAlLy fOr TaX pUrPoSes, he's dEfinAtelY str8"

[iihappydaysii]

Yeah, I assume he's not straight from the way he talks about who he's attracted to. It's clearly not jokes at this point so he's basically out as not straight and since he has literally said he does not like labels, I guess that's that. There doesn't need to be a confirmation here, I think, or more like there has been a confirmation since Dan talks about liking guys the same way he talks about liking women. Isn't that a confirmation? Straight guys usually don't do that.

I mean, joking about liking guys for months would be downright malicious. Dan is educated enough on these things that he knows how harmful that would be so I can't quite understand how people can seriously think he's "just joking, lol". He's not that kind of person at all.

Right? He's pretty up on what is problematic at this point so joking about same-sex attraction is probably not on the list of things he would do. As someone who is bi (but at the same time I'm like Dan and iffy about labels) it's so frustrating that nobody believes you like ??? Especially if you don't want to make a huge announcement bc a label doesn't fit you and you don't want your identity to primarily be your sexuality. It's also hard for people more in the middle of the sexuality spectrum to not deal with internalized biphobia or a sense of like am I queer enough? It's not right. But I've struggled with that and I wonder if Dan does too. I feel like he's just kind of existing in the world as a "sexually ambiguous blob", as part of the community, without making a huge show of it because that's how he wants to engage the public with that part of his life and that's fine.

[lurker]

Because the shit he's just reblogged would look right at home on my own queer af tumblr, and feel much like in-community jokes to me. But I'm biased.

that's how it feels to me as well -- like, obviously a straight person could reblog this post and i wouldn't feel offended, but the posts feel very much like in-jokes to me and like something i wouldn't reblog if i were straight, if that makes sense. similar things go for things dan has talked about in the past, famously the diss track -- it'd just be really weird for a straight person to say "wtf even is my sexuality" and "it's hard to put you in a box", because, well, they're straight and this experience doesn't relate to them. (of course someone can question and then find out they're straight after all and it's fine and all that, but, you know.) so as for your question, i think the tipping point was already there and it was the diss track...?

thanks for the reply, alittledizzy. i can start the thread, if people are interested in moving the discussion there...? i'm just really awkward and no-one else has said anything about it so idk?