Dan & Phil Part 52: And They Were Roommates

[malday]

This thread is a mess.

I'm glad they addressed their editing mistake and took steps to fix it.

[thatdanandphilguy]

[offtopic]My first post yay[/offtopic]
Just wanted to give my two cents on the backpack situation as a half-Chinese half-Japanese person. Honestly, emotionally speaking I don't feel uncomfortable with it at all. There are specifically two cases of cultural appropriation that I hate: one is when people misunderstand the cultural piece they're using, either the meaning or the origins, which isn't happening cause well they're just writing their names. The second case is when people use it merely as a graphic aesthetic choice, especially when they don't understand the meaning, but I'm not too certain about this one either, because honestly people all over the world print English on everything just for the design, and I'm not sure what makes East Asian languages so sacred and not-usable. Because of how rich and deep the culture behind the language is? But do you think DP would've received as much backlash if they used another language with Latin alphabets? Or is it "more okay" just because they use Latin alphabets as well, even though they're from a completely different culture?

Honestly this is something that really annoys me because most of the time it just feels like Westerners are gatekeeping something they don't even understand, "protecting" the East from being invaded by culture from the West, but we live in a globalized world that should encourage communication between different cultures, letting us acknowledge and appreciate each other's languages. I remember seeing a white person on tumblr bashing another white person for liking to wear kimono, and I was just genuinely incredibly annoyed. As long as they're not misinterpreting or misusing it, I love it when other people appreciate and love our culture, and it makes me sad feeling like people back away from doing that just in fear of offending people who are not even part of it, or they feel like they can't do it just because they're not Asian studies scholars. Honestly we already know DP are giant weebs who really appreciate the country and its culture, so it's not like they just threw it on there for no reason, they love Japanese stuff, and I just find it really cute, katakana looks cute. And like let's be real, being such offense-aware people means that they must've consulted people - most probably PDR - on whether it was okay or not, and they said it was.

Having said all this though I do understand why people don't like it, the thought that they are using this just for the ~aesthetics~ or part of their branding even though they're 100% British lads can be kind of weird. But I feel like to join in on the discussion as someone from that culture I have to be completely honest, and to be completely honest, I'm completely fine with it. Maybe I'm just too relaxed and careless idk, but for example when I saw Arin from Game Grumps showing us his office which was completely Japan-themed and covered in Japanese words and goods, I just went: aw sweet! You nailed it! And didn't think it could be problematic at all until someone said so in the comments. And again it comes back to, what makes Asian languages so special? If there is a Chinese blogger who prints her name in Italian on her products, is that appropriate? If a Japanese singer titles her songs with unrelated French words and sings in Japanese, is that okay?

That was a long ass first post. Would love to hear other perspectives on this!!

I applaud you, this was a great first post! And wow capybantsa, that katakana part sure was a task to read, haha. I’m glad you don’t have to write like that.

I also second Sinister Shipper’s opinion that people get way too easily offended these days. You literally can’t do anything without someone being offended (”you can’t make a toast without tumblr saying you’re problematic”). Now in this particular case it could have been easily avoided if they had never started using katakana in the first place, but they did and in the end we can’t even know if the decision was made because it looks cool and was fitting at the time or because the trip was something very special to two of them, either way their use of katakana doesn’t really contribute much to how much the merch sells because people would be buying it anyway even if it didn’t have it. People buy merch because it’s Dan and Phil merch, not because lol it has this secret language on it that no one can read.

People will always have their feelings hurt, when you have audience as big as these two guys have, there’s literally no way to completely avoid it. It’s impossible to please everyone and imo it shouldn’t even be the goal. People these days except the whole world to cater to them and that’s just not how life works, there will always be things you don’t like and things that make you uncomfortable and it’s alright, because you don’t enjoy something doesn’t mean it’s wrong and no one else has the right to enjoy it either. You as an individual have the responsibility to look after yourself, to choose the media you consume and things you buy, you can’t expect people to make only the kind of things you enjoy.

It is important to work on the big issues to make the world a better place, now when it goes to nitpicking and finding something offensive in every little thing it does more harm than good, it causes a rift between people instead of uniting them. World is a much nicer place to live in when you share the cultures and language, instead of making sure you stay inside your own little box.

And just a disclaimer that I don’t think Dan and Phil are flawless, I don’t think everything they do is always right, I’m smart enough to know that they’re only people and people make mistakes. If they actually do something with malicious intent or hurt someone because of ignorance they should be held responsible, that’s just not the case with merch or even the whole monolid thing, which wasn’t at all what it looked like at first glance. It sounded bad but it was only because of the two options being back to back and them going from talking about monolids to talking about the next set of eyes. I’m happy that they addressed it.

I do wonder though why they haven't created their own logo, it would make sense for them to have one.

[fancybum]

This has absolutely nothing to do with what I was saying, the context of my statement was very obvious based on the rest of what my post said. Accidentally running someone over & not meaning it has no correlation to DnP merch with Japanese writing, you can't compare the 2. Physically harming someone accidentally & writing your name in Japanese, yeah I can totally see how they relate to each other.

Okay the the point there was not to compare a backpack with attempted murder, the point was that intent isn't a magic eraser for everything. Intending to be nice in doing something doesn't make that something inherently nice and nothing else. Intending to be ~appreciative in doing something doesn't make that something inherently appreciative and nothing else. They can love Japan all they want, that's great whatever, but at the end of the day they're two rich white British guys slapping onto their merch a foreign language that they don't speak, seemingly have no intention of speaking beyond tourist basics, and just because it's ~aesthetic and ~subtle (which they've said more than once, not just as a one time throwaway line). You know what else could be subtle and aesthetic? An original logo. Or any other number of things that isn't simply 'not their language'.

I definitely don't defend everything they do. I do however defend their right to do as they please with their merch, if you or anyone else don't like it or agree with it, don't buy it. You assume to know more about why they decided to put it in Japanese based on a few comments made by Dan, (he doesn't tell everyone the reasoning behind every single decision they make) - but to say "There's no good reason for their names, their brand, to be in Japanese on merch just because they went to Japan one time and watch a lot of anime", the only reason they need is because they wanted to. They don't need to justify their decisions or apologize for offending a small percentage of people that more than likely aren't even Asian.

Just as a thought experiment: what amount of Legitimately Asian™ people being uncomfortable with it would it take for it to matter, in your eyes? One is probably too small a number, how about 10? Is there a number? Or would any amount be shrugged off as being too easily offended and therefore irrelevant in the grand scheme of 'defending Dan and Phils bank account yay capitalism'?

Nobody side-eyeing the merch is saying people who think it's nice or who are buying it (or D&P) are evil monsters so relax everyone, nobody's got pitchforks. But the bags/hats would be selling just as well and be just as nice with something else in place of that specific text.

[LtrllySusan]

Moving theories debunked? Shelves are filled.

Sorry to quote myself in the midst of the merch discussion, but I think with the moving theory being so popular, we should talk about this?

[annetamiau]

Moving theories debunked? Shelves are filled.

Sorry to quote myself in the midst of the merch discussion, but I think with the moving theory being so popular, we should talk about this?

I posted a screenshot from Dan's Emo video a few days/weeks back of what appeared to be an empty shelf, but I now believe it was just the angle (the shelves are wider than I thought), I don't think they were ever empty (I'm sorry).

[yoursinsincerely]

hey - popped back out of lurking for the merch discussion. Disclaimer - I'm not Japanese - I'm half-Chinese/Taiwanese (Taiwan has several groups of indigenous non-Chinese-descended peoples, which is why I make that distinction lol) and I've lived in both China and the US as of now.

I think the one thing that I haven't seen mentioned much here re cultural appropriation is a consideration that Asian people aren't monolithic - especially based on whether that they've experienced historical erasure of their culture or not. When someone in a fairly ethnically homogenous Asian country like Korea or Japan is most likely surrounded by their culture/having it represented by people who understand it in a day to day context, the merch by D&P probably isn't a big deal because in that nation, that culture is dominant/has no real way to be erased or stolen by someone else in the long term.

It's a lot different for someone of Asian descent who lives outside that country of descent (e.g. Asian-Americans, European people of Asian descent) however, because there, the culture related to their ethnic identity is less understood/can be erased and misrepresented on a daily and regular basis with no real consequences for a dissimilar dominant culture that doesn't really "get it". Later on, the dominant culture begins to see the misrepresentation of a different culture as truth relating to individual people of that culture (if there is no actual accurate/honest/good representation), and that can be pretty annoying. As a result of people becoming irritated with this misrepresentation, you get the discussions we have about the issue as a whole.

Hope that was understandable lol - I just kind of had to get that out since I've talked with other people of Asian descent and been educated about that myself in the past. Hope it helps move things along!

[somethingsketchy]

Moving theories debunked? Shelves are filled.

Sorry to quote myself in the midst of the merch discussion, but I think with the moving theory being so popular, we should talk about this?

The DVDs are in the exact same order as before so D&P probably haven't taken them off the shelves and then put them back again. In fact, to me it looks like the DVDs were there even in the emo video. There just happened to be a big white box set right where the camera was filming, but you can definitely see black cases on the right side of the box.

@2:16 in Dan's Tinder video

@1:52 in Dan's emo video

This doesn't really debunk the moving in general but it probably debunks the moving this week theory.

edit: except if they have been filming and taking a bunch of photos in advance in order to throw us off, but how probable is that

[aleanna]

Just as a thought experiment: what amount of Legitimately Asian™ people being uncomfortable with it would it take for it to matter, in your eyes? One is probably too small a number, how about 10? Is there a number? Or would any amount be shrugged off as being too easily offended and therefore irrelevant in the grand scheme of 'defending Dan and Phils bank account yay capitalism'?

Some Japanese and Asian people are offended/think it's appropriation. That's valid.

Some people of Japanese or Asian descent are offended/think it's appropriation. That's valid.

Some Japanese and Asian people aren't offended/think it's appropriation. That's valid.

Some people of Japanese or Asian descent aren't offended/think it's appropriation. That's valid.

There are people from other countries and cultures who can have an opinion but ultimately don't get to decide what's offensive because it's not about them.

Honestly, the cultural appropriation and queerbaiting arguments are circular and are never going to be resolved. At this point, I feel like everyone should just agree to disagree and move on.

[thatdanandphilguy]

Moving theories debunked? Shelves are filled.

Sorry to quote myself in the midst of the merch discussion, but I think with the moving theory being so popular, we should talk about this?

Could someone clarify for me what caused the moving theory? I'm still quite new to phandom, so I've probably missed something. Is it all because Dan said their current place isn't a forever home? Because I personally took that as him just replying to people who were excited and congratulating them, saying yes they moved but they haven't actually bought a house, it's just another rental apartment so there's no need to get excited? I didn't pick up from that that there would be actually another move coming up relatively soon. So did I miss something or am I just forgetting some detail that hinted towards another move happening within a year?

[LtrllySusan]

Honestly, the cultural appropriation and queerbaiting arguments are circular and are never going to be resolved. At this point, I feel like everyone should just agree to disagree and move on.

Could someone clarify for me what caused the moving theory? I'm still quite new to phandom, so I've probably missed something. Is it all because Dan said their current place isn't a forever home? Because I personally took that as him just replying to people who were excited and congratulating them, saying yes they moved but they haven't actually bought a house, it's just another rental apartment so there's no need to get excited? I didn't pick up from that that there would be actually another move coming up relatively soon. So did I miss something or am I just forgetting some detail that hinted towards another move happening within a year?

Tbh I don't remember either but it was very little things that I felt like were blown a bit out of proportion because there isn't so much else going on to discuss. The only two occasions I remember right now (there were more, someone please fill us in) was that Dan's movie shelf looked empty at some point, and that the boxes in the gaming room were gone.

I think people were just trying to make sense of #thatweekinmarch... Was never really on board the moving-again-train personally

[dontpanic]

I'm having major flashbacks to the merch discussion a few weeks ago like, wow. Not that this isn't a great conversation to have! just déjà vu

Moving theories debunked? Shelves are filled.

It doesn't give off a "planning to move again soon" vibe

Also damn that computer better survive or else I might tear up a bit...if I saw such a beautiful computer pass away I don't know how I could cope. meanwhile i'm sat here with my shitty 2011 Dell laptop, typing away without a proper "eight" key

[Sinister Shipper]

This has absolutely nothing to do with what I was saying, the context of my statement was very obvious based on the rest of what my post said. Accidentally running someone over & not meaning it has no correlation to DnP merch with Japanese writing, you can't compare the 2. Physically harming someone accidentally & writing your name in Japanese, yeah I can totally see how they relate to each other.

Okay the the point there was not to compare a backpack with attempted murder, the point was that intent isn't a magic eraser for everything. Intending to be nice in doing something doesn't make that something inherently nice and nothing else. Intending to be ~appreciative in doing something doesn't make that something inherently appreciative and nothing else. They can love Japan all they want, that's great whatever, but at the end of the day they're two rich white British guys slapping onto their merch a foreign language that they don't speak, seemingly have no intention of speaking beyond tourist basics, and just because it's ~aesthetic and ~subtle (which they've said more than once, not just as a one time throwaway line). You know what else could be subtle and aesthetic? An original logo. Or any other number of things that isn't simply 'not their language'.

I definitely don't defend everything they do. I do however defend their right to do as they please with their merch, if you or anyone else don't like it or agree with it, don't buy it. You assume to know more about why they decided to put it in Japanese based on a few comments made by Dan, (he doesn't tell everyone the reasoning behind every single decision they make) - but to say "There's no good reason for their names, their brand, to be in Japanese on merch just because they went to Japan one time and watch a lot of anime", the only reason they need is because they wanted to. They don't need to justify their decisions or apologize for offending a small percentage of people that more than likely aren't even Asian.

Just as a thought experiment: what amount of Legitimately Asian™ people being uncomfortable with it would it take for it to matter, in your eyes? One is probably too small a number, how about 10? Is there a number? Or would any amount be shrugged off as being too easily offended and therefore irrelevant in the grand scheme of 'defending Dan and Phils bank account yay capitalism'?

Nobody side-eyeing the merch is saying people who think it's nice or who are buying it (or D&P) are evil monsters so relax everyone, nobody's got pitchforks. But the bags/hats would be selling just as well and be just as nice with something else in place of that specific text.

Everyone should read magnolia & capybantsa posts and then after that, maybe read https://alibertarianfuture.com/big-gove ... ood-thing/ Western civilization is the reason cultural appropriation has become a bad thing in todays society. Just in case you don't click on the link and read the article, I'm gonna just go ahead and paste and copy that right here for all to see.

The meanings of words change over time much in the same way that cultures develop. Sometimes words that originally meant something else end up with negative connotations that are completely different from what they used to describe. Such is the case with the term cultural appropriation. While that word may have once been a synonym for positive terms like assimilation it has been turned into a slur by the left. It’s unfortunate, because cultural appropriation is a good thing after all.

Cultural appropriation is the latest social justice warrior invention designed to divide people by race. Their incessant use of the term and derision of those who commit the despicable crime is what makes its current meaning truly hollow. There is no such thing as cultural appropriation in the way that the term is used by the left today.

According to Wikipedia cultural appropriation is “the adoption or use of elements of one culture by members of a different culture”. It’s an anthropological or academic term used to observe cultures as they accept new elements. It’s similar to assimilation or acculturation which are natural phenomenon that have been observed throughout human history.

The classic example would be how the Romans copied the style of Greek art. They did so because they admired the Greeks not because they were looking to abuse their history or profit from it. The Roman adoption of Greek art benefited both cultures and the world as a whole. In that context, cultural appropriation is a perfectly natural and inoffensive occurrence.

According to the left, however, cultural appropriation is a terrible sin that only insensitive white people are guilty of. They would say that white America’s adoption of jazz, R&B, hip hop, and rap music is an actual crime. They believe that the individuals who produced that work do not own the copyright but that the African-American community does as a whole. Therefore, when whites enjoy that product they are stealing from blacks or appropriating their culture without compensation. It’s the laziest and most absurd idea since restitution.

Cultural appropriation does not exist in that form. It is not an evil but rather a public good when different cultures are assimilated into the mainstream. Anyone should be thrilled when their ideas are being accepted by others. They’ve had an influence on the collective conscious of the country and that is no small feat. It’s an achievement that should be acknowledged and celebrated not derided.

If one were to think that rap music’s mainstreaming is cultural appropriation by whites then so is the internet’s popularization cultural appropriation by blacks. It’s the same argument after all. Blacks largely invented rap music and whites largely invented the internet. But should white people be compensated for minorities using the internet? Of course not. Nor should blacks be compensated for white people listening to rap music. Both arguments are equally ridiculous and both create unnecessary divisions in our society.

Every group should be proud to have changed a culture for the better. There’s no need to label it appropriation and imply that something was stolen. Doing so negates the fact that cultural appropriation, or cultural acceptance, is a public good and a net positive for society.

Those that still use the word cultural appropriation negatively need to understand the damage their causing to societal progress. Their regressive attitudes will hinder race relations instead of improving them. They should celebrate cultural appropriation as an achievement instead of loss.

It's just merch that is sold to a phandom, there are bigger issues in the world than Dan and Phil using Japanese language on bags and hats, so just take a deep breath and move on.


I'm very sorry for blowing up the thread today but I'm very passionate about this subject (amongst many others). fancybum, no hard feelings I hope, I just get fired up and can't help it.

[somethingsketchy]

Could someone clarify for me what caused the moving theory? I'm still quite new to phandom, so I've probably missed something. Is it all because Dan said their current place isn't a forever home? Because I personally took that as him just replying to people who were excited and congratulating them, saying yes they moved but they haven't actually bought a house, it's just another rental apartment so there's no need to get excited? I didn't pick up from that that there would be actually another move coming up relatively soon. So did I miss something or am I just forgetting some detail that hinted towards another move happening within a year?

Tbh I don't remember either but it was very little things that I felt like were blown a bit out of proportion because there isn't so much else going on to discuss. The only two occasions I remember right now (there were more, someone please fill us in) was that Dan's movie shelf looked empty at some point, and that the boxes in the gaming room were gone.

I think people were just trying to make sense of #thatweekinmarch... Was never really on board the moving-again-train personally

I think it all indeed started with trying to make sense of #thatweekinmarch, and then everyone was being extra tinfoily for a few days to spite Marcus Butler or something. There has actually been other evidence besides the boxes to support the moving theory. If you want to read the whole discussion, it started somewhere around here: http://indepthbants.com/topic893-850.html

edit: fixed the link

[malday]

Moving theories debunked? Shelves are filled.

Silly, this just means they are moving in late August - September and not now
Keep the train moving!

[SquishPhan]

[tumblr] <div class="tumblr-post" data-href="https://embed.tumblr.com/embed/post/24p ... 3845681752" data-did="da39a3ee5e6b4b0d3255bfef95601890afd80709">[/tumblr]

Good on them for acknowledging this and trying to correct their mistake.

Moving theories debunked? Shelves are filled.

Sorry to quote myself in the midst of the merch discussion, but I think with the moving theory being so popular, we should talk about this?

I just really don't think they will be moving soon, maybe after another couple of months but not right now or even this month. But then I had these thoughts already when Phil tried to soundproof their wall.

[coffeepenguin]

Nothing to add to the current iteration of the cultural appropriation discussion, but to all the new people, I think you might be interested in reading the one on this forum after the release of the pastel/cherry blossom merch in April, there were some great arguments: http://indepthbants.com/topic828-100.html (through page 11)

Sinister Shipper, I get that you're passionate about the topic, but I would like to invite you to contemplate the fact that the article you're quoting from is written from a particular political point of view that not everyone might agree with (for instance, I don't).

[human]

Moving theories debunked? Shelves are filled.

Silly, this just means they are moving in late August - September and not now
Keep the train moving!

I'm not sure how the moving theory has evolved, I can't follow them all haha. But I firmly believe that the week in March was a house purchase that fell through and instead of cancelling the move from the existing flat with the landlord and staying there longer, they decided to find somewhere else fast and it was stressful. Dan already said it wasn't a forever home in their first (I think?) joint liveshow there, so I think they are fully expecting to be moving somewhere else very soon. Most flat rentals are up every 12 months I think so they have a year, but they also have a lot of cash and I'm sure they can buy themselves any extra time they need to.

Them putting things up on the walls or whatever doesn't make me think they're going to stay longer, they did that in the last flat when they knew they were moving and it was probably more of a "may as well" sort of situation since they were leaving anyway and they'd already cracked tiles and there were cracks in the walls etc so I'm guessing the landlord told them it would be refurbished when they moved out anyway so what did it matter.

Besides, I always rather enjoyed Dan's careful wording of that "whenever a house is brought" comment, it neatly sidestepped insinuating who was buying the house or whether they were buying houses separately or together. It was smart and I enjoyed it a lot.

[leaveimreading]

Moving theories debunked? Shelves are filled.

I can't see the tweet he replied to for some reason. Someone mind filling me in?

[mysterylovescompany]

Moving theories debunked? Shelves are filled.

I can't see the tweet he replied to for some reason. Someone mind filling me in?

It seems to be deleted, but here's a screenshot:

[tumblr] <div class="tumblr-post" data-href="https://embed.tumblr.com/embed/post/kho ... 3838780954" data-did="da39a3ee5e6b4b0d3255bfef95601890afd80709">[/tumblr]

[captainspacecoat]

Re: cultural appropriation - I don't feel like I have anything worthwhile to add as I'm white, but I think there are valid arguments to be made on both sides. Sinister Shipper I appreciate your intense passion but I'm never gonna take an article from alibertarianfuture dot com to be fact lol, that is certainly not a reputable source. I think I mostly feel that, while not the most offensive thing in the world, there is no need for the merch to be in Japanese. I very much understand why it rubs people the wrong way, and I really enjoyed/agreed with yoursinsincerely's post

Re: moving - As much as I've loved the moving 2.0 theories I've never really been fully on board with them, and I still don't really believe they'll move imminently. However I think it's definitely plausible that this is a short-term rental, and they'll be out of this flat within 6 months to a year.

[Birdie]

Late to the party but I just saw they acknowledged the eye thing, I’m so glad.

The second case is when people use it merely as a graphic aesthetic choice, especially when they don't understand the meaning, but I'm not too certain about this one either, because honestly people all over the world print English on everything just for the design, and I'm not sure what makes East Asian languages so sacred and not-usable.

As someone else has already pointed out, we need to keep historical context in mind. Western nations have exploited, orientalised and oppressed East Asian people for centuries. I mean, look at the japonism trend of the late 19th century and the harmful stereotyping of Asian women that went along with it. That’s appropriation, imperialism and oppression at its best and just because it happened a hundred years ago doesn’t mean it doesn’t still effect us today because it totally does. I’m not going to talk about Japan here because I have no ties to Japan but I have ties to China and I see Hollywood stereotyping Chinese people as mysterious, sneaky and other to this very day, all associations that were formed when Europeans, especially the British, first decided they wanted something from China that China wasn’t willing to give them just like that.

Like, the reason people in Hong Kong speak English is because Hong Kong was under British rule for so long. The people of Hong Kong have not appropriated English, they were forced to assimilate. So if Chinese people wear a shirt with English writing on it it’s a whole other story than an English person wearing a shirt with Chinese writing on it. It’s just a completely different historical context, even though it might look like the same thing. It's not the same thing. Historical and social contexts matter.

Thank you for saying this!!!!! It's nice to hear the perspective from someone that is part of the Japanese/Chinese culture.

Like, not to start a fight here but you also already heard from jaej and some others, so… does it only count if the person has the same opinion as you do, or…

Everyone should read magnolia & capybantsa posts and then after that, maybe read https://alibertarianfuture.com/big-gove ... ood-thing/ Western civilization is the reason cultural appropriation has become a bad thing in todays society. Just in case you don't click on the link and read the article, I'm gonna just go ahead and paste and copy that right here for all to see.

Dude, no offense, but I'm sure as hell not going to click on a link from a website with "libertarian" in its name. I read your quote from the article and what the hell even. Whoever wrote that disregards historical context alltogether (cultural appropriation is not a modern invention and everyone who thinks so needs to crack open a history book real soon), it disregards the voices of loads of non-western people and it basically tries to blame the victims for what's happening to them. "You don't wanna share your culture because we exploited it for ages? You're racist!" I don't expect you to understand why this is not okay and why whoever wrote that article needs to get off their high horse and take a look at the state of the world before they ever write anything again but I wanted to say something anyway.

[Sinister Shipper]

Nothing to add to the current iteration of the cultural appropriation discussion, but to all the new people, I think you might be interested in reading the one on this forum after the release of the pastel/cherry blossom merch in April, there were some great arguments: http://indepthbants.com/topic828-100.html (through page 11)

Sinister Shipper, I get that you're passionate about the topic, but I would like to invite you to contemplate the fact that the article you're quoting from is written from a particular political point of view that not everyone might agree with (for instance, I don't).

I'm not new first of all, I have been on here a very long time as a lurking guest so I'm aware of the discussions from the cherry blossom merch talk and I could go on and on about that topic but I won't because it's quite similar to this current one.

My post about the article was to go along with the posts that magnolia & capybantsa posted, to point out the fact that not all people are offended by or assume cultural appropriation because Dan & Phil made some merch with 3 words on it in Japanese language.

I'm not a political person and these aren't my strict views, the whole point of me posting the article was to point out that cultural appropriation doesn't have to be seen as a negative thing and that Western culture has put a negative spin on the term itself, it doesn't need to always be seen as a negative but can be seen as a positive by sharing Eastern culture and exposing others to it that may not be exposed to it otherwise. Sparking curiosity in other cultures can't be a bad thing - someone may see the Japanese Dan and Phil merch and look into Japanese culture and really enjoy it and want to learn more about it. So, what part don't you agree with? That cultural appropriation doesn't have to be a bad thing if represented respectfully? or That Westerners are the reason it turned into a negative term? Why are the people that aren't represented offended by something that doesn't affect them in any way? Why would a Non-Asian person have a problem with Japanese Katakana being used, it's not their culture, it's not their heritage therefore it shouldn't be offensive to them? As long as people are taught that there is a respectful way to enjoy other cultures, it shouldn't be a problem.



I am open to and passionate about so many things & I understand that we all have a right to our own opinion and it's ok to share and debate in a healthy, peaceful, non-degrading, nonharmful way.

[Sinister Shipper]

Re: cultural appropriation - I don't feel like I have anything worthwhile to add as I'm white, but I think there are valid arguments to be made on both sides. Sinister Shipper I appreciate your intense passion but I'm never gonna take an article from alibertarianfuture dot com to be fact lol, that is certainly not a reputable source. I think I mostly feel that, while not the most offensive thing in the world, there is no need for the merch to be in Japanese. I very much understand why it rubs people the wrong way, and I really enjoyed/agreed with yoursinsincerely's post

Re: moving - As much as I've loved the moving 2.0 theories I've never really been fully on board with them, and I still don't really believe they'll move imminently. However I think it's definitely plausible that this is a short-term rental, and they'll be out of this flat within 6 months to a year.

Never once stated that article was a fact, nor did I saw it was reputable, I was just giving an example that cultural appropriation doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing if done respectfully.

[jaej]

using japanese is rarely going to be comparable to using another language or culture because japan has an extremely complex history with much of the world, and a lot of it isnt known to western people because it isnt taught. there are people who say they loooove japanese culture and are respectful but think its okay to use this flag

Speaking out on things that are truly big, important issues is something that needs to be done but picking apart the use of 3 words written in a non-native language by people that you are a fan of is such a waste of time & energy. Use your voice on things that will affect & effect the world on a much greater scale. Cultural appropriation is a big deal & needs to be addressed & taken seriously. What DnP have done shouldn't have been made into a big deal when it wasn't done in a disrespectful, desecrating way. They aren't misrepresenting Japanese culture, they appreciate it.

1) it really does not take a lot of effort to say "this is embarassing and its normalising the idea to young fans that japan is an aesthetic and not a complex country". really not a waste of time and energy to spend 5 minutes typing something. there's always going to be a bigger problem than the one you're talking about, doesnt mean you cant talk about it. people addressing problems they have with d+p even if we know they arent evil bastards is fine

2) what part of japanese culture do they appreciate. they watch anime. they went to a park and a temple when they visited, in between anime stores. there are people who genuinely appreciate another culture and learn the language, look into historical facts, read literature and take in multiple types of media... anime and dating sims isnt "japanese culture" and them using it makes no sense whatsoever because they do not have a real connection to japan at all. them being "total weeaboos lmao" for joking about hentai and using japanese characters does just reduce the culture to these few things and encourages young fans to do the same. it isnt respectful when their discussions about the culture are saying how they want to fuck underage animated characters

3) less at this post but at others, japanese people will not have a singular opinion on this. stop believing that "all japanese people think its cool when foreigners like japanese stuff!!", it isnt true. the disgusting alt right government promote it because it makes japan look more important and powerful. don't fall for that shite. as well as that, theres the diaspora of japanese people in other countries who will have had different experiences with their culture than some japanese people living in japan. then there's the generation of when you were born, your ethnic group, whether you're full japanese, etc. a second gen japanese person in america will have a different experience with how their culture has been taken and used than someone in japan. even where you live in japan can have an effect, someone from okinawa has a different experience than someone from tokyo.
i'm personally mixed race and my japanese side has some zainichi korean in it (who knows how much, imperialism was a bad time) and my father moved from japan to the uk as a young adult. the harmful representations of japan that i've grown up with wont be universal for every person of japanese descent but they are widespread and shouldnt be downplayed

[leaveimreading]

Moving theories debunked? Shelves are filled.

I can't see the tweet he replied to for some reason. Someone mind filling me in?

It seems to be deleted, but here's a screenshot:

[tumblr] <div class="tumblr-post" data-href="https://embed.tumblr.com/embed/post/kho ... 3838780954" data-did="da39a3ee5e6b4b0d3255bfef95601890afd80709">[/tumblr]

Thank you! How sure are we that this picture was taken today though? I wouldn't put it past them to have planned the whole thing after seeing the theories. We've caught them before tweeting about things that happened two years ago and claiming they happened the same day they tweeted. Hypothetically, IF this was planned because there MIGHT be a move happening, then they're really trying to throw us off.

My tin foil hat is on too tight