Dan & Phil Part 54: Born in the fires of the internet

[malday]

Re: regrets and independence. Do you guys think Phil ever regrets Dan? In the same vein, most of Phil's 20s were spent with this one person who was also associated with his online career. Instead of Phil being out there meeting other people and developing different career phases, he was just as tied to Dan as Dan was to him. I'm nearing 30 myself too and idk I think I would regret that my 20s were limited in such a way.

I say that fully accepting and enjoying the fact that they both chose to live their lives this way and continue to do so. Just think the reverse of this issue is important to think about too

I don't think either regrets the other. I think for Phil this was the career path he wanted and is still developing it, and he has made a lot of friends and connections that maybe could help him further his career.
Different people have different needs and based on things he's said and done over the years, he doesn't strike me as being a social butterfly. He seemed very much settled from his early 20s.
I actually don't think he would sacrifice his happiness for his career, and neither would Dan for that matter.

[thephandommenace]

In all seriousness, though, the board game dweeb that's been inside me since childhood would probably settle for 60 minutes of Dan and Phil Play: Guess Who?

sparkle and I met up and played Guess Who? today and it was the funniest shit ever
Guess who won
I would love if D&P played it: the competitiveness, the wild guesses, the strokes of luck, Dan upsetting his board and Philly coming at you with a solid whack. It would be glorious.

I guess Scrabble wouldn't be so good for a live stream? There'd be a lot of long silences. But if it were an edited gaming video that took out a lot of the long pauses, it could work. Or if it was a game with more than 2 people so that while 1-2 people are thinking, the other 2 are chatting. Whereas CAH needs less deciding time and the bants flow more freely.

[jaej]

i was listening to a podcast about final fantasy vii this morning, and it's something that's been pretty connected to d+p since the start, but i also don't think i've ever heard either of them talk about any games in the series other than to say '7 is the best game' or dan's brief phase of reblogging nothing but ff13 gifs and memes on tumblr. are there any videos or anything of them talking about the series more? i don't remember any mentions of 15 or much depth on any of them really. i remember they said they'd do a lot of reviews and stuff on the gaming channel and i really want broad videos about different game series they like. there's some really cool videos by other people about their personal faves, what they think of tetsuya nomura (imo great character designer, terrible writer who ruins own characters), anything.

on the other hand a controversial ff/game opinion could go down worse than a controversial political comment in the year of our lord 2017 so i get why they don't post reviews, but i would like to hear more of their opinions on ff7 and the whole series, if those comments don't already exist somewhere

(this is the podcast, if anyone else is interested https://soundcloud.com/user-972508607/f ... y-7-part-1 though it's also on apple podcasts and probably elsewhere too)

[fancybum]

i was listening to a podcast about final fantasy vii this morning, and it's something that's been pretty connected to d+p since the start, but i also don't think i've ever heard either of them talk about any games in the series other than to say '7 is the best game' or dan's brief phase of reblogging nothing but ff13 gifs and memes on tumblr. are there any videos or anything of them talking about the series more? i don't remember any mentions of 15 or much depth on any of them really. i remember they said they'd do a lot of reviews and stuff on the gaming channel and i really want broad videos about different game series they like. there's some really cool videos by other people about their personal faves, what they think of tetsuya nomura (imo great character designer, terrible writer who ruins own characters), anything.

on the other hand a controversial ff/game opinion could go down worse than a controversial political comment in the year of our lord 2017 so i get why they don't post reviews, but i would like to hear more of their opinions on ff7 and the whole series, if those comments don't already exist somewhere

(this is the podcast, if anyone else is interested https://soundcloud.com/user-972508607/f ... y-7-part-1 though it's also on apple podcasts and probably elsewhere too)

Dean Dobbs started a podcast just talking about games he loves, maybe he should blackmail D&P into coming on to talk about FF.. although I'd really like them to do separate interview-type things at some point, like be a guest on somebody's podcast as separate people on separate episodes. Like Dan could go talk about Guild Wars and Phil talks about FF or something. I mean, it's not going to happen but wouldn't it be cool if it did.

[jesp]

- I want the emotes back

soon

[MythicalPinkTrashCan]

Re: regrets and independence. Do you guys think Phil ever regrets Dan? In the same vein, most of Phil's 20s were spent with this one person who was also associated with his online career. Instead of Phil being out there meeting other people and developing different career phases, he was just as tied to Dan as Dan was to him. I'm nearing 30 myself too and idk I think I would regret that my 20s were limited in such a way.

I say that fully accepting and enjoying the fact that they both chose to live their lives this way and continue to do so. Just think the reverse of this issue is important to think about too

I don't think either regrets the other. I think for Phil this was the career path he wanted and is still developing it, and he has made a lot of friends and connections that maybe could help him further his career.
Different people have different needs and based on things he's said and done over the years, he doesn't strike me as being a social butterfly. He seemed very much settled from his early 20s.
I actually don't think he would sacrifice his happiness for his career, and neither would Dan for that matter.

I got married at 19, and I'm 28 now. I settled down very early and I regret nothing. Some people are good with being locked down early.

[hello9217]

Can I confess that I really want Phil to change his YouTube picture? It's been that yellow one for forever and looks not professional and not even like him anymore.

if it's better than Dan's ' look at me, I rebranded' one.. then yes, I'm all for it. but I have to admit, I'm kind of attached to his current icon. I assume Phil is, too, maybe it holds some sentimental meaning to him or he's just afraid of change

about board games/games that are not PC, what I certainly want, no, need to see is them play cards against humanity, and scrabble. which will never happen, lbr. we were robbed of the footage of Phil winning CAH in Zoella's vlog other than that, I'm not really familiar with broad games and not sure if them playing something slow-paced for hours would make for an entertaining video, let alone for a casual viewer. I'd still probably watch it though, just for the bants.

re: Dan regretting Phil and Phil regretting Dan. I don't even know what to say here, tbh. I got the impression that Dan might have, at some point. I mean, he got from this

to firmly tying his whole brand with Phil's, creating a joint gaming channel (DanAndPhilCrafts is also something they started together ), launching a merch shop together, writing a book about their friendship, touring together.. if they had their regrets they must have got over them at some point or another. both of them have those days where they contemplate about this stuff, obviously, but the doubts they have aren't serious. I'm sure they're happy with each other and hopefully they're happy with their choices as well.
Phil gave Dan so many amazing opportunities (meeting and becoming friends with many new people and just getting tons of new connections through him, a job at bbc, etc, etc) and was one of his biggest inspirations to start youtube. and now that Dan outgrew Phil in numbers, he gets to return the favour.

See this is why I wish that deppy would just have one long deep conversation about growing up on the internet in front of so many people and how it effected them. Why did they decide to brand together as a team when Dan seemed to adamantly want to be solo? It couldn't have been just for money. What was that conversation like and who was the one that suggested it? What was it like to completely uproot their life for a small chance that the BBC would choose them? For someone like Phil, who seems to crave familiarity and consistency, how scary was that for him? These are the things I wish dnp would discuss.

[sparkle]

In all seriousness, though, the board game dweeb that's been inside me since childhood would probably settle for 60 minutes of Dan and Phil Play: Guess Who?

sparkle and I met up and played Guess Who? today and it was the funniest shit ever
Guess who won
I would love if D&P played it: the competitiveness, the wild guesses, the strokes of luck, Dan upsetting his board and Philly coming at you with a solid whack. It would be glorious.

I guess Scrabble wouldn't be so good for a live stream? There'd be a lot of long silences. But if it were an edited gaming video that took out a lot of the long pauses, it could work. Or if it was a game with more than 2 people so that while 1-2 people are thinking, the other 2 are chatting. Whereas CAH needs less deciding time and the bants flow more freely.

You only won because you got lucky with a wild guess!!! I demand a rematch!

I know I'm deep in the trash when i'd genuinely watch them play snap for 30 minutes. Whoever suggested Gloom, I'd love that too

See this is why I wish that deppy would just have one long deep conversation about growing up on the internet in front of so many people and how it effected them. Why did they decide to brand together as a team when Dan seemed to adamantly want to be solo? It couldn't have been just for money. What was that conversation like and who was the one that suggested it? What was it like to completely uproot their life for a small chance that the BBC would choose them? For someone like Phil, who seems to crave familiarity and consistency, how scary was that for him? These are the things I wish dnp would discuss.

YES YES YES YES YES.

If I had infinite money and resources and contacts I'd love to do a Sociology PhD on a topic like this. I'd fucking love them to do more interviews like this.

So I've been thinking quite a bit about something and I think it could make for interesting discussion, do you think Dan ever regrets Phil, I mean as someone who seems to doubt so many of his life choices I'm sure there must have been a moment in which he has regretted growing up with Phil, I don't mean this in a bad way but Dan went from being 18 to living with Phil right away I guess he never really had that Independence i feel as if he didn't experience a lot of life things because of being with Phil (and that's not necessarily a bad thing) i hope this made sense any thoughts?

Dan did have a year in halls (feel sorry for him because UoM halls are horrible ) and that is an independent living situation. Halls is very intense and very much a culture shock, so a lot of the 'independent' stuff happens very quickly. And where Dans halls weren't exactly on top of where Phil lived, he definitely got some form of independent living done.

I think though if you mean he never really had freedom because he moved in with Phil about 6 weeks after he left halls then yeah I guess he never had that. I think it would be natural for Dan to feel like it was a mistake, like its normal to have 'wtf am i doing moments' especially I guess in the period of 2011-2014, you know when Dans privacy was being violated? I think that is when Dan would be most likely to regret it. I think this shifts when you start to see him commit more to Phil through their joint branding, as he makes choice to be closer to Phil. Maybe he wanted to assert his independence initially but now doesn't?

Saying that though, Dan made the choice and continues to make the choice to commit to Phil. He didnt have to move in with Phil in Manchester, he didnt have to move to London, he didnt have to stay for five years, and he didnt have to move again with him. As someone who had something v similar happen (met my girlfriend, she lived in halls I lived with friends, she basically moved in for 6 months, we moved to our own flat, 2 years later we still live together, i'm the oldest and i'm only 22) like there are moments when you can back out. Sometimes you just know its right and want to live with that person. Which is how I think Dan felt.

Phil on the other hand, he had his time at uni, but his time living alone as an adult was taken up by Dan. Dan was always over, Dans family were so far away and Phil looked after him when he was really sick (did he have appendicitis? either way I feel sorry for him being stuck in MRI that hospital sucks) and Phil had this situation where he was living alone but not quite alone? And then Dan moved in, and I think thats something that is interesting too. Did Phil regret that the one year he lived independently he had Dan living within walking distance?

Besides, there was no reason why Dan couldn't have come to Manchester and moved straight in with Phil. You don't have to live in halls - so I think their living choices in this first year were very deliberate and I think their choice to move in together was also VERY deliberate. They clearly wanted to, and they clearly still want to buy a forever home.

Hey, they first time in days I'm caught up on on the thread.

I think all you've said above has gone through both of their minds and maybe prompted some regrets (you can regret some things without regretting your overall choices). The bit I bolded above is what first came to my mind. Does Phil regret that his chance to live independently for awhile before settling down just turned into having his boyfriend there most of the time anyway? Perhaps more interestingly, does Dan regret it? I actually think he might feel a little bad, in retrospect, about having taken up Phil's space then. They did what felt right for them at the time, and it's obviously worked out, but I can see Dan in retrospect feeling a bit sorry that Phil didn't have as much of an "independent" thing going as he might have wanted. That is, I can see Dan regretting that Phil didn't get something that might have been important to him. I think a lot of regrets about the past are not about missed opportunities for yourself so much as about how you impacted other people.

I think Phil needed someone around, because he's said before he goes weird when he's on his own too long, but I wonder how different it would have been if Dan had gone to Leeds or Liverpool (both within commuting distance to Manchester), or even York instead of UoM.

I do think Dan, who is obviously insecure and introspective (he reminds me of Gerard Way a lot - I think G was a big influence on him) would've thought about this a lot. I think Phil was okay with it, because if he wasn't it wouldn't have happened, but I wonder if Phil regrets some of the situation with the year Dan was at uni.

It does sometimes feel like the stars aligned with Dan and Phil, like UoM is notoriously hard to get into for Law and Dan got an unconditional when he didnt even make the entry requirements.

[thatdanandphilguy]

I find it hard to believe that either of them would actually have regretted having met each other that early. I’m sure they both have questioned what would their life be like if they hadn’t met, if things had gone differently, but coming to decision that they’re happy that things went the way they did and they’re where they are now. They're doing what they enjoy and while I'm sure it's been a bumpy ride, I like to believe that they're happy.

Imo being in your twenties isn’t really that great, it’s full of uncertainty, pain, fucking up, learning from your mistakes, it’s carefree and fun at times too of course, but in general being young isn’t really the best part of your life. I think they’ve both had their fair share of all of those things, the difference is that they’ve experienced it all together, grown up to be adults together and that is something very special, to have that kind of bond with someone. And like someone said, they’ve chosen that path. Considering what they have now and what they’ve experienced together, I think having lived independent only for a short time is not really a big loss.

[malday]

Can I confess that I really want Phil to change his YouTube picture? It's been that yellow one for forever and looks not professional and not even like him anymore.

if it's better than Dan's ' look at me, I rebranded' one.. then yes, I'm all for it. but I have to admit, I'm kind of attached to his current icon. I assume Phil is, too, maybe it holds some sentimental meaning to him or he's just afraid of change

about board games/games that are not PC, what I certainly want, no, need to see is them play cards against humanity, and scrabble. which will never happen, lbr. we were robbed of the footage of Phil winning CAH in Zoella's vlog other than that, I'm not really familiar with broad games and not sure if them playing something slow-paced for hours would make for an entertaining video, let alone for a casual viewer. I'd still probably watch it though, just for the bants.

re: Dan regretting Phil and Phil regretting Dan. I don't even know what to say here, tbh. I got the impression that Dan might have, at some point. I mean, he got from this

to firmly tying his whole brand with Phil's, creating a joint gaming channel (DanAndPhilCrafts is also something they started together ), launching a merch shop together, writing a book about their friendship, touring together.. if they had their regrets they must have got over them at some point or another. both of them have those days where they contemplate about this stuff, obviously, but the doubts they have aren't serious. I'm sure they're happy with each other and hopefully they're happy with their choices as well.
Phil gave Dan so many amazing opportunities (meeting and becoming friends with many new people and just getting tons of new connections through him, a job at bbc, etc, etc) and was one of his biggest inspirations to start youtube. and now that Dan outgrew Phil in numbers, he gets to return the favour.

See this is why I wish that deppy would just have one long deep conversation about growing up on the internet in front of so many people and how it effected them. Why did they decide to brand together as a team when Dan seemed to adamantly want to be solo? It couldn't have been just for money. What was that conversation like and who was the one that suggested it? What was it like to completely uproot their life for a small chance that the BBC would choose them? For someone like Phil, who seems to crave familiarity and consistency, how scary was that for him? These are the things I wish dnp would discuss.

In this interview from 2013 when asked about future career plans, Dan includes Phil and speaks for both, (while Phil speaks about himself) :
Starting at 19:00 min.(19:58 for tv show talk)

So i don't know how adamantly Dan wanted to be solo.

[goingbackto505]

See this is why I wish that deppy would just have one long deep conversation about growing up on the internet in front of so many people and how it effected them. Why did they decide to brand together as a team when Dan seemed to adamantly want to be solo? It couldn't have been just for money. What was that conversation like and who was the one that suggested it? What was it like to completely uproot their life for a small chance that the BBC would choose them? For someone like Phil, who seems to crave familiarity and consistency, how scary was that for him? These are the things I wish dnp would discuss.

couldn't agree more. all of this essentially is the most interesting thing to me, not the 'mystery' of their relationship status or their sexualities. I want to know how they got from "we're not a double act, we don't want to be a double act" and Dan basically saying that his solo content is more popular than his collabs with Phil and that's what his audience wants more, statistically, to "we're basically the less successful version of Ant and Dec"

I mean, I agree with Dan here, they are separate people, but I really want to know how they got from that point to where they are now and how that decision was made. it happened in the span of one year, from what I assume, which is pretty fast. and yes, I would really love to hear Phil talk about how he handled the whole leaving Manchester for London thing, he probably has already discussed it in some way during one of his liveshows, but I just don't remember ever hearing it.

[alittledizzy]

Imo they just grew up. Dan at twenty one probably still felt like he was finding himself and was defining what role YouTube played to him and his identity; Dan at 24 and on seemed a lot more confident in that identity and, at this point in his life, quite sure and content in the fact that YouTube is both most satisfying and most lucrative to him when he does it with Phil.

It all comes back to the fact that people change and grow. You're not locked into a perspective, online or in life.

[rainydays]

I find it hard to believe that either of them would actually have regretted having met each other that early. I’m sure they both have questioned what would their life be like if they hadn’t met, if things had gone differently, but coming to decision that they’re happy that things went the way they did and they’re where they are now. They're doing what they enjoy and while I'm sure it's been a bumpy ride, I like to believe that they're happy.

Imo being in your twenties isn’t really that great, it’s full of uncertainty, pain, fucking up, learning from your mistakes, it’s carefree and fun at times too of course, but in general being young isn’t really the best part of your life. I think they’ve both had their fair share of all of those things, the difference is that they’ve experienced it all together, grown up to be adults together and that is something very special, to have that kind of bond with someone. And like someone said, they’ve chosen that path. Considering what they have now and what they’ve experienced together, I think having lived independent only for a short time is not really a big loss.

I agree with this completely. As someone in their early twenties I can confirm that it's not fun at all. I'm sure people have different experiences, but personally I've been struggling so much with figuring out who I am or what I want to do with my life ever since I turned 18 and graduated high school. Once out of high school, I felt unmoored. There wasn't anyone to tell me what to do anymore, my life was officially in my own hands and I had to figure out who I really wanted to be. At the same time though, I wasn't entirely indipendent, I was still forced to rely on my parents for money. I was and still am constantly dealing with uncertainty and doubt and crippling fear of the future. I would have and would still give anything to have some sense of safety around me, someone that I can turn to and face every scary thing in the world with. I can't tell you how much I envy Dan and Phil's bond (no matter the nature of their relationship), how familiar and safe it seems to be. The way I see it, they haven't experienced less because of their relationship, if anything everything that came out of it gave them the chance to experience more and to do it together. And I really can't think of any better way to experience the world, to travel, to work and to live your life than with the person you love most by your side, the one that makes you feel safe and like no matter what happens, you will never be alone.
Also just moving out of their parents' houses and being able to make their own money and financially support themselves is huge and I'm sure it gave them all the sense of indipendency they craved.

[DryCereal]

i was listening to a podcast about final fantasy vii this morning, and it's something that's been pretty connected to d+p since the start, but i also don't think i've ever heard either of them talk about any games in the series other than to say '7 is the best game' or dan's brief phase of reblogging nothing but ff13 gifs and memes on tumblr. are there any videos or anything of them talking about the series more? i don't remember any mentions of 15 or much depth on any of them really. i remember they said they'd do a lot of reviews and stuff on the gaming channel and i really want broad videos about different game series they like. there's some really cool videos by other people about their personal faves, what they think of tetsuya nomura (imo great character designer, terrible writer who ruins own characters), anything.

on the other hand a controversial ff/game opinion could go down worse than a controversial political comment in the year of our lord 2017 so i get why they don't post reviews, but i would like to hear more of their opinions on ff7 and the whole series, if those comments don't already exist somewhere

(this is the podcast, if anyone else is interested https://soundcloud.com/user-972508607/f ... y-7-part-1 though it's also on apple podcasts and probably elsewhere too)

Dean Dobbs started a podcast just talking about games he loves, maybe he should blackmail D&P into coming on to talk about FF.. although I'd really like them to do separate interview-type things at some point, like be a guest on somebody's podcast as separate people on separate episodes. Like Dan could go talk about Guild Wars and Phil talks about FF or something. I mean, it's not going to happen but wouldn't it be cool if it did.

One of my fave D&PG vids is "Dan Plays: POKÉMON OMEGA RUBY - first 20 minutes!" mainly because it's just him playing a game he really likes/enjoys and it's lovely to see him being all excited and happy and fanboying. and it's something we saw from them both at points in the Undertale series, which I also really enjoyed watching; so...

HELL YES SOMEONE MAKE THEM TALK ABOUT GUILD WARS AND FF AND OTHER GAMES THEY LOVE!!!!

Ahem.

Phil saying he listens to and likes the FFXV soundtrack last night made me happy, especially because the soundtrack is underused in that game, and gets crowded out by other SFX, but it's gorgeous. Well worth a listen

[susan2]

new Sims!

[sparkle]

UGHHHH why must it be Sims...

(waits patiently for summary)

[archived]

I think the reason i don't enjoy the Sims videos very much is I have played it so much (admittedly only Sims 2 & 3) that I have achieved what they have done in 40+ episodes in an couple of hours play time myself. Like with Sims the plot is just moving too slowly for me to enjoy it. I lowkey don't like Dalien because it has really slowed up the focus of Dab and Dab growing up which is all I really care about at the moment.

[ArtyJim]

i love the sims videos and this one was especially funny to me. i have to get to work otherwise i'd have more to say haha

[somethingsketchy]

That was... pretty boring, I'd say. There was great arm contact, though.

[sparkle]

I think the reason i don't enjoy the Sims videos very much is I have played it so much (admittedly only Sims 2 & 3) that I have achieved what they have done in 40+ episodes in an couple of hours play time myself. Like with Sims the plot is just moving too slowly for me to enjoy it. I lowkey don't like Dalien because it has really slowed up the focus of Dab and Dab growing up which is all I really care about at the moment.

honestly this is me tbh. Like my favourite is Sims 2 (no exaggeration, I probably have 1,000+ hours on that game) but I've played all 4 on PC/Mac and I like to play it very specifically. I lost interest as soon as they 'settled down' with Tabitha because I'm not a huge fan of pursuing families in the Sims - I'd rather role play a single character in a very specific storyline. So as soon as Tabitha/Dab/Dalien came into it I lost interest.

[saffarinda]

I actually really loved that sims episode! I feel like the past few that they've put out haven't been making me laugh as much but this just seemed really nice? The glitches were hilarious, I burst out laughing when Dab suddenly appeared in Dil's arms at the table and when he was invisible.

Phil's lil *feed (what the hell Dan) made me laugh too, it's nice to know phil edits them because i really love the editing and i was wondering

i'd write more bc i really liked it but my parents just rushed out the house because somethings happened to my grandparents sorry

[SquishPhan]

I really enjoyed this sims episode. Dalien is adorable, and I just liked the nice and relaxed vibe of it.

[yellowsubmarine]

Dan is wearing his no-face sweater consider me sold already!!! He is looking so cuuute

I'm weirdly invested in their Sims series, I don't know why. I've never played it, maybe that's it. I mean, there's only so much you can do to make it interesting, but I still liked it.

SPOILERS (?)
Now, my favorite parts have nothing to do with the sims: that part where they're talking about volcanoes in chemistry class, oh yes that was everything.
Dalien is ginger, well go figure what a strange coincidence. There it is, the deppy ginger child.

One of my fave D&PG vids is "Dan Plays: POKÉMON OMEGA RUBY - first 20 minutes!" mainly because it's just him playing a game he really likes/enjoys and it's lovely to see him being all excited and happy and fanboying. and it's something we saw from them both at points in the Undertale series, which I also really enjoyed watching; so...

That video hold such a special place in my heart!!! Ah I just love seeing Dan so into a game, he looks 10 times more lovely than usual

[citizen_erased]

I actually really loved that sims episode! I feel like the past few that they've put out haven't been making me laugh as much but this just seemed really nice? The glitches were hilarious, I burst out laughing when Dab suddenly appeared in Dil's arms at the table and when he was invisible.

Phil's lil *feed (what the hell Dan) made me laugh too, it's nice to know phil edits them because i really love the editing and i was wondering

i'd write more bc i really liked it but my parents just rushed out the house because somethings happened to my grandparents sorry

I agree those glitches were great, I thought the koala-ing was terrifying and amazing at the same time.

I loved the little discussions about their family and school in between the playing, where Dan kind of leans over on one elbow? Those tiny little tidbits were very domestic and great. (Also I'm so jealous of Dan getting to do those volcano-building things, my school was so boring, we didn't get any of those kinds of awesome projects at all).

No need to apologize for not writing more! I hope your grandparents are ok!

[archived]

I think the reason i don't enjoy the Sims videos very much is I have played it so much (admittedly only Sims 2 & 3) that I have achieved what they have done in 40+ episodes in an couple of hours play time myself. Like with Sims the plot is just moving too slowly for me to enjoy it. I lowkey don't like Dalien because it has really slowed up the focus of Dab and Dab growing up which is all I really care about at the moment.

honestly this is me tbh. Like my favourite is Sims 2 (no exaggeration, I probably have 1,000+ hours on that game) but I've played all 4 on PC/Mac and I like to play it very specifically. I lost interest as soon as they 'settled down' with Tabitha because I'm not a huge fan of pursuing families in the Sims - I'd rather role play a single character in a very specific storyline. So as soon as Tabitha/Dab/Dalien came into it I lost interest.

Mine basically behind 'how many women can you seduce and impregnate' simulator. Jesus Christ my man was a player.