Dan & Phil Part 54: Born in the fires of the internet

Our two favourite full time internet nerds who never go outside!
mm_sunny1993
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autumnhearth wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:52 pm
First of all this is amazing! Glad to know I'm not alone in my boredom/obsession. We've come to some of the same conclusions but there are some things I disagree with or am still confused by. I took screen shots of your slides so I could respond page by page. I think I actually solved a mystery!
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Ha! We used the same four images. I do think those are all in the same room. The thing hanging is a light, there are two of them and I imagine they are right above the dining table. My question is, what is on the other side of the table, opposite the curved grey wall? I'm pretty sure there are windows/a sliding glass door to the left that lead out to the balcony in the video. But is this in just a dining alcove? Or are there cabinets on the wall we can't see? Or is the kitchen further over in the white area where Phil is standing (literally where the camera is). Also what could be behind that door? Does it connect to the hallway at all? I figured this area was open to the slounge, but who knows?

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While I agree that they have at least three bathrooms, I do question if the thumbnail for that liveshow is taken in one of them. Those tile tiles could be the backsplash in one of the kitchens. It seems a more likely place to sip tea, but who knows, Dan is weird.

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Yep, all of this is what we know to be upstairs. All the flooring is the same. Thanks for including the stairs of doom, I forgot to in my post. That hallway/entryway is most interesting to me. But while the door on the right does appear the same as the one seen in the moon room below, the handle and hinges are on the wrong side for that to work. Perhaps it is an upstairs guest bathroom, which would make sense if that white door is their "front door". The little glass half-wall in the bamboo pic puzzles me, I don't see how the moon room could be "behind" it, but beyond that curve may be a hall to that hallway and or the moon room.

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See the hinges? But these two slide next to each other does solidify by belief that the moon room is upstairs, it has the same vibe as the rest of the upstairs.

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Yep! They even open on different sides!

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Nothing really to add here except, oh look it does have the same white tile flooring as the rest of the downstairs, fancy that! I really would like to see more of this room.

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Okay, here is where I disagree with you. While those are the same type of blinds, I don't think the balcony is off of Phil's room. I think it is off of the downstairs dining area. While not all the blinds are the same on each level of the duplex, these two appear to be (with the gaming room shade being different). However if your theory is correct, that would certainly open Phil's room up and make it feel bigger. Not sure what you mean by the blinds in the kitchen being black. Are you talking about the upstairs kitchen? Maybe, they at least seem to have black dividers/frames. But downstairs I think they are white. And the tile being the same as Phil's room doesn't mean anything as all the rooms downstairs seem to have the same white tile, with the exception of a bathroom or two.

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Yep on the filming area, yep on the hallway being dowstairs, but I'm not sure about the stairs leading into it. In the shot of Dan going down the stairs it seems to lead to an area with a white cubby shelf, maybe with shoes on it. I have no idea where "Daniel's Room" is, but I agree it is probably not the moon room. I don't think it's part of the same hallway that they fight in as it has a different color wall. Maybe it's on the other side of the slounge.

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Yep, clear as day there is a white door inside the gaming room, different from the dark wood door leading out of it. I don't think it would make sense to lead to Phil's room or the slounge. The gaming room already has a big sliding door closet we saw, though I suppose it could be a cupboard. I find it more likely to be a bathroom, Phil wasn't gone long at all when he checked on his contact in the last stream. Could it be:

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Oh look we have a match! Same color door, opens the same way and they even have the same corner. Winking girl was filmed in the gaming room! Damn Phil gave a bedroom with an attached bathroom for that little AP room? I can hardly believe this is the same boy who took the bedroom with the en suite in their Manchester flat. I guess your priorities change as you get older. Or something... :illuminati:
Nice catch with the bathroom next to the gaming room, I think you're right it makes sense. Yes i was talking about the kitchen upstairs when i said it had black blinds.
And i also would like to see more of the slounge. It actually surprises me that we haven't seen it as it is the room that has all their old stuff and they said they would film in there often. :shrug:
This flat layout will forever be a complete mystery but I think we are getting closer step by step :thumb:
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autumnhearth wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:02 pm

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Let's start outside! Very interesting, I'm guessing rather distinct siding, some note worthy reflections that I have no idea what to make of. Why is that plant all tied up? It's friend has lots of yellow leaves. Plant abuse! This image shows the white tile floors very clearly. And note the vertical slat blinds.

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This is probably filmed on the other side of the door to the balcony, though I suppose there could be other windows with these blinds on the lower level. Damn rowing!Daniel

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I do think that this room (downstairs kitchen/dining) opens up to the balcony, note the metal handle (sliding glass door?) and possible blind to the left. He is sat at a wooden table with grey translucent chair. Which can be seen below.

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The wall has a slightly more purple tinge, but I think it's just the lighting, it's the same table and chairs, note the curved wall and white tile flooring in the bottom right corner.

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Same wall perhaps, or at least in the same general area? If this is the second kitchen, the kool-aid makes sense. Note the metal hanging light(s).

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Same wall? Same light? I love this shot.

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Empty immaculately clean fridge, as if it has never been used. Sure there are other theories: just cleaned before vacation, emptied and cleaned especially for this video for that nice grocery store feel or so they aren't judge by their fridge contents, the boys never cook and actually get take away all the time so their fringe has always been empty (contradicted below), they are moving right now, or people are moving them while their on vacation, but honestly I think second unused fridge makes the most sense in context. Unfortunately this shot is so close up, it's hard to truly know this fridge's location. But it can't be the same as the one downstairs, see below:

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Dare to compare. Oh! Unless one of these images is flipped (which based on Dan's fringe and the writing they aren't), the two fridge's appear to open on different sides! Also I'm pretty sure that is light yellow wooden flooring he is sat on, which matches up well with the screen shots below.

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I know the lighting itself is pretty yellow, but that's not a white tile floor in that kitchen, which makes perfect sense as it flows from the upstairs lounge.

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Second shot of the upstairs kitchen with clear shot of the table, chairs and windows, the center of which has a door that probably leads to a balcony, but not the one seen at the beginning of Dan's video. Note no visible window hangings.


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So this is curious. At first I assumed this white tile was the downstairs flooring, but then why are there glasses of water on the floor? Could this instead be the surface of one of their countertops?

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Close up of tiles, what is going on in the background? I don't think it makes sense as a floor. Any ideas?

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Alright "Daniel's Room". So I guess this battered name plaque from Dan's old room could be hanging on the door to the moon room... but I'm not so sure. I think it's a perfect prop for this video, to stand in for his dorm room. I guess I just don't want to imagine it as a permanent fixture on the outside of the master bedroom. My poor little shipper heart would rather picture that adorable Dan & Phil cross stitch that was hanging on the master bedroom door of the tour bus. Maybe he switched them out for the video. Maybe that door isn't even to the moon room. Maybe he likes rubbing it in Phil's face that he got the bigger room, but still let's him sleep there sometimes. Maybe I'm in denial. But worth noting are the very grey walls, the rich warm doors that can be found downstairs and what is that odd metal square with circle inside it in the bottom right hand corner. It reminds me of the handle on an airplane lavatory. UK people please help me understand!

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While we're showing doors, let's do the hallway. Three visible doors, two of which are dark, one of which is light, smaller and maybe has a handle like that odd metal thing I was asking about above. The walls are white, the floor tiles are white. It is unlikely that "Daniel's Room" is in this hall, unless there is an accent wall where the camera is.

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Is this the same door seen above? It seems to be the same color and size, though the door handle is clear here. It looks like we are looking around a large corner, but I think the camera is just really close to the door frame... or maybe not. This bathroom could be upstairs, maybe in the moon room. One thing is clear however. It is not the same bathroom seen in 'A Very Sleepless Night With Phil'.

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Different door, different handle, and note the curve tile wall.

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Hinge side of the door.

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Mirror shot with clear shot of the shower.

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Not the same tile in my opinion. So the shower vodka facial footage and the girl winking footage seem to be filmed in the same bathroom, but it's different from the one seen in 'A Sleepless Night With Phil'

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You can see the shower tile and the an additional maroon tile.

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Let's see what else. Well there is the wash/dryer footage. I do think it would make sense for a washer/dryer to be in their upstairs (main) kitchen, since the drying rack was in there during Dan's ls, but I'm not convinced that there isn't another one downstairs and that's what we're seeing here. First of all the panel covering it and next to it is white, not grey (the upstairs fridge and kitchen cabinets appear to be grey though there could be white ones on the other side) and...

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I'm guessing this shot is taken right next to it (though I guess those could be any of the white storage doors, I'm going to assume that he did the shots together and did travel upstairs and back downstairs for them). White tile flooring, probs downstairs.

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The safe/filing cabinet thingy I mentioned, in Dan's video background.

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Note glass door and the reflection of the slounge. As for as we know this is the only entrance to the dinof room.

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I don't see how this solid wooden door with Dan's room plaque could also be to this room and I don't see glass or curtain in that shot, just solid grey wall. What do you all think? Looks solid, albeit confusing to me.

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I have more screen shots but this is getting so long. I did want to include this one, lifted from a video of scenes from the Tinder Spon (rip) This appears to be an entry area upstairs (note the flooring) note also the different doors (weird hinge on wall, bottom left corner). While the light brown door looks the same as the one in Dan's moon room, the hinges are on the wrong sides.
Oh wow, I wish I had seen this post before I replied above. Thank you for all the photos, you are definitely giving me life by posting them all *bows down*.

I didn't even notice they had two dining room tables, the two flat theory (one for them and one for filming) is definitely growing stronger in my mind now. There is no chance you can convince me that they need 2 dining room tables (with at least 10 chairs between the two), two kitchens, 2 lounges and a multitude of toilets just for them two. I could easily see them getting a flat just for filming and then one private just for them so they can keep whatever they like in there. When Dan posted the text from Phil about coming upstairs for the pidegon showdown, maybe it's because he couldn't just shout down those glass stairs because Dan was filming in the other flat. Oooh, I love this theory so much haha. It seems like the rooms "downstairs" are the ones set up to look like the old flat whereas "upstairs" is much newer and modern, with their new trendy household items!
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ps. anyone got suggestions for the next thread name, i'll be making the poll in the next 30 or so minutes....
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000dia000
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Question: to what degree can someone say they have a *mild* symptom of something, before someone on the internet disagrees with them and tell them that they are lying? If someone said that they had mild claustrophobia, that would be taken with reason. However, whenever someone expresses discomfort either with going outside, socializing, or has mood swings, suddenly everyone is a mental health expert and this person has no right self-diagnosing themselves with mild anything? Anyway, Dan's wording doesn't really sound like someone who is diagnosed with anything, it sounds like someone who has identified the problems they have and there explanation is that it has the symptoms of a particular mental illness, in Dan's case this being agoraphobia. Dan might indeed have mild agoraphobia and/or social anxiety. Maybe he doesn't at all. However, his wording and his discussion of these symptoms have helped him to identify what is bothering him. Isn't it better to self identify and discuss issues, attempt to resolve them, rather than have them spiral them out of control until you finally have a diagnosis and only then you can only talk about it? I think that people have various degrees of a certain issue, not everybody is the same, I think that in Dan's case he's just trying to open up and talk about them.

However, I think that there is a degree in what someone can over stress their problems and trivialize them, to the point that they lose all meaning. Dan has done this with his "existential crisis" that eventually lost all meaning and the phandom started to joke about. I remember pictures of one of their stage shows, of a few dozen teenage girls stretched out in the front hall of a theater having an "existential crisis". Just for the lols. Not like I know people who went through severe depression and would just lie down on the floor in their kitchen for hours on end. Of course, when things become too trivialized and self-diagnosed, they begin to lose all meaning and if *everyone* has anxiety, how do you know how bad you yourself are? Or maybe actually talking about anxiety, and mental health issues helps break down the stigmatization surrounding it and help people to talk about problems or feelings and help them open up and more and address issues. It's a hard case. I think I would prefer Dan stating that he's not entirely great, and be more open, than bottling up everything.

However, if I was to criticize Dan's approach, I think my main problem about him is that he tends to glamorize bad mental health, like a lot. He tends to base a lot of his career's success around his bad mental health, and people laughing him, as something positive. Perhaps as a coping mechanism? First of all, owing success to poor mental being is not exactly a great attribute he should use for someone as influential on young people as he is. Most of all, something that's the icing on the cake: he talks about his poor mental health but not fucking once has he addressed how he can self improve. Instead of wallowing in self-pity like he usually does. I know that things don't get better overnight, things are difficult, and that it is scary to even climb out of the hole. But Dan is able-bodied, he is fine enough to get out of bed, and make videos (albeit rarely) but has never, not once made a video or discussed how you can self improve yourself. Therapy, maybe? Finding resources? The only thing I can think of that he has to push him, is that video making is his career, he has starting exercising, sometimes eats a salad, and probably had Phil to push him along. The issue though, is that he constantly downplays the friendships and relationships he might have in his life, that inspire him, help him, and insight him to continue. He makes everything sound like a singular battle and has no appreciation or acknowledgment of how he is quite fortunate to have a network of people supporting him, even his own fans. He wallows in self pity a lot, or maybe he doesn't really, but his persona sure does.

[Offtopic]
Anyway, I liked the video. One of his best this year. I was meant to go back to uni today, but I'm sick. A lot of his disconnect with making friends and meeting new people in uni really hit home for me. Any young people here still in school: if anybody told you, you will peak in uni and make loads of new friends...they're lying :bigthumbsup: sometimes when you try, you just don't anyway.[/Offtopic]
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malday wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:13 pm
Aren't these all things we already knew, though?
And two flats possibly connected, which i'm certain they are, doesn't that actually fit the definition of a duplex? which they already said it was.
'Duplex' to me means one single apartment but set across two floors. I guess what I'm suggesting is that they have two duplexes (dupli?) or a duplex (for living) and an apartment (for filming) in the same block of flats. With different external entrances. Paying two sets of rent.

Good catch on the two dining tables too - that definitely gives more weight to the two-flats theory in my eyes! And missemma what you said about Phil coming upstairs for the pigeon, I was actually going to mention that in my original post as 'proof' one of the flats could be on a higher floor of the block. The evidence is mounting!

P.S 000dia000 I 100% agree with what you say about Dan trivialising/glamorising bad mental health (whether knowingly or unknowingly). It's kind of what I was trying to articulate but clearly couldn't. And I desperately hope 'mild agoraphobia' isn't the new 'existential crisis' in that regard.
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000dia000 wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:40 pm Question: to what degree can someone say they have a *mild* symptom of something, before someone on the internet disagrees with them and tell them that they are lying? If someone said that they had mild claustrophobia, that would be taken with reason. However, whenever someone expresses discomfort either with going outside, socializing, or has mood swings, suddenly everyone is a mental health expert and this person has no right self-diagnosing themselves with mild anything? Anyway, Dan's wording doesn't really sound like someone who is diagnosed with anything, it sounds like someone who has identified the problems they have and there explanation is that it has the symptoms of a particular mental illness, in Dan's case this being agoraphobia. Dan might indeed have mild agoraphobia and/or social anxiety. Maybe he doesn't at all. However, his wording and his discussion of these symptoms have helped him to identify what is bothering him. Isn't it better to self identify and discuss issues, attempt to resolve them, rather than have them spiral them out of control until you finally have a diagnosis and only then you can only talk about it? I think that people have various degrees of a certain issue, not everybody is the same, I think that in Dan's case he's just trying to open up and talk about them.

However, I think that there is a degree in what someone can over stress their problems and trivialize them, to the point that they lose all meaning. Dan has done this with his "existential crisis" that eventually lost all meaning and the phandom started to joke about. I remember pictures of one of their stage shows, of a few dozen teenage girls stretched out in the front hall of a theater having an "existential crisis". Just for the lols. Not like I know people who went through severe depression and would just lie down on the floor in their kitchen for hours on end. Of course, when things become too trivialized and self-diagnosed, they begin to lose all meaning and if *everyone* has anxiety, how do you know how bad you yourself are? Or maybe actually talking about anxiety, and mental health issues helps break down the stigmatization surrounding it and help people to talk about problems or feelings and help them open up and more and address issues. It's a hard case. I think I would prefer Dan stating that he's not entirely great, and be more open, than bottling up everything.

However, if I was to criticize Dan's approach, I think my main problem about him is that he tends to glamorize bad mental health, like a lot. He tends to base a lot of his career's success around his bad mental health, and people laughing him, as something positive. Perhaps as a coping mechanism? First of all, owing success to poor mental being is not exactly a great attribute he should use for someone as influential on young people as he is. Most of all, something that's the icing on the cake: he talks about his poor mental health but not fucking once has he addressed how he can self improve. Instead of wallowing in self-pity like he usually does. I know that things don't get better overnight, things are difficult, and that it is scary to even climb out of the hole. But Dan is able-bodied, he is fine enough to get out of bed, and make videos (albeit rarely) but has never, not once made a video or discussed how you can self improve yourself. Therapy, maybe? Finding resources? The only thing I can think of that he has to push him, is that video making is his career, he has starting exercising, sometimes eats a salad, and probably had Phil to push him along. The issue though, is that he constantly downplays the friendships and relationships he might have in his life, that inspire him, help him, and insight him to continue. He makes everything sound like a singular battle and has no appreciation or acknowledgment of how he is quite fortunate to have a network of people supporting him, even his own fans. He wallows in self pity a lot, or maybe he doesn't really, but his persona sure does.
does dan ever stated/suggested that his existential crisises = depression? like an illness, not just depressed mood? for me thay are just to different things.

i feel like he adressed some problems in this video, like just - 'ask for help, ask questions', repeatedly - it's good for keeping mental health when trying to adapt to new enviroment. ;)
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blackdenim wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:43 pmP.S 000dia000 I 100% agree with what you say about Dan trivialising/glamorising bad mental health (whether knowingly or unknowingly). It's kind of what I was trying to articulate but clearly couldn't. And I desperately hope 'mild agoraphobia' isn't the new 'existential crisis' in that regard.
and I want to agree with both of you, your guys' posts are probably the best/better way to put it, at least for me :thx:
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autumnhearth wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:02 pm Image
Alright "Daniel's Room". So I guess this battered name plaque from Dan's old room could be hanging on the door to the moon room... but I'm not so sure. I think it's a perfect prop for this video, to stand in for his dorm room. I guess I just don't want to imagine it as a permanent fixture on the outside of the master bedroom. My poor little shipper heart would rather picture that adorable Dan & Phil cross stitch that was hanging on the master bedroom door of the tour bus. Maybe he switched them out for the video. Maybe that door isn't even to the moon room. Maybe he likes rubbing it in Phil's face that he got the bigger room, but still let's him sleep there sometimes. Maybe I'm in denial. But worth noting are the very grey walls, the rich warm doors that can be found downstairs and what is that odd metal square with circle inside it in the bottom right hand corner. It reminds me of the handle on an airplane lavatory. UK people please help me understand!
If you consider the downstairs space to actually be an apartment dedicated solely for their filming sets, them maybe "Daniel's room" might be a room that was supposed to have his old background: old bed and stuff that recreates his room, but they gave up on the idea and decided to film in the space he currently does. Maybe it was because people didn't really buy that Phil's room is his actual bedroom and would do the same with Dan's "room".
blackdenim wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:43 pm 'Duplex' to me means one single apartment but set across two floors. I guess what I'm suggesting is that they have two duplexes (dupli?) or a duplex (for living) and an apartment (for filming) in the same block of flats. With different external entrances. Paying two sets of rent.
That would make moving again really easy, while they keep that apartment for filming videos, none would be the wiser. :illuminati: But damn what a waste of money.
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Mental health shit

In the past I have been annoyed by the 'I never go outside' comments. With Dan's knack for making everything seem worse than it is, how 'not going outside' has been glorified as quirky and funny in recent years, and the obvious prove that he goes outside plenty, I kinda disregarded it. Not in a way that I thought he was a complete liar (because he obviously had mental health issues for years) I was mostly being cautious. Like I said recently, Dan used to have his existential crisis thing which he made an activr part of his branding and many people who suffered from it called him out on the way he displayed it in videos because it made it obvious he didn't actually understand what existentialism was (according to them, idk shit about it). It made me wary on what was real and what wasn't, and how much he actually understood.

But Dan has put a name to 'never going outside' twice now in recent videos (apparently, I choose to forget the mem video happened). And that does tell me that he does suffer from agoraphobia. It might not be as severe as other people have it (I took days off from the shelter last week to mourn my dead cat and literally did not go outside as a result aside from one evening pharmacy trup) but it's a problem for him, maybe one that has gotten worse recently. And it gave me the hope that he has perhaps started seeking professional help because I never wanted (or knew how to) name my mental health problems before I got help either. I know self diagnosers also name everything they think they have, but it took Dan years and his problems have always been consistent while SDers are often quick with naming things and tend to change diagnosis a lot. (Not aimed at people who self diagnose out of necessity, I'm talking about the quirky Tumblr crowd who want 'cool' things to put in their bio which I think is what people are accusing Dan off).

Anyway, while I get people being cautious about what Dan says about his mental health I do think that recently he's been pretty real about it. But as far as the pure jokes go, like I said in a previous post I still think that it's time for him to put those into context because rn Dan does tend to glamorize things. If he does that I think these discussions would be a lot less messy.

Felix

They should drop him. In fact the entire community should drop him. But a game company is currently doing more than any of them. I don't think there's much of a personal relationship between Depz and Felix anymore anyway, so there's no loss. Fuck him. :thumb:

gohomohowell wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:58 pmI'm really not liking the atmosphere. You can't give any criticism about Dan and Phil without people getting offended in the masses and not offering to agree to disagree. I keep going between this being a good place with diverse opinions or a good place with not so much diversity. It pushes people towards other websites like Tumblr or GG and that's not cool. Sure, it's nice to have a bunch of like-minded people, but it never hurts to have someone express opinions that either make you think "wow, mind blown" or "pshhh what an idiot but let's not quote and reference twenty times in one afternoon".
Sis, I've spent like half of 2016 dragging Dan and Phil on this forum because they were annoying the shit out of me, had some spats with people, and my icons always make shit I say 10x more shady than needed, yet I'm still here expressing my opinions and most people don't hate me. Don't you also think it's a bit hypocritical to be like this when you're not exactly being open minded to other people disagreeing with you (and not even being rude about it) on this discussion. I get that this is personal to you, but you're not the only one here with those problems and everyone experiences differently.

@autumnhearth and @mm_sunny1993 Bless you both for your dedication to this noble cause. :stan:

Still think the two flat theory is a bit extra though, even for them.
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[offtopic]Damn, that's a lot of pages to go through. I kinda skimmed through it, but the self diagnosing discussion caught my eye. This probably won't be a popular opinion, but here it goes.

Personally, I don't think people should be diagnosing. Keep in mind that I'm not saying that people who self diagnose should be mocked or ridiculed because that won't solve anything. I'm just saying that just because you may have reasons for wanting to self diagnose doesn't mean you necessarily should. Shitty doctors or being too afraid to tell someone are both terrible, but that doesn't suddenly mean you can diagnose yourself. That's not to say that your feelings are invalid and should be ignored, all feelings are valid, mentally ill or not. But even doctors are told to see other doctors because we don't always know ourselves as well as we think we do.

I'm pretty sure I have ADHD, but I don't go around saying that I do have it. I can't get diagnosed, but I'm not gonna self diagnose either. I'm not saying that my experience reflects everyone else's, but I just thought that I'd add in my experience anyway.[/offtopic]
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Catallena wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:13 pm
gohomohowell wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:58 pmI'm really not liking the atmosphere. You can't give any criticism about Dan and Phil without people getting offended in the masses and not offering to agree to disagree. I keep going between this being a good place with diverse opinions or a good place with not so much diversity. It pushes people towards other websites like Tumblr or GG and that's not cool. Sure, it's nice to have a bunch of like-minded people, but it never hurts to have someone express opinions that either make you think "wow, mind blown" or "pshhh what an idiot but let's not quote and reference twenty times in one afternoon".
Sis, I've spent like half of 2016 dragging Dan and Phil on this forum because they were annoying the shit out of me, had some spats with people, and my icons always make shit I say 10x more shady than needed, yet I'm still here expressing my opinions and most people don't hate me. Don't you also think it's a bit hypocritical to be like this when you're not exactly being open minded to other people disagreeing with you (and not even being rude about it) on this discussion. I get that this is personal to you, but you're not the only one here with those problems and everyone experiences differently.
First of all: your icon makes everything you say fucking delightful, please never change - it or yourself.

Second of all: this is a point I was going to make earlier and forgot so I'll piggyback on your post to do it - it's not even as though this is an issue with two sides. There are people who think Dan doesn't really have these issues and it's all humor. There are people who think that he might have the issue but he's self-diagnosed and that's bad. There are people who think that even if he has the issues and a diagnosis, that the jokes are harmful. There are people who think that whether he's self-diagnosed or not the jokes are the opposite of harmful and find them comforting. There are people who think that it shouldn't matter how the audience takes Dan's jokes about mental health if it's a coping mechanism for him. So there's far from a 'one side vs. the other' and way more of a bunch of people with differing, independently formed, and generally pretty well thought out and expressed opinions all discussing the topic back and forth, which is... exactly what this forum is for.
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To be honest, Dan's whole "i want to die" shtick is kind of glorifying mental illness. I don't believe he's actually suicidal, and it's just another contribution to young people seeing other people that they think seem cool or are funny talking about how they "want death" and trying their hardest to mimic exactly that type of behavior. Before anyone replies saying that many of these people are truly suffering and that's a coping mechanism I just want to point out: I spend most of my time among young people, mostly ones of about the age of Dan and Phil's usual audience (maybe older side, still close though). I know these people, and I know that they're doing fine mentally because I'm at least somewhat close to them, close enough to them to know about their mental state. They mostly just regurgitate the same "I want death haha" and laugh a little, because they've scrolled through a tumblr feed just enough to know that's what the cool kids say. Like the people who started this going around probably did have some problems that they were going through, and that was most likely a good coping mechanism, but it's become recycled to the point that claiming you want to die is just another, albeit slightly edgier, way of acknowledging a minor annoyance. I do honestly believe that Dan has some mental health issues but this particular joke is pretty harmful.
I don't know, maybe this is super incoherent and veered off the topic of Dan and mental health but it's just something that bugs me.
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alittledizzy wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:10 pm First of all: your icon makes everything you say fucking delightful, please never change - it or yourself.
Thanks <3 dw I'm v dedicated to the Shady Nana branding and love looking at my own icon so it ain't going anywhere. And neither am I :twisted:
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I really wish we would stop discussing Dan's mental health. We don't know him and we have absolutely no right to judge or make assumptions and in fact, it's extremely damaging to belittle or criticise the way anyone chooses to express themselves. So why can't he just be let to express himself how he chooses and be left alone? He's one of the most self aware people I've even seen so I'm sure he isn't do it to offend anyone and piss people off? And if he's started to put a name to things it tells me he's probably had some sort of assistance in learning to do, that's just common sense. Jfc.

This discussion about the flat(s) is SO much more interesting! I think this was always going to be a theory because Phil's room is just so pokey. And if the gaming room has a bathroom then there's no WAY he'd get the box room and not the gaming room instead. It never did make sense and now even less so we've seen how nice the gaming room actually is lol.
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missemma wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:24 pm
autumnhearth wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:02 pm

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Let's start outside! Very interesting, I'm guessing rather distinct siding, some note worthy reflections that I have no idea what to make of. Why is that plant all tied up? It's friend has lots of yellow leaves. Plant abuse! This image shows the white tile floors very clearly. And note the vertical slat blinds.

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This is probably filmed on the other side of the door to the balcony, though I suppose there could be other windows with these blinds on the lower level. Damn rowing!Daniel

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I do think that this room (downstairs kitchen/dining) opens up to the balcony, note the metal handle (sliding glass door?) and possible blind to the left. He is sat at a wooden table with grey translucent chair. Which can be seen below.

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The wall has a slightly more purple tinge, but I think it's just the lighting, it's the same table and chairs, note the curved wall and white tile flooring in the bottom right corner.

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Same wall perhaps, or at least in the same general area? If this is the second kitchen, the kool-aid makes sense. Note the metal hanging light(s).

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Same wall? Same light? I love this shot.

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Empty immaculately clean fridge, as if it has never been used. Sure there are other theories: just cleaned before vacation, emptied and cleaned especially for this video for that nice grocery store feel or so they aren't judge by their fridge contents, the boys never cook and actually get take away all the time so their fringe has always been empty (contradicted below), they are moving right now, or people are moving them while their on vacation, but honestly I think second unused fridge makes the most sense in context. Unfortunately this shot is so close up, it's hard to truly know this fridge's location. But it can't be the same as the one downstairs, see below:

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Dare to compare. Oh! Unless one of these images is flipped (which based on Dan's fringe and the writing they aren't), the two fridge's appear to open on different sides! Also I'm pretty sure that is light yellow wooden flooring he is sat on, which matches up well with the screen shots below.

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I know the lighting itself is pretty yellow, but that's not a white tile floor in that kitchen, which makes perfect sense as it flows from the upstairs lounge.

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Second shot of the upstairs kitchen with clear shot of the table, chairs and windows, the center of which has a door that probably leads to a balcony, but not the one seen at the beginning of Dan's video. Note no visible window hangings.


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So this is curious. At first I assumed this white tile was the downstairs flooring, but then why are there glasses of water on the floor? Could this instead be the surface of one of their countertops?

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Close up of tiles, what is going on in the background? I don't think it makes sense as a floor. Any ideas?

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Alright "Daniel's Room". So I guess this battered name plaque from Dan's old room could be hanging on the door to the moon room... but I'm not so sure. I think it's a perfect prop for this video, to stand in for his dorm room. I guess I just don't want to imagine it as a permanent fixture on the outside of the master bedroom. My poor little shipper heart would rather picture that adorable Dan & Phil cross stitch that was hanging on the master bedroom door of the tour bus. Maybe he switched them out for the video. Maybe that door isn't even to the moon room. Maybe he likes rubbing it in Phil's face that he got the bigger room, but still let's him sleep there sometimes. Maybe I'm in denial. But worth noting are the very grey walls, the rich warm doors that can be found downstairs and what is that odd metal square with circle inside it in the bottom right hand corner. It reminds me of the handle on an airplane lavatory. UK people please help me understand!

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While we're showing doors, let's do the hallway. Three visible doors, two of which are dark, one of which is light, smaller and maybe has a handle like that odd metal thing I was asking about above. The walls are white, the floor tiles are white. It is unlikely that "Daniel's Room" is in this hall, unless there is an accent wall where the camera is.

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Is this the same door seen above? It seems to be the same color and size, though the door handle is clear here. It looks like we are looking around a large corner, but I think the camera is just really close to the door frame... or maybe not. This bathroom could be upstairs, maybe in the moon room. One thing is clear however. It is not the same bathroom seen in 'A Very Sleepless Night With Phil'.

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Different door, different handle, and note the curve tile wall.

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Hinge side of the door.

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Mirror shot with clear shot of the shower.

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Not the same tile in my opinion. So the shower vodka facial footage and the girl winking footage seem to be filmed in the same bathroom, but it's different from the one seen in 'A Sleepless Night With Phil'

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You can see the shower tile and the an additional maroon tile.

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Let's see what else. Well there is the wash/dryer footage. I do think it would make sense for a washer/dryer to be in their upstairs (main) kitchen, since the drying rack was in there during Dan's ls, but I'm not convinced that there isn't another one downstairs and that's what we're seeing here. First of all the panel covering it and next to it is white, not grey (the upstairs fridge and kitchen cabinets appear to be grey though there could be white ones on the other side) and...

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I'm guessing this shot is taken right next to it (though I guess those could be any of the white storage doors, I'm going to assume that he did the shots together and did travel upstairs and back downstairs for them). White tile flooring, probs downstairs.

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The safe/filing cabinet thingy I mentioned, in Dan's video background.

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Note glass door and the reflection of the slounge. As for as we know this is the only entrance to the dinof room.

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I don't see how this solid wooden door with Dan's room plaque could also be to this room and I don't see glass or curtain in that shot, just solid grey wall. What do you all think? Looks solid, albeit confusing to me.

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I have more screen shots but this is getting so long. I did want to include this one, lifted from a video of scenes from the Tinder Spon (rip) This appears to be an entry area upstairs (note the flooring) note also the different doors (weird hinge on wall, bottom left corner). While the light brown door looks the same as the one in Dan's moon room, the hinges are on the wrong sides.
Oh wow, I wish I had seen this post before I replied above. Thank you for all the photos, you are definitely giving me life by posting them all *bows down*.

I didn't even notice they had two dining room tables, the two flat theory (one for them and one for filming) is definitely growing stronger in my mind now. There is no chance you can convince me that they need 2 dining room tables (with at least 10 chairs between the two), two kitchens, 2 lounges and a multitude of toilets just for them two. I could easily see them getting a flat just for filming and then one private just for them so they can keep whatever they like in there. When Dan posted the text from Phil about coming upstairs for the pidegon showdown, maybe it's because he couldn't just shout down those glass stairs because Dan was filming in the other flat. Oooh, I love this theory so much haha. It seems like the rooms "downstairs" are the ones set up to look like the old flat whereas "upstairs" is much newer and modern, with their new trendy household items!
My issue with the private vs. filming flat theory is that they have done pretty shit job of sticking to the supposed assigned purposes. As people have mentioned we have seen basically nothing from the slounge since the original move-in live show. It seems like the majority of house content has been from the "private" sections. They seemed pretty adamant at the beginning of not showing much of the new place but have basically dropped that. If they did really have a whole flat (or even just a floor) dedicated to filming spaces you would think we would only be seeing that.
Have a red velvet cupcake and for fucks sake, dip some toast in your soup. Bye.
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Loving apartment discourse as always. Good, wholesome fun. I think autumnhearth is on the right track. I looked it up before and in the UK duplex means a two-floor apartment not a single building with two separate residences like it does in the US. Also, it's pretty common to have two dining tables, one in the kitchen and a larger one in the dining room or living room area. Basically, there kitchen table would operate like their breakfast bar. To me, it may lend a little credence to the idea that the flat was partially furnished though. Like maybe a good bit of the more formal upstairs?

I think it's also possible it got half renovated. If the landlord could only afford it, maybe they spent money redoing the master and the kitchen and bathrooms and one living space because it would add value and then leaving the rest for later and advertising it as like extra casual living space--toy rooms/game rooms/storage? Could have been what alerted dnp to the property in the first place.

Just some random speculation for y'all
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autumnhearth you are a goddess thank you for this wonderful contribution to the ridiculously complicated apartment discourse. Seriously tho, did deppy move here just to f with us? I'm pretty sure they did.

re: felix.
Deppy are in a difficult situation for sure, but I wouldn't expect them to ever publicly say anything about him. They haven't done anything publicly with felix for a long time (a few liveshow mentions hardly count), so while they're not showing disapproval they aren't doing anything to promote him. And their relationship with him seems a tad more complicated than 'work' buddies... from what I understand, deppy are genuine friends with PJ, and PJ is a genuine friend of felix. Maybe y'all are morally superior to me, but I have a friend-of-a-friend who I still associate with even though his vocabulary includes slurs of the homophobic variety. I asked my friend to talk to him about it, but I don't want to make my friend chose between us and I still want to hang out with her, so I simply play settlers of catan every couple weeks with them, have a bit of fun, and go home because that's life, you know? It feels like Deppy are in the same boat.

edit: that came out snarky I'm sorry I don't mean it in that way

re: "mild" agoraphobia.

agoraphobia doesn't specifically mean being unable to leave the house. For example, if someone feels severe anxiety being alone in crowds or alone in large spaces can be diagnosed as agoraphobia, especially when coupled with a panic attack, since panic attacks are heavily linked with agoraphobia. I think that's something that should be mentioned, since like most anxiety disorders there are many different ways people can experience it.
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dontpanic wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:27 pm re: "mild" agoraphobia.

agoraphobia doesn't specifically mean being unable to leave the house. For example, if someone feels severe anxiety being alone in crowds or alone in large spaces can be diagnosed as agoraphobia, especially when coupled with a panic attack, since panic attacks are heavily linked with agoraphobia. I think that's something that should be mentioned, since like most anxiety disorders there are many different ways people can experience it.
that was very important point. anxiety disorders are just different group than dd/bpd or developmental issues like autism, thus comparsion not appliable.
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very late to the discussion, as always. it must be my superpower. i watched the video as soon as i got home last night and was ready to Discuss but idb was down. sad.

loved the video! i just graduated college in may but it was still relatable and interesting even if the advice doesn't entirely apply to me. some of the stuff might be helpful for my next life move which will be finding a real life adult job and moving cities to live by myself, though. definitely one i'll be rewatching. and already have. i definitely prefer this style of video from dan and hope he keeps it up. LOVING all of the phil cameos. also really random and weird but i love when i can tell that phil (or dan when it's phil's videos) is the one filming all of these little scenes because of the wobbling camera. i just like knowing that they're often involved in each other's solo videos even though they could certainly use a tripod.

mental health: i'm not sure i want to get into this conversation but...i'm definitely on dan's side here. if he says, multiple times, that he has mild agoraphobia i don't see why we have to question that. it's already been said but you have no right to even assume that he's self-diagnosed. because unless he tells us, we have no way of knowing. the same way you have no way of knowing if he's being treated for it. take it for what it is. he even said that all of the comments about not leaving the house are a thinly veiled coping mechanism for the mild agoraphobia. he's acknowledging the stuff that some of you are so often angry about, and giving it a reason. but the reason is, in turn, making a lot of you angry. i just wish i knew what he could do to make anyone happy. i was looking forward to the possibility of a mental health video but clearly that's a terrible idea and i dread the thought of him doing one now. not just because of the ensuing conversation here but because i'd hate for him to have to read the comments by all of the people who think he's faking his mental illness(es) or using them as a punchline.
alch wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:13 pm To be honest, Dan's whole "i want to die" shtick is kind of glorifying mental illness. I don't believe he's actually suicidal, and it's just another contribution to young people seeing other people that they think seem cool or are funny talking about how they "want death" and trying their hardest to mimic exactly that type of behavior. Before anyone replies saying that many of these people are truly suffering and that's a coping mechanism I just want to point out: I spend most of my time among young people, mostly ones of about the age of Dan and Phil's usual audience (maybe older side, still close though). I know these people, and I know that they're doing fine mentally because I'm at least somewhat close to them, close enough to them to know about their mental state. They mostly just regurgitate the same "I want death haha" and laugh a little, because they've scrolled through a tumblr feed just enough to know that's what the cool kids say. Like the people who started this going around probably did have some problems that they were going through, and that was most likely a good coping mechanism, but it's become recycled to the point that claiming you want to die is just another, albeit slightly edgier, way of acknowledging a minor annoyance. I do honestly believe that Dan has some mental health issues but this particular joke is pretty harmful.
I don't know, maybe this is super incoherent and veered off the topic of Dan and mental health but it's just something that bugs me.
i...really have to disagree. maybe you don't think he's actually suicidal, experiences suicidal ideation, or even just wishes that he didn't exist but the reality is: you have no idea. i say offhand things about wanting to die all the time and people laugh but they often don't realize that i'm serious. just by hanging out with me and knowing me you wouldn't know. if someone were to go off and say that they don't think i'm really suicidal just because i'm able to leave the house and laugh and have a good time i'd be pretty pissed off. sure, maybe i'm reacting strongly to this because i'm relating it to my own experience, but i really just think it's unfair for you to make these assumptions.

as far as him having an impression on younger people, i have to say that i really don't think he has ever tried to aim his content at a younger audience. if the general age of his audience is somewhat young, ok, but i don't think he should have to alter the way he goes about expressing himself because of the audience that has chosen to watch him. but that's just my opinion. i think it's a coping mechanism for a lot of people and if it's a coping mechanism for him, that's alright with me. i don't actually think it's harming anyone. he could, of course, make a mental health video, explaining these coping mechanisms and say that you shouldn't take these things he says as something to look up to or emulate, but then we'd get 50% of the people on idb angrily typing away that they don't think he has any mental illnesses to begin with.

i apologize if this ended up coming off as really rude, i'm not trying to make any enemies on here but after reading pages and pages of this stuff i had to say something and a lot of it came out on you. the general discussion has really bothered me.

floorplan: mark me down as on board with two apartments, probably connected, one for living and one for filming and maybe even offices that we haven't seen. there's also the possibility that there are rooms upstairs that we haven't seen.

and i've got a possible explanation for the difference in flooring/paint/doors etc: it's possible that even though they're renting, these apartments are also able to be bought. i live with my dad in a condo and there are 7 other tenants in the building. even though they're all in the same building and likely all looked the same at the beginning, they most likely don't now. my dad bought his so he's able to do whatever he likes with it including paint, re-doing the kitchen, new light fixtures, i'm sure he could knock down walls if he felt like it because he owns it. i just think it's possible that it could be smilar where they live and previous tenants did a lot of remodeling and renovations to their upstairs apartment whereas the downstairs is maybe more original or just had different owners with different tastes.
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whelpkeeper wrote: Sun Sep 10, 2017 7:57 pm
Not sure how I'm feeling about his casual agoraphobia mention yet (especially as someone who is legitimately struggling with that right now) I know he doesn't mean to just play it off as though it's funny to feel anxious or panicky every time you leave your home or safe zones, but I do hope it spurs him to take a more serious perspective on it in the future in a mental health video. The thing is if he doesn't actually have mental illness problems it's kinda shitty to joke about, esp. because he's literally on vacation right now but I haven't been able to travel more than maybe 50 miles out of my home in a while.
Wow, this convo really took off! I just wanna clarify something real quick so we can all move on to something more happy and interesting.

First, I'm not saying that there's zero chance whatsoever that Dan struggles with agoraphobic tendencies- I know first hand that it's not always apparent who's struggling. No, I don't think he's obligated to divulge anything he doesn't want to either, esp. on a matter as personal as this. But considering his historical tendencies to over-exaggerate, there's a legitimate chance he's making light of an issue he doesn't personally have to confront every single day, and that's what gets me. How am I (or his very young fan base for that matter, that is impressionable) supposed to know his intent is coping with jokes when it's not apparent that's the case? Saying you have social anxiety and actually having it are two different things- and while I'm willing to believe that maybe he does in fact struggle, I don't like the idea of joking about an issue without ever completely and clearly addressing it.

I suppose the thing that makes his joke okay or not is intent and context, and not knowing how much of his anxiety is genuine and how much is played up for views makes that tricky to discern. Just mentioning the word agoraphobia twice does not an agoraphobe make- I shouldn't call myself OCD and make jokes because I use Purell 24/7, and Dan shouldn't make light of agoraphobia just because he doesn't like going outside- because from my perspective, that's the extent of his suffering (thought to be fair, he could legitimate be an agoraphobe- much like his sexuality, his mental health status is in limbo and that means it's hard to know what is real and what he might be exaggerating).

Either way, with a platform as large as his, it's hard to not see it as the glorification of mental illness- first existential crises, and now anxiety disorders as a whole. I don't want to judge someone without knowing the reality of their life, and I don't want to criticizes Dan when he might have a legitimate problem, but the way he has exaggerated and portrayed symptoms of mental illness as "relatable" in the past is just... :shrug: I dunno I'm tired and ramble-y today but maybe this makes sense to some and expands upon what I posted before (also, plz don't worry about me, meds + therapy = I'm doing okay! :D )
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Just in keeping with the theme of it being unpopular opinion day, and with the hope that other, and more subjectively interesting, discussion topics pop up in the days to come (bring on voluntary vacation selfies pls/thx and/or call out pewdiepie pls/thx), I just want to say I find the mapping out of Barbie's dream house immensely creepy. I'm not telling or expecting anybody to stop doing it, because lol yeah right, but i just feel like saying not everybody is into it (and if 'not everybody' really just means 'me', oh well). "Good wholesome fun" I guess in the sense that maybe/arguably nobody is being obviously harmed by it but while IDB likes to wear its sherlocking/'wholesome-stalking' like some kind of badge, it's probably my least favourite part about this place. I'd rather read more arguments about queerbaiting tbh. And nobody needs to care about that opinion on any level, but if there are any lurkers out there thinking 'wow what a creepy stalker haven': yeah. But as has been well-documented even just today, it's not a homogenous group of people on the exact same wavelength.
Just throwing that out there. :sparkle:
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It does seem like a lot of work to own 2 separate spaces IMO just because yes that is a smart tactic but I don't feel like they each individually produce enough content to have an entirely separate space. Their gaming channel is much more active but is an entire unit necessary? Seems to me it'd make sense if they are constantly producing new content where it's convenient to have a separate building that just has their set up with their camera equipment. But I think they have one unit, 2 floors: 1st level for filming, personal possessions/props we know of and for casual social gatherings and 2nd level for actual living.
If they have that many bedrooms too it's likely they have that many bathrooms; one could just be a half bath. Like my parents' home we have a 3 bedroom and 3.5 bathroom.
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Re: Mental Health
I...Honestly hope Dan never does a mental health vid because of just how sprawling the discussion got on this forum and how personal it is. Imagine the reaction if this discussion was happening on a grand scale and not just a fairly small forum community...I shudder for Dan.

I think the trouble ultimately with mental health and discussing it is that at the end of the day it's a very personal experience and everyone handles it a little bit different to a lot differently. I've always appreciated Dan's humor with his existential crisis and his social anxiety (which I believe he has because when I first started watching him years ago, I honestly thought I was looking at someone who really GOT the struggle I was going through with people and existing and well, a lot of things, even though he wasn't necessarily talking about it, it was the way he carried himself and HOW he mentioned it...) But I also get that for other people the style of his jokes and the way he talks about it doesn't feel so much reassuring as it does belittling or not taking it seriously enough. I've always tried to approach my own mental health issues with humor because that's what works for me, for others it can come off as in-genuine...And I don't really think there's an ideal solution to that difference in understanding because it does boil down to the individual. We all handle our problems differently, and it can be unsettling to see someone handle a same/similar problem in a totally different way...Successfully. I think it dredges up in some of us an uncertainty on whether we're REALLY this, or if we're recovering incorrectly, or etc. But the thing about mental illness is it takes different shapes in different people because it's related to the very thing that makes each of us an individual...It's not a simple thing, unfortunately for all of us. And that gets even worse due to the variations in intensity. When you look at someone with a mild case of something and at someone with a severe case it almost seems like they're different problems entirely...And if you have a severe case sometimes mild cases don't look like much of anything when you stack it against how you feel. But that doesn't negate that the other person is definitely feeling something that is hindering their life in way that's worse than your average discomfort, even if comparison it's not as bad, it's still bad. It's...Difficult.

I've never thought that Dan was glorifying mental illness so much as just doing what he needs/wants to do to handle his own...And sharing that with his audience because maybe some will relate, maybe some will be helped, and maybe others will at least be mildly amused by it. I used my issues as a humor point around friends who don't have mental health issues/have different ones than mine, because I'm comfortable with it and if it makes someone else have a little bit more happiness, all the better...But it gets complicated the wider the audience, I guess. I can see how people see that as glorifying mental illness even though I personally don't see it that way at all.

(I'm REALLY not a fan of using "but his younger audience!!" as a reason to complain about his way of talking about his mental health though. The entire "but their younger audience!!" complaint always looks to me like a thinly veiled "But what about ME??", and not about the audience at all...And Dan didn't even particularly choose that audience, he doesn't even really cater to it. Not a lot of his content seems geared towards a super young and impressionable audience, it doesn't make any sense to me to want him to contort to pleasing that when he doesn't really make things for them in the first place.
I don't personally see a lot of harm in the "haha I want death" jokes, but that's likely because when I was pretty suicidal myself my way of handling it was jokes. Still is in a lot of ways. The power of feeling like other people know what you're feeling kept me going, even if they weren't on the same degree of sincerity I was about it at the time, I found it comforting. To me the jokes help. To others I guess it's an issue. Hard to parse since everyone is processing them differently, imo.)

Re: Pdp
Dude made a huge mistake, not that anyone is particularly surprised. Dan and Phil probably won't comment on it, but I doubt they'll be hanging out with him anytime soon either.

From what I understand about pdp, he's generally regarded as a nice person in person...But there's lines, and he's crossed a lot of them. I get the entire online persona thing, but I imagine a lot of the yt community is going to dump him one way or another, including Dan and Phil, because they're seriously anti drama.
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