Dan & Phil Part 80: You're my plinth of life

[Amiaw]

Random Question Saturday: When did Martyn change his Instagram bio to say “Uncle Martyn” ?

Is it because DnP have been calling themselves “daddies” on the gaming channel because I still don’t know how I feel about that

Edit: I am sorry this is at the top of the page

[vacule]

This is the first time I'm hearing about Kevin McHale! He was one of my celebrity crushes back in 2010? 2011? when Glee was a thing. Ha, that's amazing.

I don't have any expectations for D&P coming out or not coming out - I'm just here for the ride these days - but I'm imagining them just casually flashing their matching wedding bands and letting everyone work themselves up and never offering any kind of explanation. I bet the cheeky bastards would address it in a liveshow like 'oh this old thing? boys can wear rings too'.

Just a bit of fantasy. Whatever happens in real life will probably be either 10 times less interesting, or 10 times more.

[sapienveneficus]

I agree with too many things to quote, but - any former Glee fans around? I think they're going the Kevin McHale route, and I also think that is exactly why they don't want any definite soundbites about their sexuality (and I am going to go the sexuality/relationship as a combined topic route with this, because I'm me and that should surprise no one). He spent years being very open about not being straight, attending lgbtq events, liking non-straight stuff on twitter, flailing over m/m ships on shows, posting cute pictures of his boyfriend and them together. The only thing he didn't do was say, "I'm gay. This is my boyfriend." because he wanted people to just know without him saying it, and he thought they did.

When Kevin did eventually use the word gay re: himself it was in a purely joke setting (a tweet about something Ariana Grande did being gayer than he is) and still because he used That Word the media did their normal freakout wave of headlines and quotes. I feel like his response is exactly what Dan and Phil would say in that situation:

“I was freaking out. I was like, something happened that I don’t know about. And then I saw that it was the tweet. People were like, ‘Oh, you just came out.’ I was like, did I?” McHale explained that the people following him closely on social media have known. “I think there was zero surprise,” he said. (x)

His whole deal just proved how hard our society pulls to not declaratively state anything besides the ever-present assumed heterosexual normativity even when the person in question is doing nothing to hide things. And that's exactly why the 'coming out' theories don't ring true to me; I think it's hard for me to imagine Dan and Phil inviting that shitstorm of attention - not from within their fandom but from outside of it. But I end up agreeing with a lot of both side of this because I still fully think their goal is to live out (to whatever extent is comfortable for them at any given moment - which yeah, can change in both ways depending on a lot of factors... who they're talking to, how public it is, their mood that day) without an official Coming Out.

As a former Glee fan and a Deaf West Spring Awakening fan (my icon is a bit of a giveaway) I'm pretty familiar with Kevin's recent (past few years) journey. I do see parallels between his path, and the path DnP might be taking. I do think, though, that there is power in declaration. For all Kevin's joke surprise, I believe he knew exactly what he was doing when he wrote that silly tweet. You can't walk back a declarative statement; even one made in jest. And while he may have been living out, he hadn't been doing so as a public figure (certainly not while he was on Glee).

To bring things back to DnP, I do think they're continuing to take steps to live more openly. I think, at some point, one of them (or both, who knows?) will say or do something definitive. Something that cannot be walked back or explained away. Like Kevin, I think this will be a very deliberate decision. One they'll make knowing full well that there will be a spike in outside media interest and that it could impact their relationship with parts of their audience. I suppose time will tell.

[alittledizzy]

I agree with too many things to quote, but - any former Glee fans around? I think they're going the Kevin McHale route, and I also think that is exactly why they don't want any definite soundbites about their sexuality (and I am going to go the sexuality/relationship as a combined topic route with this, because I'm me and that should surprise no one). He spent years being very open about not being straight, attending lgbtq events, liking non-straight stuff on twitter, flailing over m/m ships on shows, posting cute pictures of his boyfriend and them together. The only thing he didn't do was say, "I'm gay. This is my boyfriend." because he wanted people to just know without him saying it, and he thought they did.

When Kevin did eventually use the word gay re: himself it was in a purely joke setting (a tweet about something Ariana Grande did being gayer than he is) and still because he used That Word the media did their normal freakout wave of headlines and quotes. I feel like his response is exactly what Dan and Phil would say in that situation:

“I was freaking out. I was like, something happened that I don’t know about. And then I saw that it was the tweet. People were like, ‘Oh, you just came out.’ I was like, did I?” McHale explained that the people following him closely on social media have known. “I think there was zero surprise,” he said. (x)

His whole deal just proved how hard our society pulls to not declaratively state anything besides the ever-present assumed heterosexual normativity even when the person in question is doing nothing to hide things. And that's exactly why the 'coming out' theories don't ring true to me; I think it's hard for me to imagine Dan and Phil inviting that shitstorm of attention - not from within their fandom but from outside of it. But I end up agreeing with a lot of both side of this because I still fully think their goal is to live out (to whatever extent is comfortable for them at any given moment - which yeah, can change in both ways depending on a lot of factors... who they're talking to, how public it is, their mood that day) without an official Coming Out.

As a former Glee fan and a Deaf West Spring Awakening fan (my icon is a bit of a giveaway) I'm pretty familiar with Kevin's recent (past few years) journey. I do see parallels between his path, and the path DnP might be taking. I do think, though, that there is power in declaration. For all Kevin's joke surprise, I believe he knew exactly what he was doing when he wrote that silly tweet. You can't walk back a declarative statement; even one made in jest. And while he may have been living out, he hadn't been doing so as a public figure (certainly not while he was on Glee).

To bring things back to DnP, I do think they're continuing to take steps to live more openly. I think, at some point, one of them (or both, who knows?) will say or do something definitive. Something that cannot be walked back or explained away. Like Kevin, I think this will be a very deliberate decision. One they'll make knowing full well that there will be a spike in outside media interest and that it could impact their relationship with parts of their audience. I suppose time will tell.

No, Kevin definitely wasn't being out during Glee he's said before it's because he had a partner that didn't want to be out. But during the post-Glee era I really feel like there was no question about it. I believe that a picture holding hands with his boyfriend shouldn't be less powerful than a "that's gayer than me" joke so I think from a personal standpoint I end up resenting that actions can't just stand for themselves sometimes. I don't actually believe he meant for that joke to cause the media backlash, I think it was a natural progression of the method of being more and more obvious that he set in motion once Glee was over. Which is similar to what I think Dan and Phil are doing; just being more and more open.

But I agree that at some point either Dan or Phil or them together will say something definitive. I think that's unavoidable in any situation where so many people are hanging on your every word just waiting for something concrete they can latch onto to solve the mystery. I'm less convinced it will necessarily be on purpose, but it will at least be part of a calculated risk.

[thestigdrivesamini]

Family walk AND Phil in a beanie?!?

Bless the IOM

[kavat]

You guys have been so active these past few days that I haven't been able to catch up until now. It's been so interesting to read all of your thoughts though and I don't really have anything new to say really that hasn't already been said. In short: I'm going to let myself mourn pinof and dapg over christmas and then be excited for whatever they will bring us in 2019.

My dvd finally arrived the other day and I got to listen to the commentary. I'm also fully on team podcast. They seemed so calm and relaxed in that commentary compared to any video or live show, it's like they could turn off their camera personalities and just be them, having a chill chat. Though I do feel like it would have to be a podcast about something, I doubt they would do a "here's what we've been up to this week" type thing (like Psycho babble or This might get weird) as that's what they have live shows for, which they already earn money from. I don't really know what the topic would be though. Can I request a candle podcast?

Love a good ocean side walk

ETA Bless Cornelia for this

[Ataraxia25]

SO CUTE. IM DEAD.

[rizzo]

ugh i love when they go on a sea-side walks!!! it's always so stupid cute!

eta: i just noticed dan’s wearing the hat aunt roz gave him and i’m emosshhhhh

[Catallena]

Dan and Phil doing Instastories, yet in the end Cornelia is still the one who gives us the good stuff. I'm so soft

[fizzymcguire]

I'd say this belief that D&P are going to come out is a part of some people thinking that D&P are always building up to something big and that every step they make is gonna be bigger and better than the previous one. (Kinda like how some people felt disappointed after the pumpkin carving video because it didn't top the mukbang video). And yes, they're more comfortable with us and have made lots of progress over the years regarding many different things but I think you shouldn't get too carried away with your theories/assumptions and remember that they're real people who make their own decisions and not characters in some romantic story that you've build up in your head. Slow down and don't constantly put expectations on D&P because you're probably just going to end being disappointed when they can't live up to them.

a friend of mine said to me yesterday "people expect like, a series finale of dan and phil and they’re always going to be disappointed because they’re real fucking people" and i think thats very real.

I agree with too many things to quote, but - any former Glee fans around? I think they're going the Kevin McHale route, and I also think that is exactly why they don't want any definite soundbites about their sexuality (and I am going to go the sexuality/relationship as a combined topic route with this, because I'm me and that should surprise no one). He spent years being very open about not being straight, attending lgbtq events, liking non-straight stuff on twitter, flailing over m/m ships on shows, posting cute pictures of his boyfriend and them together. The only thing he didn't do was say, "I'm gay. This is my boyfriend." because he wanted people to just know without him saying it, and he thought they did.

When Kevin did eventually use the word gay re: himself it was in a purely joke setting (a tweet about something Ariana Grande did being gayer than he is) and still because he used That Word the media did their normal freakout wave of headlines and quotes. I feel like his response is exactly what Dan and Phil would say in that situation:

“I was freaking out. I was like, something happened that I don’t know about. And then I saw that it was the tweet. People were like, ‘Oh, you just came out.’ I was like, did I?” McHale explained that the people following him closely on social media have known. “I think there was zero surprise,” he said. (x)

His whole deal just proved how hard our society pulls to not declaratively state anything besides the ever-present assumed heterosexual normativity even when the person in question is doing nothing to hide things. And that's exactly why the 'coming out' theories don't ring true to me; I think it's hard for me to imagine Dan and Phil inviting that shitstorm of attention - not from within their fandom but from outside of it. But I end up agreeing with a lot of both side of this because I still fully think their goal is to live out (to whatever extent is comfortable for them at any given moment - which yeah, can change in both ways depending on a lot of factors... who they're talking to, how public it is, their mood that day) without an official Coming Out.

As a former Glee fan and a Deaf West Spring Awakening fan (my icon is a bit of a giveaway) I'm pretty familiar with Kevin's recent (past few years) journey. I do see parallels between his path, and the path DnP might be taking. I do think, though, that there is power in declaration. For all Kevin's joke surprise, I believe he knew exactly what he was doing when he wrote that silly tweet. You can't walk back a declarative statement; even one made in jest. And while he may have been living out, he hadn't been doing so as a public figure (certainly not while he was on Glee).

To bring things back to DnP, I do think they're continuing to take steps to live more openly. I think, at some point, one of them (or both, who knows?) will say or do something definitive. Something that cannot be walked back or explained away. Like Kevin, I think this will be a very deliberate decision. One they'll make knowing full well that there will be a spike in outside media interest and that it could impact their relationship with parts of their audience. I suppose time will tell.

No, Kevin definitely wasn't being out during Glee he's said before it's because he had a partner that didn't want to be out. But during the post-Glee era I really feel like there was no question about it. I believe that a picture holding hands with his boyfriend shouldn't be less powerful than a "that's gayer than me" joke so I think from a personal standpoint I end up resenting that actions can't just stand for themselves sometimes. I don't actually believe he meant for that joke to cause the media backlash, I think it was a natural progression of the method of being more and more obvious that he set in motion once Glee was over. Which is similar to what I think Dan and Phil are doing; just being more and more open.

But I agree that at some point either Dan or Phil or them together will say something definitive. I think that's unavoidable in any situation where so many people are hanging on your every word just waiting for something concrete they can latch onto to solve the mystery. I'm less convinced it will necessarily be on purpose, but it will at least be part of a calculated risk.

i would say on the kevin thing - he was never really the focus of the fandoms attention and wasn't prone to the same mania people like chris and darren were because a) his character wasn't a fan favorite despite being on the show from the start and b) wasn't associated with a big ship. nobody was really paying attention to what he was doing in the same way they were some of the others and the way we watch dan and phil. i had actually known for sure about kevin really early on (like 2012) just by nature of having mutual friends and it was kinda what we'd expect about any closeted celebrity, his boyfriend came to dinner parties and events and whatnot it was just not talked about in any public capacity for the reasons mandy cited.

i do think him saying "yeah you were right i'm gay heres a photo" is very different from dan and phil potentially doing the same thing again because of the mania it inspires. dan and phil making a similar announcement wouldn't have the same reaction in any respects except maybe a few ex-phannies going "good for them dot gif"

[Puffy]

I guess my take on it is that the the overwhelming narrative I’m seeing at the moment is that people would like dan and Phil to be more comfortable being themselves. I often think about how The Vday video was them being publicly outed, twice —once with the original YT leak in 2011 and then again on tumblr in 2012. I’ve been rewatching old videos and the change in them is remarkable. I would love for it to be a case that they could both live their truth in whatever way is meaningful and good for them. I definitely don’t think we’d ever get a “me and Phil are together” video but I do expect at some point dan will drop some more loaves of bread on sexuality and perhaps how labels are unnecessary for some people, as I feel that is the stance he would take on it. All the recent videos, between Devon and Heartthrob have just shown how far Phil has come and how gentle the acknowledgements are they they’re ok with people interpreting what we are likely to interpret from those videos.

Similarly I TOTALLY can understand LGBT+ fans being worried that this is just a collective mob trying to force d&p into coming out which is a gross sentiment but I feel like that gross sentiment is definitely the minority. I mean hell, I’m not out to most people and don’t even know where to begin labelling it so I can understand that if it’s not necessary that it’s not necessary. I just think it is coming, it is inevitable, and it might never be a definite statement but something unmistakeable so even the most ardent of of antis couldn’t say “well yeah but NO” about it.

Edit to add that I loved @ratlad’s idea of them “living out” which is what it should be for anyone!

[alittledizzy]

i do think him saying "yeah you were right i'm gay heres a photo" is very different from dan and phil potentially doing the same thing again because of the mania it inspires. dan and phil making a similar announcement wouldn't have the same reaction in any respects except maybe a few ex-phannies going "good for them dot gif"

I am not sure if you mean the reaction from Dan and Phil themselves or outside reaction but I actually think if Dan and Phil came out that it would cause a similar media response. I think outlets would cover two big youtubers being definitely out - and even if mainstream media didn't respond the same the inter-youtube community would. Similarly to how you said you knew Kevin was gay since 2012, people in the youtube community and the fanbase primarily understand the situation with Dan and Phil. But society makes a big deal about official labels and there would be a big deal made around theirs. The fact that I think they wouldn't want that is why I don't foresee any kind of official statement culmination as like a narrative conclusion.

[fizzymcguire]

i do think him saying "yeah you were right i'm gay heres a photo" is very different from dan and phil potentially doing the same thing again because of the mania it inspires. dan and phil making a similar announcement wouldn't have the same reaction in any respects except maybe a few ex-phannies going "good for them dot gif"

I am not sure if you mean the reaction from Dan and Phil themselves or outside reaction but I actually think if Dan and Phil came out that it would cause a similar media response. I think outlets would cover two big youtubers being definitely out - and even if mainstream media didn't respond the same the inter-youtube community would. Similarly to how you said you knew Kevin was gay since 2012, people in the youtube community and the fanbase primarily understand the situation with Dan and Phil. But society makes a big deal about official labels and there would be a big deal made around theirs. The fact that I think they wouldn't want that is why I don't foresee any kind of official statement culmination as like a narrative conclusion.

sorry should've clarified - I absolutely think mainstream media would cover it I just feel like the coverage would be different again because of said mania. I can see huffpo think pieces about the ethicacy of withholding information from your audience citing "heartbroken teenage girls" though I do 100% agree with everything else you mentioned for sure.

[parallel]

Not only are they out in my opinion, but I don't really think they've ever fully been in. Even during the reign of No Homo Howell I don't ever recall him saying he was straight, he was just emphasizing (a lot) that he wasn't gay (true) and that he wasn't with Phil (sure JDan).

I swear there's a 2012 clip from a liveshow where Dan comments on a guy while saying "and I don't even swing that way"? Even if he never explicitly said it, it was heavily implied that he wanted to convey that he was straight (or "straight") from how he acted.

To be honest, I don't like the sentiment I sometimes see that, if you don't openly share your sexual orientation (whether that's just openly talking about boys/girls or actively stating "I'm gay/bi/pan/etc"), you're not free or whatever. If they did want to publicly maintain that they're 100% straight then there's nothing wrong with that, as long as it's what they want to do. If they want to be more open then they should be given a safe environment to do that in and I totally support that, but what I support most is them doing what they want to do and what makes them most comfortable.

[missemma]

SO CUTE. IM DEAD.

This gives me all the feels!

although why is Dan wearing no coat and just his thermal shirt

[autumnhearth]

Enjoying the conversation. I don’t have strong feelings, but I also feel a coming out is neither needed nor likely. The only specific thing that came to mind was them saying a year or two ago that they would like to go to pride one day/year. I forget if it was a liveshow or a tweet. They definitely said we’re with you in spirit. Which yeah, I know you don’t have to be queer to go to pride, nor would it absolutely mean that that they are a couple if they went together, but that would be a pretty big implication.

I recall him saying “if I ever decide to bat for that camp” in response to someone in the chat saying their brother thought he was hot. Also the dreaded “just rohypnol me” statement. So no, there was definitely a time that Dan was implying he would not be in a sexual or romantic relationship with a guy, currently, or of his own free will. Thank goodness those days are long gone.

[flarequake]

Dan being the one not to wrap up in a coat is funny, it's a stereotypical joke of being a northern bloke to be too hard and tough to wear a coat, that southerners are soft and there are the actual northerners including Cornelia, originally from further north, all wrapped up properly (well, assuming so anyway since she's not in the photo, but she does have sense). I guess that thermal shirt really does its job?

[lesterchuu]

SO CUTE. IM DEAD.

This gives me all the feels!

although why is Dan wearing no coat and just his thermal shirt

theres two possibilities:

1) he gave his to phil cz hes a good boy"friend"

or

2) phil IS his coat



wait i just realized the second option can sound either domestic or sinister...

[itasca00]

Okay, Day 2 of Dilmas. I got to watch this one in an airport, which is why this post is a day late. Unlike some other videos of The Sims, I was never bored watching this video, but I don’t think it was anything exceptional. Still, I feel like I have to try to savor every moment! Here are my highlights:

• [0:00] Yet again, Dan’s starting the video off right with some cute alien noises.
• [1:05] This was a stretch, Phil.

  D: Look at that. It’s just the two grey parents--
  P: Two grey parents--
  D: --a pink dog, and a--
  P: --and a--
  D: --an angsty alien teen.
  P: --big D. He’s got bigger.
  D: *grimaces* D for delete.

• [1:59] Dan and Phil say that the thing that immediately happens after an older sibling moves out is the younger sibling taking over the older sibling’s bigger room. I was wondering if this applied to Dan and Phil’s lives, then Phil says he “bagsied” the bigger room when he was a child, implying that there was no need for him to change rooms when Martyn moved out.
• [2:55] Dil starts destroying one of the snowpals. This is Phil’s observation:

  P: This is brutal! Straight in the balls!

• [5:09] This back-and-forth perplexes me.

  D: What does shoveling snow mean?
  P: I don’t know.
  D: Isn’t that, like, getting it out of your driveway?

• [5:40] What are you implying, Dan?

  P: I think that should be Dalien’s bed now.
  D: A teenager with a single bed?
  P: Yeah.
  D: If you’re gonna be a teenager with a single bed, it better be called “The Eminence”--
  P: It will be.
  D: --have a five star rating, and look like a space pod.

• [6:33] Dan rolls his eyes. I like it.
• [7:43] Interesting insight into Dan’s younger self:

  P: Any spiderwebs is totally emo.
  D: Yes, exact--So green spiderwebs.
  P: Yes!
  D: There we go. Yes!
  P: Amazing!
  D: That’s like, “I’m 14, and this is style!” Okay. No offense. I’m just talking about myself.

• [9:41] Dan imitates Nuki in the most attractive way possible.
• [9:59] Sometimes I wonder if Dan actually still does this.

  P: Oh, he’s glowing with blue.
  D: Same, honestly. Wow.
  P: He needs to do a face-down lie on the floor like you, Dan.

• [10:15] “Choke us to death.” Right.

  D: And oh, my God! Pause!
  P: What?
  D: People are gonna choke us to death.
  P: Why?
  D: How long has this video been? It’s been, like, several minutes so far. HIs mum sent us a frickin’ letter in the--I am so sorry we forgot about that. Right.

• [10:59] Dan repositions himself in his chair and rubs shoulders with Phil in the process.
• [11:32] Dan and Phil both stick their tongues out. It’s very cute.
• [16:00] Dan and Phil both agree that there should be an alien of each color in their club.
• [16:09] Black hair and glasses...yep, looks like Phil!

  D: Which of these three strange adult men looks the least creepy?
  P: I think Derrick looks the friendliest.
  D: He’s got gla--He looks like you!
  P: I know! That’s why.
  D: That’s literally you.

• [16:35] Dan wants us all to know that Phil would love to be probed by an alien.

  D: We have to all be aliens and WooHoo.
  P: You can make a s--alien sex club?
  D: Oh, it’s one of those clubs. You can make a Woo--And unlike grilled cheese, Phil would join that.

• [17:28] Again, I can’t help but wonder if this applied to Dan and Phil’s real lives at some point.

  D: We hate viewing art ‘cause that’s what my lame older brother does.

• [18:34] Thank you, Dan! I wish my friends knew this cold, hard, objective fact.

  D: Or the Discotheque Pan Europa.
  P: Maybe.
  D: No, you can’t have a conversation in a club.

• [19:18] Dan and Phil read out some club handshake options. While they’re doing so, they also imitate some of them. It is excellent content.
• [22:00] Dalien and Derrick do a secret alien handshake. Afterward, Dan and Phil imitate a portion of it by touching fingers. It is, once again, excellent content.
• [22:44] Phil notices an option to “Scare With Probe,” and Dan is upset by this option. At [22:57], we get to see Dan and Phil’s reaction to “Scare With Probe” in action:

  P: Oh!
  D: Oh, my God! I just got whisked. Oh, d--Oh--Oh, my--Du--d--d--It’s a duck. Really frickin’ Sims?
  P: I did not know that was a thing.
  D: Is that was they did--Is that how Dil got pregnant?
  P: Stuck--
  D: Is that how Dalien got made?
  P: Got the duck straight in there.
  D: Frickin’--Wow, he got quacked in the crack.

• [23:48] Life advice from Dan:

  P: He’s going as an alien?
  D: Look.
  P: Is that an issue?
  D: He’s living his truth. You cannot introduce yourself t--to people as somebody you’re not. You have to show them who you are--
  P: Okay.
  D: --and then if they love you, then that’s how it works.
  P: Sure.

• [24:33] Interesting trivia about Dan and Phil:

  P: Would you have the power to read people’s minds if you could have it?
  D: Um, no.
  P: I think it’s very dangerous.
  D: I--I don’t wanna know what kind of creepy crap you’re all imagining.

• [28:13] Dan and Phil play with Drago:

  P: I wonder if he’ll open his eyes.
  D: If that happened, I would literally just poo on you right now.

• [28:22] Drago opens his eyes. Dan is fully jumpscared. This moment was a wonderful early Christmas present.
• There is only one set of social media links this time, which is a relief. Individual merch links point to shop.danielhowell.com and amazingphilshop.com. I find this questionable while the combined shop is in operation, but I won’t complain.

[Ataraxia25]

actual cutie

[Ablissa]

Petition for a cute selfie like that of them both.

[Ataraxia25]

Petition for a cute selfie like that of them both.

I have to say, when I got the notification, I was like : "Brace yourself, it's gonna be a joint selfie, you may die."

But no...

[Ablissa]

They've been spotted by fans:

[obsessivelymoody]

I wasn't a big fan of the Dalien episode, so I'm not sure it would have deserved its own post, but I'm very ready for more Devan. On a different note, I'm really dying over all the IoM cuteness. They're just so fucking lovely. Because I'm the kind of person who likes the plan and is nosy, and likes to know basically everything, I'm a bit tense about what they're doing with the hiatus and where exactly it'll go, I'm just a ball of emotions about everything. They're basically giving me some kind of emotional whiplash. I can't believe I'm just gonna keep waking up to this stuff for the next couple days, like I swear they're out to get me. I'm just permanently

[lilabet]

They've been spotted by fans:

Hmmmm even if D&P offered and approached I'd be hesitant to take a picture when they're on Christmas break. Even posting it seems wrong why would you not post it after Christmas? Maybe I'm just in a weird mood and being judgemental but it just seems like this time of year more than any other they are off the clock.