Dan & Phil Part 82: now onto the future

[Grey]

A little dizzy, it’s interesting to think of it like that: like being a fan of a book or something. You read it and then it’s done but you still like it. Alright I can get behind that. That’s just not how I typically view dan and phil but I suppose I should start. I’m sorry for being a downer (also assume you probably weren’t speaking just to me but I’m responding to my part of it).

[fancybum]

A little dizzy, it’s interesting to think of it like that: like being a fan of a book or something. You read it and then it’s done but you still like it. Alright I can get behind that. That’s just not how I typically view dan and phil but I suppose I should start. I’m sorry for being a downer (also assume you probably weren’t speaking just to me but I’m responding to my part of it).

You weren’t being a downer and you shouldn’t have to apologize for stating your opinion (I mean obviously you can if you want to lol, but being optimistic isn’t somehow more valid than realism or pessimism).

I appreciate the intent of reassuring people, but we’re all working with the same information, so someone going ‘it’s not that bad’ when it feels that bad to you when you know as much as they do just seems kind of null to me. Dan and Phil aren’t a completed series (or if they are, they haven’t bothered saying it yet), so getting restless and having expectations in line with the medium they’re in and their past (of a sort) reliability is, imo, fine and rational.

All that to say: I’m not interested in fic so I’m super bored and relate to people who haven’t been watching old vids because they make me sad lol.

(No offense to those being optimistic/reassuring because that’s very nice of you and I’m sure it helps some people, so yay, but sometimes people just feel shitty and that’s really all there is to it)

[alittledizzy]

(No offense to those being optimistic/reassuring because that’s very nice of you and I’m sure it helps some people, so yay, but sometimes people just feel shitty and that’s really all there is to it)

You're right and that's definitely why I suggested people skip part of my post (tbh, could have just said my whole post) if they do just feel shitty. But it is definitely a domino effect for some people where they don't feel bad until they sign in and see everyone feeling bad. So I will probably keep trying to be the voice piping up so that there's not just an entire page of people lamenting that they feel bad, just so that doesn't seem like the only option.

[knq]

I wrote out this long post about traditional fandoms and how they operate in a hiatus period vs new media fandoms where the expectation is nonstop content with an appropriate level of intimacy and lack of fourth wall, andddddd then I deleted it because I'm not really sure that's what people even wanna talk about right now.

In fact, I don't know what people want to talk about, besides group therapy sessions over feeling bad about Dan and Phil. But if anyone out there is looking for reassurance (and if you're not, it's fine, just skip the rest of this paragraph): it's not been that long. It hasn't even been two full months since the last video. It has been about one month of actual DAPG hiatus started. Dan... okay, Dan's gonna do his Dan thing, and who knows what to expect from him when. But this is not as bleak as the emotional overtone would have you believe.

And there is a lot of stuff to do in fandom if you're someone who enjoys fandom for the community and not just as a reactive center for the most recently posted piece of content. I know different people are here for different reasons, and if you really are only interested in fandom when it's the immediate aftermath of something posted, cool. That must suck right now. But for anyone else: now's the time to read the fuck out of some fic, there's a lot being posted! Or write some! Start talking to new people! Learn how to gif! Only came into the fandom in recent years? Dig into the old stuff, write some comparative essays on Dan and Phil then and now. We have a whole FAQs section of posts. Go look through the drug deal, watch some of the old deleted things.

Specifically speaking to this forum, nothing Dan and Phil is off topic here. Bring up stuff that's years old. Bring up old conversations you remember being interesting that you didn't get to participate in before, if you want. Right now is the perfect time for that. If you're someone that's been around for years, discuss how you think the fandom has changed, that'd be really interesting. Or just wild times you remember that newer phandom members might not have been here for. Fandom doesn't stop because there isn't a video unless we make it into a self-fulfilling prophecy and decide it has to be that way, that there's nothing interesting without Dan and Phil providing it.

It's funny that what you've said about new vs. old fandoms is pretty similar to what Dan's said about not loving the YouTube environment of constant creation without breaks. Fandom sustaining itself in the time between television shows, seasons, books, albums, or whatever the content is, was kind of the point of the fandoms. YouTube (and probably RPF fandoms generally) are different and strange.

I saw on tumblr that jacksepticeye did a charity livestream today, which Phil has avoided posting/streaming during before, so if he wasn't decided on whether to post today that probably tipped him towards no. I'm looking forward to whatever this phone-and-dates video will be!

[Ablissa]

I think I fall somewhere in the middle of these perspectives.
I don't feel that bad, and I'm far from catastrophizing (I highly recommend skipping twitter and tumblr if you're prone to believing other people's opinions). I do think they will be back, and joint content will be back. They might be moving right now, or they're just gathering their bearings. They might have a new project up their sleeves. They might want to focus on solo brands more so than their joint one, but they won't abandon it entirely.

But I can't say it's loaaads of fun to be in this fandom right now either. I'm happy to have IDB and fics, but other than that, there is nothing new for us to really care about. We're lucky to get regular Phil content.

I've been in all sorts of fandoms for... soon 20 years, and I know how it is to be in a slow fandom where not much ever happens. Hell, most of my previous and current fandoms are exactly like that - but in those fandoms, I'm used to that.
My experience in the phandom was always different. There'd always be something new, or an idea of why there is nothing new, like tour droughts. We'd still get m&g pics during tour, and during the last one we had their insta stories.

Now we're left with very little for who knows how long. And yes, I know that they will come back, but that doesn't change the fact that right now, I'm focusing a bit on fics, this forum, and my other fandoms without rewatching dnp a lot. It's nice in a way, since I've been hyperfocused on dnp for a long time, but I don't think that this is the kind of fandom experience most mainstream youtubers should aim for. Then again, we have to remember that dnp have possibly the most demanding fanbase in all of youtube.

To summarize: I'm not upset. They'll be back and we can all take a break and enjoy the rest of the fandom. But I do wish we knew WHEN they will return, and in what capacity.

[obsessivelymoody]

I'm gonna be honest, I've been a little quiet about my opinions on the hiatus, mostly to keep neutral, but also because I really don't want to invalidate anyone's feelings. So I do want to say that what everyone is feeling is valid and totally okay to express, I'm finding the constant negativity here and on tumblr and twitter to be kind of stressing me out. If that offends you, feel free to skip this. Or feel free to skip this entirely idc.

Maybe the answer is for me to take a break but honestly? I did that before. The hivemind was almost insufferable to me during the Great American TATINOF Drought of 2016, so I dropped out. I stopped reading fic, I stopped interacting with the phandom on tumblr and twitter, and I stuck to reading two blogs regularly to get the ~latest scoop~ on deppy. It wasn't fun. I never lost any amount of interest in dnp, in fact my interest has been on a steady incline since I found them in 2014 (with a few bumps and dips ofc), but finding idb in 2017 and finding myself wanting to read and write fic again reminded me why I love fandom. Again, I'm not trying to say what I'm feeling is what everyone should be feeling; everyone's feelings are valid and everyone can express them if they want to.

Maybe I'm just hooked on what fandom means to me as someone who participated and lurked in it before social media came along and fractured the community 'hub' feeling that came with most fandoms on platforms like livejournal or forums like this. Fandom is nothing without fan works. Without people writing fic, making art, in some cases--like yt or tv fandoms--making gifs, fandoms will not thrive on canon alone. I'm not in a fandom unless I'm at least reading fic or actively participating in fan works (but that's just me). There are some fandoms that haven't had new content in decades but they still have a thriving, active fanbase because fans are creating. I've found participating in the transformative parts of fandom to be what helps keep me interested and invested when I'm waiting for something new, whether that be consuming it or creating it. If anyone has thought about writing fic, posting art, learning how to gif, now is such a great time to do it if you're bored! And if you don't want to but want new content, consuming it is such a wonderful thing too. Fan creators are the backbone of fandoms with thriving longevity. I'm not pulling that out of my ass either, it's been stated in fandom studies, and it's pretty easy to observe. And having dropped out of all of that for over a year, I didn't feel like I was ~in~ the phandom. I felt very isolated. That was my own doing, of course, but going from being in the thick of it to being alone to jumping back in with both feet and even more than the first time, there is such a stark difference in my feelings and reflections of myself as a member of a fandom in all of those versions of me and the phandom. So I recommend taking a gander to fan works if you're bored or if you've been thinking about it. I know it's not for everyone, I know some people think RPF and certain types of art have no business being in a fandom for real people (which I could write a whole other essay about), but giving it a try doesn't hurt. And it's the key to having a lasting, living fandom.

Discussion is important too. I don't want to dismiss that in light of fan works. We have a lot of canon in this fandom, and there's a lot we can talk about from that. I get that it's sad, I watched the Dan vs Phil finale last night and I felt that sadness over missing them being silly on the gaming channel, but there's still stuff we can talk about. Meta, comparisons, picking apart phrasing (within...reason and common sense *cough*) etc., there's a lot we can talk about. It can be intensely deep here, or not even. It doesn't entirely matter. And again, I'm not trying to dismiss anyone's feelings. I just want to say that there's still stuff we can do besides look at our watches and then back at Dan and Phil. There's loads of stuff, if you want it and are up for it, for different kinds of people. We all got far too used to the amount of content we got last year. They have never produced so much in a year, and I'm gonna be honest, they never will again. I think joint content will be back. I think Dan will be back. I think it's hard waiting right now because of how much we got last year, but it's only been about a month. It's hard, I get it, and it's going to make people fed up, and people are fed up, and that's okay, but there are things we can do as a fandom, maybe to just take the edge off the longing, maybe to completely distract, or maybe to just do in the meantime. Again, this is just my perspective and opinion. Take it with a grain of salt, by all means, but I figured it might be worth saying for anyone who might have needed it.

[jestbee]

I think moody makes an excellent point. And, if I'm being honest, the negativity in all of our fandom spaces is starting to get to me too.

I'm thankful for the fic writing community because without it I probably wouldn't still be hanging around in the face of all the fear and upset to be honest. It isn't what I'm here for, it's fandom, it's supposed to be fun and I choose to focus on the fun parts.

This is just me though, and I know people have differing opinions and feel different ways, I just wanted to share my opinion on this discussion.

[lefthandedism]

Good for you, Phil!

[Phantasy]

Good for you, Phil!

Oh well, no cute sleeping pic...but, happy to see they made it to at least see British National Treasure Olivia Colman win...

[knq]

100% Phil stayed awake so Dan wouldn't be pressured to post sleeping photos of him.

[plinthofmylife]

100% Phil stayed awake so Dan wouldn't be pressured to post sleeping photos of him.

I thought the same thing, lol.

[kavat]

It's very interesting hearing everyone's thoughts on the hiatus and your feelings about it. I think a big part that makes people feel a bit restless is that there's no standard for a YouTube hiatus. If youre a fan of a tvshow or a book series or something, you go into it knowing that there is a finite amount of content to consume right now, and then the season/book will end.

The problem with youtube (and i think this is what dan was talking about too) is that there are no cycles, so seasons. You're expected to put out constant content, and when you do that becomes what the audience expect as well. Right now we are in recovery from a years long high of predictable joint content, and not knowing a real reason or time plan makes it even worse. Add to the mix that a lot of people still are a bit on the fence about rpf fanworks and it turns ugly.

But! I love fanworks! Many kudos to everyone putting their time and energy into it because we have some really wonderful artists and writers here!

[Ataraxia25]

@obsessivelymoody your post was amazing! I loved it! Brillant!

[liola]

It's been two months from the last joint/gaming video, a month and a half since they featured the other person in an IG story (and generally showed Dan's face besides that running selfie that I think we hallucinated at this point). Phil is actually getting back into the swing of interacting, but Dan.. I just fear their "I thought it was obvious" strategy. And I also wonder what the more casual fans, who watch the videos and follow them casually on social media are thinking, because if I was them I'd just believe they've moved apart. We know it's not the case, obviously, but I do wonder if that's just the idea they want to put out.

To be clear, I'm loving the fandom as a community of fans, i'm loving the creativity and the interactions and the discussions.

But that doesn't mean I'm not still annoyed and frustrated at them. It's true, if this was a book or a tv shows this hiatus would be expected. But they're not. We were not warned that the hiatus of the gaming channel would mean this disconnection from them as people. We were not warned that hearing from Dan outside of the random weekly tweet would become the new norm. And we sure as fuck were not warned that any interaction between them would go on hiatus along the gaming channel. None of that was announced, or expected, and the transition into this new normal is hard and that's fine. Pretending that it's not affecting people isn't gonna stop them from being affected.

It isn't a matter of catastrophing, it's a matter of coming to terms with what's happening - which isn't easy to do because we don't necessarily know. We keep having the same discussion because it's been two months and we're nowhere near closer to know what is going to happen next. I'm torn between wanting Dan to upload next week just so we can have an insight on what's going on (and so people won't be disappointed because somehow they have decided that is what's going to happen) and hoping that he wont because in the midst of being happy with his return I'd feel pretty annoyed that he made us wait for this arbitrary date.

I still love them, I still love their content, I love the community more than ever for keeping me engaged, but I can still see flaw in their communication, and I'm just left wondering if two months from now we're still gonna be in this limbo.

100% Phil stayed awake so Dan wouldn't be pressured to post sleeping photos of him.

I mean, Dan could've easily posted that picture of Phil to complete the trilogy and prove that this year he stayed awake. A "he finally did it" kinda thing but okay I guess

[black_rat]

I think for me personally the hiatus is a bit hard to deal with because I haven't been long around for dnp (meaning I had a lot of content the last year, additionally to catching up and watching all the old videos) and then falling into reading fanfiction. This is my first fandom experience, I stumbled upon dnp because I like watching YouTubers, and the connection that YouTubers create with the viewers. While I still can enjoy fandom works without dnp, the presence of dnp for me is essential to being a fan. If they are not around interacting with us, I have a hard time feeling content, especially with an open endpoint. What I really need are liveshows, and it looks like they don't want to do them anymore at all.

I feel like the negativity also stems from the uncertainty of people not knowing how future content will look like and trying to figure out if dnp will still give them what they need, in order to stick around.

Also I don't think that Dan thinks it will be "obvious", after all he was the one who insisted that Phil had to spell it out, because otherwise we wouldn't know.

[alittledizzy]

100% Phil stayed awake so Dan wouldn't be pressured to post sleeping photos of him.

I thought the same thing, lol.

I actually thought Phil probably stayed awake because it looks like based on the lack of social media updates their normal “party” (which was just Bryony last year) didn’t happen and if he’d been asleep it would have just been Dan watching it alone.

[Ablissa]

We keep having this conversation, and I feel like each time we do, one of the sides feels like their opinion is wrong somehow. Truth is, there is no wrong opinion here, because this whole discussion is based on how we feel. No one's going to tell you how to feel.
If you want to feel upset, go ahead. If you want to feel positive, that's great. There's no right or wrong here.

I think it's okay to feel upset with them, but it's also okay to show the fandom some extra love and find your engagement in that. Like I said earlier, I don't want to catastrophize. Nothing is ending. When they come back, so will most of their fans. Some of them will be too bored by then and won't care as much as they used to, which is okay. People in fandom come and go all the time.

I also think that the issue here is that fandom and the creators are two separate things. I love the fandom, the fics, the art, the discussions we have here, and the people that I chat with. I view that as something separate from Dan and Phil themselves though, because they don't participate in it (thank heavens). It's okay to love the fandom but still miss the creators. And it's okay to feel a bit meh in this drought, especially after an amazing year of content. Also... two months in youtube time is way longer than two months in tv show time.

It's normal to feel antsy right now. I'm just glad we all have this place to fall back on when we feel anxious in other spaces.

[glitterintheair]

I feel like the problem here is not even waiting but not knowing what we're waiting for.
I have been reading fics more in the past two months than I have in my entire life and that's what's keeping me afloat, but there's a constant voice in my head wondering what dan and phil are up to and I always end up feeling a bit antsy because of that.

Also, since I'm a stereotypical Capricorn and pettiness is my coping mechanism, it amuses me how there's been so much discussion about dnp trying to strenghten their solo brands and individualities but Phil is carrying their joint fanbase on his back on Dan's behalf too and he's the one people are expecting #DanContent from (which is not fair to Phil but that's how it is). How can they be separate identities - if that's what they want to be - if one of them is not present at all ? I love questions and no answers.

[Amiaw]

Tbh I think the reason the hiatus is hitting so hard for me is that I believed Dan when he said that things weren’t going to change much and now that everything has changed I don’t really feel like I trust them anymore. I still enjoy the content and it’s mostly nostalgia and past goodwill that keeps me coming back for more but I was actually excited about this “future” that Dan talked about but we are almost in March and in this timeline Dan doesn’t interact with us and DanandPhil don’t exist as a unit, they don’t exist as best friends, and they don’t even exist as roommates publicly and I never thought the only time they’d give us some insight into their shared existence Is when they had something to sell. They obv. don’t owe us their personal lives but an explanation of why we don’t even get to see their friendship anymore would be nice too.

Idk. I’m obviously speaking out of emotion and everyone here talking about the good points in fandom are right too but rn I’m not satisfied with the people the fandom is built around so it’s hard to get excited

[dancy]

The thing is, I already read fanfiction, interacted with other phandom members, rewatched videos and other stuff before the hiatus started and I think because of that, doing these things now doesn't really fill up the gap for me (though I do still enjoy it). I'm not dealing with the hiatus as bad as some other people are but I definitely hope something will happen in March, whether it's the general return of Dan, a DINOF video, live shows or joint content to some degree (not expecting DAPG to come back yet though). That isn't to say that I don't enjoy or appreciate Phil and his videos but I'm not sure how much longer just that will keep me entertained.

[phanfckingtastic]

Something’s happened to or around Cornelia and she posted about it reframing her priorities and worries on her ig.
I hope she’s okay and I admire her clarity and kindness.

It also reminds me why it still rubs me the wrong way when people start to complain at such an emotional level when there’s no new content for a while.
My advice is to take a few steps back and see that your needs and their life are on separate lanes, and that our attachment to their public work and personalities is all ours, based on our own ideas and circumstances, the specific needs or distraction we crave.
There are PLENTY of videos and liveshows to watch, rewatch etc.
Complaining so much and so angrily there’s nothing! new! Right now when I want it! imo is a bit much. But of course everyone is free to feel and express whatever they want.

Where it ties with Cornelia is that as I’ve said here before, Dan could be in a bad place himself, but also he could have a friend or a relative going through a terminal illness, or in hospital, he could be doing intensive therapy work, or actual work for some huge project we’re not aware of and it’s being so stressful he needs a break from interacting on social media, etc. Infinite possibilities. And whilst I agree that it’s not a been terribly long time and hiatus happens, I also think it’s not an accident that Dan is only liking things here and there, but mostly is keeping a distance from the internet.
I get that they’re a very important source of entertainment and comfort for most of us here, but I’m sorry, although I miss them together too, my first thought is “I hope they’re doing well and maybe someday we get new stuff again”, not “gimme my dnp fix soon, explain why you’re silent or I will stop caring at all”.

I think being a discerning fan shouldn’t be just for demanding accountability when controversial shit happens, but also remain self-aware enough to know they’re not our parents, friends, doctors, or drug dealers, and these two people have more in their life than “lazy afternoons having sex on the sofa and playing video games so why are they not giving us new stuff” as is the usual inside phandom joke.
Idk. I have nothing personal against anyone who feels sad they haven’t posted joint content in a couple of months, I feel sad too!
I just think it’s nice to lead with empathy if every once in a while for a little stretch we don’t get exactly what we want from these two guys whose present private circumstances we barely know. They have provided content for a decade almost without interruptions, for the most part always positive, always doing their job more cheerfully and being more grateful to their audience than many of their peers, so imo they are more than entitled to take a break. I have a lot of affection for them so I don’t mind if their personal issues need to take priority over their career for a bit. Until they coem back (well, actually Dan and joint stuff because let’s not forget Phil is being very prolific this year), there’s no lack of older vids or other entertainment online available 24/7, very cheap or even free.

[snokoplasmic]

Something that I remember them saying, multiple times, is that they didn't think that they would have anything interesting to ig story after the tour, that they weren't sure if they would even continue them after the tour, that they weren't sure if anyone would be interested in the non-important (for a lack of better terms) things that would become their only things to ig story after the tour -- but everyone begged them to continue them. And that is....exactly what happened. They (Phil) used ig stories less because there is less to document, which is just what they said. And, also, the response is also exactly what they thought. Phil posts a picture of a video game or whatever and the response is that it's boring. Like....that's what they said lol. This post is really messy bc I'm on mobile and it's 7:30 am on a Monday but what I'm trying to say, basically, is that I don't think we should be expecting instagram stories as one of our main sources of content, because they TOLD us that those would probably dwindle/not be so constant once they return to their normal, day-to-day life. In fact, they've told us a good amount of stuff concerning life after tour that we seem to have forgotten about.

[fancybum]

Lol people that simply long to hear from Dan and feel like expressing it are unempathetic and unselfaware entitled monsters, ok got it. Sad and wishful opinions not allowed because maybe someone died, sure. Like is the fact that people are mostly just saying ‘I’m sad and miss them’, not ‘he better post immediately or fuck him/dance monkey dance’ being completely lost here just so people can jerk themselves off over how much more correct their own emotions are? Congrats, I hope you get a medal.

Something that I remember them saying, multiple times, is that they didn't think that they would have anything interesting to ig story after the tour, that they weren't sure if they would even continue them after the tour, that they weren't sure if anyone would be interested in the non-important (for a lack of better terms) things that would become their only things to ig story after the tour -- but everyone begged them to continue them. And that is....exactly what happened. They (Phil) used ig stories less because there is less to document, which is just what they said. And, also, the response is also exactly what they thought. Phil posts a picture of a video game or whatever and the response is that it's boring. Like....that's what they said lol. This post is really messy bc I'm on mobile and it's 7:30 am on a Monday but what I'm trying to say, basically, is that I don't think we should be expecting instagram stories as one of our main sources of content, because they TOLD us that those would probably dwindle/not be so constant once they return to their normal, day-to-day life. In fact, they've told us a good amount of stuff concerning life after tour that we seem to have forgotten about.

My sticking point, since I don’t care about ig stories, is liveshows. If they were planning on cutting those out too, they could have said when they announced killing dapg . Eternal sigh.

[glitterintheair]

I mean, if we're sticking to what dnp said, dan also told us that nothing would change that much and they would still be on the internet and they weren't going anywhere, but you know.. or are we supposed to believe what they say only when it's good for them?

[so_cheesy]

I'm equal parts annoyed and concerned about Dan being in this weird limbo. Yes, people are allowed to take a break, go on holiday, life happens sometimes, but that doesn't change the fact that Dan's job is being an entertainer on social media and when he isn't doing that, his job, the people who consume his work are going to have a reaction.