Dan & Phil Part 86: here, queer & full of existential fear

[Amiaw]

the shadow ban just ended on his twitter

[autumnhearth]

Thanks all, that makes perfect sense. Especially given his earlier comfort with calling himself bisexual “it was a good term cause it was a catch all for anyone who felt sexually confused or curious that didnt want to commit to something stronger which is very me” not that he’s just curious or sexually confused anymore, but the commitment and not wanting to be boxed in still stand.

Now that I think about it, I might have guessed that’s what he meant two weeks ago, it’s just whenever the line pops in my head I’m like does not compute. So many lines still popping in my head everyday. Just this afternoon, I was exasperatedly sighing about how ridiculous it was that I was starting to tear up at a stop light just remembering the earnestness in Dan’s voice when he says ‘and the relationship that we formed at that point was something I *needed* in my life’. He just hit every emotional note perfectly in that video.

Oh horray! Is this the end of the (what a week long?) dark ages? Come back and wave that pride flag you funky little queer (where did I even get that line from?)

Oh! Speaking of language does anyone else not say ‘a gay’ or ‘a bisexual’ when referring to a person? I always add on ‘person’ or a gender.

[knq]

Oh! Speaking of language does anyone else not say ‘a gay’ or ‘a bisexual’ when referring to a person? I always add on ‘person’ or a gender.

I noticed Dan used "a gay" near the end of his video and I'm also curious if this is common or becoming common? Dan is younger, gayer, and more in tune with popular culture than I am, so I just kind of expect him to use words or new phrases I'm not familiar with. But if I heard someone who wasn't out refer to someone else as "a gay" my next thought would be is this person homophobic?

[wiccamoody]

I really, really hope Dan never stops making gay jokes. I'm living (and glad he is too now!)

[Cafil]

Ive never used "a gay" isolated but using " a fellow gay" or generally with any adjective on front seems natural to me at least when referring to others if I am referring to myself I will use "a gay" Now that I really think about it

[Ablissa]

I love that he can joke like this now. Happy sigh. Also, fuck you twitter for being stupid and depriving us of tweets for a week.

[Secretstanner]

Oh! Speaking of language does anyone else not say ‘a gay’ or ‘a bisexual’ when referring to a person? I always add on ‘person’ or a gender.

I noticed Dan used "a gay" near the end of his video and I'm also curious if this is common or becoming common? Dan is younger, gayer, and more in tune with popular culture than I am, so I just kind of expect him to use words or new phrases I'm not familiar with. But if I heard someone who wasn't out refer to someone else as "a gay" my next thought would be is this person homophobic?

This is me just speaking for myself but could also apply to dan. If me and my friend say gays or a gay it’s because we are “taking the piss” out of people who use that not realising its slightly offence. I know this might not make any sense maybe someone can frase it better. I don’t think dan actually says ‘a gay’ other than comedic effect? I’ve seen a lot more queer people say it as of the past couple of years. If I hear a queer person say the gays or a gay I feel less cringe about it than if I hear about it in a serious way.... god this makes no sense someone help!! Am I completely alone in this?

[dontpanic]

Oh! Speaking of language does anyone else not say ‘a gay’ or ‘a bisexual’ when referring to a person? I always add on ‘person’ or a gender.

I noticed Dan used "a gay" near the end of his video and I'm also curious if this is common or becoming common? Dan is younger, gayer, and more in tune with popular culture than I am, so I just kind of expect him to use words or new phrases I'm not familiar with. But if I heard someone who wasn't out refer to someone else as "a gay" my next thought would be is this person homophobic?

This is me just speaking for myself but could also apply to dan. If me and my friend say gays or a gay it’s because we are “taking the piss” out of people who use that not realising its slightly offence. I know this might not make any sense maybe someone can frase it better. I don’t think dan actually says ‘a gay’ other than comedic effect? I’ve seen a lot more queer people say it as of the past couple of years. If I hear a queer person say the gays or a gay I feel less cringe about it than if I hear about it in a serious way.... god this makes no sense someone help!! Am I completely alone in this?

no that sounds about right. It could either be an "inside joke" humor thing usually referring to one's self, or kind of offensive depending on who it's coming from... in this case it's humor.

[madzilla84]

Re Pride, I guess I’m in the ‘never say never’ camp, but London Pride is *huge* and would probably be A Lot, especially for someone who’s likely to get recognised quite a bit. I don’t know if there’s a VIP area, or if YouTube/Google have an official presence (most big corporations do) that might invite him. (I will say that if he went I’d kinda expect it to be him on his own, but who knows.) It’ll be interesting to see what happens!

As for The Future, same as the above poster who said something, *anything* joint at this point. Not even just the gaming channel, though obviously I would LOVE that, just - appearing in each other’s lives again, in their tweets and insta stories and videos. I miss that so much.

[ravenreyes]

i hope he never stops making gay jokes, it's my favorite thing.

and it just makes me very happy that he feels like he can openly joke like that now.


i do still wonder what the fuck happened with twitter though

[autumnhearth]

Oh! Speaking of language does anyone else not say ‘a gay’ or ‘a bisexual’ when referring to a person? I always add on ‘person’ or a gender.

I noticed Dan used "a gay" near the end of his video and I'm also curious if this is common or becoming common? Dan is younger, gayer, and more in tune with popular culture than I am, so I just kind of expect him to use words or new phrases I'm not familiar with. But if I heard someone who wasn't out refer to someone else as "a gay" my next thought would be is this person homophobic?

This is me just speaking for myself but could also apply to dan. If me and my friend say gays or a gay it’s because we are “taking the piss” out of people who use that not realising its slightly offence. I know this might not make any sense maybe someone can frase it better. I don’t think dan actually says ‘a gay’ other than comedic effect? I’ve seen a lot more queer people say it as of the past couple of years. If I hear a queer person say the gays or a gay I feel less cringe about it than if I hear about it in a serious way.... god this makes no sense someone help!! Am I completely alone in this?

no that sounds about right. It could either be an "inside joke" humor thing usually referring to one's self, or kind of offensive depending on who it's coming from... in this case it's humor.

See I could accept this except he used it more than once and one time was in a very serious context, of speaking up when you see anyone being harassed like a woman or “a gay”. I used to correct my mom on that phrasing all the time, so I could see it poking fun at it, but in this video it didn’t seem like a joke and if it is people who watch it might think that’s a common term.

Where’s a screenshot of the ‘are you and phil gays’ ask with Dan’s response ‘gays? lol no’ that was definitely laughing at the phrasing.

[wells.kai]

i feel so behind on everything because ive been going back on this thread a little and i keep finding out more and more thats just happened within the past couple weeks... if anyone kinda has a list maybe if important things from dans vid onwards?


am i the only one that feels bad that dan got suspended for a week on twitter because of homophobia? though i relate ive been s since last wednesday and twitter still hasnt replied to my appeal

i feel dead inside literally ik dan and phil talk about awkward experiences and stuff like that but i LITERALLY have the same types of feelings issues experiences oml i just cant even... can someone help out your fellow full time internet homo? itd be very appreciated... apologies everyone (if this is out of line mods please dont ban me forever ill do anything to make it up) sorry sorry i exist

[wells.kai]

I really, really hope Dan never stops making gay jokes. I'm living (and glad he is too now!)

this though

[cocolero]

What post-coming out-universe things are you looking forward to most?

I get all tingly when I imagine them posing for pictures at a premiere together (which... hopefully we'll actually get to see... lookin' at you, last Star Wars premiere) or the idea that they can spend holidays together if they choose to without needing to be cagey about it.

An Onlyfans account,

[Ataraxia25]

Concerning the "a gay" discussion: I guess of some people noticed him dying that it means that there's a problem with it? Is it offensive or...? Please enlighten me because this is the kind of linguistic problems i love.

[wiccamoody]

I've always taken someone saying "a gay" who is queer as just a jokey way to refer to themselves or other queer people, but when used by someone who isn't queer it's othering and rude, as without "person" after it or simply stating something to the effect of "someone who is gay" it really singles out the minority group part of the statement like it's a bad thing.

On a whole other topic, as I love me some jimmy0010, I was watching back some of his old videos and this one struck me as something Phil could definitely make an entertaining video out of (and depending on the notes, very easily over 10 mins!). It's not an original idea ofc and we've seen him do it on twitter but there's bound to be some funny stuff he can talk about tbh.

[madzilla84]

am i the only one that feels bad that dan got suspended for a week on twitter because of homophobia? though i relate ive been s since last wednesday and twitter still hasnt replied to my appeal

He was joking it’s a really common hyperbolic joke that I see friends in the LGBT community post all the time.

“*tiniest inconvenience happens* this is homophobia”

In fact I saw tons of people make exactly the same joke about Dan’s ban; it was literally the most predictable thing he could have returned with.

I expect he truly did ping the algorithm for ‘unusual activity’, which in his case was tweeting more than once in a week Twitter are pretty adamant that they don’t shadowban people, even though they do, so I doubt he’ll ever get a proper explanation.

[autumnhearth]

Concerning the "a gay" discussion: I guess of some people noticed him dying that it means that there's a problem with it? Is it offensive or...? Please enlighten me because this is the kind of linguistic problems i love.

It’s the same reason I wouldn’t say “a black”, “a white”, “a Chinese” or “an Indian” no matter which ethnic group that word is referring to and while terms like African American and Native American are more acceptable to my ears I still like to add “person” (the safest way would be to say a person of [ ] descent, but I realize no one has time for that), I dunno it’s just more humanizing?

I don’t think anyone says “a French” or “an English”, some may say “a German” but I don’t. I don’t say “a Spaniard” or “a Greek” (unless talking about Ancient Greece or perhaps some other times in the distant past) but I *might* say “an Italian” sometimes? Maybe? I’m honestly not sure with that one.

I definitely *would* say “a Canadian”, “an Australian”, “a Kiwi” (but probably only when referring to the white people/non-Natives for that last one and I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or not to distinguish). Ahhh! I don’t think I would say “a Maori” ever, but like most of these I think it’s fine to say Maori to refer to a group. (I still wouldn’t say blacks or whites, I have said African Americans, but prefer to add people or sometimes say people of color).

I might say “a European” in the context of trying to communicate an attitude or way of life that is different to American. I would say “an American” in certain situations, like when they are in a different country or perhaps an attitude again, but maybe because of the idea of that attitude in my head, I would not refer to myself, friends, family or people in my community individually as “an American” (my dad might be the exception as he is a conservative patriot, born on the 4th of July, in Washington DC and was a captain in the US Navy, but mostly I just call him Dad).

I don’t think I would say “a Russian”, I would not say “a Polish” and definitely not a “Polack”. I might be ok with saying “a Swede”, “a Dane” or “a Finn” (though I have much more fun saying “my Finnish friend”). I’m fine with saying “a Hungarian” (my mother is half Hungarian), but not “an Irish” (which my dad is half) but with that one, English and French I think it’s just historic linguistic precedent for saying “Irishman”, “Englishman” and “Frenchman”, that makes the former awkward, though those terms/titles aren’t used much today, we would separate the words or say person.

I think for the rest of Eastern Europe I would always add person. Same goes for any Asian, Middle Eastern or peoples living in or from an country in the African and South American continents plus Central America. Two things could be assumed by this: I am uncomfortable using “[ ]” for any member of a minority or cultural/ethnic group that has been or is persecuted. Or it has to do with my degree of familiarity with said group (plus linguistic precedent). Also I’m just really concerned with being PC.

When it comes to religion there is definitely a double standard (for me at least). I have no issue saying “a Christian” or “a Catholic” but would say “a Jewish person” rather than “a Jew”. That’s probably because of historical persecution and that it’s cultural as well as religious. I have no idea why I’m fine saying “a Buddhist”, but would not usually use “a Hindu”. And yet “a Mormon”, “a Jehovah’s Wittness”, “a Pagan” and “a Wiccan” are all equally fine by me (is it because their more modern? iDK!). I would say “an Amish person” but am ok with “a Mennonite” and maybe “a Quaker”?

I touched on it a little under the cut, but this really only concerns the singular. In most cases “Germans”, “Italians” and “Russians” are all fine in the plural (again I’m only talking about my personal use) but I still would rather not say “Jews” or “Chinese”. I’m going to need both a linguist and someone to psycho-analyze me please. Likewise I’m fine with saying “she’s Russian” *and* “she’s Jewish” and could say both when describing my brother’s partner.

Political groups I think I’m ok with (“a Democrat”, “a Libertarian”, but we wouldn’t say “a Green” lol), sub cultures, etc. (“a geek”, “a gamer”, “a goth”, “a punk”, “an emo”, “a hipster”, “a hippy”, “a god I’m tired of using quotation marks”). But I have officially worn out of what little brain power I woke up with early this morning.

My sincerest apologies if I offended anyone. All my opinions are just that, and personal only what I have said, would say or would think I would say and even some are not concrete. I do enjoy a good linguistic discussion!

[wells.kai]

am i the only one that feels bad that dan got suspended for a week on twitter because of homophobia? though i relate ive been s since last wednesday and twitter still hasnt replied to my appeal

He was joking it’s a really common hyperbolic joke that I see friends in the LGBT community post all the time.

“*tiniest inconvenience happens* this is homophobia”

In fact I saw tons of people make exactly the same joke about Dan’s ban; it was literally the most predictable thing he could have returned with.

I expect he truly did ping the algorithm for ‘unusual activity’, which in his case was tweeting more than once in a week Twitter are pretty adamant that they don’t shadowban people, even though they do, so I doubt he’ll ever get a proper explanation.

oof thank you for clearing this up im so embarrassed

i legit didnt even think about this as a joke because im so literal (#autismbrain #whoopssorryiusetoomanyofthese #ilegithaveasdthoimnotjoking)... uhhh yea sorry my brain doesnt know when people are joking but usually because ive been watching dan and phil for so long i can tell...

sidenote... im obsessed with these smilies ahhh sorry this is off topic...


as for news since dans vid i currently have this and i am wondering if anyone could remind me/tell me what im missing? (im not trying to stalk them i promise my brain is really weird):
-dan came out thru vid
-phil comes out quoting said vid, pre low key
-dan posts its a great day to be gay and other tweets all in one day
-CAKE PICS (not the cake scene i wish)
-ive heard phil posted a member thingy on yt talking about how “we” (him and dan) are going to vidcon and taking a road trip to Nevada after?
-dan gets kicked out of twitter ( i still cant believe how thick (daft) i am sometimes )
-phil tweets a few very discrete unrelated things but also the trash room one which bless you king philip (i refer to phil lester my king, not HRH Prince Phillip)
-i got suspended on twitter for “making a death threat” to my other king dan howell (I CAN EXPLAIN I DID NOT ACTUALLY THREATEN TO KILL HIM AND ANYONE WITH HALF A BRAIN COULD TELL... IF YOU WANT MORE PROOF ASK ME)
-uhh yea im an awkward queer formless blob thats known of dan and phil since 2012 ish and dove head first into being a phannie literally between dec 26-31 of 2015
-im sorry mods if you see this and this isnt good please lmk im really trying here...

[autumnhearth]

Just wanted to add that I talked to my husband and he thinks it has more to do with the word itself/the flow of language. Words that end in N like: American, Canadian, Mexican, Australian, Korean, Brazilian, Puerto Rican, German, Norwegian, Russian all sound fine to him when referring to people, not just the language. But he would not say “a Japanese” or anything ending in “ish”. Also referring to a nationality is different than referring to an ethnic group. He does not have the double standard of people of different religions He agrees with not using “a [ ]” for race, especially by color and added that he calls his friends out for saying “a male” or “a female” for people (but maybe not animals and even then you would probably add on “goat”).

[flarequake]

Interesting discussion on all the terms, autumnhearth. I know I prefer Jewish than a Jew, and never “Jewess” which I was asked once and had never heard that side of the 1800s, it sounded that much more othery and sexist

wells.kai try not to worry about asking things or not understanding something, I don’t think anything you’ve asked has been anywhere near crossing a line.

[autumnhearth]

Replying to my second post above ^^ Eureka! That’s why “a lesbian” and “lesbians” sounds right but “a gay” and “gays” do not! (This hit me while slicing a peach). Do “n” endings just instantly create a tribe of people?

[wells.kai]

thank you @flarequake

[AltMay]

@autumnhearth i'm enjoying your take on this so much! Particularly as a non english speaker, i'm a sucker for languge discussion.

[sparkle]

I am living for Dan being so blatantly gay.

now he can actually promote a video can they plz upload joint content. I need more gay Dan in my life.

I've been watching so many videos of them in the last two weeks. I cannot cope.