Dan & Phil Part 87: post coming out universe

[liola]

Dan and Phil aren't your equality and justice dolls that you get to decide which way they move and which way they don't. They're real people with real lives and real feelings, and while they identify as gay, it doesn't stop there. They're not just gay, or just white, or just cis men. We see barely a fraction of what goes on in their lives and they don't owe us explanations. I was sad that we didn't see Phil at pride because I would've loved to enjoy his first pride as out in public since he also came out and not just Dan. He didn't, I was sad, I moved on. But being upset and irrational about it is not okay. He's a fucking person and he doesn't owe you an explanation for why he didn't get to go or didn't want to. I'm glad he didn't give an explanation because that would only open up the can of people expecting them to justify their actions.

I'm sorry for what happened to your boyfriend, It's awful and no one should ever go through that but please remind yourself that both Dan and Phil suffered because of their sexuality, just because Phil made light of it doesn't mean he didn't (he was publicly outed, TWICE) and Phil showing up at a March for 10 minutes wouldn't change the view of homophobic assholes

[eevee]

I can't get over how sweet Dan was with all the fans he ran into... he's a peach that boy. also it turns out lil nas x was there today and I'm so sad they didn't meet

oh my god, Dan meeting lil nas x would've been sooo awesome and on brand!! missed opportunity!

I don’t think anyone, public figure or not, has any obligation to be an activist. Ethics are not all or nothing.

It’s funny, I always thought one of the main reasons they wouldn’t ever come out was because of the pressure of forcibly becoming spokespeople for a whole entire movement/group of people and the pressure of people having very specific and personal expectations of how to support the community that they would then resent dip and dot for not fulfilling... Us queer folks are really good at taking other peoples’ public queerness very personally.

Of course no one owes anyone activism (or presence at a crowded event),

In my humble opinion, Phil doesn't owe anything to anyone. Like other forum members have said, going to Pride doesn't make or break your queerness.

You can't tell another gay person what the right way to be gay is. Even if they're rich. Even if they have influence.

You can be disappointed on a personal level, but your unilateral declaration of what is a 'waste' is simply untrue. No one gets to decide that about another human being. In my opinion it's unfair and reductive of the good someone does to place the bar higher than it was before suddenly because they chose to come out publicly.

Dan and Phil aren't your equality and justice dolls that you get to decide which way they move and which way they don't. They're real people with real lives and real feelings, and while they identify as gay, it doesn't stop there. They're not just gay, or just white, or just cis men. We see barely a fraction of what goes on in their lives and they don't owe us explanations. I was sad that we didn't see Phil at pride because I would've loved to enjoy his first pride as out in public since he also came out and not just Dan. He didn't, I was sad, I moved on. But being upset and irrational about it is not okay. He's a fucking person and he doesn't owe you an explanation for why he didn't get to go or didn't want to. I'm glad he didn't give an explanation because that would only open up the can of people expecting them to justify their actions.

I'm sorry for what happened to your boyfriend, It's awful and no one should ever go through that but please remind yourself that both Dan and Phil suffered because of their sexuality, just because Phil made light of it doesn't mean he didn't (he was publicly outed, TWICE) and Phil showing up at a March for 10 minutes wouldn't change the view of homophobic assholes

Thanks everyone for saying this, I went off a little earlier in the thread on this but I deleted it because I didn't want to get hate. But phanfckingtastic, we are not disagreeing with you because you're spoiling our fun. We are disagreeing with you because we fundamentally disagree with the notion that being a successful queer person gives you an activism obligation. Phil (and Dan too) worked very hard to get to where he is today. He didn't inherit an immense amount of wealth and he wasn't born into a famous family. Phil is a perfect example of earning wealth and status via hard work. And, Phil also happens to be gay. So, if someone like Phil works hard and, despite the oppression that comes with being queer, becomes successful, that then gives them an obligation to do something? He has absolutely no obligation to you, me, the community, anyone. He can CHOOSE to use his platform for activism, like Dan is, but he is in no way obligated. This is a very dehumanizing way to look at it. Phil is an individual person who also experiences homophobia and other oppression related to being a queer person. Being successful does not take away from that. He is a whole person who worked hard and got to where he is today. I think you're not really seeing him as a whole person and instead seeing him as a name up in lights - our society will have us believe that celebrities are somehow superhuman, and live by a different set of rules than real people. But that's not true, and it's especially not true of Phil, who is an nontraditional celebrity who literally got to where he is via nothing but hard ass work.

I have many friends in the lgbtq+ community who are less privileged than me, and I'm a member of it myself, and they've told me about being assaulted in the streets. Being asked to hide their sexuality because the apartment building didn't like it, or work didn't like it, or what have you. I've experienced some of this myself and know people who experience more of it. I am no stranger to the struggle of homophobia, transphobia, and queer oppression. And that's part of why we need pride and we need people like Dan and Phil to come out, as Dan mentioned in his video. Having representation and positive role models is important. But we also need to celebrate ourselves and be happy about who we are. Even that is an act of activism, as it shows the rest of the population that we are here, and they cannot scare us out of being who we are. You can see pride as a protest if you'd like, but it is supposed to be a positive and loving environment, even though we all face oppression. We know life isn't a cake walk, but we are celebrating our own existence anyway.

Queer people go through enough. Enough is demanded of us. The answer is not to demand more from those queer people who make it to the top. The answer is not to tell our siblings that they owe us something. The answer is to stand together and to show the rest of society that we are here and we aren't going anywhere. No one person can change society. But as a unified group, we can.

Phil not providing us with a reason as to why he wasn't there further makes it clear that it is literally none of our business.

+1

[Amiaw]

as someone who is as private (maybe even more so) than Phil I can completely understand why he doesn’t make statements. I can’t speak for why he’s so closed off but I know in my case that while I want to be more vocal I simply can’t for a multitude of reasons and I have been misunderstood and have been made to feel terrible and it’s such a terrible burden to put on someone who has trouble opening up.

[phanfckingtastic]

...and now back to posts about sweets for the children.

Two things that I’ve always found off putting about this forum are that I don’t think I’ve ever read anybody say “oh, I think you’re actually right” (not to me, in general, double down until the core of the earth) and that pretty much all active users make any comment or criticism about dan or phil immediately into a criticism about themselves.

Yes, @alittledizzy, I’m sorry you disagree for whatever reason, but it is objectively a waste not to use a platform for good things. He uses it a bit, but there’s a HUGE margin and he does the most basic of basic, like saying good things are good and bad things are not ok, when it comes to LGBTQ+ issues.
Yes, privileged people HAVE a bigger responsibility. And I don’t think that’s a new idea. Because I bet you wouldn’t say this to me if I was demanding a man be more involved in supporting women, or white people supporting people of colour.

Phil is at the top of the queer food chain, and therefore he has it way WAY easier than 99% of the rest, to make a significant difference. He could type a tweet! Post a photo! And instantly reach thousands more than I'll reach in my lifetime. Ridiculously easy.
Like Phil, I’m a white gay man, and for that reason I make sure I stay educated about trans issues, poc issues within the community etc because it is my responsibility to use my privilege for good, to reach out and get everybody who is behind as close as possible to where I am in dignity and social respect. I can choose not to do it, bit exactly as it is with Phil, it would be a waste.

Yes, maybe he spent the whole day in bed with a fever. He could have been in a spaceship to Mars.
The reality is that he didn’t do the most basic thing, and offered no explanation.
To me, that’s very disappointing.

[Templeofshame]

I agree with the general opinion that Phil doesn't owe anyone activism by virtue of any of his many privileges or his platform or by virtue of being gay; he's already done more than I expected he ever would by explicitly coming out, and it's fairly clear to me that money goes to good places behind the scenes. And if he wanted to be a privileged gay man who never did anything to help the community beyond being visibly gay and happy (or even if he had never come out), that's fair. We're not all gonna be activists, we're not all gonna save the world, and the vast majority of people with far larger platforms that Phil use them far, far worse (even the gay celebrities who are actually way further up the food chain than Phil). Personally, I'm more interested in calling out people who are doing damage with their platforms than criticizing people for not doing the particular type/amount of good you think they should be. Everyone wastes potential. And if Phil became the next Tyler Oakley and dedicated a huge amount of his platform to activism, other potential would be lost.

But the thing I came here to point out is just that from a practical standpoint, Dan and Phil largely share a platform, and to the degree that they're separate, Dan's is larger. So even if we presume that we know Phil's life and he just didn't want to go to Pride, he'd be forcing himself to do something he didn't want to so that... the people who care about D&P would have seen two people there instead of one? (And be distracted by analyzing their interactions) The charities would have another video clip and a couple more tweets... if they even were open to having Phil join them. I think Dan effectively reached the audience they were gonna reach; a bunch of us know more about those charities than we did before, and a lot of people's decisions to go to Pride were influenced by knowing Dan would be there. I suspect Phil knew that Dan had it covered and that their platform was being put to good use, just not by Phil.

(I do wanna kinda disagree with @eevee who I otherwise agree with to just say that it seems objectively factual that Phil was born rich. That doesn't change that he worked hard for his success, but I think we can agree on the lack of obligation for Phil to be an activist without downplaying his privilege.)

[woopdada]

@phanfckingtastic, you're just reaching and have no idea what Phil's motives are. Just because someone doesn't support Pride doesn't mean they aren't using their platform. And there are dozens of reasons why even a politically engaged person might not want to attend Pride or why they might disagree with it. Ours is today and I did not attend either because I disagree with the commercialisation of it (which literally includes a weapon manufacturer attending smh).

[jhamba]

...and now back to posts about sweets for the children.

Two things that I’ve always found off putting about this forum are that I don’t think I’ve ever read anybody say “oh, I think you’re actually right” (not to me, in general, double down until the core of the earth) and that pretty much all active users make any comment or criticism about dan or phil immediately into a criticism about themselves.

Yes, @alittledizzy, I’m sorry you disagree for whatever reason, but it is objectively a waste not to use a platform for good things. He uses it a bit, but there’s a HUGE margin and he does the most basic of basic, like saying good things are good and bad things are not ok, when it comes to LGBTQ+ issues.
Yes, privileged people HAVE a bigger responsibility. And I don’t think that’s a new idea. Because I bet you wouldn’t say this to me if I was demanding a man be more involved in supporting women, or white people supporting people of colour.

Phil is at the top of the queer food chain, and therefore he has it way WAY easier than 99% of the rest, to make a significant difference. He could type a tweet! Post a photo! And instantly reach thousands more than I'll reach in my lifetime. Ridiculously easy.
Like Phil, I’m a white gay man, and for that reason I make sure I stay educated about trans issues, poc issues within the community etc because it is my responsibility to use my privilege for good, to reach out and get everybody who is behind as close as possible to where I am in dignity and social respect. I can choose not to do it, bit exactly as it is with Phil, it would be a waste.

Yes, maybe he spent the whole day in bed with a fever. He could have been in a spaceship to Mars.
The reality is that he didn’t do the most basic thing, and offered no explanation.
To me, that’s very disappointing.

It's a little weird to me that you consider going to pride the most basic thing. He came out, used his platform to highlight what life was like for him, and what it might be like for other people in a similar situation. He used his platform, and not going to a march which has multiple representatives, is really not something that's that important in the larger picture.

His platform has been used multiple times to advocate for causes, and most recently, for his own gayness, and it sucks that you think that attending a march is somehow a priority when it comes to advocating for lgbt+ people.

I also find it weird that you said that you asking that phil go to pride is similar to demanding that privileged people advocate for marginalized people, because, in this scenario, Phil doesn't actually have heterosexual privilege, so this is more similar to you wanting POC to do their advocacy in a way that you find appropriate.

I think it's okay that you're disappointed. But I think it's not actually something Phil is obligated to do.

[phanfckingtastic]

We disagree on the fundamental issue that I believe every LGBTQ+ person who is out and safe enough has a responsibility to help less privileged people in that community, and if they’re a public figure that is tenfold. I’m not asking for serious content, for a doco on Stonewall going on his main channel.
Again, to disagree with me you guys are putting extreme examples that don’t address what I’m saying.
Yes, they may share audience, so what? We’re supposed to read from silence that dan is there and tweeting on his behalf, too?
Maybe because I’m a bit older or because I have many trans friends, or just like I mentioned yesterday, my bf got jumped by homophobic assholes, I’m very firm in that position, because if everybody had done like Phil, the parade would’ve been empty. Rights gained have to be constantly reclaimed so that they stay. The fight is nowhere nearly done, it’s constant work that we simply cannot afford to avoid doing.

[malday]

Forgive my cynicism but i don't think celebrities participating in a parade, that has become commercialised, in a relatively safe 1st world country is going to stop you getting attacked, harassed, shunned by family, fired from your job or even killed depending on where you live. Publicly coming out might change perceptions, if you are a well liked public figure but i don't think attending pride has that much of an impact. You're gay the rest of the year too and can do things to help whenever.

I'm sympathetic to your frustration but pragmatically Phil having attended or tweeted would have changed nothing, in my opinion. But it's your prerogative to not support him if you think he is not doing enough.

[eevee]

(I do wanna kinda disagree with @eevee who I otherwise agree with to just say that it seems objectively factual that Phil was born rich. That doesn't change that he worked hard for his success, but I think we can agree on the lack of obligation for Phil to be an activist without downplaying his privilege.)

Oh yes he was definitely born into a family that wasn't struggling for financial security, i just meant he wasn't born into the level of riches he has now, his platform brought him that

[nilidh]

re:phil not attending pride

i always find it tedious that members of minority groups are held to a much higher standard than those w/ privilege when it comes to activism. so far, this pride month phil made a video coming out to his 4 million, promoted and supported dan's video, and publically liked the art celebrating the fact that he's gay on twitter... existing publically and proudly as a gay person is still a form of activism that we can't discount

sure, if i had a public platform like phil, i'd use it differently. but anger at those within the community who - for whatever reason - feel more comfortable not being at the centre of the political sphere feels misdirected. the fact that we're still fighting homophobia/transphobia is not the fault of gay people who ~aren't doing enough~. it's the fault of the homophobes and transphobes who continue to perpetuate harmful behaviours.

on a happier note, it was lovely to watch dan at pride and i'm really glad that it looked like he had a good time.

( oh also hi everyone, i've been lurking here for a while and i finally couldn't stop myself from posting sorry )

[blahblahblah8]

Phil is privileged in some ways and not in others. I think that’s true for most people. The problem here is that you’re decided what the right way to use your privilege is. There is no right way. I can confidently say that I believe Phil uses his privilege for good. He’s a business owner and he employs people who are of different genders, races, and sexualities. You’re putting these requirements on Phil based on labels. His identity is not a rich white man, he’s a human being. You don’t know him. It’s easy to feel resentful to privileged people when you feel like you’ve been disadvantaged due to factor out of your control but the “us vs them” mentality didn’t help anyone.

[jhamba]

re:phil not attending pride

i always find it tedious that members of minority groups are held to a much higher standard than those w/ privilege when it comes to activism. so far, this pride month phil made a video coming out to his 4 million, promoted and supported dan's video, and publically liked the art celebrating the fact that he's gay on twitter... existing publically and proudly as a gay person is still a form of activism that we can't discount

sure, if i had a public platform like phil, i'd use it differently. but anger at those within the community who - for whatever reason - feel more comfortable not being at the centre of the political sphere feels misdirected. the fact that we're still fighting homophobia/transphobia is not the fault of gay people who ~aren't doing enough~. it's the fault of the homophobes and transphobes who continue to perpetuate harmful behaviours.

on a happier note, it was lovely to watch dan at pride and i'm really glad that it looked like he had a good time.

( oh also hi everyone, i've been lurking here for a while and i finally couldn't stop myself from posting sorry )

^^^

[emoji_pajamas]

Personally I prefer queer public figures doing what they want to for pride, whatever or wherever that is, over straight celebs going for Ally Points.

This is literally their first pride being out, I doubt most people would be up for what you're expecting of them, regardless of their privilege or position

Also I had a dream last night they adopted a corgi. Out of curiousity what kind of pet do yall think they'd get?

[eevee]

Phil is privileged in some ways and not in others. I think that’s true for most people. The problem here is that you’re decided what the right way to use your privilege is. There is no right way. I can confidently say that I believe Phil uses his privilege for good. He’s a business owner and he employs people who are of different genders, races, and sexualities. You’re putting these requirements on Phil based on labels. His identity is not a rich white man, he’s a human being. You don’t know him. It’s easy to feel resentful to privileged people when you feel like you’ve been disadvantaged due to factor out of your control but the “us vs them” mentality didn’t help anyone.

+1

i always find it tedious that members of minority groups are held to a much higher standard than those w/ privilege when it comes to activism. so far, this pride month phil made a video coming out to his 4 million, promoted and supported dan's video, and publically liked the art celebrating the fact that he's gay on twitter... existing publically and proudly as a gay person is still a form of activism that we can't discount

sure, if i had a public platform like phil, i'd use it differently. but anger at those within the community who - for whatever reason - feel more comfortable not being at the centre of the political sphere feels misdirected. the fact that we're still fighting homophobia/transphobia is not the fault of gay people who ~aren't doing enough~. it's the fault of the homophobes and transphobes who continue to perpetuate harmful behaviours.

+1

It's a little weird to me that you consider going to pride the most basic thing. He came out, used his platform to highlight what life was like for him, and what it might be like for other people in a similar situation. He used his platform, and not going to a march which has multiple representatives, is really not something that's that important in the larger picture.

His platform has been used multiple times to advocate for causes, and most recently, for his own gayness, and it sucks that you think that attending a march is somehow a priority when it comes to advocating for lgbt+ people.

I also find it weird that you said that you asking that phil go to pride is similar to demanding that privileged people advocate for marginalized people, because, in this scenario, Phil doesn't actually have heterosexual privilege, so this is more similar to you wanting POC to do their advocacy in a way that you find appropriate.

I think it's okay that you're disappointed. But I think it's not actually something Phil is obligated to do.

+1 +1 +1 +1

I do think coming out in a video and providing representation is an act of activism in its own way. Dan even talked about that in his coming out video - the importance of coming out and being a good role model to younger queer people.

(it's times like this when the thanks button would be useful, alas...)

emoji_pajamas corgi all the way. i wish they were cat people but they are dog people ): someday theyll have a big yard for their doggos to run in...

guys did phil make that graphic with the fizzy bottles he tweeted out of this a meme i'm not aware of?

[blahblahblah8]

Forgive my cynicism but i don't think celebrities participating in a parade, that has become commercialised, in a relatively safe 1st world country is going to stop you getting attacked, harassed, shunned by family, fired from your job or even killed depending on where you live. Publicly coming out might change perceptions, if you are a well liked public figure but i don't think attending pride has that much of an impact. You're gay the rest of the year too and can do things to help whenever.

I'm sympathetic to your frustration but pragmatically Phil having attended or tweeted would have changed nothing, in my opinion. But it's your prerogative to not support him if you think he is not doing enough.

I agree with all of this 100%! Very well said

[phanfckingtastic]

Cool, if it means nothing then let’s just never do anything, especially nothing to ever disturb sweet baby angel phil who apparently everybody knows saves the world in many areas in his spare time, and have celebrities constantly share about clothes and food and animals on social media, but nothing else, ever. That’s great. Fuck the metoo movement, fuck blm, fuck years of insistence and public pressure for marriage equality. We’re fine. How dare I demand a little statement to pay respect and be grateful that you get to choose how you live in 2019. I forgot normal rules never apply to magical deities dan and phil.
You don’t understand how it’s important that people of a group who are better off stand up for the less privileged of that group? Have you lived under a rock for the last 20 years?
I stg it’s almost creepy how dan and phil get away with anything here. (Except droughts. Those are unforgivable.)
Anyway, I’ve said all I had to say. Time to go back to the real world.

[stufflizloves]

Out of curiousity what kind of pet do yall think they'd get?

*quietly suppresses internal children adoption speculation. not the time, Liz, not time*

I know Phil loves a corgi (and has made it a part of his Core Branding) but I just don’t see them as paying-a-breeder type of Dog Dads Dan, in particular, seems to vibe more with a rescue dog. Who knows! I do think there will be a larger gap between getting a dog and when they actually share that they’ve gotten a dog—they are so cautious with what they reveal publicly..I can’t see this being any different.

(I wanted to thank you all for the thoughtful responses to the non-dogo, less-light topics. I have been absorbing and learning from your words—I think IDB is so wonderful for nuanced opinions and y’all are just really great at expressing your thoughts diplomatically. Just a really great example of “we don’t all have to agree but we can all contribute.” )

[emoji_pajamas]

Cool, if it means nothing then let’s just never do anything, especially nothing to ever disturb sweet baby angel phil who apparently everybody knows saves the world in many areas in his spare time, and have celebrities constantly share about clothes and food and animals on social media, but nothing else, ever. That’s great. Fuck the metoo movement, fuck blm, fuck years of insistence and public pressure for marriage equality. We’re fine. How dare I demand a little statement to pay respect and be grateful that you get to choose how you live in 2019. I forgot normal rules never apply to magical deities dan and phil.
You don’t understand how it’s important that people of a group who are better off stand up for the less privileged of that group? Have you lived under a rock for the last 20 years?
I stg it’s almost creepy how dan and phil get away with anything here. (Except droughts. Those are unforgivable.)
Anyway, I’ve said all I had to say. Time to go back to the real world.

alright then! have fun out there in the real world

(I can't believe you'd draw tangents to metoo or blm for something like this but hey, us creepy people are too busy creepily idol worshipping to understand)

[obvsly]

Forgive my cynicism but i don't think celebrities participating in a parade, that has become commercialised, in a relatively safe 1st world country is going to stop you getting attacked, harassed, shunned by family, fired from your job or even killed depending on where you live. Publicly coming out might change perceptions, if you are a well liked public figure but i don't think attending pride has that much of an impact. You're gay the rest of the year too and can do things to help whenever.

I'm sympathetic to your frustration but pragmatically Phil having attended or tweeted would have changed nothing, in my opinion. But it's your prerogative to not support him if you think he is not doing enough.

I agree with all of this 100%! Very well said

Yes. Thank you. This.


Oh and I’m also quite seriously contemplating tattooing this across my forehead, dan’s style, with credit as well. It’s just so useful for every situation :

You're free to hold that opinion as passionately as you want, but framing it as an objective statement does not make it one.

[daichii]

It makes me roll my eyes that it is suddenly an issue now that they're out and it wasn't an issue in the past 10 years that they didn't attend pride, since they were even more privileged them *presumably straight until proven otherwise*

I would have loved to see Phil at pride and for him to be more active and vocal on a LOT of things not just pride, but is not something he is into and has never been into. Perhaps if we stop comparing them we would focus on what they do and not what they don't do that the other does. I do imagine that the tune would be even worst if this was the other way around which shows how toxic it is to keep comparing them.

[eevee]

Cool, if it means nothing then let’s just never do anything, especially nothing to ever disturb sweet baby angel phil who apparently everybody knows saves the world in many areas in his spare time, and have celebrities constantly share about clothes and food and animals on social media, but nothing else, ever. That’s great. Fuck the metoo movement, fuck blm, fuck years of insistence and public pressure for marriage equality. We’re fine. How dare I demand a little statement to pay respect and be grateful that you get to choose how you live in 2019. I forgot normal rules never apply to magical deities dan and phil.
You don’t understand how it’s important that people of a group who are better off stand up for the less privileged of that group? Have you lived under a rock for the last 20 years?
I stg it’s almost creepy how dan and phil get away with anything here. (Except droughts. Those are unforgivable.)
Anyway, I’ve said all I had to say. Time to go back to the real world.

You're accusing us of blindly supporting a problematic move by Phil because we love Phil, but in my opinion, if you'd really read our responses, you'd see that we have thought-out reasons for arguing that Phil is not obligated to be a queer activist. You can think that we pulled that out of our butts for this situation, but in reality we all just disagree with you on that point. And trying to call us out for just blindingly supporting Phil really downplays all of our opinions on this. I'm sorry but I don't think you're right about this and I don't agree with what you're saying, and same with many of the other members of this forum. If you were saying this about anyone else I still wouldn't agree.

it is important to stand up for less privileged members of a marginalized community. That does not give anyone an obligation.

[Templeofshame]

Yes, they may share audience, so what? We’re supposed to read from silence that dan is there and tweeting on his behalf, too?

I'm not sure why it would matter whether a tweet is "on his behalf" or not. My point is that what good there is to be done for LGBTQ+ rights and visibility by D&P going to Pride was done. One more kinda famous dude at London Pride, a couple more tweets, wouldn't change anything. Sure, if every couple only sent one person to Pride, Pride would be smaller, but that's not how it works. We need to show up sometimes, when it makes sense for us in the ways that make sense for us, and other times, other people take the burden for us. That's how communities get things done. (I live outside DC, I went to therapy for this, it's impossible and unhealthy to try to go to every protest for something I care about.) Some people take on more activism than others, and some focus on supporting others in the community and bonding them to each other (which I think is a lot of what D&P do) so that we're all better for it and more able to fight the next day. Some focus on visibility and education and inspiration (all of which D&P are doing well). It's a long, global haul, not a single parade, and we all have to make the calls on what role we can play in it.

It's interesting, because the last couple years I've personally been very critical of the brownie points the phandom poured on D&P's generic "happy Pride" tweets. I've been known to say that Ivanka Trump tweets "happy Pride," it's not an achievement. But this year, to me, Pride re: D&P is not about what anyone's tweeting or not, or the parade itself. They've been celebrating their queerness and the queerness of their community for several weeks now, to an audience much larger than London Pride, and with much more depth and humanity than can be accomplished with any sign or chant. I'm very glad that Dan went to Pride and represented an intersectional group of charities, and I hope that the positive response to that might encourage others (including Phil) to do similar things in the future (and I hope that Dan's participation led to increased donations in addition to visibility). But I do think what they're doing online has a deeper impact on a larger group of people, and I wonder if the hype of Pride and protests as a more traditional medium for change have biased the way we think about what activism means and what the goal "should" be for platform use.

[rizzo]

Cool, if it means nothing then let’s just never do anything, especially nothing to ever disturb sweet baby angel phil who apparently everybody knows saves the world in many areas in his spare time, and have celebrities constantly share about clothes and food and animals on social media, but nothing else, ever. That’s great. Fuck the metoo movement, fuck blm, fuck years of insistence and public pressure for marriage equality. We’re fine. How dare I demand a little statement to pay respect and be grateful that you get to choose how you live in 2019. I forgot normal rules never apply to magical deities dan and phil.
You don’t understand how it’s important that people of a group who are better off stand up for the less privileged of that group? Have you lived under a rock for the last 20 years?
I stg it’s almost creepy how dan and phil get away with anything here. (Except droughts. Those are unforgivable.)
Anyway, I’ve said all I had to say. Time to go back to the real world.

you are aware that pride extends beyond one single day in london right? and that phil posted a whole-ass coming out video addressing his position on the issue of lgbtq+ rights?

he didn't attend pride and he didn't tweet yesterday, but those actions don't negate every other day in phil's life. it just seems a bit silly to me to turn one 24-hour period against him.

he liked dan's tweet about pride. he tweeted today. he came out a week ago. he's done more than enough (if we're gonna pretend like there's a threshold of things you have to do as a gay person...) why does one single day so significantly affect your perception of him as a human being?

[Ataraxia25]

Cool, if it means nothing then let’s just never do anything, especially nothing to ever disturb sweet baby angel phil who apparently everybody knows saves the world in many areas in his spare time, and have celebrities constantly share about clothes and food and animals on social media, but nothing else, ever. That’s great. Fuck the metoo movement, fuck blm, fuck years of insistence and public pressure for marriage equality. We’re fine. How dare I demand a little statement to pay respect and be grateful that you get to choose how you live in 2019. I forgot normal rules never apply to magical deities dan and phil.
You don’t understand how it’s important that people of a group who are better off stand up for the less privileged of that group? Have you lived under a rock for the last 20 years?
I stg it’s almost creepy how dan and phil get away with anything here. (Except droughts. Those are unforgivable.)
Anyway, I’ve said all I had to say. Time to go back to the real world.

The problem here is that you literally want to police how Phil lives his queerness. You act like he's done nothing so far for the LGBTQ+ community and that is not true.