Dan & Phil Part 95: ASS (Aquarium Staff Seminar)

[madzilla84]

I don't think it was specifically the content of his tweets this time that people objected to (though some probably did for the reasons blueapple_x described), this topic comes up whenever he posts (and often in between).

Seeing as people have different feelings and opinions about this specific situation, about the topic in general and about Dan, there's never going to be a consensus; I think people just want their points of view to be heard and understood. But there's a tendency - as fancybum's post above describes - for people to interpret any criticism or frustration as "hate", or entitlement, which it certainly isn't, and dogpile those people. The reply I usually see of 'how dare you criticise him? You don't know what he's doing or going through? He doesn't owe you anything?' mostly just serves to shut down conversation, while also misunderstanding the points people are usually trying to make. (Which, on here at least, is *not* 'he sucks because he isn't uploading or posting updates every ten minutes', it's more exactly what Secretstanner says above; for me at least.)

[Templeofshame]

Unpopular opinion but I think a lot of us are just tired. It's been a year and a half and we rarely go more than a couple of months without having this conversation (on IDB or another platform). Everyone has valid feelings but there's nowhere productive to go with them because ultimately, what Dan does or doesn't do is gonna be what it is, and we're all going to individually have to deal with that or remove ourselves from the realm of caring. And pretty much any expressed feeling is going to get someone down or make them feel defensive, so it seems like a cycle of fans making each other feel bad even though it's born out of what I assume is a well-intentioned desire to just express feelings.

[Megancita75]

In other news, happy world emoji day:

[glitterintheair]

Everyone has valid feelings but there's nowhere productive to go with them because ultimately, what Dan does or doesn't do is gonna be what it is, and we're all going to individually have to deal with that or remove ourselves from the realm of caring.

That’s very true and I am choosing to deal with that by being passive aggressive, just like Dan taught me. *senpai* (just kidding lol... or am I???? )

[Megancita75]

And this reply is intriguing:

[Amiaw]

Phil’s last like And I don’t want to get my hopes up because the house emojis could be for any of his friends that just moved

[noodlebum]

The various animals intrigue me. And true, for one PJ just moved house and is doing DIY, but it's always fun to ponder any moving hints with these two!

[LAshleigh]

I love how very Phil those emojis are. The pigeon, the fish, fruity looking drink, pride flag, pizza...the houses are probably referencing PJ, but who knows?

[blueapple_x]

I don't think it was specifically the content of his tweets this time that people objected to (though some probably did for the reasons blueapple_x described), this topic comes up whenever he posts (and often in between).

Seeing as people have different feelings and opinions about this specific situation, about the topic in general and about Dan, there's never going to be a consensus; I think people just want their points of view to be heard and understood. But there's a tendency - as fancybum's post above describes - for people to interpret any criticism or frustration as "hate", or entitlement, which it certainly isn't, and dogpile those people. The reply I usually see of 'how dare you criticise him? You don't know what he's doing or going through? He doesn't owe you anything?' mostly just serves to shut down conversation, while also misunderstanding the points people are usually trying to make. (Which, on here at least, is *not* 'he sucks because he isn't uploading or posting updates every ten minutes', it's more exactly what Secretstanner says above; for me at least.)

Thanks for explaining! I realize it's a very common topic, I was mostly questioning how things switched from A to B, but after reading back I can see how the conversation steered that way now lol.

I agree with your post as well. The perspective of those who criticize Dan's lack of communication is often misunderstood or (purposely or not) made into a straw man argument every time the topic gets brought up.

[alittledizzy]

Listen, there’s no ~negativity allowed here. You can only be happy for everything to do with Dan or be politely asked to leave (ie. ~step away uwu~) or else keep your thoughts/eNtiTleMeNt to yourself. Or, you know, get piled on for having the audacity to feel things differently than those who are perfectly happy with 1 tweet in a year (because they’re better and more rational people than those who feel negativity or sadness, obviously). If you’re not perfectly content with the years-long pattern of blatant rejection and neglect (and y’know, simply wish it had been different, that’s literally all) then clearly you’re a monster lol. Oh well.

No one is being disallowed from being negative. This is very clear in that the majority of content on this forum now is discussion about Dan and people's reasons for being mad at him. No one is saying anyone is better or more rational. No one is saying negativity and sadness aren't valid feelings. Those are, again, the majority of posts being made on this forum right now. They are very obviously allowed.

[fancybum]

Listen, there’s no ~negativity allowed here. You can only be happy for everything to do with Dan or be politely asked to leave (ie. ~step away uwu~) or else keep your thoughts/eNtiTleMeNt to yourself. Or, you know, get piled on for having the audacity to feel things differently than those who are perfectly happy with 1 tweet in a year (because they’re better and more rational people than those who feel negativity or sadness, obviously). If you’re not perfectly content with the years-long pattern of blatant rejection and neglect (and y’know, simply wish it had been different, that’s literally all) then clearly you’re a monster lol. Oh well.

No one is being disallowed from being negative. This is very clear in that the majority of content on this forum now is discussion about Dan and people's reasons for being mad at him. No one is saying anyone is better or more rational. No one is saying negativity and sadness aren't valid feelings. Those are, again, the majority of posts being made on this forum right now. They are very obviously allowed.

Well I guess in addition to being entitled and irrational, I also cannot read, sorry, my mistake.

[Catallena]

Y'all are too hard on each other. Why is it that my fave comatose kpop girl group's fandom is significantly more harmonious than you lovely people? Do you know how dramatic and awful kpop fans can be?? DO YOU???

I express negative opinions on here all the time and have done so since I first became a member here. Some of my old posts are salty af. And while I know that won't always be appreciated by other users and that it might sometimes put me at odds with someone I consider a friend, I do not feel like I'm not allowed to be negative on here. I don't always agree with @alittledizzy, but I still enjoy her posts and admire her outlook on the whole thing. She keeps me grounded lol. And I don't want to form a clique with other people I might agree with more, just to circle jerk over how mad and frustrated we are. That's not what I signed up for.

Everyone is absolutely welcome to express their opinions, that's not the issue here. What's going wrong is that some don't respect the opinions of others. Remember, you have the choice to engage further or ignore it. I do it all the time, so do what's best for you. But don't be shady on Twitter or Tumblr when someone says something you don't like, that's ugly and not fun for anyone. A little bit of empathy goes a long way, and that goes for both sides.

Last, but not least.





Anyway, I'm fascinated by the house emojis Phil has used. It doesn't have to mean anything, but I've also literally never seen anyone use the house emoji outside of moving plans. Back to Moving Hill we go

[liola]

Look, Idk. Sometimes it does feel like you can't be critical without people piling up on you, but there has never been a time where it was said "this opinion cannot be said". And I'm probably one of the most Negative About Dan™ people in here (still don't think opinions should have bias but I'll accept this divide of positive vs negative at this point)

IDB is thankfully a place where a discussion can be had without too many attacks, contrary to tumblr or Twitter (see me getting harassed for a sarcastic tweet about Dan's lately tweet). But it can't be denied that most people cannot accept anyone being rightfully critical of Dan especially without trying to jump to his defense which is.. not great? It's not like opinions can be changed that easily.

Anyway, I'm ringing the bells of Moving Hill to call everyone to gather, I'm Looking at those house emojis and Thinking.

[Phanshy]

I don't think it's entitled to want some kind of message saying I'm taking a social media break because of his mental health, because it helps his creative process or just because he feels happier without it. (I'm taking a the beginning of this not now.)
The issue for me isn't him changing his relationship with the audience, it's not telling us about the change, you can't expect people to change their expectations if they weren't told they needed to.

I didn't like the tweet to be honest, especially knowing Dan doesn't just tweet off the cuff and the fact he decided to came back with that didn't hit right to me, but as I've said before I'm not a fan of Twitter Dan at the best of times, his tweets either make me sigh, cringe or roll my eyes, so it was probably never gonna be my thing anyway.
Personally I didn't have any kind of negative feelings towards Dan until the merch thing, yes I was sad about the gaming channel "hiatus" and I missed him but I could understand it, after things started quieting down after BIG I could understand because it was such a big thing for him personally and made a big splash outside of his usual audience. He shared way more in Japan than I expected and it was such a great time, it feels like a lifetime ago but it reminded me so much of the old days in the phandom, that I think we all miss even people who don't have any issue with Dan and how he's interacting with us now.
I haven't been able to get rid of the bad taste that the merch drop left, probably because it made me feel a fool when he posted on Instagram I was just excited and bought in to the idea that he'd post when he went somewhere worth sharing and that wasn't to personal, when I saw people speculating that he was going to release merch I didn't believe it mostly because I didn't want that kind of relationship from him, I guess you could say it made me take my rose coloured glasses off and his Tumblr explanation left me cold too, since then I've just generally been disappointed with how things have gone minus a few moments of joy.
I know it sounds like I'm completely trashing Dan for something so minor and insignificant I really don't mean to but it's hard when you're so invested in someone and to a certain extent hold them to a higher standard because of how connected you feel.
I wish I wasn't sitting around feeling negative about silly things and could either be like the people who are completely understanding and are happily waiting for Dan to release his project or the people who have decided that this isn't the Dan they signed up for and have checked out, even if just temporarily until he does something they want to engage in, it's not fun being sad or disappointed by something that use to bring happiness in to your life.
I think we can all voice how we feel about it without trying to invalidate other people's feelings.

[rizzo]

Anyway, I'm fascinated by the house emojis Phil has used. It doesn't have to mean anything, but I've also literally never seen anyone use the house emoji outside of moving plans. Back to Moving Hill we go

I'd put money on those house emojis being primarily to Bryony, who's moving/remodeling a house at the moment.

But, I'm with you on the climb back up to moving hill. It's all I've got to keep me going.

[Morganaa]

I said that before in an older thread - im done with him completely. Mental health issues? Mhm, for half a year. Secret project? Still, he keeps repeating that over and over again like a broken record. Alll he did so far was kept disappearing and magically coming back when he needs money. Right now, the vibe he gives off is like he said "fuck off and leave me alone. Oh, but buy my merch first so i can go on a fancy vacation". This fandom is extremely patieng im gonna say - but nothing is infinite . A LOT of people are pissed and left, the rest will leave too if he keeps behaving like that. And honestly, i dont even believe he has any "project" going on that keeps him so too busy to make an update. He is basically behaving like he doesnt care about is audience at all. And thats why i left - he doesnt owe me anything and i dont either i just ran out of patience.
Also, i dint trust in what he's saying because we were fed lies from both on them many times.

Here. You can take my head off for negativity, but arguments like mental issues, projects aint doing it fot me. He want a break, he shoul say he want a break. If he's done, he should say he's done. But for fucks sake, leaving people hanging for year and a half, not addressing any of these questions is the dumbest thing you can do, unless he really had some project.
And about those tweets. Jesus, they seem like he learned how to write yesterday. No punctuation, and wrong spelling of even pretty simple words. I aint no language police, but if you put something for people to see, at least make it readable and presentable.

[Becky.rigby]

I said that before in an older thread - im done with him completely. Mental health issues? Mhm, for half a year. Secret project? Still, he keeps repeating that over and over again like a broken record. Alll he did so far was kept disappearing and magically coming back when he needs money. Right now, the vibe he gives off is like he said "fuck off and leave me alone. Oh, but buy my merch first so i can go on a fancy vacation". This fandom is extremely patieng im gonna say - but nothing is infinite . A LOT of people are pissed and left, the rest will leave too if he keeps behaving like that. And honestly, i dont even believe he has any "project" going on that keeps him so too busy to make an update. He is basically behaving like he doesnt care about is audience at all. And thats why i left - he doesnt owe me anything and i dont either i just ran out of patience.
Also, i dint trust in what he's saying because we were fed lies from both on them many times.

Here. You can take my head off for negativity, but arguments like mental issues, projects aint doing it fot me. He want a break, he shoul say he want a break. If he's done, he should say he's done. But for fucks sake, leaving people hanging for year and a half, not addressing any of these questions is the dumbest thing you can do, unless he really had some project.
And about those tweets. Jesus, they seem like he learned how to write yesterday. No punctuation, and wrong spelling of even pretty simple words. I aint no language police, but if you put something for people to see, at least make it readable and presentable.

I agree with what you said :/ unfortunately. I wish things were different, and yeah Dan doesn’t owe us anything at all but when things have just changed, we had regular communication with live shows etc and were told nothing much was going to change during the last joint liveshow. I know things could have changed since then, but that is why he should have communicated with us. I have started moving on finally and slowly by watching other youtubers and I have started cross stitching. I’m not going to wait around forever for someone that doesn’t care to be honest and he needs to remember he wouldn’t be where he would today if it wasn’t for the people like us that supported him. If he can’t be bothered to communicate, then neither can I. And after a month without even a tweet with no explanation, when your job is to be an INFLUENCER is not ok. I’m a veterinary nurse and I wouldn’t be able to go a month without communicating with work, people seem to forget that this is his job. Sorry now I’m just waffling. He can do what he wants and so can we.

[BrothAndBrine]

I don't put any stock in that emoji post. My recently used emojis right now consist of a random face I just decided to send once to someone and a bunch of the emojis I've used, but certainly are not frequent. Phil could have just been sending a text from the other room saying the house across the street was having construction work done on it. But, also, a couple of the emojis in my personal list are frequently used!

And with Dan, it's just so simple for me - he's not uploading; k, great; whatev. The world is full of things to watch/do, even now.

[LAshleigh]

So, off topic, but I've never seen Interactive Introverts and I was thinking about buying it to watch this weekend? I'm a little bit worried, though, because I saw Danny & Drew's tour in person and didn't think it was funny, despite enjoying both of their YouTube content. Will ii be the same, or does it have a similar vibe to dnp's YouTube content? I don't know what exactly it was about Danny & Drew's show that I disliked, I just didn't think it was super funny.

[Susanisnotafish]

I, for one , absolutely loved Dan’s tweet. It was wonderful reassurance he is still our Dan. He validates my extreme introversion by being so shameless (even if it’s probably his usual hyperbole). It’s also classic comedy to start a comment leading one way and then end it with an “unexpected “ twist. He fancies himself a comedian after all. I read a wonderful fan fic about Dan writing a non-fiction book (well the majority was smut, but that theme was in their somewhere) and I still cling to to that over a comedy show.

XAshleighx I loved Interactive Introverts. It’s a lot like their channels (mostly their joint content, obviously).

[moonanonymous]

So, off topic, but I've never seen Interactive Introverts and I was thinking about buying it to watch this weekend? I'm a little bit worried, though, because I saw Danny & Drew's tour in person and didn't think it was funny, despite enjoying both of their YouTube content. Will ii be the same, or does it have a similar vibe to dnp's YouTube content? I don't know what exactly it was about Danny & Drew's show that I disliked, I just didn't think it was super funny.

From someone that saw it in person -- I don't think it'd be worth a purchase tbh, the enjoyment I got out of it was definitely 90% gleaned from just being in the same room as them. There were a couple fun moments (especially the very ending!) but mostly it was just kind of the planned over-acting that was pretty reminiscent of tatinof. I think it'd be fun to watch if you can pirate it anywhere lmao but I wouldn't spend that much $$

[moonanonymous]

Also off-topic but damn I can't believe we're still on Aquarium Staff Seminar -- that feels like it was 10 years ago!

[Birdie]

I can't say I've ever felt like I wasn't allowed to voice critical opinions but I do get wary of people coming at me to explain to me why I shouldn't be so critical or why I should cut Dan some slack. It always feels like y'all think I don't understand the situation when it's just that we're all familiar with the situation but we have different reactions to it. For some it's okay to not hear from Dan often and to not have gotten an official announcement of his "break", for others it's not and both are understandable and valid reactions to being basically left on read by a creator you look(ed) up to and support(ed).

I didn't like Dan's tweet much but then I don't like his current branding anyways. He's made negativity his selling point which I don't find appealing (and frankly a weird choice on his part, considering his mental health activism). I guess to some he's this #relatable post-emo introvert now, for others it just seems too dark and too negative, especially in today's political and social climate.

I can only repeat what I've been saying since the end of 2018: I wish Dan would speak to us and make us part of whatever he's working on, since we're who he's going to want to sell it to eventually and all. He's chosen not to and that makes me unhappy but it's whatever at this point.

[lefthandedism]

I didn't like Dan's tweet much but then I don't like his current branding anyways. He's made negativity his selling point which I don't find appealing (and frankly a weird choice on his part, considering his mental health activism). I guess to some he's this #relatable post-emo introvert now, for others it just seems too dark and too negative, especially in today's political and social climate.

I think you've captured part of how I feel perfectly! While the tweet itself was personally hurtful and left a sour taste in my mouth for a minute, it wasn't really that big of a deal--hardly devastating. And I know Dan's humor is often negative and has strayed to the edge of being a little mean before--and there are plenty of people who find that sort of humor funny. But it does seem tone-deaf, both in its insensitivity to the hard time a huge swath of his audience (and the world) is having, and in its negative portrayal of introverts. Yes, most introverts are more comfortable staying in than going out a lot of the time, but that doesn't mean most introverts hate other people (and I'd wager most introverts, like anyone else, would love to have their own person at home with them).

[bluecaterpillar]

So, off topic, but I've never seen Interactive Introverts and I was thinking about buying it to watch this weekend? I'm a little bit worried, though, because I saw Danny & Drew's tour in person and didn't think it was funny, despite enjoying both of their YouTube content. Will ii be the same, or does it have a similar vibe to dnp's YouTube content? I don't know what exactly it was about Danny & Drew's show that I disliked, I just didn't think it was super funny.

as someone who never saw ii live i thought the dvd was worth the money. especially since with the dvd you get the director's commentary on top of the actual stage show and that was golden. i disagree that it was over-acted, i found them to be much more natural onstage in ii than in tatinof.