Dan & Phil Part 8: Clickedy-dick

[pearshaped34]

I also don't understand why it's such a popular theory that Dan's parents wouldn't be accepting of him. From what he's said about them being young parents, one of them a Philosophy student, the other one working on film sets, they sound like they would be liberal and not exactly condemning of homosexuality. I don't understand where this come from. I just think he's not super close to them like Phil is to his parents.

I've always assumed the reason that's such a popular theory is because the excuse that gets Dan most off the hook for his behaviour in 2012 is that he was terrified his horrible homophobic family would figure out he was gay and with Phil.

If you read the stuff Dan posted back then thinking his a terrified closet case trying to hide the truth because he knows his family won't accept him you feel sorry for him. You read it from pretty much any other perspective and he comes across like an grade A douche.

Just to disclaimer I personally don't know anything about Dan's family so maybe he is gay and felt he had to hide from them as they would not have been accepting, I'm not saying this theory has to be untrue. Just that I personally think the main reason it took off in the Phandom is because it's a conveniently good explanation to get Dan somewhat off the hook for his 2012 borderline homophobic rants.

[jaej]

i was my most involved in the phandom in 2012-2013 and really it didn't feel like some horrible hellhole. tbh it was one of the best times. but the phandom was growing really quickly and was awful and there was always private stuff (like photos of dan aged 15 taken from friends pages) and people still bitter about dan overtaking phil in subs and i didn't blame him at all for trying to stop it. someone had to, and the more he was ignored the angrier he got me the more aggressive the posts were. and if you read the ~homophobic~ posts from the pov of a bi person being told "OMG ITS SO OBVIOUS THAT YOURE GAY OMG WHY ARE YOU LYING WE KNOWWW YOU DONT LIKE GIRLS" then it made sense imo.
ive never seen the horribly tense situation with his parents tbh. he may not feel he had the best upbringing but he also said he got on with them fine. they weren't bad people, clearly. maybe just not quite ready when he was younger. imo his parents would have either found out 2009/2011 or it was clear enough that they didn't have to. families can be helpful, functioning and accepting without being like phils. they're not a standard everyone else needs to be held to

[tymyky]

i was my most involved in the phandom in 2012-2013 and really it didn't feel like some horrible hellhole. tbh it was one of the best times. but the phandom was growing really quickly and was awful and there was always private stuff (like photos of dan aged 15 taken from friends pages) and people still bitter about dan overtaking phil in subs and i didn't blame him at all for trying to stop it. someone had to, and the more he was ignored the angrier he got me the more aggressive the posts were. and if you read the ~homophobic~ posts from the pov of a bi person being told "OMG ITS SO OBVIOUS THAT YOURE GAY OMG WHY ARE YOU LYING WE KNOWWW YOU DONT LIKE GIRLS" then it made sense imo.

I coudn't agree more. I was also an invested fan during that time but I never had that feeling that it was "the dark ages" as some people like to call 2012 now. I was on tumblr but I wasn't looking through the phan tags because I was kinda busy at that time (finishing high school, first uni year) and when some of Dan's post showed up on my dash I read them and was kinda sympathizing and agreeing with them (not all of them) even though they were sometimes rude. That boy had to put up with a lot of shit. Could you imagine what it must be like if you have a group of stalkers who call themselves your fans digging old photos of you and stalking your friends' social media accounts? Oh boy I would have snapped.
That time was golden ages content wise though. We got videos every week, liveshows where they everytime got the other one join in at the end and then the weekly radio shows started, the drama in phandom kinda died down and it's all rainbows and unicorns till now.

[spider]

I've always assumed the reason that's such a popular theory is because the excuse that gets Dan most off the hook for his behaviour in 2012 is that he was terrified his horrible homophobic family would figure out he was gay and with Phil.

If you read the stuff Dan posted back then thinking his a terrified closet case trying to hide the truth because he knows his family won't accept him you feel sorry for him. You read it from pretty much any other perspective and he comes across like an grade A douche.

The part about the phandom makes sense but the 2nd part is too narrow. There are a lot of 'closet' situations that could have made him act like that. He was coping with his growing fame and not sure of his future career. Not to mention adjusting to his new environment since he and Phil just moved to London which probably affected their relationship at least a little bit. Maybe his family even knew but he was in the closet to his increasing subscribers and new co workers and bosses at the BBC and new Youtube acquaintances.

To say being closeted from his family was the only reason that wouldn't make him a 'grade A douche' is not considering anything besides phan and the expectation that his family wouldn't accept it. It doesn't include anything else that we know was going on in his life or the behind the scenes things we don't know.

In your 2nd paragraph I don't know if you're just repeating what the phandom thought or really believe it so maybe I didn't read it right. But anyways it seems worth a response.

[coffee pig]

and if you read the ~homophobic~ posts from the pov of a bi person being told "OMG ITS SO OBVIOUS THAT YOURE GAY OMG WHY ARE YOU LYING WE KNOWWW YOU DONT LIKE GIRLS" then it made sense imo.
ive never seen the horribly tense situation with his parents tbh. he may not feel he had the best upbringing but he also said he got on with them fine. they weren't bad people, clearly. maybe just not quite ready when he was younger. imo his parents would have either found out 2009/2011 or it was clear enough that they didn't have to. families can be helpful, functioning and accepting without being like phils. they're not a standard everyone else needs to be held to

I agree so much with all of this, especially the first bit. Admittedly, this is not how I interpreted the situation back in 2012, and a lot of his comments like ''I don't want to be seen as Tyler Oakley's gay friend'' rubbed me the wrong way, and I nearly unstanned until Dan started to calm his tits a bit. I believed him, naively, when he said he had lied about being bisexual for attention and as a baby bi who was struggling to come out of the closet myself, that annoyed me quite a bit as well. I wasn't as invested in as I am now, which is why I let it slide.

[Lurktacularr]

Oqua you are a dream, as always

I've always (and continue to, after that time snippet) interpreted Dan during that time as being backed into a corner - like he had his little trained circus lion [irony] that was cute and did what he said for a while... then it grew and got a bit wilder and stopped listening so much and backed him into a corner. So he started trying to crack the whip at it, inevitably creating a bit of tension between them but in a kind of necessary way.

I don't know his parents necessarily come into it. Just to project for a minute - when I was 17 I started dating my (now ex) girlfriend who had been my best friend beforehand. I told my parents but they already knew, it was obvious. Dan may not have been particularly close to his parents when he was 18 but I think you'd have to be pretty naive to not realise something's going on when your son suddenly starts picking up and taking 3 hour train journeys to stay with a guy he met online for days on end on a regular basis. So regardless of their ability to work the internet or know of the shipping, I'd say they probably knew something was going on from very early on. My parents certainly did.

I think he was backed into a corner over several things - wanting to keep their relationship private (from their audience, not from family), trying to keep his family from being harassed, trying to stop people stalking his pre-youtube life. Basically the phandom seemed to get a bit big for its boots once it gained traction and started taking liberties which Dan felt the need to put a stop to.

Add in the fact he was very young, was going through a lot of life changes, and internet fame was a relatively new concept, and you end up with that godforsaken customerservicedepartment blog. I can't blame him, for reasons just stated, but jfc I'm glad that was put to bed.

Anyway tl;dr Dan was young and in a tight spot so I can't find it in myself to think of him as a douchebag even in 2012. I feel for him, if anything. And lets take a moment to appreciate how well-adjusted he is now, because that shit could have permanently derailed a lot of people. Well done Daniel

[spider]

Lurktacularr my unhappiness about not having a thanks button grows every time you post. Instead I have to be satisfied with nodding at the monitor like you can see me agreeing with you through this website.

[coffee pig]

:thanks: Lurktacularr my unhappiness about not having a thanks button grows every time you post. Instead I have to be satisfied with nodding at the monitor like you can see me agreeing with you through this website.

Seconded.

[Lurktacularr]

:thanks: Lurktacularr my unhappiness about not having a thanks button grows every time you post. Instead I have to be satisfied with nodding at the monitor like you can see me agreeing with you through this website.

Seconded.

Naww thanks chaps

[Sakura Selfie]

Reading the 2012 stuff is fascinating to me because I've seen references to it being the worst year etc and didn't really know why. From my point of view as a Middle Aged nose pervert it seems like the rantings of someone who is very young, confused and probably scared, which is a bad combination because it leads to aggression and defensiveness. I think it's easy to forget that he's barely in his 20s at that point, he's possibly in a relationship with someone who is older than him and much more grounded/secure than he is but he has to keep it secret for whatever reason and let's face it relationships take work when they're public let alone when you have to be hyper aware of hiding it, and his career is taking off and he was probably scared at how quickly that happened as at least Phil grew his over time whilst dans seemed to grow fairly quickly. The issue with being in the public eye is that people get to watch you grow up and your past indiscretions are documented for all to see, I'd be mortified if my teenage/early 20s mistakes were broadcast for all to see,let alone if thousands of people constantly analyse them looking for clues. Saying that, as I said I found it fascinating so I guess I'm just a giant hypocrite

[Sakura Selfie]

Ps the delia edits are hilarious, the thought of her bopping around a kitchen whisking pancake batter whilst humming ass and titties has just made me laugh my arse off

[DryCereal]

Oh Philly. Bad start to the day!!

[alittledizzy]

Oh Philly. Bad start to the day!!

things that should be banned from mentions if they don't want me to think they're robots:
- cereal
- pancakes
- falling of a stage
- motion sickness
- haha i went outside
- american eagles
- funny quirky dream i had last night but no further details or analysing myself
- how we're trash and we hope you don't want a refund for watching our flop messes
- fighting over beds/screens/bathrooms/food like you're 12 year old brothers

I want to make this a bingo game now. We can already check 'cereal' off.

[Catallena]

It's funny how the current Phandom is scared of the 'dark times' of 2012!Dan, when fans were just as responsible for the environment back then. The 2012 Phandom was a bit mad. Though also very amusing. Never a dull moment. Seriously though, shitstorms about nothing like with that text post drama. People flipping their shit when someone tagged Phan stuff on the main tags because they would be able to see it and Deppy had to be protected from those evil shippers!!!111one. The witch hunt against people who shipped it, causing people to put 'THIS IS NOT A PHAN IZ REEL BLOG' in big fat letters in their bio. Phan shippers going 'underground' (kids here's a tip: there's no such thing as going underground on Tumblr it's a public website) while anti-Phan shippers guilt tripped everyone into thinking they were the cause of the world being set to end that year. Who needs a Maya calender if you have a crazy invested fanbase? People are more chill now.

I don't really blame Dan for stuff he said/did in 2012, like I'm not excusing his behavior nor am I saying I agreed with him because I do get annoyed when I see a screenshot from the CSD blog or old liveshows with Phil where he's complaining about sitting too close. But he doesn't do say shit like that anymore, nor does he write long text posts addressing ~drama~ going on. He chilled out, and the Phandom chilled out a bit as well. So it's all good now, that's what's most important. He was kinda terrified of his own suddenly growing fanbase digging shit up like every day and probably annoyed at his fanbase devolving into 1D fangirl level. Like in 2012 he was kinda lumped in with other rising British vloggers like the Harries twins, who had personalities blander than a piece of cardboard and were more shallow than a kids pool, and his video with them did bring in a crowd who Dan wasn't really aiming for and who really didn't understand his sense of humor and sarcasm. It's beyond me how someone could be into Dan and not understand sarcasm but it's surprisingly common. Plus he was obviously worried about dropping out uni for real this time, chasing some crazy internet fame dream in London, hoping to get picked up by the BBC (and not getting fired lol) so I get it. He was stressed, and he's not that pleasant while stressed. Fair enough, neither am I. And I don't even have to deal with half the shit he did.

[majitzu]

I need to stop finding ways to avoid studying... but here you go

[akui]

I'd have thought it was obvious why Dan's parents disapprove of Phil... That strange older internet could-be-an-axe-wielding-maniac guy who lured their son up north then made him give up his dreams of being a mildly-successful legal something or other..!

I'm not sure if you are joking or not but i think it's possible that Dan's parents disapprove his career choice and partially blame it on Phil. One's angel bean can be another's evil bun.

But i don't think Dan's parents are homophobic or anything, but there are other reasons that his parents might not be 100% happy for him.

But idk it's just a guess.

And the other reason is that he himself doesn't want to share his life with his parents. Some ppl grown up don't really close with their parents so they don't want to share more than necessary, they just visit their parents on holidays but never really get involved in each other's life. (Me, for example, I'm really not close to my mother, I'm a boring straight person, but i think if i am a queer i wouldn't come out to my mum unless i decide to marry someone, it just seems really unnecessary. I'm projecting ignore me.)

[spaceguitar]

There definitely seemed to be something about Dan's 2012 crisis sexuality related, from what I've seen. Things like not wanting to be 'Tyler Oakley's gay friend', or him suggesting that he was straight, saying things like 'I don't date men'. Or the comment about not being comfortable enough with his sexuality to paint his nails. He also said things suggesting the shipping would ruin his reputation.
Tldr: Dan had every right to be upset about what was happening with out sexuality coming into play, but to me i always seems that 2012 was sexuality (and exposure) related.

[akui]

I need to stop finding ways to avoid studying... but here you go

Are you forgetting something…?

[spaceguitar]

I'd have thought it was obvious why Dan's parents disapprove of Phil... That strange older internet could-be-an-axe-wielding-maniac guy who lured their son up north then made him give up his dreams of being a mildly-successful legal something or other..!

I'm not sure if you are joking or not but i think it's possible that Dan's parents disapprove his career choice and partially blame it on Phil. One's angel bean can be another's evil bun.

But i don't think Dan's parents are homophobic or anything, but there are other reasons that his parents might not be 100% happy for him.

But idk it's just a guess.

And the other reason is that he himself doesn't want to share his life with his parents. Some ppl grown up don't really close with their parents so they don't want to share more than necessary, they just visit their parents on holidays but never really get involved in each other's life. (Me, for example, I'm really not close to my mother, I'm a boring straight person, but i think if i am a queer i wouldn't come out to my mum unless i decide to marry someone, it just seems really unnecessary. I'm projecting ignore me.)

The enigma about this is that Dan said that when he told him mom he was dropping out of law school, she was like 'whatever'. His parents don't seem the hardcore studious working types. So why his relationship with his parents is seemingly shaky is up to anyone's interpretation. Personally, i think it seems that Dan holds more of a grudge for his parents not really paying attention to him. Maybe this just really negatively impacted his childhood, and he still minds their aloof-ness. A lot of his comments, like 'you write a book and suddenly parents care' support this. Why they are like this is still a mystery though.

[DryCereal]

I'd have thought it was obvious why Dan's parents disapprove of Phil... That strange older internet could-be-an-axe-wielding-maniac guy who lured their son up north then made him give up his dreams of being a mildly-successful legal something or other..!

I'm not sure if you are joking or not but i think it's possible that Dan's parents disapprove his career choice and partially blame it on Phil. One's angel bean can be another's evil bun.

Yes and no. It's funny nowadays, (if they really disapproved, I don't think they'd have been at TATINOF f'r instance, plus Dan's spent a fair amount of time with his family in between UK & USA tours) but it probably wouldn't have been at all funny in 2010-12...

[pearshaped34]

The part about the phandom makes sense but the 2nd part is too narrow. There are a lot of 'closet' situations that could have made him act like that. He was coping with his growing fame and not sure of his future career. Not to mention adjusting to his new environment since he and Phil just moved to London which probably affected their relationship at least a little bit. Maybe his family even knew but he was in the closet to his increasing subscribers and new co workers and bosses at the BBC and new Youtube acquaintances.
To say being closeted from his family was the only reason that wouldn't make him a 'grade A douche' is not considering anything besides phan and the expectation that his family wouldn't accept it. It doesn't include anything else that we know was going on in his life or the behind the scenes things we don't know.
In your 2nd paragraph I don't know if you're just repeating what the phandom thought or really believe it so maybe I didn't read it right. But anyways it seems worth a response.

[/quote]

You are very right, there are other valid excuses for why he behaved that way that could be applied and my post was rather narrow so sorry for that.

As for what I personally think on the whole situation my opinion on Dan's behaviour back then is he was acting like a grade a douche lol. But he was young and human and a good portion of his fanbase are massively invasive and annoying so ultimately I'm okay with letting it go and I don't hold that stuff against him now.

I often see people say things like they'd unstan if it turns out Dan is really straight because they wouldn't forgive him for the stuff he said back then if the excuses they've applied to his behaviour turn out not to be real whereas I don't feel that way. Regardless of whether he is really gay, straight or bi or if he is really Phil's boyfriend or just his best friend I've forgiven that stuff. I don't think it was okay but I don't think he needs to be condemned forever for it either.

So I guess my opinion is I'm okay with acknowledging he acted like a douche and letting it go I don't need to justify it with a list of reasons that may or may not be real that let him off the hook for his own choices.

[majitzu]

Are you forgetting something…?

Nope, this is Phil's bingo

[Lucet]

If he had any problems with his family, I would believe the main reason was his brother, who was a minor when the phandom exploded and the boy started getting harassed online (with the probability of offline harassment (school etc) as well). Lesters had it easier as both their sons were grownups when all of this fame happened.
I don't think Howell family are homophobic at all. I don't think it was all about Dan's sexuality. I mean, even in his draw my life he portrayed himself as a happy child, so his parents must have done something right. They just probably overlooked the bullying in school.
I am sure they weren't really supportive then, that was the problem, probably they said to him to sort his life out (as he just took a year out and eventually dropped out). The social media and youtube was only on the rise and imagine how hard it was for the parents to understand the concept of it being a literal job that pays. Nobody knew. So, Dan being scared about his future, being unsure about his YT career and remembering all the stupid things that he did 2-3 years ago that might affect his future, started acting vile towards his growing fandom and their invasiveness towards his personal life. Because "once you put it on the internet, it's there forever". I believe the shipping did strain their relationship either as friends or a couple.

What year did they get under their management?

[akui]

I'd have thought it was obvious why Dan's parents disapprove of Phil... That strange older internet could-be-an-axe-wielding-maniac guy who lured their son up north then made him give up his dreams of being a mildly-successful legal something or other..!

I'm not sure if you are joking or not but i think it's possible that Dan's parents disapprove his career choice and partially blame it on Phil. One's angel bean can be another's evil bun.

Yes and no. It's funny nowadays, (if they really disapproved, I don't think they'd have been at TATINOF f'r instance, plus Dan's spent a fair amount of time with his family in between UK & USA tours) but it probably wouldn't have been at all funny in 2010-12...

Idk but i feel like there's more of a daddy issue than mummy issue. You know how some dads are just… shitty. (No offense to all dads, I'm sure most of you are good dads.)

Are you forgetting something…?

Nope, this is Phil's bingo

OKay now i can't even tell the difference between Dan and Phil.

[pearshaped34]

It's funny how the current Phandom is scared of the 'dark times' of 2012!Dan, when fans were just as responsible for the environment back then. The 2012 Phandom was a bit mad. Though also very amusing. Never a dull moment. Seriously though, shitstorms about nothing like with that text post drama. People flipping their shit when someone tagged Phan stuff on the main tags because they would be able to see it and Deppy had to be protected from those evil shippers!!!111one. The witch hunt against people who shipped it, causing people to put 'THIS IS NOT A PHAN IZ REEL BLOG' in big fat letters in their bio. Phan shippers going 'underground' (kids here's a tip: there's no such thing as going underground on Tumblr it's a public website) while anti-Phan shippers guilt tripped everyone into thinking they were the cause of the world being set to end that year. Who needs a Maya calender if you have a crazy invested fanbase? People are more chill now.

I'd say the biggest problem with the current Tumblr Phandom is their need to constantly self-police in fear the dark times will return.

It's like you go into the tags and don't see anyone posting the v-day video but yet you'll still see five posts about why people shouldn't be posting and talking about the V-day video.
I'm not saying no one ever talks about it in the tags or that it doesn't sometimes get uploaded there but for every one person posting about it there are ten people with really lengthy text posts telling them off about it.

And they are like that with anything not just Voldy. Take the Hazel thing, I personally didn't see a single negative reaction to her calling Phil bae and yet I saw so many posts lecturing about why the fans needed to be respectful to Hazel if it showed up on my own dash I just started unfollowing whoever posted it.

I don't get why people don't seem to get the constant policing of bad behaviour doesn't do anything to make it go away it just draws more attention to it and is kind of equally cringe.