Dan & Phil Part 11: Kinda queer and terrible #ComeTogether

danphil333 · Mon May 16, 2016 8:36 pm

Ticia wrote:
This is how you should tweet, Philip.

phil tweets daily about his breakfast and dan once a week about his uber/cab adventures
at least phil stays true to his brand while dan steals phils brand(awkward encounters) like the copycat he is

. maybe he finally realized his own brand is ugly af and is taking notes from his master.

the new alfie deyes:

the lack of creativity and originality of some youtubers is unreal

Stakhanov · Mon May 16, 2016 8:40 pm

@gnostic He runs a tight ship, but I don't think that what he does is that unique. There are other media personalities who keep their private life private and are not really noticeable except for the sort of content they produce. Also, youtube personalities have a few advantages in this regard: complete creative control over what they put out and they fly under the radar of much of the traditional media - so a lot less of pressure to give public opinions or get some nosy paparazzi.
It shows that Phil has a master's degree in video production and he's good at just doing his thing, but 'his thing' has evolved too. When i watch his early vids, you can see more of his personality shine through and things are much less redacted.

spaceguitar · Mon May 16, 2016 8:51 pm

danphil333 wrote:
Ticia wrote:
This is how you should tweet, Philip.
phil tweets daily about his breakfast and dan once a week about his uber/cab adventures
at least phil stays true to his brand while dan steals phils brand(awkward encounters) like the copycat he is . maybe he finally realized his own brand is ugly af and is taking notes from his master.

the new alfie deyes:
the lack of creativity and originality of some youtubers is unreal

Oh no, Dan is tweeting about people that he is interacting with while he is on tour in America. What a sell out, keeping us updated on interesting experiences that he has.
Also, true, its not really his brand. I like that he knows how to break out of his brand.

phamnotof · Mon May 16, 2016 8:53 pm

I love the conversation being had right now about the relatioship between creators who are not much more than distant colleagues but are expxected to have opinions on each other due to the weird way that the YT culture has been set up. To me, that's always been utterly fascinating, the way these hundereds and hundereds of creators with a wide range of interests and content are expected to form friendship based on, you know, momentary proximity and audience overlap. But it's a thing, and I do think that we are able to tell these interactions apart. I don't want to dismiss the idea that some creators might choose not to be critical of D&P because they don't want the unnecessary drama that might come with some of the most enthused fans. I think that's a valid point, but it's certainly not all there's to the story. Especially since we've absolutely had creators being critical of them in the past (Emma Blackery's attacks & Evan Endiger's childish WHY DON'T THEY LIKE ME outbursts come to mind as the most commonly talked about) - but that's not what I wanna talk about.

I really, really don't buy into the idea that there aren't reasons to respect them for creators who haven't had much personal interaction with them. I wanna pull up this lovely quote from Hank Green's tumblr real quick - he was asked about what he thinks of the D&P fandom:

It’s one of the most involved, active, supportive, enthusiastic, and connected fandoms I’ve ever come across. I like Dan and Phil’s content a lot, but their community is the most interesting thing they’re a part of.

source: http://edwardspoonhands.com/post/143964 ... hil-fandom

Now, he did not have to say that. He had no drama to clear up, he's not a YTer known for craving attention or click-baiting, it's an anonymous message sent to him on a Tumblr where he gets hundereds of asks per a day. So I can pretty confidently say that it's a genuine answer.

And the thing is, extremely involved, active, supportive, enthusiastic, and connected fandoms - those don't grow on trees. They're what even some of the most viewed YouTubers crave. They're the people fuelling your career along, they're the people making you trend on Twitter, they're the people buying your merch - but most of all, they're your community. And the organic way that D&P have managed to build one of the most dedicated, enthusiastic and involved communities on YT - that's something to marvel at. Whether it was pure luck, satanic hamster sacrifices, business savvy we'll never be able to comprehend or a weird combination of all of those and more, we may very well never know. But somehow, they got there. And it's both ultimate YTers goals & a very satisfying thing to be a part of, so I think it's only natural to respect the creators who managed to get there, manage to navigate it, manage to mantain it - and even who just made that weird combination of circumstance, talent and chance work for them. Plus, as people also in varying also under a microscope, these other creators also know the downside of being in the public eye, the very real and very hard pressure put on you, so knowing how huge the active dedicated fandom is & the pressure that logically puts D&P under, that's yet another thing to respect them for navigating pretty well & not losing their minds while doing so.

(I'll also add that they're very easy to like, because they learned the hard way very early on to stay away from drama, therefore they aren't connected to any recent shitstorms flooding the YT community, so they're very, very safe in that regard, and like, throwing a compliment out there and at the very least hoping you get a few extra clicks out of it - that's pretty smart and mutually beneficial way to do this weird social media fandom thing.)

Poe · Mon May 16, 2016 8:54 pm

Stakhanov wrote:@gnostic He runs a tight ship, but I don't think that what he does is that unique. There are other media personalities who keep their private life private and are not really noticeable except for the sort of content they produce. Also, youtube personalities have a few advantages in this regard: complete creative control over what they put out and they fly under the radar of much of the traditional media - so a lot less of pressure to give public opinions or get some nosy paparazzi.
It shows that Phil has a master's degree in video production and he's good at just doing his thing, but 'his thing' has evolved too. When i watch his early vids, you can see more of his personality shine through and things are much less redacted.

Phil's 'thing' has evolved indeed but I don't think that it did in the best possible way. As you said, in his older videos we were able to see more of his personality, even then, in a pretty reserved way. Nowadays he is resembling a robot more than a human and the times when we do see a reaction or an opinion are rare and very carefully worded. This may be a more professional approach to the job that he has but it's not the best way to connect with fans and that may affect his brand in the long run

jaej · Mon May 16, 2016 8:55 pm

actually danphil333, you just reminded me of something i realised recently about why i tend to dislike phil's 'omg weird encounter!!' videos more than dan's:
he's got that whole 'who wants to be normal! being weird is better!' thing going on, but he makes a massive deal whenever he meets someone doing something vaguely odd. an elderly person being relatively unusual gets a character with crossed eyes and weird motions, and responses like 'i thought i was going to die!!' etc like a person acting in a way he doesnt understand = violence. so acceptable weird is... liking pokemon? that clash is what makes me uncomfortable, i think. i get the 'i meet weird people!!' thing but, like, theres just a weird contrast between the two things in the way theyre presented. idk. it took like 2 years to understand why i didnt like them aside from being dull, and we're here!

griff · Mon May 16, 2016 8:59 pm

gnostic wrote: Because throwing out the branding, the organization, the business: all the things we can only theorize about - Phil does what he does and is fucking good about it. He has his persona (collective IDB sigh) and everything else is underwraps. No inviting speculation about his personal life (beyond the part which makes him money), no public strong opinions, no tastes shared, no dramatic PR fuck ups. It's impressive

lool i'm so sorry i'll type out my actual composed thoughts on this later but that bit about no dramatic fuck ups actually made me laugh out loud imo voldy was one of the most dramatic yt fuck ups of all time?? (regardless of whether or not you think it's real)

gotta give deppy props tho, they clearly have managed things well enough (and also have a fandom which is self policing enough) that people have the opinion that they are always 100% in control despite everything

Poe · Mon May 16, 2016 9:06 pm

phamnotof but this needs a trigger warning

danphil333 · Mon May 16, 2016 9:09 pm

just trying to move from this hideous rank(still love you mods but...delia smiths placenta?)

Stakhanov · Mon May 16, 2016 9:09 pm

@phamnotof I believe the business model was something like "the blood of 18 dead hamsters = getting featured one time on the 2013 youtube frontpage".
Hank Green probably played it smart with that answer too - making sure to put the credit with the audience and highlighting the positive aspects of the fandom community. You're very right though that you can't underestimate the value of the sort of community that is built around them.
Also I truly think that besides all the potential for monetary gains and growing their channels and what not, it's the enthusiasm and recognition of the fans and viewers that drives D&P and gives a sense of meaning to their 'job'. If you're just a pop culture icon shouting in the desert it gets lonely very quickly.

coffee pig · Mon May 16, 2016 9:30 pm

Poe wrote::thanks: phamnotof but this needs a trigger warning
phamnotof wrote:satanic hamster sacrifices

So that's why the hamsters keep disappearing....they aren't being killed in depraved sex acts, they are sacrificed each month to the Dark Lord Google as a peace offering.

For real though, I find it fascinating that Phil is essentially a glorified vlogger who doesn't share all that much about himself, and has been been doing so for ten years now. On a platform where oversharing is everything, and becoming ''boring'' usually renders you obsolete (eg. Charlie McDonnell), it's interesting to see how his popularity hasn't wavered. It's true that not all YouTubers bring their personal lives into their videos, but with these YouTubers the primary focus of their channels isn't themselves (filmmakers, gamers, and certain beauty gurus come to mind.‎) Phil's content is about his own personal experiences, but isn't at the same time, if that makes any sense. He hardly scratches the surface. I don't mean this is a negative way necessarily, just an observation. I also think Dan is partially to thank for his ‎(their) titanic popularity in the last few years, as Dan is the one who opens up the most and is responsible for most of the fan interaction. They balance each other out. They have a symbiotic relationship where some of Dan's oversharing makes up for Phil's aloofness, and Phil never causing controversy makes up for Dan occasionally treading on people's toes.

gnostic · Mon May 16, 2016 9:30 pm

griff wrote:
gnostic wrote: Because throwing out the branding, the organization, the business: all the things we can only theorize about - Phil does what he does and is fucking good about it. He has his persona (collective IDB sigh) and everything else is underwraps. No inviting speculation about his personal life (beyond the part which makes him money), no public strong opinions, no tastes shared, no dramatic PR fuck ups. It's impressive
lool i'm so sorry i'll type out my actual composed thoughts on this later but that bit about no dramatic fuck ups actually made me laugh out loud imo voldy was one of the most dramatic yt fuck ups of all time?? (regardless of whether or not you think it's real)

gotta give deppy props tho, they clearly have managed things well enough (and also have a fandom which is self policing enough) that people have the opinion that they are always 100% in control despite everything

If you come at Voldy from my perspective of it being a planned PR stunt, it worked out better than they could've hoped!

I am in no way saying that what Phil's doing is unique, or that he is the absolute best at it. But it is pleasing to me.

2old4thisshite · Mon May 16, 2016 9:32 pm

danphil333 wrote:

just trying to move from this hideous rank(still love you mods but...delia smiths placenta?)

If I could be Delia Smith's Malteser Vagina my life would be complete.

corn flakes · Mon May 16, 2016 9:44 pm

off topic but is this related to tatinof? have some of you have heard of something similar?

Stakhanov · Mon May 16, 2016 9:58 pm

(damn, the forum is eating my posts today. Good thing i still have the habit of control-c ing every post before i press the submit button from posting on that buggy-as-hell gossip forum )

Poe wrote: Phil's 'thing' has evolved indeed but I don't think that it did in the best possible way. As you said, in his older videos we were able to see more of his personality, even then, in a pretty reserved way. Nowadays he is resembling a robot more than a human and the times when we do see a reaction or an opinion are rare and very carefully worded. This may be a more professional approach to the job that he has but it's not the best way to connect with fans and that may affect his brand in the long run

Yes, it's a bit to much constricting. He made an offhand remark a while back about the tour and how it's nice to 'get outside the youtube box' with it, so my suspicion is he feels his thing is a bit to narrow too. Idk, but i would be surprised if he didn't think about his public image before.
Imo I think they're also both aware that they can't keep doing what they do now forever. The platform is changing, the whole financial framework that youtube offers is pretty fragile ... and they themselves aren't the tweens they were 7 or so years ago when they started out.
Phil is 30. You can only get so excited about plants, candle scents and pokemon when you're thirty

(By no means do I underestimate his child-like sense of wonder and broad curiosity, but i can see how he sometimes puts on the child entertainer pants

shikaritrash · Mon May 16, 2016 10:07 pm

corn flakes wrote:off topic but is this related to tatinof? have some of you have heard of something similar?

I think it's just what happens at every show venue. Only once or twice have I not seen unofficial band merch sold after I went to a concert.

SquishPhan · Mon May 16, 2016 10:12 pm

corn flakes wrote:off topic but is this related to tatinof? have some of you have heard of something similar?

That's both really rude and very ballsy, I have to say. Can see though why they wouldn't be very happy with it. Still it's probably legal, so nothing that can be done about it. Or maybe Phil can find out the peoples' emails and write them angry DMs.

griff · Mon May 16, 2016 10:13 pm

gnostic wrote:If you come at Voldy from my perspective of it being a planned PR stunt, it worked out better than they could've hoped!.

what makes u think that?

i'm curious, bc that doesn't seem to be that common of a belief? (or maybe it is and i'm just out of the loop)

Stakhanov · Mon May 16, 2016 10:19 pm

gnostic wrote:
If you come at Voldy from my perspective of it being a planned PR stunt, it worked out better than they could've hoped!

I am in no way saying that what Phil's doing is unique, or that he is the absolute best at it. But it is pleasing to me.

Voldy as a PR-stunt ?! Hm. Interesting take. If that were true, why did they insist it was a prank then after they pulled the video? They could have just let it circulate within the fandom without commenting on it. That would have added even more to the mystery. It's a pretty risque thing to do too. With hindsight you can argue that it didn't really create that much backlash but phil was certainly playing with fire (bad pun intended) faking a relationship only to later deny it and sell it as a prank. There's already some people saying Dan was rude and lying to his fans in his 'no homo phase' just because he denied phan.

Also, do you really think they were this calculated and focused on marketing schemes and brands? An accidental leak of a prank vid (in poor taste or not) or a pre-planned leak as a PR -stunt followed by careful manipulation to create a certain image of a fake relationship ...well that's on an entire other level than 'i promise we'll upload an undertale episode today

'

coffee pig · Mon May 16, 2016 10:22 pm

gnostic wrote:
If you come at Voldy from my perspective of it being a planned PR stunt, it worked out better than they could've hoped!.

Sorry gnostic, I'd sooner believe in hamster sacrifice than Voldy being a PR stunt. I'd like to hear your reasoning though.

smugpug · Mon May 16, 2016 10:24 pm

This discussion about how Phil performs made me immediately think about his old channel trailer. Seems like he was trying to sell himself as a goofier alternative vlogger/storyteller.

Mon May 16, 2016 10:27 pm

I agree with you on Dan contributing to Phil's continued success, but I'll be more negative about it. (Mind you, I love Phil, but....) Phil would be long outdated at this point in time, were it not for Dan. I'd go so far as to say, he'd probably have been slightly forgotten like other "boring" vloggers have become from back in the past. Many have brought this up, but his continued popularity is propped up by Phan, the curiosity in the relationship, the Phandom itself. Today, you essentially can't be any level of intense Dan-fan without being a Phil fan. (And obviously vice versa, but how many people have you heard say "I loved Dan's videos.... and then I found Phil." I find that to be an overwhelming majority, but let me know if I'm wrong.)

Charts via the survey to back that up for us data-loving folk (massive thanks again for those who pulled that together):

Phil's a fantastic YouTuber to love and I'm proud to be a fan of his, but I won't deny I'm addicted to this fandom and this forum for the two of them. Had he never met or collabed with Dan, that wouldn't be the case for me or many of us. Because... well, he's a bit dull.

I also don't know if Dan benefits from Phil's drama-free persona. I think Dan benefits from Phil via "Phan" again. They can't go separate ways in any capacity and I think Phil, in particular, is acutely aware of it.

corn flakes · Mon May 16, 2016 10:27 pm

shikaritrash wrote:
corn flakes wrote:off topic but is this related to tatinof? have some of you have heard of something similar?

I think it's just what happens at every show venue. Only once or twice have I not seen unofficial band merch sold after I went to a concert.

Yes but the point here is as much of a big deal are they are not a band, to have some fans or some business follow their shows puts everything in perspective. There has been some business copying their merch but this from my p.o.w. is on another level...has something similar occured in other youtubers tours? (not like pentatonix but tyler&similar)

SquishPhan: I don't think that it is totally legal but probably like you said nothing much they can do.

annetamiau · Mon May 16, 2016 10:30 pm

Re voldy: Imo it's reasonable to think they might not be together now because we don't see much of their lives (even though I tend to believe they really are a couple), but to think they planned the V-day video?? That would mean their early interactions were not sincere, and thus their friendship/relationship wouldn't be as strong as it appears to be today. They would basically be the British version of Lush.

Ticia · Mon May 16, 2016 10:33 pm

griff wrote:
gnostic wrote:If you come at Voldy from my perspective of it being a planned PR stunt, it worked out better than they could've hoped!.
what makes u think that? i'm curious, bc that doesn't seem to be that common of a belief? (or maybe it is and i'm just out of the loop)

In my opinion, voldy made them gain many new viewers, attracted by two cute British guys that may or may not be in a relationship, plus the not-so-subtle recurrent references to it in the phandom hypes this particular aspect of their brand. Bear in mind that it's unusual in the (gay) shipping phenomena that tangible proof exists, whether real or not. At the same time, the video has also given them the right amount of drama without being an obstacle for their Youtube careers.