Dan & Phil Part 11: Kinda queer and terrible #ComeTogether

[Cora]

If I knew nothing of and I saw that "AmazingPhil Channel Trailer", I would 100% subscribe.

As for Voldy, I absolutely do not believe it was a PR stunt. I'm on the fence about real v prank for a number of reasons, but a PR stunt, no. First of all, we have proof that the YT glitch was not a D&P isolated event, secondly, when people "leak" something for PR, they don't go on crusades to squash any existence of it. They simply make statements about how horrible it is that it happened and how violated they feel and how they're "looking into it", but they let it exist in the world.
In the mid 00's there was a dick pic leak from a celebrity and the owner of said phallus acted horrified and angry but never tried to sue anyone or have it pulled from sites. The actuality is that I have personal knowledge that he was in fact the one that leaked it, for PR.

[DryCereal]

karma_yeah to all of that. Echoes a LOT of my thoughts on the whole subject.

How many times did they go out to run? 2? 3?



But you can enjoy the company Phil
Phil's ls Jan 24, 2015
credits

Soooo many studies on the benefits of exercising with company/in a group over doing it alone. Aside from the "company"/social aspect, it helps with adherence, motivation, enjoyment, goal setting/achievement, all that good stuff. One thing though Philly, if you can't talk full stop, dial it back juuuuuuust a little. /fitnessinstructormodeOFF

yes, yes I am wide awake at 4:18am. Don't ask.

[whoknows]

I'm not sure what to think of voldy sometimes it seems like a hilarious sort of comedy and at other times can seem real.

Cora808, you have to seem have connections and know to the industry. Have you met or ran in the same circles as gabz is shite from gg?

[Cora]

[offtopic]

Cora808, you have to seem have connections and know to the industry. Have you met or ran in the same circles as gabz is shite from gg?

Honestly, I was only on GG for a couple of months before the Great Move, so I don't really know much about who G_I_S is. I'd have to know more about her identity to say one way or the other.[/offtopic]

[hazeygal212]

sorry to butt into this comment thread with a random unrelated topic, but could someone please explain to me what "THE RULES" are, that Dan apparently signed "dan lester" ? i was reading about it a few threads back and was super confused?? it would be greatly appreciated

[jhamba]

sorry to butt into this comment thread with a random unrelated topic, but could someone please explain to me what "THE RULES" are, that Dan apparently signed "dan lester" ? i was reading about it a few threads back and was super confused?? it would be greatly appreciated

Dan didn't sign it Dan Lester, unfortunately. He just has a really weird handwriting. It just seems to be rules for his daily routine.

[Cora]

sorry to butt into this comment thread with a random unrelated topic, but could someone please explain to me what "THE RULES" are, that Dan apparently signed "dan lester" ? i was reading about it a few threads back and was super confused?? it would be greatly appreciated

It was a sheet of paper sitting in the background of a video that we all obsessed over trying to make out because it was tiny and blurry and in Dan's secret-shadow-chicken handwriting. We sort of decided it broke down a list of intentions in regards to sleep and filming schedules.

[oqua]

sorry to butt into this comment thread with a random unrelated topic, but could someone please explain to me what "THE RULES" are, that Dan apparently signed "dan lester" ? i was reading about it a few threads back and was super confused?? it would be greatly appreciated

Okay, here's a brief summary:

In several videos, a list titled "THE RULES" can be seen in the background. Every time we've seen them, they're by that keyboard. As far as I know, they appear four times:

• Manchester DITL
• Dan's video about getting fired
• Two vyous where Dan plays the keyboard

The clearest shot is from the Manchester DITL. Here's the basic scene


Edited/bigger version:


We spent a few days trying to decipher what the list of rules were.

We're quite certain of the first three rules:


The bottom three rules are more blurry and impossible to decipher definitively. Some theories include that they discuss laundry or filming/uploading schedules.

As for the "Dan Lester" thing: long story short, I noticed that Dan's signature in the bottom left doesn't really look like it says "Dan Howell," and that it looks more like "Dan Lester."



We entertained the notion for a while, but eventually we decided that it DOES say "Dan Howell" after all, and like jhamba says, he just has awful handwriting.

The evidence that he did in fact write Dan Howell comes from this picture I found among his Tumblr likes, where he signed with his full name:


Here, you can tell that what looked like "Dan Lester" on the "RULES" sheet actually did say "Dan Howell." Granted, even the example above doesn't look exactly like it says "Dan Howell," but to me it quite clearly says "Dan H" at least. Then I think the two tall things are the two l's and it's followed by some kind of odd scribble.

[daichii]

catching up with the thread today has been... interesting

I hope they post something soon

[Kathrynxjane]

Just caught up with the thread.

voldy tbh I can't really say much because I have never seen it (or I never want to see it, if it is real me searching for it feels weird).
I don't think they are masterminds enough to make it a PR stunt and if it was, I would be disappointed in them tbh. Like some one said earlier, them making out to be in a relationship/gay and it was just a stunt, would be disgusting.

[leisurely]

sorry to butt into this comment thread with a random unrelated topic, but could someone please explain to me what "THE RULES" are, that Dan apparently signed "dan lester" ? i was reading about it a few threads back and was super confused?? it would be greatly appreciated

Okay, here's a brief summary:

In several videos, a list titled "THE RULES" can be seen in the background. Every time we've seen them, they're by that keyboard. As far as I know, they appear four times:

• Manchester DITL
• Dan's video about getting fired
• Two vyous where Dan plays the keyboard

The clearest shot is from the Manchester DITL. Here's the basic scene


Edited/bigger version:


We spent a few days trying to decipher what the list of rules were.

We're quite certain of the first three rules:


The bottom three rules are more blurry and impossible to decipher definitively. Some theories include that they discuss laundry or filming/uploading schedules.

As for the "Dan Lester" thing: long story short, I noticed that Dan's signature in the bottom left doesn't really look like it says "Dan Howell," and that it looks more like "Dan Lester."



We entertained the notion for a while, but eventually we decided that it DOES say "Dan Howell" after all, and like jhamba says, he just has awful handwriting.

The evidence that he did in fact write Dan Howell comes from this picture I found among his Tumblr likes, where he signed with his full name:


Here, you can tell that what looked like "Dan Lester" on the "RULES" sheet actually did say "Dan Howell." Granted, even the example above doesn't look exactly like it says "Dan Howell," but to me it quite clearly says "Dan H" at least. Then I think the two tall things are the two l's and it's followed by some kind of odd scribble.

After looking at his signature in the last image again I actually think it looks more like "Daniel" than "Dan Howell". But it's so messy it could be anything and i thought my handwriting was bad

[gnostic]

*sigh* it's actually a bit distressing to see people reply to my post with arguments i am completely aware of, and to which I have given consideration, and misunderstand my comments so. But unfortunately i am off lawyering for the next 16 hours so can't exactly participate in discussion....

But glad to see the rules mystery was solved!

[sia]

Hello everyone, I'm just another first time poster. Sorry for changing the topic, but there is just something that I feel went a bit under the radar in march about Dan (yay for another bingo topic).
I'm also suspecting like a lot of people here Dan is doing some kind of slow coming out lately but for me personally this has been the strongest piece of evidence. I mean I like all man attraction mentions like the next person, but lets be real; a lot of male and female straight celebrities/youtubers talk about being attracted to same sex people and there is nothing wrong with that. Some people are just universally beautiful for whatever reason. So yeah I'm talking about this particular tumblr post in combination with this mention in a liveshow.

http://danisnotonfire.tumblr.com/post/1 ... c-teenager

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIAkEEvhrSI from 8:50 onward

And yes Dan is not being direct in this two mentions and he is being very sneaky as usual but I just feel that in combination they basically confirm that he considers himself part of LGBT+. So we can see from the tumblr post black-on-white that he is indeed thinking about his personal experiences when he later talks about it in the liveshow. Because he never elaborates that there. And you can see how bloody careful is with his word choices. I actually believe his leprechaun mention is also connected with the whole rainbow thing. So how I understand this whole thing is that as little as five years ago (and 2012 is slowly becoming almost 5 years ago) he felt confused and needed a community where he would feel accepted for who he is no matter what color of the rainbow, so basically not straight. And what is especially interesting to me is how he then proceeds to talk about how real life is not like the internet; how homophobia is still present to this day (and throws that probably in there) and it just got me thinking if he is talking about some specific situation he himself is still in to this day.

I have no opinion on what kind of community tumblr actually is and I also feel that is kind of irrelevant in this situation because like every social media you see on tumblr what you want to see. So I would love to here your opinions because this is something that I've been thinking about for some time now and I just waited for things to become a little calmer around here. I am in no way expert in the whole coming out thing, so please correct me if you feel I've been wrong in any way.

[SquishPhan]

How many times did they go out to run? 2? 3?



But you can enjoy the company Phil
Phil's ls Jan 24, 2015
credits

I feel like it can't have been more than three times.
Cute though that they even wanted to do that together.

[oqua]

Hello everyone, I'm just another first time poster. Sorry for changing the topic, but there is just something that I feel went a bit under the radar in march about Dan (yay for another bingo topic).
I'm also suspecting like a lot of people here Dan is doing some kind of slow coming out lately but for me personally this has been the strongest piece of evidence. I mean I like all man attraction mentions like the next person, but lets be real; a lot of male and female straight celebrities/youtubers talk about being attracted to same sex people and there is nothing wrong with that. Some people are just universally beautiful for whatever reason. So yeah I'm talking about this particular tumblr post in combination with this mention in a liveshow.

http://danisnotonfire.tumblr.com/post/1 ... c-teenager

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIAkEEvhrSI from 8:50 onward

And yes Dan is not being direct in this two mentions and he is being very sneaky as usual but I just feel that in combination they basically confirm that he considers himself part of LGBT+. So we can see from the tumblr post black-on-white that he is indeed thinking about his personal experiences when he later talks about it in the liveshow. Because he never elaborates that there. And you can see how bloody careful is with his word choices. I actually believe his leprechaun mention is also connected with the whole rainbow thing. So how I understand this whole thing is that as little as five years ago (and 2012 is slowly becoming almost 5 years ago) he felt confused and needed a community where he would feel accepted for who he is no matter what color of the rainbow, so basically not straight. And what is especially interesting to me is how he then proceeds to talk about how real life is not like the internet; how homophobia is still present to this day (and throws that probably in there) and it just got me thinking if he is talking about some specific situation he himself is still in to this day.

I have no opinion on what kind of community tumblr actually is and I also feel that is kind of irrelevant in this situation because like every social media you see on tumblr what you want to see. So I would love to here your opinions because this is something that I've been thinking about for some time now and I just waited for things to become a little calmer around here. I am in no way expert in the whole coming out thing, so please correct me if you feel I've been wrong in any way.

Hi! This is a very interesting post, thanks! I feel like I never watched that liveshow all the way through or something? Idk, when I listened to the part you linked just now it seemed totally unfamiliar to me, and I'm pretty sure that if I'd heard it before I would have remembered it because it's really intriguing.

I do want to point out that this liveshow was on March 15th, two days before St. Patrick's Day, so that might explain why rainbows and leprechauns were on his mind...since rainbows and leprechauns are kind of the symbols of St. Patrick's Day haha. That being said, he's talking about communities and people being supportive of people on the fringes of society and then he mentions rainbows? It does seem significant, in spite of the proximity to St. Patrick's Day.

Personally I don't think he says anything that could really be counted as confirmation that he "considers himself part of LGBT+". You're totally right about how "bloody careful is with his word choices" lol; it's kind of amazing how he manages to talk for so long yet avoid ever giving specifics. But then again... like, what else could he be talking about, when you get down to it? Since he's a white male, I feel like it pretty much has to be gender/sexuality stuff or mental health stuff. And there are little things, like his repetition of the word "positivity" and the fact that he alludes to racism and homophobia (as opposed to, say, social stigma about mental health), that make me feel like his comments do apply more to sexuality than they do to mental health. But obviously he's being very vague and general, and probably trying to say things that apply to all of his viewers, not (necessarily) to himself in particular.

Basically I don't think it's possible to come to any definitive conclusions, and ultimately we don't have any way of knowing what was actually going through his head as he was talking, but there's some fascinating stuff embedded in there all the same.

I transcribed the liveshow comments below... because I just process things better when they're typed out haha.

(13 March 2016)
Tumblr post -

i wish i had tumblr when i was a neurotic teenager don’t take this community for granted okay

(15 March 2016)
YouNow quote -

Chat: “Hope you’re okay; your tumblr post was deep.”
Dan: “Was it deep? I suppose so. But I think it’s, like, erm, what I was saying… was… even like — When did Tumblr become like a proper thing? Like 2010? 2011? When did Tumblr like really become trendy, not like come into existence? — But anyway, like, even like five years ago, there weren’t really… I mean there was like Myspace and Bebo and Facebook, but they were all lame social networks, and like Myspace was full of idiots and like Bebo was full of chavs and Facebook was boring like it is… But Tumblr — the general community vibe of Tumblr is very positive, and supportive, and kind, and now there’s this website where people can spend all of their time where there’s just a lot of positivity and like the general majority of the community encourages kind of these positive messages of support, and especially all the people on the fringes of society that need communities to find support — that’s, you know, a good— that’s what the majority of Tumblr is for. And…erm… there wasn’t anything like that, even like five years ago or ten years ago, so to everyone who was like ‘I feel like I’m a weirdo’ for… any of the ten billion reasons why we’re all… leprechauns… er… there wasn’t really anywhere… where there was an overwhelming amount of people that kind of reflected this positivity at you? Whereas now, no matter what… color of the rainbow, weird, you know, corner of the planet that you’re on, you can go onto this website called Tumblr and there will be a huge community of people that will be there for you to relate to — was what I was saying. That’s just cool. So if you ever— ‘cause we’re all in a bubble sometimes, of social media, where we’re like ‘What? We live in a world now where nobody’s racist or homophobic or whatever’… No, it’s like, the majority of people on Tumblr are, you know, progressive when it comes to these issues [laughs] but, you know, the general scope of the world is probably pretty horrific still, unfortunately. Erm, and that’s what… I mean, it’s not just Tumblr. Obviously, like, Twitter… And the YouTube community, like, you know, the actual creator community, the people that go to conventions, they’re all very kind; they’re the same group of people… So it’s just saying, like… don’t take it for granted.”

[swofro]

Since nothing is happening, I might as well ask about this.

Anybody knows what this one is about?
(also does this belong in the tatinof thread or here. I am not sure myself where to post this)

[phamnotof]

Hello everyone, I'm just another first time poster. Sorry for changing the topic, but there is just something that I feel went a bit under the radar in march about Dan (yay for another bingo topic).
I'm also suspecting like a lot of people here Dan is doing some kind of slow coming out lately but for me personally this has been the strongest piece of evidence. I mean I like all man attraction mentions like the next person, but lets be real; a lot of male and female straight celebrities/youtubers talk about being attracted to same sex people and there is nothing wrong with that. Some people are just universally beautiful for whatever reason. So yeah I'm talking about this particular tumblr post in combination with this mention in a liveshow.

http://danisnotonfire.tumblr.com/post/1 ... c-teenager

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIAkEEvhrSI from 8:50 onward

And yes Dan is not being direct in this two mentions and he is being very sneaky as usual but I just feel that in combination they basically confirm that he considers himself part of LGBT+. So we can see from the tumblr post black-on-white that he is indeed thinking about his personal experiences when he later talks about it in the liveshow. Because he never elaborates that there. And you can see how bloody careful is with his word choices. I actually believe his leprechaun mention is also connected with the whole rainbow thing. So how I understand this whole thing is that as little as five years ago (and 2012 is slowly becoming almost 5 years ago) he felt confused and needed a community where he would feel accepted for who he is no matter what color of the rainbow, so basically not straight. And what is especially interesting to me is how he then proceeds to talk about how real life is not like the internet; how homophobia is still present to this day (and throws that probably in there) and it just got me thinking if he is talking about some specific situation he himself is still in to this day.

I have no opinion on what kind of community tumblr actually is and I also feel that is kind of irrelevant in this situation because like every social media you see on tumblr what you want to see. So I would love to here your opinions because this is something that I've been thinking about for some time now and I just waited for things to become a little calmer around here. I am in no way expert in the whole coming out thing, so please correct me if you feel I've been wrong in any way.

Hi! This is a very interesting post, thanks! I feel like I never watched that liveshow all the way through or something? Idk, when I listened to the part you linked just now it seemed totally unfamiliar to me, and I'm pretty sure that if I'd heard it before I would have remembered it because it's really intriguing.

I do want to point out that this liveshow was on March 15th, two days before St. Patrick's Day, so that might explain why rainbows and leprechauns were on his mind...since rainbows and leprechauns are kind of the symbols of St. Patrick's Day haha. That being said, he's talking about communities and people being supportive of people on the fringes of society and then he mentions rainbows? It does seem significant, in spite of the proximity to St. Patrick's Day.

Personally I don't think he says anything that could really be counted as confirmation that he "considers himself part of LGBT+". You're totally right about how "bloody careful is with his word choices" lol; it's kind of amazing how he manages to talk for so long yet avoid ever giving specifics. But then again... like, what else could he be talking about, when you get down to it? Since he's a white male, I feel like it pretty much has to be gender/sexuality stuff or mental health stuff. And there are little things, like his repetition of the word "positivity" and the fact that he alludes to racism and homophobia (as opposed to, say, social stigma about mental health), that make me feel like his comments do apply more to sexuality than they do to mental health. But obviously he's being very vague and general, and probably trying to say things that apply to all of his viewers, not (necessarily) to himself in particular.

Basically I don't think it's possible to come to any definitive conclusions, and ultimately we don't have any way of knowing what was actually going through his head as he was talking, but there's some fascinating stuff embedded in there all the same.

I transcribed the liveshow comments below... because I just process things better when they're typed out haha.

(13 March 2016)
Tumblr post -

i wish i had tumblr when i was a neurotic teenager don’t take this community for granted okay

(15 March 2016)
YouNow quote -

Chat: “Hope you’re okay; your tumblr post was deep.”
Dan: “Was it deep? I suppose so. But I think it’s, like, erm, what I was saying… was… even like — When did Tumblr become like a proper thing? Like 2010? 2011? When did Tumblr like really become trendy, not like come into existence? — But anyway, like, even like five years ago, there weren’t really… I mean there was like Myspace and Bebo and Facebook, but they were all lame social networks, and like Myspace was full of idiots and like Bebo was full of chavs and Facebook was boring like it is… But Tumblr — the general community vibe of Tumblr is very positive, and supportive, and kind, and now there’s this website where people can spend all of their time where there’s just a lot of positivity and like the general majority of the community encourages kind of these positive messages of support, and especially all the people on the fringes of society that need communities to find support — that’s, you know, a good— that’s what the majority of Tumblr is for. And…erm… there wasn’t anything like that, even like five years ago or ten years ago, so to everyone who was like ‘I feel like I’m a weirdo’ for… any of the ten billion reasons why we’re all… leprechauns… er… there wasn’t really anywhere… where there was an overwhelming amount of people that kind of reflected this positivity at you? Whereas now, no matter what… color of the rainbow, weird, you know, corner of the planet that you’re on, you can go onto this website called Tumblr and there will be a huge community of people that will be there for you to relate to — was what I was saying. That’s just cool. So if you ever— ‘cause we’re all in a bubble sometimes, of social media, where we’re like ‘What? We live in a world now where nobody’s racist or homophobic or whatever’… No, it’s like, the majority of people on Tumblr are, you know, progressive when it comes to these issues [laughs] but, you know, the general scope of the world is probably pretty horrific still, unfortunately. Erm, and that’s what… I mean, it’s not just Tumblr. Obviously, like, Twitter… And the YouTube community, like, you know, the actual creator community, the people that go to conventions, they’re all very kind; they’re the same group of people… So it’s just saying, like… don’t take it for granted.”

I adore this moment and yeah, it does feel significant to me. And I must too praise his ability to talk about something like this and not directly adress it as either an "us" or "them" thing - that takes some skill. But as someone also riding that rainbow, the way he speaks so warmly of it & the insight he provides feels very involved. Not many people in privileged groups have that amount of empathy and understanding, no matter how well-meaning they are.

Catallena I love your posts, some great insights & yeah, I've been thinking along those this for quite a while, too. It's a part of why despite being European & definitely wanting to see the show live, I'd actually prefer they ended TATINOF in the US.

[uglyamerican]

This has been bothering me for a while: For those who are complaining about D&P's relative dearth in posting, give them a break. Putting on a tour is time consuming; finding a quiet, well lit place to record while on the road appears to be challenging; and getting lucky enough to stay in a hotel/motel with decent internet good enough to support livestreaming does not happen very often. But they seem to be trying. The argument that they should have banked videos shot beforehand, well that's easy to say, but at the same time they were preparing the tour - not a simple endeavor. D&P doesn't have a production staff like Phil DeFranco or the Fine Bros, etc., and tbh, I would hate that. It would forever change the "look and feel" of their product, in a negative sense. Btw, I work in the traditional media biz in physical production, and it takes an unbelievable amount of work to produce even :30 seconds worth of high quality material... it is not just about turning on a camera and start flapping your lips - there is some thought behind it. /rant

[DryCereal]

How many times did they go out to run? 2? 3?

But you can enjoy the company Phil
Phil's ls Jan 24, 2015
credits

I feel like it can't have been more than three times.
Cute though that they even wanted to do that together.

I'mma be generous (and my usual optimistic self when it comes to this sort of thing (keeps me sane, lemme alone!) and tack on a "that they told us about..." to the end of that.

[phamnotof]

This has been bothering me for a while: For those who are complaining about D&P's relative dearth in posting, give them a break. Putting on a tour is time consuming; finding a quiet, well lit place to record while on the road appears to be challenging; and getting lucky enough to stay in a hotel/motel with decent internet good enough to support livestreaming does not happen very often. But they seem to be trying. The argument that they should have banked videos shot beforehand, well that's easy to say, but at the same time they were preparing the tour - not a simple endeavor. D&P doesn't have a production staff like Phil DeFranco or the Fine Bros, etc., and tbh, I would hate that. It would forever change the "look and feel" of their product, in a negative sense. Btw, I work in the traditional media biz in physical production, and it takes an unbelievable amount of work to produce even :30 seconds worth of high quality material... it is not just about turning on a camera and start flapping your lips - there is some thought behind it. /rant

I mean, you make some good points, but it also feels like you're kind of saying: everyone who feels a certain way - don't. I'm not saying I don't have empathy for their situation, or understanding for how they got there. But as professionals who make bank doing what they do, it's not unreasonable for their fans to hold them to certain standards. It's not like everyone's saying "If I don't get a new Undetale video by midnight, that's it, unsubscribing" - but expressing complains/dissatisfaction? I feel like that's perfectly fine to me. Not to mention, as someone who's invested in their long-term situation & wants them to keep doing well for both selfish and relatively altruistic reasons (I like them! They seem like franky excellent humans!) - yeah, considering the affect content droughts will have on their channel is pretty smart, imo. Because people won't remember you forever. Charlieissocoollike was a great exaple to bring up - he used to be MASSIVE, one of the biggest UK names, and then he got lost in his head, made a few videos a year, and now produces a morning show that gets around 10-20k views and can't even pay for itself. Nobody wants to see that happen with D&P, and they're nowhere near close, but they're also not growing nearly as much as they could be (I mean, lok at Joe Sugg, he's gained like 600k subs in the last few months fater hitting 6kk), and as someone's pointed out, not growing on YT means putting yourself in danger of becoming obsolete.

[uglyamerican]

This has been bothering me for a while: For those who are complaining about D&P's relative dearth in posting, give them a break. Putting on a tour is time consuming; finding a quiet, well lit place to record while on the road appears to be challenging; and getting lucky enough to stay in a hotel/motel with decent internet good enough to support livestreaming does not happen very often. But they seem to be trying. The argument that they should have banked videos shot beforehand, well that's easy to say, but at the same time they were preparing the tour - not a simple endeavor. D&P doesn't have a production staff like Phil DeFranco or the Fine Bros, etc., and tbh, I would hate that. It would forever change the "look and feel" of their product, in a negative sense. Btw, I work in the traditional media biz in physical production, and it takes an unbelievable amount of work to produce even :30 seconds worth of high quality material... it is not just about turning on a camera and start flapping your lips - there is some thought behind it. /rant

I mean, you make some good points, but it also feels like you're kind of saying: everyone who feels a certain way - don't. I'm not saying I don't have empathy for their situation, or understanding for how they got there. But as professionals who make bank doing what they do, it's not unreasonable for their fans to hold them to certain standards. It's not like everyone's saying "If I don't get a new Undetale video by midnight, that's it, unsubscribing" - but expressing complains/dissatisfaction? I feel like that's perfectly fine to me. Not to mention, as someone who's invested in their long-term situation & wants them to keep doing well for both selfish and relatively altruistic reasons (I like them! They seem like franky excellent humans!) - yeah, considering the affect content droughts will have on their channel is pretty smart, imo. Because people won't remember you forever. Charlieissocoollike was a great exaple to bring up - he used to be MASSIVE, one of the biggest UK names, and then he got lost in his head, made a few videos a year, and now produces a morning show that gets around 10-20k views and can't even pay for itself. Nobody wants to see that happen with D&P, and they're nowhere near close, but they're also not growing nearly as much as they could be (I mean, lok at Joe Sugg, he's gained like 600k subs in the last few months fater hitting 6kk), and as someone's pointed out, not growing on YT means putting yourself in danger of becoming obsolete.

Charlie was one of the first YTers I watched, but I think he basically had a existential crisis / grew up. He wants to be taken more seriously and produce more sophisticated content, but his audience was not ready for it / wanted the "old" Charlie. Same for the Harries twins (and endless other YTers.) It's a tough transition. Interestingly, D&P have stuck with the same formula, while adding other channels, yet retaining the same "characters." It works for now, but there will be a time when they simply become too old for new tween / teen girls who become enamored with them instead of doing homework (I am certainly not part of that demographic, but I also think I'm a minority in terms of their primary audience.) Anyway, I'm trying to say (a bit unsuccessfully) that producing "quality" / thoughtful content is not simple - it takes time and more effort than people realize. I actually am worried a bit about Joe Sugg: he is in danger of burning himself out (he already may have done that a bit earlier this year.) It's almost like he wants to produce (make) as much (money) as he can while he's is still young and attractive to his audience....

[SquishPhan]

How many times did they go out to run? 2? 3?

But you can enjoy the company Phil
Phil's ls Jan 24, 2015
credits

I feel like it can't have been more than three times.
Cute though that they even wanted to do that together.

I'mma be generous (and my usual optimistic self when it comes to this sort of thing (keeps me sane, lemme alone!) and tack on a "that they told us about..." to the end of that.

That is very generous of you indeed. I think that they just gave up after like three times.

[daichii]

This has been bothering me for a while: For those who are complaining about D&P's relative dearth in posting, give them a break. Putting on a tour is time consuming; finding a quiet, well lit place to record while on the road appears to be challenging; and getting lucky enough to stay in a hotel/motel with decent internet good enough to support livestreaming does not happen very often. But they seem to be trying. The argument that they should have banked videos shot beforehand, well that's easy to say, but at the same time they were preparing the tour - not a simple endeavor. D&P doesn't have a production staff like Phil DeFranco or the Fine Bros, etc., and tbh, I would hate that. It would forever change the "look and feel" of their product, in a negative sense. Btw, I work in the traditional media biz in physical production, and it takes an unbelievable amount of work to produce even :30 seconds worth of high quality material... it is not just about turning on a camera and start flapping your lips - there is some thought behind it. /rant

they had months to prepare though, I think that's why people (myself included) were not really happy about the fact that they haven't even filmed undertale

yes they are busy, but being bad with schedules is an ongoing thing for these guys, tour or no tour. makes me sad because dapg would definitely have more subs if they put some more effort into the schedulig times and as someone previously mentioned, they already knew how busy they'd be when they launched the channel so again they're just really bad with schedules

[phamnotof]

This has been bothering me for a while: For those who are complaining about D&P's relative dearth in posting, give them a break. Putting on a tour is time consuming; finding a quiet, well lit place to record while on the road appears to be challenging; and getting lucky enough to stay in a hotel/motel with decent internet good enough to support livestreaming does not happen very often. But they seem to be trying. The argument that they should have banked videos shot beforehand, well that's easy to say, but at the same time they were preparing the tour - not a simple endeavor. D&P doesn't have a production staff like Phil DeFranco or the Fine Bros, etc., and tbh, I would hate that. It would forever change the "look and feel" of their product, in a negative sense. Btw, I work in the traditional media biz in physical production, and it takes an unbelievable amount of work to produce even :30 seconds worth of high quality material... it is not just about turning on a camera and start flapping your lips - there is some thought behind it. /rant

I mean, you make some good points, but it also feels like you're kind of saying: everyone who feels a certain way - don't. I'm not saying I don't have empathy for their situation, or understanding for how they got there. But as professionals who make bank doing what they do, it's not unreasonable for their fans to hold them to certain standards. It's not like everyone's saying "If I don't get a new Undetale video by midnight, that's it, unsubscribing" - but expressing complains/dissatisfaction? I feel like that's perfectly fine to me. Not to mention, as someone who's invested in their long-term situation & wants them to keep doing well for both selfish and relatively altruistic reasons (I like them! They seem like franky excellent humans!) - yeah, considering the affect content droughts will have on their channel is pretty smart, imo. Because people won't remember you forever. Charlieissocoollike was a great exaple to bring up - he used to be MASSIVE, one of the biggest UK names, and then he got lost in his head, made a few videos a year, and now produces a morning show that gets around 10-20k views and can't even pay for itself. Nobody wants to see that happen with D&P, and they're nowhere near close, but they're also not growing nearly as much as they could be (I mean, lok at Joe Sugg, he's gained like 600k subs in the last few months fater hitting 6kk), and as someone's pointed out, not growing on YT means putting yourself in danger of becoming obsolete.

Charlie was one of the first YTers I watched, but I think he basically had a existential crisis / grew up. He wants to be taken more seriously and produce more sophisticated content, but his audience was not ready for it / wanted the "old" Charlie. Same for the Harries twins (and endless other YTers.) It's a tough transition. Interestingly, D&P have stuck with the same formula, while adding other channels, yet retaining the same "characters." It works for now, but there will be a time when they simply become too old for new tween / teen girls who become enamored with them instead of doing homework (I am certainly not part of that demographic, but I also think I'm a minority in terms of their primary audience.) Anyway, I'm trying to say (a bit unsuccessfully) that producing "quality" / thoughtful content is not simple - it takes time and more effort than people realize. I actually am worried a bit about Joe Sugg: he is in danger of burning himself out (he already may have done that a bit earlier this year.) It's almost like he wants to produce (make) as much (money) as he can while he's is still young and attractive to his audience....

Oh I definitely agree that there were reasons for these changes, it's just that I feel like the conversation about empathy and the BTS of these channels is almost a seperate conversation from the business side of it. Because yeah, I feel for Charlie, I understand the Harrie's twins (who are still doing rather well considering the fact that they upload bi-monthly at best) motivations, but that changes nothing about the fact that the way they came into this transition wasn't smart & that the platform they're on just simply doesn't make that kind of content thrive. Like the highly prudiced (beautiful) travel blogs jacksgap puts out absolutely will take far more time than a Reacting To My Baby Videos. But even as Charlie came back & genuinely wanted to make content regularly (and does) that doesn't require high level production, so much time had passed that people had simply forgotten about him. That's the nature of online media. YT algorithms specifically play into making a lot of content, that's when you thrive. When you make a video per month, you're putting yourself in danger of no longer being pushed up people's subscription boxes/recommended on the main page. YT tries to recommend you videos of people who you've recently watched a lot, and when there hasn't been a new video for a month, it gets overwritten by other creators' content and once it's finally put out there, you might not see it unless you go looking for it. And I don't go looking for many creators. Most people don't. That's the difference between active fandoms and general audiences - and while D&P are great at strengtening & maintaining the relationship with their fandom through their magical hamster voodoo, they need to do a much better job at keeping the GA interested. Otherwise they will keep losing significant chunks of it, and you can already see that happening in their view counts - they're still doing REALLY well, but there's a decrease.

As far as changing the nature of the content you make and keeping your audience - it is possible. It just can't be done overnight. I mean, Tyler Oakley springs to mind as an example of someone who rebranded himself really well, kept his audience interested and also brought more people in. Which is where I want to see D&P go eventually, but you can't do that from the back of a tour bus, obviously.

(As far as Joe goes, I've been enjoying his content quite a bit recently & haven't felt like he's burning out/his heart isn't in it - unlike say, people like Marcus Butler, who's a shaddow og his former self and is struggling for views a lot these days - but I also watch him very casually & am not deeply invested - so if I stop enjoyng him, I'll just stop watching. Which is easy enough when you're a part of just the GA.)

[alittledizzy]

This has been bothering me for a while: For those who are complaining about D&P's relative dearth in posting, give them a break. Putting on a tour is time consuming; finding a quiet, well lit place to record while on the road appears to be challenging; and getting lucky enough to stay in a hotel/motel with decent internet good enough to support livestreaming does not happen very often. But they seem to be trying. The argument that they should have banked videos shot beforehand, well that's easy to say, but at the same time they were preparing the tour - not a simple endeavor. D&P doesn't have a production staff like Phil DeFranco or the Fine Bros, etc., and tbh, I would hate that. It would forever change the "look and feel" of their product, in a negative sense. Btw, I work in the traditional media biz in physical production, and it takes an unbelievable amount of work to produce even :30 seconds worth of high quality material... it is not just about turning on a camera and start flapping your lips - there is some thought behind it. /rant

they had months to prepare though, I think that's why people (myself included) were not really happy about the fact that they haven't even filmed undertale

yes they are busy, but being bad with schedules is an ongoing thing for these guys, tour or no tour. makes me sad because dapg would definitely have more subs if they put some more effort into the schedulig times and as someone previously mentioned, they already knew how busy they'd be when they launched the channel so again they're just really bad with schedules

We're also basically just holding them to the schedule their own peers uphold, so it can't be that Herculean a task. Dan and Phil's content, in production and writing terms, doesn't require that much more than any other youtuber. If their channels were based on artistic short films that required complex shooting and editing and effects, maybe - but lbr, they don't.

And, to be honest, we're not even holding them to to the schedule their own peers uphold because most youtubers (all of the Gleam ones, just about) in the past 1-3 years have managed a tour, regular weekly videos, and daily vlogs. I don't think any of us are demanding that kind of content overload from Dan and Phil. People were satisfied with getting 4-6 videos a month between their three channels combined, and liveshows.

As phamnotof said, no one's threatening to unsubscribe - I mean, if anyone wanted to unsub, I thin they just would. But for most of us, we just want to voice our displeasure and I think that is perfectly warranted here.

*sigh* it's actually a bit distressing to see people reply to my post with arguments i am completely aware of, and to which I have given consideration, and misunderstand my comments so. But unfortunately i am off lawyering for the next 16 hours so can't exactly participate in discussion....

Please bring it up again when you can participate in the discussion. You took a controversial stance then disappeared and I'm still really curious as to what makes you convinced it's a PR stunt.