Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Name

[oqua]

Another thread, another opportunity for us to entertain ourselves while Deppy are off on tour, being boring.

Carry on, noble butterslammers!



^ us, fruitlessly refreshing YouTube/Twitter/everything for days

(gif source: nyimeria)

[mermaid blood]

re: the last thread -

hidden bisexuality, crouching heteronormativity?

i loved that movie.

seeing heterosexuals identify other heterosexuals when sexuality is a self-identifying-only concept is hilarious to me. thank you for the laugh today IDB, i really needed it.

bless the fans with creative ideas. it must break up the m&g pics for them, which at this point are surely getting tedious... (what are you doing though, Philly?)

[alittledizzy]

seeing heterosexuals identify other heterosexuals when sexuality is a self-identifying-only concept is hilarious to me. thank you for the laugh today IDB, i really needed it.

It's even better when heterosexuals are helpfully identifying other heterosexuals when said other heterosexual has never once tried to self-identify as heterosexual. When they have, in fact, only ever self-identified as bisexual. But clearly that was [insert your bi-erasure of choice: for attention/something all the guys on youtube did/a phase he grew out of/just a prank, you spoon]!

I hope Dan's lurking. He'll be so proud someone is catching all his straight subtext and really seeing him for the non-penis-sucker he is.

[spider]

As the boring hetro-in-residence I see genuine denial of gayness in that compilation, without hidden bisexuality or 'struggling to identify my sexuality' or anything.

He's STRAIGHT Itellya!

I personally am an anti-phan as well and think they both are probably bi or straight. I don't think being attracted to the same sex or talking about being attracted to the same sex means anything.

Some of you should start Youtube channels. You're way funnier than .

Thanks for helping us understand that same gender attraction doesn't mean anything. All us 'gay' and 'bi' and 'pan' people are so confused and lost. Please teach us the correct way.

[mermaid blood]

hey now, maybe they're on to something though - Dan is straight and he just doesn't know it yet. that subtext he keeps throwing about JLaw every 6-8 months is all he has.

it's really, really hard to come out as heterosexual, guys. have some empathy

[2old4thisshite]

Hang on ... most who are gay or bi are identifying him as gay or bi on as little evidence as I have but you have no problem with that.

I love the way you clutch your pearls whenever someone disagrees with the sexual identity that YOU'VE given him.

If you want to believe he's bi because of his teenage attention whoring, go ahead but I'm entitled to my opinion.

[mermaid blood]

Hang on ... most who are gay or bi are identifying him as gay or bi on as little evidence as I have but you have no problem with that.

I love the way you clutch your pearls whenever someone disagrees with the sexual identity that YOU'VE given him.

If you want to believe he's bi because of his teenage attention whoring, go ahead but I'm entitled to my opinion.

I believe he is bi because he said he is bisexual and has not refuted that in 7 years.

back up your prejudice better, and i'll have an actual conversation with you.

[alittledizzy]

Hang on ... most who are gay or bi are identifying him as gay or bi on as little evidence as I have but you have no problem with that.

You're entitled to your opinion but not to incorrectly framing the facts. He has never said he is straight. There is no evidence toward his heterosexuality. Not "little" - none. Attraction to women does not negate bisexuality. Dating a woman does not negate bisexuality. Saying he is straight would negate bisexuality, and he never did that.

He stated he was bisexual multiple times and responded to statements from other people asserting or assuming his bisexuality with a complete lack of disagreeing multiple other times. He also, at this point, frequently references attraction to men and sexual acts with men.

If you don't count what Dan himself said as proof then there's no point in even having a discussion because you can't see past your own heteronormativity.

[spider]

NSFW
Meanwhile on the phan bus.

Flushed and panting, Dan pauses to catch his breath. 'Phil! You said you'd read IDB updates while I did this!'

'Right' gasps Phil. 'Uh... this person says you seem like you would never suck on a penis.'

'Oh really' Dan says. 'Good. I don't want to give people the wrong idea.'

All conversation trails off as Dan gets back to business.

[Bassoonage]

Wow you guys are so open minded. If you're referring to what I've said then I believe you are the one being heteronormative. You're labeling me as heterosexual when you have no idea what my sexuality is. For all you know I could be bisexual. And I'm in now way trying to "normalize" Dan or Phil. I'm simply repeating what Dan and Phil themselves have identified themselves as. They don't want to be seen as a couple? I don't see them as a couple. They don't want to be seen as gay? I don't see them as gay.

Believing someone when they say they are not gay or not in a relationship is not being heteronormative, it's called not being a dick, imo.

If it turns out they are then I'm happy for those people that they become comfortable with their identity and relationships. Until then, though, I just believe what they tell me.

Also I never said bi, gay, or pan people were lost. Where are you getting this from? Because I believe something someone said and am not trying to shove them out of a closet if they are in fact gay or bi? *sigh* I won't try to explain anymore.

I've never experienced this sort of hatred from the LGBTQ community before. I work with many people in the community and they are normally don't have this "us vs. them" attitude. They're normally very kind, and understanding. Especially if I accidentally said something to offend them (so I don't say it again and offend someone else) It's really disheartening actually. I'll make my exit. Goodnight.

[Cora]

Oh boy so much to catch up on! Shorthand time, ya'll!

mez29: Fantastic job!! It legitimately bummed me out about the fact that I won't be seeing them live. And you're killin' it on the keys!

Dan's trash panda eyes: I venture to guess that most people's skin is wildly unflattering when photographed at millimeters from touching the camera. I'm sure it doesn't look that obvious IRL and at a normal human distance.

Depression: There's a whoollee lot of projection going on in the phandom re: that topic. But as some of you mentioned, most people go through bouts of situational depression in their pre-teens and teens. It's normal, it's often hormonal, and it's a part of life. Kids struggle. It's part of becoming your own person. Struggles with identity and society and really just becoming aware of the world around you and the reality of your part in it all. That being said, often times people who struggle with clinical depression hide it rather well and are not often going to wear it like a t-shirt. Depression can be hidden, even moreso if you choose what parts of yourself to publicly show the internet/world. Unless he outright said "yes, I have clinical depression.", then we will literally never know for sure.

Pen yoink video: Bums me out. They are gracious to their fans, but it's very apparent the disconnect between talent and fan these days with them. Hard to articulate for me. It's mannerisms I've learned to understand from being behind the scenes. And I would bet you $50 that that letter never returned to D&P's hands and got tossed 5min after those girls walked away.

[Rigby]

Pen yoink video: Bums me out. They are gracious to their fans, but it's very apparent the disconnect between talent and fan these days with them. Hard to articulate for me. It's mannerisms I've learned to understand from being behind the scenes. And I would bet you $50 that that letter never returned to D&P's hands and got tossed 5min after those girls walked away.

Interesting. What makes you think that? To me, the worse they'd do would be putting all the letters in a bag and have it somewhere and never read them, but I doubt they'd throw them away!

[alittledizzy]

Believing someone when they say they are not gay or not in a relationship is not being heteronormative, it's called not being a dick, imo.

If your opinion was that they aren't gay, or they aren't in a relationship, that's fine. But you phrase it like the only options were gay or straight. They self-identified as bisexual. You mentioned bisexuality once and then followed it up with a paragraph comparing Dan to your straight boyfriend and projecting your own experiences "defending" your boyfriend's heterosexuality onto Dan.

This is not hatred directed at you. This is just frustration with the narrowness of your view and your unwillingness to incorporate all of Dan's self-identification into that view. He had a lot to say beyond 'I'm not gay' - particularly in the time period before he had as solid a reason to censor himself.

I don't think being attracted to the same sex or talking about being attracted to the same sex means anything.

As far as the lost part, I can't reply for mermaid but I can say that as a definitely not-straight person that - removed from the context of Dan and Phil entirely - reading this served as a cold reminder of how easily your own sexuality, if you happen to not be straight, can be dismissed by someone else just because they can't empathize with how you feel or who you feel attracted to.

[kuensukki]

I don't even know whether to take some people seriously or just accept that they're trolling. Yea Dan has stated he was bisexual multiple times and even if you believe it was for attention he has now repeatedly expressed male attraction. I live with liberal people and have never seen guys describe guys as sexually attractive. My friends will say a guy is handsome/attractive but don't add "daddy enter me" like Dan does. Anyway, something that always bothers me about these sexuality discussions is they are always posed In a way to show dan as straight. How about Phil? He had the same coming out as dan and though he was less agressive about phan no one, here or the anti-phan website jump to call him straight. It's an interesting dynamic that he represents half of phan and his sexuality is never brought up? We just assume he's bisexual and never fight to the death that he is straight (like many do for Dan). Is it that we don't care about his sexuality because it t doesn't matter or is it that Dan has some supporters (with subjective motives) who will see him as straight no matter what he does?

Conclusion is that both dan and phil have stated they are bisexual and that's what we will take as word unless they indicate otherwise.

[mermaid blood]

Believing someone when they say they are not gay or not in a relationship is not being heteronormative, it's called not being a dick, imo.

who said believing Dan was being a heteronormative dick?
i agree with you, he's said he's not gay, so i believe him. until he takes back those statements, Dan is NOT gay.

the heteronormativity frustration usually comes from fans coming in and equating Dan *never* saying he is straight with him possibly being straight, yet his self-identification as bisexual and years of attraction to men as not a possibility he is bisexual, at all.

WHERE is the rationale in this thinking, other than heteronormativity? it would not hold up for any other argument in any other context, period. can intelligent people not see the Dr. Seuss bizarro world topsy-turvy logic to this?!!

i'm confused by your statements, framing yourself as the victim from those mean queers on the internet and then peacing out. i have no idea what you self-identify as, but i, like others, probably assumed you speak from a privileged position because, well... you speak like you're privileged dude. haha. i'm sorry if you get hurt this easily from these conversations, but yet work with queer populations; that is disheartening for me to read. because i can assure you, anyone who is constantly and repeatedly doubted and told they are wrong, sinners, unnatural has a much tougher skin than you have acquired. having a tough skin is not a bad thing. stick around, work out the issue, learn, grow. it's not necessary for the privileged population to do this, it's a struggle they can peace out of quite quickly when it doesn't suit. others don't have a choice. it is thrust upon them non-consensually, and they will continually have to 'come out' and defend themselves until the day they die, probably.

what you just did in this conversation is the very definition of privilege.

[Bassoonage]

Ok this is the last post I'm going to make because I don't feel like being attacked anymore. I did say he and Phil are probably bisexual. I also said that sexuality was on a sliding scale. If you are used to being attacked and you natural instinct was to attack back then I'm sorry. That is just not the norm for me.

I'm not an idiot when it comes to gender and sexuality studies, I've actually taken many classes on gender and sexuality and attend conferences regularly to see how we can help all people in the music world regardless of gender identification and sexual preference be seen as equals.

I'm sorry that your natural instinct was to jump down my throat and attack me and laugh at me because you made assumptions about who I am as a person and what I believe.

Also about my "privilege" I don't know what that means, or how you jumped to that conclusion. And it's not that I don't have a thick skin, I just don't have time to fight with people on a forum at midnight.

[eevee]

NSFW
Meanwhile on the phan bus.

Flushed and panting, Dan pauses to catch his breath. 'Phil! You said you'd read IDB updates while I did this!'

'Right' gasps Phil. 'Uh... this person says you seem like you would never suck on a penis.'

'Oh really' Dan says. 'Good. I don't want to give people the wrong idea.'

All conversation trails off as Dan gets back to business.

gimme gimme more gimme more gimme gimme moreeeee

That's my contribution to this, all of you are more eloquent than I could be so I'm just going to sit in the corner and wait while this simmers down. I have feelings about it but I don't feel like entering the fray.

also hey biatchqueen thanks for suggesting Touche Eclat concealer I'm gonna check it out!

[edited to try to be less problematic lol]

[Winston]

NSFW
Meanwhile on the phan bus.

Flushed and panting, Dan pauses to catch his breath. 'Phil! You said you'd read IDB updates while I did this!'

'Right' gasps Phil. 'Uh... this person says you seem like you would never suck on a penis.'

'Oh really' Dan says. 'Good. I don't want to give people the wrong idea.'

All conversation trails off as Dan gets back to business.

gimme gimme more gimme more gimme gimme moreeeee

I believe he is bi because he said he is bisexual and has not refuted that in 7 years.

back up your prejudice better, and i'll have an actual conversation with you.

That's my contribution to this, all of you are more eloquent than I could be so I'm just going to sit in the corner and wait while this simmers down. I have feelings about it but I don't feel like entering the fray.

Ditto! I will just watch. I have opinions as well, but some of you already expressed them far better than I could at 2 am ( I wake up at 4 am for work so almost 24 hours... I can hear myself blink....)

[eevee]

^ brb while I look up spider's fanfics if there are any

[mermaid blood]

Depression: There's a whoollee lot of projection going on in the phandom re: that topic. But as some of you mentioned, most people go through bouts of situational depression in their pre-teens and teens. It's normal, it's often hormonal, and it's a part of life. Kids struggle. It's part of becoming your own person. Struggles with identity and society and really just becoming aware of the world around you and the reality of your part in it all. That being said, often times people who struggle with clinical depression hide it rather well and are not often going to wear it like a t-shirt. Depression can be hidden, even moreso if you choose what parts of yourself to publicly show the internet/world. Unless he outright said "yes, I have clinical depression.", then we will literally never know for sure.

Absolutely agree with this difficulty, and you put it well. except your point kind of highlights why it is so damaging to equate institutional diagnosis as the only accepted method of receiving empathy or having a relatable connection with others who may be suffering.

Dan literally said depression was in his head in march 2014:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxNUqRZ ... l=catrific
7.50

and many, many more things beyond that narrow institutional diagnosis label over the years about being unhappy, and social anxiety. and yet, the (very western, i might add) trend over the last 15-20 years has been to ignore what people express and close down conversations until they seek help from within a sanctified institution, and legitimise their feelings in a way that abdicates responsibility slightly from those around them. the 'sick' are sick, the healthy are healthy, being sad is unhealthy and not worthy of a discussion unless it is framed in the context of trying to get healthier. i absolutely detest this rhetoric. it is very strong in youtube fandoms, also, i've noticed. (possibly the tumblr generation vs people who think Zoella is a lazy shit instead of a GAD sufferer).

arm-chair diagnosing a stranger and stating it as truth is poor form, but dismissing someone's own expressions about their experience is 110% just as shitty. i fail to see what the typicality of teenagers being depressed has to do with a nearly 25 year old man's back catalogue of self-expression on this issue. i hate seeing people's struggles minimised because they haven't made definitive statements, just as someone's sexuality is constantly minimised for the same reason.

Ok this is the last post I'm going to make because I don't feel like being attacked anymore. I did say he and Phil are probably bisexual. I also said that sexuality was on a sliding scale. If you are used to being attacked and you natural instinct was to attack back then I'm sorry. That is just not the norm for me.

I'm not an idiot when it comes to gender and sexuality studies, I've actually taken many classes on gender and sexuality and attend conferences regularly to see how we can help all people in the music world regardless of gender identification and sexual preference be seen as equals.

I'm sorry that your natural instinct was to jump down my throat and attack me and laugh at me because you made assumptions about who I am as a person and what I believe.

Also about my "privilege" I don't know what that means, or how you jumped to that conclusion. And it's not that I don't have a thick skin, I just don't have time to fight with people on a forum at midnight.

Again, not fighting with you. if post your opinions freely, you are going to have people feeling upset over them and wanting to figure out where they come from. which part feels like a 'fight', to you? you're also free to defend yourself, as you have above, and as have the queer people reading your posts.

This is something I see over and over again online, and it doesn't seem to be getting better over the years. I'm really irked by people feeling hurt and assuming they've been called an idiot, when their understanding of an issue they don't experience is challenged. It is ludicrous to me - it would be like me to trying to shame someone of colour for having an adverse reaction to my opinion on their struggles with race. (I am white, by the way!). No amount of classes will ever make me feel black. or have to experience what it feels like to walk through society as someone of ethnicity. the best thing i can do is LISTEN, to those that do. an example of this would be alittledizzy, who just gave a more detailed response about why she was hurt, as a queer person. I'm disappointed that didn't receive your attention, though that is partly my fault for contributing a response that made you want to defend yourself morseo than acknowledge her. I've made incredibly dumb statements in the past trying to equate my experience to those of people who are non-white, and I got shot down for them massively. thank god i did, because I walked away having learned something.

getting shitty at feeling like you're being assumed unintelligent and making people feel ashamed for hurting, and then leaving the conversation without addressing the hurt you provoked in others with your way of interpreting something is a privileged and selfish response, if you needed an another concrete example of what i was talking about. both myself doing that when talking to people of colour in years gone past, and yourself here, tonight.

2old4thisshite if you wanted to come back and discuss your pearl-clutching queers opinion we're all ears. {{clutches my necklace}}


In other news, this is so goddamn adorable:



makes me wanna burst through that backdrop and do this.

[eevee]

In other news, this is so goddamn adorable:



makes me wanna burst through that backdrop and do this.

yo cute, where is that from and what is he doing other than trying to look adorable lmao

[spider]

mermaid blood perfect post. Thanks for eloquently saying what I couldn't.

In other news, this is so goddamn adorable:

makes me wanna burst through that backdrop and do this.

The sweater paws. The pigeon toes.

^ brb while I look up spider's fanfics if there are any

Sorry but they don't exist.

[eevee]

^ brb while I look up spider's fanfics if there are any

Sorry but they don't exist.

[DryCereal]

Seems tumblr didn't find Pewds' video/Phandom-taunting overly funny...

[blueapple_x]

Anyway, something that always bothers me about these sexuality discussions is they are always posed In a way to show dan as straight. How about Phil? He had the same coming out as dan and though he was less agressive about phan no one, here or the anti-phan website jump to call him straight. It's an interesting dynamic that he represents half of phan and his sexuality is never brought up? We just assume he's bisexual and never fight to the death that he is straight (like many do for Dan). Is it that we don't care about his sexuality because it t doesn't matter or is it that Dan has some supporters (with subjective motives) who will see him as straight no matter what he does?

I think the simplest answer to your inquiry would be that Dan gives us more to work with/debate about. Phil came out as bi and never explicitly addressed his sexuality after that time period. Dan came out as bi as well, but he implied he was attention seeking, explicitly said he's not gay/doesn't get aroused by the idea of colliding penises, and now he's back to expressing attraction towards males. Phil has also made some comments (eg. hinting at watching gay porn, hinting at watching Free! for the hot guys) but that doesn't negate the fact that I personally think (and I'm sure others will agree) that Dan gives us more to debate/analyze and that's why he's typically the focus of sexuality discussions.