Dan & Phil Part 13: So Bored That This Is Our Thread Name

[spider]

I don't think they're going anywhere but Dan saying Youtube was all he had was kinda weird to me, because if you really think about it and are really truthful, at this point Youtube is NOT all he has.

There are 2 reasons I can think of for Dan saying that.

• It was a video for the Youtube audience. A lot of his viewers are only casual fans who maybe don't know about the other parts of his career.
• Dan feels like all his opportunities are because of Youtube. He worries about his Youtube because he thinks if it stops being successful his other opportunities will dry up and he won't get new opportunities.

Like greatnessflicker said he made a joke that also had truth in it. He exaggerated it to be funny but he probably does worry about it.

So if Dan was playing the DS in bed and set it down on the left side (and presumably slept on the left side), then who's water bottle is that on the right side??

They even sleep in their persona order... Dan on the left, Phil on the right!

It depends cuz Dan usually put stuff on top of both his side tables at his London home.

Dan lived in that home for almost 4 years now and his room is his own so of course he would put stuff on all his tables. When you go to a hotel you don't spread out your stuff as much especially if you're only staying a few days like Deppy. You probably put all your stuff on 1 table so it's close when you need it.

Maybe they got 2 rooms but why? They had a room with 2 beds at the motel where they did the liveshow and Undertale. The hotel rizzo found had 2 bed options too. Why would they get 2 rooms with 1 king bed instead of 1 room with 2 queen beds?


Don't worry anti phans. They were p-l-a-t-o-n-i-c cuddling.

I've hinted at this being my opinion before, but is it reaching too much to assume that the leaking of the valentine's day video was a major factor into him closing himself up and tightening his persona?

Isn't it what most of IDBers think? Or maybe not but I agree.

[greatnessflicker]

I don't think they're going anywhere but Dan saying Youtube was all he had was kinda weird to me, because if you really think about it and are really truthful, at this point Youtube is NOT all he has.

There are 2 reasons I can think of for Dan saying that.

• It was a video for the Youtube audience. A lot of his viewers are only casual fans who maybe don't know about the other parts of his career.
• Dan feels like all his opportunities are because of Youtube. He worries about his Youtube because he thinks if it stops being successful his other opportunities will dry up and he won't get new opportunities.

Like greatnessflicker said he made a joke that also had truth in it. He exaggerated it to be funny but he probably does worry about it.

I especially agree with your second point. If Dan stops being relevant for whatever reason (mostly likely bc fans and trends are capricious at best and it doesn't take much to lose a large group's interest), the BBC won't have a reason to hire him for projects similar to radio shows, award show hosting, and documentary-filming. That said, I know very little about the entertainment industry, but I imagine that while we perceive Dan and Phil as having had varied opportunities, it won't get them as far as people with more formal training if they lose their popularity.

I've hinted at this being my opinion before, but is it reaching too much to assume that the leaking of the valentine's day video was a major factor into him closing himself up and tightening his persona?

Isn't it what most of IDBers think? Or maybe not but I agree.

Perhaps! I remember alittledizzy chiming in with some insightful comments when I brought this up before, but I think that we (or at least I) tend to forget/minimize the valentine's day video's effect on Phil just because he does such a good job at remaining neutral compared to Dan's response to it, when, in some sense, Phil had a lot more to lose from it than Dan did.

[azara]

Hi everyone! I'm new here, used to read GG (was never an active member, the environment is toxic!) and when the D&P thread died and there were cryptic posts about going elsewhere - the ones so obscure the board couldn't reasonably delete them - I went for a hunt and found this place.

Anyway, I wanted to weigh in on why Dan said Youtube was all he has. I don't actually think this is completely true anymore, but I think there are still elements of truth.

Dan and Phil can be equated to an up-and-coming Ant and Dec. Obviously, they're nowhere near as famous or beloved, and they got the job based on their Youtube audience, but that's the vibe they're going for. Two funny guys, best friends, quite similar, making lighthearted and sarcastic commentary while serious things go on and (hopefully) winning over the public. I get the impression they're actually slowly gaining popularity as "funny BBC presenters" outside of their Youtube fanbase, who migrate over to the BBC channels, radio, and mediums to watch them. They're invited onto other radio shows, they know some pretty important people at the BBC, and they increasingly have a hosting role; they aren't cocooned in this "Internet Takeover" show that the other Youtubers-come-radio presenters are. At this point, most of their support still comes from Youtube, but as they grow bigger and are given more opportunities - and they get more and more from the BBC each year - they're going to have a very nice, non-Youtube platform to grow organically.

Still, I think Dan is acutely aware (and I'm sure Phil is too) that his BBC support currently relies, and that his Youtube channel has to continue growing so that his BBC stuff can grow too. Eventually, he won't need Youtube, but as of now, it's still the reason *all the rest* keeps functioning. It's not true that he needs Youtube or has nothing else to fall back on, but to continue being successful, he does need it.

So much over-analysis, I'm becoming trash already. *shrugs* may as well put the lid on over my head while I'm at it?

Just my opinion

[tilltomorrow]

I'm almost rooting for the "he has his own room" side just bc regardless of current phan/anti-phan/platonic bros combination, they've been around each other (and other people) nearly non-stop for a while...

I feel like a single room would just be for the sake of sanity for people who are normally more on the hermit side of social interaction..

[teamug]

I enjoyed dans' exam vid far more than I thought I would. Maybe its' because I've not been faced with exams in almost a decade, but I laughed outloud so much. The title, subject matter, thumbnail, reading opinons on idb beforehand, well, having bottom of the barrel expectations probably helped, the evil one inside me enjoys the anguish of those now facing exams, hah been there, suffered that.
The overacting, unfunny funny jokes, in this video they fit. Maybe it's just me, but it seemed subtly 'making fun of himself for doing this vid'.
Don't really get why Dans' youtube comment has taken such a serious turn. I thought he was just telling a joke, his running gag about 'what is my life'.
The only disturbing part was when (in the parts he sits in his weed shirt in the chair) his head looks so much smaller than his hands (due to camera angle, but still)

[sweetmm]

If they have connecting rooms, it makes more sense to rent 2 rooms as they intend on filming. One for them to stay in with their luggage and junks, one to keep it clean and tidy for the filming.

[azara]

Don't really get why Dans' youtube comment has taken such a serious turn. I thought he was just telling a joke, his running gag about 'what is my life'.

True, I don't think he intended for it to be serious, but I've recently been musing about the interesting career situation internet personalities can find themselves in, and this comment provided the trigger for me to share. I think D&P have been some of the most successful transferring internet fame to a long-term, offline profession. It's all very well to bring out a makeup or a clothing line, or to write a book, but those things don't make a career in the long term.

[coffee pig]

I've been trying to work out what I don't like so much about Phil. Feel free to skip this post. It is mostly just cathartic for me. I've realized that what I find offputting about him is where we see his moments of insecurity. Like in the chat logs video about how his girlfriend broke up with him, or when he has mentioned being bullied at school. I guess that I don't like his impassive attitude about these things. And this definitely relates back to me and a fear of feeling out of control in my life (personal shit- I've just learned recently that when you have that gut dislike, it often is a reflection on your own unconscious).
Dan definitely shows his insecurity. But then he always seems to be searching for answers. Then he will say things like 'This is the happiest I've been in my life', and I feel good for him. He has moments of real confidence that I really like about him.
I realized this through thinking about how content that I like from Phil is things like DanandPhilCrafts, or his old vids where he either acted more confident or played an interesting character. So I guess that 'manchild' Phil for me is the one who puts himself down or acts really ditzy. I like the image of self-confident Phil, but I don't feel like I ever get to see it.

I've hinted at this being my opinion before, but is it reaching too much to assume that the leaking of the valentine's day video was a major factor into him closing himself up and tightening his persona? Like, we all talk about dan's reaction because he was vocal about it, but I think Phil's silence says much more. If I filmed something that intimate and then it became publicly available, I would definitely alter my image and try to avoid being put into that vulnerable state

I'm going I'm going to argue that Phil has always had a ""persona" of sorts, from the very beginning. He was always AmazingPhil on camera. Phil didn't even let his audience know his last name until about 2011, and even in the older, oversharing days of Youtube we know pretty much nothing about his past relationships or or sex life or anything...he has never been a particularly open book. I would argue that he's only become more private because his audience has grown so exponentially. I'm going to be that annoying person and remind everyone that we still don't know if Voldy was real.

[phamnotof]

I was never one to join in on the #busgate or japhan festivities (though lbr i thoroughly enjoy reading it all), so I don't know what brought me to do this, but if you're up for joining me in being mildly creepy.... well...

I figured out which hotel Dan filmed his video in. Hilariously, I feel mildly uncomfortable naming the place, but I'm sure you all know the internet well enough to figure it out from here:



So, unless more hotels were modeled to look like this recently-renovated one.... he filmed in Nashville. Which confirms that his tweets about filming/editing can be days late to throw people off - but we already knew that. And maybe he did actually film on Monday night. The little shit.

The hotel says they have connecting rooms, so that's a possibility, but his video sure looks like a regular ol' King bedroom to me.

Also, didn't he refute someone claiming they'd seen him at an airport? Anyway. Forgive me for this smelly but I figure some of you may enjoy it.

So, how 'bout that ?

So "nobody saw us in the airport" my ass then. Interesting. It could be a double bedroom, they'v got those & they're pretty similar looking, I'm gonna try and determine which one it is mostly because I'm bored as fuck & need entertainment. Also, he must have filmed the shower bits in a different place, right? That shower looked like shit & this hotel is actually pretty nice.
ETA: The bed Dan was filming next to is way smaller than the king sized bed, I think, so probs the joining rooms that seem to look exactly like the one pictured above.

Now I think the are pretty dead right about now... RIP, Poe.

[sunday]

Ooh time for some OPINIONS

I like Phil but it's hard for me to be as fond of him as I am of Dan, just because he shares so much less with us. That's not to say that I think I know Dan inside out, but Dan shares so much more of himself with his audience (e.g. his insecurities) whereas Phil is very closed-off. He provides light-hearted, pure entertainment, and doesn't touch on serious issues e.g. he avoided the death question in his collab with Hazel. His branding is all about providing an escape from the sometimes shitty parts of the real world and that's totally fine, but as a result it's harder for me to relate to him as a person

On a more basic level I also think I share a lot more personality traits/interests with Dan e.g. existential crisis, little it socially awkward, very left-wing opinions, memes etc. I'm not into animal facts, sugary desserts, or horror films/books.

Re Voldy: Phil comes across as someone who's quite private regardless of whether Voldy had been leaked. However I don't think Voldy helped. It also doesn't really matter to me if it was real or not - regardless of whether it was real or a prank, it's still an embarrassing thing to have leaked all over the internet.
Before someone says 'but if it was a prank why was he embarrassed?' - because they decided against posting it as a prank, and when it was leaked (and subsequently re-leaked) the shippers had likely grown in numbers and they knew that people would think it was real, that's why
(i'm not claiming to KNOW it was a prank, I'm just saying, there's logical reasons behind why he would be embarrassed of it being released if it was a prank)

this was a little bit aggressive towards the end there lmao sorry I didn't mean for it to come across that way!

[sweetmm]

bedhead91 I will say because Phil was pretty smart and conscious even then that what posted will be online forever and he does not intend to share Phil Lester but AmazingPhil with the public. He uses youtube not to bring strangers into his life but to project and share his art/expression/ideas towards the public. He is very selective on what the public should know about Phil Lester and for that fact

the accident with voldy vid must had been such a hard slap on his face

[ironic]

All this YouTube talk is making me realize that I don't like their channels at all, what am I even doing here, let me out.

See, I wasn't into YouTube at all before I found D&P (last august/september) and I only subscribed to Dan's channel so he would stop screaming 'SEX' at me everytime I went to check it out. (And quickly after that I subscribed to Phil for no reason other than that they appeared to me as a joined brand.)
What draw me to Dan was his relatability, for sure, and those sketch videos that suit my sense of humour. But the same ralatability can be boring and annoying af when he's talking about nothing but obvious stuff. And a lot of his jokes, especially those involving some internet trends, aren't really funny if you're out of the loop. Still, the fact that he's more connecting to the audience is probs why he has more subscribers than Phil.
It's ironic how Phil's channel (at least to me) seems actually more personal than Dan's even though he's the one perceived as a closed book. He's mostly talking about himself and the stories from his life, which I think is not that interesting unless you like that kind of youtubers or unless you're already invested in him. To be honest, I wouldn't give a crap about a random guy talking about random things that happen to him if I found his channel only. And I think there's probably just more people like me.
And I personally don't care about the difference between their subscribers count 'cause I like them both the same (and their solo YouTube channels are not the reasons why I like them). They're not rivals, they're both benefiting from each other. Their relationship (whatever that is) is the most engrossing thing about them.

One thing that always baffles me is the idea that people would subscribe to Dan just because they find him attractive. Is that really something people do??

As for the personas. I still think we tend to perceive the things we don't like about them as not parts of their real personalities. Of course they're acting a bit but aren't we all irl? People are different with different people, that doesn't make them less "them". (What a great sentence )

But that's just like, my opinion, man.

[coffee pig]

All very true sweetmm.

This is random, but I'd like to see Dan collaborate with Troye Sivan next... even though it would probably be slightly awkward. They both have a similar sense of humor (and both have a crush on Dylan O'Brien apparently. ) Also, I want to see if Dan would fangirl over Troye a bit as he's expressed his...lust jealousy of Troye's appearance in the past.

idk I'm trash and I like Troye

[blueapple_x]

I was never one to join in on the #busgate or japhan festivities (though lbr i thoroughly enjoy reading it all), so I don't know what brought me to do this, but if you're up for joining me in being mildly creepy.... well...

I figured out which hotel Dan filmed his video in. Hilariously, I feel mildly uncomfortable naming the place, but I'm sure you all know the internet well enough to figure it out from here:



So, unless more hotels were modeled to look like this recently-renovated one.... he filmed in Nashville. Which confirms that his tweets about filming/editing can be days late to throw people off - but we already knew that. And maybe he did actually film on Monday night. The little shit.

The hotel says they have connecting rooms, so that's a possibility, but his video sure looks like a regular ol' King bedroom to me.

Also, didn't he refute someone claiming they'd seen him at an airport? Anyway. Forgive me for this smelly but I figure some of you may enjoy it.

So, how 'bout that ?

So "nobody saw us in the airport" my ass then. Interesting.

I didn't bother to try to figure out which hotel they stayed at but based on your reactions I'm guessing this particular hotel is in an airport? Otherwise I don't understand why this means he was lying about not being at an airport. Can anyone confirm?

[sweetmm]

All very true sweetmm.

This is random, but I'd like to see Dan collaborate with Troye Sivan next... even though it would probably be slightly awkward. They both have a similar sense of humor (and both have a crush on Dylan O'Brien apparently. ) Also, I want to see if Dan would fangirl over Troye a bit as he's expressed his...lust jealousy of Troye's appearance in the past.

[offtopic]My goodness this is so offtopic but when you mentioned Troye, I just need to vent it here.

I can't believe he took a new boy just a few months after Connor, I'm going to guess that Tyler/Connor had a "squabble" before most probably because Tyler warned Connor about Troye, hence why now Tyler & Connor are close again.

Sorry I had no one to vent off with at gigi

[/offtopic]

[hunnyftw]

I was never one to join in on the #busgate or japhan festivities (though lbr i thoroughly enjoy reading it all), so I don't know what brought me to do this, but if you're up for joining me in being mildly creepy.... well...

I figured out which hotel Dan filmed his video in. Hilariously, I feel mildly uncomfortable naming the place, but I'm sure you all know the internet well enough to figure it out from here:



So, unless more hotels were modeled to look like this recently-renovated one.... he filmed in Nashville. Which confirms that his tweets about filming/editing can be days late to throw people off - but we already knew that. And maybe he did actually film on Monday night. The little shit.

The hotel says they have connecting rooms, so that's a possibility, but his video sure looks like a regular ol' King bedroom to me.

Also, didn't he refute someone claiming they'd seen him at an airport? Anyway. Forgive me for this smelly but I figure some of you may enjoy it.

So, how 'bout that ?

So "nobody saw us in the airport" my ass then. Interesting.

I didn't bother to try to figure out which hotel they stayed at but based on your reactions I'm guessing this particular hotel is in an airport? Otherwise I don't understand why this means he was lying about not being at an airport. Can anyone confirm?

Yes, sir. Next to an airport.

[districthirteen]

I've hinted at this being my opinion before, but is it reaching too much to assume that the leaking of the valentine's day video was a major factor into him closing himself up and tightening his persona?

Isn't it what most of IDBers think? Or maybe not but I agree.

Perhaps! I remember alittledizzy chiming in with some insightful comments when I brought this up before, but I think that we (or at least I) tend to forget/minimize the valentine's day video's effect on Phil just because he does such a good job at remaining neutral compared to Dan's response to it, when, in some sense, Phil had a lot more to lose from it than Dan did.

I would love to hear more about why you say this! Do you mean it in the sense that he was the creator of the video / his preference for keeping aspects of himself private / something else entirely?



About Phil's content, I'd just want to see him state some more meaningful opinions every now and then. I mean, I enjoy his current videos (actually quite love the Creepy Doll video that airport story is hilarious), but come on Philip you're almost 30 I'm sure you have opinions on things that matter and I would love to hear them and have them influence my world view a bit because I have faith in you as a human being and trust your judgement. It upsets me that he's wasting all these opportunities and is being all "oh I would become a robot so I can escape death end of discussion back to houseplants now."
I'm not saying danisnotonfire is a pool of wisdom on criticising society etc or whatever either, but I guess to me, his frequent opinions on the likes of pop culture occasionally offer better glimpses to his take on the world? (I have no idea if I'm making sense anymore sorry) Or even just insights into his own psyche - which helps Dan's presentation of himself feel a lot more 3D than Phil does, possibly also why he has a larger viewership?

I get that their channels/online presence are intended to be light-hearted entertainment and 80% of the time I love them for the foolish grins they put on my face. The other 20% has me very frustrated because I want to know moreeeee. Perhaps I have higher expectations for Phil since he is a whole lot older than I am (as opposed to Dan who's only a couple years so) and I hope I'm not being ageist but I do wonder how all the additional years of life experience (and even minor things like sticking through Youtube for many years before Twitter even existed) shaped Phil's perspective. And to have AmazingPhil dash all those hopes and dreams is very disappointing. I'm not saying he owes us all/any of his opinions, but I really wish he would let us in more.

Or maybe I'm just looking for those perspectives from the wrong genre of youtube channels lol time to retreat to the land of vlogbrothers? Maybe introducing serious topics would make D&P lose much of their characteristic humour and they might not want that / their audience would lose the reason they started watching in the first place? But well, Idk - oh gosh how do youtube channels even mature in content over the years? An example that came to mind is Charlie McDonnell who has lost so much of his previous fans after he changed the tone of his channel which I find a huge pity. This Youtube game is hard... but I hope D&P are smart enough to be able to play it well, and hopefully not in a way that alienates the more mature viewers? (Though that being said I still lap up all their content regardless, if how hard I laughed at Dan's periodic table song was any indication So I can't blame them at all if they don't feel an urgent need for any change lol.)

[lonely trash]

I don't think I'd want a more serious Phil. I mean, I wouldn't hate it, just the general reason that I've always preferred Phil's content is because it's never as serious. I'm generally a very negative and sad person, so I try to stray away from serious topics in my free time as much as I possibly can.

Maybe if it was only an occasional thing, I'm sure he has some pretty interesting outlooks on life which we never see, but I probably wouldn't watch them.

[Anonymousse]

[offtopic]My goodness this is so offtopic but when you mentioned Troye, I just need to vent it here.

I can't believe he took a new boy just a few months after Connor, I'm going to guess that Tyler/Connor had a "squabble" before most probably because Tyler warned Connor about Troye, hence why now Tyler & Connor are close again.

Sorry I had no one to vent off with at gigi

[/offtopic]

Please, I need a deep elaboration and explanation in their main thread, what is going on what tell me I need to know.

---

Sorry I was asleep but there is one thing I want to say about the whole "persona" (the p word, noo) thing. I have always thought that Phil's want to have houseplants is very out of the "youth oriented" persona. How many people really want to have different kind of houseplants when they are young - most of them won't even care to take care of them.

[offtopic]

And like why does he like houseplants soo much? The plants don't judge him? The plants can live for a very long time? I wonder...

[/offtopic]

I'm just blabbering now.

[bluebox-away]

Wow I go to a party, get drunk and sleep and wake up to a new Dan video and a tonne of IDB to catch up on! I haven't caught up on the thread yet but my first reaction to the new dinof is that I'm glad he made it so self aware and I liked the little sketches he did, definitely better than I expected all round
I especially loved his little comments like 'am I actually gonna make that joke..?', felt like we saw the real Dan peeking through amongst the jokes somehow? idk
Now I'm going out for the day before I have time to catch up so I'm seriously gonna have like 20 pages to read tonight

[akui]

Sorry I was asleep but there is one thing I want to say about the whole "persona" (the p word, noo) thing. I have always thought that Phil's want to have houseplants is very out of the "youth oriented" persona. How many people really want to have different kind of houseplants when they are young - most of them won't even care to take care of them.

[offtopic]

And like why does he like houseplants soo much? The plants don't judge him? The plants can live for a very long time? I wonder...

[/offtopic]

I'm just blabbering now.

Oh god there are so many things now in your avatar LMAO

I think he started buying houseplant because he misses having a garden, but then he kinda can't stop himself, that's my guess tho. And he can also look at the plants when he is getting annoyed with Dan. Or that he thinks the houseplants are the children that he couldn't have now.

I have friends who like plants and also around Dan-Phil's age, that's not old right? But they all like full on plant it from a seed type of person... My mum and grandma are like Phil in terms of plant, but they all very lonely without children or husband by their side. (This is getting dark, back to the bin! )

[hiddenwombat]

[offtopic]

And like why does he like houseplants soo much? The plants don't judge him? The plants can live for a very long time? I wonder...

[/offtopic]

I'm just blabbering now.

i think he just desperately wants a pet/child/SOMETHING to take care of but he's not allowed any of that so he's collecting plant children. (they do all have names.) he keeps nagging dan for a tiny apartment friendly pet like a hamster and seeing as he grew up with pets, it probably feels like there's a small void in the house.

[sweetmm]

[offtopic]My goodness this is so offtopic but when you mentioned Troye, I just need to vent it here.

I can't believe he took a new boy just a few months after Connor, I'm going to guess that Tyler/Connor had a "squabble" before most probably because Tyler warned Connor about Troye, hence why now Tyler & Connor are close again.

Sorry I had no one to vent off with at gigi

[/offtopic]

Please, I need a deep elaboration and explanation in their main thread, what is going on what tell me I need to know.

---

[offtopic]Done posted the pics on the thread [/offtopic]

[Ticia]

I was never one to join in on the #busgate or japhan festivities (though lbr i thoroughly enjoy reading it all), so I don't know what brought me to do this, but if you're up for joining me in being mildly creepy.... well...

I figured out which hotel Dan filmed his video in. Hilariously, I feel mildly uncomfortable naming the place, but I'm sure you all know the internet well enough to figure it out from here:



So, unless more hotels were modeled to look like this recently-renovated one.... he filmed in Nashville. Which confirms that his tweets about filming/editing can be days late to throw people off - but we already knew that. And maybe he did actually film on Monday night. The little shit.

The hotel says they have connecting rooms, so that's a possibility, but his video sure looks like a regular ol' King bedroom to me.

Also, didn't he refute someone claiming they'd seen him at an airport? Anyway. Forgive me for this smelly but I figure some of you may enjoy it.

So, how 'bout that ?

This is the content I signed up for

kuensukki: I couldn't have worded it better, thank you. I'd like to add that I think the "insecurities" element has been absorbed by Dan's brand and, don't get me wrong, he has had his fair share of self-esteem issues (and still has to this day). Phil has mentioned a couple of times he was bullied in school, and there's also the manliness façade (brought up in the last thread).

Assuming that the Vday video is real, it being public surely didn't help him on this matter and, well, the Youtube career is a tough one if your ego isn't the size of the Empire State building and Phil has been in it for +10 years, subjected to permanent criticism, whether it's good or bad-natured (obsessive and rude danasaurs, ahem).

What I want to say here is that both have strong reasons to be insecure, but Dan successfully made it part of his #relatable brand and Phil decided to sweep it under the rug and put a nice plant over the top. Even though I'd love Phil to open a tad and using his LessAmazingPhil channel more frequently, I like them both in their own way. I mean, it wouldn't hurt a Toxic lip-syncing of Phil in the shower 2.0, but a girl can only dream.

[LurkingTrash]

this is a really unhelpful comment to the discussion but....
Seeing the array of opinions on the last few pages and me being able to see people's sides (if not agree with a lot of them) is kinda of a slap on my face of how much of our discussions is guess-work based on what we perceive of them, I'm sad that we will probably never have 100% sure answers to them even if it's exactly that what keeps so many people with their eyeballs glued on their movements