melon lord wrote: But it's different when you have no association with onion, you don't even want to have one. You live your life and he lives his. Then he pulls off this action and suddenly people are taking your body and life and initiating these images that you never wanted to be a part of. It's an emotional violation. People aren't caring about what you think or want. Fans aren't thinking that maybe Dan doesn't want this. They think this is hilarious and are going to disgusting measures to spread the word and even just calling it a "joke" on twitter and such.
For future reference, this is Dan's 'pissed' face: (from plester.tumblr.com)
Re: the article
Return of the Grammar Nazi:
collabs that keep us laughing.The pair started off posted random videos on their channel
but it wasn’t until 2009 when the two collaborated and gave the world “Phil Is Not On Fire” — and the rest is history.
General Cringeyness:
Whenever they host together — because it’s #PHAN OR DIE. Jk.
The gif choice for "anytime they dance together".
But the "article" wasn't as bad as the Shout ones tbh
bluntedclaws wrote:I'm actually starting to wonder if Dan even knew about Onion's request during his ls. Obviously, he dislikes onion and wanted us to know that he was frustrated at people in the chat for spamming but it's entirely possible that he was unaware of the context for the spam.
He honestly has never seemed to have any problem with fans sexualizing him. From what I've seen of him he usually finds it hilarious. Remember "penises and Dan"? I know onion is technically a peer rather than a fan but I can't imagine dan would care that much.
No, he knows. He's a hardcore lurker and there's countless references to it in his @ replies and tumblr tags. I'm not going to pretend to know how much he actually cares, meaning how much it personally bothers him or for what reasons, but if he took the time to address it (however vaguely), it bothers him enough to not fully ignore it (which he's fully capable of doing with all the other constant spam and references to things in the chat and PMs that he doesn't want to discuss).
This is off-topic I guess and old news, but I want to put it somewhere. Finally saw some footage of the Fandom Panel at SITC, which had Evan, Luke, and Tomska on it. Nobody actually brought up D&P directly, but I thought there was some interesting stuff said:
Part 1
(videos linked at the end)
3:55 Evan: If you’re in a fandom for another creator, do you feel like that may affect the relationship you have with the creator, now that you are a creator, do you have to have a bit more chill?
Luke: I mean, me and Evan have both suffered from that, I think. Yeah. (turns to look at Tomska, Tomska makes a ‘keep me out of this’ face haha because he knows exactly what they’re talking about)
6:20 Evan: How can fandoms be a force for good?
Tom: Fandoms can be a force for good if they are directed to be a force for good. Every creator has power over their fandom, they do, otherwise they wouldn’t pay money to meet them, to buy their merch, and all that stuff. So you have the power to [sell merch] and that’s fine, but you also have the power to steer them toward other things, like charitable causes, positive thinking, positive actions. So it’s really just about the message you send.
7:40 Evan: How can fandoms be a force for evil?
Tom: [doesn’t want a fandom as they’re like a scary mob. took steps to distance himself from his audience when he felt things got weird and mob-like]
Part 2
Luke: If I see somebody who likes me being horrible online, I don’t have a problem tweeting them, calling them out on it and saying ‘stop, that’s not nice behaviour’ Evan: So is it your responsibility as a creator to sort of guide your audience into acting more positively?
Luke: (agrees) "If you spend 20 minutes a day sorting your own fandom out”, you'll reap rewards blah blah blah
[okay but logistically for D&P, 20 mins a day wouldn’t be nearly enough to hunt down every person with one of them as their profile pic saying dumb shit. Isn’t that somewhat what Dan attempted in 2012 (I mean, sort of, kind of, in a way) and look how well-received and effective that was. Look, even if he had been 'nicer' about it, people would have kept doing everything they were doing, lbr.
They promote kindness and not being douches, #nicerinternet and all that, yet everybody still blames them for not herding the phandom properly. It’s kind of too big for them to control, is it not? Like. Really.]
7:00 Evan: Have you ever been personally victimized by fandoms?
Tom: The fandom? (phandom? )
Evan: The fandomSss
Tom: Yes
(but he’s talking about like Alfie and whatnot/people he’s ‘disagreed’ with, afaik he's never personally had beef with D&P and their fans)
Part 3
3:30
Shipping talk: how it affects IRL relationships. Dangers of sharing relationship online
(Tom @ 5:05: “when we parted ways, from witnessing other YTers who had been in public relationships that ended, I knew what would happen next”
“we’d let people in [to our relationship], and that meant we also had to show them out again”)
9:20
Luke: This is something I’ve massively experienced myself. If you’re in a fandom, you are, to the rest of the internet, a representative of the person you’re a fan of. I won’t name names, but this happened to me where I had fan groups attacking me and for awhile some fan groups didn’t like me. They had profile pictures of a YTer, and I started to attribute that negative feedback (Evan cuts in with: “same here”) and hate to that YTer. So much so that for about two years, I thought [the YTer] hated me, even though—
VIDEO CUTS OFF AND THERE’S NO MORE FOOTAGE. God. damn. it. It was just getting into what I really wanted to hear. He was obviously talking about Dan.
Confirmation though that their fans aren't doing D&P any favours with other creators by being annoying online. I mean, we already knew that, but still.
Anyway, he didn’t bother mentioning why a group of fans might dislike him or be attacking him; was it for no reason, Luke? Really? unless he did elaborate and that’s in the non-existent footage but probably not
Anyway it just reiterated what I already thought: D&P can't win when it comes to "directing" their fanbase. If they say now, after it already happened on just about every stop on tour, 'don't visit us at the airport, we don't like it', that will result in even more hate thrown to the people who did it. If Dan says directly to stop being gross for onion's benefit, hordes would flock to his videos to spam (Streisand effect) and berate the people participating in the contest. Ignoring it is just letting it happen (but yeah, it's happening either way so there's no 'winning' there anyway).
I don't know, I get annoyed when people just roll their eyes like 'ugh Dan/Phil just staying out of drama, not calling people out as usual' (like over art reposting/whatever else that goes on), but calling out a person or specific thing (like airport stalkers) will direct an overwhelming amount of negative attention to those specific people involved even if D&P say not to. And D&P know that. So saying vaguer 'hey don't repost art please, be nice online please, take a chill pill in general please' is the least destructive thing they can do, and they do that. #nicerinternet, zen liveshow monologues, etc. It's not their fault too many people in general are self-absorbed jackholes who just do what they want without realizing or even caring that it's not cool. Why am I ranting, I don't know. I need a sims vid.
bluntedclaws wrote:
This is off-topic I guess and old news, but I want to put it somewhere. Finally saw some footage of the Fandom Panel at SITC, which had Evan, Luke, and Tomska on it. Nobody actually brought up D&P directly, but I thought there was some interesting stuff said:
Part 1
(videos linked at the end)
3:55 Evan: If you’re in a fandom for another creator, do you feel like that may affect the relationship you have with the creator, now that you are a creator, do you have to have a bit more chill?
Luke: I mean, me and Evan have both suffered from that, I think. Yeah. (turns to look at Tomska, Tomska makes a ‘keep me out of this’ face haha because he knows exactly what they’re talking about)
6:20 Evan: How can fandoms be a force for good?
Tom: Fandoms can be a force for good if they are directed to be a force for good. Every creator has power over their fandom, they do, otherwise they wouldn’t pay money to meet them, to buy their merch, and all that stuff. So you have the power to [sell merch] and that’s fine, but you also have the power to steer them toward other things, like charitable causes, positive thinking, positive actions. So it’s really just about the message you send.
7:40 Evan: How can fandoms be a force for evil?
Tom: [doesn’t want a fandom as they’re like a scary mob. took steps to distance himself from his audience when he felt things got weird and mob-like]
Part 2
Luke: If I see somebody who likes me being horrible online, I don’t have a problem tweeting them, calling them out on it and saying ‘stop, that’s not nice behaviour’ Evan: So is it your responsibility as a creator to sort of guide your audience into acting more positively?
Luke: (agrees) "If you spend 20 minutes a day sorting your own fandom out”, you'll reap rewards blah blah blah
[okay but logistically for D&P, 20 mins a day wouldn’t be nearly enough to hunt down every person with one of them as their profile pic saying dumb shit. Isn’t that somewhat what Dan attempted in 2012 (I mean, sort of, kind of, in a way) and look how well-received and effective that was. Look, even if he had been 'nicer' about it, people would have kept doing everything they were doing, lbr.
They promote kindness and not being douches, #nicerinternet and all that, yet everybody still blames them for not herding the phandom properly. It’s kind of too big for them to control, is it not? Like. Really.]
7:00 Evan: Have you ever been personally victimized by fandoms?
Tom: The fandom? (phandom? )
Evan: The fandomSss
Tom: Yes
(but he’s talking about like Alfie and whatnot/people he’s ‘disagreed’ with, afaik he's never personally had beef with D&P and their fans)
Part 3
3:30
Shipping talk: how it affects IRL relationships. Dangers of sharing relationship online
(Tom @ 5:05: “when we parted ways, from witnessing other YTers who had been in public relationships that ended, I knew what would happen next”
“we’d let people in [to our relationship], and that meant we also had to show them out again”)
9:20
Luke: This is something I’ve massively experienced myself. If you’re in a fandom, you are, to the rest of the internet, a representative of the person you’re a fan of. I won’t name names, but this happened to me where I had fan groups attacking me and for awhile some fan groups didn’t like me. They had profile pictures of a YTer, and I started to attribute that negative feedback (Evan cuts in with: “same here”) and hate to that YTer. So much so that for about two years, I thought [the YTer] hated me, even though—
VIDEO CUTS OFF AND THERE’S NO MORE FOOTAGE. God. damn. it. It was just getting into what I really wanted to hear. He was obviously talking about Dan.
Confirmation though that their fans aren't doing D&P any favours with other creators by being annoying online. I mean, we already knew that, but still.
Anyway, he didn’t bother mentioning why a group of fans might dislike him or be attacking him; was it for no reason, Luke? Really? unless he did elaborate and that’s in the non-existent footage but probably not
Anyway it just reiterated what I already thought: D&P can't win when it comes to "directing" their fanbase. If they say now, after it already happened on just about every stop on tour, 'don't visit us at the airport, we don't like it', that will result in even more hate thrown to the people who did it. If Dan says directly to stop being gross for onion's benefit, hordes would flock to his videos to spam (Streisand effect) and berate the people participating in the contest. Ignoring it is just letting it happen (but yeah, it's happening either way so there's no 'winning' there anyway).
I don't know, I get annoyed when people just roll their eyes like 'ugh Dan/Phil just staying out of drama, not calling people out as usual' (like over art reposting/whatever else that goes on), but calling out a person or specific thing (like airport stalkers) will direct an overwhelming amount of negative attention to those specific people involved even if D&P say not to. And D&P know that. So saying vaguer 'hey don't repost art please, be nice online please, take a chill pill in general please' is the least destructive thing they can do, and they do that. #nicerinternet, zen liveshow monologues, etc. It's not their fault too many people in general are self-absorbed jackholes who just do what they want without realizing or even caring that it's not cool. Why am I ranting, I don't know. I need a sims vid.
You put my thoughts into words. Dnp can't win, no matter what. If they address their fandom about a problem, they'll get hate for being "rude" to fans and people will be like "we pay your rent so shut up!" and the people involved will get hate and feel awful.
If they don't address it, the problem goes on. People groan about how they're not addressing their fandom and how they're just supporting the bad things the phandom does.
Same with phan. Whatever the truth is, a portion of the phandom will scream and get really mad at them. It's sad. Poor guys.
I also think that the phandom is giving dnp a bad reputation with their youtube peers. All the Youtubers seem to regard them as 'those youtubers with the cringey fan base that are spamming our videos.'
bluewho wrote:
For future reference, this is Dan's 'pissed' face: (from plester.tumblr.com)
RIGHT I would like to call upon this gif that you have so kindly laid upon us.
Often after liveshows there's whispering of Dan seeming 'maybe annoyed' or 'in a bit of a mood' from subtleties and I would like to point you all to a fact we have known about Dan longtime: you can read him like a book. Like a fucking children's book in size 20 font with pictures to illustrate the meaning. He is NOT good at hiding his emotions/reactions. Phil could teach him a thing or two about schooling his expressions.
Anyway - look at that gif. Look at it. His face SCREAMS 'right you're annoying me now' and its just so obvious.
So next time anyone thinks he was a bit off from subtle clues, I'll call you back to that gif which is about as subtle as a dick in the ass. He isn't subtle, and if he's annoyed we'll damn sure know about it
edit Jesp your phrasing makes me trololol
I wonder how biology can explain the physical pain you feel in your chest when all you want to do is talk shit on IDB
I agree with fancybum I don't hold D&P remotely responsible for their fans as I don't think anything they could do would keep them in line.
I actually think the phandom is a good example of how trying to control fan behaviour can go horribly wrong because Dan trying and their mutual war on Voldy (Phil might have been behind the scenes but he was there) brought about the phandoms particular zealous brand of self-policing and that in turn brought all the trolls to the phandoms yard.
I really do think a lot of these people out there with their icon pictures of D&P who are claiming to love them but while mostly just being gross and hateful are actually way more into the attention the phandom gives them then D&P themselves. The phandom really are the honey to the trolls bee always there and willing to shine the spotlight for any troll looking for a bit of attention as soon as they've pushed a few buttons. Maybe sometimes pointing out why what someone is doing is bad will work and they will see the error of their ways but sometimes they already know and are just doing it for people point it out and all the attention that comes along with it.
The only way I'd ever hold a youtuber or any celebrity responsible for the actions of their fanbase is if they are making it known they have beef with someone on social media and then sitting back while their fan attack that person and that has never been the case with D&P who would clearly rather chew glass then let any kind of drama play out in front of their fans.
The fact is most of the youtubers who have been in the firing line of the phandom put themselves there. I'm not saying by any means I think they deserved what they got just that D&P didn't do it to them and couldn't have stopped it happening.
kuensukki wrote:
People use Dan all the time because he's popular and being a very loud and protective following with him. Following protective fandom= shitstorm even though this is just onion being onion.
Your post somehow made me ponder on how youtubers perceive individually, especially the "not vanilla" ones. Both Onision and Shane Dawson wants to collab with Phil (Phil only notice Shane's email after awhile so it did not happen, this was not recent). However both uses Dan as a sex object. Does this make Dan feel belittled professionally as he is used as a joke whereas Phil is seen more as a counterpart to these "unsavoury" youtubers? I mean to be fair even Tyler Oakley in his own way does it but as he is "subtle" and seen as "funny" the way he does it is acceptable?
flarequake wrote:
wtfamidoinghere wrote:The thought that he's teaching his tween audience that it's ok for a man to call them bitches is very uncomfortable to me.
It reminds me of the bit in Mean Girls when Tina Fey's character says "You've all got to stop calling yourselves bitches and whores, it just makes it okay for guys to call you bitches and whores".
1) I'm a nerd3 fan and i know lots of Demma Shippers gave Luke a hard time while he was dating Emma, even though they were freaking living together, everyone wanted her with Dan (hardcastle, not Howell) instead. So theoretically Luke could have been talking about that as well.
2) Also about Dan's pissed face - Yup, that's it lol. The "IDC why you like us" was great because no one in chat understood wtf he was on about so they kept trying to justify and explain why they liked him and phil and you could see him just ready to strangle people. I haven't laughed so hard in a long time, but I also wanted to give him a hug and tell him it will be ok lol. I'm glad he got good Indian food after, its great comfort food.
Ticia wrote:Although I mostly agree with you all, my two cents on the "bye bitches" conversation are going to be...his fans are not pre-schoolers nor sweet girls studying in a catholic boarding school. His fans write smut of him fucking a hamster and draw him being fucked by some tentacles. No need for the Internet here to gasp and clutch its pearl necklace.
I agree with this. I don't think the dirty bitches comment was shocking or unacceptable. I accept and hear that some of you are offended but I don't think Dan meant any harm or is trying to send a derogatory message. Tbh I wasn't even surprised? Should I have been? I don't think Dan is a role model, I think he is just a person, and this is who he is. But I guess if it really offended so many of you he might want to think twice about saying it again. But I really don't think he thought it would cause this much harm or thought he was being sexist.
1) I'm a nerd3 fan and i know lots of Demma Shippers gave Luke a hard time while he was dating Emma, even though they were freaking living together, everyone wanted her with Dan (hardcastle, not Howell) instead. So theoretically Luke could have been talking about that as well.
Luke mentioned Dan Hardcastle in the last 20 seconds of Part 2 (and continuing into 3) and said that situation (people shipping Emma with someone else) didn't bother him. The little mention at the beginning, where he included Evan, and Evan's agreement with what he was saying later all leads me to believe they're both speaking with Dan/Phan in mind.
Really wish the rest of the panel was available
pearshaped34 wrote:
The fact is most of the youtubers who have been in the firing line of the phandom put themselves there. I'm not saying by any means I think they deserved what they got just that D&P didn't do it to them and couldn't have stopped it happening.
1) I'm a nerd3 fan and i know lots of Demma Shippers gave Luke a hard time while he was dating Emma, even though they were freaking living together, everyone wanted her with Dan (hardcastle, not Howell) instead. So theoretically Luke could have been talking about that as well.
Luke mentioned Dan Hardcastle in the last 20 seconds of Part 2 (and continuing into 3) and said that situation (people shipping Emma with someone else) didn't bother him. The little mention at the beginning, where he included Evan, and Evan's agreement with what he was saying later all leads me to believe they're both speaking with Dan/Phan in mind.
Really wish the rest of the panel was available
fancybum wrote: if he took the time to address it (however vaguely), it bothers him enough to not fully ignore it (which he's fully capable of doing with all the other constant spam and references to things in the chat and PMs that he doesn't want to discuss).
this is how I see it as well
fancybum wrote: If Dan says directly to stop being gross for onion's benefit, hordes would flock to his videos to spam (Streisand effect) and berate the people participating in the contest. Ignoring it is just letting it happen (but yeah, it's happening either way so there's no 'winning' there anyway).
I understand the argument for both ignoring it and saying something about it, and I think Dan should deal with it however he thinks best really. But if Dan did say something and the phandom did go into self-policing mode as you describe, wouldn't that be a good thing in this instance?
Lurktacularr wrote:
bluewho wrote:
For future reference, this is Dan's 'pissed' face: (from plester.tumblr.com)
RIGHT I would like to call upon this gif that you have so kindly laid upon us.
Often after liveshows there's whispering of Dan seeming 'maybe annoyed' or 'in a bit of a mood' from subtleties and I would like to point you all to a fact we have known about Dan longtime: you can read him like a book. Like a fucking children's book in size 20 font with pictures to illustrate the meaning. He is NOT good at hiding his emotions/reactions. Phil could teach him a thing or two about schooling his expressions.
Anyway - look at that gif. Look at it. His face SCREAMS 'right you're annoying me now' and its just so obvious.
So next time anyone thinks he was a bit off from subtle clues, I'll call you back to that gif which is about as subtle as a dick in the ass. He isn't subtle, and if he's annoyed we'll damn sure know about it
Ticia wrote:Although I mostly agree with you all, my two cents on the "bye bitches" conversation are going to be...his fans are not pre-schoolers nor sweet girls studying in a catholic boarding school. His fans write smut of him fucking a hamster and draw him being fucked by some tentacles. No need for the Internet here to gasp and clutch its pearl necklace.
I agree with this. I don't think the dirty bitches comment was shocking or unacceptable. I accept and hear that some of you are offended but I don't think Dan meant any harm or is trying to send a derogatory message. Tbh I wasn't even surprised? Should I have been? I don't think Dan is a role model, I think he is just a person, and this is who he is. But I guess if it really offended so many of you he might want to think twice about saying it again. But I really don't think he thought it would cause this much harm or thought he was being sexist.
I was wth you riiiiight up until the bold. People have every right to be offended by anything. Other people, including the person they're offended by have the right to not give a single fuck.
“Nobody has the right to not be offended. That right doesn't exist in any declaration I have ever read.
If you are offended it is your problem, and frankly lots of things offend lots of people.
I can walk into a bookshop and point out a number of books that I find very unattractive in what they say. But it doesn't occur to me to burn the bookshop down. If you don't like a book, read another book. If you start reading a book and you decide you don't like it, nobody is telling you to finish it.
To read a 600-page novel and then say that it has deeply offended you: well, you have done a lot of work to be offended.”
- Salman Rushdie
IckleMissMayhem's evil fic writing alter ego. :twisted:
IckleMissMayhem wrote:
I was wth you riiiiight up until the bold. People have every right to be offended by anything. Other people, including the person they're offended by have the right to not give a single fuck.
That's true of course. Eminem won't stop using homophobic slurs and certain people will still use racial slurs, it doesn't matter how many people think that is wrong and hurtful. It's just bitter when it's coming from someone you like and respect.
I do recognize that not everyone categorizes "bitch" as a misogynistic slur like i do, however, Dan has said other slurs (hasn't been long since he called tabitha a whore or something like that) and i really wish he'd stop. Doesn't mean he has to, i just wish
I know it's not coming from a misogynistic place in his case, but my trashcan shrinks a little bit everytime he says something like this anyway. There's so many swear words out there that people can use, i wish humanity could let slurs that come from homophobia/racism/sexism die.
wtfamidoinghere wrote:The thought that he's teaching his tween audience that it's ok for a man to call them bitches is very uncomfortable to me.
It reminds me of the bit in Mean Girls when Tina Fey's character says "You've all got to stop calling yourselves bitches and whores, it just makes it okay for guys to call you bitches and whores".
Ditto.
Had a good talk on Twitter with akuibluewhomermaid blood and some others about this yesterday. Don't know if this was also said on here so wanted to say it.
First I was not offended to be called a 'dirty bitch' by Dan because I am older than most of his fans. It was funny and at first I didn't think more about it.
But when thinking of this 25 year old man saying his young teenage girl fans who idolize him are 'dirty bitches' it felt wrong. He is in a place of influence and power over his fans. Don't forget they're children. Even if they are children who make sexual jokes and comments they are still kids who maybe don't understand that Onion is sexually harassing Dan because there isn't consent and they are not just friends joking together.
Onion is his peer and if Dan says angry things about him they're on the same level so there's nothing wrong with it. If Dan doesn't want to say those things so he can avoid drama then that's his choice. But when Dan takes out his anger on his fans it's coming from someone with more power and directed to people with less power. Especially since he used the word 'bitches'. You can find it offensive or not. Up to you. The fact is it is a misogynistic word and used mostly towards women. Even if Dan didn't mean it in a sexist way it's a sexist word and it's different than if he said 'assholes' like wtfamidoinghere said.
Is it so bad that I'm not going to be a fan now? No. Like I said it was funny for me personally. But it was not a good thing to say to his young mostly female audience. Dan should think more before using this kind of word choice.
fancybum wrote: If Dan says directly to stop being gross for onion's benefit, hordes would flock to his videos to spam (Streisand effect) and berate the people participating in the contest. Ignoring it is just letting it happen (but yeah, it's happening either way so there's no 'winning' there anyway).
I understand the argument for both ignoring it and saying something about it, and I think Dan should deal with it however he thinks best really. But if Dan did say something and the phandom did go into self-policing mode as you describe, wouldn't that be a good thing in this instance?
Honestly, that's a difficult question to answer. I'm going to pull a 'Harry Potter calling Voldemort Tom' and just call him Greg from now on. It takes away his powernot really it's just easier to type. I don't think phandom policing can ever really be a good thing, as it only ever devolves into cyber-bullying under the guise of 'respect'. 'Delete your ugly account you awful person; I'm going to spew hate at you to show you you're not respecting Dan'. And if things were black and white, I'd say 'good, people supporting Greg deserve it'. But the reality is a lot of his fans don't yet get what's wrong with people like him, they think he's really 3edgy5me and being Real™. He banks on that. Dan mentioning him by name (as so many people have said already, I can feel some recoiling that we keep talking about him, don't worry I am too I'm sorry) gives Greg exactly what he wants. And maybe we shouldn't care (since he's already won), maybe it should be about letting the ignorant people in on the fact that it's really not funny, it's not cute. But that literally won't stop the contest from happening, it won't erase all the #dangreg images from the internet. It's already done. Dan saying anything about it directly won't help anything, it'll just add fuel to the fire.
A "good" example being exactly what happened in the last liveshow: Dan expressed actual annoyance with the cringey comments left on other videos relating back to him and Phil (he outright said he won't play a song because it's already hit with embarrassing comments) and what have people done? Left even more comments on videos of that song because it's hilaaaaarious to do things Dan says not to do. Oh, it makes him uncomfortable? Lol. He's cringing over it? Doublelol. Real talk: the internet's fucked up. And I wish ignoring a problem actually made it go away, but Greg's a cockroach on YT, he'll always be scuttling around. Shining a light directly on him only legitimizes him in his own eyes (and acknowledgement would only ramp up his efforts in further harassing Dan). So in this case, not ignoring it would make things worse. Dan addressing it would yes, send a flurry of hate to Greg's multiple channels (more eyes, more $), but also encourage those hiLaRioUs people to spam #dangreg garbage all over the place, because lolDan doesn't like it,how funny. But they're doing it ironically, ok? Going along with harassment is totes fine as long as it's done with irony.
There's really no good or right way to deal with it beyond what Dan did without blowing it up further. It sucks. I think somebody said this too earlier, but basically we'll just have to wait for Greg to find a new target to focus on.
fancybum wrote:A "good" example being exactly what happened in the last liveshow: Dan expressed actual annoyance with the cringey comments left on other videos relating back to him and Phil (he outright said he won't play a song because it's already hit with embarrassing comments) and what have people done? Left even more comments on videos of that song because it's hilaaaaarious to do things Dan says not to do. Oh, it makes him uncomfortable? Lol. He's cringing over it? Doublelol.
There's something that bugs me about bringing up people who started leaving these comments "for the lulz" after Dan asked the phandom to stop as an example, because in the very same liveshow, when people complained he was making a popping noise a lot and then there was this talk about memes getting old, he said anyone who's asking him to stop doing something is just making him want to do it more often to annoy them. I'm not saying it's ok to do something just because the other party does it, and personally, I don't like this type of behaviour, I find it childish in a bad way (but I stopped reading youtube comments altogether a long time ago, so I don't care really), and there's clearly an imbalance in the relationship between Dan, who's just one guy and still relatively young, and thousands of his fans (although, it goes both ways, as we were just talking about the power of the words he uses, for example) - but the thing is, doing something to annoy his audience has been his schtick for a long time, as well as doing embarrassing things for laughs (in that way, he really does seem like a clown, I mean, in a "profession" sense, not in a derogatory sense). So if he wants to ask for something sincerely, he should make a public service announcement with a big disclaimer and be, like, really serious in it, otherwise it's lost on his audience as being part of his humor.
I wasn't sure I wanted to bring it up, but here you go. I'm sorry it was your post I quoted, fancybum, this wasn't aimed specifically at you, yours was just the latest.
Dan wants to be understood. Phil just wants to make the viewer smile and sell some backpacks (c) fancybum
fancybum wrote:
Anyway it just reiterated what I already thought: D&P can't win when it comes to "directing" their fanbase. If they say now, after it already happened on just about every stop on tour, 'don't visit us at the airport, we don't like it', that will result in even more hate thrown to the people who did it. If Dan says directly to stop being gross for onion's benefit, hordes would flock to his videos to spam (Streisand effect) and berate the people participating in the contest. Ignoring it is just letting it happen (but yeah, it's happening either way so there's no 'winning' there anyway).
I don't know, I get annoyed when people just roll their eyes like 'ugh Dan/Phil just staying out of drama, not calling people out as usual' (like over art reposting/whatever else that goes on), but calling out a person or specific thing (like airport stalkers) will direct an overwhelming amount of negative attention to those specific people involved even if D&P say not to. And D&P know that. So saying vaguer 'hey don't repost art please, be nice online please, take a chill pill in general please' is the least destructive thing they can do, and they do that. #nicerinternet, zen liveshow monologues, etc. It's not their fault too many people in general are self-absorbed jackholes who just do what they want without realizing or even caring that it's not cool. Why am I ranting, I don't know. I need a sims vid.
I have to agree with fancybum on this. It's not that they don't want drama- it's because that most of their fans won't listen to them no matter how hard they try. Take 2012 for example: Dan tried to take damage control (or whatever that is), but what happened? It backfired. Their fans are probably only a half of what they have now, but it's enough to cause a shitstorm. What would happen if they tried to do it now? Do you think most of their fans will stop? I have to say no to that one because people are offended about everything that they find offending, and again, it'll backfire on Dan.
About that Onion guy.. I think that people in the Phandom watch him because of his videos, and not because of his personality. I actually found his videos amusing, until.. I learned about the ugly truth about him, and I just.. If ever, I think that Dan is really uncomfortable about the Onion's history, and he'd rather not be associated with him.
(I hope that makes sense, I really do. Please forgive me.. Don't stab me, please.)
fancybum wrote:
Anyway it just reiterated what I already thought: D&P can't win when it comes to "directing" their fanbase. If they say now, after it already happened on just about every stop on tour, 'don't visit us at the airport, we don't like it', that will result in even more hate thrown to the people who did it. If Dan says directly to stop being gross for onion's benefit, hordes would flock to his videos to spam (Streisand effect) and berate the people participating in the contest. Ignoring it is just letting it happen (but yeah, it's happening either way so there's no 'winning' there anyway).
I don't know, I get annoyed when people just roll their eyes like 'ugh Dan/Phil just staying out of drama, not calling people out as usual' (like over art reposting/whatever else that goes on), but calling out a person or specific thing (like airport stalkers) will direct an overwhelming amount of negative attention to those specific people involved even if D&P say not to. And D&P know that. So saying vaguer 'hey don't repost art please, be nice online please, take a chill pill in general please' is the least destructive thing they can do, and they do that. #nicerinternet, zen liveshow monologues, etc. It's not their fault too many people in general are self-absorbed jackholes who just do what they want without realizing or even caring that it's not cool. Why am I ranting, I don't know. I need a sims vid.
I have to agree with fancybum on this. It's not that they don't want drama- it's because that most of their fans won't listen to them no matter how hard they try. Take 2012 for example: Dan tried to take damage control (or whatever that is), but what happened? It backfired. Their fans are probably only a half of what they have now, but it's enough to cause a shitstorm. What would happen if they tried to do it now? Do you think most of their fans will stop? I have to say no to that one because people are offended about everything that they find offending, and again, it'll backfire on Dan.
I agree, they can't ever win. Either they let it (whatever that may be) happen, or they say something and (sadly) cause problems. It's a hard situation to be in with no easy way of getting out of it.
I know that this topic has been over for a while, but here is an interesting discussion about why it's a bit shitty of deppy to downplay the youtube changes:
Especially starting at 26:00, they talk about censoring specifically news channels. Of course we don't know for sure that youtube is following a political agenda, but not even mentioning the possibility seems odd.
(And i especially liked their talk about politicians trying to use youtubers and even having representation at conventions etc.)
It's kind of off topic, but deppy's dismissiveness made me
fancybum wrote:
9:20
Luke: This is something I’ve massively experienced myself. If you’re in a fandom, you are, to the rest of the internet, a representative of the person you’re a fan of. I won’t name names, but this happened to me where I had fan groups attacking me and for awhile some fan groups didn’t like me. They had profile pictures of a YTer, and I started to attribute that negative feedback (Evan cuts in with: “same here”) and hate to that YTer. So much so that for about two years, I thought [the YTer] hated me, even though—
VIDEO CUTS OFF AND THERE’S NO MORE FOOTAGE. God. damn. it. It was just getting into what I really wanted to hear. He was obviously talking about Dan.
You know, this is something that has been on my mind a lot lately. It's quite an experience seeing it confirmed. Makes me rethink a lot about how I use twitter having Phil as my profile picture.
I mean, mine is a fan account so I keep it separate from anything irl and I use it to interact with you guys and deppy, sometimes I do express frustration with another youtubers but never @ reply them and sometimes it still ends up with them seeing it. Now I have to use * instead of letters for it not to happen, not because I don't want them to see but because I do have Phil as my picture.
I mean, I know a lot of other youtubers will dismiss anyone with a deppy profile picture as a part of a mob that can't think for themselves and somehow as 'less' than other people for belonging on a fandom (which is bullsh*t) but this up there is another level.
(you'd think someone that also has an audience would do better than make this association but, oh well...)
Oh man, I've been ill for a few days and missed a whole discussion about people being offended about Dan using the phrase dirty bitches? He can call me a dirty bitch as much as he likes, I have a filthy mind anyways. In all seriousness though, I doubt he meant anything harmful, I call some of my closest friends dirty bitches and visa versa, I don't personally see it as a big deal. He also says 'see you next Tuesday' every liveshow, i secretly hope he's using that for slang but just because I love the word.
But who the fuck am I kidding? I'm mostly just the rotting banana peel at the bottom of the phan trash can who genuinely gets excited over the thought of them snuggling in bed. Idgaf let a bitch live
- Manged
