Dan & Phil Part 35: knock knock, who’s there, i hate you

[secretagentphan]

Regarding Dan's treatment within the YouTube community (and outside of it I guess), I have no opinions to offer that haven't already been stated by someone else. But just gotta raise the question - do you think the "Dan is a bottom" jokes in the phandom are a part of this? Are they just cute inside jokes or are they actually kinda offensive?
Do Phan rumours/speculation about his sexuality come into play when it comes to Dan's sexualisation as a feminine looking male or is it just that he looks pretty and people want to comment on that?

Personally I think it's a mix of both, however I'd love to see other people's opinions on this

I agree it's a mix of both. Obviously if you dig deep there's proof that Dan may be into that (also that tweet about Evan Peters was BOLD) but the extent of it is probably also because he is more feminine and society feels the need to make gay relationships have heterosexual roles.

[nephilimcat]

Regarding Dan's treatment within the YouTube community (and outside of it I guess), I have no opinions to offer that haven't already been stated by someone else. But just gotta raise the question - do you think the "Dan is a bottom" jokes in the phandom are a part of this? Are they just cute inside jokes or are they actually kinda offensive?
Do Phan rumours/speculation about his sexuality come into play when it comes to Dan's sexualisation as a feminine looking male or is it just that he looks pretty and people want to comment on that?

Personally I think it's a mix of both, however I'd love to see other people's opinions on this

I feel like they can be non-offensive if they are based on actual comments or actions (like that time Dan liked a tweet that said "like when you're a bottom, retweet if you're a top" or something). In that case people are obviously going to make fun of it and as long as they don't discredit being a bottom as a sign of being the "feminine" and therefore weak one, it's fine.
However, a lot (if not most) people probably assume Dan's a bottom because of his "feminine" side and "feminine" things he does. It's like, yeah, he's more "feminine" that means Phil is the "daddy" (I hate that word almost as much as "bae" ) aka the "man" in the relationship, therefore Dan has to be the bottom. It's such a heteronormative thought process. One person is the man aka the dominant top and the other is the woman aka the submissive bottom. So yeah, I think that's why Dan is called a bottom so often and that just sucks.

[CallMeAyana]

Regarding Dan's treatment within the YouTube community (and outside of it I guess), I have no opinions to offer that haven't already been stated by someone else. But just gotta raise the question - do you think the "Dan is a bottom" jokes in the phandom are a part of this? Are they just cute inside jokes or are they actually kinda offensive?
Do Phan rumours/speculation about his sexuality come into play when it comes to Dan's sexualisation as a feminine looking male or is it just that he looks pretty and people want to comment on that?

Personally I think it's a mix of both, however I'd love to see other people's opinions on this

A mix of both, actually. I think that (some) people base it on Dan's more feminine-looking appearance than Phil, so... feminine=bottom. And even if it's an inside joke, it also has the potential to be offensive all the same. I do think that speculations about his sexuality come into play when it comes to his sexualisation, but I think that it's mostly because of how he looks.

[000dia000]

I'm also a believer that Dan's feminisation is also prevalent in fanfiction-Dan assumes the sort of "female" role, is often the main character and the one who needs to be comforted/the most vulnerable. (though this also has to do with how Dan's personality is more out there, and easier to write through while Phil, for whatever reason we just can't wrap our heads around, is so mysterious that every personality evaluation I read blows my mind.)

The funny thing is I noticed-Phil sometimes comes across as the "feminine one" depending upon the video or the person who you show them to. Maybe it depends on who the viewer is focusing on or what they hear in that instance but I always thought Phil had the "softer" side?

[alittledizzy]

I am not going to entirely discount the fact that some people have a fucked up notion that people consider bottom = feminine or somehow more associated with flamboyant/sexualized - because I am aware that happens in the world and I'm sure it happens in phandom too.

But I do want to point out, that from the perspective of someone who writes fic, I write Dan as a bottom because Dan's phrased himself on the receiving end multiple times. (Liking the bottom tweet and 'enter me Troye' are two that immediately come to mind without trying to look up any references.) I'm not going to get into a long complex post on sexual positions right now, but writing Dan as a bottom is not in any way equating Dan to a female for me and I do not make writing choices based on gross overgeneralizations so it's not a hive mind thing.

[CallMeAyana]

I'm also a believer that Dan's feminisation is also prevalent in fanfiction-Dan assumes the sort of "female" role, is often the main character and the one who needs to be comforted/the most vulnerable. (though this also has to do with how Dan's personality is more out there, and easier to write through while Phil, for whatever reason we just can't wrap our heads around, is so mysterious that every personality evaluation I read blows my mind.)

The funny thing is I noticed-Phil sometimes comes across as the "feminine one" depending upon the video or the person who you show them to. Maybe it depends on who the viewer is focusing on or what they hear in that instance but I always thought Phil had the "softer" side?

^This. Personally, Phil's mannerisms (is that the word?) seems to be more feminine than Dan, mostly back in 2009-2012. Also, the fanfiction part about Dan- Dan is that guy where he puts his heart on his sleeves (well, not exactly, but is more expressive than Phil), so it's generally easier to write him (and that he still has his Existential Crisis Brand.)

[sweetmm]

I'm also a believer that Dan's feminisation is also prevalent in fanfiction-Dan assumes the sort of "female" role, is often the main character and the one who needs to be comforted/the most vulnerable. (though this also has to do with how Dan's personality is more out there, and easier to write through while Phil, for whatever reason we just can't wrap our heads around, is so mysterious that every personality evaluation I read blows my mind.)

The funny thing is I noticed-Phil sometimes comes across as the "feminine one" depending upon the video or the person who you show them to. Maybe it depends on who the viewer is focusing on or what they hear in that instance but I always thought Phil had the "softer" side?

^This. Personally, Phil's mannerisms (is that the word?) seems to be more feminine than Dan, mostly back in 2009-2012. Also, the fanfiction part about Dan- Dan is that guy where he puts his heart on his sleeves (well, not exactly, but is more expressive than Phil), so it's generally easier to write him (and that he still has his Existential Crisis Brand.)

I don't classify Phil's mannerism as effeminate/feminine but more of old school British gentleman, which is far from masculine. Phil's features,body/physique and mannerism such as sitting with legs apart also screamed male, well at least to me, hence maybe that is why not many view Phil as the "softer" in comparison. My signature gif is an exmple, where even Dan is bigger in size, his actions are "softer" than Phil, even when they are fake fighting.

[flarequake]

Ages ago now (and I can't find it, I've looked) I saw a video clip on Tumblr of Dan and Phil in the street answering a few questions to somebody and Dan said his wish (Christmas wish perhaps) was for people to like him for his intelligence and not just his looks. Wish I could find it. It was from a few years ago, he was still fairly skinny.

[sweetmm]

Ages ago now (and I can't find it, I've looked) I saw a video clip on Tumblr of Dan and Phil in the street answering a few questions to somebody and Dan said his wish (Christmas wish perhaps) was for people to like him for his intelligence and not just his looks. Wish I could find it. It was from a few years ago, he was still fairly skinny.

Yeah I remembered that, also a video somewhere, where he state viewers watch his video for how he look. I have to salute him though for not being shy to admit he's an eye candy.

[secretagentphan]

Ages ago now (and I can't find it, I've looked) I saw a video clip on Tumblr of Dan and Phil in the street answering a few questions to somebody and Dan said his wish (Christmas wish perhaps) was for people to like him for his intelligence and not just his looks. Wish I could find it. It was from a few years ago, he was still fairly skinny.

This really gets me because Dan really tries to be informed and intelligent and yet so many people disregard it because he's attractive. Like the fact that this happens to Dan and meanwhile people like Alfie who don't have much to offer at all are vlogging... it's silly. I vaguely remember this too. I'm not going to get into the skinny comment that much because I get a little uncomfortable by that, but I will say that Dan doesn't seem concerned about his looks in a conventional way. It seems like he gets more insecure about looking feminine and being a pretty boy more than anything else. When it comes to attractiveness I feel like Phil cares more. Dan isn't afraid of looking completely hideous in pictures and pulls the funniest faces, while when Phil is asked to make an ugly face he seems to hold back. It's just an observation.

In regards to the Dan being a bottom thing, I think that itself is because he makes so many comments about receiving, I totally agree with alittledizzy but some of the other stuff fic writers say is clearly just trying to make him "the woman" of the relationship. That could be a combination of the fact that they think "bottom=girl" and the fact that Dan looks more feminine.

[squishydanny]

I'd be interested in seeing a poll about users on IDP who find Dan or Phil more attractive because I've seen Phil gain much more support in that aspect in the past few years (compared to 2013). What I have to add is that when I first started watching, I found Dan much more physically appealing. I couldn't believe that people actually thought Phil was hot.
However, as I began to watch them and obsess over them I quickly found that Phil, while not "conventionally" attractive, has extremely unique features (I mean those eyes, cmon) that in most ways makes him much more attractive than Dan. Although I still am more into Dan looks wise, I definitely get what everyone else sees when they look at Phil. What I can't believe NOW, after knowing their personalities and faces so well, is how any one can call Phil ugly. Anytime I show my friends a video of Dan and Phil for the first time, the first comments are that Phil is less attractive. I wonder if attraction to certain people is based on location (Americans preferring certain features nationally over others). I do believe that Phil in the past has been more self conscious on his appearance but now is less of an issue considering how many people drool over his selfies. Just thought it was interesting to comment that many people view Dan as the hot one initially, but with time see Phil's beauty. I'm so into their personalities at this point, how they look matters for absolutely nothing.

[alittledizzy]

I wonder if some of Dan's issues with being sexualized and objectified might also be in part because he started getting followers after posting a series of semi-nude (or tastefully nude) photos. Arguably that's even how he really got Phil's attention. I mean, they were talking already around then, but Phil certainly commented on almost all of those nakedbooths. So from the very beginning Dan was aware that his popularity was jumping on dailybooth because he was sharing his body. Youtube came after, but a lot of the perception of Dan from people who were his early peers might have been built from those dailybooth origins, and even though mostly those people are not his peers now I could see how it'd be hard to shake the insecurity.

[secretagentphan]

I wonder if some of Dan's with being sexualized and objectified might also be in part because he started getting followers after posting a series of semi-nude (or tastefully nude) photos. Arguably that's even how he really got Phil's attention. I mean, they were talking already around then, but Phil certainly commented on almost all of those nakedbooths. So from the very beginning Dan was aware that his popularity was jumping on dailybooth because he was sharing his body. Youtube came after, but a lot of the perception of Dan from people who were his early peers might have been built from those dailybooth origins, and even though mostly those people are not his peers now I could see how it'd be hard to shake the insecurity.

The more I look into marketing the more I realize that as sad as it is, sex sells. Dan was probably looking for validation at the time so he didn't think anything of it but regretted it later because it kind of distracts everyone from his other features

[flarequake]

Re calling Dan skinny, I meant before he was fully grown and his shoulders broadened. I'm sorry about that, I didn't mean to comment on his weight.

[000dia000]

I'd be interested in seeing a poll about users on IDP who find Dan or Phil more attractive because I've seen Phil gain much more support in that aspect in the past few years (compared to 2013). What I have to add is that when I first started watching, I found Dan much more physically appealing. I couldn't believe that people actually thought Phil was hot.

This. This is something I've noticed a lot more. Maybe in the last year or so there has been much more Phil appreciation and not the kind of sad "GET PHIL TO 4 MIL" kind, but actual appreciation for what he does and his attractiveness, that has always been overshadowed by Dan. Maybe it's the fact that on IDB I'm more exposed to those who are actually interested in Phil as something separate from Phan. However, I have noticed a recent spike in people admiring his attractiveness in the last year - maybe it's the haircut? Maybe some fans of them both are beginning to like Phil a little more? Who knows?

[pilotlight]

Tfw you have lots of opinions about a subject but are not articulate enough to convey them properly.

Just in general speculation about who is a top or a bottom tends to make me grind my teeth. Not when it's because of the person's own words (like alittledizzy's examples of things Dan has said), but when it's based on looks or ways of acting or age, which unfortunately it often is. It goes beyond assumptions about what the person prefers to do in bed and involves all kinds of attitudes about masculinity (or a lack of it) and so much of it is just such bullshit. Am I cranky about this and a bit defensive because of personal experience? Maybe.
To be clear, this isn't me being annoyed with anyone here, I'm just talking generally.

[SquishPhan]

[000dia000]

[malday]

earlier he liked this vid that was trending on twitter (now deleted)
(mirror)

original title "In case y'all want to know what working at Hot Topic is like"

[CallMeAyana]

...Wow. Is that screensaver up to something?

[nephilimcat]

Guess Phil is missing Japan...
He reblogged this:

[Amiaw]

Guess Phil is missing Japan...
He reblogged this:

He's reblogged a few Japan- related things this morning. Maybe another Japhan trip ??

Also this:

2017- the year of Becoming the same person

[Philena]

Guess Phil is missing Japan...
He reblogged this:

He's reblogged a few Japan- related things this morning. Maybe another Japhan trip ??

Also this:

2017- the year of Becoming the same person

Apparently my kink is Phil working on his aesthetic

...Wow. Is that screensaver up to something?

I hope tomorrow's word follows suit

[fancybum]

2017- the year of Becoming the same person

Or 2017 - the year of Phil continuing to loosen up more and engage with more of his audience. This is so great for the artists out there, congrats guys!

[Amiaw]

2017- the year of Becoming the same person

Or 2017 - the year of Phil continuing to loosen up more and engage with more of his audience. This is so great for the artists out there, congrats guys!

I think it's great too- I was just joking. Im always up for anything that encourages more interaction.