Dan & Phil Part 39: There's no integrity here

[oqua]

(gif source: altphan)

Carry on!

[papierklemmen]

shitty watercolor is painting phil's tweet live on younow now, that's cute. behind the scenes process is fascinating!

serious question: does phil ever tweet about anything other than animals or food?

[SexyTrashCan]

Oh Phil.
Tweet for reference:

He also says Queen's dogs>Queen herself. Obviously

[papierklemmen]

aw, shitty's livestream was so relaxing. he tweeted the pic now, but he thought the picture turned out to be shitty (lolz) so he didn't tag phil.

[thephandommenace]

The thread name

Hi everyone! Lovely to meet y'all. I'm coming out of lurking hiding to post for the first time on a Deppy thread or 'phread'... ok no

Self-intro & how I turned into Deppy trash within the past 3-4 months:

I'm a stressed-out, procrastinating British uni student in their final year and I find myself sympathising with dropout!/existential!Dan a lot rn. Not that I didn't #relate to him before ofc. (I've been aware of his/Phil's existence since 2011ish but I didn't fall into the phandom hole until just recently.)

I found myself here following a series of clicks that started with the frustration of feeling like the only one who felt critical of a certain YTer (Emma) . I didn't have any friends I could talk to about it but it was really eating away at me. When I stumbled across her GG, I was low-key delighted and relieved (I feel horrible for saying that) to find I wasn't the only one who felt that way. I was even happier to discover like-minded, intelligent people, who didnt just mindlessly hate on the people they were criticizing (though admittedly it was sometimes pretty fun to read) and often provided interesting, fair and critical insight. Her thread had several allusions to the D&P thread (oh boy ), which I think then rekindled my interest in them and led to me watching their videos again.

I used to enjoy Dan quite a lot a few years ago, for his dinof sketches, ironic humour and 'quality content', but wasn't so interested in Phil as I didn't really like 'vloggy content' and I couldn't really get into him. I stopped paying attention around 2013/2014 as that was around the time all the sex allegations started coming out and it really put me off YouTubers and YouTube culture for a while. So I missed everything to do with TABINOF and TATINOF, which I regret a bit now. I'd have so loved to have seen them perform.

But when I started watching them again recently, I looked at Phil and BAM I saw him in this whole new light, which I think then prompted me into falling down this magical rabbit hole. I'm not as into Dan or his content as I used to be. This might be more to do with my own issues, in that I feel I share a lot of his more negative traits, like his word-vomit, holding himself to an unfairly high standard, chronic procrastinatio n and falling back on loud OTT reactions for comedic purposes, so I judge him more harshly. But I also empathise with him and want him to succeed. My feelings towards Dan are complicated. I also used to only ever be attracted to loud, obnoxious, brown-eyed, class-clown types, a la Dan, and had each and every one of them break my heart. 2016 was a tough year for me, and I started gravitating more towards gentle, more modest, quietly funny kind of guys. Phil definitely seemed to fit the bill.

It was scary, becoming an actual phan. I was battling with myself, feeling a sense of shame, not wanting to associate myself with what I thought to be a huge, unweilding, loud, obnoxious teenage mass of shrek-memers and unapologetic shippers. But D&P are so weirdly addictive. I felt so wrong, curiously clicking on slash fiction, even though I've been a yaoi shipper since I was 15. At first it was fine because I couldn't find any well-written fiction, but then I found The Reject by blueberryphancakes on AO3 and that's it, I was gone.
Whether I believe Phan is real or not, that's another story.

I posted a comment on EB's thread on IDB and then didn't again. I got scared at how much interaction my one comment got, and I feel my first comment may have been overly harsh/judgemental/just plain incorrect. But after poring over multiple D&P GG threads and several IDB ones, I finally made it here, and I want to join in with the discussion. As fairly as possible, though I know I may have some strong opinions in the future that will be open to scrutiny. I find D&P so interesting, despite them being perceived as boring for not getting involved in any huge drama with other YTers. I respect them for that, tbh. I'm now kind of pretending people like EB and EE don't exist and I feel better for it.

Tl;dr: I'm Phil #3,943,000ish
(I hope he gets to 4mil soon, what's taking so damn long)

[lefthandedism]

The thread name

Hi everyone! Lovely to meet y'all. I'm coming out of lurking hiding to post for the first time on a Deppy thread or 'phread'... ok no

Self-intro & how I turned into Deppy trash within the past 3-4 months:

I'm a stressed-out, procrastinating British uni student in their final year and I find myself sympathising with dropout!/existential!Dan a lot rn. Not that I didn't #relate to him before ofc. (I've been aware of his/Phil's existence since 2011ish but I didn't fall into the phandom hole until just recently.)

I found myself here following a series of clicks that started with the frustration of feeling like the only one who felt critical of a certain YTer (Emma) . I didn't have any friends I could talk to about it but it was really eating away at me. When I stumbled across her GG, I was low-key delighted and relieved (I feel horrible for saying that) to find I wasn't the only one who felt that way. I was even happier to discover like-minded, intelligent people, who didnt just mindlessly hate on the people they were criticizing (though admittedly it was sometimes pretty fun to read) and often provided interesting, fair and critical insight. Her thread had several allusions to the D&P thread (oh boy ), which I think then rekindled my interest in them and led to me watching their videos again.

I used to enjoy Dan quite a lot a few years ago, for his dinof sketches, ironic humour and 'quality content', but wasn't so interested in Phil as I didn't really like 'vloggy content' and I couldn't really get into him. I stopped paying attention around 2013/2014 as that was around the time all the sex allegations started coming out and it really put me off YouTubers and YouTube culture for a while. So I missed everything to do with TABINOF and TATINOF, which I regret a bit now. I'd have so loved to have seen them perform.

But when I started watching them again recently, I looked at Phil and BAM I saw him in this whole new light, which I think then prompted me into falling down this magical rabbit hole. I'm not as into Dan or his content as I used to be. This might be more to do with my own issues, in that I feel I share a lot of his more negative traits, like his word-vomit, holding himself to an unfairly high standard, chronic procrastinatio n and falling back on loud OTT reactions for comedic purposes, so I judge him more harshly. But I also empathise with him and want him to succeed. My feelings towards Dan are complicated. I also used to only ever be attracted to loud, obnoxious, brown-eyed, class-clown types, a la Dan, and had each and every one of them break my heart. 2016 was a tough year for me, and I started gravitating more towards gentle, more modest, quietly funny kind of guys. Phil definitely seemed to fit the bill.

It was scary, becoming an actual phan. I was battling with myself, feeling a sense of shame, not wanting to associate myself with what I thought to be a huge, unweilding, loud, obnoxious teenage mass of shrek-memers and unapologetic shippers. But D&P are so weirdly addictive. I felt so wrong, curiously clicking on slash fiction, even though I've been a yaoi shipper since I was 15. At first it was fine because I couldn't find any well-written fiction, but then I found The Reject by blueberryphancakes on AO3 and that's it, I was gone.
Whether I believe Phan is real or not, that's another story.

I posted a comment on EB's thread on IDB and then didn't again. I got scared at how much interaction my one comment got, and I feel my first comment may have been overly harsh/judgemental/just plain incorrect. But after poring over multiple D&P GG threads and several IDB ones, I finally made it here, and I want to join in with the discussion. As fairly as possible, though I know I may have some strong opinions in the future that will be open to scrutiny. I find D&P so interesting, despite them being perceived as boring for not getting involved in any huge drama with other YTers. I respect them for that, tbh. I'm now kind of pretending people like EB and EE don't exist and I feel better for it.

Tl;dr: I'm Phil #3,943,000ish
(I hope he gets to 4mil soon, what's taking so damn long)

Welcome! I was hesitant myself, but have truly found this a great place. I look forward to your input (you also get to use lots of emoji! ).

Good luck with finishing uni. When you get old enough to find that teeny-tiny font a bit hard on the eyes ( ), you'll (probably) look back on the accomplishment with pride and pleasure.

[CallMeAyana]

The thread name

Hi everyone! Lovely to meet y'all. I'm coming out of lurking hiding to post for the first time on a Deppy thread or 'phread'... ok no

Self-intro & how I turned into Deppy trash within the past 3-4 months:

I'm a stressed-out, procrastinating British uni student in their final year and I find myself sympathising with dropout!/existential!Dan a lot rn. Not that I didn't #relate to him before ofc. (I've been aware of his/Phil's existence since 2011ish but I didn't fall into the phandom hole until just recently.)

I found myself here following a series of clicks that started with the frustration of feeling like the only one who felt critical of a certain YTer (Emma) . I didn't have any friends I could talk to about it but it was really eating away at me. When I stumbled across her GG, I was low-key delighted and relieved (I feel horrible for saying that) to find I wasn't the only one who felt that way. I was even happier to discover like-minded, intelligent people, who didnt just mindlessly hate on the people they were criticizing (though admittedly it was sometimes pretty fun to read) and often provided interesting, fair and critical insight. Her thread had several allusions to the D&P thread (oh boy ), which I think then rekindled my interest in them and led to me watching their videos again.

I used to enjoy Dan quite a lot a few years ago, for his dinof sketches, ironic humour and 'quality content', but wasn't so interested in Phil as I didn't really like 'vloggy content' and I couldn't really get into him. I stopped paying attention around 2013/2014 as that was around the time all the sex allegations started coming out and it really put me off YouTubers and YouTube culture for a while. So I missed everything to do with TABINOF and TATINOF, which I regret a bit now. I'd have so loved to have seen them perform.

But when I started watching them again recently, I looked at Phil and BAM I saw him in this whole new light, which I think then prompted me into falling down this magical rabbit hole. I'm not as into Dan or his content as I used to be. This might be more to do with my own issues, in that I feel I share a lot of his more negative traits, like his word-vomit, holding himself to an unfairly high standard, chronic procrastinatio n and falling back on loud OTT reactions for comedic purposes, so I judge him more harshly. But I also empathise with him and want him to succeed. My feelings towards Dan are complicated. I also used to only ever be attracted to loud, obnoxious, brown-eyed, class-clown types, a la Dan, and had each and every one of them break my heart. 2016 was a tough year for me, and I started gravitating more towards gentle, more modest, quietly funny kind of guys. Phil definitely seemed to fit the bill.

It was scary, becoming an actual phan. I was battling with myself, feeling a sense of shame, not wanting to associate myself with what I thought to be a huge, unweilding, loud, obnoxious teenage mass of shrek-memers and unapologetic shippers. But D&P are so weirdly addictive. I felt so wrong, curiously clicking on slash fiction, even though I've been a yaoi shipper since I was 15. At first it was fine because I couldn't find any well-written fiction, but then I found The Reject by blueberryphancakes on AO3 and that's it, I was gone.
Whether I believe Phan is real or not, that's another story.

I posted a comment on EB's thread on IDB and then didn't again. I got scared at how much interaction my one comment got, and I feel my first comment may have been overly harsh/judgemental/just plain incorrect. But after poring over multiple D&P GG threads and several IDB ones, I finally made it here, and I want to join in with the discussion. As fairly as possible, though I know I may have some strong opinions in the future that will be open to scrutiny. I find D&P so interesting, despite them being perceived as boring for not getting involved in any huge drama with other YTers. I respect them for that, tbh. I'm now kind of pretending people like EB and EE don't exist and I feel better for it.

Tl;dr: I'm Phil #3,943,000ish
(I hope he gets to 4mil soon, what's taking so damn long)

Hey! Welcome It really is such a nice thing when people de-lurk to join in here
Now... just gonna [rant]
I just fucking hate it. I absolutely fucking hate it. I absolutely fucking hate it when people put Deppy on their thumbnails as if we'll click on it just because they have, like, a 30-second mention in the video. I mean, I get why they're in the thumbnail, but to put them in, like, EVERY video when they are only mentioned for, like, 20 seconds... it's quite off-putting, and quite insulting to us. Just because Deppy are on the thumbnail, that doesn't mean that we'll instantly click on it. We're not exactly hungry for content right now since Deppy has a pretty consistent uploading schedule (so far). We're not that desperate, and definitely not stupid that we'll click on every video that has Deppy on the thumbnail. It's dumb. It's stupid. It's insulting to the Phandom.
Also, I hate it when people post videos of them "interviewing" Deppy, like... "An Interview with Dan and Phil!", like, no. Stop. It's that kind of content that makes me want to smash my head against the wall because... well, it's not exactly an interview, is it? I'm not even tempted to click on it to find out. [/rant]
Sorry, but it's true.

[Veritine]

De-lurking (because of the twofold of me agreeing with you and you saying it's nice when ppl de-lurking) just to say that I completely agree, when ppl tease deppy in their thumbnails it pisses me off. Do your own stuff to gain my attention, don't use them. It cheapens your video, and it pisses off the deppy fandom :wtf: whhhyyyyy??!

[secretagentphan]

De-lurking (because of the twofold of me agreeing with you and you saying it's nice when ppl de-lurking) just to say that I completely agree, when ppl tease deppy in their thumbnails it pisses me off. Do your own stuff to gain my attention, don't use them. It cheapens your video, and it pisses off the deppy fandom :wtf: whhhyyyyy??!

The worst part is that SO MANY comments on the video I posted were "I saw Dan and Phil and I clicked LOLZUR" :wtf: soooo embarrassing

[flurry]

Interesting discussion! Personally, I don't click these sort of videos that just use Dan and Phil for clickbait though? I don't really feel curious because I know they aren't going to actually appear and do anything in the videos anyway - but to each their own I guess! I'm only interested in actual interviews with D&P- there was one done by Huffington Post that I really enjoyed and I always replay just to have their voices in the background like a podcast. Does anyone here listen to Desert Island Discs? I'll love Dan and Phil to be on it separately one day but I guess they're nowhere mainstream "celebrity" enough for that.

Also hello delurkers! I dunno - I've been watching Dan and Phil for years and I'm definitely their fan but I don't feel at all like I'm part of the "phandom"? By "phandom" I mean the screaming girls with their whiskers and who tweet them endlessly. Maybe it is possible to be a fan of theirs without being a part of this giant frankly a bit frightening group (which is really a vocal minority that ends up being the general yardstick for everyone else I think).

Personally I also don't watch their liveshows "live" because of this - I find the chat really cringeworthy sometimes and it's quite uncomfortable seeing students who stayed awake till like 4am to watch them - or say things like they're watching them in class/in church etc etc. I just ... feel it's rather unhealthy. And the liveshow chat asks such weird things These are just my opinions though! I don't want to seem like we condescend the "phandom" because I think people can do whatever they want at the stage of life they're at and it's okay! Just that uh I don't really consider myself part of that.

[dontpanic]

I just find this topic of Deppy clickbait so fascinating since it seems to pop up so often (by big youtubers and up-and-comers alike). IDK why i will never forget Joey graceffa's NYC vlog where he has deps in the thumbnail even though they barely appear in his vlog, and who could forget jim chapman's pizza party video where deppy are literally in the title when they only appear in it for NO JOKE 30 seconds. I went back to fact check my most hated vlogs and yup, still classic got that adblocker on tho, not adding to that revenue stream.

I'm totally rehashing all the obvi things, but imo it's kinda smart for other youtubers to use them as clickbait, aside from the disgusting-ness of it all. They never really interact with deppy since deppy doesn't often interact with anyone in the youtube community, even at work events. Last year they didn't go to sitc and were barely at vidcon, the years prior (judging from different vlogs) they don't really hang out with others instagram style the way the gleam team and stuff do, they hang with the same couple people and when in other groups they just kinda hover (same with that creater event thing I totally forgot the name of), and the past two years they didn't do any group youtube rewind events. Deps also don't do the whole "let's collab and pretend to be friends to get more views," so no interaction from that front either.

When you don't have to talk to someone or look them in the eye it's a lot easier to exploit their following for views. Same for the sexual jokes and fake crushes on them that shane/marcus/etc. talk about. It's kinda like how it's easy for people to make sexual comments about a celebrity, they're removed from your life so it's easy to forget they're real people you might one day run into (not that deps are celebrities, just a similar/not as drastic type of concept).

Also, as you've all said way more concise than I am, the type of youtubers who clickbait/name drop them know how to make that sweet sweet ad revenue last. Not only does Deppy have an extraordinarily active fanbase, but they have a subscribership in the same demographic as themselves. Felix for example has an arguably more active fanbase than deppy, but pewdiepie isn't exploited by vloggers (wallstreet journal say what?) the way D&P are (same goes with ppl like jacksepticeye etc). Deppy wouldn't just be a one off spike in views, they would bring in potential new subscribers. Deppy fans would come watch videos and maybe decide to subscribe (and old subscribers might remember this channel and start watching more videos).

All on top of the normal clickbait-yness, of course.

[malday]

Worst than clickbaiters are the professional reactors that turn into professional deppy reactors.

You know the ones that end up reacting to every deppy video under the sun because the phandom comes back for more.

[momoroki]

Worst than clickbaiters are the professional reactors that turn into professional deppy reactors.

You know the ones that end up reacting to every deppy video under the sun because the phandom comes back for more.

*cough* theMJWay *cough* LazyJamie
at least theMJway is kind of entertaining in himself, i swear lazyjamie is completely dead inside and made me cringe so hard when i watched one of his reaction vids i was starved for content okay
the worst thing is, when you look at the comment section, it's all phangirls who are like "omg he ships it so hard!!!!!! lololol!!!!!!" y'all are fuckin blind it's so obvious that he's not actually interested in them

anyway enough of my Salt, i suppose it's my own fault for clicking on the videos in the first place.
I do kind of feel sorry (but not sorry bc it's their fault) for people who react to phan so much that it becomes their entire channel. smaller channels especially gotta be careful of that line that needs to be drawn - too much phan and you'll be trapped because your entire viewerbase is only interested in another person's content, but it does reliably bring that ad revenue in when you have no other ideas. basically a game of #howlowcanyougo

[CallMeAyana]

Too bad for them, though. We're not as dehydrated as we were when Deppy was on tour.

Worst than clickbaiters are the professional reactors that turn into professional deppy reactors.

You know the ones that end up reacting to every deppy video under the sun because the phandom comes back for more.

Also... this. Why are reaction channels even a thing? Like... why would anyone want to watch that? It's like let's plays and walkthroughs (only that those two are waaaaaaay better) - you tend to watch the actual video/game instead of the one reacting/playing. You know what I mean? Your attention is taken by the bigger screen, which is, most of the time, the actual video, so... Also, if not, you also want to see what they're reacting to, so you tend to watch the actual video instead (and after watching it, you realize that you actually just watched what they reacted to, not the one who reacted). So... yeah. People should just watch the actual video.

[helloflyingjellyfish]

Too bad for them, though. We're not as dehydrated as we were when Deppy was on tour.

Worst than clickbaiters are the professional reactors that turn into professional deppy reactors.

You know the ones that end up reacting to every deppy video under the sun because the phandom comes back for more.

Also... this. Why are reaction channels even a thing? Like... why would anyone want to watch that? It's like let's plays and walkthroughs (only that those two are waaaaaaay better) - you tend to watch the actual video/game instead of the one reacting/playing. You know what I mean? Your attention is taken by the bigger screen, which is, most of the time, the actual video, so... Also, if not, you also want to see what they're reacting to, so you tend to watch the actual video instead (and after watching it, you realize that you actually just watched what they reacted to, not the one who reacted). So... yeah. People should just watch the actual video.

Yeah and most of them are just people watching the video. I really don't see a point to them unless they plan to analyse it or something and even if they are analysing it, they don't need to show the video, they can just talk about it. It's just using other people's work for views.

[papierklemmen]

i think it's like when children want to show their older brother or a parent something they like and anticipate their reaction. that's the idea of a reaction video.

i've seen a couple of those professional reactors' vids and they're so uncomfortable to watch lol, those poor guys are just putting on a show to appear as if they like it. also i swear none of them know how to properly "react", most of them do random shit or talk about something else during it or start repeating the action shown in the video, like what is the point. the only reaction videos that have ever made sense to me are the children react and elders react tbh.
i also don't like that one couple that reacts to a lot of deppy's videos, i know some people here like them, but i've checked them out and they just tend to start talking about themselves while watching the video, so why are we supposed to care about their reactions lol.

[human]

Oh Phil.
Tweet for reference:

He also says Queen's dogs>Queen herself. Obviously

Huh. I didn't get this on notif lol.

[SquishPhan]

Oh Phil.
Tweet for reference:

He also says Queen's dogs>Queen herself. Obviously

Clearly Phil got his priorities right.

[thephandommenace]

Thanks for the welcomes! I feel better already~
It's a big deal for me to express my opinions, it's something I've struggled with all my life. Also, sorry for the small font LeftHandedism haha

Also hello delurkers! I dunno - I've been watching Dan and Phil for years and I'mdefinitely their fan but I don't feel at all like I'm part of the "phandom"? By "phandom" I mean the screaming girls with their whiskers and who tweet them endlessly. Maybe it is possible to be a fan of theirs without being a part of this giant frankly a bit frightening group (which is really a vocal minority that ends up being the general yardstick for everyone else I think).

Personally I also don't watch their liveshows "live" because of this - I find the chat really cringeworthy sometimes and it's quite uncomfortable seeing students who stayed awake till like 4am to watch them - or say things like they're watching them in class/in church etc etc. I just ... feel it's rather unhealthy. And the liveshow chat asks such weird things These are just my opinions though! I don't want to seem like we condescend the "phandom" because I think people can do whatever they want at the stage of life they're at and it's okay! Just that uh I don't really consider myself part of that.
flurry
delia smith’s placenta

Depends on what you define as the "phandom" - I mean, even saying it aloud, I feel shame, and I picture the loud embarrassing vocal entity rather than funny, creative individuals with interests in common. I feel it'd be hypocritical to think I'm "different" from or "better" than them. I've read fanfiction about two real guys, gone on YT odysseys, read timelines, replied to them on Twitter, gone swimming in Phil's eyes...
I've never been a screamer/crier/obsessed with famous people before, yet when I watched the vlog of the TATINOF M&G by the girl who sang "thank you Dan and Phil" I felt a bit overcome when I saw them come out on camera. I felt like I would scream as part of the crowd and maybe get choked up if I met them. (Might have been bc I was watching a vlog by a group of young teenagers, though.) So yeah, I guess that makes me a Phan.

Interesting you say that. They're the first YTers I've ever felt compelled to sit through a ls for. I find everyone else so boring and I usually hate listening to other people being productive while I just sit and watch, makes me feel 100x lazier. But I actually care about them now so I'm happy to listen to them babble for an hour.

[lurker]

kind of ot by now, but with some recent posts commenting on alligning with the "phandom" or not, i've been thinking back to the discussion of dan vs. dismissing his female audience. i think it's interesting that while many of us feel uncomfortable/disappointed in him with regards to some aspects of this, at the same time many of us (me included) are sometimes quick to dismiss the vocal/loud/"cringey" part of the phandom as "teenage phangirls". and of course there's a basis for this; audience statistics, demographics, tumblr bios, and footage from events like tatinof show that it's a somewhat safe guess to assume. it's also obvious that an older audience such as the majority (i think?) on here will tend to have a different "viewer-creator relationship" than a group that's 5-25-ish years younger. but i can't help but feel that being dismissive of the younger, mostly female part of the audience within the older audience comes from a very similar place where dan apparently craves validation from an older, male audience, and i feel like it's important to realize that there's nothing inherently "better" or, say, more "intellectual" in being an adult watching deppy as escapism/for the discussion/for entertainment than being, say, a 15 year-old girl who watches dan because he's her "celebrity crush" and she thinks he's hot.

(not talking about people who are actually being rude etc., also not directed at anyone specifically, i'm including myself in this and i'd just like to hear opinions on this if anyone is down to discuss this topic)

[fancybum]

kind of ot by now, but with some recent posts commenting on alligning with the "phandom" or not, i've been thinking back to the discussion of dan vs. dismissing his female audience. i think it's interesting that while many of us feel uncomfortable/disappointed in him with regards to some aspects of this, at the same time many of us (me included) are sometimes quick to dismiss the vocal/loud/"cringey" part of the phandom as "teenage phangirls". and of course there's a basis for this; audience statistics, demographics, tumblr bios, and footage from events like tatinof show that it's a somewhat safe guess to assume. it's also obvious that an older audience such as the majority (i think?) on here will tend to have a different "viewer-creator relationship" than a group that's 5-25-ish years younger. but i can't help but feel that being dismissive of the younger, mostly female part of the audience within the older audience comes from a very similar place where dan apparently craves validation from an older, male audience, and i feel like it's important to realize that there's nothing inherently "better" or, say, more "intellectual" in being an adult watching deppy as escapism/for the discussion/for entertainment than being, say, a 15 year-old girl who watches dan because he's her "celebrity crush" and she thinks he's hot.

(not talking about people who are actually being rude etc., also not directed at anyone specifically, i'm including myself in this and i'd just like to hear opinions on this if anyone is down to discuss this topic)

I'm sorry for not adding anything more to this as I'm on my phone and working, but thanks for this post. It's fine to criticize certain behaviours/people for specific things, but the dismissiveness toward a general group is basically the fandom equivalent of that pretty toxic "I'm not like those other girls" mindset some women take to fit in with the dudes that put those other girls down. Maybe that's a stretch but it just feels like that same attitude, and that never does anybody any favours. "I'm not part of the phandom" doesn't really mean anything if you're on this forum lol. "the phandom" is just a name for "people who are fans of dan and phil" and like any large group it has its share of awful people too, but why let them define the full group (or allow other people to do so and agree with it)? anyway that's my non-contribution for now.

[flurry]

it's also obvious that an older audience such as the majority (i think?) on here will tend to have a different "viewer-creator relationship" than a group that's 5-25-ish years younger. but i can't help but feel that being dismissive of the younger, mostly female part of the audience within the older audience comes from a very similar place where dan apparently craves validation from an older, male audience, and i feel like it's important to realize that there's nothing inherently "better" or, say, more "intellectual" in being an adult watching deppy as escapism/for the discussion/for entertainment than being, say, a 15 year-old girl who watches dan because he's her "celebrity crush" and she thinks he's hot.

(not talking about people who are actually being rude etc., also not directed at anyone specifically, i'm including myself in this and i'd just like to hear opinions on this if anyone is down to discuss this topic)

Yep! I agree with you! I think it's important to acknowledge (for myself too) that feeling not part of the typical "phans" category doesn't make a person better or worse, just different - a neutral difference, because afterall as you rightly pointed out, people behave differently at various stages of life and they have different perspectives on celebrity/internet culture etc. too. It's okay to be all screamy and excited and vocal and fan-ish - just that for myself, I was never really into that so much - and that's alright too Some time ago here, someone posted about this website being on tumblr and some others responded by wanting it to be taken down so the forum won't be "overrun" by tumblr phangirls. Which is also something I don't understand - especially as an active tumblr user myself, I don't get the whole maligning of tumblr fans/phans and why they're somehow inferior in some way to the conversation here. It's not as if the conversation here is always deep and philosophical and great It can encompass a broad variety of things too that everyone can partake in.

thephandommenace I do watch their liveshows - just not "live" haha

[thephandommenace]

The cycle continues~

thephandommenace I do watch their liveshows - just not "live" haha

Haha sorry, I realised my mistake after posting. I think I had a point I wanted to make there somewhere and got lost. Like always

[karma_yeah]

Just my 2 cents on the "Do you consider yourself a 'Phan' " question . . .

I agree with what a lot of you have said. I do consider myself a "Phan" (I watch everything they make, read their twitters, check out tumblrs, may have read a fanfic or 2 during times of drought, went to Tatinof, bought their books and some merch, and . . . well I'm on IDB, so I feel like it would be hypocritical to say I wasn't part of the "Phandom" as in: people who love .

I'm just not a stereotypical teen, screaming, reply to everything, spamming them with comments type Phan (although I may have squealed when I saw them come on stage for the first time)

I also don't think it's really important whether someone chooses to "own" the word or not. But I can see how someone might feel slightly offended if someone slams "the Phandom" as a whole. We just have to remember they may be referring to the stereotypical segment of the phandom.

My sense is most people on IDB dearly and are not stereotypical (which is why I love you )

[000dia000]

I'm also one of those people who wouldn't really consider themselves a "phan" or typical phan member. However, at the same time, saying something like that makes me gag as it sounds like "I'm not like other girls." I know I'm full of shit, and even if I don't type "IM SCREAMING" or draw cat whiskers on my face, doesn't mean I'm any less cringey. I've got to remember my place, remember who I Stan, not to be so condescending and don't act like there's a phandom hierarchy and I see us all as sacks of meat anyway. And I like the discussion here on how people feel estranged from typical "phandom" members, but they also feel estranged from us on this gossip forum.
This topic name is literally "There's no Integrity Here" after all, the name reflects the content.