Dan & Phil Part 43: I'll touch you when I please

[fancybum]

waiting for somebody on Tumblr to think Bryony is a secret girlfriend
interesting how Dan so easily appears in an Instagram to show he's back in the country, but wouldn't say they are on twitter or even casual. It's their private lives and they have no obligation blah blah but it sure does sting, that this is such a strong indication that they really don't like their phandom (at least in my opinion) they don't say anything about anything, even small things that aren't necessarily private.

Idk but seeing Dan's smug face puts me in a bad mood because he knows the phandom will see it, so no need to bother to tweet, upload a video or do anything. The phandom puts in so much work to support them, and they give so little back, it kind of annoys me how they just provide so little and yet people flounder to please them, buy their merch, scream and cry when they like their tweet. Funny how a single picture puts me in a bad mood, but it just puts into perspective how bloody condescending and privileged they are as "creators" and by doing fuck all

I don't fully understand your problem, even after further explanation. What specifically would it have added if Dan had at some point (before Bryony's pic) tweeted 'back in london now'? Why does their physical whereabouts mean anything beyond sating some strange curiosity? Like I understand the curiosity of just wondering where they are and what they're doing in general, but outside of work-related activities (meet and greets/conventions), why the fuck is it the business of millions of strangers where they happen to be? Again, curiosity is one thing. But you're actually angry he didn't make a point to tell 'us' he was back and that makes no sense. Youtube (for established 'big' YTers now) is no longer about bored teenagers connecting to other bored teenagers, they are entertainers now. And they're not even pushing the narrative of us all being close friends ('you might be a cannibal'), so you're angry they've grown out of how they/YT started. Years ago by now. I mean you do you, but that kind of anger over something as tiny as an actual close friend of Dan's posting a selfie doesn't really make sense. Just because he's back doesn't mean he's out of vacation mode anyway, why does he need to turn it back on the second he's back home? I'm surprised they're not more openly hostile to the fans tbh with shit like this.

Personally, I think objectively, it's bad how we defend them in saying "they don't have to do this for us." And that's true, they're allowed to have a private life, and they're allowed not to show something. But doesn't anybody else find it weird how as a phandom people defend them for not creating content when it's their job? For wishing and wanting them to create stuff they know deppy will never do? I'm not looking to see into their private life, I'm not even really looking to see them post more, I'm just making an observation as how a phandom we're so easily pleased when deppy just do so little? Them not tweeting they're in London prompted this discussion, it was my annoyance from such a small thing that prompted my post about how deppy are quite frankly just privileged with their phandom who praise them, and defend them for doing nothing at all.

Also what is this even in reaction to? They're been posting videos more regularly than ever, even over the past few weeks of vacation/convention.

[000dia000]

fancybum It's nothing to do with the pictures, they're innocent as they are, it's just the idea that was prompted from the timing of them. My posts were less about this instance and more about how their behaviour is over-all. I have no relationship to old YouTube and how it "used to be". And again, your comment "shit like this?" Really? I'm pointing out an attitude they have with their audience, and the leniency the phandom has to that. Maybe they too would disagree with what I have to say, and if they were hostile, at least they would be honest, isn't that what most people want?

[gerrymandering]

why should they have to disclose where they are every day? i mean if i'd had trouble with stalkers in the past, i wouldn't be plastering my location all over social media either.

[fancybum]

fancybum It's nothing to do with the pictures, they're innocent as they are, it's just the idea that was prompted from the timing of them. My posts were less about this instance and more about how their behaviour is over-all. I have no relationship to old YouTube and how it "used to be". And again, your comment "shit like this?" Really? I'm pointing out an attitude they have with their audience, and the leniency the phandom has to that. Maybe they too would disagree with what I have to say, and if they were hostile, at least they would be honest, isn't that what most people want?

Ok I just don't understand what specific complaint is happening then. Like all of this would have made sense when they were just doing book spon and the tour drought maybe. But they're very active in terms of posting videos lately and, until their vacation, with tweeting pretty regularly too. So I don't see any attitude they're having toward the audience beyond 'I'm not going to engage too much this week because I'm literally taking time off from work'. I mean... what's the issue? They're as impersonal as ever with their audience, while also being less guarded interpersonally which is kind of funny I guess . Were you expecting more significant change along with that or something? They'll never be oversharers, the lines are pretty clear.

[bluewho]

I have to say Dia I can't really see where you are coming from with this. I agree with you Dan and Phil seem to dislike their audience and are extremely private in general and shut us out. I don't really see this as a particular example though. Phil tweeting a picture of a cookie is friendly, it's not out of character for him, it is normal? I don't see what your issue with that is. Also I don't think Dan and Phil have to announce where they are and what they are doing all the time. They do give us content, and they give us enough content, and they are currently giving us more content than they have in the past. I don't think Dan not telling he's back in London is him being too private even.

I agree with your general thoughts and feelings, but I think because of the situation they are in they cannot really be any other way than private and resentful. I find it upsetting but unavoidable, and I would not blame them for being this way. I just don't see this as an example of that kind of behaviour at all.

[saffarinda]

Thank you! I was mainly concerned because they put a filter on the video, and are saying that because it was edited it now resides under fair use, which means Phil's automatic removal won't be able to delete the video. Is it that easy to bypass it, and if so is the only way for it to be removed just reporting or would Phil have to personally take action to remove it?

This always happens from time to time. Even if they bypass the automated id system, all the video copies on youtube get removed eventually, i wouldn't worry too much about it.

I try to avoid them a lot so I didn't know what would happen with it - thanks for the reassurances

[fondsmiles]

000dia000 I kind of do get what you're feeling, in the sense that I've outgrown people I looked up to before as well, them and/or the fandom around them. It's a weird thing, really loving them, but then gradually seeing more things that just didn't sit right with me personally. It made me sad to feel this way, and occasionally resentful and angry, even though I don't typically feel this way.
What I find important to remember though, is, that people simply just change. Always do. The people we look up to do, our friends do, we do. Sometimes we change together or in similar ways, and that can make you feel even closer, but sometimes the change comes in a way that doesn't allow us to change together. Nobody's at fault for that. People are different, and you don't always get along. It does hurt, to lose something you cared about, but in my opinion that is something coming in equal amounts from them and from yourself/myself, just a product of the situation.

Talking about this specific situation: You might wish something different from Dan and Phil, you might need more or other things. But that's not true for everyone else. I, for example, feel incredibly happy with how much they're sharing, how many videos they're posting, and in my perception they become more and more open in who they are in videos and else. We obviously don't feel the same way, and there's no way to know who's "right" or "wrong", probably because those are all subjective feelings.

What we especially don't know is Dan and Phil's thoughts. You might be right, and they resent fans mostly and don't appreciate them and cut themselves off further and further. I might be right, and they are sometimes annoyed but often grateful and happy to have this community, and become more happy and themselves as each month passes. We don't know, and we'll never do; but I know that I am happy here and I know that I understand that you feel different for whatever reason.
I hope you'll find that happiness here again, or be able to move on to fandoms that fit your current interests more. I know I've done that in the past with other people, and letting go of the grudges I held felt good, and now I can appreciate what I felt at the time without being sad that I don't like that person anymore.
Either way; I hope you figure this out for yourself to be able to feel more content.

[flarequake]

Do they seem to dislike their audience? Maybe I've got rose-tinted spectacles on too tight, I see the opposite except occasionally Dan gets annoyed but then he usually has to point out he's joking cos people start worrying. Heck, so much washes past me that others notice, I dunno.

[missemma]

I agree with you Dan and Phil seem to dislike their audience and are extremely private in general and shut us out.

I don't think Dan and Phil dislike their audience at all. I think they are two very private people and tbh who can blame them. They've grown up in the public eye, having had people scrutinise their every move. They still to this day have people dragging up things from their past (that they deleted for a reason), their friends get stalked on social media and have to set their profiles to private so they don't get hassled. Dan's ex had some "fans" (a small majority) spamming her social media. People tweet out their address "for fun", others stalk Dan's family members. Who can blame them for trying to keep things private, I certainly don't, the phandom can be pretty invasive. If they wish to keep things private then so be it but it doesn't mean they dislike us, they just like their privacy.

[VengefulBlue]

i agree with fondsmiles and flarequake; to me they seem to at least appreciate us, whether they like us as people. they know they have a devoted audience and they seem to be more honest now, though perhaps less open. i'd say the difference is they aren't lying to us anymore ("mutual friend" smh), but they're also sharing less detail about their daily lives. (plus they actually mentioned having stalkers as early as 2012, if you look back at old live shows, so the move towards less specific location/daily life updates makes sense from a safety standpoint.)

Sometimes we change together or in similar ways, and that can make you feel even closer

this is pretty much it. i've changed my social media use in ways similar to d&p in the past few years, so for me the change feels natural and positive.

[bluebox-away]

Really don't fancy getting into this debate, but I certainly don't think they dislike their audience as some of you seem to suggest. Anyhow, here's another cute picture of Dan that Phil almost certainly took God I love that shirt on him

[hunnyftw]

000dia000 I kind of do get what you're feeling, in the sense that I've outgrown people I looked up to before as well, them and/or the fandom around them. It's a weird thing, really loving them, but then gradually seeing more things that just didn't sit right with me personally. It made me sad to feel this way, and occasionally resentful and angry, even though I don't typically feel this way.
What I find important to remember though, is, that people simply just change. Always do. The people we look up to do, our friends do, we do. Sometimes we change together or in similar ways, and that can make you feel even closer, but sometimes the change comes in a way that doesn't allow us to change together. Nobody's at fault for that. People are different, and you don't always get along. It does hurt, to lose something you cared about, but in my opinion that is something coming in equal amounts from them and from yourself/myself, just a product of the situation.

Talking about this specific situation: You might wish something different from Dan and Phil, you might need more or other things. But that's not true for everyone else. I, for example, feel incredibly happy with how much they're sharing, how many videos they're posting, and in my perception they become more and more open in who they are in videos and else. We obviously don't feel the same way, and there's no way to know who's "right" or "wrong", probably because those are all subjective feelings.

What we especially don't know is Dan and Phil's thoughts. You might be right, and they resent fans mostly and don't appreciate them and cut themselves off further and further. I might be right, and they are sometimes annoyed but often grateful and happy to have this community, and become more happy and themselves as each month passes. We don't know, and we'll never do; but I know that I am happy here and I know that I understand that you feel different for whatever reason.
I hope you'll find that happiness here again, or be able to move on to fandoms that fit your current interests more. I know I've done that in the past with other people, and letting go of the grudges I held felt good, and now I can appreciate what I felt at the time without being sad that I don't like that person anymore.
Either way; I hope you figure this out for yourself to be able to feel more content.

Yes yes yes. Please, imagine me furiously smashing that non-existent thanks button. While quoting you I initially wanted to stress the parts I liked the most, but gave up because I found myself agreeing with all of it equally. That's how I feel about the conversation that 000dia000started but of course I wasn't quick and witty enough to put it into words.
Dia, although I largely don't feel the same way you do about Deppy's relationship with their viewers and their job, I do find your point of view really interesting. One thing I can slightly agree on is that from time to time they do seem to be a little bit exhausted or annoyed with their viewers. However it is not a constant, and I would never call it an outward strong resentment. More being a human with a limited patience.
At the end of the day what is evident is that it your post at least made a lot of people feel and, more importantly, think a lot which is always valuable in my book. So in a way... thanks for that, I guess?


Edit: Ugh, I almost feel bad for not fawning all over it, as I tend to do when Dan posts an instagram, but to me his new photo is almost insufferably pretentious. Boo. I still love his hair though

[bluewho]

000dia000 I kind of do get what you're feeling, in the sense that I've outgrown people I looked up to before as well, them and/or the fandom around them. It's a weird thing, really loving them, but then gradually seeing more things that just didn't sit right with me personally. It made me sad to feel this way, and occasionally resentful and angry, even though I don't typically feel this way.
What I find important to remember though, is, that people simply just change. Always do. The people we look up to do, our friends do, we do. Sometimes we change together or in similar ways, and that can make you feel even closer, but sometimes the change comes in a way that doesn't allow us to change together. Nobody's at fault for that. People are different, and you don't always get along. It does hurt, to lose something you cared about, but in my opinion that is something coming in equal amounts from them and from yourself/myself, just a product of the situation.

Talking about this specific situation: You might wish something different from Dan and Phil, you might need more or other things. But that's not true for everyone else. I, for example, feel incredibly happy with how much they're sharing, how many videos they're posting, and in my perception they become more and more open in who they are in videos and else. We obviously don't feel the same way, and there's no way to know who's "right" or "wrong", probably because those are all subjective feelings.

What we especially don't know is Dan and Phil's thoughts. You might be right, and they resent fans mostly and don't appreciate them and cut themselves off further and further. I might be right, and they are sometimes annoyed but often grateful and happy to have this community, and become more happy and themselves as each month passes. We don't know, and we'll never do; but I know that I am happy here and I know that I understand that you feel different for whatever reason.
I hope you'll find that happiness here again, or be able to move on to fandoms that fit your current interests more. I know I've done that in the past with other people, and letting go of the grudges I held felt good, and now I can appreciate what I felt at the time without being sad that I don't like that person anymore.
Either way; I hope you figure this out for yourself to be able to feel more content.

I think it's a mixed picture. I am not a fan of the totally positive march of progress argument I sometimes see. I think they are more open and genuine in their interaction in videos now. I see more authenticity. They are not afraid to show us how comfortable they are around each other, and how close. And that's good, and that's progress. But they are still very much (imo) a closeted couple. They are still 'no phanoing', we are still being painted as creepy crazy shippers who can't tell the difference between reality and fantasy. And that is okay because it has to be that way. But the downside of them being a closeted couple is that they have to be private about things. We may never see their house, their bedroom etc, or learn how they really feel about each other and we may never hear Dan or Phil say shippers are not crazy because to do so would imply that they are really in a relationship (which I still see them as reluctant to do).

Another aspect of the situation is that they are now Famous with a capital PH. They cannot disclose where they are, where they are going and where they live without people harassing them for photos in large groups or putting hair and love letters through their letterbox.

Under these situations, of course they are going to be private, of course they are going to be resentful. No matter how much money they have the phandom is the reason they get no peace and can't even hug in public.

[The_Blonde]

Do they seem to dislike their audience? Maybe I've got rose-tinted spectacles on too tight, I see the opposite except occasionally Dan gets annoyed but then he usually has to point out he's joking cos people start worrying. Heck, so much washes past me that others notice, I dunno.

I'm with you on this - I definitely see times where they (or mainly Dan lbr) seem a little exasperated, but I would never say it comes across as actual dislike. I mean, if they do dislike their audience then, to me anyway, they do a pretty good job of hiding it, I don't think I've ever read an account of them being impolite to their fans.

Edit: That Dan photo

[rizzo]

This convo right now..... Dan's @ replies on twitter regarding the new insta are really apropos. I might even argue it's too coincidental.

That insta's really pretty though.

(And now he's on a reply spree. Give the fans what they want, I guess. Heh.)

[confusedpanda]

Really don't fancy getting into this debate, but I certainly don't think they dislike their audience as some of you seem to suggest. Anyhow, here's another cute picture of Dan that Phil almost certainly took God I love that shirt on him

He's decided for nicer photos, he's only gonna post them on tumblr and ig. Though I'm not really sure why?

[fancy_nancy]

Really don't fancy getting into this debate, but I certainly don't think they dislike their audience as some of you seem to suggest. Anyhow, here's another cute picture of Dan that Phil almost certainly took God I love that shirt on him

I saw a man so beautiful I started crying?

[hannah]

Really don't fancy getting into this debate, but I certainly don't think they dislike their audience as some of you seem to suggest. Anyhow, here's another cute picture of Dan that Phil almost certainly took God I love that shirt on him

Has Dan ever considered getting into modelling? I can see him doing amazing editorial

[bluebox-away]

This convo right now..... Dan's @ replies on twitter regarding the new insta are really apropos. I might even argue it's too coincidental.

That insta's really pretty though.

(And now he's on a reply spree. Give the fans what they want, I guess. Heh.)

^My exact thoughts on his convenient picture posting and replying session
Also, Phil took the photo confirmed

[SquishPhan]

I agree with you Dan and Phil seem to dislike their audience and are extremely private in general and shut us out.

I don't think Dan and Phil dislike their audience at all. I think they are two very private people and tbh who can blame them. They've grown up in the public eye, having had people scrutinise their every move. They still to this day have people dragging up things from their past (that they deleted for a reason), their friends get stalked on social media and have to set their profiles to private so they don't get hassled. Dan's ex had some "fans" (a small majority) spamming her social media. People tweet out their address "for fun", others stalk Dan's family members. Who can blame them for trying to keep things private, I certainly don't, the phandom can be pretty invasive. If they wish to keep things private then so be it but it doesn't mean they dislike us, they just like their privacy.

Totally agree with this.

Really don't fancy getting into this debate, but I certainly don't think they dislike their audience as some of you seem to suggest. Anyhow, here's another cute picture of Dan that Phil almost certainly took God I love that shirt on him

What a lovely pic. Phil does always take the best pics of Dan.

[Moon]

Dan's pic looks some kind of album art I love it (perfect for the singer!dan au)

[Flomy]

Really don't fancy getting into this debate, but I certainly don't think they dislike their audience as some of you seem to suggest. Anyhow, here's another cute picture of Dan that Phil almost certainly took God I love that shirt on him

He's decided for nicer photos, he's only gonna post them on tumblr and ig. Though I'm not really sure why?

Sign me up for those shameless selfies. What a handsome guy. :lel: Would love to see what that shirt looks like when it's buttoned up (on him)!

[lurker]

Really don't fancy getting into this debate, but I certainly don't think they dislike their audience as some of you seem to suggest. Anyhow, here's another cute picture of Dan that Phil almost certainly took God I love that shirt on him

wasn't there a joint liveshow last year where dan talked about how phil wasn't able to take decent photos? i would like him to eat his words and make a formal apology because phil certainly has a knack for taking photos of dan.

[bluewho]

I agree with you Dan and Phil seem to dislike their audience and are extremely private in general and shut us out.

I don't think Dan and Phil dislike their audience at all. I think they are two very private people and tbh who can blame them. They've grown up in the public eye, having had people scrutinise their every move. They still to this day have people dragging up things from their past (that they deleted for a reason), their friends get stalked on social media and have to set their profiles to private so they don't get hassled. Dan's ex had some "fans" (a small majority) spamming her social media. People tweet out their address "for fun", others stalk Dan's family members. Who can blame them for trying to keep things private, I certainly don't, the phandom can be pretty invasive. If they wish to keep things private then so be it but it doesn't mean they dislike us, they just like their privacy.

To clarify, I don't think being increasingly private is a sign of dislike. My opinion is that they do both like and dislike their audience, and that it's a more nuanced picture. I do sense some resentment there though especially in Dan's most recent content But as I stated above I strongly sympathise with him feeling this way.

[SquishPhan]

Also, Phil took the photo confirmed

I don't know what Dan is talking about, because Phil has always taken the best pics of Dan, and I will fight him about this.