Dan & Phil Part 46: Some kind of a gay backstory

[Grey]

So Shane Dawson is at it again. He had the Psychic Twins on his podcast and they were talking about Dan and Phil. This episode is only on fullscreen so far, so in the meantime I've transcribed what they said under the spoiler tag:

Shane: This is something people are very curious about. This is a big conspiracy right now.
This is weird for me to talk about because I feel like this is this weird "outing" thing. I don't want to do that, but their fans are convinced that Dan and Phil, youtubers Dan and Phil, are actually in a gay relationship and have been this whole time. I don't think they are, I just think they're fucking with the audience and I think they think it's funny, y'know.

Jessie (co host): Their fashion is not gay enough. I've seen their sneakers in real life and there is no way they're gay.

Shane: Right. But their audience is convinced. They have created this story in their heads that they are together. Now, our psychics, what do you see for Dan and Phil's relationship?

Linda (one of the twins): Well, we invited them on our show as you know (Shane), you were there and they still haven't taken us up on it even after we said, "what are you hiding, Dan and Phil?"
We were pretty open about wanting them to come on the show, but they avoided coming on for whatever reason.
And we know they saw it because they were going "we'll see you in the future" the next video they made.

Shane: Wait, what?

Linda: That's why we know they saw it.

Terry (second twin): They did our outro. And anyway, so this is what I think. We don't actually out people, Shane, as you know, but I think that they have a thing.

Shane: You do?

Terry: Yes.

Linda: I think they did and do. But uh, you know here we said we weren't gonna out anybody. Is this okay?

Jessie: Yeah!

Linda: Okay

Jessie: What are your thoughts?

Terry: What do you think, Drew?

Drew (musical host): I can't comment on that.

Shane: I think, personally, I think that ... I wish they did. I just have a weird feeling that they don't.

Jessie: I'm telling you. Those sneakers. I've seen them.

Shane: But I also maybe think they do and I'm afraid to say it because I don't wanna out them. You know what I mean?

Linda: Remember, what happened with Cameron in Fifth Harmony...

(they go on to list people they predicted were gay)

Shane: So for all the Dan and Phil fans, the psychic twins think they're together, so you're welcome.

I feel the need to point out an argument my sister made last time Shane made and Dan and Phil conspiracy video:
Shane makes conspiracy videos about all types of people, youtubers and celebrities. He does not usually restrain himself from mentioning things in these videos, even if I think it's invasive and rude, he does it to everyone. So why are Dan and Phil the exception? Yes I obviously like Dan and Phil, so I get upset when Shane does something like this, but why should I expect Dan and Phil to be 'protected' from this kind of thing, what makes them different or special from anyone else who Shane analyzes?

Honestly, Shane's conspiracy theory videos are my guilty pleasure and I do watch them sometimes (I'm sorry! Haha). But I thought having Dan and Phil's relationship as a "conspiracy" was really weird and I didn't like it. Not because they need to be protected though. I thought it was weird because usually the conspiracies he does are so out there and crazy. That's why I like his conspiracy videos - they're FUNNY. They're not realistic. Dan and Phil's relationship is not a crazy out-there idea like his usual conspiracies.

The other thing is, Shane is their COLLEAGUE. I know YouTube isn't a normal workplace but it's still really strange and inappropriate to have your colleague discussing your sexuality/relationship status like that. Obviously in normal workplaces gossip happens but this is more than gossip since he's posting a video about it. It's more like if someone made a poll about your sexuality and passed it around the office or something. Not okay IMO.

Edit: also Shane doesn't "analyze" anything. His videos are mindless drivel at best. But that's okay (IMO) if what you're talking about is whether or not Katy Perry is a reptile.

[llion]

So Shane Dawson is at it again. He had the Psychic Twins on his podcast and they were talking about Dan and Phil. This episode is only on fullscreen so far, so in the meantime I've transcribed what they said under the spoiler tag:

Shane: This is something people are very curious about. This is a big conspiracy right now.
This is weird for me to talk about because I feel like this is this weird "outing" thing. I don't want to do that, but their fans are convinced that Dan and Phil, youtubers Dan and Phil, are actually in a gay relationship and have been this whole time. I don't think they are, I just think they're fucking with the audience and I think they think it's funny, y'know.

Jessie (co host): Their fashion is not gay enough. I've seen their sneakers in real life and there is no way they're gay.

Shane: Right. But their audience is convinced. They have created this story in their heads that they are together. Now, our psychics, what do you see for Dan and Phil's relationship?

Linda (one of the twins): Well, we invited them on our show as you know (Shane), you were there and they still haven't taken us up on it even after we said, "what are you hiding, Dan and Phil?"
We were pretty open about wanting them to come on the show, but they avoided coming on for whatever reason.
And we know they saw it because they were going "we'll see you in the future" the next video they made.

Shane: Wait, what?

Linda: That's why we know they saw it.

Terry (second twin): They did our outro. And anyway, so this is what I think. We don't actually out people, Shane, as you know, but I think that they have a thing.

Shane: You do?

Terry: Yes.

Linda: I think they did and do. But uh, you know here we said we weren't gonna out anybody. Is this okay?

Jessie: Yeah!

Linda: Okay

Jessie: What are your thoughts?

Terry: What do you think, Drew?

Drew (musical host): I can't comment on that.

Shane: I think, personally, I think that ... I wish they did. I just have a weird feeling that they don't.

Jessie: I'm telling you. Those sneakers. I've seen them.

Shane: But I also maybe think they do and I'm afraid to say it because I don't wanna out them. You know what I mean?

Linda: Remember, what happened with Cameron in Fifth Harmony...

(they go on to list people they predicted were gay)

Shane: So for all the Dan and Phil fans, the psychic twins think they're together, so you're welcome.

I feel the need to point out an argument my sister made last time Shane made and Dan and Phil conspiracy video:
Shane makes conspiracy videos about all types of people, youtubers and celebrities. He does not usually restrain himself from mentioning things in these videos, even if I think it's invasive and rude, he does it to everyone. So why are Dan and Phil the exception? Yes I obviously like Dan and Phil, so I get upset when Shane does something like this, but why should I expect Dan and Phil to be 'protected' from this kind of thing, what makes them different or special from anyone else who Shane analyzes?

Honestly, Shane's conspiracy theory videos are my guilty pleasure and I do watch them sometimes (I'm sorry! Haha). But I thought having Dan and Phil's relationship as a "conspiracy" was really weird and I didn't like it. Not because they need to be protected though. I thought it was weird because usually the conspiracies he does are so out there and crazy. That's why I like his conspiracy videos - they're FUNNY. They're not realistic. Dan and Phil's relationship is not a crazy out-there idea like his usual conspiracies.

The other thing is, Shane is their COLLEAGUE. I know YouTube isn't a normal workplace but it's still really strange and inappropriate to have your colleague discussing your sexuality/relationship status like that. Obviously in normal workplaces gossip happens but this is more than gossip since he's posting a video about it. It's more like if someone made a poll about your sexuality and passed it around the office or something. Not okay IMO.

Edit: also Shane doesn't "analyze" anything. His videos are mindless drivel at best. But that's okay (IMO) if what you're talking about is whether or not Katy Perry is a reptile.

sorry i can't put the wall of text under a spoiler, i think i've lost my mind. had to delete the initial post yikes

they're my guilty pleasure too, haha. they're usually funny, in the beginning a few were actually interesting but once they got popular he cashed out and they're just fluff. i agree that dan and phil are far too touchy a subject to ever be considered a "theory", or even remotely humorous. initially i felt like he maybe didn't do enough reasearch and was just making fun of shippers ( ) but after he brought it back again i was annoyed and confused. clearly he saw that it brought him attention and only wanted more.

and that's exactly why i was uncomfortable as well! it's just weird, almost creepy for youtubers to be speculating on anything about each other. shane is from a different wing of youtube, but so is jenna marbles and her mentions of our boys are fond and kindhearted. it's exactly like inappropriately talking about a coworker and it's uncalled for imo.

and yes, he just finds some outlandish things to recite in a creepy voice. i don't think i'd even watch them ever if it weren't for the voice, but it's such a mindless constant sound i enjoy it enough. (not anymore though. bye shane )

the twins have always made me uncomfortable though, they don't even have fun personalities or anything interesting to say. they're just weird and drama starters imo

[jesuisunèléve]

So Shane Dawson is at it again. He had the Psychic Twins on his podcast and they were talking about Dan and Phil. This episode is only on fullscreen so far, so in the meantime I've transcribed what they said under the spoiler tag:

Shane: This is something people are very curious about. This is a big conspiracy right now.
This is weird for me to talk about because I feel like this is this weird "outing" thing. I don't want to do that, but their fans are convinced that Dan and Phil, youtubers Dan and Phil, are actually in a gay relationship and have been this whole time. I don't think they are, I just think they're fucking with the audience and I think they think it's funny, y'know.

Jessie (co host): Their fashion is not gay enough. I've seen their sneakers in real life and there is no way they're gay.

Shane: Right. But their audience is convinced. They have created this story in their heads that they are together. Now, our psychics, what do you see for Dan and Phil's relationship?

Linda (one of the twins): Well, we invited them on our show as you know (Shane), you were there and they still haven't taken us up on it even after we said, "what are you hiding, Dan and Phil?"
We were pretty open about wanting them to come on the show, but they avoided coming on for whatever reason.
And we know they saw it because they were going "we'll see you in the future" the next video they made.

Shane: Wait, what?

Linda: That's why we know they saw it.

Terry (second twin): They did our outro. And anyway, so this is what I think. We don't actually out people, Shane, as you know, but I think that they have a thing.

Shane: You do?

Terry: Yes.

Linda: I think they did and do. But uh, you know here we said we weren't gonna out anybody. Is this okay?

Jessie: Yeah!

Linda: Okay

Jessie: What are your thoughts?

Terry: What do you think, Drew?

Drew (musical host): I can't comment on that.

Shane: I think, personally, I think that ... I wish they did. I just have a weird feeling that they don't.

Jessie: I'm telling you. Those sneakers. I've seen them.

Shane: But I also maybe think they do and I'm afraid to say it because I don't wanna out them. You know what I mean?

Linda: Remember, what happened with Cameron in Fifth Harmony...

(they go on to list people they predicted were gay)

Shane: So for all the Dan and Phil fans, the psychic twins think they're together, so you're welcome.

I feel the need to point out an argument my sister made last time Shane made and Dan and Phil conspiracy video:
Shane makes conspiracy videos about all types of people, youtubers and celebrities. He does not usually restrain himself from mentioning things in these videos, even if I think it's invasive and rude, he does it to everyone. So why are Dan and Phil the exception? Yes I obviously like Dan and Phil, so I get upset when Shane does something like this, but why should I expect Dan and Phil to be 'protected' from this kind of thing, what makes them different or special from anyone else who Shane analyzes?

Honestly, Shane's conspiracy theory videos are my guilty pleasure and I do watch them sometimes (I'm sorry! Haha). But I thought having Dan and Phil's relationship as a "conspiracy" was really weird and I didn't like it. Not because they need to be protected though. I thought it was weird because usually the conspiracies he does are so out there and crazy. That's why I like his conspiracy videos - they're FUNNY. They're not realistic. Dan and Phil's relationship is not a crazy out-there idea like his usual conspiracies.

The other thing is, Shane is their COLLEAGUE. I know YouTube isn't a normal workplace but it's still really strange and inappropriate to have your colleague discussing your sexuality/relationship status like that. Obviously in normal workplaces gossip happens but this is more than gossip since he's posting a video about it. It's more like if someone made a poll about your sexuality and passed it around the office or something. Not okay IMO.

Edit: also Shane doesn't "analyze" anything. His videos are mindless drivel at best. But that's okay (IMO) if what you're talking about is whether or not Katy Perry is a reptile.

sorry i can't put the wall of text under a spoiler, i think i've lost my mind. had to delete the initial post yikes

they're my guilty pleasure too, haha. they're usually funny, in the beginning a few were actually interesting but once they got popular he cashed out and they're just fluff. i agree that dan and phil are far too touchy a subject to ever be considered a "theory", or even remotely humorous. initially i felt like he maybe didn't do enough reasearch and was just making fun of shippers ( ) but after he brought it back again i was annoyed and confused. clearly he saw that it brought him attention and only wanted more.

and that's exactly why i was uncomfortable as well! it's just weird, almost creepy for youtubers to be speculating on anything about each other. shane is from a different wing of youtube, but so is jenna marbles and her mentions of our boys are fond and kindhearted. it's exactly like inappropriately talking about a coworker and it's uncalled for imo.

and yes, he just finds some outlandish things to recite in a creepy voice. i don't think i'd even watch them ever if it weren't for the voice, but it's such a mindless constant sound i enjoy it enough. (not anymore though. bye shane )

the twins have always made me uncomfortable though, they don't even have fun personalities or anything interesting to say. they're just weird and drama starters imo

Shane said, "I don't think they are, I just think they're fucking with the audience and I think they think it's funny, y'know."

Is he accusing them of queer-baiting, then? I don't appreciate his conspiracy, as he says it is, as well he's contradicting himself by saying he doesn't want to out them (same as the psychic twits) but what do they think they are doing by discussing it, especially the way they are discussing it? Regardless of what their relationship is, my understanding is that their "status" is not up for discussion. It's their private lives, let it stay that way. They don't have to prove or tell anyone anything. Besides, they know we know they know.

Now I understand why Dip & Dot don't hang out with their fellow YTer's on a regular. The drama is enough to drive anyone insane.

[llion]

Shane said, "I don't think they are, I just think they're fucking with the audience and I think they think it's funny, y'know."

Is he accusing them of queer-baiting, then? I don't appreciate his conspiracy, as he says it is, as well he's contradicting himself by saying he doesn't want to out them (same as the psychic twits) but what do they think they are doing by discussing it, especially the way they are discussing it? Regardless of what their relationship is, my understanding is that their "status" is not up for discussion. It's their private lives, let it stay that way. They don't have to prove or tell anyone anything. Besides, they know we know they know.

Now I understand why Dip & Dot don't hang out with their fellow YTer's on a regular. The drama is enough to drive anyone insane.

i don't think he understands nearly the weight of what that would mean, and is just trying to cover his ass like "haha it's just a joke guys!!! punk'd!!!!!" and it's not working. i'm offended that he would even remotely paint their character in that light. i don't want another debate here or anything, but i really don't think they're the type. it's really bothersome and if this goes any further, will probably make things escalate more. nothing to get a fandom riled up like a good old queer-bating accusation. drama is honestly insane, what the hell.

[capybantsa]

I guess I'm in the minority here, but although Shane's personality is invasive, I really don't think he means any disrespect and I don't think there's anything that bad about what he's said so far.

Look at it this way: He's met them in person and it's pretty likely that he knows some juicy gossip about them from the youtuber community, but he's only ever mentioned vague scraps of evidence that anybody could find easily. He hasn't gone into much detail, and he hasn't even mentioned Voldy, the "holy grail" of Phan evidence.

Plus he practically worships those twins (at least in his branding). The fact that he directly contradicted them by playing like he was on the fence says a lot to me. If this wasn't a delicate subject in his mind I have no doubt that he'd be shouting "Shit, y'all heard it here first!". As it is, it's like he wants to talk about it, but he knows there's a line he shouldn't cross, he just doesn't quite know where that line is.

As for him saying he thinks it's a possibility that they're faking it, he's actually talked about this before about himself. Back when he first got with an agency one of the first things they did was try to pair him off with some random girl for attention. Fake relationships and rumors are extremely common in the entertainment industry, it's not out of the question to think somebody might be doing it on youtube. Even I've had those kind of moments in the past where I thought "are they real or are they just faking it for attention?"

You also have to consider that Tyler Oakley, somebody who's supposed to be their friend (or at least friendly with them), has said flat out that he ships Phan. Considering it's much more likely that Tyler knows something about the true status of their relationship than Shane does, should this not be considered much closer to "outing" than what Shane's said?

The twins shouldn't say anything about it though. If they're really psychic, then that's 100% outing, which isn't okay. Even if they're not really psychic, a lot of people think they are, so it's still outing-like behavior.

[flarequake]

True and believed or not, it's immature and close to bullying, if not outright, and as a post just said above, it's no surprise the boys steer clear of people into stuff like this. The moment I get any of the old bs I dealt with aged 8 that messed with my head still aged 25 I'm out and sad to feel how much it still hurts. It's not on.

[moaninglisa]

You also have to consider that Tyler Oakley, somebody who's supposed to be their friend (or at least friendly with them), has said flat out that he ships Phan. Considering it's much more likely that Tyler knows something about the true status of their relationship than Shane does, should this not be considered much closer to "outing" than what Shane's said?

I think it's unfair to use Tyler as an example when he said that almost 3 years ago. He clearly grew out of his old ways. This info may be useful (btw this is taken from the "D&P's relationship/sexuality according to other people" thread):

April-May 2016
Tyler Oakley goes on an accidental phan reblog spree on Tumblr, oops.

25th April 2016
The first one was when Tyler reblogged this post on Tumblr by mistake:


(screenshot from 25 April 2016)

He immediately deleted it and tweeted this:




1st May 2016
Another accidental reblog that he deleted, this time without comment:



23rd May 2016
Tyler reblogs this one AGAIN:


(screenshot from 23 May 2016)

This time he tweeted this:


(David = the CEO of Tumblr)

[fancybum]

You also have to consider that Tyler Oakley, somebody who's supposed to be their friend (or at least friendly with them), has said flat out that he ships Phan. Considering it's much more likely that Tyler knows something about the true status of their relationship than Shane does, should this not be considered much closer to "outing" than what Shane's said?

The twins shouldn't say anything about it though. If they're really psychic, then that's 100% outing, which isn't okay. Even if they're not really psychic, a lot of people think they are, so it's still outing-like behavior.

Do you not understand what shipping even means? It's not a statement to do with reality.

Saying "I ship these people lol" in 2013 vs. "Here are my thoughts on the private lives and sexual details of these 2 actual human beings living in the world with me who as far as I can tell don't choose to make any of these details public for reasons I can probably understand what with having dealt personally with CHOOSING TO come out about my own sexuality when I felt ready and oh yeah I also know all too well the stress of dealing with a public relationship and subsequent breakup (and I definitely said I'd keep future relationships private, thus indicating some level of understanding of why other people might also choose to do so, but lol, ad revenue is down have you heard?), but empathy doesn't bring in the cash so let's speculate while also trying to pretend I'm somehow being respectful about it. And I guess to me respect means throwing out the apparently more believable theory that they've entirely built their lives around a facade just to make money. Because never claiming to be more than friends is a sensible way to 'fuck with their audience', you know, that old method of pushing a narrative by... not attempting at all to push a narrative".

How the fuck does Oakley come off worse in any way and more importantly, what does he have to do with any part of this conversation? Hey, Onision is one of the worst people alive on the internet, so... think about that. I guess. It's not at all relevant to the current issue, but just think about it. Because if a person worse than Shane exists, if people have said worse things than he has said.. then his actions are justified? Is that what needs to be considered here?

[sugar]

I guess I'm in the minority here, but although Shane's personality is invasive, I really don't think he means any disrespect and I don't think there's anything that bad about what he's said so far.

really, really disagree. as a member of the lgbtq+ community shane should be a lot more sensitive when it comes to these topics, even more so since these are people he knows. if he had any respect at all this topic would never come up in one of his videos/podcasts/whatever. additionally, if he really thought they were playing up the relationship act for views, i'd expect him to be mad about that, as a real life, out, bi man. and without some concrete reasoning, that's a really awful assumption to be making. maybe that's just my own feelings speaking for me but i don't know, the entire situation rubs me the wrong way.

[offtopic]off topic of the current discussion but relevant to the current deppy whereabouts:

i was just reading a fic in which they had a conversation about how they couldn't go on each orher's family holidays because it would be too much of a confirmation of their relationship/if they did they'd have to pretend they weren't and pre-take photos to throw people off th track.

it was written two years ago and it's so interesting to me to see that in comparison with what's currently going on. i know it's just s fic and not their own thoughts but it made me feel even better about this current florida holiday and how comfortable/family-like they've been [/offtopic]

apologies for any typos, i'm on my phone and a bit tipsy if i'm honest

[Ashling Rae]

I definitely think Shane is doing everything he can to pretend he's being respectful. So he doesn't get hate. I think that's what the whole claim about him believing they do it to screw with viewers is about. I don't think he's thinking of it in terms of queer-baiting. I think for him, he thinks by claiming this, he's shallowly protecting their relationship and therefore is free to discuss it for his profit without it being a big deal. Thing is, obviously that is a big deal. Speaking of it at all is really shitty of him.

[captainspacecoat]

I don't really have anything profound to add to this conversation other than yes to everything fancybum said. I think Shane, Jess (? is that her name? can't remember and can't be assed checking) and the Psychic Twins were completely out of line in speculating about a potentially closeted couple on such a huge forum - as dnp's colleagues, that's so inappropriate and constitutes bullying as far as I'm concerned.

Not only do they reduce sexuality to stereotypes by commenting on the way dnp dress, but it's also just absolutely none of their business and the whole discussion boils down to them thinking dnp have an obligation to be open about their sexualities, which they flat out don't. Also it's so laughable that the Psychic Twins would ever think dnp would go on their channel regardless, if only because there's no way dnp would ever take their bullshit seriously. Props to Drew though for being the only person to show any dissent to the conversation, I've always had a lot of respect for him.

I also don't think it's fair to compare this to Tyler Oakley in 2013, as Tyler's proven himself to be very sensitive toward closeted people and their sexualities. 2013 was a very different time, and Tyler's joke was lighthearted and unscripted. It was on a much smaller scale - on stage at SITC - and didn't involve him speculating the motivations behind dnp's relationship or seriously attempting to label them as one sexuality/relationship status or another. Even still, I don't think he would make that joke again now, and he seems to display a lot more empathy regarding people's relationship to their sexualities than Shane does.

If Shane had been asked whether he shipped phan and answered something like "who doesn't?" I wouldn't actually have much of an issue with that other than it being a bit tasteless maybe. This whole situation just seems a lot more sinister, as it makes a whole lot of shitty assumptions about dnp's sexualities and relationship and ignores the complexities surrounding the situation. Also the fact that Dan and Phil weren't present to defend themselves makes it feel even more like bullying them, essentially backing them into a corner and invasively speculating about something that is very personal

[capybantsa]

Oh right, I forgot westerners hate different opinions. Still weird to me.


Anyway, I found what Tyler said to be... unpalatable, because he was either shipping his friends in a sexual way, or he was borderline outing them. Either way it's gross to me. It's good if he's changed though, and since it's important to judge people primarily based on their current behavior, I won't hold past-Tyler against now-Tyler.


Re: The assumption that Shane should "know better" since he's bi... Isn't "better" subjective? He's abiding by the golden rule, treating others like he would expect to be treated himself. He applies the same standards to himself that he does to other people he talks about. If you watch the conspiracy theory video with D&P, in the same video he actually goes over a theory that he himself is straight and that his relationship with his boyfriend is a contract for publicity. He even gives a few valid bits of evidence for why it could be true (much more valid than the evidence he gave in favor of D&P being together). He even presented the theory to his boyfriend.

I think if D&P contacted him directly and asked him to stop then he would. You're free to disagree, but that's my opinion. I think he would. He's not a psycho like Onision, he's just a normal attention whore who has boundary issues and gets encouraged a little too much to be... how he is.


[offtopic]Tfw people only talk to you when they disagree with you [/offtopic]

[captainspacecoat]

Oh right, I forgot westerners hate different opinions. Still weird to me.

People are entitled to disagree with said 'different opinions' though. This is a forum, it's a back-and-forth conversation, not just a dumping ground for people to state their opinions with no consequences. Personally, I believe that what Shane said was not just his "opinion", harmless and existing in a vacuum. I believe what he (and Jess, and the Psychic Twins) said was harmful and inappropriate in that it speculated about something very personal that had nothing to do with them, based itself on offensive stereotypes about sexuality, backed dnp into a corner re: publicly talking about their sexuality/relationship, made presumptions about not only their sexuality/relationship but also their apparent manipulation of their audience, and was predicated on the notion that dnp should come out if they are in fact not straight and/or in a relationship.

In my opinion, that is bullying. You don't have to agree, but you also have to understand that people are probably going to engage with your posts on this forum whether they agree with you or not.

[Grey]

[offtopic]Tfw people only talk to you when they disagree with you [/offtopic]

This is a dilemma I have on forums. I usually only feel like commenting when I disagree which maybe makes it seem like all I ever do is disagree with everything. Actually I agree with a lot of things but don't feel like commenting "I agree with this!" or repeating the same thing other people said all the time.

[offtopic]Super off topic: what is the snow emoji ( ) supposed to be? I see he* looks kind of sad and it's snowing on him. But why? What does it mean?[/offtopic]

[alittledizzy]

[offtopic]Tfw people only talk to you when they disagree with you [/offtopic]

This is a dilemma I have on forums. I usually only feel like commenting when I disagree which maybe makes it seem like all I ever do is disagree with everything. Actually I agree with a lot of things but don't feel like commenting "I agree with this!" or repeating the same thing other people said all the time.

[offtopic]Super off topic: what is the snow emoji ( ) supposed to be? I see he* looks kind of sad and it's snowing on him. But why? What does it mean?[/offtopic]

I think that's a pretty common dilemma on forums, only being motivated to reply if you have a difference of opinion. I often want to break up what can feel like negativity so I find it helpful to reply to multiple people in one post. That way if there are some things I agree with I can kind of slip an encouraging "yes, totally agree!" in and let people know that someone is reading and appreciating their contribution, but then also include other replies with perhaps more original thoughts in them as well so it's not boring for everyone but me and the original poster.

[jesuisunèléve]

Oh right, I forgot westerners hate different opinions. Still weird to me.


Anyway, I found what Tyler said to be... unpalatable, because he was either shipping his friends in a sexual way, or he was borderline outing them. Either way it's gross to me. It's good if he's changed though, and since it's important to judge people primarily based on their current behavior, I won't hold past-Tyler against now-Tyler.


Re: The assumption that Shane should "know better" since he's bi... Isn't "better" subjective? He's abiding by the golden rule, treating others like he would expect to be treated himself. He applies the same standards to himself that he does to other people he talks about. If you watch the conspiracy theory video with D&P, in the same video he actually goes over a theory that he himself is straight and that his relationship with his boyfriend is a contract for publicity. He even gives a few valid bits of evidence for why it could be true (much more valid than the evidence he gave in favor of D&P being together). He even presented the theory to his boyfriend.

I think if D&P contacted him directly and asked him to stop then he would. You're free to disagree, but that's my opinion. I think he would. He's not a psycho like Onision, he's just a normal attention whore who has boundary issues and gets encouraged a little too much to be... how he is.


[offtopic]Tfw people only talk to you when they disagree with you [/offtopic]

Oh right, I forgot westerners hate different opinions. Still weird to me.

As a westerner and a stuck-up English Literature academic , I found this to be hilarious, true, and oh so sad all at the same time. One of the neat things about forums is the ability to discuss with people all over the world. I'll admit, I'm a Yank through and through, but academics has broadened my world-view. I have never been off of American soil, and my idea of an "adventure" is going to the opposite coast because that's a culture shock in its own.

That being said, yes, we westerns do have different ideas as to what is and is not appropriate, but I think what we all are searching for is respect from the Shanes and the Tylers and anyone else who is "out" to the ones who are not. Some have an expectation of representation, so if Dip and Dot are in a relationship, there's an expectation that they come out and represent the LGBTQ et al. It's the same for various cultures and races, for example, being black means you have to represent Black Culture and the All Lives Matters movement. Some people want to represent, some don't.

Regardless, in my mind Shane is, as someone so eloquently put it upthread...oh yes,

fancybum: "I ship these people lol" in 2013 vs. "Here are my thoughts on the private lives and sexual details of these 2 actual human beings living in the world with me who as far as I can tell don't choose to make any of these details public for reasons I can probably understand what with having dealt personally with CHOOSING TO come out about my own sexuality when I felt ready and oh yeah I also know all too well the stress of dealing with a public relationship and subsequent breakup (and I definitely said I'd keep future relationships private, thus indicating some level of understanding of why other people might also choose to do so, but lol, ad revenue is down have you heard?), but empathy doesn't bring in the cash so let's speculate while also trying to pretend I'm somehow being respectful about it."

THIS. ALL OF THIS.

I admit, I immediately think when a YTer does what Shane does to Dip and Dot they are doing it for the clicks, which doesn't sit well with me at all. What, their own content isn't creating revenue so they have to resort to speculation? And speculation does not equal respect.

[papierklemmen]

the thing is, no one is checking for shane's opinion on dan & phil except for dan & phil's fans. and dan & phil's fans already everything, and more than the stuff that he brought up. he may be spewing whatever and whenever, as long as he keeps saying "i think the fans made it up and it's not true and anyway idk" it's not newsworthy. who's gonna listen to it and report it, WSJ? no1curr, basically.

so it may be disrespectful, shitty, w/e, at the end of the day it's really not such a big deal. sometimes people seem to forget that ouside the phandom, even with all the comfortable easy-going 2017 shenanigans and "droppings hints" or whatever, dan and phil are still known as "those guys who are being shipped by their batshit fanbase".

[VengefulBlue]

most of what i think has already been said, but i do have this one thing to add:

He's abiding by the golden rule, treating others like he would expect to be treated himself.

this is true, and is also why he probably doesn't think of it as wrong. but that doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't wrong. the golden rule only works when everyone involved has similar expectations. even if shane truly thinks that deppy would be alright with the theorizing, that doesn't erase the unfairness if they aren't okay with it. which they probably aren't, but who knows? maybe they don't care.
if i were in shane's shoes, i'd check with any fellow yt-ers before i theorized about them, just to avoid this kind of drama. but i'm not him, so what do i know. it's not like deppy are losing sleep over this. i probably care about as much as they do: mild annoyance at most

[lurker]

As for him saying he thinks it's a possibility that they're faking it, he's actually talked about this before about himself. Back when he first got with an agency one of the first things they did was try to pair him off with some random girl for attention. Fake relationships and rumors are extremely common in the entertainment industry, it's not out of the question to think somebody might be doing it on youtube.

I definitely think Shane is doing everything he can to pretend he's being respectful. So he doesn't get hate. I think that's what the whole claim about him believing they do it to screw with viewers is about. I don't think he's thinking of it in terms of queer-baiting. I think for him, he thinks by claiming this, he's shallowly protecting their relationship and therefore is free to discuss it for his profit without it being a big deal.

i've thought about this, too, and i do agree that this might be shane's reasoning. also i enjoyed reading your posts because i hadn't thought about it this way and it was interesting. however i wanted to add that i think the reason why it doesn't work is that framing his speculation this way essentially backs them into a corner -- not only is something private being publicly discussed by a colleague, but they are also accused of something. now i don't expect them to react to the whole thing as well, but the thing is, if they did, hypothetically, they'd automatically be in a defensive position. i think that's what bugs me the most about it and it's probably also why people here have referred to it as bullying. i personally can't give him kudos for throwing the baiting discussion in there, whatever his intent was, because he's profiting off people discussing it, and as i said before, even if deppy weren't bothered by it at all, i think it still sends a gross and harmful message to shane's own audience.

i agree with fancybum's post, too, thanks

[malday]

the thing is, no one is checking for shane's opinion on dan & phil except for dan & phil's fans. and dan & phil's fans already everything, and more than the stuff that he brought up. he may be spewing whatever and whenever, as long as he keeps saying "i think the fans made it up and it's not true and anyway idk" it's not newsworthy. who's gonna listen to it and report it, WSJ? no1curr, basically.

so it may be disrespectful, shitty, w/e, at the end of the day it's really not such a big deal. sometimes people seem to forget that ouside the phandom, even with all the comfortable easy-going 2017 shenanigans and "droppings hints" or whatever, dan and phil are still known as "those guys who are being shipped by their batshit fanbase".

With his conspiracy video he shaped the opinion of his viewers that don't watch d&p too, who probably now think they are pretending to be gay for views.
And he probably stirred the curiosity of some to go searching for evidence.
He painted all the d&p fans as nutters too with the shit evidence he showed not to mention there were some phans arguing in the comments bringing up voldy and other things.

Oh right, I forgot westerners hate different opinions. Still weird to me.

that's a sweeping generalization to make about a whole bunch of people just because they disagree with you on some things.

[Ashling Rae]

capybantsa I hope you don't think anyone here was attacking you just because you have a different opinion, because to me it didn't seem that was anyone's intention. I also hope you see the hypocrisy in accusing people of not liking different opinions just because no one speaking here happens to agree with you. That kind of sounds like, to me, you want the rest of us to be quiet about our opinions.

The reason I don't find what Tyler said nearly as offensive as Shane's repeated theory discussion is because Tyler's question was specifically about shipping. As a refresher (since shipping is often tied to other behaviors that aren't acceptable, but they are not one and the same) shipping is just liking the idea of people being in a romantic relationship. I don't want to erase the fact that shipping public figures can be different, but this is something I think we all do on some level. Before I was an internet person, I was shipping my friends. And my friends shipped me with people. Hell, my best friend's family still ships me with one of her family members...

to a point where after my most recent break-up, her mom apparently said "So, she can marry XXXX now, right?" Spoiler because it's irrelevant but I find this hilarious and love to talk about it.

I don't think there is much harm in essentially saying "I think they'd make a cute couple." And yeah, he did add on after that, kind of talking about the idea of them being sexual, but I think given Tyler's branding, and how he discussed it, it was drawing attention away from any actual evidence of their relationship and putting it more in the realm of fantasy. What Shane did is discuss the actual possibility, invite people who challenge D&P to come out- not on their terms, and then try to cover it all up by accusing them of queer-baiting, leaving them very few options on how to address the situation should they choose to. (Btw lurker I definitely agree that this is not okay. I was not trying to excuse Shane in any way by stating what I think to be his intention. In fact, I am all the more annoyed by it because he seems to think doing this absolves him of all responsibility, and it doesn't.)

[lurker]

(Ashling Rae, i understand what you mean and agree with what you said, i only wanted to add to it in my above post or start from what you said to spell out more clearly what personally bothers me about it)

[onetruetrash]

Oh right, I forgot westerners hate different opinions. Still weird to me.

People had been saying that they have an opinion that is opposite of yours for a while now, of course they're not gonna just suddenly agree with you. I don't know what you were expecting tbh.

[snokoplasmic]

[offtopic]hey! sorry to divert attention from this (in my opinion) extremely interesting conversation with such an odd request, but does anyone know when all the Speed references started? rewatched the 2nd bomb disposal video this morning and it caught my attention in the beginning when dan goes "i KNEW you were gonna make another fucking Speed reference!" i feel like i remember that it was a phil liveshow where he first mentioned watching the movie, and i think they made references in like at least two other gaming vids, but for the life of me i can't remember any specifics[/offtopic]

[gerrymandering]

shane dawson and the psychic scam artists invading people's privacy for attention? i'm shocked