Dan & Phil Part 52: And They Were Roommates

[iihappydaysii]

Is this their way of saying there won't be gaming vids for awhile? While the most straightforward answer is that yes this is a picture from today and dan did spill water on the PC today. I have trust issues so lol maybe they're still in the middle of that move and they're trying to buy themselves some time. At this point idk what it would take to disprove the second move to me so probably just don't listen to me. Everything is fine, but it seems fishy.

[LtrllySusan]

Is this their way of saying there won't be gaming vids for awhile? While the most straightforward answer is that yes this is a picture from today and dan did spill water on the PC today. I have trust issues so lol maybe they're still in the middle of that move and they're trying to buy themselves some time. At this point idk what it would take to disprove the second move to me so probably just don't listen to me. Everything is fine, but it seems fishy.

It's not their gaming laptop, but the one in the living room (?) next to Dan's piano. I am sure they can edit on both and just prefer to do it on that one so they don't sit in the gaming room alone for hours. When he meant he was about to game it was probably just a private session.

[Birdie]

I get that most people are probably okay with sharing culture and stuff but I still think there’s a bit of a bitter taste to it when white people just take something from a different culture for aesthetic reasons. It just ties in with centuries of oppression and exploitation so it doesn’t sit well with me. I do think this can apply to language too. Learning Japanese for instance is not a problem because yes, that's appreciation and you're actually making an effort to learn something about a culture and educate yourself on it. But getting a tattoo in Japanese without knowing the language or the meaning or having any ties to the culture is weird imo because the reason is mostly that "it just looks cooler" and that's othering. Basically I think being interested in a different culture, wanting to get to know it better and putting effort into learning about it is appreciation whilst just using something from another culture, especially if it's something meaningful or even sacred, just because "it looks so cool" is appropriation.

That being said, I think that there is a difference between appreciation and appropriation, and they're kind of toeing the line a bit

I agree with this a lot. It’s not that bad but it’s also not peachy, at least not for me. I’m not Japanese so I don’t think my opinion on this matters anyway but yeah. And yes, I’m also glad we’re commenting on Dan’s monolid comments again because it kind of blew over when I brought it up yesterday but it really affected me. I don’t really have monolid eyes but I’m part Asian and people keep making fun of Asian eyes left and right and I've been subjected to that before. I know Dan probably didn’t mean to insinuate what he insinuated but all the “appreciation” for Japan and then calling monolid eyes sneaky… nah, mate. Even if it was accidental, I feel like we’re excusing a lot of “accidental” insensitivities with these guys lately, I don’t know.

Also, on a side note: Someone brought up that part of Markiplier’s humour playing Dream Daddy was the fact that he’s straight and therefore it’s funny he’s dating guys in the game but I watched his play through last night and I didn’t get that impression at all. He only brought it up right in the beginning and then it wasn't even an issue anymore. I loved his play through a lot and he didn’t no-homo once, he genuinely seemed to enjoy the game, he was roaring at the jokes that deppy rushed through and he seemed very comfortable, even with the sexual stuff (as well he should be, no one needs to be uncomfortable about lgbtq matters). He didn’t do any voices either but he concentrated on reading the dialogue properly and it was so much fun watching him having so much fun with the game.

I agree that it’s probably easier for Mark to go along with the game’s humour because everyone knows he’s straight and his fans won't make assumptions about his sexuality based on his enjoyment of the game but I still wish deppy had shown half of his enthusiasm for the game (this is not meant as criticism, it's just something I would have liked to see). Mark’s play through is so funny and wholesome, I prefer it to deppy’s video and I usually don’t even watch Mark.

[ijustwantdeath]

In japan english is aesthetic, while in west japanese is, it goes both ways and there’s nothing wrong with it.

this coming from a poc, I don't really want to get into the whole history of colonization and how ppl in japan and pretty much any other country that isn't pre-dominantly english speaking, have been forced to learn english for employment, education, immigration etc etc but no white person has ever been forced to learn Japanese? so it isn't the same as having french on a shirt?

And this isn't even a matter of ethics tbh, because not only do they appropriate the language by putting it on their merch, they make thousands of dollars of profit by commercializing it. and it definitely isn't appreciation, because dnp's knowledge of japanese culture doesn't extend further than stupid pop culture stereotypes, throwing around words like "kawaii" and "senpai" and calling themselves asian.

if their only excuse for making the words japanese after only a one-week trip to japan two frickin years ago, is that they want to make it ambiguous and not obvious that it's dnp merch
1) why not just write dan and phil in smaller font in english
2)just come up with a logo or something since they have an entire merch store of products and make enough big bucks to try and not be offensive?
3)make it similish since it related more to Dil like the user above me said^
4) literally just write the letters "D&P", how much more ambiguous can it get?

this is in no way to state that dnp are racist or problematic or anything harsh like that, i'm sure they have good intentions and are good people. but this does not make them devoid of flaws and it sure as fuck doesn't mean we can't point them out.

[Catallena]

Tumblr and social justice are seriously my pet peeve. I’m all for standing up for justice, but a lot of the time that is not what goes on in tumblr. It’s a witch hunt, labeling people as problematic because they made one mistake and then never letting it go. Even if said people have always made sure to not say anything offensive and insensitive. I’m talking in general here, based on things I’ve seen before in tumblr, not particulary about Dan and Phil.

Imo using japanese in merch is not cultural appropriation. Using other languages in clothing items etc. happens constantly all over the world and it does zero harm to anyone despite someone always profiting from it. In japan english is aesthetic, while in west japanese is, it goes both ways and there’s nothing wrong with it. French is also one of the most common languages that is used in clothing in countries that don’t speak french. Using another language is not the same as taking something sacred, while language is always a part of certain culture, no one can actually own it. No one has the right to decide who can use it and who can’t. Languages are something anyone can learn and use if they want to and learning another language is only a positive thing.

Personally I’m not really a fan of katakana in merch, but that’s more about how I don’t really want to draw any attention to myself and if I were to use their merch with katakana, there’s a high chance that someone would ask what it means and I don’t really like explaining things like that. So I’ll rather stick with using only things people around me can understand, to avoid feeling uncomfortable.

Sis, Tumblr got plenty of uneducated people talking out of their asses on the subject of social justice but this ain't it. People in the phandom who are of Japanese heritage have expressed discomfort with Dan and Phil using their language on merch. Our own jaej has spoken out about D&P picking and choosing the cute and aesthetically pleasing things from Japanese culture to use for their own gain various times in ways far more eloquently than I ever could and I'd recommend looking up their posts to educate yourself on that point of view. Either way, D&P can't speak, write or read Japanese and don't seem to intend on learning the language ever beyond whatever words they pick up from anime. They have nothing to do with the country beyond one holiday and their interest in pop culture. Dan and Phil are majorly capitalizing on using a part of a culture that is not theirs and it's not cute. The appreciation excuse can fly when you reblog a picture of a word written in kanji against a pastel background or whatever, not when you make cold hard cash out of it. Do I think D&P are racist? Nah. But the way they seem to view Japan does border on orientalism and the way they make merch ~inspired~ by it does prove that and deserves to be called out.

[MythicalPinkTrashCan]

Is this their way of saying there won't be gaming vids for awhile? While the most straightforward answer is that yes this is a picture from today and dan did spill water on the PC today. I have trust issues so lol maybe they're still in the middle of that move and they're trying to buy themselves some time. At this point idk what it would take to disprove the second move to me so probably just don't listen to me. Everything is fine, but it seems fishy.

It's not their gaming laptop, but the one in the living room (?) next to Dan's piano. I am sure they can edit on both and just prefer to do it on that one so they don't sit in the gaming room alone for hours. When he meant he was about to game it was probably just a private session.

In Phil's (fake) sleepless night video, he shows an alienware computer and says Dil lives in it. The one he shows in the pic is his "personal" computer, right?

[SneakyLizard]

Also I don't know if Martyn and Cornelia are behind the scenes somewhere, but they haven't been on the merch stand. Let's hope Dan's PC is okay, that's a lot of water to spill in it and not fry something.

Cornelia tweeted that they were not there, but would be on Sunday.

[sparkle]

I think the appropriation argument is extremely essentialist tbh. It assumes that Japanese language and the iconography used can only be used by Japanese people because they are the essence of Japanese culture and that does sit a bit oddly with me. Culture is meant to be shared. I don't think its inherently wrong for them to use it because it does represent something to them, they have actually been there and are engaged with Japanese pop culture. (nothing wrong with pop culture unless you're Theodore Adorno - ah Sociology jokes)

I have a feeling the Japan merch means a little bit more to deppy than 'cute aesthetic'. I think the trip had meaning beyond what we think it does - and this is the closest we'll get to them whacking out the holiday photos.

However, saying that, I do think it would have been cool if some of the profits for the merch went to some Japanese charities. Especially after two years, like that would actually be really cool. (Someone get me onto the phone with IRL immediately) I think that would help to stop some of the criticism because then it would actually be benefiting the country of origin rather than be seeing to take from it?


also @Dan spilling a pint of water on his PC. WHY NO WEDDING RING WHEN TODAY WAS OBVIOUSLY YOUR WEDDING DAY

[nephilimcat]

Honestly, while these discussions can sometimes be a bit annoying, especially when they are repetitive (*cough* queerbaiting discussion *cough*), I have to say that as a white person, I am learning a lot from them (and it might be the same for some straight people with the queerbaiting discussions, in that case, keep them coming). I think I'm starting to understand the difference between cultural appropriation and appreciation a bit more. Especially katka's latest post was very informative

I honestly never understood people wearing another language for aesthetic reasons but that's just me and to each their own. I think context is always important. If I went to Japan and bought a shirt there and it had Japanese writing on it, that would be okay because I bought it in the country, wouldn't it? As it would be if I was studying Japanese and learning more about the culture, right? There also seems to be a difference between just wearing and selling a shirt with Japanese writing on it. I hope I understood everything correctly.

After all this, I came to the conclusion that I don't think it's okay that Deppy sell Japan merch. Knowing them, they won't say anything about it or even stop selling their Japanese merch. I assume they might not even realise that it's problematic because neither did I at first. I am certain they don't mean any harm by it but that doesn't mean they should do it. What I hope is that they refrain from selling Japanese merch in the future and only use English or a fictional language. I really like the idea of having simlish on their stuff or them designing their own label, like some other YouTubers did. It would make much more sense and wouldn't offend people. Well, maybe there would still be some people offended because no matter what you do, there will always be someone who complains. But it won't have substance and be a larger group and that's what's important.

[alittledizzy]

I have a feeling the Japan merch means a little bit more to deppy than 'cute aesthetic'.

Oh, definitely - I think it also means enough cash for the down payment on a new house. Or at least three... maybe four? new shirts for Dan.

[autumnhearth]

Someone on Tumblr posted a nice photoshopped version of the backpacks with d&p embroidered on them. They looked classy, though I think small cat whiskers embroidered in white would look great on both bags.

Sigh. I'm about ready to admit defeat on the moving asap theory. Those shelves threw me for a loop. It looks like they put all the same stuff back on them, not more aesthetic things... Whatever
Forgive me, I'm just grumpy from watching too many 2012 Phil liveshows in a row.

[sparkle]

I have a feeling the Japan merch means a little bit more to deppy than 'cute aesthetic'.

Oh, definitely - I think it also means enough cash for the down payment on a new house. Or at least three... maybe four? new shirts for Dan.

No, with the amount that Dan spends on single items of clothing he'd only be able to afford half a sleeve

[human]

Oh, good point about the SITC awards, human. I totally forgot and left before any of that. I'm not sure if they're tonight or tomorrow. While I'm spilling beans, TomSka mentioned his recent sketch with Dan and how it was originally going to be him as a barman giving Dan's character advice on approaching women. Also I don't know if Martyn and Cornelia are behind the scenes somewhere, but they haven't been on the merch stand. Let's hope Dan's PC is okay, that's a lot of water to spill in it and not fry something.

Interesting. There was a lot of stress in Tom's last week vlog about getting the scripts ready to shoot, so I'm enjoying the possibility that the original idea was disputed because perhaps Dan didn't want to involved in a predominantly het comedic storyline so his role was re-written. Pleaseeeee.

[thephandommenace]

Forgive me, I'm just grumpy from watching too many 2012 Phil liveshows in a row.

Ahhh why would you do that to yourself
I'm also quite eh on the idea of them moving right this moment but I'm holding out that they will move within the next few months!

Someone on Tumblr posted a nice photoshopped version of the backpacks with d&p embroidered on them. They looked classy, though I think small cat whiskers embroidered in white would look great on both bags.

That does sound nice. I support the idea of them creating their own logo or simply just the letters D&P or even Simlish (though maybe there'd be a problem with getting the rights from EA to use it on their merch).

I was quite towards Deppy at the beginning with the Japan merch and I still am but I feel more and more, idk, resigned. I see so many shirts with Japanese characters on them when I walk into Primark or Topman. People continue to get tattoos of Japanese/Chinese characters every day without having a clue what they mean. My brother owns a shirt that says OSAKA on it from Primark even though he's never been to Osaka, though maybe that's in a different frame as the letters were in English. It may be orientalist but idk if the people selling them will ever stop because of callouts of cultural appropriation because the line is so blurry and people just dgaf. Idek if I'm really doing any good deciding not to buy such things based on not wanting to support cultural appropriation when a lot of the time unbeknownst to me my clothes were probably made in Bangladeshi sweatshops. If Deppy didn't sell Japan merch and then make dubious comments about monolids I'd be a whole lot happier though.

[Susanisnotafish]

rip

The thing I find most intriguing about this tweet is the reference to him having a "long day". What was going on today? When will we find out?

[randomthoughts]

Personally, I think the Japan words on the backpacks are not a big deal. Maybe simlish or just D and P, or just cat whiskers would be better. I grew up in china, and some of the clothing had english words on them, and people bought them because they thought it was 'cool'. I think this is the same, it's a different language, so it looks 'cool' and fits a 'aesthetic'. Using different languages on stuff is very common. I don't think Dan and Phil were trying to be offensive at all. As an half- chinese person myself, sometimes I see people with tattoos or clothing with chinese words on them, and I either just laugh, because the words are so badly translated, or I just ignore it. That's just my opinion though, maybe to some japanese people this is disrespectful, and if they feel that way, I understand completely.

The monolids comment was totally not okay though, even if I don't think it was on purpose.

[quercussp]

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[alittledizzy]

Aw, I'm really glad they're acknowledging how it came across and editing it.

[Philena]

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That's a fucking relief...

[confusedpanda]

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I'm actually really proud that they actually did own up to they're own mistake on this! That's something I was worried they weren't going to do, specially like I said before with past controversies. Though, couldn't they just remove it themselves in basic YouTube editing or no?

[thephandommenace]

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I'm actually really proud that they actually did own up to they're own mistake on this! That's something I was worried they weren't going to do, specially like I said before with past controversies. Though, couldn't they just remove it themselves in basic YouTube editing or no?

I'm so glad!!!
Edit: I made the terrible mistake of reading the Twitter replies to @updatedphan's tweet of this. Never again.

Yeah I know you can trim bits off the start and end of a video that's already been uploaded and seen by subscribers but I don't know about cutting out a section in the middle, surely it's possible though? Maybe because of the way it was edited it doesn't make such a smooth transition by simply trimming that part out and so they need other editing tools (doubtful though)... or if the uploader is verified they need do ask permission before editing a video that's already been seen by over 1mil people?

[tooqueerforyou]

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I'm actually really proud that they actually did own up to they're own mistake on this! That's something I was worried they weren't going to do, specially like I said before with past controversies. Though, couldn't they just remove it themselves in basic YouTube editing or no?

I'm so glad!!!
Yeah I know you can trim bits off the start and end of a video that's already been uploaded and seen by subscribers but I don't know about cutting out a section in the middle, surely it's possible though? Maybe because of the way it was edited it doesn't make such a smooth transition by simply trimming that part out and so they need other editing tools (doubtful though)... or if the uploader is verified they need do ask permission before editing a video that's already been seen by over 1mil people?

THANK GOD

This is probably a lot easier to fix and a lot more controversial than the issues with their merch, so I'm just glad they did fix it. Good job, boys.

[fancybum]

Aw they actually acknowledged a Thing, accepted responsibility, and took steps to right the situation without just quietly fixing it and brushing it off or ignoring it completely. Cool cool. Character development

[tooqueerforyou]

Aw they actually acknowledged a Thing, accepted responsibility, and took steps to right the situation without just quietly fixing it and brushing it off or ignoring it completely. Cool cool. Character development

I know! Our boys are growing up I'm so proud of my sons that are 7 and 11 years older then me

[pastelspectre]

glad that deppy acknowledged it in a mature way! progress