aaa i'm so glad they addressed it!! i thought they'd just ignore the issue or not /completely/ apologise if you get me998274 wrote:[tumblr] <div class="tumblr-post" data-href="https://embed.tumblr.com/embed/post/24p ... 3845681752" data-did="da39a3ee5e6b4b0d3255bfef95601890afd80709">[/tumblr]
i am glad they fixed that part - sometimes i do feel bad for them though bc so many crappier people get away with so much more. they really do try to be careful and aware and good citizens of the world, but they also come under fire a lot. i'm not saying they don't mess up, but idk it just feels like other people mess up more lol. i can imagine they get really upset when things like this happen. it's part of having such a rabid fan base though - we see allfancybum wrote:Aw they actually acknowledged a Thing, accepted responsibility, and took steps to right the situation without just quietly fixing it and brushing it off or ignoring it completely. Cool cool. Character development
sometimes i wonder how limited they must feel by their fans - i feel like this could have been less a fear of heteronormativity and more a fear of the backlash by fans of dan being in a skit acting single/being interested in women?flarequake wrote: While I'm spilling beans, TomSka mentioned his recent sketch with Dan and how it was originally going to be him as a barman giving Dan's character advice on approaching women.
I'm sure that may have played a part in it, but personally I would also have felt a bit uncomfortable portraying a sexuality that wasn't true to my own. That's just me, and I'm not trying to project onto Dan or anything, but I think it's fair to suppose that as well as being wary of fan reactions he may also have felt a bit disingenuous playing a (presumed) straight man. He may also have not wanted to deal with backlash that may have come from playing a character perceived to be misogynistic in some way, which is understandable.Vanderlyle wrote: sometimes i wonder how limited they must feel by their fans - i feel like this could have been less a fear of heteronormativity and more a fear of the backlash by fans of dan being in a skit acting single/being interested in women?
It's fine, everyone fucks up here and there, the important thing is being able to hear and engage with criticism/consequences. The other people you're referring to who fuck up more and get away with it-- do they care? Or are they just rolling their eyes at sjw's instead of thinking about how their own behaviour might be perceived as shitty even if that's not what they intended? No point feeling bad for D&P acknowledging mistakes- it's a good thing! Whether they intended it or not, their comment put a lot of people off at best (and hurt them at worst), so it's completely reasonable to correct that if they care about not hurting people's feelings. If other people don't care about hurting people's feelings and can get away with it, well they can enjoy their lives like that for as long as that works for them I guess, what can you do. Some people just revel in being shitty humans.Vanderlyle wrote:i am glad they fixed that part - sometimes i do feel bad for them though bc so many crappier people get away with so much more. they really do try to be careful and aware and good citizens of the world, but they also come under fire a lot. i'm not saying they don't mess up, but idk it just feels like other people mess up more lol. i can imagine they get really upset when things like this happen. it's part of having such a rabid fan base though - we see allfancybum wrote:Aw they actually acknowledged a Thing, accepted responsibility, and took steps to right the situation without just quietly fixing it and brushing it off or ignoring it completely. Cool cool. Character development
that brings up another point i meant to mention - i wonder if they caught the mistake or if their management pointed it out? i always wonder what they see themselves vs. what their pr managers see. i imagine they have someone who's sole job is just gaging the current "temperature" of the fans/ how they are being perceived at anytime. it was a pretty glaring error thofancybum wrote:It's fine, everyone fucks up here and there, the important thing is being able to hear and engage with criticism/consequences. The other people you're referring to who fuck up more and get away with it-- do they care? Or are they just rolling their eyes at sjw's instead of thinking about how their own behaviour might be perceived as shitty even if that's not what they intended? No point feeling bad for D&P acknowledging mistakes- it's a good thing! Whether they intended it or not, their comment put a lot of people off at best (and hurt them at worst), so it's completely reasonable to correct that if they care about not hurting people's feelings. If other people don't care about hurting people's feelings and can get away with it, well they can enjoy their lives like that for as long as that works for them I guess, what can you do. Some people just revel in being shitty humans.Vanderlyle wrote:i am glad they fixed that part - sometimes i do feel bad for them though bc so many crappier people get away with so much more. they really do try to be careful and aware and good citizens of the world, but they also come under fire a lot. i'm not saying they don't mess up, but idk it just feels like other people mess up more lol. i can imagine they get really upset when things like this happen. it's part of having such a rabid fan base though - we see allfancybum wrote:Aw they actually acknowledged a Thing, accepted responsibility, and took steps to right the situation without just quietly fixing it and brushing it off or ignoring it completely. Cool cool. Character development
(But now I'm curious how they think about their Japan merch with regard to the criticism, because they're obviously aware of it. So choosing not to comment is a comment in and of itself that they don't think it's an issue hmm )
yea - true, i see your point but also since it was a skit he would be "in character" which is different - however, the lines are grey in YT skits more so than in short films or something. tom's skits tend to find characters in a moment rather than developing characterscaptainspacecoat wrote:I'm sure that may have played a part in it, but personally I would also have felt a bit uncomfortable portraying a sexuality that wasn't true to my own. That's just me, and I'm not trying to project onto Dan or anything, but I think it's fair to suppose that as well as being wary of fan reactions he may also have felt a bit disingenuous playing a (presumed) straight man. He may also have not wanted to deal with backlash that may have come from playing a character perceived to be misogynistic in some way, which is understandable.Vanderlyle wrote: sometimes i wonder how limited they must feel by their fans - i feel like this could have been less a fear of heteronormativity and more a fear of the backlash by fans of dan being in a skit acting single/being interested in women?
Oh my god the thought of that makes me so uncomfortable for everybody involved. The things they'd have to read.. my soul is cringing. If there was a way to pull down some blackout curtains over a website, man, leave us and our tinfoil in peaceVanderlyle wrote: that brings up another point i meant to mention - i wonder if they caught the mistake or if their management pointed it out? i always wonder what they see themselves vs. what their pr managers see. i imagine they have someone who's sole job is just gaging the current "temperature" of the fans/ how they are being perceived at anytime. it was a pretty glaring error tho
That's basically all it was though, they didn't exactly post a crying apology video over it- they just explained what happened, apologized a normal amount, and said that part will be removed. Seems reasonable and straightforward to me?capybantsa wrote:Maybe I'm just too easy going, but I don't see why it's necessary to apologize so seriously for such a small mistake that anybody could make. Of course it would be different if they were making a racist joke, but this was really just an accident
Accidents are mistakes that people make. If you were talking to someone and accidentally said something that hurt them, even slightly and they frowned, would you not say sorry? That's the case here. A simple sorry can go a long way if someone is hurt, which many were.capybantsa wrote:Maybe I'm just too easy going, but I don't see why it's necessary to apologize so seriously for such a small mistake that anybody could make. Of course it would be different if they were making a racist joke, but this was really just an accident
I get that, but I'd like to refer to Thomas Sanders in this instance-He himself identifies as gay, but in his vines/short videos he had himself flirting/dating/etc people of all genders, leading people to think that he was bi or pansexual, which was not the case. Who you appear to show interest in, even in a sketch where you are playing a character, people will pin onto you as your identity, even if it's not accurate. It is absolutely different because it's a character, as an actor I KNOW this, but people will still think otherwise. It's the same reason many actors, after coming out as gay, were not cast as straight men/men that showed interest in women. It's a general stigma in the entertainment industry-that who you play in terms of sexuality is who you are. (There's also the whole thing where straight cis men are literally given awards for playing gay/trans while actual gay/trans actors struggle to find work but that's another rant for another thread)Vanderlyle wrote:fancybum wrote:Vanderlyle wrote:fancybum wrote: yea - true, i see your point but also since it was a skit he would be "in character" which is different - however, the lines are grey in YT skits more so than in short films or something. tom's skits tend to find characters in a moment rather than developing characters
[offtopic]Sorry, I followed the thing with Felix and he was actually completely unfairly targeted by the media. Here's a video explaining the situationconfusedpanda wrote:Accidents are mistakes that people make. If you were talking to someone and accidentally said something that hurt them, even slightly and they frowned, would you not say sorry? That's the case here. A simple sorry can go a long way if someone is hurt, which many were.capybantsa wrote:Maybe I'm just too easy going, but I don't see why it's necessary to apologize so seriously for such a small mistake that anybody could make. Of course it would be different if they were making a racist joke, but this was really just an accident
Also vanderlyle, I seriously doubt they have PR management people that lurk on they're fans to make sure they're doing good. They're youtubers, not some big Hollywood star. Idk who I heard it from (probably a ton of youtubers) but YouTube managements are only in place for youtubers to get brand deals, sponsorships and I believe help protect the copyright of their videos. Why do you think so many youtubers say whatever they want and barely get in trouble with management unless it's really bad (e.g. Felix losing his company he signed with Disney only after the media exposed all the racist/disgustingly problematic shit he did earlier this year)? They don't manage people in the same way Hollywood stars get managed. So yeah, dan and Phil probably saw the major posts about it in they're tumblr tags as it's been in it all day long and took the action at they're own accord.
i should have said "i like to imagine" rather than that there is just one person dedicated solely to that. But, while it is true that managers primarily orchestrate the business side of things, FlipSide definitely have PR people in place as well. As we have seen, brands don't want to be associated with anyone who could damage their reputation in some way. while the lads aren't brad pitt, there is definitely someone partially keeping an eye out for controversy. that's not to say they didn't see the mistake themselves, but there are definitely conversations about image and with such a massive fandom, perception is important. but - we will never know all the details unless someone decides to do a tell-all in a few yearsconfusedpanda wrote:Also vanderlyle, I seriously doubt they have PR management people that lurk on they're fans to make sure they're doing good. They're youtubers, not some big Hollywood star. Idk who I heard it from (probably a ton of youtubers) but YouTube managements are only in place for youtubers to get brand deals, sponsorships and I believe help protect the copyright of their videos. Why do you think so many youtubers say whatever they want and barely get in trouble with management unless it's really bad (e.g. Felix losing his company he signed with Disney only after the media exposed all the racist/disgustingly problematic shit he did earlier this year)? They don't manage people in the same way Hollywood stars get managed. So yeah, dan and Phil probably saw the major posts about it in they're tumblr tags as it's been in it all day long and took the action at their own accord.capybantsa wrote:Maybe I'm just too easy going, but I don't see why it's necessary to apologize so seriously for such a small mistake that anybody could make. Of course it would be different if they were making a racist joke, but this was really just an accident
Which part are you considering to be overly serious though? The simple acknowledgement that some people were offended and them not entirely brushing that off?capybantsa wrote:I just said that because people seem to be praising them for not apologizing less seriously, when it seems to me like it would've been perfectly fine. Even just "hey sorry guys we made a mistake with the editing and it accidentally took a turn for the racist, working with youtube to get it sorted!" would've been totally appropriate I think. But like I said, I'm quite easy going.
I mean if I accidentally ran somebody over while driving, and totally didn't mean to lol whoops it wasn't my intent, I still ran somebody over...Sinister Shipper wrote: The bags aren't a representation of anything Japanese & I don't think they expected their "fans" to scream CULTURAL APPROPRIATION because of their decision to have their names in Japanese. Their fans shouldn't feel offended because they should know that this wasn't done in poor taste, if these fans that are claiming cultural appropriation are fans, they know that DnP aren't typically offensive, especially not on purpose to be rude. Their push to have their Dream Daddy video edited is proof that their intention isn't to be rude or offensive to anyone, especially their Asian fans.
Their Cherry Blossom shirts are in no way appropriating Japanese culture either because Japan isn't the only place known for Cherry Blossoms. I've seen the shirt design mentioned in a few arguments as well & that's just reaching too far.
People get too offended by things that weren't intended to be offensive. Nowadays people can't say or do anything with offending someone.
The part of the whole backpack issue is that they're financially profiting off of the Japanese language while not actually being from that culture. Not only that, but they routinely refer to their use of Japanese lettering on the bag as a way to be subtle about fan merch. They're reducing another language down to just a code people can use that they presume no one else will understand, which really has nothing to do with it or the products actually celebrating Japanese culture.Sinister Shipper wrote:A part of appropriating a culture, is to misrepresent, disrespect & desecrate it. Which I don't think they did in any way. Yes, I know that another part of the definition of appropriating culture is to use elements of one culture by members of a different culture.
Having their names in Japanese shouldn't be considered offensive. If they decided to take it further & use images or words associated with Japanese culture then I can understand people being offended but it's only their names.
Dan and Phil's intentions aren't to disrespect Japanese culture, they aren't jumping on a bandwagon because it's a cute trendy thing to do, they have always been very open about their interest in Japanese culture.
Accidentally ran somebody overfancybum wrote: Which part are you considering to be overly serious though? The simple acknowledgement that some people were offended and them not entirely brushing that off?
I mean if I accidentally ran somebody over while driving, and totally didn't mean to lol whoops it wasn't my intent, I still ran somebody over...
Thank you for saying this!!!!! It's nice to hear the perspective from someone that is part of the Japanese/Chinese culture.magnolia wrote:[offtopic]My first post yay[/offtopic]
Just wanted to give my two cents on the backpack situation as a half-Chinese half-Japanese person. Honestly, emotionally speaking I don't feel uncomfortable with it at all. There are specifically two cases of cultural appropriation that I hate: one is when people misunderstand the cultural piece they're using, either the meaning or the origins, which isn't happening cause well they're just writing their names. The second case is when people use it merely as a graphic aesthetic choice, especially when they don't understand the meaning, but I'm not too certain about this one either, because honestly people all over the world print English on everything just for the design, and I'm not sure what makes East Asian languages so sacred and not-usable. Because of how rich and deep the culture behind the language is? But do you think DP would've received as much backlash if they used another language with Latin alphabets? Or is it "more okay" just because they use Latin alphabets as well, even though they're from a completely different culture?
Honestly this is something that really annoys me because most of the time it just feels like Westerners are gatekeeping something they don't even understand, "protecting" the East from being invaded by culture from the West, but we live in a globalized world that should encourage communication between different cultures, letting us acknowledge and appreciate each other's languages. I remember seeing a white person on tumblr bashing another white person for liking to wear kimono, and I was just genuinely incredibly annoyed. As long as they're not misinterpreting or misusing it, I love it when other people appreciate and love our culture, and it makes me sad feeling like people back away from doing that just in fear of offending people who are not even part of it, or they feel like they can't do it just because they're not Asian studies scholars. Honestly we already know DP are giant weebs who really appreciate the country and its culture, so it's not like they just threw it on there for no reason, they love Japanese stuff, and I just find it really cute, katakana looks cute. And like let's be real, being such offense-aware people means that they must've consulted people - most probably PDR - on whether it was okay or not, and they said it was.
Having said all this though I do understand why people don't like it, the thought that they are using this just for the ~aesthetics~ or part of their branding even though they're 100% British lads can be kind of weird. But I feel like to join in on the discussion as someone from that culture I have to be completely honest, and to be completely honest, I'm completely fine with it. Maybe I'm just too relaxed and careless idk, but for example when I saw Arin from Game Grumps showing us his office which was completely Japan-themed and covered in Japanese words and goods, I just went: aw sweet! You nailed it! And didn't think it could be problematic at all until someone said so in the comments. And again it comes back to, what makes Asian languages so special? If there is a Chinese blogger who prints her name in Italian on her products, is that appropriate? If a Japanese singer titles her songs with unrelated French words and sings in Japanese, is that okay?
That was a long ass first post. Would love to hear other perspectives on this!!
Lmaaaaao イエス ユアー ヴァリッド ベイビー！ hahaha god I've always hated reading foreign fiction translated into Japanese just cause of all the katakana names like good god what are these alien signatures.capybantsa wrote:Magnolia! Welcome, and I totally agree!
As before, I don't want to act as if my opinion is more valid just because I'm Japanese, but I promise you that D&P have done nothing wrong by Japanese standards. It's completely the opposite, their merch is totally normal and actually kinda cool in Japanese people's eyes.
Japanese line of logic: Oh, foreigners are using katakana! → Our country is small and katakana is only used here, so choosing our script out of all the scripts in the world makes us feel special! → Maybe this will inspire some people to learn Japanese or explore Japanese culture deeper, but even if they don't that's okay too! Yay sharing!
And actually, in Japanese we have four scripts, one of which is the Latin alphabet and one of which is Chinese. If we can adopt the Latin script for our language, why can't a Latin script language adopt katakana? イブン ゾー ジス イズ ノット アー ベリー グッド ウェー ツー ライト イングリッシュ アイ シンク イット ウッド ビー ヴァリッド、 ドンチュー？ ダン アンド フィル レッツ ゴー！ (wow that is a nightmare lol)
Accidentally ran somebody overfancybum wrote: Which part are you considering to be overly serious though? The simple acknowledgement that some people were offended and them not entirely brushing that off?
I mean if I accidentally ran somebody over while driving, and totally didn't mean to lol whoops it wasn't my intent, I still ran somebody over...
Accidentally made it seem like you made a small eyes joke
In my eyes one of these things requires an apology, one doesn't
Hi magnolia, welcome! Good to have you here, and thanks for your post.magnolia wrote:[offtopic]My first post yay[/offtopic]
Just wanted to give my two cents on the backpack situation as a half-Chinese half-Japanese person. Honestly, emotionally speaking I don't feel uncomfortable with it at all. There are specifically two cases of cultural appropriation that I hate: one is when people misunderstand the cultural piece they're using, either the meaning or the origins, which isn't happening cause well they're just writing their names. The second case is when people use it merely as a graphic aesthetic choice, especially when they don't understand the meaning, but I'm not too certain about this one either, because honestly people all over the world print English on everything just for the design, and I'm not sure what makes East Asian languages so sacred and not-usable. Because of how rich and deep the culture behind the language is? But do you think DP would've received as much backlash if they used another language with Latin alphabets? Or is it "more okay" just because they use Latin alphabets as well, even though they're from a completely different culture?
Honestly this is something that really annoys me because most of the time it just feels like Westerners are gatekeeping something they don't even understand, "protecting" the East from being invaded by culture from the West, but we live in a globalized world that should encourage communication between different cultures, letting us acknowledge and appreciate each other's languages. I remember seeing a white person on tumblr bashing another white person for liking to wear kimono, and I was just genuinely incredibly annoyed. As long as they're not misinterpreting or misusing it, I love it when other people appreciate and love our culture, and it makes me sad feeling like people back away from doing that just in fear of offending people who are not even part of it, or they feel like they can't do it just because they're not Asian studies scholars. Honestly we already know DP are giant weebs who really appreciate the country and its culture, so it's not like they just threw it on there for no reason, they love Japanese stuff, and I just find it really cute, katakana looks cute. And like let's be real, being such offense-aware people means that they must've consulted people - most probably PDR - on whether it was okay or not, and they said it was.
Having said all this though I do understand why people don't like it, the thought that they are using this just for the ~aesthetics~ or part of their branding even though they're 100% British lads can be kind of weird. But I feel like to join in on the discussion as someone from that culture I have to be completely honest, and to be completely honest, I'm completely fine with it. Maybe I'm just too relaxed and careless idk, but for example when I saw Arin from Game Grumps showing us his office which was completely Japan-themed and covered in Japanese words and goods, I just went: aw sweet! You nailed it! And didn't think it could be problematic at all until someone said so in the comments. And again it comes back to, what makes Asian languages so special? If there is a Chinese blogger who prints her name in Italian on her products, is that appropriate? If a Japanese singer titles her songs with unrelated French words and sings in Japanese, is that okay?
That was a long ass first post. Would love to hear other perspectives on this!!
This has absolutely nothing to do with what I was saying, the context of my statement was very obvious based on the rest of what my post said. Accidentally running someone over & not meaning it has no correlation to DnP merch with Japanese writing, you can't compare the 2. Physically harming someone accidentally & writing your name in Japanese, yeah I can totally see how they relate to each other.People get too offended by things that weren't intended to be offensive. Nowadays people can't say or do anything with offending someone.
I mean if I accidentally ran somebody over while driving, and totally didn't mean to lol whoops it wasn't my intent, I still ran somebody over...
I definitely don't defend everything they do. I do however defend their right to do as they please with their merch, if you or anyone else don't like it or agree with it, don't buy it. You assume to know more about why they decided to put it in Japanese based on a few comments made by Dan, (he doesn't tell everyone the reasoning behind every single decision they make) - but to say "There's no good reason for their names, their brand, to be in Japanese on merch just because they went to Japan one time and watch a lot of anime", the only reason they need is because they wanted to. They don't need to justify their decisions or apologize for offending a small percentage of people that more than likely aren't even Asian. "And as people have said many times over, Dan saying that it's a cool little secret thing because nobody can actually read it (except for you know, people who actually. speak. Japanese. but nevermind them) isn't the best way to go about things either" - that was a passing statement, do you really think a 26 yr old man & a 30 yr old man pitched the idea of having it in Japanese as a "cool little secret thing because nobody can actually read it" - they liked the looks of it, they know what most of their fans want (which has been proven by the amount of people I've seen that have purchased the bags) & from the fans that had/have shown interest in their cherry blossom design, they just like it.Just because you like somebody doesn't mean you need to defend 100% of everything they do, even if you assume their intentions are always good and they're overall nice people. There's no good reason for their names, their brand, to be in Japanese on merch just because they went to Japan one time and watch a lot of anime. The Japhan blossom design, when it was a bit more timely, at least made more sense. Not so much now . And as people have said many times over, Dan saying that it's a cool little secret thing because nobody can actually read it (except for you know, people who actually. speak. Japanese. but nevermind them) isn't the best way to go about things either. Get a damn logo.
[/quote]If I whisper 'cultural appropriation' instead of screaming it, can I still be a fan instead of a "fan"?
Just to make that "fans" clear from above, it wasn't meant to have the quotations around it, that was an error on my part so the intention wasn't meant to be taken as me saying "so called fans" if that is how you took it, I apologize.The bags aren't a representation of anything Japanese & I don't think they expected their "fans" to scream CULTURAL APPROPRIATION because of their decision to have their names in Japanese. Their fans shouldn't feel offended because they should know that this wasn't done in poor taste, if these fans that are claiming cultural appropriation are fans, they know that DnP aren't typically offensive, especially not on purpose to be rude. Their push to have their Dream Daddy video edited is proof that their intention isn't to be rude or offensive to anyone, especially their Asian fans.
magnolia wrote:Lmaaaaao イエス ユアー ヴァリッド ベイビー！ hahaha god I've always hated reading foreign fiction translated into Japanese just cause of all the katakana names like good god what are these alien signatures.capybantsa wrote:Magnolia! Welcome, and I totally agree!
As before, I don't want to act as if my opinion is more valid just because I'm Japanese, but I promise you that D&P have done nothing wrong by Japanese standards. It's completely the opposite, their merch is totally normal and actually kinda cool in Japanese people's eyes.
Japanese line of logic: Oh, foreigners are using katakana! → Our country is small and katakana is only used here, so choosing our script out of all the scripts in the world makes us feel special! → Maybe this will inspire some people to learn Japanese or explore Japanese culture deeper, but even if they don't that's okay too! Yay sharing!
And actually, in Japanese we have four scripts, one of which is the Latin alphabet and one of which is Chinese. If we can adopt the Latin script for our language, why can't a Latin script language adopt katakana? イブン ゾー ジス イズ ノット アー ベリー グッド ウェー ツー ライト イングリッシュ アイ シンク イット ウッド ビー ヴァリッド、 ドンチュー？ ダン アンド フィル レッツ ゴー！ (wow that is a nightmare lol)
Accidentally ran somebody overfancybum wrote: Which part are you considering to be overly serious though? The simple acknowledgement that some people were offended and them not entirely brushing that off?
I mean if I accidentally ran somebody over while driving, and totally didn't mean to lol whoops it wasn't my intent, I still ran somebody over...
Accidentally made it seem like you made a small eyes joke
In my eyes one of these things requires an apology, one doesn't
But yes I'm so happy someone agrees! Most of us really just don't find it offensive and are actually really happy that deppy loves Japanese culture so much. Western culture and English is so popular and prevalent throughout the world that no one cares where it's used, but it's like Westerners can't appreciate East Asian culture without being labeled as a weeb or guilty of appropriation. Like guys, we're actual people who live in this place, in the 21st century, not cultural artifacts sitting there waiting to be protected. Languages are great and they are made by people to communicate with other people, as long as they know where it's from, I'm just happy that they wanted to communicate with this language because they think it's beautiful!
capybantsa wrote:Magnolia! Welcome, and I totally agree!
As before, I don't want to act as if my opinion is more valid just because I'm Japanese, but I promise you that D&P have done nothing wrong by Japanese standards. It's completely the opposite, their merch is totally normal and actually kinda cool in Japanese people's eyes.
Japanese line of logic: Oh, foreigners are using katakana! → Our country is small and katakana is only used here, so choosing our script out of all the scripts in the world makes us feel special! → Maybe this will inspire some people to learn Japanese or explore Japanese culture deeper, but even if they don't that's okay too! Yay sharing!
And actually, in Japanese we have four scripts, one of which is the Latin alphabet and one of which is Chinese. If we can adopt the Latin script for our language, why can't a Latin script language adopt katakana? イブン ゾー ジス イズ ノット アー ベリー グッド ウェー ツー ライト イングリッシュ アイ シンク イット ウッド ビー ヴァリッド、 ドンチュー？ ダン アンド フィル レッツ ゴー！ (wow that is a nightmare lol)
Accidentally ran somebody overfancybum wrote: Which part are you considering to be overly serious though? The simple acknowledgement that some people were offended and them not entirely brushing that off?
I mean if I accidentally ran somebody over while driving, and totally didn't mean to lol whoops it wasn't my intent, I still ran somebody over...
Accidentally made it seem like you made a small eyes joke
In my eyes one of these things requires an apology, one doesn't
I had to read Harry Potter in English because it was just too much of a headache, although looking back it did help me keep my English quite wellmagnolia wrote: Lmaaaaao イエス ユアー ヴァリッド ベイビー！ hahaha god I've always hated reading foreign fiction translated into Japanese just cause of all the katakana names like good god what are these alien signatures.
But yes I'm so happy someone agrees! Most of us really just don't find it offensive and are actually really happy that deppy loves Japanese culture so much. Western culture and English is so popular and prevalent throughout the world that no one cares where it's used, but it's like Westerners can't appreciate East Asian culture without being labeled as a weeb or guilty of appropriation. Like guys, we're actual people who live in this place, in the 21st century, not cultural artifacts sitting there waiting to be protected. Languages are great and they are made by people to communicate with other people, as long as they know where it's from, I'm just happy that they wanted to communicate with this language because they think it's beautiful!
For what it's worth, I don't think culture has a race. There are white Japanese. There are Asian British. I don't think a person of Japanese heritage who has no connection to Japanese culture is Japanese, they just share some genes that came from this region of the world. That's just my opinion, but I really don't like the idea of race being some kind of magical thing that connects you directly to the culture of every other person who shares that same race.SneakyLizard wrote: I am a coward who does not share public opinions readily (please don't hate me guys?), but your remarks about gatekeeping and the use of East Asian languages vs other languages articulated some of the thoughts I've been turning over in my head really well. Granted, I am white so I hesitate to jump into the discussion at all, but I just haven't really felt like the level of concern being expressed is entirely justified. For those reasons you mention. But maybe other people with Japanese heritage *are* bothered by it and I just am not aware, so I second your call for more opinions.
Sinister Shipper wrote: Love to you as well for making this point!
alittledizzy wrote:The part of the whole backpack issue is that they're financially profiting off of the Japanese language while not actually being from that culture. Not only that, but they routinely refer to their use of Japanese lettering on the bag as a way to be subtle about fan merch. They're reducing another language down to just a code people can use that they presume no one else will understand, which really has nothing to do with it or the products actually celebrating Japanese culture.Sinister Shipper wrote:A part of appropriating a culture, is to misrepresent, disrespect & desecrate it. Which I don't think they did in any way. Yes, I know that another part of the definition of appropriating culture is to use elements of one culture by members of a different culture.
Having their names in Japanese shouldn't be considered offensive. If they decided to take it further & use images or words associated with Japanese culture then I can understand people being offended but it's only their names.
Dan and Phil's intentions aren't to disrespect Japanese culture, they aren't jumping on a bandwagon because it's a cute trendy thing to do, they have always been very open about their interest in Japanese culture.
And as far as the second point I quoted goes - they're interested in Japanese tv shows, not Japanese culture. Aside from going there on vacation once, there is nothing about Japanese culture outside of anime that they regularly talk about. They have never given any indication that they're learning the language, or studying the history, or in general know much about Japanese culture at all besides what they see in anime. And, to paraphrase someone else in a similar conversation earlier, I don't think having gone somewhere on vacation once is really enough to justify it. Otherwise they'd be doing merch lines for every vacation they've taken together.
I'm about as white as it gets, so I'm not the best person to take up this mantle but I still do want to throw my voice out there for whatever it is worth. Just as most people on here discussing this have already said, it doesn't make them the worst people and I don't think it makes them racist in the very black-and-white terms that people defending them tend to apply. It's just a misstep that fans who are offended by have every right to call out.
I would NEVER use the term racist in any conversation referring to Dan and Phil, especially in a discussion about appropriation because they are two completely different things. Appropriation doesn't have to be a bad thing, as long as the culture isn't being disrespected, people can appropriate positively.Sinister Shipper wrote:alittledizzy wrote:The part of the whole backpack issue is that they're financially profiting off of the Japanese language while not actually being from that culture. Not only that, but they routinely refer to their use of Japanese lettering on the bag as a way to be subtle about fan merch. They're reducing another language down to just a code people can use that they presume no one else will understand, which really has nothing to do with it or the products actually celebrating Japanese culture.Sinister Shipper wrote:A part of appropriating a culture, is to misrepresent, disrespect & desecrate it. Which I don't think they did in any way. Yes, I know that another part of the definition of appropriating culture is to use elements of one culture by members of a different culture.
Having their names in Japanese shouldn't be considered offensive. If they decided to take it further & use images or words associated with Japanese culture then I can understand people being offended but it's only their names.
Dan and Phil's intentions aren't to disrespect Japanese culture, they aren't jumping on a bandwagon because it's a cute trendy thing to do, they have always been very open about their interest in Japanese culture.
And as far as the second point I quoted goes - they're interested in Japanese tv shows, not Japanese culture. Aside from going there on vacation once, there is nothing about Japanese culture outside of anime that they regularly talk about. They have never given any indication that they're learning the language, or studying the history, or in general know much about Japanese culture at all besides what they see in anime. And, to paraphrase someone else in a similar conversation earlier, I don't think having gone somewhere on vacation once is really enough to justify it. Otherwise they'd be doing merch lines for every vacation they've taken together.
I'm about as white as it gets, so I'm not the best person to take up this mantle but I still do want to throw my voice out there for whatever it is worth. Just as most people on here discussing this have already said, it doesn't make them the worst people and I don't think it makes them racist in the very black-and-white terms that people defending them tend to apply. It's just a misstep that fans who are offended by have every right to call out.
People aren't buying the backpacks just because they have Japanese writing on them, they are buying them because of what the product is, it's something that can be used in every day life, something that a majority of the phandom will appreciate because they are in school. They aren't financially profiting off of the Japanese language with 3 words!
As far as you know, they aren't interested in anything other than anime - who says? because they don't talk about it?? they don't talk about a lot of things. Maybe Japan means way more to them than any of us will ever know, so to make the assumption that one vacation can't justify it is your opinion. As for them, I'm sure that some vacations mean more to them than others but to say they'd be doing merch lines for every vacation they've taken together because it was simply just that, a vacation (where they have only been to once), is preposterous because most places (with the exception of Singapor maybe a few more but who knows) they have been to, for the most part, speak English and therefore isn't valid to the discussion of using Japanese writing on merch.
