Dan & Phil Part 52: And They Were Roommates

[sparkle]

Phil's main channel is probably my current favourite youtube channel (and I say this despite finding Dans content funnier and, generally, more relatable) I'm writing this and realising i've been a fan for 5 years (including the time I took 'off' where I was still relatively aware of them) and i've seen a lot of evolution in them.

I can't not love Phil, I hated Dan at one point, but Phil always just made me happy? I was having a bad day a while ago and put 'I need a hug' into the search box on Phil's channel and I swear to god it nearly made me cry that he'd tagged videos with that. (For the record the same happens on Dans channel). A big thing that got me re-interested in Phil is that right now I need that kind of wholesome content? And Phil just has this talent of brightening my day.

Dan on the other hand, because I find him more relatable part of what is honestly keeping me interested in him right now is seeing his development in how he talks about his sexuality. I'll admit, part of what is keeping me interested in Dan is seeing wether or not he's going to address the large, queer, elephant in the room more explicitly than he has done. However, since Dan's rebrand I'm happier with him than I've ever been.

I remember when they started the gaming channel (waddup I was subscriber #147 go me) and EVERYONE and their mother thought it was going to be a coming out. I'm not too fussed about it tbh, there are gaming channels I prefer and it doesn't keep me sticking around because I'm frustrated by it most of the time. I still enjoy it, I just don't think it has a bearing on how much I'm watching them?

edit: UGHHHHH i'm so sorry my waffle is at the top of the page

[LtrllySusan]

So much cherry everywhere Cherry blossom trees in the Sims, cherry dry hair shampoo in the AP video, and now this?

[RiriPandaHeart2]

So much cherry everywhere Cherry blossom trees in the Sims, cherry dry hair shampoo in the AP video, and now this?

They must surely know that the Phandom already associates cherries with........ yah know. :wtf:

[apathy]

Dan and Phil are only as successful as they are because of Dan and Phil. It isn't really even an opinion at this point, it is a fact. In all honesty, if they hadn't met Phil would probably have stopped making videos by now and Dan wouldn't have even started. If they had met but they weren't as close now, I reckon Dan would still have a few million maybe and Phil would maybe have around a million.

I think if Dan and Phil hadn't met, Phil would basically be Jimmy right now - a youtube dinosaur with a smallish channel (Jimmy has about 100k subs) still making videos because he likes making videos, but with an actual career that isn't youtube.

Phimmy RISE
I agree, and he was already pretty successful without Dan and got invited to do the radio presenting by himself originally, so I could see Phil still doing radio presenting & working his way up the BBC ladder or joining another smaller production company as a main career, while making videos on the side, because he likes it.

General question for anyone: do you think Phil would've agreed to do the radio thing and move to London by himself if he hadn't met Dan? (Assuming that he still got the full invitation, since the first offer was just a short appearance in a "talent show", right?)

At some point I remember he said something like "the insanity tends to set in" when he's alone for too long, so it's hard for me to imagine him being eager to live by himself in a big city. Also I feel like at some point he mentioned not going to Playlist or Vidcon or something the first time it was offered because he didn't want to go alone? I could've made that up. He might've found someone else in that alternate universe, of course. But I'm not sure if Phil is the type of person to make that leap by himself. Just wondering what other people think.

[onetruetrash]

hi! I've been ia for the past few days but now i'm almost caught up with the 10 pages i missed. I have, however, been having a LOT of deppy related conversations with a friend, and some thoughts were sparked that I felt like would be interesting to share on here and get some opinions

So one thing that my friend brought up was that she doesn't enjoy Phil's main channel content anymore and that if she came across one of his videos today, not being aware of phan, or even dan, not even the gaming channel, she wouldn't be interested in him. I didn't really get this at first, but the more i thought about it, the more I realized how much it applies to me as well. This made me think of a few things that I'd actually really like to hear you guys' opinions on: How many of you enjoy Dan and Phil's main channel videos, regardless of their ship? Would you still be as excited about everything if the gaming channel wasn't a thing and they rarely made videos together? And if people just believed they were best friends, with no romantic elements involved, and less theories, would you be as invested in the Phandom and their videos?

-(kinda irrelevant here, but violet-writer's post a few pages ago made me think about this) How long do you guys think Dan and Phil will stay relevant? My personal opinion is that their career has been at it's peak since 2014, but if they stay at the same rate they've been at for the past few months, they're going to go down soon. Unless, of course, there's another tour or book, or *the documentary.* Phil's never come off to me as the kind of person who values his content based on how many views it gets. He seems to just make his videos as he pleases, but i don't think that's the same case for dan.

This whole post is basically a gateway for opinions and a discussion tbh because I'm really interested in knowing what you all think about all this, so feel free to agree and disagree

-and finally, a VERY plausible theory for that week in march. Get ready to cancel all the moving talk: Phil got a girl preggo, and that's why Dan is stalling telling us, trine get to 9 months, and was all like 'you may or may not find out,' and it also explains his reaction the first time he mentioned it. And it's why the Lester's were in London. They were all there for an ultrasound appointment. Phil seemed off in the DD video because he was realizing what his life will be like in 15 years when his child is a teenager. Dan did a live show in his room because Phil was buys putting together a crib, and the crib is now on the other side of Phil's set, which is why he won't show it to us. We're also not getting an apartment tour because they're getting the baby room ready. Dan's really going to have to work on not screaming if they're going to have a baby in the house though

I don't think Dan and Phil will fade out any time soon. To me, it seems like they peaked in 2015, so I don't think they'll ever have the same amount of attention that they once had. Eventually they will fade and I'm not sure how they'll feel about it. I think Dan cares about views more than he admits, so I think he'll miss the attention, but it will also give both of them a chance to live their lives normally. When they do decide to leave, I get the feeling they might go out with a bang. I remember I said that before and on Dan's liveshow that day, he said something about if you're leaving, you might as well go out with a bang. I'm pretty sure if Dan and Phil are in a relationship, they will announce it in their last video.

As far as if Dan and Phil had never met, I think Phil would still be a YouTuber just because he loves making videos and would have a much smaller fanbase. As for Dan, he still watched plenty of YouTubers, so I think he still would've become one. He's made a lot of #relatable videos, so he surely could've gotten a large fanbase on his own. Despite that, he probably wouldn't feel very happy or satisfied with his life without Phil.

So much cherry everywhere Cherry blossom trees in the Sims, cherry dry hair shampoo in the AP video, and now this?

And there was cherry flavored candy in their Higher or Lower video

[interruptfireworks]

How many of you enjoy Dan and Phil's main channel videos, regardless of their ship? Would you still be as excited about everything if the gaming channel wasn't a thing and they rarely made videos together? And if people just believed they were best friends, with no romantic elements involved, and less theories, would you be as invested in the Phandom and their videos?

honestly??? i probably would still be interested, just not so much to be on a whole forum about them theorising everything.

that's why dan and phil are so popular, they have that chemistry that is so 'accessible' (is that the word i'm looking for? probably not). whether you think they're best friends, boyfriends or even husbands, you can't deny that their relationship is something special.

if people believed d&p were just friends and all that stuff, i wouldn't be as drawn in bc there's nothing to get my mind going if that makes sense. many of the youtubers i watch just make videos that i watch and then after watching i think nothing of it other than 'that was a good video'; whereas with d&p, you can think about their adoration for each other, the way they talk to each other or other things. i think what makes it fun also is that, we all know this but, they have this mystery about them.

i'm gonna stop before i go off and this tangent somehow gets really deep but tldr: i probably wouldn't be so invested in them if there weren't those theories, backstories or whatever but i'd still like their content.

[Elyanie]

So one thing that my friend brought up was that she doesn't enjoy Phil's main channel content anymore and that if she came across one of his videos today, not being aware of phan, or even dan, not even the gaming channel, she wouldn't be interested in him. I didn't really get this at first, but the more i thought about it, the more I realized how much it applies to me as well. This made me think of a few things that I'd actually really like to hear you guys' opinions on: How many of you enjoy Dan and Phil's main channel videos, regardless of their ship? Would you still be as excited about everything if the gaming channel wasn't a thing and they rarely made videos together? And if people just believed they were best friends, with no romantic elements involved, and less theories, would you be as invested in the Phandom and their videos?

-(kinda irrelevant here, but violet-writer's post a few pages ago made me think about this) How long do you guys think Dan and Phil will stay relevant? My personal opinion is that their career has been at it's peak since 2014, but if they stay at the same rate they've been at for the past few months, they're going to go down soon. Unless, of course, there's another tour or book, or *the documentary.* Phil's never come off to me as the kind of person who values his content based on how many views it gets. He seems to just make his videos as he pleases, but i don't think that's the same case for dan.

When I first started watching them I didn't really think of them as a unit since I started watching them separately in 2013. I don't think I even knew they lived together until around 2014 when I started getting invested into the phandom. I think I just thought they made some collab videos together like any other youtubers did. So, from that I would say I would probably watch them separately to this day, but the problem with that is I have a very different taste in videos nowadays then back 3, 4 years ago.

What I mean is a lot of the other youtubers I used to watch 3 or 4 years ago I've long since unsubscribed to them because I became disinterested in that kind of content (most of them had similar content to Dan and Phil's). I've stayed here for so long because I ended up finding the phandom which led me to become interested in their personalities and their chemistry. Which makes me skeptical on whether or not I would still watch them to this day solely based on their solo content alone since I'm no longer completely interested in sketch type videos or vlog based stuff.

I'm really into the gaming scene though, which makes their gaming videos really enjoyable for me, so if the phandom and shipping wasn't a thing for them, and they still had the gaming channel, I could see myself watching that channel still.

I could see them staying relevant if they only made their solo content, but I don't think that they would've made it as far as they have with the books, tour, movie, and everything else. Their success so far I think is largely attributed to that fact that they have a HUGE phandom that is invested in not only their content, but their relationship, and the fandom activities that go with it i.e. speculation, fanart/fanfiction, discussions, etc.

-and finally, a VERY plausible theory for that week in march. Get ready to cancel all the moving talk: Phil got a girl preggo, and that's why Dan is stalling telling us, trine get to 9 months, and was all like 'you may or may not find out,' and it also explains his reaction the first time he mentioned it. And it's why the Lester's were in London. They were all there for an ultrasound appointment. Phil seemed off in the DD video because he was realizing what his life will be like in 15 years when his child is a teenager. Dan did a live show in his room because Phil was buys putting together a crib, and the crib is now on the other side of Phil's set, which is why he won't show it to us. We're also not getting an apartment tour because they're getting the baby room ready. Dan's really going to have to work on not screaming if they're going to have a baby in the house though

This also made me laugh really hard. I'm down for this drama.

[sparkle]

When they do decide to leave, I get the feeling they might go out with a bang. I remember I said that before and on Dan's liveshow that day, he said something about if you're leaving, you might as well go out with a bang. I'm pretty sure if Dan and Phil are in a relationship, they will announce it in their last video.

So much cherry everywhere Cherry blossom trees in the Sims, cherry dry hair shampoo in the AP video, and now this?

And there was cherry flavored candy in their Higher or Lower video

the implication of these two things together has got me nearly crying laughing

[demonpanda]

If they don't have a gaming channel I will probably never start to watch their videos. Because their contents are not the thing I used to watch (I only subscribed to channel like every frame a painting or now you see it that make video essay), but there is one time I really want to watch something relaxing and I loved playing sims so I started to watch their sims series. I never thought I would enjoy that much and soon attracted to their personality then start to watch their videos. So I guess there are quite a lot of people like me that not used to watch that kind of content but get to know their from gaming videos because those are the content that most people are familar with.

As for their individual videos, if I am not already know them through gaming videos, I might not start to watch phils videos because a lot of his videos are targeting to people who already know him, like pinof and tumblr tag. The rest of his videos, if only judging from the title, might not be so attractive to new viewers because there are too many similar videos on YouTube. So I think if Dan and phil are not making video together, the main problem for him is less people will click their first AmazingPhil videos.

But it also make me think if dan and phil didn't meet will phil make the similar video he does now? I mean his content and style changed a lot after 2009. So I think maybe dan and also their fame made him changed his content to make his video appealing to his viewers. This also made me wondering are then content he made before 2009 what he truly love to make. Because Im a amateur filmmaker and love filmmaking, I only want to make something original, unique and spend a long time doing research and design. Phil also said he loves filmmaking, he have read some books about filmmaking and even attend a grad school related to film. In fact his early are all quite original compare to most video at that time, you can see he put a lot of time and energy and also his passion. But I can't see the same thing in his recent videos. He definitely enjoy videos he is making right now but what if he kept his style? He probably will have less views than now but will he be happier and more pleased with his own videos?

Maybe I'm thinking to much. What do you guys think about this?

(It's 2am rn my brain has stoped working)

[leaveimreading]

I'm loving all your responses! It's cool that there's a wide range.

I like to think that there's a main timeline, and on that timeline, Dan graduated from university and became a lawyer and he's all like 'what's a meme?' because he's #professional and extremely opinionated and controversial. But we're the little timeline detour. We're the alternate universe. I've always felt like Dan and Phil becoming friends was one of those things that someone up in heaven went out of their way to make happen. It's just such a specific chain of events.

onetruetrash I really liked the 'go out with a bang' concept. I never really thought of that before. I can totally see Dan doing that with his main channel, but then sometimes doing candle hauls or whatever on his side channel. I feel like Phil will just continue on a Jenna Marbles road and do whatever he wants, he's sort of doing that anyway now.

All these recent posts are just making my brain explode with questions. What would it be like if dnp were openly dating other people? If they were openly dating each other? If everything was like it is now but they never moved in together? If dan was making videos but also didn't drop out of uni? If Phil was married? ahhhh

[LtrllySusan]

When they do decide to leave, I get the feeling they might go out with a bang. I remember I said that before and on Dan's liveshow that day, he said something about if you're leaving, you might as well go out with a bang. I'm pretty sure if Dan and Phil are in a relationship, they will announce it in their last video.

So much cherry everywhere Cherry blossom trees in the Sims, cherry dry hair shampoo in the AP video, and now this?

And there was cherry flavored candy in their Higher or Lower video

One could say.... they'd go out with a cherry bang... a cherry bomb?
*mic drop*

[missemma]

Dear all,

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[onetruetrash]

When they do decide to leave, I get the feeling they might go out with a bang. I remember I said that before and on Dan's liveshow that day, he said something about if you're leaving, you might as well go out with a bang. I'm pretty sure if Dan and Phil are in a relationship, they will announce it in their last video.

So much cherry everywhere Cherry blossom trees in the Sims, cherry dry hair shampoo in the AP video, and now this?

And there was cherry flavored candy in their Higher or Lower video

the implication of these two things together has got me nearly crying laughing

I didn't even mean to do that I know, I'm a comedic genius.

[missemma]

guys, we are going to have to temporarily close the forum whilst we get it backed up, sorry for the inconvenience.

we will be doing this in about 5 minutes.

[jesp]

guys, we are going to have to temporarily close the forum whilst we get it backed up, sorry for the inconvenience.

we will be doing this in about 5 minutes.

You can keep up to date during the downtime through our twitter, by emailing us at [email protected], or you can email me directly at [email protected] or contact me on twitter here.

[jesp]

We're still in the process of transferring to a new host, but at the moment we're up against a significant roadblock, so we've had to delay it once again.

For the moment, we've had to disable the other themes on the forum, we've had to remove the custom smilies, and we've had to disable a small number of other non-critical features. The ability to read and post here is the same as usual, so we're hoping the disruption is minimal.

We apologise for the downtime, and we really appreciate the patience shown by every poster here.

[autumnhearth]

When they do decide to leave, I get the feeling they might go out with a bang. I remember I said that before and on Dan's liveshow that day, he said something about if you're leaving, you might as well go out with a bang. I'm pretty sure if Dan and Phil are in a relationship, they will announce it in their last video.

So much cherry everywhere :somuch: Cherry blossom trees in the Sims, cherry dry hair shampoo in the AP video, and now this?

And there was cherry flavored candy in their Higher or Lower video

One could say.... they'd go out with a cherry bang... a cherry bomb?
*mic drop*

Don't forget the cherry flavored Laffy Taffy that he gave a three cherries out of five rating with the cherry emojis during a HUNGRY Sleepless Night With Phil!

(Mind you I can't see him actually doing this on purpose, it's just fun to compile the "evidence". Poor Phil must just really like cherry flavored/scented things.)

Hopefully Dan doesn't end the friendship over Phil's canibalistic thoughts.

We were at a store with a large selection of Haribo and I was very tempted by the Happy Cherries and Phantasia

Thank you to everyone working behind the scenes. I know this must be stressful

[sentinel]

I'm loving all your responses! It's cool that there's a wide range.

I like to think that there's a main timeline, and on that timeline, Dan graduated from university and became a lawyer and he's all like 'what's a meme?' because he's #professional and extremely opinionated and controversial. But we're the little timeline detour. We're the alternate universe. I've always felt like Dan and Phil becoming friends was one of those things that someone up in heaven went out of their way to make happen. It's just such a specific chain of events.

onetruetrash I really liked the 'go out with a bang' concept. I never really thought of that before. I can totally see Dan doing that with his main channel, but then sometimes doing candle hauls or whatever on his side channel. I feel like Phil will just continue on a Jenna Marbles road and do whatever he wants, he's sort of doing that anyway now.

All these recent posts are just making my brain explode with questions. What would it be like if dnp were openly dating other people? If they were openly dating each other? If everything was like it is now but they never moved in together? If dan was making videos but also didn't drop out of uni? If Phil was married? ahhhh

I've thought about that too. Like the stars literally had to align for them to meet. The pure randomness of it all - Phil getting a camera from a cereal, Dan coming across that first video, Phil noticing him commenting and deciding to strike up a conversation exactly with this fan - is just too much. I don't believe in fate, but Dan and Phil make a good case for it existing.

I feel like if we were in the main timeline, Phil would be working in movie editing. I vaguely recall him getting an offer to work with the company that edited The Dark Knight. Imo he wouldn't have continued to grow as much and would have had the type of channel charlieissocoollike, but doing stuff for the BBC, instead of writing books. Dan on the other hand wouldn't have come up north, would be working as a paralegal and would be bored out of his mind, I think. To me it seems inevitable that he would go into the creative industry sooner or later and meet Phil again, just later.

[BSV]

I realised how much i lurk over here when idb is down for a bit! Thanks so much to the mods for doing what they do

When they do decide to leave, I get the feeling they might go out with a bang. I remember I said that before and on Dan's liveshow that day, he said something about if you're leaving, you might as well go out with a bang. I'm pretty sure if Dan and Phil are in a relationship, they will announce it in their last video.

I hope i've done the quote right! This (and all the alternative reality talk) got me thinking about Youtube end game (its probably been discussed many times before! So feel free to ignore!) Marcus mentioned in some recent q+a vid (dont judge me it, i watch his videos very occasionally) that he has no specific end game for Youtube? I thought that was a bit odd to not really have a plan after?

What do people think is Dan and Phil's end game? I like the notion of going out with a bang, but do others think they will just slowly stop making videos? (I'm not really thinking anytime soon but like in 5 ish years? Maybe a whole new generation of fans will be into them? who knows!) What do people think they will/could go on to do after? Its quite exciting to see the potential of where they could go - I kind of see Phil being a uni lecturer on video production way into the future, talking about the 'good old days of Youtube' to the kids who think he's old fashioned but still with that hairstyle

[LtrllySusan]

I've thought about that too. Like the stars literally had to align for them to meet. The pure randomness of it all - Phil getting a camera from a cereal, Dan coming across that first video, Phil noticing him commenting and deciding to strike up a conversation exactly with this fan - is just too much. I don't believe in fate, but Dan and Phil make a good case for it existing.

While I love the cheesy sentiment of fate, aren't all our lives shaped by pretty random decisions? I'd give you examples from my own life but I prefer my anonymity Just think about it though, how'd you decide to study what you study, how did you meet your friends/partner, how'd you end up in that city, etc. The more you trace those decisions back, the more they come down to cameras in cereal boxes and random conversations. Sure, the whole DnP story is wonderful and romantic (insert pink trashcan emoji) but I don't think it's that unusual.

[leaveimreading]

What do people think is Dan and Phil's end game? I like the notion of going out with a bang, but do others think they will just slowly stop making videos? (I'm not really thinking anytime soon but like in 5 ish years? Maybe a whole new generation of fans will be into them? who knows!) What do people think they will/could go on to do after? Its quite exciting to see the potential of where they could go - I kind of see Phil being a uni lecturer on video production way into the future, talking about the 'good old days of Youtube' to the kids who think he's old fashioned but still with that hairstyle

I've definitely imagined Phil using his English degree someday as a uni professor. I personally don't think Phil will continue making videos like he is now after the age of 35, max. He seems like the kind of guy who wants to settle down with kids and *doggo*. Youtube will eventually stop being a career choice. There haven't been any new mainstream youtubers, unless you count the ones from vine, like Thomas Sanders, Liza Koshy, etc. What's gonna happen when Alfie stops doing his daily vlogs and Zoe doesn't do anymore hauls and jim stops making baking videos. The sims series on the gaming channel won't go on forever. Who's going to take over after they're all gone?

Had a little crisis up there^ oops

[mysterylovescompany]

I've thought about that too. Like the stars literally had to align for them to meet. The pure randomness of it all - Phil getting a camera from a cereal, Dan coming across that first video, Phil noticing him commenting and deciding to strike up a conversation exactly with this fan - is just too much. I don't believe in fate, but Dan and Phil make a good case for it existing.

While I love the cheesy sentiment of fate, aren't all our lives shaped by pretty random decisions? I'd give you examples from my own life but I prefer my anonymity Just think about it though, how'd you decide to study what you study, how did you meet your friends/partner, how'd you end up in that city, etc. The more you trace those decisions back, the more they come down to cameras in cereal boxes and random conversations. Sure, the whole DnP story is wonderful and romantic (insert pink trashcan emoji) but I don't think it's that unusual.

All things great are wound up with all things little. I mean, it's a lovely story, and at times seems too far-fetched and romantic, but I definitely see the realism in it as well. The only reason I'm at the uni I'm at and have the friends and opportunities I have is because I just managed to get a good enough mark, which is because I decided to take an extra subject on a whim, which is because I decided to lighten my workload earlier on ... et cetera, et cetera.

I also frequently wonder what will happen when it ends. I think they're more the type to go out with a bang than gradually fade away, but then again I can't see them quitting YT for a little while yet.

[malday]

I think in earlier videos Phil said he would do youtube forever.

[BSV]

What do people think is Dan and Phil's end game? I like the notion of going out with a bang, but do others think they will just slowly stop making videos? (I'm not really thinking anytime soon but like in 5 ish years? Maybe a whole new generation of fans will be into them? who knows!) What do people think they will/could go on to do after? Its quite exciting to see the potential of where they could go - I kind of see Phil being a uni lecturer on video production way into the future, talking about the 'good old days of Youtube' to the kids who think he's old fashioned but still with that hairstyle

I've definitely imagined Phil using his English degree someday as a uni professor. I personally don't think Phil will continue making videos like he is now after the age of 35, max. He seems like the kind of guy who wants to settle down with kids and *doggo*. Youtube will eventually stop being a career choice. There haven't been any new mainstream youtubers, unless you count the ones from vine, like Thomas Sanders, Liza Koshy, etc. What's gonna happen when Alfie stops doing his daily vlogs and Zoe doesn't do anymore hauls and jim stops making baking videos. The sims series on the gaming channel won't go on forever. Who's going to take over after they're all gone?

Had a little crisis up there^ oops

Thanks for your reply i love that you get the Prof. Lester vibe too!
I do kind of wonder about where Alfie can go with vlogging, but i think Zoe, with her beauty and lifestyle range and general interior decorating kinda thing, i wouldn't be surprised if she continued in that vein and set up actual Zoella stores or something? I mean those guys have their fingers in a lot of pies!
Maybe there will be a new wave of Youtubers in 5 years, that are just starting out now that we don't really know anything about? Or Maybe Youtube will have its day and other site with a new kind of media will take over (some kind of VR Augmented reality thing??) and a new wave of creators will then get crazy popular! Ahh the future is scary
Maybe Dan and Phil could set up a creator school of their own and thats where Phil will teach

[iihappydaysii]

I wish we weren't so quick to compare views/popularity with importance. Shane Dawson gets loads of views making his cat tiny pancakes and people like John and Hank Green don't get many views on their main channel, but are doing valuable work and have expanded far beyond the vlogbrothers channel. I don't see Dan and Phil getting into the arena of education and politics but I'd love to see them "expand their empire" and get involved/create some wider bigger things and support new creators. I think they already do some of this with IRL store, but I'd definitely love to see more of it. They're highly respected and I imagine that's only going to become more true as they become even older and more experienced. Even if they're not always front and center in the limelight, it doesn't mean they'll have to go out with a bang or disappear completely, it just means they're career has matured and evolved.

As for them revealing their relationship as a 'go out with a bang', I don't see that happening because I don't see them being like 'ok this is it I'm finished' but a gradual evolution of their careers and mostly I don't think reveal/not reveal has ever been about us. I think they come out as a couple when and only when they believe the stress privacy is putting on the relationship is more than the stress of being public. For me, I think they've stayed closeted to protect their relationship not for their careers or for the mystery or whatever else.