Dan & Phil Part 56: Phanthony! at the Disco

[autumnhearth]

After reading here last night I went to bed hoping that D&P don't lurk here, at least not before a video is posted. If I was Dan and read all the posts yesterday I would be extremely anxious about posting my video. Which is *not* me at all trying to police what people say on a forum made for indepth discussions about all things D&P, this *should* be a safe place to do so and I *do* get the concern. But I guess it is why I felt a need to keep my own post short and omit an "as long as he doesn't..." start with a cocky persona heavy intro.

This recent page has helped me put things into perspective. While I want to echo nihilist-toothpaste and do *feel* similarly (in that it makes me uncomfortable to see a wall of pessimism), I have seen the past doubts and dismissals that captainspacecoat and fancybum mentioned happening *here*, so really the previous sentiments of "I know we'll all be respectful here, it's every other part of fandom I worry about" feel a bit false.

(Of course now I worry I'm just adding to the doom and gloom. Well if anything, I think this just proves that we are his target audience, we're all a bit anxious. Is a laughing emoji appropriate here? I dunno.)

Positive note: I am *really* looking forward to this video, whether it's posted today or tomorrow. I think it's also a really good sign that he wants to do a liveshow the next day. I don't see it as "damage control" at all, but an eagerness to discuss, connect and provide more context and perhaps more personal thoughts and experiences than he may share in the video. That is really promising to me.

Great, freaking top of the page. I hope I'm at least "ar-tic-u-late".

[Catallena]

Right.. I might actually stay away from any video discussion today. Already just not feeling it. I might say some stuff on Twitter and let that be it this time. I'm busy with other things today anyway.

[dae]

Not gonna lie im feeling extremely uneasy about this whole situation.

(maybe its just the fact that I started my period and fuckincramps man )

honestly I just have a bad feeling that people are gonna go hella after dan and its going to really bad im just really not excited for drama im trying to have hope in dan though and honestly I do believe he's going to do good but im still worried.

also side note

I havent had a phone for an entire month and I haven't had wifi FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR its okay because I have unlimited 4g data anyway point is if im lucky i'll have a phone by upload time and will get to see shit go down live

[alittledizzy]

I think most people are just feeling protective of Dan and want this video to be a positive experience for him. The repetition that critique will be from people who 'just want to complain' stems mostly from the fact that perspectives don't mesh up; what resonates (badly) with one person might not with another and it's often hard to step outside of yourself and realize why the other person is reacting poorly if it doesn't bother you yourself.

This forum will never be a place that is nothing but positivity for Dan and Phil. There are far too many different voices with different perspectives who bring their own history and projections into the conversation. I don't think it's false to say that 'we'll all be respectful here' because I think it is very possible to say "I don't like this, here's why" while still trying to be respectful. And as sort of a counterpoint to that, it's also true that even if someone is respectful that doesn't mean I won't be bothered by their opinion if I disagree with it and it feels personal to me.

Anyway tl;dr to say we all seem to be coming from a place of rooting for Dan right now, and we're all on edge with that same hope: that the video is good, that people like it, that Dan feels satisfied by the result and how it's received.

[rizzo]

I have faith in Dan to do one of 2 things:

• Make a good, solid video with the help of a professional and/or professional references.
• Not post the video at all, because if ever a video needed him to be extra critical, it's this one.

And if it's the second, that's perfectly fine. If he does post a video, there will probably be unhappy people. But that happens with literally every video, so it is what it is. At the end of the day, he's not going to make a video with malicious intent and it's probably giving him a lot of internal anxiety to make/post it in the first place.

His biggest mistake (as usual) was telling us about it in the first place. Otherwise, I'll be content in whatever we get with the understanding that he tried his best.

[George]

I just hope Dan doesn't feel too much pressure to make this video perfect after seeing how everyone's reacting so strong just to an announcement of it. It's almost like what he was afraid of, and we haven't even seen the video yet!

[onceinaugust]

I think what I'm just hoping for is a mention of a "your mileage may vary" type of statement, and acknowledging every disease has a spectrum of severity. On both Dan and the viewers part, there just needs to be an assumption that anything he says won't apply to everyone, as everyone experiences mental health problems differently. That was one of the problems I had when people were refuting Dan saying he is agoraphobic because he does still go outside. Many people can function with agoraphobia- not everyone is a character in a movie that is housebound and refuses to go outside at all. Obviously people that experience a more severe form of anxiety/agoraphobia may feel that he's making light of it because he does still do a lot of things out of the house while they are unable to, but there needs to be a trust that he can't experience what they do, or cover every persons reality.

[malday]

I have faith in Dan to do one of 2 things:

• Make a good, solid video with the help of a professional and/or professional references.
• Not post the video at all, because if ever a video needed him to be extra critical, it's this one.

And if it's the second, that's perfectly fine. If he does post a video, there will probably be unhappy people. But that happens with literally every video, so it is what it is. At the end of the day, he's not going to make a video with malicious intent and it's probably giving him a lot of internal anxiety to make/post it in the first place.

His biggest mistake (as usual) was telling us about it in the first place. Otherwise, I'll be content in whatever we get with the understanding that he tried his best.

I think this time it's good that he talked about it in advance because it showed people he is giving the subject careful consideration and it's something he feels strongly about making.
He also seemed aware of the potential criticism he might get, and doing a liveshow right after probably means he anticipates the discussion it will cause and is prepared to tackle it.

Like always discussion will happen and it will die down and then people will move on, and he can do a lighthearted video right after. It would be worse if people were apathetic about this subject imo.

[nihilist-toothpaste]

In the aftermath of Dan's uni video, there was a lengthy discussion on this forum about whether or not he had the right to use that word, questioning whether he could possibly have actual experience with agoraphobia based on the fact that he does go outside, making assumptions about his motivations and suggesting that he had misused the term and appropriated a mental illness for comedic effect.

While I sympathise with those criticisms, in so far as I understand how sensitive the topic of mental illness is and I think it's totally fair to be wary of mentally healthy people coopting or trivialising serious mental illnesses, they ultimately bothered me as I don't think there's any reason to believe Dan is anything but sincere when he talks about his experience with agoraphobia and social anxiety. I'm not worried about the video itself, but moreso the discourse that does have the potential to arise in its aftermath.

My pessimism has literally nothing to do with how Dan will do the video, I don't doubt his intention or ability on any level, the pessimism is all about the audience reaction. If you're lucky enough to have missed all the conversations on mental health that have happened here (because I don't know/care what's going on on tumblr) about how Dan isn't allowed to say anything, or shouldn't have said anything, or is lying, or doesn't understand the words he's using because x y z, then consider yourself lucky. But they've happened enough times, and have been frustrating enough each time, to make me preemptively tense about them happening again, no matter what Dan says in the video or how he says it.

thanks fancybum and captainspacecoat for these explanations. i just want to clarify that i didn't suggest in my original post that anyone's nervousness had anything to do with dan's ability or lack thereof to make this video. it felt like most people's nervousness (at least that was expressed here) was about fandom's reaction. i really appreciated both of your posts bc i guess i didnt fully have this context about how the conversation went on idb, and i certainly did not experience discussion like this, with an apparently equally vocal minority wanting to discredit dan's usage of the word agoraphobia, on other fandom platforms. and because previous posters were more intensely referring to other platforms when talking about critical voices who want to hate dan for the sake of it, and not limiting their assessment to idb, i did care about how the trepidation was aimed at fandom locations outside of idb, even if you don't fancybum.

i hope those discussions happened here bc of dan using that term with little explanation or context, and that a full-fledged video on the topic of mental health, regardless of how personal it ultimately is, wouldn't be met with the same wave of questioning. and while argumentation along the lines of 'he's rich so he can't have MI' is intrinsically absurd (and i hope that assertion really was in the extreme minority), i do want to optimistically hope that maybe fellow agoraphobia-sufferers were only so critical of his use of the term because he used it somewhat in passing, with little context, causing them to question how his experiences seem not to match their own (and that is valid to me, while blatant criticism or hatred of dan is obviously not).

while someone who suffers from MI should not ever have to provide a full medical history or 'proof' of their neurodivergence in order to speak about their experiences with it, i do hope that his approaching the topic in a fuller and more fleshed out way will quiet people's worries about him possibly co-opting mental illness for ... what was it? attention monetary gain? how did anyone make that argument when he said this stuff in a live show setting? in any case, i think you would seriously have to hate dan or think him capable of the lowest of low forms of exploitation if you thought he'd fake illness in order to make a whole main channel video, which is obviously such astronomically different stakes than making a passing comment or two in a live show. and as i said in my original post i'm sure there are people out there who do just hate dan and think him incapable from the get go of dealing with this topic, but those voices surely don't matter in comparison to all the people who don't feel that way and want him to succeed with this. but again, maybe i am naive, and cautiously optimistic bc i havent been burned or personally worn down by experiencing intense debate on this topic before.

ablissa, i also want to thank you so much for clarifying your tumblr post! i hope it didn't feel like i was in any way criticizing your sentiment (of course people should try to treat each other and dan with kindness). i was just showing it as an example of how the majority of people seemed to be positive and compassionate at dan since he tweeted yesterday, even quite passionately and loudly so, and yours is a great example of that.

also i think someone brought up that most people are actually concerned about casual viewers not core fans? i didn't get that feeling from the discussion above but if that's the case then it makes more sense to me, as i'm sure there are individuals who troll youtube just to discredit anyone talking about mental illness. but again, i do feel like such voices would be greatly overshadowed and drowned out by the number of people who want to support dan.

but who knows. dizzy i really, really appreciated your post, especially this part:

I don't think it's false to say that 'we'll all be respectful here' because I think it is very possible to say "I don't like this, here's why" while still trying to be respectful. And as sort of a counterpoint to that, it's also true that even if someone is respectful that doesn't mean I won't be bothered by their opinion if I disagree with it and it feels personal to me.

Anyway tl;dr to say we all seem to be coming from a place of rooting for Dan right now, and we're all on edge with that same hope: that the video is good, that people like it, that Dan feels satisfied by the result and how it's received.

i agree that everyone's anxieties seem to be coming from a really deeply felt desire to see dan's video succeed (and i guess that was mostly the point i wanted to make in the first place: that most people have been vocal about wanting it to succeed, most people tend to support and protect dan when he comes forward with personal things like this.) but thanks so much to everyone who bothered writing out a response to my rambles and helping me to understand your fears! x

[feenix]

(Very) long time lurker, second(?) (edit: apparently first, I must be thinking of the errr other older site) time poster. Sorry that this is off topic but a certain something just arrived in the store I work at. I've heard absolutely nothing about this yet so I thought I'd share with you guys! Please let me know if I'm late to the game!

I remember the speculation that went down when that First Dates game appeared in the background of Dan's live stream. At least one person theorised a potential partnership between the boys and Big Potato Games, and I'm pRETTY SURE y'all were correct!

[contents edited at poster's request]

I may have bought it...

[onceinaugust]

(Very) long time lurker, second(?) (edit: apparently first, I must be thinking of the errr other older site) time poster. Sorry that this is off topic but a certain something just arrived in the store I work at. I've heard absolutely nothing about this yet so I thought I'd share with you guys! Please let me know if I'm late to the game!

I remember the speculation that went down when that First Dates game appeared in the background of Dan's live stream. At least one person theorised a potential partnership between the boys and Big Potato Games, and I'm pRETTY SURE y'all were correct!

[contents edited at poster's request]

I may have bought it...

Whoa. I'm surprised they let it get to a store without any kind of hint that it was on it's way (unless this is something to do with the week in March)

[LtrllySusan]

All I am thinking is what is that god awful photoshop polaroid and did they mean to write "fiends" - shouldn't it be "friends"? (or is that some slang I am not aware of?)

Edit: I remember Dan saying that there was something in February that they worked on that we might or might not see. Could this be it?

[alittledizzy]

Oooh interesting - if you google it, there's an amazon link that doesn't work but if you cache the link you get this:



Which says release date is Oct 19.

[feenix]

Whoa. I'm surprised they let it get to a store without any kind of hint that it was on it's way (unless this is something to do with the week in March)

That's what I thought.

I'm almost certain they'll be playing or announcing this on one of their channels at some point. Inside the instructions there's a YouTube logo that tells you to search for "how to play Truth Bombs" for a demonstration.

[LtrllySusan]

I am sorry for the (almost) double post - what are the chances they are playing this with Louise in the collab (the collab for their channels, not hers)? Which is why Dan didn't go into detail when talking about the video. And that might be why the baby stuff video for her channel is coming so late.

I do feel a bit bad that the game leaked (not feenix' fault, of course; I see the fault with the distributer). I guess they had a nice announcement schedule coming up after Dan's next vid but this might shake up their plans a bit.

[Lain]

Oooh interesting - if you google it, there's an amazon link that doesn't work but if you cache the link you get this:



Which says release date is Oct 19.

The 19th.

I don't have many party games in my collection, but I'll probably have a hard time resisting whatever the hell this "explosively honest" game is.

[parallel]

(Very) long time lurker, second(?) (edit: apparently first, I must be thinking of the errr other older site) time poster. Sorry that this is off topic but a certain something just arrived in the store I work at. I've heard absolutely nothing about this yet so I thought I'd share with you guys! Please let me know if I'm late to the game!

I remember the speculation that went down when that First Dates game appeared in the background of Dan's live stream. At least one person theorised a potential partnership between the boys and Big Potato Games, and I'm pRETTY SURE y'all were correct!

[contents edited at poster's request]

I may have bought it...

Woah, what? That's so cool! I wanna go to Waterstones now to see if they have it And release date Oct 19? Agh. This may be related to "that week in March" but my gut says no because I still feel TWIM is related to personal issues (and if it was something like a game, they'd have a concrete release date in mind). Maybe IDB could host some sort of online round of this game once it's out?

[Lain]

Oooh interesting - if you google it, there's an amazon link that doesn't work but if you cache the link you get this:



Which says release date is Oct 19.

The 19th.

I don't have many party games in my collection, but I'll probably have a hard time resisting whatever the hell this "explosively honest" game is.

[malday]

All I am thinking is what is that god awful photoshop polaroid and did they mean to write "fiends" - shouldn't it be "friends"? (or is that some slang I am not aware of?)

Edit: I remember Dan saying that there was something in February that they worked on that we might or might not see. Could this be it?

I also think this is the February thing.

(Very) long time lurker, second(?) (edit: apparently first, I must be thinking of the errr other older site) time poster. Sorry that this is off topic but a certain something just arrived in the store I work at. I've heard absolutely nothing about this yet so I thought I'd share with you guys! Please let me know if I'm late to the game!

I remember the speculation that went down when that First Dates game appeared in the background of Dan's live stream. At least one person theorised a potential partnership between the boys and Big Potato Games, and I'm pRETTY SURE y'all were correct!

[contents edited at poster's request]

I may have bought it...

Are you sure you don't work in marketing or something, this is a nice way to cause hype for the game. j/k

[DatCog]

(Very) long time lurker, second(?) (edit: apparently first, I must be thinking of the errr other older site) time poster. Sorry that this is off topic but a certain something just arrived in the store I work at. I've heard absolutely nothing about this yet so I thought I'd share with you guys! Please let me know if I'm late to the game!

I remember the speculation that went down when that First Dates game appeared in the background of Dan's live stream. At least one person theorised a potential partnership between the boys and Big Potato Games, and I'm pRETTY SURE y'all were correct!

[contents edited at poster's request]

I may have bought it...

Ooooh how interesting! Maybe we'll finally get a DAPG board game edition video, although I'd imagine they'll need some extra people to play it properly if it's being marketed as a party game!

[feenix]

I do feel a bit bad that the game leaked (not feenix' fault, of course; I see the fault with the distributer). I guess they had a nice announcement schedule coming up after Dan's next vid but this might shake up their plans a bit.

Yeah I feel a bit bad for spoiling it, but I couldn't keep it to myself! I checked to see if it was on the embargo list to keep hidden until the release date, but it wasn't.

Are you sure you don't work in marketing or something, this is a nice way to cause hype for the game. j/k

Don't blow my cover!!

[alittledizzy]

(Very) long time lurker, second(?) (edit: apparently first, I must be thinking of the errr other older site) time poster. Sorry that this is off topic but a certain something just arrived in the store I work at. I've heard absolutely nothing about this yet so I thought I'd share with you guys! Please let me know if I'm late to the game!

I remember the speculation that went down when that First Dates game appeared in the background of Dan's live stream. At least one person theorised a potential partnership between the boys and Big Potato Games, and I'm pRETTY SURE y'all were correct!

[contents edited at poster's request]

I may have bought it...

Ooooh how interesting! Maybe we'll finally get a DAPG board game edition video, although I'd imagine they'll need some extra people to play it properly if it's being marketed as a party game!

Can I volunteer Martyn and Cornelia? Bc a board game night type video with the four of them would actually be amazing.

[DatCog]

(Very) long time lurker, second(?) (edit: apparently first, I must be thinking of the errr other older site) time poster. Sorry that this is off topic but a certain something just arrived in the store I work at. I've heard absolutely nothing about this yet so I thought I'd share with you guys! Please let me know if I'm late to the game!

I remember the speculation that went down when that First Dates game appeared in the background of Dan's live stream. At least one person theorised a potential partnership between the boys and Big Potato Games, and I'm pRETTY SURE y'all were correct!

[contents edited at poster's request]

I may have bought it...

Ooooh how interesting! Maybe we'll finally get a DAPG board game edition video, although I'd imagine they'll need some extra people to play it properly if it's being marketed as a party game!

Can I volunteer Martyn and Cornelia? Bc a board game night type video with the four of them would actually be amazing.

YES!!!! How amazing would that be!! I'd love it to be Bryony and Wirrow too but they've probably already tested it with them in private and they wouldn't want to be involved in a video.

[malday]

Ooooh how interesting! Maybe we'll finally get a DAPG board game edition video, although I'd imagine they'll need some extra people to play it properly if it's being marketed as a party game!

Can I volunteer Martyn and Cornelia? Bc a board game night type video with the four of them would actually be amazing.

YES!!!! How amazing would that be!! I'd love it to be Bryony and Wirrow too but they've probably already tested it with them in private and they wouldn't want to be involved in a video.

Maybe this was the card game(is it a card game?) that could be seen in the reflection of Phil's picture !? alittledizzy you were right!

[000dia000]

Prior to reading a lot of the responses that speculated hypothetical situations where Dan would get backlash, I too felt indignant and would be defensive if he did face any negativity. However, the sheer level of defense (mostly on tumblr) about someone attacking their fav does make me wary. I think, even if Dan fucks the video up entirely (as if) there is still bound to be people defending him. Basically, what I'm saying, is that I believe the amount of people believing there is negative backlash, seriously outnumbers the amount that there probably will be. It will probably make the phandom annoying for a while. You know how intensive it can get? I hope I'm not the only one annoyed at times, but it's still a serious discussion for some so *grumble grumble*

Regardless, I think Dan doing this video has more positives than any possible negatives. He is known for his relatability after all, so might break through to a lot of viewers. I'm intrigued of he'll add any personal experiences or views, or whether it would be gross to assume so. I don't know what to expect, but I do think that a mental health video was, ultimately, necessary for Dan to make. Due to the way he turned existentialism into a joke, and all the off-hand remarks about a lack of social life, anxiety, and basically any "dark", stuff he has alluded to. With this, he can clarify himself, he has opportunity to correct himself in anyway he hasn't been able.

I'm not sure whether this will be an "enjoyable" video. In that I doubt people will actually discuss the content and will more so dwell on the reaction, any personal information, and further speculation on his life/phan. I doubt people will actually come back here and say. "He made a good point on this thing...!!!" But I don't think people really do very much, as it is. I think Dan is aware of this, he probably won't try to make some accurate or bring up good "points". I think he will focus on trying to make it meaningful and empathetic, then urge people to seek help with professionals. Then he will probably link towards the charity he tweeted yesterday. He'll also wear a yellow t shirt, probably. There won't be much wiggle room for any jokes/skits because it might come off in poor taste.

Anyway. I can't see the pics for a board game but I'm intrigued what it might be. I don't even know the content but I just hope the game pieces are little pieces of cereal, whatever it is. And for feenix you're secretly Dan, aren't you?