Dan & Phil Part 59: the literal other half

[dancy]

Pretty sure he's in London

[liola]

Is this the real Phil rebranding? Skipping the annual Florida vacation? I can't believe it

[sunshinias]

Off-topic but are we going to have another IDB survey soon? I was reading the old threads and I noticed that the last one was posted around this time.

[anathema]

Hey so I didn't see anyone post about this anywhere because I'm not sure many people realize but I think D&P have switched talent agencies. Sort of.
So yesterday I realized that on ap, dinof (ik it's technically not that anymore but I'm still calling it that it's easier), and dapg, the business inquiries email had changed to an email at "abovetf.com". On the website there's pretty much no info, but it says it's a fully independent talent agency. If you search for it at all, nothing related to it comes up. Well, the awesome dizzy figured out that the full agency name is "above the fray" (which still no related searches come up for,) and that it was registered as a company in the end of October. 3 out of the 4 shareholders are from Flipside (D&P's old agency), one of which includes their manager. There's a chance that abovetf is a division of flipside but personally I don't think it is. Flipside has said nothing about it, and the company it's apart of hasn't said anything either. On top of that, abovetf says it is "fully independent" so I don't think it's attached to anything.
D&P are still listed as talent on flipside's website, but it looks like it hasn't been updated in almost a year. (It still says dapgo "will be released in November 2016.") The only channel of D&P's that still has a flipside email listed is danisnotinteresting, but Dan also still has dinof (rather than daniel howell) listed as his main channel in the channel description.

So yeah that's about it, not super exciting but just something I realized and saw no one else had talked about it.

[alittledizzy]

Hey so I didn't see anyone post about this anywhere because I'm not sure many people realize but I think D&P have switched talent agencies. Sort of.
So yesterday I realized that on ap, dinof (ik it's technically not that anymore but I'm still calling it that it's easier), and dapg, the business inquiries email had changed to an email at "abovetf.com". On the website there's pretty much no info, but it says it's a fully independent talent agency. If you search for it at all, nothing related to it comes up. Well, the awesome dizzy figured out that the full agency name is "above the fray" (which still no related searches come up for,) and that it was registered as a company in the end of October. 3 out of the 4 shareholders are from Flipside (D&P's old agency), one of which includes their manager. There's a chance that abovetf is a division of flipside but personally I don't think it is. Flipside has said nothing about it, and the company it's apart of hasn't said anything either. On top of that, abovetf says it is "fully independent" so I don't think it's attached to anything.
D&P are still listed as talent on flipside's website, but it looks like it hasn't been updated in almost a year. (It still says dapgo "will be released in November 2016.") The only channel of D&P's that still has a flipside email listed is danisnotinteresting, but Dan also still has dinof (rather than daniel howell) listed as his main channel in the channel description.

So yeah that's about it, not super exciting but just something I realized and saw no one else had talked about it.

I don't know much about businesses and how this works, but would they make an entire new company registered completely by itself as a division of Flipside? Is there any way to tell if that's what's happening based on public record available online?

It looks like a lot of the other Flipside talent has also changed their email addresses on youtube to abovetf - including Tomska. (It might be all of them, I just didn't have the patience to look so I spot checked.)

[rizzo]

Hey so I didn't see anyone post about this anywhere because I'm not sure many people realize but I think D&P have switched talent agencies. Sort of.
So yesterday I realized that on ap, dinof (ik it's technically not that anymore but I'm still calling it that it's easier), and dapg, the business inquiries email had changed to an email at "abovetf.com". On the website there's pretty much no info, but it says it's a fully independent talent agency. If you search for it at all, nothing related to it comes up. Well, the awesome dizzy figured out that the full agency name is "above the fray" (which still no related searches come up for,) and that it was registered as a company in the end of October. 3 out of the 4 shareholders are from Flipside (D&P's old agency), one of which includes their manager. There's a chance that abovetf is a division of flipside but personally I don't think it is. Flipside has said nothing about it, and the company it's apart of hasn't said anything either. On top of that, abovetf says it is "fully independent" so I don't think it's attached to anything.
D&P are still listed as talent on flipside's website, but it looks like it hasn't been updated in almost a year. (It still says dapgo "will be released in November 2016.") The only channel of D&P's that still has a flipside email listed is danisnotinteresting, but Dan also still has dinof (rather than daniel howell) listed as his main channel in the channel description.

So yeah that's about it, not super exciting but just something I realized and saw no one else had talked about it.

!!!

This is very interesting and has me wondering a few things:

• What happened? What's the drama? I'm gonna need Dan or Tomska (who seems to have also made the move) to spill!
• I'm assuming, perhaps naively, that the managers left and took their people with them, in which case... I wonder what convinced them. A good relationship can only go so far (I mean.. it'll go pretty far, but ya know). Do D&P get more money out of this?
• Maybe ChannelFlip's downfall resulted in some frustrated execs wanting a bigger bite out of Flipside?
• How will this affect D&P's content, if at all? Will they talk about it?

Curious to watch them grow tbh...

[obvsly]

Yep I saw the other day that tomska is also with above the fray, but I didn’t notice the email change in dnp’s channels at all so kudos to those who did.

Now I wonder if this has something to do with the fact that joe and caspar also just left gleam? And louise tweeted about no more wasting energy on things and projects that don’t bring joy? (Her address is still gleam futures though.) I don’t know what to feel about all this yet.

[tacitus]

Don't think this adds anything to the discussion, but I found out that the webpage of the company has been operating since at least July of 2016!

[obvsly]

Safiya gave a really quick mention of Phil as one of the inspirations for her latest video. He also commented on it
but I don’t know how to copy that.

Sorry for deviating from the new management discussion a bit. Just wanna say thanks to lilabet who put Safiya's video here. I checked it out and was captivated from start to finish. She's really a joy to watch and I'd really love to see her collab with Phil as well. I looked through her channel and was like, Wow.. she's got a lot views comparing to her subscriber number, huh? The video that lilabet linked to was posted 1 day ago and already has 2.4 m views. That's much better than dnp both. Other videos of hers seem to be doing just as well.

I mean Safiya totally deserves all the views but I'm just wondering if YouTube's new way of determining views affects dnp that much, or if their popularity is really significantly diminishing.

[dancy]

Hmm strange. I did check Flipside's Twitter page and saw that they had retweeted D&P's HelloYellow selfies in early October, so it was at least still active at that point. I can't find Flipside Talent on Companies House (I assume it was there before) and noticed that all of their office addresses (besides IRL Digital) are the same address as Above The Fray.

I don't know what exactly that all means but I kinda doubt D&P will discuss it. Have they talked about their management in depth before during a live show? (I wouldn't know because I haven't seen most of the live shows from before 2017.)

And regarding Youtube, what is their new of determining views?

[blackdenim]

FlipSide is a part of the Endemol group (a production company that does loads of stuff including Big Brother in the UK) so maybe what's happened is they've split off from Endemol (hence the 'fully independent'), taking all the talent with them, and therefore had to change their name?

Also off topic but I didn't realise Joe and Casper had left Gleam! That's interesting, I thought all that lot would be tied to them forever! I wonder if Zoe and Alfie would ever leave.

And also to the person who just discovered Saf, watch the rest of her vids - you're in for a treat! She's my fave YTer after D&P, I really want her to collab with Phil!

[citizen_erased]

Hey so I didn't see anyone post about this anywhere because I'm not sure many people realize but I think D&P have switched talent agencies. Sort of.
So yesterday I realized that on ap, dinof (ik it's technically not that anymore but I'm still calling it that it's easier), and dapg, the business inquiries email had changed to an email at "abovetf.com". On the website there's pretty much no info, but it says it's a fully independent talent agency. If you search for it at all, nothing related to it comes up. Well, the awesome dizzy figured out that the full agency name is "above the fray" (which still no related searches come up for,) and that it was registered as a company in the end of October. 3 out of the 4 shareholders are from Flipside (D&P's old agency), one of which includes their manager. There's a chance that abovetf is a division of flipside but personally I don't think it is. Flipside has said nothing about it, and the company it's apart of hasn't said anything either. On top of that, abovetf says it is "fully independent" so I don't think it's attached to anything.
D&P are still listed as talent on flipside's website, but it looks like it hasn't been updated in almost a year. (It still says dapgo "will be released in November 2016.") The only channel of D&P's that still has a flipside email listed is danisnotinteresting, but Dan also still has dinof (rather than daniel howell) listed as his main channel in the channel description.

So yeah that's about it, not super exciting but just something I realized and saw no one else had talked about it.

I don't know much about businesses and how this works, but would they make an entire new company registered completely by itself as a division of Flipside? Is there any way to tell if that's what's happening based on public record available online?

It looks like a lot of the other Flipside talent has also changed their email addresses on youtube to abovetf - including Tomska. (It might be all of them, I just didn't have the patience to look so I spot checked.)

Could it be Flipside themselves that are going independent and/or rebranding? Is that even possible?

[goldenmermaid]

FlipSide is a part of the Endemol group (a production company that does loads of stuff including Big Brother in the UK) so maybe what's happened is they've split off from Endemol (hence the 'fully independent'), taking all the talent with them, and therefore had to change their name?

Also off topic but I didn't realise Joe and Casper had left Gleam! That's interesting, I thought all that lot would be tied to them forever! I wonder if Zoe and Alfie would ever leave.

Alfie's picture is no longer on the Gleam website so he may be leaving as well!

[blackdenim]

Could it be Flipside themselves that are going independent and/or rebranding? Is that even possible?

Yes that's kind of what I meant too - the directors could have bought the company out from Endemol if they wanted more freedom, and have to change the name as part of the deal maybe?

Alfie's picture is no longer on the Gleam website so he may be leaving as well!

Interesting!! I wonder if they've got big plans.

[Loafer]

Safiya gave a really quick mention of Phil as one of the inspirations for her latest video. He also commented on it
but I don’t know how to copy that.

Sorry for deviating from the new management discussion a bit. Just wanna say thanks to lilabet who put Safiya's video here. I checked it out and was captivated from start to finish. She's really a joy to watch and I'd really love to see her collab with Phil as well. I looked through her channel and was like, Wow.. she's got a lot views comparing to her subscriber number, huh? The video that lilabet linked to was posted 1 day ago and already has 2.4 m views. That's much better than dnp both. Other videos of hers seem to be doing just as well.

I mean Safiya totally deserves all the views but I'm just wondering if YouTube's new way of determining views affects dnp that much, or if their popularity is really significantly diminishing.

Just FYI for those not familiar with her, Safiya used to work for buzzfeed and was arguably the most popular member of the “Ladylike” series, so she had a large audience before she left buzzfeed. Her videos definitely deserve the views, and she seems to do better than other ex-buzzfeed creators, but she still had a leg up on audience. DnP obviously do well and have a huge audience, but her videos have the general appeal that will get her views from people who haven’t heard of her, while dnps content is a bit more niche, or might not seem interesting unless you were already a fan of theirs.

[liola]

Could it be Flipside themselves that are going independent and/or rebranding? Is that even possible?

Yes that's kind of what I meant too - the directors could have bought the company out from Endemol if they wanted more freedom, and have to change the name as part of the deal maybe?

Alfie's picture is no longer on the Gleam website so he may be leaving as well!

Interesting!! I wonder if they've got big plans.

I think that's what happened, aka the director and talent managers split to be independent. The rebranding might just be to completely distance from Endemol.

About the Gleam situation, I watch Alfie's vlogs and he's been talking about starting a new company for a while. He made the mercy company last year and got a few gleamers in it, so I wonder if he decided to branch out and made his own talent agency? He seems to enjoy the director part more than the creating side tbh, and I'm sure he has enough contacts to make it happen

[alch]

FlipSide is a part of the Endemol group (a production company that does loads of stuff including Big Brother in the UK) so maybe what's happened is they've split off from Endemol (hence the 'fully independent'), taking all the talent with them, and therefore had to change their name?

Also off topic but I didn't realise Joe and Casper had left Gleam! That's interesting, I thought all that lot would be tied to them forever! I wonder if Zoe and Alfie would ever leave.

Alfie's picture is no longer on the Gleam website so he may be leaving as well!

Yeah, that was my first thought, that this was essentially a new version of FlipSide.

Also, what's up with Gleam?
(And why is Alfie leaving without Zoe?)

[blackdenim]

Could it be Flipside themselves that are going independent and/or rebranding? Is that even possible?

Yes that's kind of what I meant too - the directors could have bought the company out from Endemol if they wanted more freedom, and have to change the name as part of the deal maybe?

Alfie's picture is no longer on the Gleam website so he may be leaving as well!

Interesting!! I wonder if they've got big plans.

I think that's what happened, aka the director and talent managers split to be independent. The rebranding might just be to completely distance from Endemol.

About the Gleam situation, I watch Alfie's vlogs and he's been talking about starting a new company for a while. He made the mercy company last year and got a few gleamers in it, so I wonder if he decided to branch out and made his own talent agency? He seems to enjoy the director part more than the creating side tbh, and I'm sure he has enough contacts to make it happen

Good on him to be fair! I bet Gleam was taking a big cut and I've thought for ages some of those big YTers could branch out and start their own agency - even if it wasn't talent management it could be influencer marketing (I think Casper is doing something like that actually) or even mentoring up and coming YTers in some way.

And to keep this on-topic, I wonder if D&P would ever venture out on their own or if they prefer being 'managed'.

[LtrllySusan]

What is it that Flipside is/was doing for them? I assume organisation and negotiation of event attendance and spons?

[DatCog]

Louise talks about Gleam in this video with Jim Chapman (link should take you to relevant bit):

https://youtu.be/_ec2cKFDA0s?t=7m12s

She basically says that Gleam take 20% of their brand deals/work offers etc. I'd guess Flipside are very similar.

[dancy]

Safiya gave a really quick mention of Phil as one of the inspirations for her latest video. He also commented on it
but I don’t know how to copy that.

Sorry for deviating from the new management discussion a bit. Just wanna say thanks to lilabet who put Safiya's video here. I checked it out and was captivated from start to finish. She's really a joy to watch and I'd really love to see her collab with Phil as well. I looked through her channel and was like, Wow.. she's got a lot views comparing to her subscriber number, huh? The video that lilabet linked to was posted 1 day ago and already has 2.4 m views. That's much better than dnp both. Other videos of hers seem to be doing just as well.

I mean Safiya totally deserves all the views but I'm just wondering if YouTube's new way of determining views affects dnp that much, or if their popularity is really significantly diminishing.

Just FYI for those not familiar with her, Safiya used to work for buzzfeed and was arguably the most popular member of the “Ladylike” series, so she had a large audience before she left buzzfeed. Her videos definitely deserve the views, and she seems to do better than other ex-buzzfeed creators, but she still had a leg up on audience. DnP obviously do well and have a huge audience, but her videos have the general appeal that will get her views from people who haven’t heard of her, while dnps content is a bit more niche, or might not seem interesting unless you were already a fan of theirs.

Agreed, Safiya is lovely and her videos are entertaining and just...easy to watch (for lack of a better term). She definitely seems to have a larger viewership as opposed to D&P, who have one of the biggest fandoms when it comes to Youtubers (along with Jacksepticeye and Markiplier).

There's obviously a difference between "viewership" and "fandom" and they don't always go hand-in-hand. Fandoms create fan art, fan fics, social media accounts, forums etc. dedicated to whoever/whatever it is they're a fan of and are interested in their lives. It goes beyond simply liking someone and enjoying their videos.

However, the fact that they don't upload videos frequently doesn't work in their favour and while videos like their most recent ones (Halloween Baking & Dan and Phil and Dogs) are treats for those of us who are really into D&P, I can see why people who've never watched them or even casual viewers wouldn't be interested in such videos.

[alittledizzy]

The team that operates with talent and management deciding to split off from Flipside and taking all the talent with them does make a lot of sense. I guess we'll see if Flipside ever updates their website to actually tell? I wonder if this was a good chance for Dan and Phil to renegotiate - if they did have to resign somewhere new that would have been a good time for a clean break if they weren't happy with how much management was taking. This is such a weird topic to speculate on - Dan and Phil really never give us a look at that side of things. Gleam was always a presence in Gleamer videos if you watched long enough, they introduced their managers on screen and would pop around to the offices and talk about Dom and be fairly open about the whole process.

[allsaintshowell]

the two directors registered with above the fray are the two managing directors (fleur brooklin smith and mike cook) listed on flipside's website, and marianne is one of the four main shareholders (along with fleur, mike, and a man named george anthony jeffery who is currently the director of "jeffrey media services limited"). i'm going to go with the theory that fleur, mike, and marianne decided to split off from flipside and create their own talent agency, and this george anthony guy provides capital or assistance.

[Kimship]

In TomSka's latest Last Week he and his friends play Truth Bombs (@7:50). He then has a quick and interesting talk about his income and how money relates to a viewer's relationship with a youtuber.

[LtrllySusan]

In TomSka's latest Last Week he and his friends play Truth Bombs (@7:50). He then has a quick and interesting talk about his income and how money relates to a viewer's relationship with a youtuber.

That was really interesting! I don't watch Tom but I appreciate his honesty and transparency in the clips that I've seen here and there.