Dan & Phil Part 60: Lady Door Tour

[autumnhearth]

I really did miss Dan’s progressive waffling.

That does sound like a very busy weekend... and I wondered if he was maybe overestimating, but we’ll see. I’m guessing this might be Phil’s granfather’s big birthday party.

Uh yeah... I don’t have an exact quote but Dan mentioned life plans? Or where he thought his life would be heading (with regard for not touring every two years) and it does sound like they will not be traveling professionally anymore after this and well... I just got strong settling down vibes after 2018 (whether that means adopting a dog, getting that forever home, starting a family or maybe their careers taking a more concrete, local... schedule) just yeah.

Edit- Found a quote on Tumblr:

“The thing is… TATINOF was supposed to be THE Dan and Phil Tour. Me thinking about my life and what I want to do and what my plans are, I never thought oh, yeah, and then me and Phil will do tours every two years. No. You know, TATINOF was supposed to be the be all and end all self-defining thing but you know for reasons we’ve expressed before we were like well we have to do another one and it would be good. So… this is it. I mean, I can’t see a crystal ball but if you want to see Phil and I in real life, I can’t imagine there will be another chance ever again.”

So happy to have Gamingmas confirmed, though he just didn’t get that holiday vlog question did he?

Very hyped for PINOF. Good liveshow.

Lol love the juxtaposition of his hand gesture and the message in the screen show malday.

[alittledizzy]

“The thing is… TATINOF was supposed to be THE Dan and Phil Tour. Me thinking about my life and what I want to do and what my plans are, I never thought oh, yeah, and then me and Phil will do tours every two years. No. You know, TATINOF was supposed to be the be all and end all self-defining thing but you know for reasons we’ve expressed before we were like well we have to do another one and it would be good. So… this is it. I mean, I can’t see a crystal ball but if you want to see Phil and I in real life, I can’t imagine there will be another chance ever again."

How he phrased that is really interesting. My gut feeling was that he meant there wouldn't be another chance to see them in remote cities around the world; I kind of assume after next year they go back to convention appearances as normal. But he didn't word it specifically in that way, so i guess who really knows? I don't think it's meant to imply some kind of exodus from youtube altogether, though.

[Catallena]

Oh Dan. You were saying good things there. Really. And I'm happy you say those things about gay and trans rights because it's valid and important. But it's really not gonna sound as believable as you want it too when you hang with someone like Felix and never call him out publicly. I guess the thing he said about how people have all been problematic and that they need a chance to learn about things kinda explains why he's still ok with Felix but I'm not here for what I can only call Dan's arrogance in thinking that he will really be the one to change Felix. Felix damn well knows hon. Stop. Just because you mostly let go of problematic behavior from the past doesn't mean everyone in 'our' generation is. It'd be nice, but it doesn't work that way. I think his heart is in the right place but uuuuugh. I'm gonna need ibuprofen for my headache now instead of my fucked up ankle.

I enjoyed the rest of it. Meh to ISG but I'll be nice only because he hasn't barfed up three of the things in one year already this time. And as long as Gamingmas involves an episode of Golf With Bants I'll be happy.

Imagine being able to not do your job next week because you wanna play a game tho. I really regret only using YouTube to upload shitty AMVs on when it was starting out. I could be chilling in a pile of money now.

[blackdenim]

I didn't watch the ls and I don't want to bring this discussion back really because I got way too worked up last time... but tbh if Dan did say it's mainly old people who aren't progressive, and condemned people who use slurs or whatever, the rage I felt towards him (and Phil) after the PDP thing has come back. Honey, a few weeks ago you were hanging out with a 28 year old who drops the n-word like it's nothing? Pick a lane.

I know he's trying to do the right thing and use his platform for good and that actually makes it all the more frustrating to me that he can't see past the end of his own nose to the bad behaviour of his friends.

Anyway

I wonder if he just came on too strong when he said it would be the 'last chance' to see him and Phil? I don't imagine them doing another tour, but surely they would only stop doing conventions if they stop doing Y`T? And as I said recently, I can't really see them doing that any time in the near future.

Also have anyone else's tickets for Interactive Introverts come!? My London ones came over the weekend which I thought was super quick!

[alittledizzy]

[Catallena]

I don't think they'll stop doing Vidcon or Playlist Orlando. Vidcon is the biggest event, Playlist is good for combining with Lester clan holidays. But I'm unsure whether they'll ever show up at Summer In The City again. It's the biggest UK event but I still don't think big enough to handle a D&P signing. The ones in the past have always been a bit messy haven't they? SITC prides itself on being authentic the way YouTube meet ups used to be and D&P might have outgrown that.

Maybe they'll pick up Vidcon Europe if it continues beyond next year? Amsterdam is less than an hour away, if they really wanted to to they could fly home the same day :')

[alch]

Conventions-
I think they'll keep coming, it seems like the only reason they're not is because they're away from the areas because of touring.
Though I did feel like they've been showing up less at the Vidcon (which is the only convention I go to) as they only did one signing slot this year and only had one onstage appearance.

On a prior topic-
Though I'm glad that Dan is talking about progressive issues I share the opinion of most of this forum in still really wishing that Dan would acknowledge that Pewdiepie did something wrong. I'm disappointed in him (and Phil) for never even coming close to breaking off ties with Felix, or talking about him saying a racial slur being a bad thing that they don't want to associate with.

[greenergrass]

“The thing is… TATINOF was supposed to be THE Dan and Phil Tour. Me thinking about my life and what I want to do and what my plans are, I never thought oh, yeah, and then me and Phil will do tours every two years. No. You know, TATINOF was supposed to be the be all and end all self-defining thing but you know for reasons we’ve expressed before we were like well we have to do another one and it would be good. So… this is it. I mean, I can’t see a crystal ball but if you want to see Phil and I in real life, I can’t imagine there will be another chance ever again."

How he phrased that is really interesting. My gut feeling was that he meant there wouldn't be another chance to see them in remote cities around the world; I kind of assume after next year they go back to convention appearances as normal. But he didn't word it specifically in that way, so i guess who really knows? I don't think it's meant to imply some kind of exodus from youtube altogether, though.

I initially thought the same as autumnhearth, like this might be it for them going to any professional-type meet-and-greets or shows (i.e. tours, conventions, etc.) based on how he worded it. But I think I actually agree with alittledizzy here. We know Dan has a tendency to jumble his words and word things in odd ways, so what I think he was trying to get across is that this is probably the last worldwide tour they'll do, but I'm sure they will still attend at least 1 convention (or something of the sort) each year. I wonder if that quote has anyone on twitter/tumblr worrying about deppy starting to slowly quit youtube after this year - I definitely don't think that, but it feels like the sort of thing people would dramatize and take out of context.

[captainspacecoat]

That was the longest liveshow he's done since August, I was surprised he went past 40 minutes.

Re: Touring - I didn't interpret what he said to imply that people will never again have the opportunity to meet them in person - after all, only around 100 people per show will actually get to meet them and I assume all VIP tickets have sold out, so I don't think he was trying to sell the tour to people who want a chance to meet them in person. I think he just meant they probably won't embark on another global tour after this one, so if you're interested in seeing Dan and Phil perform live this is likely your last chance to do so. I can see them continuing with Playlist and Vidcon in future, and I don't think Dan was necessarily suggesting they will never attend another convention again.

Re: Hypocrisy - Obviously I fully support Dan's stance here, I'm glad he's vocally supportive of trans rights and I appreciated what he had to say about the marriage equality survey in Australia. But I have to agree with others who've said it's hard to take him seriously when he talks about how young people are generally more socially progressive than others, and how we're all learning not to use offensive slurs, and condemning people who refuse to acknowledge why it is that the slurs they use are offensive rather than recognising that they're in the wrong and actively working to change their behaviour. Especially that last point, given that Felix literally did just that - continued to use racist slurs even after being publicly condemned for it - and yet Dan and Phil continue to hang out with him. Dan's a smart man, I would think he could connect the dots and confront his own cognitive dissonance, but hey

In other news, I'm happy to hear they're gonna do gamingmas again, I genuinely didn't think they would so I'm pleasantly surprised. I also like that Dan isn't afraid to be open about crying in tv shows/film/music/games etc, I relate to that a lot and it's nice to hear. Also don't understand their love for mince pies, but am willing to put my hatred for them aside for more cute stories of the mince pie codex 2k17.

[Kurai]

This is my first time chiming in after a ls and I generally agree with the consensus RE: Hypocrisy but this is by far my favourite Dan LS in ages because I was I was home sick yesterday (All my fellow Aussie queers, did you all get sick after the plebiscite results were announced?! It seems to be a thing in my social circles?) And ANYWAY I binged watched the Ancient Magus' Bride and all cried my little heart out at episode 3 and 5 (maybe because my life has been reduced to a chaotic mess in the last week idk??).

It just felt so timely that he and Phil had also just watched and that he had an emotional reaction to it too.

[autumnhearth]

I actually agree with you all, it’s just where my mind went after his phrasing. I’ve got my domestic goggles on tight. I definitely don’t think they’re quitting YT.

And I do echo all your sentiments concerning social justice and Felix. It does taint things. But I’m still glad he keeps on putting out the message, even if it’s is mostly preaching to the choir.

I hope he does make a video for Stop Speak Support and continues to do work with Young Minds. Use that platform, even if everyone is problematic.

[pastelspectre]

it was a good liveshow. i liked the things dan said about progressiveness and i'm a bit sour and bitter that this will possibly be their last tour since i can't go, but eh. i'm used to it by now. overall, i enjoyed the liveshow and i'm disappointed dan isn't doing one next week, but oh well.

[greenergrass]

That was the longest liveshow he's done since August, I was surprised he went past 40 minutes.

I wonder if that's partly due to Phil not being home (Dan said he was away right, or did I misunderstand that, and he hasn't actually left yet?). Obvs not saying he's completely attached to phil or anything, but he does tend to do longer shows when he's home alone.

Re: Hypocrisy - Obviously I fully support Dan's stance here, I'm glad he's vocally supportive of trans rights and I appreciated what he had to say about the marriage equality survey in Australia. But I have to agree with others who've said it's hard to take him seriously when he talks about how young people are generally more socially progressive than others, and how we're all learning not to use offensive slurs, and condemning people who refuse to acknowledge why it is that the slurs they use are offensive rather than recognising that they're in the wrong and actively working to change their behaviour. Especially that last point, given that Felix literally did just that - continued to use racist slurs even after being publicly condemned for it - and yet Dan and Phil continue to hang out with him. Dan's a smart man, I would think he could connect the dots and confront his own cognitive dissonance, but hey

I'm always happy when Dan speaks out about rights, and I don't think he's mentioned trans rights too often in the past so I'm glad he talked about them more extensively tonight. I do agree he was being a bit of a hypocrite, but I don't think that outweighs the good he does by speaking out about important things like he did tonight. I'm not sure I'm making sense, so sorry if I offend. To be clear, the whole Felix situation is terrible and Dan (and Phil) have definitely not treated that situation properly and I do not like that they still associate with Felix. However, I'm not sure if every positive thing Dan says/does needs to be compared to the Felix situation (I'm not arguing against you specifically, just happen to be quoting your text because it was relevant). Or maybe it does? I don't know, basically what I'm trying to see is, at the end of the day, Dan is reaching a large audience with the positive things he says about issues such as gay/trans rights, not using the word r*tarded, etc. That doesn't change the fact that he publicly associated with a racist, but it also (in my eyes) doesn't negate the positive things he does.

I also like that Dan isn't afraid to be open about crying in tv shows/film/music/games etc, I relate to that a lot and it's nice to hear.

I really love that about him. It seems like in this day and age, most guys should be fine with showing vulnerability, and gender stereotypes are dumb, but unfortunately a lot of boys still don't like to show their more sensitive side. Dan is completely unapologetic about it, and actually treats it as something he likes about himself.


Also: 41:56 "What is the fan service with Cole Sprouse in this vest? I don't know man, I'm about it." Dan has the biggest crush on Cole Sprouse (can't blame him), and he tries to make it known like every week. Cole, just do him a favour and DM him on twitter or something? Theory - Dan made Phil wear the beanie in his 'viewers pick my outfit' vid only because Jughead wears a beanie and Dan was desperate for some semblance of Cole Sprouse in his life

[captainspacecoat]

I'm always happy when Dan speaks out about rights, and I don't think he's mentioned trans rights too often in the past so I'm glad he talked about them more extensively tonight. I do agree he was being a bit of a hypocrite, but I don't think that outweighs the good he does by speaking out about important things like he did tonight. I'm not sure I'm making sense, so sorry if I offend. To be clear, the whole Felix situation is terrible and Dan (and Phil) have definitely not treated that situation properly and I do not like that they still associate with Felix. However, I'm not sure if every positive thing Dan says/does needs to be compared to the Felix situation (I'm not arguing against you specifically, just happen to be quoting your text because it was relevant). Or maybe it does? I don't know, basically what I'm trying to see is, at the end of the day, Dan is reaching a large audience with the positive things he says about issues such as gay/trans rights, not using the word r*tarded, etc. That doesn't change the fact that he publicly associated with a racist, but it also (in my eyes) doesn't negate the positive things he does.

Oh yeah, definitely! Don't get me wrong, I think it's fantastic that Dan is talking about trans rights (especially as it looks as though UK media is currently being flooded by awful transphobic rhetoric, at least from what I've seen through following Owen Jones on twitter). I completely agree with what he said, and I love that he's willing to talk about social justice. I think he is genuinely a very compassionate person with a genuine (and personal) interest in LGBT+ issues, and I also really appreciated that he brought up 'r*tard' as an example of a slur that has been generally accepted in society, as I feel like that word is one that is still accepted in a lot of youth circles. I totally agree with you that it's great for him to talk about these things to such a wide audience, and I imagine it's very affirming for young people to hear these things from someone they look up to. I don't mean to negate what he said at all, it's just that ever since the pewdiepie sitch I guess I'm a bit more cynical than I once was, and I find it difficult to fully take him seriously given that associating with someone who uses racial slurs directly goes against what he said about people needing to recognise, address and unlearn their use of slurs.

[DeadlyNova]

I know the conversation has mostly moved on past this, but I really wanted to leave my input on the size of the phandom and related to how much fanfiction it gets!

I think the phandom doesn't realize how lucky they are when it comes to the sheer amount of fan content alone that we get.

This is coming from someone who has spent the past six years in a fandom that is so small that the ao3 page has less than 20 fics, the FFN.Net page MAYBE get's one new page of fics a month on a good month, and half of them were written by me. Where literally everyone knows one another and there is no tumblr fandom.

I've been in a lot of fandoms and I still think, ship wise, at least(I know it's not comparable to fictional ships, but just for the sake of making this kind of comparison) the phandom gets FAR more fics than any other fandom I have ever been in or am currently in. It's not small compared to most fandoms, by any means.

I definitely agree about the lack of interaction between most of the fans, though. Tumblr is a terrible place to interact with other people and make friends. Like I said, while I have been in and am currently in a TON of fandoms, I have yet to make a single friend in any one besides the one I mentioned earlier that doesn't have a tumblr fandom. Tumblr allows me to look from afar and not interact, which doesn't work well with making friends when I am too afraid to approach anyone. LOL

More on the topic at hand, I haven't watched Dan's liveshow yet but from the good talk about it I might have to give it a watch! I have several liveshows I need to catch up on but haven't had the time or energy to do so.

And on a final note, OH MY GOD I'M SO EXCITED FOR PINOF9.

[airie]

Re: Hypocrisy

I wonder if it has something to do with him trying to stay drama free? As much as I adore deppy they do have a tendency to avoid any conflict. Pdp has a solid, vocal fanbase and we know what kind of sh*tstorm jack caused when he slightly criticise pdp. With the size of deppy and pdp's fanbases it's not hard to imagine a terrible clash if deppy flat-out criticise pdp.

Moreover there's only a small part of the phandom who's unhappy with deppy's current stance on this; on twitter noone discusses this topic after ls, everyone virtually ignores / forgives / most likely doesn't notice his double standard (is that even the right term for this idk).

I do hope even if they don't want to call out pdp (publicly, idk how close they are to pdp personally) they at least will distance themselves from him. After all it's not like there are people who actively want them three to collab or something.

That aside, they make me want to try mince pies.

[flurry]

Having seen the discussion here about Dan'a liveshow, I don't know if this could be another way of seeing the whole hypocrisy issue - that Dan brings up slurs precisely because of Felix. As others have said, he probably can't openly call him out because of stupid YouTube hierarchies and Felix still bring the king of YouTube (why does the platform do absolutely nothing about it??) - so the next thing Dan could do is to subtly call him out using his own videos on what he thinks isn't right. Just my thoughts though.

However I also see that this doesn't answer the bit where Dan talks about age as a marker of progressiveness in a way - which I heartily disagree with. Some old people can be extremely open and some young people can be the most ignorant or closed off.

[alittledizzy]

Liveshow timestamps:

(Bonus bit that he edited it out: something about youtube suggesting him conspiracy theory MLP videos.)

0:00 - Story about meeting the prince/cyberbullying story.
8:14 - "He's like, well tall." "His royal daddy, waddup."
9:24 - Radio 1/Brits mention (RIP).
10:15 - Might make a stopspeaksupport video, but he already made The Internet is Mean.
11:39 - He is "well hyped" to go to Mexico.
12:09 - Plugging the II tour.
12:48 - Dan can't pronounce Schenectady. Looking forward to Edinburgh, Manchester (mentions uni friends), Liverpool (important city culturally), and Newcastle (northern place he didn't visit enough).
12:37 - There will be Christmas themed video content.
14:14 - 44 degrees when they went to Phoenix the first time, drenched in sweat walking to Starbucks. Atlanta, home of the walking dead. A bunch in Texas. This concludes Naming Cities With Dan.
15:46 - He blowdried his hair today.
16:00 - He's got a tiny cold.
16:04 - Animal Crossing.
17:10 - Good smelling king.
17:19 - pinof; "Dan and Phil. It's the tradition. The homage. Back to the origin story." Filming tomorrow.
18:30 - Sims video.
20:13 - Dan has watched the dog video three times, he just finds it relaxing.
21:49 - Australia vote.
23:53 - Probably not another world tour. "This is it. I mean, I can't see a crystal ball, but if you want to see Phil and I in real life I can't imagine there will be another chance ever again."
24:40 - Trans acceptance; trashy UK garbage newspapers.
27:16 - Euthenasia should be legalized.
27:18 - 'Dan, you're amazing.' "But I'm not Phil."
27:33 - They might play Dream Daddy during gamingmas.
27:58 - Gaming livestream on Sunday because Phil's away.
28:11 - People need a chance to realize why they're ignorance.
28:59 - Phil is going to "visit some famalam."
29:47 - Someone works out with his mum to their videos.
30:11 - BTS
32:30 - Seven million twitter followers. His online existence is so strange; he doesn't get subscribers fast but the ratio to views is so weird. The kind of people that watch his videos don't spend all day logged into youtube checking subscriptions, but they follow people on twitter/tumblr/instagram.
33:50 - Story about Dan crying. They finished watching One Punch Man, noticed The Ancient Magus Bride on crunchyroll. (Dan goes on listicles, Phil just clicks what is there.) Third episode destroyed him, he was a mess, had a breakdown. Also cried at episode five.
37:49 - He cries when he watches a sad tv show or listens to beautiful music, he's dead inside but also in touch with his emotions and not afraid to show vulnerability.
38:19 - Also cried at ending to FF 15 dlc
40:23 - Riverdale; fanservice with Cole Sprouse and his vest. Dan's about it.
41:30 - Betty annoys him because she's a "typical white savior" who will save the poor people and expose all the injustices or whatever.
42:14 - The Good Place is amazing.
42:40 - Dan and Phil reference themed Truth Bombs booster pack.
43:57 - FFVII is his fave game of all time.
44:19 - Markiplier video made them realize the 7SC app didn't get updated, story about app programmer quitting.
45:33 - Thor.
48:19 - No plans next week, raiding in GW2.
48:30 - Mince pie list.
51:02 - Dan video over the weekend, after pinof.

[lorelei]

I've been in a lot of fandoms and I still think, ship wise, at least(I know it's not comparable to fictional ships, but just for the sake of making this kind of comparison) the phandom gets FAR more fics than any other fandom I have ever been in or am currently in. It's not small compared to most fandoms, by any means.

I completely second all of this, lol. When I first started interacting with phandom earlier this year, I was amazed at just how many fics and other fanworks there are. And people are always posting about dnp, all the time, and there's more and more fics every day, etc. Whenever people say "the phandom is dying" I'm just like... y'all should see some of the fandoms I've been in. For several years my main fandom was a subset of another fandom (it was divided by ships) and maybe like 15-20 of us posted regularly on tumblr. It was for a video game that had come out nearly ten years before. Phandom is like a gold mine of content to me, lmao. I see people saying the phandom is dying on tumblr when a gifset gets like, 1k notes instead of 5k. If a post of mine back when I was in that tiny fandom got 10 notes, it was a good day.

I definitely agree about the lack of interaction between most of the fans, though. Tumblr is a terrible place to interact with other people and make friends. Like I said, while I have been in and am currently in a TON of fandoms, I have yet to make a single friend in any one besides the one I mentioned earlier that doesn't have a tumblr fandom. Tumblr allows me to look from afar and not interact, which doesn't work well with making friends when I am too afraid to approach anyone. LOL

I agree with this too! I'm generally awful about talking to people online, but I'm getting more comfortable posting on idb. I don't feel inferior to other people like I do on other sites where followers and notes are such a big deal.

[lefthandedism]

Liveshow timestamps:

43:57 - FFVIII is his fave game of all time.

Thanks for the timestamps as always! I think it's actually FFVII not FFVIII? (Just want to keep the archive straight for the future in which all YouTube videos disappear, but IDB remains. )

Anyway, since I was off work, I watched the liveshow since I could watch it live. One thing with liveshows is that I can never just leave them on in the background--I get too much enjoyment out of watching Dan.

I squealed when he mentioned Gamingmas, and I got annoyed at his ageism.

I live in one of those coastal liberal elite type places, and almost everyone I encounter has progressive values, and that means almost everyone at every age. Is Britain really more age-stratified than the United States? I'm curious now.

It seems to me, at the decidedly older end of the phandom, that it's almost fanservice? pandering? when he says that stuff--telling his prime demographic that they're better than those annoying adults. Or else he believes it, which I would find annoying!

[alittledizzy]

Liveshow timestamps:

43:57 - FFVIII is his fave game of all time.

Thanks for the timestamps as always! I think it's actually FFVII not FFVIII? (Just want to keep the archive straight for the future in which all YouTube videos disappear, but IDB remains. )

Oops, you're right! Typed it wrong.

[OhItsElliott]

Ok, I'm in the middle of watching dan's ls and I haven't gotten a chance to do more but scan over the last 2 pages so I'm seeing some people mentioning hypocrisy. That's totally valid and once I take a step back, I'll likely see it as well. However, for now, I had to come on here and share because I'm having emotions. I''ll put it under a spoiler since it's more personal and a reaction to his trans rights waffle.

Maybe it's the fact that I've had an exceptionally difficult day and it's coming up on the holidays which means interacting with some transphobic relatives but hearing Dan talk so blatantly about trans rights being important made me emotional. I'm talking VERY emotional. Like, as a trans man, I actually cried. That's something that I've only done 1 other time since starting testosterone nearly 4 months ago.

Just existing as a trans person is so much more difficult than most cis people realize, it literally becomes a factor in almost every fucking thing I do that involves other people. Having someone in a position of influence (however small) just straight up say "um, of fucking course transgender people are valid. They are living their lives the way they need want to. There is nothing wrong about that, there is no argument here." means more than I can say. When you live your life having most people stare a little too long, trying to figure you out, when you're only gendered correctly maybe 1/4 of the time, when everyone you come out to says "hmm but are you SURE?" or asks invasive questions about something exceptionally personal, it's easy to believe what they're saying in the subtext and what's implied by the faces they make at you or the comments they say to you. To believe that you are a freak, that you don't deserve basic rights like going to the bathroom because you might make other people uncomfortable or risk getting yelled at or beaten up and hopefully not worse. So I guess for someone who I follow on the internet so say that yeah, I matter and that shouldn't even be a fucking question; something I sometimes have trouble believing MYSELF, let alone trying to convince everyone around me, it's a Big Deal. I love this man for standing up and saying that to his audience. It even (as silly as it sounds) makes me feel a little better or safer going to see their show this summer.

I get there is controversy because of his casual connections and recent time spent with pdp. Really, I understand it, but having him directly say to his audience that transphobia is wrong makes so much difference, at least to me. Alright this has been a mess and if you've read all of it good on you and thanks. This is just my experience as a trans guy.

Tl;dr I'm emotional and appreciate dan speaking up for me and my fellow trans siblings

Once I've finished his ls and gotten myself pulled together, I really look forward to going back and reading what you all have said about that comment he made about the tour being the last time anyone will get to meet him and phil. Weird wording me thinks. Hopefully that wasn't some foreshadowing the end of deppy or that they're planning to go their separate ways soon. Anyway, thanks for reading this mess of a post!

[nøx]

Sounds like a lovely liveshow, I'll definitely try to remember to watch it when I have a bit more time!

There's a lot to be said about the whole hypocrisy thing, I'm just popping in to say that I love that he talked about trans rights! Trans (and NB, lotsa overlap) rights are often forgotten even in the LGBTQ community itself. I'm heavily involved with such an organisation and uuuhh there's not a lot of room for trans & NB people. (Especially related to nonbinary gender identities, I hear the most hurtful stuff from cis LGBQs...) So yeah. That's really nice and I appreciate it very much.

A little bit of rant about the old people argument in the spoiler

I hope he drops the "only old people are bigots and we just have to stay strong while they die" argument. We KNOW that's not true and to me it just comes off as an attempt of absolving yourself of responsibility and convincing yourself that you have no work to do. I used to say the same thing and this was the sort of underlying logic in my mind, at least. It's kinda like when there's a problematic group in your movement and you say "Oh, but those aren't REALLY XYZs." They're IN your movement, now deal with it. And bigoted + casually bigoted young people CERTAINLY exist, so maybe we young ones should deal with that. Progressive changes never came around because old people just went and died, they came around because people fought for it. That includes young people making an effort.

[captainspacecoat]

(I just want to clarify in case it hasn't been clear in my posts that to me Dan's hypocrisy lies specifically in what he had to say about slurs, and not in his condemnation of transphobia. I think Dan so vocally throwing his support behind trans people and condemning transphobic abuse is a fantastic thing, and so important for his trans audience to hear (and also for people watching who may be ignorant about trans issues, as I think Dan's influence has the potential to change hateful attitudes). However, I do also think that Dan condemning people who refuse to stop using offensive slurs even after being educated about why they're offensive is hypocritical, given the Felix situation. Hopefully that makes sense!)

Regarding the age issue, I agree that we need to stop pretending like bigotry and ignorance don't exist among the younger generation - I think there are many examples of conservative young people, and Felix is a prime example of a young person on youtube who continues to use racist slurs and has fuelled the alt-right movement (regardless of "intention"). However, there is data to suggest that in general young people tend to be more progressive than older people, and I'm guessing that's where Dan's coming from here. According to exit polls following Trump's election, for example, more young people voted for Clinton while older people were more likely to vote for Trump . Same goes with the UK election this year, with young people overwhelmingly voting for Labour and older people overwhelmingly voting Tory. So I get where Dan's coming from, and I think a) we need to recognise that our generation isn't perfect and we need to confront the racism, homophobia, transphobia, misogyny and ableism that definitely exists among young people, but also b) it seems apparent conservative attitudes more frequently exist among the older generations, despite the many older people who are progressive (my parents, for example, are total lefties and support the Greens).

[LtrllySusan]

Complete unrelated to you guys' v relevant discussion but Dan needs to update whatever word document he copy-pastes his links from

And I agree that his wording regarding "this is the last tour and you can't ever meet us again afterwards" was a bit... strange? But it's Dan, so let's not read too much into it *cough* something we are ready to share with the world *cough*