Dan & Phil Part 67: Laughter, Food and Sex

[Loafer]

Ah yes, because his fans voicing surprise, pride, and happiness that he made an bold sexual reveal about himself on his main channel is the same thing as “lol sex”, silly me.

Ok ok I know it’s a meme and therefore a gross simplification of the topic, but ?? Is he really that dense?? It’s just a bit insulting, like Dan, YOU’RE the one that said giving head (or eating ass apparently) is one of the top 3 things that makes you happiest. In a self-reflective video that you apparently wanted people to take somewhat seriously. Posted to your army of fans, a majority of whom have “phan” somewhere in their profile...and I’M the one who is took things the wrong way? K.

I see dan as someone constantly stuck between wanting to be his authentic self, and desperately not wanting the loss of control and shift in audience attention from his work to his private life. Which is fair. I get that. I do think he wants to live out of the closet (which is probably why he included that “~joke” in the video to begin with) but wants to be known for his #quality content, not his private life.

Which brings me to...the quality/producer/dan merch/ omfg-things-are-changing topic. I hope dan knows that having a producer and nicely edited videos are not gonna do anything for his current career and audience. “High quality” is really not an indicator of success, or a guarantee of good videos. High quality content is simply not why people watch youtubers, and as a viewer I don’t see a drastic difference in Dan’s quality and say, professional buzzfeed videos. Having a producer/editor just might make his job easier. But, I think they both know that relying on YouTube as a long term career isn’t smart. I don’t think either of them will stop making videos, but I wouldn’t be surprised if eventually it became more of a hobby, rather than their entire career. I think we might see him (and Phil, maybe) taking steps towards an alternate career (having a producer and editor gives him more time to focus on other things while giving him the experience of working with other people). A more drastic rebrand, trying something completely new (YouTube wise, maybe more artsy videos or even creative short films) wouldn’t be so risky if he had an alternate career and source of income to fall back on. Idk, just thoughts about how things might go.

[alien]

Honestly the more I reflect on all of this the more I just feel sad for Dan. He comes across as someone who is struggling and unhappy (but then sometimes in gaming vids he seems very content so idk tbh).

I've also been feeling that something is coming after the tour. I'm not talking a #phandivorce or whatever nonsense but I could almost see Phil wanting to take a different direction in his career (away from youtube - starting with less liveshows) and it's throwing Dan for a loop and making him question what he wants to do as more of a solo act professionally (hence the talk of editors, camerman, solo merch). In his video he even talks about not being able to make up his mind, going back to uni or killing it on youtube, etc and I know from being depressed myself that it's sometimes really hard to maintain any motivation to actually stick with something. Which I could see a big change like this being a lot harder on Dan than Phil. This is all wild speculation but my imagination is great at running free.

[fieldoflovers]

I had to go to class so i couldn’t respond right away to dan’s liveshow but wow. A lot happened, his opinions always leave me passionate, in one way or another.

I’m not going to talk too much about the dicks stuff too much but i just wanna say, why is it that his thumbnail and the title of the liveshow are about his oral fixation, when he doesn’t want people to fixate on the sex jokes of the video. If you don’t want that to be something people talk about, maybe don’t pose with a toothbrush and be assosiated with those implications. Would it be too hard to just steer clear of that topic if the dick assosiation made him uncomfortable and idk called the liveshow, finding happiness or smthing??

I don’t just wanna be rude to Dan but on the editor/cameraman front, i think getting people to elevate your content is fine but a lot the youtubers who do also put out wayyy more content than 1 video every 3-4 weeks so if dan did get an editor i would expect more videos. Like that’s not me being a demanding fan (okay it is a little) but i think that’s fair to expect cause he’ll have a lesser workload.

Its also interesting that he didn’t say anything qbout getting an editor for a gaming channel but i think that’s where it’d be best to get one cause they can be ‘we do everything ourselves’ creators on their mains.

This post is getting hella long but @dan you don’t basically do stand up okay? Stand up is an art and a skill that is very different to being edited in video format,,, that being said i think he should try stand up cause he’d probably be good at it cause he has stage presence and charisma

gosh i feel like i go through 100 different emotions everytime i watch a dan liveshow

[Birdie]

I see dan as someone constantly stuck between wanting to be his authentic self, and desperately not wanting the loss of control and shift in audience attention from his work to his private life. Which is fair. I get that. I do think he wants to live out of the closet (which is probably why he included that “~joke” in the video to begin with) but wants to be known for his #quality content, not his private life.

Yes, this! I'm afraid he's fighting windmills though to be honest because in his position - as someone in front of a camera whose appeal to his fans is literally his personality - keeping your work seperate from your private life is nearly impossible. We know both Dan and Phil are very private people*, they don't share nearly as much as other Youtubers and when it comes down to it we really know as good as nothing about who they really are. And, I've got to say, well done! For celebrities they've kept a lot of their private lives under wraps and I really hope they keep it that way if that's what they want. But it also makes fans extra hungry for snippets of their private lives and that's normal because with Youtubers you're invested in the person first and foremost, not the stuff they're trying to sell you. And when something does slip through, even if it's intentional like with Dan's new video, I guess that's scary when you want to keep your private life as seperate from your work as possible. I kind of suspect Dan might not be too sure what he wants atm - lay it all bare and share his personality and life with his audience or be the cool, distant Youtuber whose quality work speaks for itself and whose private life is a big mystery. So maybe at the time of making the video being all personal and open felt right to him but once he realised he gave thousands of fans a big chunk of personal information to chew on, it got scary.

(And yes, I'm projecting again but on a smaller scale I think many people with anxiety can relate to this struggle between wanting to show people who you really are and being shit scared of people knowing who you really are...just Imagining that dread on the scale that Dan might face it literally makes me anxious.)

*which is why I constantly feel bad even posting about them here or on Tumblr or anywhere because I know they would hate it but at the same time, as a fan, I want to discuss them with other fans.

[Kimship]

I think I'm on the other side of most people with the hiring out some of his work: I think it might be a good idea. If doing a video can be as overwhelming to him at it sounds like it is, I can see how being able to hire someone to do some of the work he doesn't enjoy doing could make the whole process easier. Also, it's nice to spread some of that sweet Youtube money around(I say as failed video editor, currently stuck doing inDesign work, instead). If he enjoys the writing and the performing, but only grudgingly does the camera work and setup, then sure, hire someone. Although, maybe it'll just give him more time to overthink everything, paralyzing him even more. (THAT I find relatable.)

[malday]

Yes, absolutely. Like people naturally pick up on the most interesting part of a video, and when a comment is that shocking and straight forward, it's just going to be the thing people talk about the most. Dan knows that. There's only so much you can say about the actual serious content of the video, as it went in circles and didn't even really answer the question of what it even means to "live your truth", so yes, people will fixate on the sex stuff. I get being annoyed by it, but it was his doing.

Also, Dan liked this:

just..ugh idk

Ugh. It's funny because my reaction to the liveshow was pretty negative, but I think it was in a different way than most others I've seen. I didn't necessarily take it as him backtracking on the dick joke. Instead I took it as him expressing annoyance (in a pretty patronizing way) about people focusing so much on those lines. I realize he literally said he doesn't care, but idk.
There's been several distinct times that I've thought "oh Dan knows his audience well enough by now" (like about the Bahamas thing and people talking about that week in March), but then he comes along with something that just makes me think... did you really not realize this would happen?[/b] Did you really not expect people to focus on/talk about multiple semi-explicit sex mentions in a main channel video? I just. Don't understand him sometimes.

I agree with you. Definitely the part that left me dissappointed was that I thought that he knew his audience better, I for sure thought he would anticipate this, or even gloss by it.
Other times he doesn't address his videos the next day, he lets them pass and a week later talks about them. Maybe he should have done that in this case? Skip a week maybe? Idk.

Whatever made him react the way he did was not lack of anticipation, he's been doing this job for longer than some of his fans have been alive, and knows his own comments section better than anyone. If anything having that outtake video prepared shows he anticipated it.

He seemed to contradict himself and it just leaves people confused how to react to his videos and how seriously they should be taken.

[lemon something]

It's pretty clear that Dan isn't in a good place right now, but that doesn't mean he has a free pass to behave however he likes. He has to understand that he has a responsibility towards his audience. If he doesn't want that burden, then he should stick to making impersonal, entertainment only content.

Dan should know how important representation is for queer people, especially young queer people - it's not something you play around with and retract when you feel like it. I guess some people were saying "lol penises", but I was seeing people feeling their identities were being validated. People seeing that you can be proud of your identity as a queer person and being inspired to come out and make steps towards living their truths. Dan sharing his identity with people who could see themselves reflected in him was important and meaningful and people listened to what he said with open hearts. If he genuinely didn't mean to imply he was talking about penises anywhere in the video (I know, I know, of course he did but let's just hypothesise for a moment), then the kind, responsible, thoughtful thing to do would be nothing. Just let it go, because "not that there's anything wrong with it, but just let me pull out my carefully prepared evidence" implies there really is something wrong with it. I'm disappointed in him.

@aifos I loved your post btw.

[fancybum]

Phil and Misc Watch 2018
exploring dan’s oral fixation or not (Mar 6, 2018)

Prompted Phil Mention

17:25 (chat) are you going to vidcon? where is Phil?
“Phil and I are not going to any conventions this year [bc tour]”

Unprompted Phil Mention

21:14 (chat) Help me Dan I was horrendously sick at work today
“So was Phil last week”

33:30 “Big tour week of planning and stuff, and a Phil video needs to happen”

Neutral Phil Mention

15:22 “Did you watch the video on DanandPhilGAMES? Jesus.”
“I was like ‘Phil, I don’t want to make a video playing Fortnite with you’”
16:54 “Phil’s been playing a lot. A lot a lot.”

18:02 “Speaking of the Dan and Phil [tour]” blah blah sharing stuff soon probably whatever
19:05 “we might put together a cool trailer because we can’t spoil a stage show, Dan and Phil on tour, that hasn’t happened yet”
“The show, the concept is giving the people what they want, it’s Dan and Phil, it’s live, it’s real on stage, it’s exploring the relationships between us and you guys”
19:40 “With lots of ways of getting people involved in the show before… maybe on the internet before the show, it’ll be lots of things that change completely based on what the people attending that show on the night want to talk about and want us to react to and stuff like that”

23:10 “Even if you don’t come to a m&g, the show will feel very intimate and connected and friendly and funny. So if you ever feel like ‘I really wanna see Dan and Phil on tour’ - because let’s be real, there ain’t gonna be another Dan and Phil tour […] - you’ll have a good time.”

24:25 “Tried to build a snowman, Phil and I went outside”
24:55 “so I just decided to throw a slowmo snowball at Phil.”
“Phil torments me daily so it’s only fair”
“Look at that impact on his head, poor Phil, oh no, but he was fine, and he did throw it back. The video ended with me shrieking and he did hit me right in the face, too.”

36:08 “If you haven’t been keeping up with Dan and Phil Play The Sims 4, the world’s best soap opera, stuff is happening right now”
-i have not, soz
37:40 “It’s a good time to subscribe to DAPG”

46:10 (chat) Dan are you ever gonna do new merch
“Hilarious. Remember all the old Dan and Phil merch? And then we did danandphilshop and it was like, ok yeah, let’s just do some danisnotonfire and AmazingPhil merch. I think we both wanted to do that in like 2016, but then this whole tour happened, and then 2017, things take awhile and they’re procrastinating. So Dan merch, yep, it’s gonna be a thing.”
“But it’s coming, it’s all gonna be black, of course, I’ve got some friends to help me model it [who aren’t all giant men like him], it’ll be just a few things, just chill and more limited, hope you enjoy that.”

Miscellaneous

1:40 “Well I guess the most interesting thing that’s happened in my life recently is: who saw my last video? That’s right, it happened. Dan uploaded.”

2:40 “How do I want my YT channel to be better? And the reality of the situation is, I’m going on tour this year, so ain’t like much is gonna change.”

4:45 “I had this weird creative day where I just like bunged out like 4 ideas for videos that I totally want to make, but it just didn’t feel right. It had to be important. And I was feeling honestly weirdly in this state of paralysis where I couldn’t do anything unless it was something that felt like a personal expression that advanced my life in some way. Because I always have to feel like I’m growing as a person.”

6:22 “I see my videos as a triangle”, they need to be:
1. entertaining/funny
2. personal
3. interesting

Too interesting = preachy and boring
Too entertaining = you’re just a person trying to be funny
Too personal = self-indulgent
“And that’s the thing for me, I want to be in the middle” of the triangle

8:30 (chat) everyone’s talking about dicks
“[lol not everybody but kind of]”
10:40 “It’s just been entertaining for me reading people arguing about it, or not. Because I said in reference to what makes me happy [food/sex/laughter], I just referenced that at the end, and said “something”, which was less about making a big statement at the end of the video - ‘cause that wasn’t the point of the video, the point of the video was me talking about happiness and how to find it - but you know, some people were like ‘I don’t care about anything but the last 4 words’.”

9:58 “I actually changed it because originally I said “ass” instead of “something” (shows video)

10:25 “And I just thought that would be really funny ‘cause like I said, this isn’t the subject of the video, it’s just me referencing what I said earlier and I thought ‘ass is funny’ because eating ass is a meme, and it’s nice and non-exclusive, I don’t want to exclude anybody. Everybody has one.”
[but then later realized…] “oh my god, “something”, it literally only sounds like penis. And the thing is there’s nothing wrong with that. There’s nothing wrong with penises and anyone putting them in and out of their mouth. And it’s funny that I was trying to not be crude by changing it, and then it was even more crude, and anyway. It’s quite funny that in the video discussing happiness and debating the authenticity of existence, a lot of people were like ‘hm, penis’ which was fun”

11:20 “But no, I know that lots of people were like ‘No, Dan was making a serious video’ and it’s fine. Not everybody was obsessed with penises, a lot of people liked the video, and that’s fine. People are allowed to have their own enjoyments of things; if some people want to talk about the intense stuff, and some people just want to talk about the funny stuff, and some other people just want to talk about penises, I’m literally not shaming anybody. I accept it. I wouldn’t have made the joke [otherwise].”
-he's literally rejecting people trying to frame his one line in a video (and not for the first time) as making the entire video about that and only that and something entirely ~serious (or a ~statement or maybe a "coming out" vid), could everybody please stop getting offensively selective amnesia about why he does this and maybe also stop thinking he's the only one with a problem in this equation

21:30 (chat) Name my ukulele
“I call your ukulele: 2007 YouTube”
-savage (but yeah keep asking him to collab with Dodie lmaooo)

30:25 “Honestly though, I’m gonna say that CMBYN was my favourite movie of the year. It was. I didn’t know what to think before, because all gay movies are always so tragic, it’s like someone has to die, or someone has to leave, or homophobia. But this one, it was just like a warm sweater as a movie, it was just so beautiful and emotional and immersive and, being set in a summer in Italy through the eyes of this teenager falling in love for the first time. It was just such an amazing happy movie”

32:17 (chat) where’s your earrings
“I’ve been inside. I’m not making an effort for you right now, I’m sorry”

38:25 “It doesn’t matter what your gender identity, your age, what country you’re living in, if you watch Ladybird, you will awkwardly relate to something in it. I felt so exposed in so many moments when I was watching that”

41:10 (chat) Dan, I liked your video, it got me thinking about how I can be more authentic
“Well that’s good. If me just making a video about the agony that I’m going through internally, in between my day to day responsibilities, and then it gets someone else thinking about it, then fine, maybe I can chill.”

43:05 “We will film it and put it on something, so dw”

43:30 “With my videos, I almost feel like, my ability to produce them— is it holding it back? or is it endearing?”
43:50 “I try as hard as I can, and realistically, without hiring a cameraman and an editor and someone to light the videos better, it’s as good as it’s gonna get. And I know there’s a charm to that, ‘cause that’s why people like YT, that’s why people feel connected to me, ‘cause it’s obviously just me doing my best shittest job by myself. But I wonder: is the production holding it back? If it was better, would the good messages be seen by more people? Who knows man, I debate that.”
44:40 “If I got Bertie Gilbert to direct it, and I got Ciaran, who films every YTers videos, to film it so it looked really good, and then I got Elliot, that edits all of Tomska’s videos, to edit it, would it be like, good?”

44:33 “And maybe it’s not to say I should ever stop doing it by myselves”
45:10 “it’s more authentic and nice that I make them myselves, and it’s probably worse that I make them myselves.
-….is ‘myselves’ his subconscious way of including Phil or like did he just have a stroke

45:52 “I just want to say thanks everybody for watching my new video and for enjoying it and being so lovely and supportive. Hope you enjoy all the gaming channel content that’s coming, it’s definitely very fun”

Phinal Tally: said ‘Phil’ 20 times
20/48 mins = 0.41 per min
*he cut like a minute and ~30sec out after I'd done this (just boring beginning stuff), so some of times may have been missed getting adjusted, whoops if so

Ugh whatever, let him live. Life is scary. Living it in front of an audience certainly can’t help that. I didn’t find him talking about it at all patronizing, just a tiny bit uncomfortable since it was clearly A Thing. And yet again it’s because of the audience shitting themselves over a small part of something he does and not appreciating him not being entirely cool with that and trying to temper it after the fact. Knowing people watching you are most likely going to take something a certain way doesn’t necessarily prepare for you for the degree to which they do it and I don't think that should equal some eye-rolly 'don't do it then' because if he wants to do it anyway for himself (and maybe address it on some level later when it possibly isn't getting a reaction he's comfortable with), then... .

The entire point of the video was not about specific sex acts he’s into and making that the only focus of the video and then blaming him for not being comfortable with letting that be the only focus, as always, is some bullshit. Living 'out' (having foregone whatever oppressively "counts" as some Official Coming Out), still just comes down to what people accept from you, isn't it? Everything needs to be a big deal and a statement and mean everything or else it all means nothing, cool, thanks. Go big or don't bother at all, I guess. Let people tell you what you meant and who you are, and then let them be mad when, and at how, you disagree.
And still seeing the words 'closet' and 'no homo' everywhere now are possibly even more wearing and infuriating than they were yesterday (and the day before and the day before), fucking hell.

[anime_is_not_cool]

For me the depression vid was a sad confirmation that in the end, Dan isn't just pretending and being relatable, he is a youtuber documenting his mental health journey through different crises and actually stuck. And christ, I've been following him for some time, and for a while I've now been feeling like I've got my life kinda together and can be happy ...and he's got a second quarter life crisis, while having the money to hire the best professional help he ever needs.

I think this is a bit unfair. I'm glad you're doing better, but you can't really compare yourself like that to other people. I also brought up his mental health in a previous comment (mods, let me know if this discussion is too far), and I honestly do think he's not really in a great place right now - based on both what he's told us, and his behaviour. Like I said earlier, it's not an excuse for anything - but you also can't fault him for having his own struggles (you can fault him for his actual behaviour, which is what a lot of the discussion is about). He can have the best professional help available to him, but that doesn't mean he's a failure if it's not working. And obviously we don't know what's actually going on in his head (nor do we have the right to know everything). I just thought your post sounded a bit judgemental, but sorry if that's not what you intended.

You're right, that sounded a bit judgemental. I purposely tried to avoid that because I know that everyone has different struggles, but as I left that last comment unexplained and without disclaimers, it totally can come across as me complaining about him (and add compulsory "English isn't my first language").
I meant the "im doing well and dan still isnt?!!!" comment purely as my internal reaction, and while the post was kinda patronizing (even tho I was trying to make it as un-patronizing as possible when commenting on a youtuber's mental health on a public forum (btw @ mods sorry if i was going too far with it, i tried to only base my comments on things he's said out loud without making assumptions, and the purpose of the post was to voice my reaction, not analyze him)), the last part is in smaller font to set it apart from the other parts of the post. Shouldn't try to do that on a forum especially when talking about a sensitive topic, I apologize! If I could edit the post now I would add something like "After I watched his newest video, I was internally thinking"..."even tho I know you can't compare people's journeys, but it just feels weird because i look up to him."
I tried to write the whole post in as loving tone as possible, but yeah, not that good in English yet. The message I'm trying to get across is "live show made me frustrated bc it reminds me of my past self (& my irl friend) and that makes me want to shout advice at him, but I aknowledge that it is because he isn't doing well atm and i hope he gets back on track soon" if that helps.

[hello9217]

It's pretty clear that Dan isn't in a good place right now, but that doesn't mean he has a free pass to behave however he likes. He has to understand that he has a responsibility towards his audience. If he doesn't want that burden, then he should stick to making impersonal, entertainment only content.

Dan should know how important representation is for queer people, especially young queer people - it's not something you play around with and retract when you feel like it. I guess some people were saying "lol penises", but I was seeing people feeling their identities were being validated. People seeing that you can be proud of your identity as a queer person and being inspired to come out and make steps towards living their truths. Dan sharing his identity with people who could see themselves reflected in him was important and meaningful and people listened to what he said with open hearts. If he genuinely didn't mean to imply he was talking about penises anywhere in the video (I know, I know, of course he did but let's just hypothesise for a moment), then the kind, responsible, thoughtful thing to do would be nothing. Just let it go, because "not that there's anything wrong with it, but just let me pull out my carefully prepared evidence" implies there really is something wrong with it. I'm disappointed in him.

@aifos I loved your post btw.

Yes this!!!! Do you know how many comments I saw of people saying they wanted to try and live to be more authentic by coming out of the closet because they felt like Dan was normalizing queerness. So so many! That's why I was initially hurt. The thing is the vast majority of people that watched his main channel video are not watching his liveshow so what purpose does it bring to go back and say that we were misinterpreted? That he wanted to say something "for the meme?" And then on top of that he had his laptop ready and poised to really take his point and hammer it in.

[loonyradish]

It's pretty clear that Dan isn't in a good place right now, but that doesn't mean he has a free pass to behave however he likes. He has to understand that he has a responsibility towards his audience. If he doesn't want that burden, then he should stick to making impersonal, entertainment only content.

Dan should know how important representation is for queer people, especially young queer people - it's not something you play around with and retract when you feel like it. I guess some people were saying "lol penises", but I was seeing people feeling their identities were being validated. People seeing that you can be proud of your identity as a queer person and being inspired to come out and make steps towards living their truths. Dan sharing his identity with people who could see themselves reflected in him was important and meaningful and people listened to what he said with open hearts. If he genuinely didn't mean to imply he was talking about penises anywhere in the video (I know, I know, of course he did but let's just hypothesise for a moment), then the kind, responsible, thoughtful thing to do would be nothing. Just let it go, because "not that there's anything wrong with it, but just let me pull out my carefully prepared evidence" implies there really is something wrong with it. I'm disappointed in him.

@aifos I loved your post btw.

While I do agree that in general he has a responsibility towards his audience, imo he's not out there to be a representation for anyone, and it's not fair to hold that up to him. He didn't make a huge coming out video and then was like "no haha just a joke". He made a comment in a video that was originally about something else, and afterwards felt obviously uncomfortable about the attention it got. I think we shouldn't forget that he is a person after all, and that he is still trying to figure out how much to share, and how to find a good balance.

[greenergrass]

For me the depression vid was a sad confirmation that in the end, Dan isn't just pretending and being relatable, he is a youtuber documenting his mental health journey through different crises and actually stuck. And christ, I've been following him for some time, and for a while I've now been feeling like I've got my life kinda together and can be happy ...and he's got a second quarter life crisis, while having the money to hire the best professional help he ever needs.

I think this is a bit unfair. I'm glad you're doing better, but you can't really compare yourself like that to other people. I also brought up his mental health in a previous comment (mods, let me know if this discussion is too far), and I honestly do think he's not really in a great place right now - based on both what he's told us, and his behaviour. Like I said earlier, it's not an excuse for anything - but you also can't fault him for having his own struggles (you can fault him for his actual behaviour, which is what a lot of the discussion is about). He can have the best professional help available to him, but that doesn't mean he's a failure if it's not working. And obviously we don't know what's actually going on in his head (nor do we have the right to know everything). I just thought your post sounded a bit judgemental, but sorry if that's not what you intended.

You're right, that sounded a bit judgemental. I purposely tried to avoid that because I know that everyone has different struggles, but as I left that last comment unexplained and without disclaimers, it totally can come across as me complaining about him (and add compulsory "English isn't my first language").
I meant the "im doing well and dan still isnt?!!!" comment purely as my internal reaction, and while the post was kinda patronizing (even tho I was trying to make it as un-patronizing as possible when commenting on a youtuber's mental health on a public forum (btw @ mods sorry if i was going too far with it, i tried to only base my comments on things he's said out loud without making assumptions, and the purpose of the post was to voice my reaction, not analyze him)), the last part is in smaller font to set it apart from the other parts of the post. Shouldn't try to do that on a forum especially when talking about a sensitive topic, I apologize! If I could edit the post now I would add something like "After I watched his newest video, I was internally thinking"..."even tho I know you can't compare people's journeys, but it just feels weird because i look up to him."
I tried to write the whole post in as loving tone as possible, but yeah, not that good in English yet. The message I'm trying to get across is "live show made me frustrated bc it reminds me of my past self (& my irl friend) and that makes me want to shout advice at him, but I aknowledge that it is because he isn't doing well atm and i hope he gets back on track soon" if that helps.

Thanks for clarifying! I hope I didn't make you feel too bad about the post., and that it didn't come across like I was attacking you or anything. It was just that one small part that stuck out and rubbed me the wrong way, but I totally get what you meant now. Thanks for replying and keeping everything chill in your response

[lila23]

Hello everybody!
First time posting, but been lurking here for more than a year as I really enjoy reading you all.

If I post today it's because I'm sad. I'm sad watching lots of people being really upset.

After the liveshow I was myself a little bit upset after what he said about the "d... joke", but I understood it was typical nervous Dan trying to disminish the impact of what he said about himself in his video. His over explaining was completly unnecessary and it's a pity he felt the need to do it. The rest of the liveshow was interesting to me and enjoyable .

And then I began to read the reactions and boy, it's hard! I understand people being upset, because we all thought he was being more confortable and clearly it's not the case yet. But across all the platforms reading things like "he is being manipulative", "he is a bad role model", "he betrayed queer people"... etc, well it affects my mood more than I would want.
So I'm sad for the people feeling that way, and I'm sad for Dan too. I'm pretty sure he never intended to harm anyone.
It's not the first time we have "phandom drama" and probably not the last, so it's going to be OK!

fancybum and loonyradish, I agree completely.

[kay]

I gotta say the hiring an editor/camera guy thing didn’t really make him seem lazy to me but if anything - insecure.

I think whatever crisis he has in his head means that he wonders if maybe people (whoever he means - fans? Media?) would treat certain things as more serious if the production was higher quality.

Besides coming from the film industry myself - it’s easy to say they should improve their skills, but that can NEVER replace a crew of people who do one of those things specifically for living.

Doesn’t mean I want him to do it - I love what they manage to do themselves and the imperfection of it.
But I think it’s difficult to judge if it comes from a place of insecurity.
I can imagine especially in a world surrounded by peers who do exactly that.

this is 100% what came to mind when i heard this comment about hiring a third party crew. not that he's trying to sidestep responsibilities but that he's insecure of his product quality and hopes that if there's another set or two of "professional" eyes on it that he'd avoid things like this (having his message misinterpreted) in the future. admittedly i didn't actually hear this, i just read a transcript so i'm not accounting for tone -- but after just reading it and seeing everyone's comments i don't think my heart will ever be strong enough to watch this ls in its entirety so. yeah.

of course, i also believe that's a load of waffle because i think he knew exactly what he was doing when he included mentions of sex in a main channel video, he's just upset that we took it a step further and interpreted it in the way that we did.

but this idea of an outside crew (and solo merch, if i'm being honest with myself) is what makes me more sad and anxious than even the backtracking/"clarifying" of the video's message. like i'm seeing many of you say, i enjoy the DIY, fully-contained way they shoot their videos with each other. i enjoy seeing them interact on camera, off-camera on twitter, and in their liveshows either in joints or popping in or just even in mentions. i feel with the addition of a crew, even (and maybe especially) if it's just dan who does this, this bit of personalization will be lost. dan will get his crew and his videos will take a different turn than phil's, phil will either stay the same or get his own crew and merch and they'll be even more divided. and that's the underlying thing that makes me most sad. that we'll lose this connection we have with them.

but, perhaps that's the goal.

i'm crystal balling here and that's a byproduct of my anxiety, and i could eat my words and none of this could happen. but i'm just. shocked, really. 2018 felt like it was going so well and now i feel like i've been slapped on the hand for getting comfortable. massive reality check.

edited to include:

Honestly the more I reflect on all of this the more I just feel sad for Dan. He comes across as someone who is struggling and unhappy (but then sometimes in gaming vids he seems very content so idk tbh).

I've also been feeling that something is coming after the tour. I'm not talking a #phandivorce or whatever nonsense but I could almost see Phil wanting to take a different direction in his career (away from youtube - starting with less liveshows) and it's throwing Dan for a loop and making him question what he wants to do as more of a solo act professionally (hence the talk of editors, camerman, solo merch). In his video he even talks about not being able to make up his mind, going back to uni or killing it on youtube, etc and I know from being depressed myself that it's sometimes really hard to maintain any motivation to actually stick with something. Which I could see a big change like this being a lot harder on Dan than Phil. This is all wild speculation but my imagination is great at running free.

agreed. it wouldn't surprise me if we heard that phil eventually wants to do something else, and dan wants to stick around and that's what's created this sort of trichotomy of choices in his mind of "something meaningful"/yt/uni and turned upside down what he thought his future might hold.

[lemon something]

@loonyradish I'm not forgetting Dan's a person at all, I just think when you're dealing with sensitive subjects you should carefully consider what you're willing to share before you make your video and stand by that decision. Not to do so is reckless. I feel desperately sad for the people I've seen today who have been left feeling upset and invalidated completely unnecessarily.

I'm not saying Dan has a duty to act as a role model. I'm just saying it's inevitable that some queer members of his audience will relate to him if he indicates he's queer and assuming he's a decent person, that brings some minimal responsibilities not to make them feel like shit for believing him or for being queer themselves. Also we have to remember the context - it was a serious, personal, self-help style video, not a big joke. It doesn't seem fair to expect people to take it seriously, then suggest they are wrong for having a personal reaction.

[SHITiveHITtheFANdom]

(Let me edit this beforehand and say that I'm not trying to attack anyone on here personally; these are just my general thoughts I'm voicing from everything I've read on here, tumblr, and Twitter!! For the most part I really enjoy being a part of this community because I actually feel a part of a community for once and I don't really have any friends in real life so please don't hate me; I really like you lot! )

I have a lot to say, and it's frustrating because it's half midnight and I can barely express myself coherently at the best of times, but regarding the 'dickcourse':

perhaps cut the man some fucking slack? You're upset because he, what? Tried to brush off the ridiculous amount of Phandom drama of OMG Dan SUCCS COCKkk (I'm looking at you, Tumblr) by reiterating in the liveshow the message that he was trying (with debated success) to get across in a video that his self-critical and perfectionist mind anxiously and seriously thought about for two weeks before deciding that, yeah, that was a good start, message, and direction for his channel for the new year in which he's really trying to better himself - really?

And then you wonder why he was acting anxious in the live show, which in my opinion was a lovely little escape, from my reality at least, for a moment to lightheartedly interact with his audience (which he in no means is obligated to do btw) and discuss pop culture, movies, games- things that he's interested in and feels like sharing with his audience.

And then of course I come on idb after, expecting a somewhat pleasant chat, and all I see are negative and harsh comments to the likes of - *eyeroll* "no homo" (God, I hate that phrase) Dan is showing his head again; *angry face* would the man just grow up and declare to the world his love of penises; *sobbing* my assumed/preferred sexual label for Dan has just fallen off again; *huff* just another typical privileged, pretentious white adult male spouting shallow philosophical drivel that anyone can find on Wikipedia... (yes, I exaggerate, hate me if you will.)

And perhaps I'm projecting too much of myself into the situation, and perhaps it's because my menstrual cycle is starting two days and I'm noticeably irritable, horny, and hungry today (ha! Just realised the irony of the opposite of that list), but: get over it. Dan doesn't owe it to me, you, his audience, or the world to say, do, or act in any particular matter (even as a professional social media influencer) - and certainly not about his sexual preferences (heaven knows we all know he's a furry... I jest).

Didn't we literally just have the discussion about boundaries and life in the public eye? (referencing the beautifully written post in the previous thread about 2012 vs now.) Fuck am I so glad I'm not famous or scrutinized for every thing I say/don't say/backtrack on because strangers are so wholly invested into my life!

I sympathize and empathize with Dan so much- among my many mental health problems, I have horrible depression that has left me basically bed bound for over two months. It is literally the biggest feat of energy to do even basic things like showering. On top of that, I've slowly realized over the past two years or so that I'm less than straight (which, coming from the ultra-conservative purity-driven religious background and upbringing of my youth - even after I rejected my entire culture basically and don't believe in the dogma anymore - Let me tell you, is monumentally huge). Oh and that's less than straight full stop - that's as far as I'm willing to label myself because first, I'm a complete virgin and find sex intimidating, and second, any label more than that is frankly terrifying - as if I haven't lost enough friends and family as it is.

So maybe I get upset when people assume Dan's sexual preferences. Here is what he has said about it recently: "WTF even is my sexuality?!" and "sexually ambiguous nerd" - which to me sounds like a label I would perhaps consider for myself if given more time. It sure sounds nice - stress free, without the emphasis being on how I like my genitals, because if that doesn't send me for an anxious panic whenever I start to stray from the heteronormativity of my youth...
Anyways, where was I going with this? I feel like I've lost the plot a little - so yeah to sum it up I guess: Perhaps he doesn't know, perhaps he doesn't care, perhaps it's none of your damn business, and perhaps Dan is worth more as an individual than people make him out to be and less than simply one half of a rainbow-riddled ship in a realtime fanfic.


(Am I being a complete hypocrite as someone who ships Dan and Phil? Yeah, totally. I think they would make a cute couple; I enjoy lightheartedly joking about conspiracies within the Phandom; and I read way too much fanfiction. But I also know how to separate my love of - Dan - and - Phil - and the funny/entertaining/wholesome content that brings little marshmallows of happiness into my life vs my love of Dan&Phil, the glorious platonic or not 'gay' ship that admittedly helps me get over the rigid and toxic societal views of my youth and normalizes love in all forms. So I like the dynamic of their personalities when smooshed together : shrug : if I read the same fanfictions about some friend to lover duo named George and Frank I can guarantee this sexually ambiguous nerd would still eat it up. I just want love to be normalized across literature/movies/pop culture in general without it being the focus... and now I've really rambled off and it's 2 am, so I think I'll end things here!)

[lila23]

I love your post SHITiveHITtheFANdom !

[alittledizzy]

perhaps cut the man some fucking slack? You're upset because he, what? Tried to brush off the ridiculous amount of Phandom drama of OMG Dan SUCCS COCKkk (I'm looking at you, Tumblr) by reiterating in the liveshow the message that he was trying (with debated success) to get across in a video that his self-critical and perfectionist mind anxiously and seriously thought about for two weeks before deciding that, yeah, that was a good start, message, and direction for his channel for the new year in which he's really trying to better himself - really?

But he didn't just try to brush off the fandom drama; to be honest, there wasn't much drama to begin with. There were a lot of people taking a positive message from it (which is on them, not Dan, but still: positive message), a lot of people being supportive of what they saw as Dan making a public stride he'd never made before and vocalizing that, and a lot of people positively relating what Dan did as an act of bravery and feeling inspired by it. I guess let me also clarify here that I am not one of those people. Dan is not my role model and I'm not following in his footsteps for anything. But it's frustrating and disappointing to see him so callously cut all of that down with his tone of acting like we were just being silly little gooses for misunderstanding him.

And perhaps I'm projecting too much of myself into the situation, and perhaps it's because my menstrual cycle is starting two days and I'm noticeably irritable, horny, and hungry today (ha! Just realised the irony of the opposite of that list), but: get over it. Dan doesn't owe it to me, you, his audience, or the world to say, do, or act in any particular matter (even as a professional social media influencer) - and certainly not about his sexual preferences (heaven knows we all know he's a furry... I jest).

I haven't seen anyone, anywhere say that Dan owes it to them to "say, do, or act in any particular manner". What I do see people saying is that Dan owes it to people to not "say, do, or act in any particular manner" one day and then two days later act offended and annoyed that people thought he was acting that way... when he clearly was. None of us put those words in Dan's mouth in his video. None of us were sitting beside him in the editing room. None of us watched the video back before posting it life. Dan chose his words, Dan chose his language, Dan chose to put that message out there. And then Dan chose a few days later to act like he didn't do that. Is this a bigger deal than it needs to be? Yeah, probably. But a whole lot of people I see out there feel hurt and upset by it, and they're allowed that. People were happy for him and proud of him and Dan just slapped them all on the wrist for it. Dan's words have meaning and they have impact on a lot of people. He knows that, obviously. The same way you're passionate right now about wanting to defend him, that instinct to react to what a public figure says can run both ways.

Didn't we literally just have the discussion about boundaries and life in the public eye? (referencing the beautifully written post in the previous thread about 2012 vs now.) Fuck am I so glad I'm not famous or scrutinized for every thing I say/don't say/backtrack on because strangers are so wholly invested into my life!

Again, this is not a situation where fans are demanding action out of nowhere. This is reaction, this is response to something Dan put into a main channel video all on his own then decided to walk back all on his own. He's allowed to do that, of course. And people are allowed to react to it.

The same way a month ago people wanted their right to be mad about no liveshows - I disagreed, but I never said people didn't have the right to feel that way. Now everyone on the other side of the fence gets to accept that you can't control the temperature of fandom even when you personally don't feel invested in what other people are upset about.

So maybe I get upset when people assume Dan's sexual preferences. Here is what he has said about it recently: "WTF even is my sexuality?!" and "sexually ambiguous nerd" - which to me sounds like a label I would perhaps consider for myself if given more time. It sure sounds nice - stress free, without the emphasis being on how I like my genitals, because if that doesn't send me for an anxious panic whenever I start to stray from the heteronormativity of my youth...
Anyways, where was I going with this? I feel like I've lost the plot a little - so yeah to sum it up I guess: Perhaps he doesn't know, perhaps he doesn't care, perhaps it's none of your damn business, and perhaps Dan is worth more as an individual than people make him out to be and less than simply one half of a rainbow-riddled ship in a realtime fanfic.

I don't see many people relating this to his sexuality and I don't see many people relating it back to Dan and Phil's relationship so I'm not sure why the random jab at fanfic there. No one is negating Dan's worth as an individual, either. I'm not even sure how that plays into the rest of your post. In fact, I've barely even seen Phil's name mentioned in this whole discourse (as specific to the video moment), proving that people are very capable of segmenting Dan and Phil apart from each other and reacting on an individual basis to things like this. You're not giving fandom enough credit, or else you're following the wrong people on social media. People are upset about how Dan talks down to his audience and that he's giving very mixed signals which in turn make people very unsure how he wants us to react or what it's actually okay to be proud/happy about and what Dan will be secretly mad if we take as a positive sign.

Honestly the more I reflect on all of this the more I just feel sad for Dan. He comes across as someone who is struggling and unhappy (but then sometimes in gaming vids he seems very content so idk tbh).

I've also been feeling that something is coming after the tour. I'm not talking a #phandivorce or whatever nonsense but I could almost see Phil wanting to take a different direction in his career (away from youtube - starting with less liveshows) and it's throwing Dan for a loop and making him question what he wants to do as more of a solo act professionally (hence the talk of editors, camerman, solo merch). In his video he even talks about not being able to make up his mind, going back to uni or killing it on youtube, etc and I know from being depressed myself that it's sometimes really hard to maintain any motivation to actually stick with something. Which I could see a big change like this being a lot harder on Dan than Phil. This is all wild speculation but my imagination is great at running free.

agreed. it wouldn't surprise me if we heard that phil eventually wants to do something else, and dan wants to stick around and that's what's created this sort of trichotomy of choices in his mind of "something meaningful"/yt/uni and turned upside down what he thought his future might hold.

I don't see that vibe at all and I'm struggling to understand where "I might have dinof merch soon" results in a professional parting of ways. They had individual merch before the first tour, this isn't a new concept. Dan said in the video they wanted to do this in 2016 and just procrastinated. It makes absolutely perfect sense to me that they'd consider an added revenue stream that's totally risk free. The own the merch company, they have complete creative control, the manufacturing is already in place and a well oiled machine. Why on earth wouldn't they make sure they're offering something to any buyer who clicks on the shop, be it a Phil fan or a Dan fan? And from an aesthetic perspective Dan and Phil just have very different styles, I'm sure it's been a struggle in the past to settle on product designs that they both felt like represented them.

As far as the professional editing: let's be real, if that does happen then it's not happening until next year. And if Dan tries to outsource editing while they're on tour, what's the worst outcome? We actually get videos from Dan while they're traveling? I'd pretty much written off dinof for the year anyway.

Just jumping into the speculation, but if either of them were going to quit youtube I would think it would be Dan not Phil anyway. Phil's the one that consistently enjoys videos and doesn't seem to find any major emotional drain in the content creation process. I think Phil could merrily keep putting out 5-7 videos a month (gaming + AP) indefinitely and still have plenty of time and energy for side projects. It's Dan that I think would struggle to do anything else solo in addition to youtube. He either needs the constant grounding force of someone else holding him to expectation that understands how to work with him, or I think he'd just... endlessly think himself in circles around whatever he wanted to do. Anyway my tl;dr is that I don't see any sign of a professional split in the next 2-3 years and I only put that time frame on it because I'm cloudy on whether youtube will even function as a platform past that.

[Puffy]

I’m really tired and barely able to see cause of a migraine so can’t block quote some of the stuff I want to say, but I mostly agree with eveverything that’s been said. I think most of the backlash is not about the joke but Dan’s need to backtrack and how patronising that felt, though I think most people understand that that’s anxiety. It doesn’t really excuse it but it does explain it. A lot of the LGBTQ+ fans are upset (including me, a bit) just cause I watched that video and felt like yeah, acceptance is great! I also am a bit weirded out by his reaction to people’s reaction to Antoni messaging him... Queer Eye is amazing and about acceptance and I wonder (purely speculation) if someone from a show that is purely about acceptance freaked him out?

A second speculation that someone mentioned above is the use of “myselves”. He did mention phil a bit throughout the video but I felt on some level that he was trying to avoid saying things about him. There was one part where he was like “there’s a phil video happening this week” on his list of things he was doing, and then it felt like he abruptly changed tack. He was potentially trying so hard not to say “we film everything ourselves” that he just kept saying myselves. I thought maybe he’d misspoken but he said it more than once and didn’t seem to notice. I know that’s a weird thing to pick out of the whole video but it struck me as odd and cemented my (personal) opinion that he was incredibly anxious and trying to get it over with.

Another thought I had about the whole thing was that it seems like he does shit like this — posts a risky video and then checks and checks comments to see what people say and then forces himself to do damage limitation in a liveshow. He does it after every video where there is some sort of allusion to sexuality or where people think there is excessive Phan content or whatever it is, he seems genuinely frightened. Phil is much better at handling things but I do wonder if the whole 2012 video thing has caused ongoing anxiety about public opinion. It would’ve affected them both in more ways than one, and maybe controlling what people think or say is an anxiety-driven need to feel like people aren’t judging him or expecting him to be something he doesn’t feel he is. Or maybe I’m pathologising something that doesn’t need to be, but it does seem that way. Basically, along with everyone else I think he’s really struggling at the moment. People’s upset is justified and being disappointed that he keeps repeating the behaviour is justified and valid but it’s kind of a mess and I wish there was a way to talk to him about it

[anonymousdork]

I don't blame him for panicking and I don't hold it against him if he felt overwhelmed and like he went too far. But I just really hate the patronizing tone he takes when he wants to talk something back and how he tries to obfuscate the entire issue and make it seem like it was all fans misinterpreting, because that's what makes for the awkward/uncomfortable fandom atmosphere where people feel guilty or shamed about something they previously had very happy or proud reactions to.

Sigh. This is just how I feel, too.

I know that there are some YouTubers, and entertainers in general, who we can expect to be very open with their lives, don't seem have a huge separation between their public self and their personal lives, etc., and we all know that D&P are not those people. And generally I've been fine with it and understood and respected it. It would be great to feel like there were fewer walls up, sure, but I get it. But it really feels lousy to feel like we, as an audience, are getting a version of Dan with a few of the filters removed, and to get excited about what's to come, etc., only to have that essentially revoked with a "omg I realized after I posted it that it sounded like I was talking about dick!" comment in a LS.

Honestly it makes me want to check out for a little bit. As I get older I'm prioritizing genuineness, authenticity, and openness more in all of the media I consume (and my personal relationships). I've generally been happy to just enjoy D&P on a different level, and I'm sure I will feel that way again in the future too, but to feel like we're entering a more authentic time and then have that revoked a bit has made me want to step back just a bit for now.

This is what was bothering me! Thanks for putting it into words.

Honestly, I would have been fine with him just not mentioning it. But the whole 'lol you're overreacting' thing patronizing people for putting the very obvious messages he was aware that he was sending out together - it really warms my biscuits if you know what I mean. It sort of gives me that same sort of feeling as when guys call women crazy. I know it's not quite the same thing, but it's a similar idea. Ugh, Dan, sweetie. I love you but you're killing me here.

Edit: I just read over the stuff about additional production help. Please, God, no. I can very, very easily see all of the wonderful 'Dan and Phil' soul being sucked out of their videos with some detatched professional production, ughhhh. That for me would signal the beginning of the end. Sorry for the pessimism, but I'm tired and cranky - I'm done with the internet for today!

[Phantasy]

I’m gonna be ultra cynical here and say that Dan not only knew full well how the audience was going to interpret “something”, but he also knew his redefining of the comment in the live show (supported with handy-dandy evidence of alternate phrasing) was going to stir us into a frenzy. So not only is he being patronizing, he’s just being a dick (or is it ass?).

I think he has a want and need to show himself to be more clever than his audience and he refuses to be labeled, because that is fundamentally beyond “society comprehension”. So he gives the audience what they want, but then reels it back in to show that he’s the one in control of the narrative.

Furthermore, we know Phil reviews all his videos, and for all his outwardly innocence we all have seen that there is barely a double entendre or innuendo that escapes Phil, so for BOTH of them to miss an obvious dick reference is just preposterous. What is perplexing as well is he was only qualifying his end-of-the-video quip, and not the earlier one it was clearly referencing—so does that mean the “stuff coming in and out of my mouth” was referring to “ass” as well? Clearly the fuck not.

Part of me does want to believe that Dan wants to live a more authentic truth, but I think also that he doesn’t trust his audience to understand the meaning of “his truth” unless he spoon feeds it to us in excruciating detail. Which also leads me to believe for all his platitudes of (seemingly) not wanting to label himself or make any sort of direct allusion to coming out, I think some of his backpedaling with this video was because it’s getting a little too close of a straight-forward omission that Dan likes the D, and that he is (after all the grandstanding to the contrary) wanting to make a coming out video someday on his terms and by his definitions so we do fuck it up by simply attaching some out of the box label on him.

On a side note, with all of Dan’s posturing and tortured artist routine, I hope Phil just one Day is like “Hey guys! I’m bi/gay! But, I guess most of you already knew that... anyways, for this video I thought it would be cool to draw my audience part 2! ...”

[RiriPandaHeart2]

I don't think I'll be watching the liveshow from the reactions on my tl and the things I've read here on IDB, I think I'll just feel down than I currently am.

Though I haven't been as active in the Phandom (I'm slightly focusing more on my 2 Kpop ult groups due to concerts and enlistment schedules and a wedding), I do still watch Dip & Pip's videos and I felt happy for Dan after watching that latest video. It was too waffly and circuitous to my taste (and I have the tendency to do that too so I do understand why Dan does that), but I felt like it was his way of trying to show a more genuine side to him. Imo the d*ck joke made the video more interesting and funny. I could relate a lot to not knowing what the hell to do with my life, so without that "joke", the video would have just been anxiety-inducing to me, especially since I'm at a very important crossroads in my life that will determine my career path in the future. So besides appreciating the memes and jokes that resulted from the video, which resulted in me giggling a lot despite being literally drowned in a mountain of paperworks, I appreciated that insinuation because it made the video less "heavy" for me, which I felt at the start since I could relate a lot to the main message (and even the fact that there was no tangible conclusion to his waffling is something that reflects my thought process as well because I still couldn't fathom what would actually make me happy in the long run, and focusing on smaller achievable everyday goals and things that lift my mood up is important). So tldr, that main channel video left me with good positive vibes.

But then this ls happened, and I feel like I've been doused with cold water. If there's a side to Dan that I could come close to being really negative about, it's whenever he is condescending and/or patronising about his viewers. The Phandom jokes, trolls them, and exaggerates what they say, that's undeniable, but in a way, it's a culture that they fostered, Dan especially. But throughout that surface of around at least 95% well-meaning good-natured ribbing, the Phandom actually has almost infinite love and support for both of them. So whenever they do something that I feel makes their viewers feel less validated or guilted, if not deserved, I get taken aback by that action. I'm pretty obtuse when it comes to jokes, especially when i'm stressed, so it took me watching for the 2nd time to conclude that the joke was actually related to bjs , but it was really the logical conclusion to what he said in the video, so it's on him if people "misinterpreted" his intention. Also, with him being very controlling, and the video most likely also getting an okay from Phil, I really feel like they knew how it was going to be interpreted. And though there were lots of ,teasing and jokes about it, I don't think people just focused only on the "joke" itself rather than the "message" of the video. I've seen more people praising him for the content, and actually being inspired by him. So to hear about him backtracking makes me feel thoroughly disheartened and a betrayed.

I understand that it may come from a place of insecurity, depression and anxiety. And I sympathize with him on that. But I just hope he can find a way to quell his fears without making his audience feel bad, especially when the thing they're feeling bad about is something that's rooted on being supportive and wanting Dan to be happy.

On him getting an editor/cameraman, I really hope he wouldn't do that. His videos (and Phil's) have a certain charm because it's not overly produced. I fear that if they have editors to help them, that charm will be lost. It's more personal and relatable right now, and I feel like if it will push through, they'd be more like conventional celebrities, rather than the personality-based creators I really got into. I can't really articulate what I want to say about this topic, just that I really wish he wouldn't do it. But I'm just a viewer who has no way of letting Dan know this. But yeah, echoing what someone said about wishing Dan read this forum.

Anyway, don't know when I'll be back. But I missed IDB. Thanks for being a safe haven and a place I feel like I can go home to anytime.

[karma_yeah]

I think I'm on the other side of most people with the hiring out some of his work: I think it might be a good idea. If doing a video can be as overwhelming to him at it sounds like it is, I can see how being able to hire someone to do some of the work he doesn't enjoy doing could make the whole process easier. Also, it's nice to spread some of that sweet Youtube money around(I say as failed video editor, currently stuck doing inDesign work, instead). If he enjoys the writing and the performing, but only grudgingly does the camera work and setup, then sure, hire someone. Although, maybe it'll just give him more time to overthink everything, paralyzing him even more. (THAT I find relatable.)

Wayyyy late to the party, but just want to say that I appreciate your post and perspective. The older I get, the less I seem to like change. I haven't watched the show yet, but have read through 5 pages of posts, and when I read he was going to hire an editor, my gut reaction was very negative. I couldn't imagine them "feeling" like Dan videos if he wasn't doing the editing.

But reading your post made me look at it differently. I don't think he'd give up the final approval of every second of any video he put out, but to not be weighed down in the minutia could be very freeing for him. Maybe he could actually produce more content, so !

Re: his video and seeming to back away from his comments about sex and things going in and out of his mouth -- again, I haven't seen the LS, and have only read comments, but I appreciate the person who provided a transcript of what he said. It did sound very much like a big 'ole Dan-waffle, but for him to act surprised at the conclusion people cam too seems monumentally disingenuous! Particularly when he's talking about a video he made about the importance of being authentic! It just feels hippocritical to me.

On the other hand, he's just a human being, on a journey, and like all of us, sometimes it's 2 steps forward and 1 step back. He's a public figure, and navigating how much of your sexuality and personal life you want to share with the world would be daunting. Once you go there, it's not like you can put the genie back in the bottle very easily, so I'm trying to dial back my side-eye disappointment and remember that he isn't perfect and it's unrealistic to expect him to be.

[Marshmallow]

Hi. I'm new here. I've never posted before, and may not after this one, depends on my anxiety.

I've tried so hard over the years to not let people I have never met and don't know personally control my anxiety, but it's so damn hard. I'm the same age as Dan, and his depression video encouraged me to start exercising and get back on meds for the first time in years. I keep my phone background a picture of him in yellow for mental health. And yeah, I'm a non labeled not straight woman (with a horrible crush on Phil) so when Dan indicated he might not be straight in a video about living his truth (in and out of my mouth etc).....i felt like he was once again someone I could relate to.
But my anxiety got worse today because of the livestream. It felt very patronizing and odd to me. His video seemed so pointed, it seemed like he was making these 'jokes' about sex very purposefully. And for all the jokes they make how the Heck could he have missed that? He's a very smart man, for all his posturing and waffling.
I know how anxiety is and I'm just a stranger on the internet who has never met him, but that livestream was Dan anxiety city. My heart started to hurt during his livestream. He owes me nothing, I know that. Dan spends a lot of time overanalyzing and so do I, I get it. He's often so careful with his words, like in this livestream or the one where he talked about a forever home ("when a house is bought", vs "when I buy a home" or "we buy a home".)
I can never figure out if he's doing this to protect his sexuality or a relationship or if he's truly queerbaiting. I hope it isn't the latter, but at this point I'm not sure it's my business to know?
And god I couldn't handle it if people were out there analyzing me to such a degree that they tried to analyze why I might emotionally want or need to give oral sex (and relating it to my depression) in a fanfiction. I read too much fic but that just seemed...a bit much. The constant analyzing is so much and I feel really bad for him even though I'm pretty disappointed that he had a video queued up and ready to be like "boy you guys got it wrong". Hell, even there he was careful with his language.

I dunno, I'm sorry for the hot mess of a first post, my anxiety about it all is running pretty high, and I gotta work on that.

Also, re: the editor etc stuff, I didn't finish the livestream because I was at a club meeting and couldn't, so I didn't see this bit. I don't see me finishing it now, lol. In any case I prefer YouTuber's who do their own editing and filming. It feels like something special they've made and released to the world and if it's professionally edited it feels not as special. I'm not sure a lot of people would be interested in watching professionally edited videos when he's not even uploading that often.

Seems like everyone is unsure about the future of Dan and Phil and I'm pretty sure that's not what Dan intended but it's happened and it's too stressful imo for something that should be fun.

TL;DR first post, anxiety city


Eta: please go nice on me if you disagree or respond or anything, I've had some online bullying recently and I would love some soft discourse.

[socksparadox]

I definitely think Dan should have skipped a liveshow this week. Between people still reeling after his most recent video, his obvious uncomfortable mood, and his awkward, confusing ramble about the sex joke, this liveshow just seemed to leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth.

I feel like Dan definitely doesn't know how to handle his own openness right now. I mean, he's kept a significant portion of his personal life out of the eyes of his audience for the most part of his career. It seems like he's finally getting the confidence and comfortableness to be more open with his audience, and nobody really knows how to react to it - Dan or his audience.

That being said, I do think it's clear that Dan is still figuring some things out in terms of his relationship with his audience and his own self. I hope the phandom isn't too hard on him about all this - and more importantly, I hope he isn't too hard on himself about all this.